View Full Version : You have until Dec 21 to register your Drone
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-14-15, 17:45
Drone...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2561476&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Click%20here%20to%20learn%20more.&utm_campaign=FAA%20mass%20email
Looks like over 1/2 a pound, which believe it or not the govt defines as two sticks of butter in their FAQ page.
Look for the Anti's to say that if we have to register drones, why can't we register all the guns...
Registration is required for small unmanned aircraft (UAS) weighing more than 0.55 pounds (250 grams) and less than 55 pounds (approx. 25 kilograms).
Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors.
Owners may register through a web-based system at www.faa.gov/uas/registration.
Registrants will need to provide their name, home address and e-mail address. Upon completion of the registration process, the web application will generate a Certificate of Aircraft Registration/Proof of Ownership that will include a unique identification number for the UAS owner, which must be marked on the aircraft.
Owners using the model aircraft for hobby or recreation will only have to register once and may use the same identification number for all of their model UAS. The registration is valid for three years.
The normal registration fee is $5, but in an effort to encourage as many people as possible to register quickly, the FAA is waiving this fee for the first 30 days (from Dec. 21, 2015 to Jan 20, 2016).
And some examples:
http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/media/UAS_Weights_Registration.pdf
So it looks like true toys will not have to be registered, but the even mid size ones will.
Lots of fun living in a hole and not knowing that your RC plane isn't a registered weapon of mass distraction-
http://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?
A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.
Ouch, you might as well put a suppressor on it...
And the next step is to close the 0.55 pound loop-hole exemption.
Q. Is there a citizenship requirement?
A. Only United States citizens can register their small UAS. The certificate serves as a certificate of ownership for non-citizens, not a registration certificate.
RACISTS!!!!!
Q. If a drone crashes in my yard what do I do?
A. Call local law enforcement.
UHMMM, that ups the stakes on my rc plane getting blown like it did earlier this year! They going to start cordoning off areas and calling in SWAT?
LOL. Thanks for the heads-up. Not sure what good it will do as it will only be useful to government after-the-fact, but I'll register.
Outlander Systems
12-14-15, 17:56
Please correct me.
I was under the impression that:
Drone: autonomous flight
RC-Aircraft: under operator control
What am I missing here?
wildcard600
12-14-15, 17:59
Please correct me.
I was under the impression that:
Drone: autonomous flight
RC-Aircraft: under operator control
What am I missing here?
I dont believe you are missing anything. The clowns writing these laws, however do seem to be missing something.
You have until Dec 21 to register your....Drone...
Uh,
Registration is required for small unmanned aircraft (UAS) weighing more than 0.55 pounds (250 grams) and less than 55 pounds (approx. 25 kilograms).
Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-14-15, 18:15
I haven't delved into it. I think it is any remote or self controlled aircraft over .55lbs. The ones they show that are exempt are exempt because of their low weight, not because it is non-autonomous.
I meet for coffee with a few retired guys 5 days a week. Three of them are pilots who have been discussing drones for as long as I can remember. All of them abhor unnecessary regulation of anything, motor vehicles, firearms, etc. A week does not pass without one of them mentioning a near collision between a drone and an aircraft in the process taking off or landing.
As with anything else that has the propensity for taking human life when misused by irresponsible individuals, regulation of the device is not unexpected. This would apply to motor vehicles or any other potentially hazardous device.
You can thank those who found it amusing to fly drones near flying aircraft for increased regulations. They are primarily responsible for new regulations that would not otherwise be required.
SilverBullet432
12-14-15, 18:47
Next: register your guns we need to identify gun owners too :sarcastic:
in 3 years can see the well its now $150
the next 3 years will be $250 to register
and after that $500 and we decided you need to go to have a special pilots lic and doctors approval
echo5whiskey
12-14-15, 19:17
in 3 years can see the well its now $150
the next 3 years will be $250 to register
and after that $500 and we decided you need to go to have a special pilots lic and doctors approval
You're onto something there.
Outlander Systems
12-14-15, 19:20
A buddy of mine is a pilot, and when I told him about FPV/RC Aircraft, his hair immediately caught fire.
