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I'm looking to get a wrench and vise block for my bench to work on my ar's.
I've seen some wrenches go for 10 bucks up to 90 online.
Does brand matter for them? Or are they generally all the same. There are some brands I have heard of and others I have not.
Let me know if I can save some monies or should pony up and get the more expensive ones
Thanks!
VP
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I recently picked up the Magpul BEV block and their wrench over the Thanksgiving break but haven't used them yet. The BEV block can be used for the upper and lower. The only issue I read about is the fact that it might not fit on certain barrel extensions. Which ones? I have no idea..
I have the most inexpensive PSA upper blocks and nut wrench. They work fine. I also have the Brownells Reaction Rod knockoff that I never use.
The Wheeler Engineering Delta Series Upper Receiver Vise Block works good and its not a lot of cash. For me the gas tube alignment rod came in handy.
I have had no problems with the Magpul wrench and a set of clamshells for the receiver, oh and a good heavy vice.
Clarence
lightestfighter
12-08-15, 17:31
I have used Botach's Kley-Zion barrel spline with good results. My barrel nut wrench is this one: https://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186710&CAT=4215
WatchTheWorldBern
12-08-15, 17:42
I'm also curious to hear experiences with the BEV block. Wrench looks good, been thinking of picking one up next time I see a good price.
I have both the BEV block and the Magpul wrench. They are both very nice, and in using them for a few jobs they have worked quite a bit better than the old clamshell upper block and the cheaper wrench I used to use. The bev block has some play in it, even when putting your bolt carrier in the back, but it was solid enough to install/remove muzzle devices as well as to install barrel nuts.
Magpul sent me the armorer's kit stuff late last year to try out. Their wrench is hands down the best standard AR wrench that I have used. The BEV block is good for standard use, but I prefer the Reaction Rod for higher volume, installing rails, etc...
That PRI wrench is good if you are only installing USGI barrel nuts and there is no FSB. If an FSB is present, you will need to remove it first.
556BlackRifle
12-08-15, 21:53
Another vote for the Reaction Rod. As for the wrench, I don't own the Magpul wrench but I did try it out and if I was going to buy an AR15 armorers wrench, that would be the one. (I currently have two wrenches and no plans to buy a third.)
Magpul sent me the armorer's kit stuff late last year to try out. Their wrench is hands down the best standard AR wrench that I have used. The BEV block is good for standard use, but I prefer the Reaction Rod for higher volume, installing rails, etc...
That PRI wrench is good if you are only installing USGI barrel nuts and there is no FSB. If an FSB is present, you will need to remove it first.
Would you use the reaction rod or bev block for installing barrels, or just for flash hiders etc?
titsonritz
12-08-15, 22:29
I use a Magpul Armorer's Wrench, a Geissele Reaction Block for lower work and Geissele Reaction Rod for upper work.
WatchTheWorldBern
12-08-15, 22:43
Magpul sent me the armorer's kit stuff late last year to try out. Their wrench is hands down the best standard AR wrench that I have used. The BEV block is good for standard use, but I prefer the Reaction Rod for higher volume, installing rails, etc...
Another vote for the Reaction Rod.
Why? (Serious question—want to understand.) I don't have any practical experience with either, and I've been trying to decide between the two. BEV blocked seemed better on paper because it could do everything, but I couldn't discount the reaction rod because Geissele.
titsonritz
12-08-15, 23:16
Why? (Serious question—want to understand.) I don't have any practical experience with either, and I've been trying to decide between the two. BEV blocked seemed better on paper because it could do everything, but I couldn't discount the reaction rod because Geissele.
If by "seemed better on paper" you mean being cheaper and works for both receivers, that is true. I find the Geissele product faster when it comes to position adjustments and more solid lock up without applying stress to the aluminum receiver when properly used. One sweet thing I love is you can mount the rod vertical, horizontal or any where in between, plus rotate the upper around the rod 360* in 45* increments to get just the right orientation you desire. When installing a rail (especially a DD with their 6 bolts) it is a simple matter slide upper off the lugs a little and rotate the upper to the next desired position without having to reset the vise.
