View Full Version : Please advise a good basic complete M4 that uses standard parts for the younguns
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 12:54
For a variety of reasons I want to purchase two base AR rifles that are functional out of the box, that use standard interchangeable parts, and that can be upgraded over time. Budget is ~$1,200 combined for both. I know these will be budget rifles that'll need staking, new bolts, buffers, etc. and that I'll most likely end up spending quite a bit more in the long run doing it this way as opposed to paying more to have them be tack driving SHTF rifles out of the box but for now, I'm just looking for the best base rifles I can get for the funds currently available. I have an RRA 1st Responder that's been upgraded a bit and would like the parts on the new ones to be interchangeable, so carbine length gas. These will initially be training rifles for the younguns and will eventually be customized depending on......well, alot. What would you suggest? There are quite a few players in the budget rifle market and frankly I have no idea of the ups and downs for any of them. I don't know the AR market and this is the best forum out there for it. Thanks in advance for your efforts.
p.s. My hands don't work so well and detailed assembly is not something I can really do at this time which is why I'm looking for complete rifles in lieu of assembling my own.
Update........ Sooooooooo,,,,,, I got a LE6920 MPS-B with the Magpul Slim Line furniture. After this thread, spending quite a bit of time reading on the forum and then fondling it at the lgs I spent the extra few bucks. I'm going to get get the Polish AKM Premium at Atlantic for the other. I love classic AKs and those are some of the best out there right now. Woo Hoo!
I'd look at s&w, stag, and palmetto state Armory.
The only parts that won't interchange between mid and carbine are standard or moe handgaurds, and gas tubes.
I would not upgrade them, I would keep them and Jr can buy a better one once he grows up and starts working. Any of the above should work fine out the box and if not, the companies will correct the issue.
Edit, I'd just get the m&p sport imo.
If you don't mind adding the handguards, stock, and trigger guard later, then you can get two Colt OEM rifles for $1360-1400. Add the accessories you want later as money allows.
Otherwise, get a Colt M4 MOE or a 6720. Anything cheaper is junk, IMO.
Why not just buy one Colt 6720 for $800 now and get the 2nd one when funds allow?
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Auto-X Fil
12-03-15, 13:30
I agree that it doesn't make sense to buy a $600 gun that will need a whole ton of parts, vs an $800 gun that is good to go.
I haven't read much about the Aero Precision turn key AC15 model (did I miss something?) but seems like bang for your buck at $699.
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 14:33
I'm looking to get the best of the bargain rifles for use for the two younguns now. Not one that they can share for a while. I've have quite a few smith and wesson handguns and was about to get the Sports when I was told by someone that they use a lot of proprietary parts. If that's not the case then I'll probably go that route since their customer service has been so good to me. I know I can purchase better rifles at a higher price point but that's not where I'm at right now.
I'm looking into the Aero, Palmetto, and Stag. Anyone else I should consider?
Aero is probably fine but when you can get colts under $800 I don't see the point.
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Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 14:57
Aero is probably fine but when you can get colts under $800 I don't see the point.
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My budget is $1,200 for two rifles not $1,600. Where are the Colts under $800?
I'm looking to get the best of the bargain rifles for use for the two younguns now. Not one that they can share for a while. I've have quite a few smith and wesson handguns and was about to get the Sports when I was told by someone that they use a lot of proprietary parts. If that's not the case then I'll probably go that route since their customer service has been so good to me. I know I can purchase better rifles at a higher price point but that's not where I'm at right now.
I'm looking into the Aero, Palmetto, and Stag. Anyone else I should consider?
How old are these kids? If you are teaching them why do they each need a rifle. You have a rifle. One rifle is probably the safest way to teach multiple students simultaneously.
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 15:18
That's fairly personal info there GH41. I'm aware of training techniques and the necessary equipment. Do you have any recommendations for a set of rifles?
My budget is $1,200 for two rifles not $1,600. Where are the Colts under $800?
Here are colts for under $800. You've been told what is the best reliable deal. If you have no more money just buy whatever you want and shoot on.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 15:33
Thanks for your input airhaz. I'm not a fan of the lightweight barrels.
