View Full Version : Please recommend a compact defense scope for a Ruger Gunsight Scout carbine
I have this nice little bolt .308 carbine which I would like to use for defense and, possibly, for short-range hunting purposes. I'm planning to move the RDS over to an AR and replace it (on the Ruger Scout) with a compact scope.
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Rugers/P5250014.jpg (http://s397.photobucket.com/user/zmonki/media/Rugers/P5250014.jpg.html)
I don't envision this for long-range precision, just wanting a compact, moderately priced scope that would be suitable for near- to mid-range defense or hunting.
Please make recommendations as I have no idea where to begin. Variable power? Illuminated? What power range? Good quality, but moderate price?
Are you looking for something in the "scout" position, or are you going to use "regular" mounts?
If the former, then you need an extended eye relief scope... Basically, a handgun scope.
I'd be inclined to put a 1-6X LER scope on that rifle.
Thanks for the comments. I am so new to rifle scopes that I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of going with the "scout" position vs. "regular" position.
If someone could help me understand that a little more, I'd really appreciate it. Would one vs. the other be generally better for my application (primarily home/property defense, possible mid-range hunting)?
Thank you.
I am so new to rifle scopes that I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of going with the "scout" position vs. "regular" position.
How did you wind up with a "scout" rifle without knowing what that meant?
Scout position pro:
1. The scope is out of the way of the action.
2. You won't get hit by the eyepiece when the rifle recoils.
3. It's easier to aim with both eyes open... though really, I think that's a function of the typically low magnification of extended-eye-relief scopes, more than a function of the position.
Scout position con:
1. Putting a heavy optic out over the barrel will make the rifle front heavy.
2. Most magnfied optics only have 3-4 inches of eye relief. "Eye relief" is how far your eye should be from the eyepiece.
If you're too far from the scope, then it'll be like looking through a narrow black tunnel. So, you're severely limiting your options for a magnfied optic if you're committed to putting it in the "scout" position.
How did you wind up with a "scout" rifle without knowing what that meant?
Zimmer. Thanks for the information.
As for your initial question:
My intent for the rifle was primarily defensive, thus I bought the rifle for its compact maneuverability, light weight, and caliber. These elements made good sense to me, as a compliment to having an AR.
As for the "Scout" in the name, it seemed to me that the term "scout" meant that it was designed to be light and compact for easy maneuverability and carrying. I didn't know that the name "Scout" may have referred to a position/type of scope mounting. As I said, I am new to the world of rifle scopes. Perhaps I should have researched that before buying the rifle, but its mine now and I just need some information to help me make a decision as to how I want to scope it.
Scout position pro:
1. The scope is out of the way of the action.
2. You won't get hit by the eyepiece when the rifle recoils.
3. It's easier to aim with both eyes open... though really, I think that's a function of the typically low magnification of extended-eye-relief scopes, more than a function of the position.
Scout position con:
1. Putting a heavy optic out over the barrel will make the rifle front heavy.
2. Most magnfied optics only have 3-4 inches of eye relief. "Eye relief" is how far your eye should be from the eyepiece.
If you're too far from the scope, then it'll be like looking through a narrow black tunnel. So, you're severely limiting your options for a magnfied optic if you're committed to putting it in the "scout" position.
Good info, which leads to more questions, of course!
-What are your leanings when considering going with "scout" position vs. "regular" position.
-Would there be "scout" position scope models which would minimize the cons?
-Would there be "regular" position scopes which would not be a problem for the action and have enough eye relief to keep from hitting the shooter during recoil?
It seemed to me that the term "scout" meant that it was designed to be light and compact for easy maneuverability and carrying.
Google "Jeff Cooper Scout Rifle."
-What are your leanings when considering going with "scout" position vs. "regular" position.
-Would there be "scout" position scope models which would minimize the cons?
-Would there be "regular" position scopes which would not be a problem for the action and have enough eye relief to keep from hitting the shooter during recoil?
1. "Regular" for me.
2. Yes, minimize, but not eliminate. There are good reasons that the "regular" position is so common, and the "scout" position so rare.
3. Yes, just be aware that more eye relief is better, especially if you wear glasses.
Look around, I bet you're not the first one to want to convert a Ruger "Scout" to a regular scope configuration...
Burris Scout Scope.
I'd be inclined to put a 1-6X LER scope on that rifle.
Thanks, guys, I will look into those recommendations.
Google "Jeff Cooper Scout Rifle."
1. "Regular" for me.