Here are some threads you might want to check out:
BEV vs. Reaction Rod vs. Barrel Extension Torque Tool (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?160226-BEV-vs-Reaction-Rod-vs-Barrel-Extension-Torque-Tool&highlight=reaction)
Geissele reaction rod (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?118152-Geissele-reaction-rod&highlight=reaction)
Geissele Reaction Block (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?163648-Geissele-Reaction-Block&highlight=reaction)
Building an upper (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?175662-Building-an-upper&highlight=reaction)
Armorer's wrench (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?170585-Armorer-s-wrench&highlight=reaction)
WatchTheWorldBern
12-08-15, 23:55
Damn, thanks, that's super helpful.
Bev block $47, Wheeler ar15 bench block $35 and Tapco armorers multitool $35 works for me as basic tools. Before that I used a 2x4 wood block and padding in a vise w the armorers wrench so, I'm about as basic as I can get right now on AR specific tools and get the job done.
I have a garage full of general hand/automotive tools to go with.
Compared to the rest of these guys I'm a novice; but the three items I listed give me the tools I need to be capable of doing proper work.
Let me say this. I have all kinds of tools, hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth. In some cases, those tools may be used in a one of situation. The BEV block is economical and it works. The one down side (as titsonritz mentions) is the fact that you secure the upper and it's fixed into a position. With the Reaction Rod I have the ability to move it around. In a situation of normal installation that works fine.
If I encounter something with a seized nut, then I switch to something else so as to not damage the indexing pin.
I also have the Reaction Block as well and it is VERY SECURE for working on the lower and receiver extension.
Would you use the reaction rod or bev block for installing barrels, or just for flash hiders etc?
titsonritz
12-09-15, 01:22
Out of curiosity, what do you use in that case?
If I encounter something with a seized nut, then I switch to something else so as to not damage the indexing pin.
I use the old school clamshell and the insert. If I start to see a lot of flexing I start looking closer to see if there is Loctite or ??? Heating up can sometimes help. In some rare cases I have had to cut USGI barrel nuts off.
Out of curiosity, what do you use in that case?
titsonritz
12-09-15, 11:33
Thank you for that information.
I use the old school clamshell and the insert. If I start to see a lot of flexing I start looking closer to see if there is Loctite or ??? Heating up can sometimes help. In some rare cases I have had to cut USGI barrel nuts off.
ncshooter18
12-09-15, 12:10
Heated reaction rod vs clamshell vs the rest debate in 3...2...
Heated reaction rod vs clamshell vs the rest debate in 3...2...
Never happen.
Two different points of contact for different uses.
Heated reaction rod vs clamshell vs the rest debate in 3...2...
People are going to use whatever tool they want (right or wrong) I can't stop them. They will just have to learn the hard way in regards to the Reaction Rod... Most of them do sooner or later.
titsonritz
12-09-15, 15:11
People are going to use whatever tool they want (right or wrong) I can't stop them. They will just have to learn the hard way in regards to the Reaction Rod... Most of them do sooner or later.
Please note that I linked the thread where you brought up your opposition to the Reaction Rod, I did so intentionally so the pros vs cons are out there in full disclosure. I've never had the issue mentioned but then I've never dealt with a barrel nut cemented on with red Loctite or stupid over torqued and now that I have been made aware of the issue I doubt it will ever be a problem, which is why asked Iraqgunz how he handles seized barrel nuts. For my use I find the convenience of the Reaction Rod is enough to continue using it.
Let me say this. I have all kinds of tools, hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth. In some cases, those tools may be used in a one of situation. The BEV block is economical and it works. The one down side (as titsonritz mentions) is the fact that you secure the upper and it's fixed into a position.
I can second (third?) that as being somewhat of an issue with the BEV block. Thus far I've done 2 uppers, pinned a few gas blocks, added/removed rails, muzzle devices, etc etc and I've hit a few situations where being able to reposition the upper would have been advantageous. Just for my personal use on a handful of uppers, it's not a big deal, I'll just work around it. If I was doing it for a living I'd go a different direction.....
Magpul sent me the armorer's kit stuff late last year to try out. Their wrench is hands down the best standard AR wrench that I have used. The BEV block is good for standard use, but I prefer the Reaction Rod for higher volume, installing rails, etc...
That PRI wrench is good if you are only installing USGI barrel nuts and there is no FSB. If an FSB is present, you will need to remove it first.
IG, do you have a preferred FSB block or method of fixation for the FSB while removing the taper pins?
IG, do you have a preferred FSB block or method of fixation for the FSB while removing the taper pins?
