View Full Version : My first concealed carry weapon
I will start by stating that i am not very familiar with Semi Auto Pistols. I have had a few, a basic Kimber, a Sig 226 and a little Ruger LCP that i bought for my wife. I have been around hunting guns all my life (Shotguns, rifles, bows etc), even a couple of revolvers. I have a Ruger Single Six and a Blackhawk SA. I have been looking at pistols alot lately and have been overwhelmed with the choices. I would like something I can shoot on a regular basis, so i think a sub compact is out of the question. I guess what im asking is where to start. Which should i avoid, what are some of the better features of some of the weapons? From what ive seen as far as price, it really is not an object. Most of the carry guns i have seen dont seem to be unreasonably priced. If i sound like an idiot, im sorry. I just have absolutely no experience in this area.
thanks
USMC_Anglico
12-09-15, 08:46
Try and get to a range with rentals or a friend/s with some different makes, rent a few of the usual suspects - Glock, HK, S&W, etc. and see what you like. You say you have had a P226, nothing wrong with that if you like it and it works well for you. Basically any modern semi-auto from a decent mfg. is going to be fine, it all depends on your preferences and abilities with that specific piece (DA/SA, SA, Striker or hammer, etc.)
At least go to a gun shop and try to hold a few in your hand. It sounds like you're talking about a Walther PPQ, HK VP9, or Glock 19. My preference has been the PPQ or the VP9 - I have come to vastly prefer a pre-cocked striker and its resultant superior trigger pull. Even those pistols, including the Glock 19 are too bulky for comfortable concealed carry IMHO and my preference for CC has been a single-stack sub-compact (Walther PPS). You could look at the Sig P226 if you want a double action pistol (I recommend against it). There are a few others, maybe a Sig P320, and you're going to get a ton of responses with people promoting their favorite pistols. I predict that the Glock 19 will come up a lot in this thread. I personally would never own any Glock ever again, but you should shoot one and see if you like it.
Having recently made the same decision, I'd go shoot a PPQ in 9mm. I'm still seeing them $500ish, and they are great shooters.
One friend who was glock/sig fan/owner went out and bought one after shooting mine. And nearly everyone who has shot mine comments on how easy it is to shoot accurately and fast.
I also have a P99, and both are totally reliable and excellent quality.
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
thanks for the quick responses. HMAC, i have been fondling alot of pistols at the local gun stores. the HKs do seem to fit my hand well. i do get lost in all the numbers, so i cant say for sure which ones i have seen, i guess i will need to take a tablet and write down which i have looked at and what i like and dont like. as for renting guns at the range, the closest one to me that does that, does not always have what i want to shoot, which is a problem. USMC Angelico, I do like the 226, but, it is a bit heavy to carry on a regular basis. Plus, its a .357 sig and the ammo eats me up.
snowdog650
12-09-15, 09:55
If you like the 226, be sure to check out the 229.
Welcome to the forums.
You don’t sound like an idiot. You sound like a guy who has intelligent questions on a subject that’s stacked to the rafters with ego, ignorance, and misleading bullshit.
Speaking of which, the short answer to your question is probably “Get a Glock 17 or 19.”
The longer answer is to consider pistols that have been adopted and retained by major military and/or law enforcement organizations. That list includes products by Beretta, Colt, FN, Glock, HK, SIG-Sauer, and Smith & Wesson. None will be perfect--all will require at least some tweaking to be truly ready. If you stick around here very long, then you’ll get a solid handle on what you need to know about each make and model, plus the tweaks they require.
The advice to shoot different things is sound, and will certainly get you started. But remember that what feels good in your hand may not perform the best on the range, especially at speed. The best way to compare different defense pistols is to shoot them on established drills on a timer, and compare those times to your personal baseline for those drills. Obviously you won’t be ready to do that until you’ve got some experience, but that’s the direction you should take.
No matter what you choose, buying a pistol is just the start. Do do it right, you’ll need five or six spare magazines, a good holster/belt/mag carrier, several cases of ammo, and good training in the first year. From there you can go down the rabbit hole of your choosing just like the rest of us.
Again, welcome to the forums.
Okie John
Another issue that has concerned me is the lack of a safe/fire switch on most of the guns i have looked at. i understand how they all work, but, it has been drilled into me from a very young age, that you always have your weapon on safe. its a hard habit to break. are there many of the modern semi auto pistols that have an external safety switch? if so, which ones?
I'm in the same boat man, there are a ton of choices. Definitely try to shoot some before you buy. I thought a Glock would be perfect for me until I shot one.
If you don't mind sa/da like your 226, check out the Beretta px4 and CZ p07.
The safety on a CCW is..
A. Hard body holster to prevents access to trigger
B. Your finger off the trigger once drawn from holster
C. The little safety lever in the trigger is what you press to disengage it.
If you draw a CCW it will certainly be to intend to shoot something. At that point no matter what what gun you have you will disengage the safeties. Such as with a 1911. However... with a 1911, even with your finger off the trigger ther is no further safety present. You have squeezed the backstrap safety, and disengaged the thumb safety. So even if your finger is off trigger there is no safety present. On the new stuff, when your finger is off trigger, the trigger safety is engaged.
