View Full Version : What is up with Noveske
Dose any one have good info on the company these days and the product quality.
They are good, consistent quality, with some interesting designs.
Beyond that, you're going to have to be more specific.
donlapalma
12-02-15, 12:52
There is a vast amount of information on this forum about Noveske. The search function works very well and I'm sure you will find any answer that you can think of. In short, they are a solid company and are known to make excellent rifles.
I have been shooting SCAR Light and the heavy for a couple of years. I am looking for a premium AR. I ran the a1s in the USMC in the 80s. I had a hand full of ARs through the years. Sold them except for a parts gun I built 25 years ago. I like KAC, Noveske, Larue, BCM. I had a LWRC IC sold it. The gun was reliable but grouped like crap. I want a light accurate AR. I am in the woods a lot so I pack it. So much product out there.
Kac is considered top of the line around here.
556BlackRifle
12-02-15, 13:32
Dose any one have good info on the company these days and the product quality.
I was afraid - still am to a certain extent that things would go downhill under the new management but, the quality seems to have remained very good. I'm not sure what the future holds but it's solid right now. IMO their Gen 3 rifles are very nice btw......
There billet rifles seem to be heavy just got a note back the gen 3 infidel is at 7.3 lbs. I like KAC My kid is beating them up in the USMC right now. I just was thinking about a more accurate barrel. Not sure how they shoot.
There is a vast amount of information on this forum about Noveske. The search function works very well and I'm sure you will find any answer that you can think of. In short, they are a solid company and are known to make excellent rifles.
Hmmm...that was then. This is now.
Most of the info is years old.
I have 2 Noveske's, 1 is a Gen 2 Project Ares I bought used and haven't shot that much. The other is a Gen 3 10.5 switch block rifle. The fit and finish on both rifles is superb as is the function. I've shot about 500 rounds out of each so far without any issue. Accuracy out of both rifles seems to be very good as well, here is a pic of 2 targets from the Project Ares, I have no doubt the SBR is just as capable
36305.
wilson1911
12-02-15, 14:55
If you want the best rifle, get the Kac. If you want one that shoots exceptionally well, is well made, and sexy as hell, get the Noveske. If you want neither of those and just a great rifle, get the BCM.
Personally, I can't justify the cost of a Noveske over a BCM.
If I wanted an uber cool rifle, KAC can be found for ~$1,500 if you look.
PatrioticDisorder
12-02-15, 15:57
Personally, I can't justify the cost of a Noveske over a BCM.
If I wanted an uber cool rifle, KAC can be found for ~$1,500 if you look.
Personal preference (my preference is KAC>>> Noveske as well, especially for the money), Noveske undoubtedly does many things right on their rifles. BCM doesn't even pin their gas blocks, Noveske does. Noveske uses a 5.56 Noveske chamber to help aid in accuracy(similar to .223 Wylde, different than 5.56 NATO), their barrels are without peer (probably what they are best known for), they use only quality components including 9310 bolt with tool steel extractor & cam pin and black nitrided (good but not as good as the E3) and don't forget about their switch block.
I definitely put Noveske a cut above BCM, maybe not worth the money to some, but no denying they build a hell of a rifle.
I want to know who is cutting Noveske's barrel threads, and who is cutting their metal (uppers/lowers). That is my #1 question, from my perspective on the QA/QC of Noveske, at present.
My #2 question, is...have they reduced their gas port sizes any, recently?
At present, I'm keeping my money in my pocket until the Hodge Mod 2 drops. See what that looks like in comparison, as it's supposed to be priced identically (nearly enough) to the Noveske, and seems to have a ton more features, and weigh almost a pound less. Of course, I like CHF instead of Stainless.
If you like Stainless, maybe give Arsenal Democracy a look. They had a big melt-down a while back, but the new owner is making it right, and a Shillen 416 4-groove hand-lapped barrel is pretty nice. RangerProof is another company hanging their hat on SS match-grade barrels.
I will say, the Noveskes are sexy looking rifles, and with their new NSR MLOK rail...I would really like answers to my #1 and #2 questions. They handled my factory SBR debacle in such a way that as a company, and personally, I'd give them my business again, depending on those answers.
I want to know who is cutting Noveske's barrel threads, and who is cutting their metal (uppers/lowers). That is my #1 question, from my perspective on the QA/QC of Noveske, at present.
My #2 question, is...have they reduced their gas port sizes any, recently?