2. Yes, minimize, but not eliminate. There are good reasons that the "regular" position is so common, and the "scout" position so rare.
3. Yes, just be aware that more eye relief is better, especially if you wear glasses.
Look around, I bet you're not the first one to want to convert a Ruger "Scout" to a regular scope configuration...
OK, thank you. It sounds like going with a regular scope set-up, having ample eye-relief, may be the best way to go and offer the most in terms of available scope designs.
Perhaps the Aimpoint H1 RDS that I have on the Scout at present would be a good choice to stick with, considering I am unlikely to be using the rifle at distances more than 150-200 yards?
Quoting from a lucky gunner article on Cooper's concept for Scout rifle:
Red dot/reflex sights, which weren’t available when Cooper came up with these criteria, are arguably faster than a scout scope, and have better low light performance. And a conventionally mounted low-power scope has most of the same advantages of the scout setup with fewer downsides. Since today’s variable powered scopes are far better than those available in the past, we shouldn’t limit a general purpose rifle to fixed power scopes, either. I think if Cooper could have seen a modern 1-4x scope with illuminated reticle in 1980, he would have appreciated the advantages it offers over what we now call the scout scope.
steyrman13
12-03-15, 14:09
The red dot is probably fine for those distances depending on your eyesight. I would recommend the Leupold Scout scope for the scout position or a Leupold 1.25-4/1.5-5/1-6 or 2-7 compact scope or a nightforce 2.5-10/Vortex PST 2.5-10 for a traditional mounted scope.
The red dot is probably fine for those distances depending on your eyesight. I would recommend the Leupold Scout scope for the scout position or a Leupold 1.25-4/1.5-5/1-6 or 2-7 compact scope or a nightforce 2.5-10/Vortex PST 2.5-10 for a traditional mounted scope.
Great.... thanks for the recommendations.
Should've caught this earlier-going to general bolt gun.
In my opinion, don't dick around with the scout scopes. Get a rail with back up iron, and mount a traditional low power variable with quick release Leupold or Warren rings. Sit around rubbing rubbing your piece in front of the fire with boiled linseed oil, reading by-gone books if you want otherwise.
In my opinion, don't dick around with the scout scopes. Get a rail with back up iron, and mount a traditional low power variable with quick release Leupold or Warren rings. Sit around rubbing rubbing your piece in front of the fire with boiled linseed oil, reading by-gone books if you want otherwise.
I have little sentimentality when it comes to firearms. (Aside from an affection for polished blued-steel with walnut furniture.)
The Ruger .308 Scout is a great carbine for midrange defensive use and I'm happy to have it set up with the H1 RDS that I presently have on it, or with a low-power variable scope, which frees up the H1 to move over to an AR-15 that would much benefit from having it.
https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/scopes/vx-2-riflescopes/vx-2-1-5-4x28mm-ier-scout-scope/
looks nice. I think the scout concept is really cool
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Mikill Drengr
12-06-15, 16:04
I once had a Leupold scout scope and loved it. I'm sure the Burris is a great option at a cheaper price point.
evolDiesel
12-08-15, 06:50
I've shot a Leupold scout scope on 45-70, and it was a match made in heaven. Good luck.
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Thanks for all the input. At this point, I'm vascillating between the Aimpoint RDS or going with the Leupold Scout.
Is there some consensus that the RDS serves well up to 100 yds., with the scope serving better at longer distances (200 yds or so)?
For a general purpose/ranch/extended survival application I'd probably go with the Scout scope. If you're comfortable shooting 100 yards with irons or no magnification offhand then zero the rifle at 250 yards. Why? Because it will appear to be only 100 yds looking thru the 2.5x optics.
Everything has limitations. Same with glass/optics.
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"One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."
1859sharps
12-09-15, 17:40
As for the "Scout" in the name, it seemed to me that the term "scout" meant that it was designed to be light and compact for easy maneuverability and carrying.
you would be correct
I didn't know that the name "Scout" may have referred to a position/type of scope mounting.
strictly speaking it does not.
The forward mounted scope is NOT a key characteristic of what makes a scout rifle a scout rifle. it however the favored position for mounting a scope on a scout rifle by Col Cooper.
while the traditional fixed low power scope works just fine as a forward mounted scope....I have a feeling the forward mounted red dot scope is a improvement. I need to test this out to say for sure, but given my experiences with red dot scopes and scout rifles to date I strongly suspect it to be the case. when I have money to spare to compare I fully plan to.