I would love to get into FPV; I'd even be willing to get licensed if it was required.
I ran into some dudes flying aircraft using FPV, and they let me check it out. Totally incredible; totally fantastic. I was struck with a childlike awe over it.
Those hovering quadcopter things? Nah. Give me a Skywalker X8 and I'd be good.
I meet for coffee with a few retired guys 5 days a week. Three of them are pilots who have been discussing drones for as long as I can remember. All of them abhor unnecessary regulation of anything, motor vehicles, firearms, etc. A week does not pass without one of them mentioning a near collision between a drone and an aircraft in the process taking off or landing.
As with anything else that has the propensity for taking human life when misused by irresponsible individuals, regulation of the device is not unexpected. This would apply to motor vehicles or any other potentially hazardous device.
You can thank those who found it amusing to fly drones near flying aircraft for increased regulations. They are primarily responsible for new regulations that would not otherwise be required.
Outlander Systems
12-14-15, 19:21
Roger that. Sounds par the course.
I dont believe you are missing anything. The clowns writing these laws, however do seem to be missing something.
Uh,
Registration is required for small unmanned aircraft (UAS) weighing more than 0.55 pounds (250 grams) and less than 55 pounds (approx. 25 kilograms).
Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors.
In before we find out the FAA system can't handle the traffic volume well enough to meet their own deadline...
in 3 years can see the well its now $150
the next 3 years will be $250 to register
and after that $500 and we decided you need to go to have a special pilots lic and doctors approval
You sir, understand federal bureaucracy, perfectly. :(
Mauser KAR98K
12-14-15, 19:33
So this mean that stand RC planes and copters also need to be registered.
Wonder if this will kill the RC hobby.
A buddy of mine is a pilot, and when I told him about FPV/RC Aircraft, his hair immediately caught fire.
Some of the people I see at the same restaurant are members and on the Board of Directors of a sizeable R.C. Aircraft club. Their opinions concerning regulations on drone operators are mixed.
I defer to those who are more knowledgeable about the issue concerning the need for regulations. My primary concern is that one of my family members does not die in a commercial airline crash caused by an irresponsible drone operator.
So this mean that stand RC planes and copters also need to be registered.
Wonder if this will kill the RC hobby.
I doubt it. Some of the RC geeks will be excited to have a real deal "aircraft" registration for their RC.
So, people like to fly drones near airports, endangering hundreds of lives? Pretty stupid.
Thankfully, gun owners are generally much smarter than that. Ten commandments and all.
My primary concern is that one of my family members does not die in a commercial airline crash caused by an irresponsible drone operator.
My primary concern is that one of my family members doesn't die because of some irresponsible gun operator.
We'd better pass more stringent laws regulating those guns and while we're at it, lets tax the owners.
It's OK because it's only $5 per gun owner but we'll create a national database of gun operators in the process.
Hmmm....notice any parallels here?
SilverBullet432
12-14-15, 20:20
in 3 years can see the well its now $150
the next 3 years will be $250 to register
and after that $500 and we decided you need to go to have a special pilots lic and doctors approval
Primo, where have you been?!
Next: register your guns we need to identify gun owners too :sarcastic:
I bet more drone owners refuse to participate in registration than gun owners. I wouldn't register my drone if I had one.
SilverBullet432
12-14-15, 21:18
I wouldn't either. Lol. I had that cheap yellow RC plane from harbor freight when I was a kid. Crashed that bitch onto a roof :dirol: How i got my flight simulator student pilot certificate: beats me plane was sideways when I landed it ...
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-14-15, 21:24
So this mean that stand RC planes and copters also need to be registered.
Wonder if this will kill the RC hobby.
I was just looking at some weights. For the 'micro' airplanes that are very common and around $100, they are often in the 50-100gram range. So not an issue. It seems once you get to about a 2 foot wingspan, then you are looking at the 250 gram level. So for most people flying the smaller park style fliers won't be affected. I think of it as the .22lr of the hobby are fine.
I don't have helicopter weights handy, but I think anything with multirotors will push that weight fast.