At present, I'm keeping my money in my pocket until the Hodge Mod 2 drops. See what that looks like in comparison, as it's supposed to be priced identically (nearly enough) to the Noveske, and seems to have a ton more features, and weigh almost a pound less. Of course, I like CHF instead of Stainless.
If you like Stainless, maybe give Arsenal Democracy a look. They had a big melt-down a while back, but the new owner is making it right, and a Shillen 416 4-groove hand-lapped barrel is pretty nice. RangerProof is another company hanging their hat on SS match-grade barrels.
I will say, the Noveskes are sexy looking rifles, and with their new NSR MLOK rail...I would really like answers to my #1 and #2 questions. They handled my factory SBR debacle in such a way that as a company, and personally, I'd give them my business again, depending on those answers.
Them.
A new/ different company, which is why they look different.
A lot of things with Noveske are based around what you mean by "recent".
I posted this in another thread and I'll repost it here. I don't think they are bad rifles, I think they are however overpriced. To me a KAC SR15 Mod2 M-Lok is what I'd spend my money on. When you add up the parts, the Sr15 is actually a great value.
"Ultimately the Noveske guns are very simple and bring close to nothing new to the table. The stainless barrels are nice, the CHF ones are not unique. Noveske is a name with some non-forged receivers that look different. The Highest end Noveske can not justify a price over 2000$, but it is 3000$. Looking at their website acroos the board thier rifles are 600$ over the price of the competition.
Here is there M4A1 equivalent, for 2365$!. http://www.noveske.com/collections/r...ris2-handguard Same price point as the other rifles being talked about here. Its nothing other than a plain jane mil spec gun with a forged barrel and a RISII. I took a 800$ Colt 6720, and put a 400$ DD RIS II and 99$ B5 sopmod on it for a 1300$ gun that is shockingly similar. An ACT trigger, and Forged barrel do not justify 1065$ increase in price.
Conclusion- Noveske is a 600$ name for a underwhelming gun compared to todays current offerings."
IMO Noveske is not the same company since the founder died.
TheChunkNorris
12-03-15, 00:40
They're doing more things "in house" so they can avoid the "chainsaw" fiasco all over again. I personally have a lot of their parts on various ARs and like others have said there's great options out there like KAC, BCM, Colt and etc. There are some deals to be had out there right now, you can buy a LWRC M6-SL for less than $1100.00 and H&K MR556s are going for less than $3k.
They're bringing a lot of new stuff to the table, IMO. They have teased on their IG that they will be releasing a bolt gun soon, and bringing back the N6, plus the OAF collaboration (which I love but, isn't a huge deal). I think their gas ports are still large, compared to subjective felt recoil against my BCM. They are still a great option, and are up their with KAC, though KAC probably does give you more for the money. They are not an overpriced Colt. If you want light weight, you'll have to stick to their Gen I stuff. The Gen III is gorgeous, but not light.
They're bringing a lot of new stuff to the table, IMO. They have teased on their IG that they will be releasing a bolt gun soon, and bringing back the N6, plus the OAF collaboration (which I love but, isn't a huge deal). I think their gas ports are still large, compared to subjective felt recoil against my BCM. They are still a great option, and are up their with KAC, though KAC probably does give you more for the money. They are not an overpriced Colt. If you want light weight, you'll have to stick to their Gen I stuff. The Gen III is gorgeous, but not light.
The N6 has been teased at since it was discontinued.
EraThr3 beat them to the Gucci bolt gun, and took Noveske's sexy artist talent with them in the process.
Their nerdy idea guy went over to V7.
Who/what does Noveske have currently going for them? Kinsel is with BCM, now, so no more KM type "firsts" from him.
I guess, having owned several Noveske's myself, while they look sexy...what else are they? Mine were not any more accurate than my DDM4. They were both less reliable. They didn't have any less POI shift. They were overgassed suppressed, compared to my DDM4.
KAC offers innovative gas system, bolt, and true ambi lowers. BCM and Colt offer proven, lower-cost products. Hodge Defense offers a killer barrel, a cool new material and true ambi lowers.
Noveske offers...no ambi. No new gas system. 7075 and 6061 (Vltor). Weighs 0.75# more than the competition, roughly. Is admittedly over-gassed according to everyone who's shot one suppressed that I know.