Also I would look at a Walther PPS. they are very thin and easy wear. I don't know what shoot all the time means, but it's a very fun gun to shoot. I wouldn't want to shoot a steel match or something like that but you certainly could.
I think you are going to find you want two pistols. Full size for fun. Small size for carry. For whatever reason a lot of those compacts seem like they chopped off the grip and somethings missing. Not so with the PPS for me. It feels good to hold. Very accurate and again, it is perfectly fun to shoot.
If you shopped around you could get a PPS and PPQ,VP,Glock, etc. both for under $1K lightly used. Practicing with the PPS will not be burden.
Glock 19 is usually the default answer to your question, for good reason. If people leave it for something else, it's usually because they find something that fits them better ergonomically. Glocks are just shaped weird. That being said, there are tons of people that shoot them extremely well, it just takes practice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Another issue that has concerned me is the lack of a safe/fire switch on most of the guns i have looked at. i understand how they all work, but, it has been drilled into me from a very young age, that you always have your weapon on safe. its a hard habit to break. are there many of the modern semi auto pistols that have an external safety switch? if so, which ones?
Yeah. I've probably been shooting a lot longer than you (I suspect), long before there was any such thing as striker-fired handguns. I got the same instruction about the manual safeties back then. Now, it's been drilled into me over the last decade or more that you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER put your finger on the trigger until you are lined up on something you are willing to destroy. I didn't find breaking that long-standing "flick-the-safety-off" habit hard to break in any way, nor did I find the "keep your finger off the trigger" habit difficult to ingrain.
Good gun safety habits and appropriate training make a manual safety unnecessary and probably counterproductive if you plan on this pistol having any kind of self-defense role. Your typical striker-fired pistol has internal safeties that prevent the striker from being released without your finger on the trigger. If you're not confident of your ability to keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire (universal handgun safety Rule #4), then you might be better off with a DA/SA handgun like the Sig P226. That's an excellent firearm, although it is heavy. Do note that it comes in 9mm, not just .40/.357 SIG. That DA/SA pistol has a long, 11lb trigger pull on first shot, so safety rule carelessness with Rule #4 might be a little less critical. With some handguns, you can get a "New York" or "Massachusetts" trigger - a striker fired pistol with a 10lb trigger (typically an awful trigger). Along those lines, you might also want to consider a revolver with their long and heavy trigger pull that, like any DA trigger, might keep you from shooting something you don't want to shoot if you can't train yourself to keep your finger off the trigger.
And, of course you can get some pistols with a manual safety - notably the M&P series, some FNs, some CZs.
My personal inclination is that if a person can't train themselves to reliably keep their finger off the trigger, owning and especially carrying a gun might be more dangerous than not owning or carrying and that person should reconsider their self-defense options.
ETA: I don't mean to sound harsh or critical, but training, training, training is absolutely fundamental to firearm ownership, and that is most especially true if you plan on using it for self-defense, and MOST especially true if you plan on carrying that firearm on your person. I see too many people in these days of Obama-driven gun-buying panic that somehow believe that all they need to do is buy a gun and they will now be safe. The reality is that even your typical state-required concealed carry course has nothing to do with teaching anyone to safely and effectively use a handgun for self defense, and I suspect that it is true that an inadequately trained firearms owner is probably more dangerous to himself and his family than he would be having no firearm at all.
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sevenhelmet
12-09-15, 12:17
I will add to this that for something you want to shoot a lot but also CCW, a subcompact shouldn't be totally ruled out. While some are a bit awkward, I have one that is comfortable in hand , a joy to shoot, and all but disappears under virtually any clothing. Also, absolutely take the time to research and invest in a quality holster, belt designed to support a holster, and spare mag carrier (unless you're using a shoulder/ankle rig or something). I strongly recommend you carry at least one spare mag in the event of a mag-related malfunction, and should a tactical/admin reload become necessary. There are threads here and elsewhere which are chock full of good information on holsters and carriage gear. Based on personal experience, I have found Crossbreed's holsters to be an excellent option which is also reasonably priced, and they sell matched sets of all 3 pieces of aforementioned gear as a set.
As for safeties, try a few different types, pick your pistol, and practice, practice, practice, with your gear. Good luck!
Another issue that has concerned me is the lack of a safe/fire switch on most of the guns i have looked at. i understand how they all work, but, it has been drilled into me from a very young age, that you always have your weapon on safe. its a hard habit to break. are there many of the modern semi auto pistols that have an external safety switch? if so, which ones?
Safeties are a touchy subject. The main thing is to understand that, as Pat McNamara puts it, a safety is always an enabler, never a disabler.
Shooters today look at two sets of problems: hardware (gear) and software (people).
In terms of hardware, you can have a safety lever if you want one—and this requirement will definitely shorten the list of eligible pistols—but there’s nothing wrong with the pistols that come without them.