The smaller hobby planes are all foam, a pager vibrator as a motor and a 3.7v LiPo battery- not much. A multirotor has multiples of that engine and a frame- all getting heavier. Then if you add a camera, and a battery, electronics and antenna- you are starting to get heavy.
That's just my quick analysis.
I still don't know about kites that weigh over .55 lbs.....
SilverBullet432
12-14-15, 21:31
I was just looking at some weights. For the 'micro' airplanes that are very common and around $100, they are often in the 50-100gram range. So not an issue. It seems once you get to about a 2 foot wingspan, then you are looking at the 250 gram level. So for most people flying the smaller park style fliers won't be affected. I think of it as the .22lr of the hobby are fine.
I don't have helicopter weights handy, but I think anything with multirotors will push that weight fast.
The smaller hobby planes are all foam, a pager vibrator as a motor and a 3.7v LiPo battery- not much. A multirotor has multiples of that engine and a frame- all getting heavier. Then if you add a camera, and a battery, electronics and antenna- you are starting to get heavy.
That's just my quick analysis.
I still don't know about kites that weigh over .55 lbs.....
Be careful with those lipos now. Don't you know all those "hoverboards" catching fire are dangerous?! :sarcastic: Its been well documented for over 10 years that lithium batteries are dangerous why all the fuss all of a sudden? Back then I had a radioshack XMOD. The aftermarket LiPoly's were dangerous as fu** houses would burn down...
I don't understand.
If idiots flying their toys to close to passenger aircraft, or crashing in neighborhoods are to blame for this, how does registering a UAV solve anything?
Tomorrow I will go out and fly across the local airport again, $5 dollar fee or no....
I think Honu whacked it pretty hard on the head.
Once again, it's not about "safety" it's about restriction.
I also notice that, according to the pdf list, it seems the registration threshold begins right about at the point the aerial vehicle can carry a decent functional camera....
https://memecrunch.com/meme/3XVBZ/but-that-s-none-of-my-business/image.png?w=400&c=1
More government oversight.....wonderful
I don't understand.
If idiots flying their toys to close to passenger aircraft, or crashing in neighborhoods are to blame for this, how does registering a UAV solve anything?
Tomorrow I will go out and fly across the local airport again, $5 dollar fee or no....
I view it as being the same as pointing a laser at an aircraft canopy while the aircraft is in flight. In my opinion, it would be more practical to locate the people flying drones close to civil aviation in flight and charge them criminally. It would be easy to obtain a Grand Jury criminal indictment for Reckless Conduct, so no one could argue there are no laws to address the issue.
echo5whiskey
12-14-15, 21:49
Does this include the drones in one's household who blindly vote for Dems?
Does this include the drones in one's household who blindly vote for Dems?
If you make reference to Democ-Rats, someone may take offense.
echo5whiskey
12-14-15, 22:06
If you make reference to Democ-Rats, someone may take offense.
Oh? ...meh
I bet more drone owners refuse to participate in registration than gun owners. I wouldn't register my drone if I had one.
"If you like your Drone, then you can keep your Drone!"
So many Federal laws, I wonder how much time for removing the tags from mattress?
SilverBullet432
12-14-15, 22:27
"If you like your Drone, then you can keep your Drone!"
So many Federal laws, I wonder how much time for removing the tags from mattress?
Only the consumer may remove the tag lol.... Seriously though. Mattresses and couches are beyond combustible.
working non stop bud :)
will have to chat and catch up on life soon :) almost caught up with work sadly I got to much at one time though :)
about 4 more non stop days and then the scary no work for a month comes back :) and then I hope it comes back :) ahhhh the fun hahahahah
Primo, where have you been?!
I don't understand.
If idiots flying their toys to close to passenger aircraft, or crashing in neighborhoods are to blame for this, how does registering a UAV solve anything?
Tomorrow I will go out and fly across the local airport again, $5 dollar fee or no....
And never mind that there is a much easier solution. Dedicated radio frequencies for civie drones that can be jammed with a simple device that you put around restricted airspace. Then every time some dipshit flies his drone where it doesn't belong and it falls to the ground (probably on the other side of the fence) then eventually they will figure it out.
