RMR use on a G19 with NV - All sorts of questions

[Eurodriver]

I've read many of the threads on here about RMR use on handguns. The general consensus seems to be: "An RMR on your pistol slows your draw speed down considerably due to trying to find the dot. This can be mitigated with training, or, if the target is close enough, simply using the RMR window as a ghost ring to engage. An RMR dramatically increases your accuracy and range with a pistol, and the tradeoff it brings is worth the slower time from a draw."

Some may disagree with that broad overview, but that is the gist of what I got from many industry experts and vetted members of M4C from threads ranging from 2012-2014.

My situation:

I have a G19 with a Surefire X400 IRC (White Light, IR Laser & IR Illum) and an Octane 9 suppressor. This gun is used for killing armadillos, coyotes, and racoons, not ISIS kidnappers. I would like it to have capability for the latter, however.

The majority of my NV use will be with the laser. So, I will mainly be using this as a day optic. On the other hand, I still want NV compatibility for passive use and if the NV RMRs are not "durable", I will pass on the RMR deal as whole as I don't want any issues. Reliability/durability is #1 on my list.

Given that I've never used an RMR on a handgun, and I want this gun to shoot BGs as well, speed is also something to consider. I am having trouble understanding why there is a consistent concern among shooters regarding finding the dot. I currently have suppressor height sights on my Glock and they are only about 1/4" below where the dot would be on an RMR. I have no trouble finding them, and presume with an RMR I would simply find the sights and the dot would be right there. Is the time finding the dot significant, or are we talking 0.5secs with a shot timer? I can live with the slower draw time if it brings me all of the other benefits, but not if I will consciously struggle to find the dot every time I draw and after every shot. How is it shooting from unconventional positions?

To summarize, the only reason I don't have an RMR right now is my concern regarding durability of its use (it seems every thread has a "I had an RMR and it cut out on me every shot" poster) and finding the dot. Are these valid reasons?

I've been looking at the RM07 and using L&M for the milling. To my knowledge, the RM07 works with NV. Is it reliable?

Thoughts?

[BillBond]

L&M is a great choice for the milling.

If your RMR does not work it is due to one of two things.
One, it needs to return to Trijicon for repairs.
Two, there is a problem with the battery and its contacts which can be fixed by some properly applied electrical tape.


ETA: If you want to learn more about RMR's on Glocks than you ever will here, go to Warrior Talk.

[Skipper1969]

One Source Tactical offers milling of your factory slide as well.


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[maca1]

L and M milled my slides on 17 and 26. the work is perfect.

i can't recommend an RMR highly enough. speed is not an issue with training and back up irons.

as others have said...lots of good info at warrior talk forum.

[R0CKETMAN]

Whatcha gonna do when indoor / outdoor governs brightness?

[Eurodriver]

Whatcha gonna do when indoor / outdoor governs brightness?

I'm not sure what this means, but if it means what I think it does then I will either

A) Turn the RMR up
B) Use Irons

?

[R0CKETMAN]

I'm not sure what this means, but if it means what I think it does then I will either

A) Turn the RMR up
B) Use Irons

?

Just doesn't appear practical / desirable on a CC gun. Having to turn brightness up and down every time you go in or outdoors...transitioning to irons, ect

what am I missing?

[Eurodriver]

what am I missing?

This isn't a CC gun.

The gun would probably work, even with the RMR. But the suppressor would draw some attention. :cool:

[R0CKETMAN]

This isn't a CC gun.

My bad thought you were gonna slay "Isis kidnappers" :)

Well at least you have the sights already

for your reading pleasure

http://trex-arms.com/the-beginners-guide-to-pistol-reddots/

http://trex-arms.com/trijicon-rmr-versus-aimpoint-t1-for-pistols/

[sidewaysil80]

I'm in the reaearch stage as for an RMR pistol and your concerns are exactly that of my own. I won't be shooting the pistol for distance (night stand duty and occasional bowling pin match) so I'm wondering if there is any other real benefit aside from accuracy at greater distance.

Is the red dot faster/easier to track compared to irons when shooting say a plate rack for example? I would imagine so with follow up shots as you don't have to realign sights during recoil impulse just wait for dot to reappear.

Also, as far as milling I am leaning towards Atei. I know there is a debate regarding the importance of having bosses milled, but they are only like $10 more compared to other slide millig services so I figure its cheap insurance.

[HardToHandle]

As stated earlier, M4 may not have the deepest bench on RDS pistol handling.
Will say there is also a real value on RMR for off axis shooting, such as under cars. You have a slightly wider field of view to aim with a RMR.

I had a RMRed Glock... Now I do not. The return on the investment just wasn't there for me.

[turnburglar]

I have abit of time behind pvs14's and mounted them over my left eye. My right eye stayed adapted too darkness and could instantly be put behind my m68. You didn't say if you where running double or single tube, but if it's single I can't imagine how it would work trying to focus for the dot and still decently track a far away target.

[Eurodriver]

I have abit of time behind pvs14's and mounted them over my left eye. My right eye stayed adapted too darkness and could instantly be put behind my m68. You didn't say if you where running double or single tube, but if it's single I can't imagine how it would work trying to focus for the dot and still decently track a far away target.

It works the same as weapon mounting a 14 behind a T1. The dot is constantly in focus as you adjust the objective lens to focus the target

[GTF425]

Go with the RM06. With the brightness adjustment, you can make the dot "larger" and under NODs, you want as small of a dot as possible set as dim as necessary.

Just draw your pistol like normal and at the end of the presentation, the dot is there. So long as your draw stroke is squared away, it's not as big of a step as you might be thinking. I was hesitant at first for this exact reason, but found it to be a non-issue.

L&M are good to go. Mark's local to me and he's good people.

[yoni]

Mark of L&M is great people, you will not go wrong having him do the work. He also doesn't have a criminal record and he treats people with dignity unlike some other sources listed in the thread.

[punkey71]

Whatcha gonna do when indoor / outdoor governs brightness?
The RMR06 that is recommended is Auto brightness OR adjustable. Leave it on auto and dim or brighten it if you feel its necessary.

I turn it down for zeroing only. Otherwise its on auto.

The auto brightness changes in fractions of a second going from bright to dim environments.

[im.runandgun]

I have 3 RMR's and while they have not been trouble free, they do work well.

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[Dave_M]

Though lots of people can do the milling, to the best of my know the only companies recommended by Trijicon are ZEV and ATEi. ATEi fits the slide to specifically to your optic (there are some variances among RMR bodies)

I use an RMR01 because they reportedly break less. No issues with brightness levels not adjusting even in low/no light with an X300U. Probably you should go in knowing that you will, at some point, break your optic. Well, if you use it at least. There are several methods you can use regarding aiming without a dot

Regarding the first shot being slower? Depends. If you use the 'training wheels' (line up irons and then find dot) it will be. Not the case with other methods though, at least from my experience. Tracking moving targets and engaging at range is definitely faster.