There are also different types of safeties. One is the external lever or button (as on the Remington 870 or Colt 1911) in which mechanical parts affect one another to reduce the chance that the shooter will fire the weapon inadvertently. Of course, this combination of parts can fail. Another is a long, heavy trigger pull (as on a DA revolver, DAO auto, or some striker-fired pistols) in which the weight and length of travel help reduce the chance that the shooter will fire the weapon inadvertently. A third is a combination of the first two, in which mechanical parts can be used to alter the condition of the weapon to create the long, heavy trigger pull described above. Examples of this include most TDA designs.
None of these devices can keep the rest of us safe if the shooter has his or her finger on the trigger at the wrong time, and that brings us to software. In terms of software, hardware is rarely the problem, which is why we all keep talking about training.
Okie John
Psalms144.1
12-09-15, 13:26
Noodle - first of all, thank you for making the decision to take responsibility for your own safety. Here are some of my thoughts on the subject, in no particular order:
1. Manual safety. As mentioned above, this is a touchy subject. You'll get everyone from the (lifts index finger condescendingly and growls like an OPERATOR) "THIS is my safety" to the "you'll kill yourself on the first draw if you don't have a safety!" folks. In reality, MOST modern, quality self-defense pistols DON'T have manual safeties, because they have multiple redundant passive safeties built in. Doesn't mean a pistol with a safety is a BAD choice, just that it probably shouldn't be a deal-breaker. If it is, you're going to severely narrow your choices.
2. Action type. DA/SA, SAO, Striker, DAO, DAK, LEM - whadda ya want? There are an enormous number of trigger actions to pick from.
(a) DA/SA offers a long, deliberate heavy trigger pull for the first shot (some would say, erroneously IMHO, that this is a "safety" feature), followed by a short, light, usually crisp trigger pull for all follow up shots. DA/SA transition is an issue, but certainly something you can train through easily with the right instruction and dedication. For a newer shooter, the larger issue, for me, is the requirement to decock the pistol after shooting to "make it safe" to reholster. This step gets missed with distressing frequency by "experienced" law enforcement shooters, and, when all that's between you and a loud banging noise is that SA trigger press - "dis is prohblehm". For a competent, well trained shooter, not an issue, and the DA/SA combination is definitely worth a look.
(b) SAO - short, light, crisp single action trigger pull on every shot - what's not to love? The 1911 epitomizes the advantages of this trigger - there's a reason why most "raceguns" are built on 1911 platforms. For a novice shooter looking for an SD pistol, this ease of shootability might not be a great thing. Once the manual safety is disengaged, all that stops you from shooting is about 4 pounds of crisp pressure on a VERY short movement.
(c) Striker - the current "king of the hill." Glock, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP9, on and on, all have striker fired triggers. These are the great "middle men" - a medium length take up with medium pull weight to a medium weight break and a short reset. These are very easy to learn to shoot, based on a decent trigger, and a consistent trigger action (no need to learn more than one trigger pull). Some strikers (M&P for one) are available with manual safeties, if that makes a difference.
(d) DAO - imagine a DA/SA gun with no SA capability - long, heavy trigger pull every shot. Definitely not the action you want if you're looking to break speed records, and, generally, pretty hard to find nowadays (with good reason).
(e) DAK - Sig's proprietary DAO trigger - same long trigger pull, but the hammer spring is pre-tensioned so the pull is a little lighter. Typical DAO triggers run around 12#, the DAK is around 8#. It has some fleas, which I won't get into right now - but if you think you'd like a Sig, I'd be happy to discuss
(f) LEM - HK's proprietary DAO trigger. Except it's not really DAO at all, as the hammer is actually pre-cocked, but appears to be forward. Requires a long, light trigger take up to a medium weight break - then a mid-length reset and repeat. It's hard to explain, you'd really have to shoot one to get a feel for it. Again, some people LOVE it, I've never really been able to warm up to it.
3. Brands - fuggedaboudit. Too many to discuss.
4. Caliber - here I can give you some definitive input. Get a 9mm. Period. There's nothing a good 9mm JHP can't do that any other common SD caliber can; and you'll get more capacity, less recoil, and less wear and tear on your pistol. There's a reason why FBI/DHS, and countless local and state LE agencies are leaving the 40 and returning to 9mm.
5. Size - as a first carry pistol, I'd strongly suggest a "mid size" pistol - again, the G19 is the standard against which all others are compared. Sub compact guns are cool and all, but generally a LOT harder to shoot well, and, when you're just starting out, the last thing you need is a pistol that's hard to get good results with on the range. In the G19-ish size range are the CZ P07 (DA/SA), Sig P229 (DA/SA or DAK), HK P2000 (DA/SA or LEM), Beretta PX4 Compact (DA/SA or DAO), and probably some more that I'm forgetting.