So we're on S&W, Palmetto, Aero, and Stag.
My budget is $1,200 for two rifles not $1,600. Where are the Colts under $800?
G&R has Colts for $799.
You can buy Colt OEM1 and OEM2 rifles (no handguards or stock) for ~$700 from most places.
Strength of Arms -
Hopefully, this is an answer to your question.
Here is a PSA you may not have seen, it is a blem and doesn't have a rear sight, but it is under 600.00.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-16-m4-cmv-rifle-blem.html
I've built 7 AR's on PSA Lowers, some were 159.00 complete lowers, others were stripped with various LPK's used, all of them have worked.
For what I've gathered this one would probably suit your needs.
Good luck.
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 16:31
G&R? is that short for......?
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 16:33
Thank you 26_Inf.
I'm pretty sure I have a spare rear buis or two. PSA vs S&W Sport, which way would you go?
I'd get two M&P Sports if two 6920 OEM1's are out of the question (I'm not one to typically suggest something out of a person's budget if it's not critical, but two OEM1's and the concept that you or the kids can choose the furniture they want would be one sweet Christmas idea).
I have a Sport that's been good in 2k rounds, and I have no doubt you and the kids would be happy with them. The castle nut and gas key is adequately staked, the trigger is fantastic for a GI trigger (I think it's nitrided, it certainly looks and feels it), and it's reasonably lightweight. It'll deceive you, with the thin polymer handguards and furniture, you'd think it would be super light, but the barrel really adds weight. I think you'd do well to grab a pair.
Get your local gun store to order you a pair of LMT L7C2 complete lowers. Should be able to get the pair for $630 or less. You now have a top tier lower.
Then get one of the many PSA complete uppers, seen some around $300 each with BCG and CH
You can always upgrade the upper components later. But you will be stuck with a lesser lower will forever if you cheap out on a noname . (Hard to sell or trade)
If you were hell bent on going cheap, I'd prowl local stores. Clone ARs can be had in the $400 range used. IE: if willing to buy non-quality, then at least don't overpay.
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Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 16:57
I can do a few pins no prob, just dont want to complete build as manipulation of many small parts aggravates the hands and the pain doesn't stop for days. Looking into this Pinz. Thanks.
That's fairly personal info there GH41. I'm aware of training techniques and the necessary equipment. Do you have any recommendations for a set of rifles?
I don't understand the personal comment and I cannot recommend anything I have not owned. I have never owned a $600 rifle. I'm outa here.
If you aren't opposed to getting uppers and lowers separate, you could get 2 psa complete lowers, and 2 BCM uppers.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-14-5-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-m4-14.htm
14.5 pinned with a2x, and BCG/CH package, with plastic handgaurd, $573
http://palmettostatearmory.com/catalog/product/view/id/1213/
Psa classic lower, $150
Thats $722 per rifle
If you dont want to have a pinned muzzle device, look at these
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M4-16-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-m4-16.htm
BCM 16" carbine, with BCG/CH & free mod 0 comp, BCM plastic handgaurd, $528
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm
BCM 16" middy, with BCG/CH, and free mod 0 comp, $509, not including handgaurd
I can do a few pins no prob, just dont want to complete build as manipulation of many small parts aggravates the hands and the pain doesn't stop for days. Looking into this Pinz. Thanks.
http://www.lmtstore.com/lower-halves/defender-lower-with-collapsing-stock-and-standard-trigger.html
$346 MSRP. Dealer cost much less. My last one was $300+tax out the door. Get your dealer to do a twofer deal. LMT was very easy for my dealer to work with.
Also remember, LMT probably has more AR components and rifles in use by real mil than any except Colt, FN, and KAC. Certainly more than the other names you were chasing. :)
Just wish Colt would sell complete 6x20 lowers. But it would be more money, and the colt OEM options are close.
Thanks for your input airhaz. I'm not a fan of the lightweight barrels.
So we're on S&W, Palmetto, Aero, and Stag.
The trend here has gone to LW barrels, they perform as well as gov profile without the unnecessary weight.