Yeah, I'd like to hear that myself... I tried to get BCM pinned FSB out.... FAIL... I later learned I was better off leaving it alone anyway, but I would like to know you get those suckers apart. I watched a Brownells video and that was a joke the way he knocked those pins in and out.
titsonritz
12-09-15, 17:58
IG, do you have a preferred FSB block or method of fixation for the FSB while removing the taper pins?
He described his method in this thread (post#7): Remove and reinstall front sight? (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?172822-Remove-and-reinstall-front-sight&highlight=taper) It works beautifully.
Oh, nice.... so regarding the hammer. Do you use a heavy like a 2-3lb sledge hammer and knock it modestly and controlled. Or do you get a 16oz and really try to smack it? I'm basically trying to figure how you keep that punch under control.
Please note that I linked the thread where you brought up your opposition to the Reaction Rod, I did so intentionally so the pros vs cons are out there in full disclosure. I've never had the issue mentioned but then I've never dealt with a barrel nut cemented on with red Loctite or stupid over torqued and now that I have been made aware of the issue I doubt it will ever be a problem, which is why asked Iraqgunz how he handles seized barrel nuts. For my use I find the convenience of the Reaction Rod is enough to continue using it.
Noted.
Yeah, I'd like to hear that myself... I tried to get BCM pinned FSB out.... FAIL... I later learned I was better off leaving it alone anyway, but I would like to know you get those suckers apart. I watched a Brownells video and that was a joke the way he knocked those pins in and out.
I'm a girl, I got out BCM FSB pins for a cut down. Hammer + punch. You just can't be afraid to hit it.
To keep the punch under control, you hold it. Use the nail set punches that are concave and use a punch that fits. Hold it steady and hit it.
In my rail change it took more muscle to reset the pins all the way in than to get them out.
It's not the size of the hammer, it's the technique. I use this hammer. Like I have stated before. You need to use the largest flat punch you have first to keep the punch over the pins and hit them. Once they are flushed out, then get the other punch and knock them through.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/hammers/1-nylon-brass-hammer-prod12588.aspx
Oh, nice.... so regarding the hammer. Do you use a heavy like a 2-3lb sledge hammer and knock it modestly and controlled. Or do you get a 16oz and really try to smack it? I'm basically trying to figure how you keep that punch under control.
ok, got it. I think part of my problem must have been not having the barrel secure enough. Noted for the next go round.
It's not the size of the hammer, it's the technique. I use this hammer. Like I have stated before. You need to use the largest flat punch you have first to keep the punch over the pins and hit them. Once they are flushed out, then get the other punch and knock them through.
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/general-gunsmith-tools/hammers/1-nylon-brass-hammer-prod12588.aspx
How far should the taper pin stick through when installing? Having a very hard time with a predrilled DD FFB. Made me question whether it was drilled taper.
I can't see mine right now but I seem to recall it's just enough that you easily feel it if you rub your finger over it. IOW, it wouldn't snag you but definitely not flush or below surface.
You are going the right way? At 6:15 he puts pins in and I swear, I just can't believe they go in that easy. when he get's through it seems like if the thing heated up and cooled a few times and got knocked around they would work loose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBeqd2_TXFg
I can't see mine right now but I seem to recall it's just enough that you easily feel it if you rub your finger over it. IOW, it wouldn't snag you but definitely not flush or below surface.
You are going the right way? At 6:15 he puts pins in and I swear, I just can't believe they go in that easy. when he get's through it seems like if the thing heated up and cooled a few times and got knocked around they would work loose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBeqd2_TXFg
The way that was shown in that video was all kinds of wrong... Truly cringe worthy.
The Brownells FSB bench block would have to be modified quite a bit for it to actually work in that situation.
He was attempting to install those pins with basically no support under the FSB whatsoever. You can see the barrel flex within the rail with every hit. :fie:
GazillionUSMC
12-13-15, 19:18
These are items that you get what you pay for. I've used the inexpensive ones and regretted it. Now I only use the MagPul BEV Block and MagPul wrench.
Slvr Surfr
12-14-15, 20:21
Can't imagine life without the reaction rod. I was never a big fan of the clam shells. A good barrel vice is also worth the money. I have not used the Magpul stuff, but I'm sure they are good quality.
I pick up some of the upper holding blocks and it left marks on the upper.
I pick up some of the upper holding blocks and it left marks on the upper.
They should buff out with CLP.
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