I'm lucky enough to work for an agency with a very "liberal" personal firearms policy, that authorizes me to carry on duty any 9mm, 40, .45 or .38 Special from any of about 19 different manufacturers, with some very minor limitations (at least 3" barrel on autos, minimum 5 round capacity). I'm issued a Sig P229R DAK in 40, I carry a Gen4 G19, with a Gen4 G26 on my ankle as a BUG. I HATE everything about the GLOCK - the way it looks, the way it feels in my hand, the way it points, the trigger, EVERYTHING - UNTIL I get to the range. Then I can shoot it more accurately at speed, with better control, than anything else I've ever tried. Sure, I can shoot smaller groups in deliberate slow fire with a 1911, or HK P7, or P2000, but not "smaller enough" to give up the shootability of the GLOCK. And, I'm always looking for something (ANYTHING) to be the GLOCK killer, and, despite a LOT of time, ammunition and money spent in trying to find it, I always end up back with the G19.
Others have had the same experience, some have dumped the G19 for the new Sig P320, or the HK VP9 (both strong choices, from what I see).
Hope this helps, and please feel free to ask more questions.
(b) SAO - short, light, crisp single action trigger pull on every shot - what's not to love? The 1911 epitomizes the advantages of this trigger - there's a reason why most "raceguns" are built on 1911 platforms. For a novice shooter looking for an SD pistol, this ease of shootability might not be a great thing. Once the manual safety is disengaged, all that stops you from shooting is about 4 pounds of crisp pressure on a VERY short movement.
The popularity of the Walther PPQ and the HK VP9 revolve around the fact that they are single-action-only pistols too, with the advantages of a polymer frame, no hammer, and no safety (if one believes that having no manual safety is an advantage).
Psalms144.1
12-09-15, 15:00
Yes, the PPQ, VP9, XD, etc are, in fact Single Action Only, but the trigger actions are GENERALLY longer and heavier than that of a "traditional" SAO like the 1911 or BHP.
concreteguy
12-09-15, 21:35
Noodle
.
4. Caliber - here I can give you some definitive input. Get a 9mm. Period. There's nothing a good 9mm JHP can't do that any other common SD caliber can; and you'll get more capacity, less recoil, and less wear and tear on your pistol. There's a reason why FBI/DHS, and countless local and state LE agencies are leaving the 40 and returning to 9mm.
This is probably the best point yet. I was where you are just a few years ago. Got a 40 mostly because most 9mm were sold out.
Yes, the PPQ, VP9, XD, etc are, in fact Single Action Only, but the trigger actions are GENERALLY longer and heavier than that of a "traditional" SAO like the 1911 or BHP.
Pretty much true, but you don't have to suffer the drawbacks of those two ancient platforms.
thanks for all the responses, im reading trough them and educating myself. Hmac, i understand no finger on the trigger, i thought that went without saying. i have been hunting for the past 45 years, firearm safety has been drilled into me from my father, into my sons from me, and into my grandson from all three of us.(poor kid). i hunt over 150 days a year, either ducks, squirrels, deer or coyotes. im very familiar with hunting firearms (long guns) and the safe use of them. what i am not familiar with is the semi auto handgun. i find it odd that a locked and loaded short barreled weapon can be carried safely in my waistband or pocket without an external safety. im sure it is just my inexperience and ignorance of the mechanical functions of these guns. it is just hard to dismiss 45 years of behavior. im sure in time, i would come to terms and i guess "trust" that this gun will not go boom in my pants, however, im sure i would be much more comfortable with one with an external safety.
thanks for all the responses and suggestions, i truly appreciate them. and please keep them coming, i need to know all i can before selecting a weapon. anything you can tell me form brand, type, caliber. anything i might need to know. im pretty thick sknined, so if im way off base, tell me about it, and why. i want to learn. i dont know anyone who is familiar with these types of weapons, so yall are my only source.
thanks
i find it odd that a locked and loaded short barreled weapon can be carried safely in my waistband or pocket without an external safety.
I respectfully disagree, but your desire for a safety doesn't stop you from having plenty of good choices: Browning Hi-Power, Beretta 92, and a bevy of options from CZ, Colt, and HK. Of those, I'd look long and hard at the HK P30. You can set that thing up a lot of different ways.
Okie John
crusader377
12-10-15, 10:22
I will start by stating that i am not very familiar with Semi Auto Pistols. I have had a few, a basic Kimber, a Sig 226 and a little Ruger LCP that i bought for my wife. I have been around hunting guns all my life (Shotguns, rifles, bows etc), even a couple of revolvers. I have a Ruger Single Six and a Blackhawk SA. I have been looking at pistols alot lately and have been overwhelmed with the choices. I would like something I can shoot on a regular basis, so i think a sub compact is out of the question. I guess what im asking is where to start. Which should i avoid, what are some of the better features of some of the weapons? From what ive seen as far as price, it really is not an object. Most of the carry guns i have seen dont seem to be unreasonably priced. If i sound like an idiot, im sorry. I just have absolutely no experience in this area.
thanks
Personally, If you like your SIG P226 and are comfortable with it I would simply buy a Sig P229 or if you can find a lightly used or LNIB Sig P228 and call it a day. It is a proven platform that you already have extensive experience with. There would be no need to learn a new manual of arms plus IIRC the SIG 226 magazines can be used in the 228/229.
crusader377
12-10-15, 10:25
Pretty much true, but you don't have to suffer the drawbacks of those two ancient platforms.
With possible exception of the PPQ, I still would take a new Mark III BHP any day of the week over a XD or VP9.