Noveske DID have Keymod, and the NSR. But now there is the KMR, the Wedgelock, and other ultra-skinny rails. Everyone and their brother is offering standard FN barrels with various profiles and gas ports. Tons of others now offer "sexy", as well, with SanTan, Mega, Hodge, ADM, Fathom Arms, etc. producing "high end" upper/lowers. Theirs are Ambi, to boot!
But they are sexy! I grant that, agree with it, and will say it twice on Sunday.
So the question now becomes...is sexy and an arguably expired legacy worth $1K and nearly a full pound? Only the customer can answer that. So far, Noveske is keeping their doors open, so the customer must agree that right now, sexy is worth the coin.
Well they did acknowledge that the N6 is coming back. I really don't follow EraThr3, I can't imagine how you even pronounce that, not that it matters. You're definitely right though. My only issues with my first as far as reliability was when my gas rings broke, but that is a known wear point so not sure if it counts. They're definitely over gassed. My first one had pretty significant recoil and even my new one with a SiCo brake has more than my BCM w/ GF comp. But a lot of companies are offering quite a bit more now, especially for the money. Personally I want a Hodge Mod 2 and SR15. But my new Noveske really did have more to do with the brand and their collaboration than necessarily performance. I don't think I'll buy another, but I do still love the company.
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Eurodriver
12-03-15, 04:02
My Noveske is from 2011, but it is without question the most accurate gun I've ever shot.
I have a custom built, blueprinted Krieger barreled 700 in 308 that shoots 10rd 0.66MOA groups at 100 and 5rd 0.89 MOA groups at 500 yards. (Every single time)
My Noveske makes that gun look like a Mosin Nagant firing Combloc ammo.
Docsherm always said Noveskes are stupid accurate and I always thought he was a fanboy. But my Noveske literally puts every round out to 300 yards where the reticle is. It's scary.
Dionysusigma
12-03-15, 05:31
Personal preference (my preference is KAC>>> Noveske as well, especially for the money), Noveske undoubtedly does many things right on their rifles. BCM doesn't even pin their gas blocks, Noveske does. Noveske uses a 5.56 Noveske chamber to help aid in accuracy(similar to .223 Wylde, different than 5.56 NATO), their barrels are without peer (probably what they are best known for), they use only quality components including 9310 bolt with tool steel extractor & cam pin and black nitrided (good but not as good as the E3) and don't forget about their switch block.
I definitely put Noveske a cut above BCM, maybe not worth the money to some, but no denying they build a hell of a rifle.
:blink:
... what?
:blink:
... what?
BCM uses a set screw and loctite for their gas blocks. It apparently works well enough.
BCM uses a set screw and loctite for their gas blocks. It apparently works well enough.
Good enough, huh?
I'd rather have a pinned gas block.
Good enough, huh?
I'd rather have a pinned gas block.
I think if BCM's set screw gas blocks were problematic we would know about it by now.
Good enough, huh?
I'd rather have a pinned gas block.
Idk, that's from what people tell me. Also what SteveL said, if there was a problem we'd have heard by now.
I personally have Noveske and KAC rifles, and don't own BCM rifles. Not because of any perceived quality issue with BCM, but I like KAC rifles for a "duty" rifle and Noveske rifles for precision. Just personal preference, I have no doubt KMR-fitted BCM rifles are great for duty and their SS410 rifles great for precision.
Eurodriver
12-03-15, 08:58
I personally have Noveske and KAC rifles, and don't own BCM rifles.
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37500000/Dafuq-The-Dafuq-face-with-some-random-girl-random-37570705-488-471.jpg
The only parts Noveske offers that i actually want i own. I dont care for their full rifles, or other parts really.
I have the gen 2 lower and a 13.7" stainless barrel.
I am considering the Mlok NSR coming out though. Unless BCM makes an Mlok rail like the KMR
The only parts Noveske offers that i actually want i own. I dont care for their full rifles, or other parts really.
I have the gen 2 lower and a 13.7" stainless barrel.
I am considering the Mlok NSR coming out though. Unless BCM makes an Mlok rail like the KMR
Considering that the guy who developed keymod works for BCM I doubt we'll ever see anything Mlok from them.
I've been a Noveske user since 2009. I've owned a complete factory-built Noveske Recon rifle, and two factory-assembled Noveske lowers, and four (edit, actually five) uppers, the most recent one being a Gen I Recce N4 NQR.