I have used both a scout-style optic and low-power variables like a 1x4-6. A good low power variable is VASTLY superior to a scout scope. The FOV is much better, they work great with both eyes open, and are much better for precision. A decent one also has 4 in of eye relief which is perfectly adequate for a 308.
Something like a Trijicon TR24 with the triangle post reticle will be just as fast as a RDS at short range with much improved >150 yd capability. Again, I have experimented at length with this, including timed trials.
YMMV.
1_click_off
12-19-15, 16:45
I have the SS scout with a Walnut stock. I shot it irons for awhile and then mounted my Eotech XPS2 on it. The Eotech just didn't allow a for a good cheek weld and I then purchased the Burris. The Burris feels cheap, it says it is tooless to adjust, but you better have a quarter with you. Sometimes I do not feel the clicks when adjusting it. It may be a feature of the long eye relief, but it appears to have a fish eye affect when glassing fields with it. It is undistorted at the center of the reticle. It holds a zero and I shot until it was too dark to see the other night. I believe I would have been able to see the reticle for the same timeframe/brightness I could identify a target. It is a good scope, just feels cheap. I also had to go to medium rings as the rear bell hit the picatinny rail with low mounts. So I am just out of a solid cheek weld, but better than the Eotech.
I will most likely jump ship and get the leupold. I have had a few of those and never disappoint.
evolDiesel
12-19-15, 20:34
So, I'm biased but I've seen a lot of guys (myself included) buy 17 different things for a weapon system in pursuit of perfection. You do it for a deal, a hand me down, what you read in a magazine or on a forum, etc.
If you have a scout application, just get a Leupold Scout scope. You'll spend a little more, but you'll make the right decision the first time.
The Leupold Scout scope works surprisingly well with the D-EVO too.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
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I decked-out my GSR in full Cooper fanboy fashion with a Leupold scout scope and Andy's leather Ching sling. Of course, there are other functional setups (I have them), but I like mine.
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I hope I'm not too late to the party.
I have the same rifle as the OP. I use it for hunting feral hogs in areas that have thick brush, and occasional shot opportunities out to 200 yards. Most of my hunting is dawn/dusk, also with some opportunities to shoot over lighted feeders at night, as well as "spotlighting" with green LED lights. Needless to say, the laws in Texas are very permissive when it comes to harvesting hogs.
All of this meant that I wanted a scope that provided good light gathering capability, an illuminated reticle, enough magnification to make it comfortable to shoot at 200, and be fast enough set at low magnification to make a 25 yard snap shoot easy. I looked at both scout type scopes to use the rail that comes on the rifle, as well as conventional scopes (because Ruger sells rings for conventional scope position on that rifle).
After weighing my options, I used the scout rail to mount a Leupold 1.5-5X33mm VX-R Scout scope. Leupold does a horrible job of marketing this scope - it doesn't even come up for me in a Google search when I put in "Leupold Scout Scope". I very much like the scope, but it does have two "cons". It has less eye relief then some other scout scopes, and it's also heavier than most scout scopes (they tend to be fixed power with a 28mm objective). I seem to recall that I used the Leupold "low" rings, and that allowed me to keep a very nice cheek weld and put the scope 1.5 inches over the bore....or at least it was close enough when I measured it to put that info into Strelok.
I found that if I mounted it fairly far to the rear on the factory rail of the Ruger, it gave me a nice forgiving eyebox. At 1.5X and with the illumination turned on, it's faster for me than irons. At 5X it works quite well at 200 yards. I've also found that even under fairly dense tree cover, the scope works well in dim lighting conditions. Obviously it won't be as forgiving of a poor cheek weld as a red dot, and will not be as fast - but I find that for most of the hunting distances where I take shots, it works well.
MountainRaven
02-02-16, 22:11
Perhaps the Aimpoint H1 RDS that I have on the Scout at present would be a good choice to stick with, considering I am unlikely to be using the rifle at distances more than 150-200 yards?
Quoting from a lucky gunner article on Cooper's concept for Scout rifle:
Red dot/reflex sights, which weren’t available when Cooper came up with these criteria, are arguably faster than a scout scope, and have better low light performance. And a conventionally mounted low-power scope has most of the same advantages of the scout setup with fewer downsides. Since today’s variable powered scopes are far better than those available in the past, we shouldn’t limit a general purpose rifle to fixed power scopes, either. I think if Cooper could have seen a modern 1-4x scope with illuminated reticle in 1980, he would have appreciated the advantages it offers over what we now call the scout scope.
Jeff Cooper's scout rifle bore a Leupold M8 Scout scope on it. The modern successor is the FX-II.