You're doing the right thing by asking questions and looking for as much information as possible.
I'm going to echo an earlier post and say check out the Sig P229 if you like the P229. It's compact, good capacity, available in multiple calibers, and parts and mags are pretty easy to get. It's got a great availability of grips to make it fit your hand perfectly. And with the DA/SA action, you have the heavy first pull you seem more comfortable with.
There's also a massive selection of holsters availabile for it, everything from OWB open-carry style with active retention to excellent IWB concealed holsters that can make it disappear. I have one in .40. It doesn't point worth a damn for me (I'm a Glock guy), but it's a sweet shooter.
Don't let ego be a factor. A Shield or XD-S that is small and easy to conceal and keep on-target under stress yet is still comfortable will get carried a lot more than a boner gun.
WickedWillis
12-10-15, 12:23
Don't let ego be a factor. A Shield or XD-S that is small and easy to conceal and keep on-target under stress yet is still comfortable will get carried a lot more than a boner gun.
Very well said, and a great piece of advice.
OP, I really think you need to handle and rent some of the handguns you are considering, if you have a local range that allows that. I have saved myself thousands by renting guns that I had considered buying beforehand. Every shooter is different, and most everyone fires some handguns better than others. Personally, I shoot Sigs, Glocks and HK's better than most other handguns, but I prefer to carry a Glock 19 because of the simplicity and always knowing what the trigger pull would be. However, I do seem to be in a constant battle of wanting to carry something smaller when the weather turns nicer, but I have sold more single stack 9mm's than I should admit on here....
Go out, shoot some guns and see what you feel the most confident with. Having the P226 already, the P228 or P229 seems like a decent option for you, but we are not you. Good luck, and this was a well-thought out post.
Get a G19, some sights you like and a good kydex holster. That's all you need.
Haven't read all the posts, but saw a few from the OP.
fwiw: I too would say Glock 19 as a perfect all around
But, I read a mention of manual safety by the OP. Not sure if theses have been mentioned already, if so apologize.
Smith & Wesson M&P Compact 9mm w/ Thumb Safety
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766226_-1_757911_757910_757787_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
CZ P07
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-07-9mm-black-polymer-interchangeable-back-straps-15-rd-mags/
AGREE, with try/rent one of these at a local range before you buy.
I am far from an expert on the topic but I will tell you about my experience with concealed carry.
Started with a kel tec p11 IWB and clip carry
Pros: compact size was easy to conceal, decent capacity Cons: Mag rattled, heavy trigger resulted in poor shooting
Overall: Mine was reliable with no FTF or FTE ever but I have friends that have sent theirs into factory multiple times.
Probably would not own another kel tec
traded it for a gen 3 Glock 19 IWB Kydex holster carry
Pros: great trigger, great capacity, great reliability Cons: too bulky for my lifestyle and work attire, harder to conceal, heavy with full mag
Overall: Still a fantastic shooter but will only use for HD or winter carry, wouldn't mind a smaller glock 26, 43 etc. for EDC though
Now carrying a S&W airweight 442 J-frame revolver w/no lock pocket carry with Desantis Nemesis pocket holster & a speed loader
Pros: light weight, reliable, very easy to carry and conceal, hammerless and easy to draw Cons: heavier trigger, limited capacity slow reload
Overall: Goes everywhere with me, unlike when I had the glock, heavier trigger pull does not bother me like it did on the keltec, and the J frame is much easier to shoot IMO though many claim it is for more experienced shooters and kicks like hell I do not find that to be the case even with +P rounds, not a range gun by any means but perfect for CCW with a little practice, fits my hand points and shoots quite well despite smaller size. Really want to get a set of crimson trace laser grips for low light conditions, and considering carrying a second J frame for the "new York reload" cool factor
MountainRaven
12-11-15, 23:28
Things to bear in mind:
Pretty much everybody who spends any period of time instructing those who rely on their handguns to stay alive - or who has done so themselves - recommends a "fighting sized" handgun (from Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith to Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers). Generally speaking, this means something the size of a Glock 19 or larger.
Obviously, there may be a time when you might need something smaller, but then we get into guns that are guns to carry, "when you're not carrying a gun".
Here's some advice from LAV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdYH2M7CJN4
And a short read that was emailed out earlier today: Link (http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?u=7b1a9382c490b04b227c7c2b9&id=4f7f516288&e=852473e203).
For the safety, pistols are much different than longguns. One you carry through the woods with the trigger exposed. The other is sealed and secured until used, this is why safety less pistols are acceptable.
I'd only carry a pistol or revolver in a holster that covers the trigger guard. Also, I'd say get instruction and try various handguns. Depending on a safety for safety is not the most wide choice as it is a mechanical system and mechanical systems have the potential for failure. My experience is as a few defensive handgun classes in Washington and Cali and carried a G17, G22, HK P7M8, HK USP45, 5" 1911, and compact 1911 so far loved the G17 and 1911 compact.
Sent from paradise.
The suggested firearms are all fine weapons and would definitely work well for self-defense. However, if you are looking for a pistol to carry concealed, there is one thing that trumps all else.