Back in 08/09, there really wasn't any production rifle that came close to Noveske in terms of both function and (operative word here) fit/finish. Certainly there were a few rifles that functioned just as well, but Noveske had the aesthetics department mastered. You paid a pretty penny for it too, but you had the pride of knowing that it ran just as good as it looked. That was the big hype with Noveske, IMO - the looks and function were hand in hand. This was why you paid $1400-1800+ for a Noveske upper.
If there were any issues, regardless of whether it was fit, finish, or function, Noveske took care of it immediately, and almost always on their dime. I had one upper with QD sockets on the rail that had apparently not taken the finishing treatment correctly and they subsequently looked corroded/rusted. I hadn't noticed it until nearly two years after I had the upper. I called Noveske just to see if there was anything I could do on my end and they asked me to send it in. They sent me a shipping label. I didn't hear anything back for 2 weeks... and then a box showed up at my door. They had completely replaced the entire upper and apologized for issue - apparently my upper was from a batch of rails that had a problem with the anodizing process. I was floored.
My experience then was that they cared about their customers' experience and expectations as much as they did about how well their rifles ran. That was why you paid a premium - and, for many people, it was worth the price of admission. I was a fan from then on and ran Noveske rifles exclusively.
Fast forward a few years and, after John's death, it seems that they've slowly changed. Their rifles are still just-as expensive (if not more so) and they run pretty much the same way they always have. However, they seem that they've lost the enthusiastic customer service and support that they used to have. They still stand behind their products and support them, but they don't seem to have the above and beyond focus on customer experience. That change, however, is enough to make them lose to other competitors.
AR's have gotten better over the last 4-5 years and the offerings have become more robust. Other manufacturers have expanded their offerings and technology, and aesthetics have really evolved (especially with billet uppers/lowers becoming commonplace). With all of these changes, especially in regards to new designs/aesthetics, it becomes hard to justify Noveske on the fit/finish front, which was (in my opinion) one of their largest selling points.
Other manufacturers, like BCM, run just as well and have simply improved over the last few years, making them a more obvious value.
So, to answer the question, nothing is wrong with Noveske - their guns run as well as they always have. They look great too. However, they're not really the unicorns they once were and other manufacturers have caught up to them. I still love Noveske products, but I personally can't justify their cost in light of the above. I hope none of this comes across as a slight at Noveske, because it isn't. It's just my opinion and experience with them. If someone wanted a top of the line rifle, I'd mention Noveske - the only caveat is the unwarranted cost (again, in my opinion).
YMMV
On a related note, I think Geissele will be the next big thing if/once they start building complete rifles. Their customer service, attention to detail, and reasonably-justified pricing (at least judging by their current prices) would allow them to cater very much to the crowd the "old" Noveske appealed to.
donlapalma
12-03-15, 11:24
Fast forward a few years and, after John's death, it seems that they've slowly changed. Their rifles are still just-as expensive (if not more so) and they run pretty much the same way they always have. However, they seem that they've lost the enthusiastic customer service and support that they used to have. They still stand behind their products and support them, but they don't seem to have the above and beyond focus on customer experience. That change, however, is enough to make them lose to other competitors.
Skyyr - thanks for taking the time to type this out. I was curious to hear why the company is no longer the same in more specific detail.
http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/37500000/Dafuq-The-Dafuq-face-with-some-random-girl-random-37570705-488-471.jpg
I keep looking to get one... then end up buying more ammo instead. Or building my own.
I've been a Noveske user since 2009. I've owned a complete factory-built Noveske Recon rifle, and two factory-assembled Noveske lowers, and four (edit, actually five) uppers, the most recent one being a Gen I Recce N4 NQR.
Back in 08/09, there really wasn't any production rifle that came close to Noveske in terms of both function and (operative term here) fit/finish. Certainly there were a few rifles that functioned just as well, but Noveske had the aesthetics department mastered. You paid a pretty penny for it too, but you had the pride of knowing that it ran just as good as it looked. That was the big hype with Noveske, IMO - the looks and function were hand in hand. This was why you paid $1400-1800+ for a Noveske upper.
If there were any issues, regardless of whether it was fit, finish, or function, Noveske took care of it immediately, and almost always on their dime. I had one upper with QD sockets on the rail that had apparently not taken the finishing treatment correctly and they subsequently looked corroded/rusted. I hadn't noticed it until nearly two years after I had the upper. I called Noveske just to see if there was anything I could do on my end and they asked me to send it in. They sent me a shipping label. I didn't hear anything back for 2 weeks... and then a box showed up at my door. They had completely replaced the entire upper and apologized for issue - apparently my upper was from a batch of rails that had a problem with the anodizing process. I was floored.