Red dot sights existed - but Col. Cooper:
A- Didn't trust scopes. Period. Hence the back up irons. Hence his repeated suggestion that one hunting in Africa (or any other sort of once-in-a-lifetime hunt) need only bring one rifle... but ought to bring at least one backup scope. His distrust of scopes extended so far that he believed it foolish to use a scope for hunting dangerous game in brush (as one might do with lion or buffalo).
B- Really, really didn't trust variable power scopes - and didn't see a point to extremely high powered scopes, what he called "moonscopes": As far as he was concerned, if you could see it, you could shoot it and more magnification wasn't a help (and as far as he was concerned, there was never any reason to take a shot passed 300 yards or meters: It doesn't happen for civilian/LE defensive use and if you're a hunter trying to take a shot passed 300, you're not a very good hunter). Not only are variable power scopes more fragile, they were, in his observation, always at the wrong power. And if you were going to keep it at just one power, what was the point?
C- Really didn't trust anything that ran on batteries.
(And he was what I would regard as an early civilian proponent of weapons lights - including on Scout rifles intended for defensive use... or hunting leopards).
I think a Trijicon Accupoint - or better yet ACOG - Scout scope (2.5x IER with fiber optic/tritium illuminated dot) would probably be the ultimate scout scope for the Colonel: He did seem to be a major proponent of what we might now call the Binden Aiming Concept.
In any event, I ran a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER Scout scope on my GSR and now run the same scope on my Steyr Scout. I haven't had any problems acquiring a sight picture in a rush with them - and it seems that if one is going to buy into the concept of a scout rifle, one ought to go all the way. At the very least, I would give the scout scope a try. If you end up not liking it or think you'd do better with a traditional scope, sell the scout and buy the traditional.
Pathfinder Ops
05-06-16, 13:13
Hi,
I know I'm late to this thread.
Good options mentioned above.
Mine came with the Burris 2.5 already mounted when I bought it new. But I am one of those who like a little more magnification. Getting old is kinda sucky. Anyway I put a Nikon Force XR 2.5-8x28 Extended Eye Relief with the BDC on mine.
I like it. It's in the forward position and has been a good choice. Currently hitting a 4" tgt at 200yds easily. For my usage/ need, that's more than sufficient.
Anyway. I thought I would just toss that idea out if anyone is looking at this still.
Another late joiner to this thread. I also have the new GSR with composite stock and stainless 16" barrel. I tried the 2.5 x scout scope and it was just not for me (great for 100 yards or so, but not what I wanted for 200 yards plus). I put a 2.5 x traditional scope on the rifle and was as good with it as I was with the scout scope, but wanted for more magnification (the reticle will cover up a clay pigeon at 200 yards). I even tried the 4x Leupold HAMR scope, but the cheek weld didn't work for me and it looked ridiculous on the gun. My local gun store had an AR set up with a Vortex Viper PST 1-4x 30mm tube that was just wonderful. At 1x, I could easily keep both eyes open and track targets outside the shop, and cranked to 4x could get good viewing at far away objects. The reticle is illuminated, TMR graduated and quite thin (hopefully thin enough not to obscure the clay pigeons I like to shoot). Anyway, I ordered one today for my GSR and will report back about it as soon as I get it set up.
The UPS truck arrived today! Vortex Viper PST 1-4 Illuminated TMR reticle.
This is not sighted in yet, but I have been looking through it all afternoon. Very crisp glass and the reticle is just what I wanted. Its heavy at 16 oz. (plus the heavy-ish Leupold quick-release-rings), but I love the sight picture. Range report to follow this weekend.
39435
39436
Just got back from sighting in the new scope for my Ruger Gunsite Scout. Oh boy, do I ever like this 1-4x scope. As I mention above, it is heavier than I wanted, but putting it in action tonight eliminated that as a non-issue. As the evening got darker at the range, the illuminated reticle was dramatic at 200 yards. Be sure to check one out.
39521
1_click_off
08-04-16, 06:30
Now drop a Spec-Tech trigger in it. So much better than stock.
dtconnelly
08-04-16, 09:43
Now drop a Spec-Tech trigger in it. So much better than stock.
Tried that. Rifle developed a mind of its own, decided to fire when I closed the bolt every now and then. Went back to stock trigger. Not quite as crisp, but doesn't go bang unexpectedly.
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Thanks for all the input. At this point, I'm vascillating between the Aimpoint RDS or going with the Leupold Scout.