If it is uncomfortable to carry for an extended period, you will tend not to carry it at all. A gun that is not carried because it is too large, too bulky, too heavy, has too many odd corners or whatever it might be, is useless for self-defense outside of your home. A good holster can help a lot, but it cannot solve every problem.
If you cannot carry a double stack pistol comfortably, then try a single stack. If you cannot carry a full size pistol comfortably, then try a compact or sub-compact pistol. You may end up with a sub-compact single stack like a .380 Ruger LCP as your carry pistol. It's no fun to shoot at the range and doesn't have the power of a 9mm, but any gun carried is better for defending yourself than the full sized, full power pistol that is at home in your safe because it's just too uncomfortable to carry.
Some people have no problem carrying a G19 all day in a IWB holster and you may be one of them. However, other cannot and would rather have a little Ruger LCP they can slip into their front pocket. Only you can decide what is best for you. The only thing to do once you know how large a pistol you can carry comfortably all day is choose the best quality gun you can afford, find a suitable holster for it, start carrying and practice as often as you can with it.
Good luck on your search for your perfect gun.
Glock 19 is usually the default answer to your question, for good reason. If people leave it for something else, it's usually because they find something that fits them better ergonomically. Glocks are just shaped weird. That being said, there are tons of people that shoot them extremely well, it just takes practice.
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^^This.
With practice, which everyone should do frequently with their carry choice, a G19 is an excellent handgun and they are very accurate. Sure they're ugly but they work. They size and weight makes them easily concealable with 15 rds of extra confidence.
I have a decent 9mm collection, VP9-P320C-XDM9-STI Eagle for fun-CZ SP01 and PCR, and a CZ 2014 P07(another good, economical choice if you want SA/DA) all of which I have carried from time to time, well not the STI. I always end up going back to the Glock. The 19 hides away nicely for me in a good IWB or OWB holster. Again, not the prettiest gun but maybe the most practical, IMO of course. Glock aftermarket support is unmatched. Both of my sons now carry Glocks and they have plenty of choices, basically anything in my gun safe.
On the other hand, a P229 aint bad either. Just a little heavier and a tad more difficult to conceal.
A G19 is like a 1911 in that everyone should have a least one.
With practice, this could be you.:smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z2w5VlPo3Y&index=2&list=PLTNASFV4l4RiWRhsaHtdmlKVGiArFARGL
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Doing this research is practical but remember (for right now) if it ain't what you like...sell it and try another one. Good thing about a gun is "they don't spoil" & go bad.
But maybe it's just me...
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Be honest about your willingness to carry daily.
In order of importance, I'd consider these factors:
1.) Grip length (shorter is easier to conceal)
2.) Width (thinner will be more comfortable in most situations)
3.) Weight (lighter is better)
The primary issue (in my opinion) with concealing guns day to day is grip length. The thinner the frame, the less you'll notice it shoved down your pants. The lighter it is the more likely it is you won't mind toting it to the Piggly Wiggly.
The G19 is the default choice because it can do everything well (fight and conceal). Double stack 9mm Compacts are good general purpose guns in that respect, but they're still wider and heavier than some other options and if it's at home in the night stand when you need it, it's not doing you any good. You should handle some of these before committing. If you will commit to carrying it every day and adjusting your lifestyle to fit the gun, a compact's a good choice. If not (and be honest) you may want to consider a G43, PPS, Shield or even a J-frame. Rule #1 of a gunfight is to have a gun.
Be honest about your willingness to carry daily.
In order of importance, I'd consider these factors:
1.) Grip length (shorter is easier to conceal)
2.) Width (thinner will be more comfortable in most situations)
3.) Weight (lighter is better)
I bought and carry a Walther PPS precisely because I found my G19, and therefore my PPQ and my VP9, to be big enough, thick enough, and with a long enough grip that it was impractical to carry regularly. The slim profile of the PPS works perfectly for me and is much less obtrusive to wear.
Great advice in this thread.
I will recommend a Glock 19 as well. (What I've carried the most)
If that's too big consider the S&W Shield 9mm, Glock 43, Walther PPS and Ruger LC9S Pro. (Take note even these guns are too big for pocket carry/pocket draw)
If you want a revolver consider the Ruger LCR .357 magnum. In my opinion these have a much better trigger than the S&W J-frames and the Hogue grip it comes with has a gel pack in it for much more comfortable shooting. My wife can put 50 rounds of 125 gr +p .38 specials through it without a worn hand or trigger finger.
This revolver can be carried in a belt holster or in a pocket holster.
congrats and take the advise from all the previous safety precautions our members are giving you.
The worst "Opps" is the one you cannot say because you're dead!
I see now you got the pps. Good choice congrats!
At least go to a gun shop and try to hold a few in your hand. It sounds like you're talking about a Walther PPQ, HK VP9, or Glock 19. My preference has been the PPQ or the VP9 - I have come to vastly prefer a pre-cocked striker and its resultant superior trigger pull. Even those pistols, including the Glock 19 are too bulky for comfortable concealed carry IMHO and my preference for CC has been a single-stack sub-compact (Walther PPS). You could look at the Sig P226 if you want a double action pistol (I recommend against it). There are a few others, maybe a Sig P320, and you're going to get a ton of responses with people promoting their favorite pistols. I predict that the Glock 19 will come up a lot in this thread. I personally would never own any Glock ever again, but you should shoot one and see if you like it.