My experience then was that they cared about their customers' experience and expectations as much as they did about how well their rifles ran. That was why you paid a premium - and, for many people, it was worth the price of admission. I was a fan from then on and ran Noveske rifles exclusively.
Fast forward a few years and, after John's death, it seems that they've slowly changed. Their rifles are still just-as expensive (if not more so) and they run pretty much the same way they always have. However, they seem that they've lost the enthusiastic customer service and support that they used to have. They still stand behind their products and support them, but they don't seem to have the above and beyond focus on customer experience. That change, however, is enough to make them lose to other competitors.
AR's have gotten better over the last 4-5 years and the offerings have become more robust. Other manufacturers have expanded their offerings and technology, and aesthetics have really evolved (especially with billet uppers/lowers becoming commonplace). With all of these changes, especially in regards to new designs/aesthetics, it becomes hard to justify Noveske on the fit/finish front, which was (in my opinion) one of their largest selling points.
Other manufacturers, like BCM, run just as well and have simply improved over the last few years, making them a more obvious value.
So, to answer the question, nothing is wrong with Noveske - their guns run as well as they always have. They look great too. However, they're not really the unicorns they once were and other manufacturers have caught up to them. I still love Noveske products, but I personally can't justify their cost in light of the above. I hope none of this comes across as a slight at Noveske, because it isn't. It's just my opinion and experience with them. If someone wanted a top of the line rifle, I'd mention Noveske - the only caveat is the unwarranted cost (again, in my opinion).
YMMV
On a related note, I think Geissele will be the next big thing if/once they start building complete rifles. Their customer service, attention to detail, and reasonably-justified pricing (at least judging by their current prices) would allow them to cater very much to the crowd the "old" Noveske appealed to.
Great post, thanks! My one and only Noveske, a N4 from 2007 has always run great and has never had anything that needed attention.
But I agree, with the advances of others, it gets harder and harder to justify the price.
Since John's passing I haven't really looked into Noveske much. I picked up a few things here and there but none were full factory builds. I'm really fond of my 2009 N4 from them when they engraved their logo split between the upper and lower. I agree as well. Time has shown that there are others on the market that are better without the price tag.
Thanks Great info. I really like the KAC. When I buy a rifle and it dose not shoot well I dump it. The SCARs I have, light and heavy shoot well. I am more concerned with consistency than 1 hole.
I have owned two complete uppers, a 18" SPR from 2005 and a 14.5" Afghan from after John died. Both are great. No difference.
What I do buy are their barrels. I do not own a single upper or lower that I have not assembled. I know enough to know what I want and how to properly put it together. I have a bunch..... I mean a BUNCH of their barrels. Of all my barrels I have 1 Colt 11.5" and 1 LMT 10.5" and then all Noveske barrels. Both SS and CHF. I have seen no difference since John died. They are still at the same level of excellence that they have even been. Are they Worth the money, yes but not for everyone.
The barrels are the Noveske product. That is the reason for the cost.
hoghunter84
12-03-15, 16:33
I don't know much about the barrels but I recently put together an AR pistol and I found the Noveske keymod hand guard to be nicer than the competition. I have a 15" BCM keymod hand guard and it is nice as well. I just think the Noveske went together a little better and feels nicer in the hand. I also have the Noveske flaming pig and I heard rumors that it is very hard to clean but after 600 rounds it came apart easily and didn't have much soot inside.
Noveske stainless barrels can have very impressive precision capabilities and run very well. I may not be inline with their gassing concept, but there's some ways around that.
Do I have Noveske barrels? Yep, I would say a more than a few.
Would I buy more Noveske barrels? Yes on that one.
Are Noveske barrels overpriced? Nope, they can fit a role very well without going to higher cost options.
Are Noveske barrels the best for a precision gun that runs well? It would be up there for a regular production product.
lahunter57
12-03-15, 16:55
Delete
andersenvincent7
12-03-15, 19:07
It seems like the quality may have taken a slight down turn due to the new management/Johns passing but from what I can tell they are still solid rifles.
I prefer Noveske for a number of parts, particularly their barrels, and I've seen no indication whatsoever - with heavy use - that quality could be declining.
So far as that rumor, then, it is as they say. That which can be asserted without evidence can just as easily be dismissed without evidence.
I found their quality lacking years before John passed. Their CS was always on part with other leading companies though, save the turmoil directly after his passing.
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