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View Full Version : My Observations: Shooting the M&P 45 and Glock 21SF



Gutshot John
08-07-08, 09:13
Picked up an M&P two weeks ago from my local shop to replace the 21SF that I didn't really like. I've long wanted a double-stack 45 and have tried quite a few including an HK Tactical. All were just too big. The slim-frame Glock and the M&P offered the most two attractive solutions to this problem. I had tried the Glock and sold it very quickly, it wasn't the solution I was looking for and so I looked to the M&P. These are my impressions of shooting both guns.

It should be noted that both guns were bone-stock and had nothing done to them. Moreover I AM a Glock fan, in 9mm it's very hard to beat.

Ergonomics: M&P is superior, using a small or even medium insert, my hand grasps it perfectly. The thinner frame eliminates much of the problem with undergripping that I had with the 21SF. Likewise it feels very much like a 1911 in terms of grip memory. Every time I would pull and point the Glock I'd have to adjust my grip as I found I had to pull the muzzle back to the proper index. If you have smaller hands like I do, than the M&P is really the best double-stack .45 option.

Controls: Glock slightly wins, The ambi-slide release makes this a nice choice for lefty's who have trouble dropping the slide on a Glock. I've adjusted so it's less a problem for me. The manual safety is similar to a 1911, so if you're used to that it won't be a problem. I do however prefer the simplicity of a Glock. My M&P also has a mag safety, which I don't like. I won't take it out.

Trigger: Again the M&P wins, bone stock it's just a better trigger than the Glock. Reset gives nice feedback and is a bit shorter than a Glock. Double-taps were surprising after the Glock. I'm not a fan of stock Glock triggers and the 21SF is no exception.

Sights: Glock wins: As bad as stock Glock sights are, I prefer them to the 3-dot setup of a M&P. My M&P came with night-sights but I really didn't like them either.

Controllability: M&P shot much tighter double-taps both in accuracy and splits (I didn't have a timer, but the M&P was noticeably faster). Recoil was a bit sharper with the narrower frame, but the Glock would slip/shift in the hand significantly more during rapid fire. The M&P stayed exactly where it should.

Accuracy: Slight advantage to M&P. Slow fire from rest, any differences were negligible. I'd have to try the M&P with better sights to be sure. Given better short-range, rapid fire accuracy, I'd lean towards the M&P as more accurate, but I need more information. Overall I shot the M&P significantly better, but this may be less of a function of inherent accuracy vs. grip, trigger etc.

Disassembly/Maintenance: Glock wins, the whole sticking the pin into your frame to disengage the sear seems a bit weird. The number of available Glock parts also gives it a nice edge. I know the Glock backwards/forwards and can totally disassemble it if I need to replace a part. I don't see why the M&P shouldn't be as easy to take apart.

Reliability: Glock probably but I didn't put either through a torture test (about 800 rounds over three days), but I'm pretty confident in shooting A LOT of rounds through a Glock with no more cleaning than a rag and some lube. That's not to say the M&P can't, it's just a question of confidence.

Conclusion: M&P probably wins, while the Glock remains my favorite 9mm it also has to be modified. The stock 21SF is simply too big for everyone, but if you have big mitts you should at least consider it. For the Glock you have to spend a little money to customize some of the features that an M&P has stock. The M&P also makes up for a lot of short-comings in other double-stack .45s (including the 21sf) and represents a unique and well-thought out design. While I'd prefer to have a few more rounds in the magazine (especially shooting matches) the M&P is a very significant design. More to the point I'm keeping the M&P and I ditched the 21SF. This being said I prefer the Glock in 9mm to an M&P in .45, but the latter has convinced me to try a 9mm.

smithjd
08-07-08, 10:34
The M&P has an extra step to disassembly because police administrators / and trainers requested it.

The Glock is nice and easy, but pulling the trigger after forgetting to unload it has resulted in the destruction of many items of office furniture and vehicles and other things by otherwise good people (everyone is human and can make a mistake, that they were following Rule #2 means no one got hurt).

This happens with local, state, and federal leo's numerous times per year across the country and a few that I am familiar with (not personally, though).

In a perfect world, no one would ever have an anal cranal inversion and it would be unnecessary. We do not live in such a place.

Since it makes the weapon more complicated in administration only, and not in any way shooting / fighting with it, I have no problem with it.

When I was in armorer's class, IIRC they said you can still take the M&P apart the Glock way.

Gutshot John
08-07-08, 13:44
The M&P has an extra step to disassembly because police administrators / and trainers requested it.


It's probably a valid reason, but it just seems a needlessly small, and fragile part. It's probably ok but the little piece of metal seems like it could be easily bent.

We've all seen AD/ND, in fact it happened this weekend at a match to a very experienced shooter whom I personally respect, but safe gunhandling (rule#2) saved the day.

DM-SC
08-07-08, 14:35
I'd like to say that the "extra" step during the M&P's disassembly is a total waste...but, I can't! There are people out there who NEED something like that to stand in their way of disaster! :(

For the rest of us...it is a small PITA...at least for those of us actually clean our guns from time to time! :D

ToddG
08-07-08, 15:52
While I would never recommend it, you certainly can disassemble an M&P using the same process as a Glock, unless you have a mag disconnect (as GSJ does).

As for the sear disconnect lever's fragility, I've never heard of one breaking. It's a zero-stress part. Nothing acts on it during the firing cycle. In the event one were to break, it still cannot be out of the "fire" position if there's a magazine in the gun. The gun would still work, you'd simply have to pull the trigger on an empty chamber to disassemble it.

Gutshot John
08-07-08, 16:04
As for the sear disconnect lever's fragility, I've never heard of one breaking. It's a zero-stress part. Nothing acts on it during the firing cycle.

Check, I figured as much, actually I was more worried about myself doing something f'd up and bending the sear by shoving the pin somewhere I shouldn't.

Gutshot John
08-07-08, 16:38
Other things I forgot to include:

In terms of Ergonomics, I slightly prefer the Glock grip angle. It's kind of what I'm used to, but I think it's really the most natural angle for point-shooting. I don't think the Glock angle would work as well in the M&P, but it makes up for it in other virtues. For instance you don't have to reach for the trigger with the M&P, you do with a Glock.

In terms of reliability, neither weapon experienced a single malfunction. I shot mostly 230gr ball, but split it up between Speer Lawman, Wolf (Poly) and Fiocchi. No problems but with the Wolf you can feel confident that you can shoot relatively cheaply with both. I also shot half a box of Fed hydra through both, no problems.

HK45
08-09-08, 12:47
I would only add that the mid-size M&P .45 feels about perfect to me. Better balanced than the full size but still has 10 rounds of .45. It gives up nothing in accuracy to the full size either plus it's easier to carry. Right now that pistol and the HK 45c are my favorites. The 21SF is also a great pistol but both the HK and M&P have superior ergo's allowing for rapid accurate shots without readjusting your grip.