Out of curiosity why would you never own another Glock?
Noodle - first of all, thank you for making the decision to take responsibility for your own safety. Here are some of my thoughts on the subject, in no particular order:
1. Manual safety. As mentioned above, this is a touchy subject. You'll get everyone from the (lifts index finger condescendingly and growls like an OPERATOR) "THIS is my safety" to the "you'll kill yourself on the first draw if you don't have a safety!" folks. In reality, MOST modern, quality self-defense pistols DON'T have manual safeties, because they have multiple redundant passive safeties built in. Doesn't mean a pistol with a safety is a BAD choice, just that it probably shouldn't be a deal-breaker. If it is, you're going to severely narrow your choices.
2. Action type. DA/SA, SAO, Striker, DAO, DAK, LEM - whadda ya want? There are an enormous number of trigger actions to pick from.
(a) DA/SA offers a long, deliberate heavy trigger pull for the first shot (some would say, erroneously IMHO, that this is a "safety" feature), followed by a short, light, usually crisp trigger pull for all follow up shots. DA/SA transition is an issue, but certainly something you can train through easily with the right instruction and dedication. For a newer shooter, the larger issue, for me, is the requirement to decock the pistol after shooting to "make it safe" to reholster. This step gets missed with distressing frequency by "experienced" law enforcement shooters, and, when all that's between you and a loud banging noise is that SA trigger press - "dis is prohblehm". For a competent, well trained shooter, not an issue, and the DA/SA combination is definitely worth a look.
(b) SAO - short, light, crisp single action trigger pull on every shot - what's not to love? The 1911 epitomizes the advantages of this trigger - there's a reason why most "raceguns" are built on 1911 platforms. For a novice shooter looking for an SD pistol, this ease of shootability might not be a great thing. Once the manual safety is disengaged, all that stops you from shooting is about 4 pounds of crisp pressure on a VERY short movement.
(c) Striker - the current "king of the hill." Glock, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP9, on and on, all have striker fired triggers. These are the great "middle men" - a medium length take up with medium pull weight to a medium weight break and a short reset. These are very easy to learn to shoot, based on a decent trigger, and a consistent trigger action (no need to learn more than one trigger pull). Some strikers (M&P for one) are available with manual safeties, if that makes a difference.
(d) DAO - imagine a DA/SA gun with no SA capability - long, heavy trigger pull every shot. Definitely not the action you want if you're looking to break speed records, and, generally, pretty hard to find nowadays (with good reason).
(e) DAK - Sig's proprietary DAO trigger - same long trigger pull, but the hammer spring is pre-tensioned so the pull is a little lighter. Typical DAO triggers run around 12#, the DAK is around 8#. It has some fleas, which I won't get into right now - but if you think you'd like a Sig, I'd be happy to discuss
(f) LEM - HK's proprietary DAO trigger. Except it's not really DAO at all, as the hammer is actually pre-cocked, but appears to be forward. Requires a long, light trigger take up to a medium weight break - then a mid-length reset and repeat. It's hard to explain, you'd really have to shoot one to get a feel for it. Again, some people LOVE it, I've never really been able to warm up to it.
3. Brands - fuggedaboudit. Too many to discuss.
4. Caliber - here I can give you some definitive input. Get a 9mm. Period. There's nothing a good 9mm JHP can't do that any other common SD caliber can; and you'll get more capacity, less recoil, and less wear and tear on your pistol. There's a reason why FBI/DHS, and countless local and state LE agencies are leaving the 40 and returning to 9mm.
5. Size - as a first carry pistol, I'd strongly suggest a "mid size" pistol - again, the G19 is the standard against which all others are compared. Sub compact guns are cool and all, but generally a LOT harder to shoot well, and, when you're just starting out, the last thing you need is a pistol that's hard to get good results with on the range. In the G19-ish size range are the CZ P07 (DA/SA), Sig P229 (DA/SA or DAK), HK P2000 (DA/SA or LEM), Beretta PX4 Compact (DA/SA or DAO), and probably some more that I'm forgetting.
I'm lucky enough to work for an agency with a very "liberal" personal firearms policy, that authorizes me to carry on duty any 9mm, 40, .45 or .38 Special from any of about 19 different manufacturers, with some very minor limitations (at least 3" barrel on autos, minimum 5 round capacity). I'm issued a Sig P229R DAK in 40, I carry a Gen4 G19, with a Gen4 G26 on my ankle as a BUG. I HATE everything about the GLOCK - the way it looks, the way it feels in my hand, the way it points, the trigger, EVERYTHING - UNTIL I get to the range. Then I can shoot it more accurately at speed, with better control, than anything else I've ever tried. Sure, I can shoot smaller groups in deliberate slow fire with a 1911, or HK P7, or P2000, but not "smaller enough" to give up the shootability of the GLOCK. And, I'm always looking for something (ANYTHING) to be the GLOCK killer, and, despite a LOT of time, ammunition and money spent in trying to find it, I always end up back with the G19.