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 18:01
The trend here has gone to LW barrels, they perform as well as gov profile without the unnecessary weight.
I thought they were inferior. Been researching since you recommended and I'm considering now Oem1 at buds under700 vs the 6720 at upper 700s. Didn't want to spend much over 1200 but......
Not to mention, nothing like gifting a colt firearm. They truly do hold value like no other.
I thought they were inferior. Been researching since you recommended and I'm considering now Oem1 at buds under700 vs the 6720 at upper 700s. Didn't want to spend much over 1200 but......
Good on you for researching, we see many here that did not.
Strength Of Arms
12-03-15, 18:44
I have an extensive collection of handguns and a few long in most categories but I'm fairly ignorant on AR types. I know this is the best forum for it so here I am. I know many people will go out and buy what looks good. I don't care (well not too much ;) about looks. It's about long term performance. I'm quite active on other forums under a different name but it was unfortunately taken here...... thefineline. I know noob posts asking about the best cheapest are major groaners eyerollers etc, but you gotta start somewhere right...!!!
Can't go wrong with Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, etc. If you are at all like me...as soon as you buy a cheap A/R you will wish that you hadn't. No offense...just friendly advice.
I have an extensive collection of handguns and a few long in most categories but I'm fairly ignorant on AR types. I know this is the best forum for it so here I am. I know many people will go out and buy what looks good. I don't care (well not too much ;) about looks. It's about long term performance. I'm quite active on other forums under a different name but it was unfortunately taken here...... thefineline. I know noob posts asking about the best cheapest are major groaners eyerollers etc, but you gotta start somewhere right...!!!
I know you have a budget but checkout this BCM ELW upper many of us have. The free float KMR handguard is one of the best on the market, the LW barrel is plenty accurate and an exceptional value with the free muzzle device and a BCG / GF charging handle for another $70. There are some good threads here with members shooting this upper out to 1k yards. It comes back in stock periodically as its popular. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-KeyMod-KMR15-p/bcm-urg-mid-16elw-kmr15.htm
Chatterbox
12-03-15, 20:38
I think any of the premium Palmetto State Armory rifles will fulfill your requirement. The ratio of cost to quality makes them the best match for rifles in your price range.
My budget is $1,200 for two rifles not $1,600. Where are the Colts under $800?
Sorry man, this is the wrong place to get a 600 dollar rifle recommended to you. If you want that crap, go over to ARFCOM. This site is geared toward people in harms way who use rifles as tools, not toys.
Sorry man, this is the wrong place to get a 600 dollar rifle recommended to you. If you want that crap, go over to ARFCOM. This site is geared toward people in harms way who use rifles as tools, not toys.
I second that. TOS will get there.
Nightstalker865
12-03-15, 23:01
If you can swing one of the Colt offerings go for it. If not, I've seen a couple places that have had the M&P Sports priced at $499 shipped over the past week.
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titsonritz
12-03-15, 23:12
I know you have a budget but checkout this BCM ELW upper many of us have. The free float KMR handguard is one of the best on the market, the LW barrel is plenty accurate and an exceptional value with the free muzzle device and a BCG / GF charging handle for another $70. There are some good threads here with members shooting this upper out to 1000k yards. It comes back in stock periodically as its popular. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-KeyMod-KMR15-p/bcm-urg-mid-16elw-kmr15.htm
1,000,000 yards?! That's badass. :jester:
titsonritz
12-03-15, 23:17
What about get one Colt or BCM and one M&P15-22?
1,000,000 yards?! That's badass. :jester:
Markm has a thread shooting those distances. I shoot the same upper but not as well as those boys.
1,000,000 yards?! That's badass. :jester:
No kidding, that is 568 miles, damn I'd hate to compute the coriolis effect on that one.
What about get one Colt or BCM and one M&P15-22?
I started to reply similar in jest: Give the eldest a 6720 as his birthright. Then get the younger the best you can afford from there. :-)
No kidding, that is 568 miles, damn I'd hate to compute the coriolis effect on that one.