Is there some consensus that the RDS serves well up to 100 yds., with the scope serving better at longer distances (200 yds or so)?
Any thoughts about adding a magnifier to the red dot? Wondering if that might give you the best of both worlds. I'm looking into the Howa Scout, so I'm glad you brought this topic up as I hope to be in the market for optics for it very soon and might go with a similar setup.
1_click_off
08-04-16, 21:15
Tried that. Rifle developed a mind of its own, decided to fire when I closed the bolt every now and then. Went back to stock trigger. Not quite as crisp, but doesn't go bang unexpectedly.
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Where did you have the spring tension set at? If it isn't adjusted with enough tension it will do exactly that. Try giving it a little more tension. Once I got above 2.5-3lbs pull it stopped firing upon closing the bolt.
I thought the same thing when I first dropped it in and had yet to compress the spring.
Where did you have the spring tension set at? If it isn't adjusted with enough tension it will do exactly that. Try giving it a little more tension. Once I got above 2.5-3lbs pull it stopped firing upon closing the bolt.
I thought the same thing when I first dropped it in and had yet to compress the spring.
I had the spring tension turned up just about as high as it would go....still had the problem. I have further interest in a trigger that decides when my rifle goes bang, so brand new stock Ruger parts have gone into the rifle and the Spec Tech parts have been thrown in the garbage.
1_click_off
08-05-16, 16:40
I had the spring tension turned up just about as high as it would go....still had the problem. I have further interest in a trigger that decides when my rifle goes bang, so brand new stock Ruger parts have gone into the rifle and the Spec Tech parts have been thrown in the garbage.
That is strange... You filed the sides of the pivot point down and the back of the trigger as described in the instructions? If there was too much friction in these areas, it would prevent the trigger from fully resetting due to the spring not being able to overcome this.
I am not questioning your abilities, I am just beginning to get concerned about the safety of my trigger if you did these things.
I could not get my trigger to seat into the action when I first got it. Had to file some areas down per the instructions. I was concerned I was getting carried away and then I compared the factory trigger again. The factory trigger fit so loose and sloppy I was not longer concerned about the material I removed from the Spec-Tech.
That is strange... You filed the sides of the pivot point down and the back of the trigger as described in the instructions? If there was too much friction in these areas, it would prevent the trigger from fully resetting due to the spring not being able to overcome this.
I am not questioning your abilities, I am just beginning to get concerned about the safety of my trigger if you did these things.
I could not get my trigger to seat into the action when I first got it. Had to file some areas down per the instructions. I was concerned I was getting carried away and then I compared the factory trigger again. The factory trigger fit so loose and sloppy I was not longer concerned about the material I removed from the Spec-Tech.
I filed the sides exactly as described in the Spec Tech installation instructions, and the trigger was operating beautifully. Crisp and creep-free, regardless of where I had it set to break. I ran it with a fair amount of tension on the spring as this is in a field/hunting rifle and I always seem to end up busting some bush or shooting from an imrpvised position when using it. I was utterly delighted with it, and thought the world of it. Then I went to Gunsite, and put 700 rounds through the rifle in 5 days. The Spec Tech trigger made it until lunchtime on the second day - I was running the bolt fairly fast on the rifle, and I had three separate times where the heel of my right hand was on the bolt knob and no part of my body was within two inches of the trigger guard, and the rifle fired as soon as it went into battery.
Once is happenstance, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action...so I took it straight to the gunsmith. He dropped in ta Ruger factory trigger for me, and I was back on the range with a safe rifle inside an hour.
1_click_off
08-05-16, 21:29
I filed the sides exactly as described in the Spec Tech installation instructions, and the trigger was operating beautifully. Crisp and creep-free, regardless of where I had it set to break. I ran it with a fair amount of tension on the spring as this is in a field/hunting rifle and I always seem to end up busting some bush or shooting from an imrpvised position when using it. I was utterly delighted with it, and thought the world of it. Then I went to Gunsite, and put 700 rounds through the rifle in 5 days. The Spec Tech trigger made it until lunchtime on the second day - I was running the bolt fairly fast on the rifle, and I had three separate times where the heel of my right hand was on the bolt knob and no part of my body was within two inches of the trigger guard, and the rifle fired as soon as it went into battery.
Once is happenstance, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action...so I took it straight to the gunsmith. He dropped in ta Ruger factory trigger for me, and I was back on the range with a safe rifle inside an hour.
Wow! Thanks for the input.
Now back to the regular scheduled program of the OP post.....
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