Im of mixed opinion on this. As a commercial airline pilot I sort of welcome it(and knew it was coming), although I dont think it will be effective until/unless the FAA actually goes after a few guys and assesses penalties. Laser incidents have dropped a decent amount since they sent a few guys to federal prison over it(the one in Cleveland some guy was lazing airplanes so they sent the police helo to find him and he lazed the police helo who followed the beam down with their IR camera right to his house). I have enough to deal with when flying approaches in busy airspace with other airplanes(that have transponders so I know where they are) than to be on the lookout for a drone that could cause severe damage to my airplane. So like I said, mixed opinions on this.
I keep hearing people talk about this like gun registration, but one is constitutionally protected(guns) and this one isnt so the government is free to regulate it all they want, whether you agree with it or not.
And from what I understand you are actually registering yourself and then you affix your number to your drone. So you could own 1000 drones, but you only register once and put your number on every drone that meets the requirements.
I am sure part of this is educational and there are guidelines on what airspace you need to stay in(Class G, which is generally below 500ft). The RC guys have stayed in their little box for decades, flown at dedicated fields, understand the airspace and are generally good guys and have never(from what little I know) been slapped with any kind of rules like this. The drone guys seem to not really give a flying **** and will fly their drones anywhere they want and damn anybody else and thats the issue. If all the drone guys had stayed below 500ft and stayed well clear of OBVIOUS approach paths of commercial airliners, nobody would have ever done anything about it. Start endangering thousands of lives by causing near misses with commercial air traffic and the hammer comes down. The drone industry was in on the rule making so its not just the FAA pushing this out all on their own. The FAA also in my experience with them is a pretty non-political agency as well. They dont care what political affiliation you are, they like to **** with everybody equally. "Hi I am with the FAA and I am here to help"...
Moose-Knuckle
12-15-15, 02:44
Anything . . . and I mean ANYTHING the Federal government touches only becomes more complicated and over all worse for wear. The giant drunk on power sees this as another way to make money as they do not produce any income themselves.
The R/C airplane crowd are the victims here. They were trucking along fine for decades without a hiccup then come some idiots with their R/C controlled UAV/drones/whatever and GoPros and ruin for everyone.
Kind of like the idiots that point lasers at commercial aircraft cockpits.
Outlander Systems
12-15-15, 05:50
http://youtu.be/oVrn7cHsPew
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-15-15, 06:26
And never mind that there is a much easier solution. Dedicated radio frequencies for civie drones that can be jammed with a simple device that you put around restricted airspace. Then every time some dipshit flies his drone where it doesn't belong and it falls to the ground (probably on the other side of the fence) then eventually they will figure it out.
I think the big advance has been the electronics. You can now put an Aurdino in an RC with a GPS and send it out for a route without having direct control. They call them drones but what I think they are very worried about is that they are actually lightweight cruise missiles. Throw in an anthrax or biological dispenser on one and you could cause a lot of terror. Maybe not a lot of damage, but a lot of terror.
Of course what Terrorist is going to register their drone? My guess is that they're going to try to track the parts used through some kind of covert program, and then come in and take people down. By so many of certain parts online and all of a sudden the feds will come knocking on your door. That whole argument about constructive intent will become interesting. When is something a drone? When you have all of the parts for it? How close to completion?
There is RC, then there is FPV, then there is autonomous drone. They can all look the same.
Anything . . . and I mean ANYTHING the Federal government touches only becomes more complicated and over all worse for wear.............
No one can argue with that statement. If the Federal Government set up an agency to manage the Mojave Desert, they would be over budget in a matter of days and run out of sand within 5 years.
Outlander Systems
12-15-15, 11:28
What about the Drone Show Loophole?
There was a ruling on Friday in a DC appeals court that actually went in the favor of freedom. Mr. John Taylor brought the suit asserting that it is not legal for the FAA to force owners of toy drones or "model aircraft" to register them with the government. He further stated that the whole system was bogus and failed to do anything toward the stated goal of "safety". In fact, in 2012, congress specifically stated that the FAA could not make any rules or regulation for "model aircraft" flown by regular hobbyists.