Oops my mistake, although Markm is a legend around these parts.:rolleyes:
If you can swing one of the Colt offerings go for it. If not, I've seen a couple places that have had the M&P Sports priced at $499 shipped over the past week.
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That's a pretty dang good price for the Sport, where did you see that?
556BlackRifle
12-04-15, 11:37
No kidding, that is 568 miles, damn I'd hate to compute the coriolis effect on that one.
LOL... That made my morning!
OP look into the Ruger AR556 as well. It has some really nice parts on it for a budget rifle. Cold hammer forged barrel with 1/8 twist. Mil spec buffer tube, etc. worth looking into in my opinion. Ruger has great customer service as well.
Nightstalker865
12-04-15, 23:15
That's a pretty dang good price for the Sport, where did you see that?
Gunbuyer.com had them for $499 shipped. They are back up to $529 shipped currently.
KYGunCo had them for $503 shipped. They seem to have them pretty consistently priced under $550 shipped.
But yes, I was VERY tempted by the $499 price. I just don't have a need for one.
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Strength Of Arms
12-06-15, 00:17
Sooooooooo,,,,,, I got a LE6920 MPS-B with the Magpul Slim Line furniture. After spending quite a bit of time reading on the forum and then fondling it at the lgs I spent the extra few bucks. I'm going to get get the Polish AKM Premium at Atlantic for the other. I love classic AKs and those are some of the best out there right now. Woo Hoo!
Nightstalker865
12-06-15, 07:22
Sooooooooo,,,,,, I got a LE6920 MPS-B with the Magpul Slim Line furniture. After spending quite a bit of time reading on the forum and then fondling it at the lgs I spent the extra few bucks. I'm going to get get the Polish AKM Premium at Atlantic for the other. I love classic AKs and those are some of the best out there right now. Woo Hoo!
Good choice on the 6920.
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Sooooooooo,,,,,, I got a LE6920 MPS-B with the Magpul Slim Line furniture. After spending quite a bit of time reading on the forum and then fondling it at the lgs I spent the extra few bucks. I'm going to get get the Polish AKM Premium at Atlantic for the other. I love classic AKs and those are some of the best out there right now. Woo Hoo!
Sounds good, although one of your kids is probably going to hate you for sticking them with an AK. (JK)
Beat Trash
12-06-15, 17:37
Get something like this for the second son, currently $699.99. In time, pick up a set of the MagPul MOE sl furniture and install it. Both sons will be set. If you love AK's, save up the extra money in some fashion and get the AK for yourself, and for a "family AK".
http://www.mrgundealer.com/product.colt-le6920-oem1-rifle-556-oem1-le-6920-oem-90-1047
X,
I'd look at s&w, stag, and palmetto state Armory.
The only parts that won't interchange between mid and carbine are standard or moe handgaurds, and gas tubes.
I would not upgrade them, I would keep them and Jr can buy a better one once he grows up and starts working. Any of the above should work fine out the box and if not, the companies will correct the issue.
Edit, I'd just get the m&p sport imo.
What he said☝
Strength Of Arms
12-07-15, 15:46
Oh, I have another AR I could pass along if one of them doesn't like the AK, and vice versa. I have this thing where I like to have at least two of each type of weapon and caliber for spare parts, backup, etc and to pass along as part of inheritance. At least those are some of the reasons I tell my beautiful wife!!! I've enjoyed AKs since they have historically been inexpensive to buy and feed but with the prices of AKs going up and ARs having hit bottom...... I'd be insane not to get'em while the gettings good.
Oh, I have another AR I could pass along if one of them doesn't like the AK, and vice versa. I have this thing where I like to have at least two of each type of weapon and caliber for spare parts, backup, etc and to pass along as part of inheritance. At least those are some of the reasons I tell my beautiful wife!!! I've enjoyed AKs since they have historically been inexpensive to buy and feed but with the prices of AKs going up and ARs having hit bottom...... I'd be insane not to get'em while the gettings good.
Exactly my line of thinking, picked up 2 complete BCM uppers and 2 complete PSA lowers. With the pricing at the bottom nobody should be waiting to buy now.
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