Others have had the same experience, some have dumped the G19 for the new Sig P320, or the HK VP9 (both strong choices, from what I see).
Hope this helps, and please feel free to ask more questions.
This is all good information. Thanks for taking the time to write such an informative post. Well done sir.
If you decide you really like the Glock platform but would really prefer a safety there are 2 of that I know out on the market. A Siderlock, and a frame safety that I can't remember. Something like Canolli?
I respectfully disagree, but your desire for a safety doesn't stop you from having plenty of good choices: Browning Hi-Power, Beretta 92, and a bevy of options from CZ, Colt, and HK. Of those, I'd look long and hard at the HK P30. You can set that thing up a lot of different ways.
Okie John
Don't forget to add the FNX9 as well as the FNS9. Almost identical in size to a Glock 19, but they have safeties.
Out of curiosity why would you never own another Glock?
I found the grip blocky and compartively uncomfortable. The trigger was mushy - worst trigger of any gun I own, even with polishing and a 3.5 connector. The thing would eject ("dribble" might be a better word) shells right or left randomly, except for the 2 out of 5 that it would launch directly at my face. I called Glock on 3 occasions, they basically said "your problem". I replaced the ejector, the extractor, recoil springs...no help. Finally solved it with a $75 kit from Apex. I'll never own another one, not when there are so many vastly superior alternatives out there.
(c) Striker - the current "king of the hill." Glock, M&P, Sig P320, HK VP9, on and on, all have striker fired triggers. These are the great "middle men" - a medium length take up with medium pull weight to a medium weight break and a short reset. These are very easy to learn to shoot, based on a decent trigger, and a consistent trigger action (no need to learn more than one trigger pull). Some strikers (M&P for one) are available with manual safeties, if that makes a difference.
The only thing I would add to the striker discussion is that they come in two flavors - pre-cocked as in the PQ or VP9, which leads to a crisp single-action trigger pull every time, or the Glock method as seen in almost all of the other striker-fired handguns wherin the striker is only paritally cocked and the semi-double-action trigger pull cocks it the rest of the way before let-off. IMHO, that second method results in a tendency towards a mushy trigger.
I found the grip blocky and compartively uncomfortable. The trigger was mushy - worst trigger of any gun I own, even with polishing and a 3.5 connector. The thing would eject ("dribble" might be a better word) shells right or left randomly, except for the 2 out of 5 that it would launch directly at my face. I called Glock on 3 occasions, they basically said "your problem". I replaced the ejector, the extractor, recoil springs...no help. Finally solved it with a $75 kit from Apex. I'll never own another one, not when there are so many vastly superior alternatives out there.
I agree Glock grips feel "blocky" initially but they don't negatively impact shooting (and could argue the increased grip angle helps lock the wrists). You get used to the "feel" of the grip, with any gun. The subjective grip feel doesn't determine results on the timer/paper, IMO, you need a way to test it objectively (i.e. standardized tests/on a timer). Also, the grip of the Glock allows me to get higher on the gun than any other I own, so that's a definite plus.
The "mushy" trigger to me is an asset. The ability to roll through the break without a hard defined wall may feel strange initially but makes the gun easier to shoot at speed.
I had a BTF/FTE prone gun, called up Glock, described the problem, asked for a shipping label and they provided one. Got the gun back in ~3 weeks and it ran. While I don't believe their CS is on par with some other companies, in my experience it worked.
So, everyone has different experiences. However, the subjective feel of triggers and grips, etc. is not helpful in determining actual performance results. You've got to put it into objective criteria that can be measured. Looks and feel can be deceiving.
I guess the OP never came back.
To answer his question, it 'seemed' that he was after a Glock 19 or equivalent with the "I'll shoot it often". BUT, if it is a carry gun, it needs to be a gun he WILL carry. Plenty of folks carry G19s, G17s, 229s, etc. etc., but when I wanted a gun "I WOULD carry" (e.g.- easily concealable in almost ANYTHING), I got a Kahr PM9. While I don't shoot it as often as I should, it IS fun to shoot. The Shield and PPS are also, and they are VERY concealable - and they beg to be carried.
So, everyone has different experiences. However, the subjective feel of triggers and grips, etc. is not helpful in determining actual performance results. You've got to put it into objective criteria that can be measured. Looks and feel can be deceiving.
I'm not proposing that my subjective observations in any way represent objective criteria. They are merely my opinions, offered when someone asked me specifically why I didn't like my Glock 19.
Yes, I could "get used to" a mushy trigger and a 2x4-shaped grip, but while I was futzing with that disappointing G19, I found a handgun (PPQ) that met ALL my criteria for an effective pistol FOR ME. Later, I was able to find a second one that worked just as well and maybe a little better FOR ME (VP9). Fortunately, I was able to unload that G19, even after full disclosure of it's ejection foibles and that it required an aftermarket fix in order to be a functional firearm.
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