Personally, I am happy to see a little victory for freedom, but I fear what the retaliation will be from our now angry government masters.
I tried to post a link to an article, but apparently that is not allowed. My apologies to the membership and mod staff. This being the case, it is not hard to do a search and find your own link with all the details.
I'd love to hear everyone's take on the subject.
Digital_Damage
05-21-17, 08:54
Wouldn't need the rules if most Drone hobbyist were not complete dipshits....
We have to deal with them almost daily with people flying them into restricted locations. The amount of money we now have to spend to keep $100 toys out is ridiculous.
Wouldn't need the rules if most Drone hobbyist were not complete dipshits....
We have to deal with them almost daily with people flying them into restricted locations. The amount of money we now have to spend to keep $100 toys out is ridiculous.
Says the gun owner who doesn't want to just fill out a simple form and register all of his guns with the government. You know, for safety. If we just register them all, it will stop all dip shits and criminals from misusing them, right?
Most are dip shits? Wait… "complete dipshits"? Do you know how many millions of these things have been sold in America? If "most" of the people buying and using them were as bad as your perception, there would literally be a million reports of criminal misuse a day. Again, this sounds an awful lot like what "they" say about those scary AR15 machine guns with the giant capacity magazine clips and shoulder thingies that come up.
Now I know that some idiot somewhere has done something stupid with a drone, or an RC car, or an RC boat, but how big of a "problem" is this on a national scale. There is an often cited YouTube video of a commercial jet striking a drone in mid-air and wing damage is sustained. What is sometimes missed is the other video showing how the computer visual effects company made the footage using their knowledge and skill with the latest CGI technology. It never happened. I know at least a dozen people that own drones, and I fly mine almost daily. No one I know of has had a problem. No one I know is doing stupid stuff either intentionally or ignorantly. Do we really need the .gov to oversee our every action? Just like our guns, there are already laws in place to deal with criminal mis-use. If the .gov would actually enforce those laws against actual criminals, we'd all be a lot better off.
There was a ruling on Friday in a DC appeals court that actually went in the favor of freedom. Mr. John Taylor brought the suit asserting that it is not legal for the FAA to force owners of toy drones or "model aircraft" to register them with the government. He further stated that the whole system was bogus and failed to do anything toward the stated goal of "safety". In fact, in 2012, congress specifically stated that the FAA could not make any rules or regulation for "model aircraft" flown by regular hobbyists.
Personally, I am happy to see a little victory for freedom, but I fear what the retaliation will be from our now angry government masters.
I tried to post a link to an article, but apparently that is not allowed. My apologies to the membership and mod staff. This being the case, it is not hard to do a search and find your own link with all the details.
I'd love to hear everyone's take on the subject.
Good to hear. When they said they had the right to regulate anything that flies (including a paper airplane) their credibility when out the window. Hopefully a Trump FAA will have some more common sense.
HardToHandle
05-21-17, 09:40
Freedom? This is a public safety catastrophe being queued up. Then we will end up with a stupid amount of regulation, drone criminalization, etc.
There is metric shit ton of irresponsible, ignorant UAS users out there. The traditional barriers of cost and technological expertise meant model aircraft were overwhelmingly operated is a responsible manner until the Chinese discovered UAS. I grew up around Byron Godferson and appreciated old guys tinkering with foam or balsa planes. What was regulated as model aircraft 30 years ago is not comparable to today's $200 UAS from Target.
Today you can buy a DJI at big box store or order a Chinese direct UAS with unknown cyber compromises operating in spectrums that may or may not be correctly provisioned. You are helping to fund the PLA and maybe doing Intel gathering for them too.
The big risks are killing people. The UAS/rotor wing collision issues in Iraq are well known; this appeals court ruling makes it preordained in the U.S. We also are going to have people operating inside the regulated FAA five-mile airspace around airports, which will invariably result in a commercial manned aircraft being lost. I had two issues of incidents of illegal UAS operation inside the exclusion zone; local law enforcement did little and laughable FAA law enforcement follow up. The regs are not being enforced.
I flew four commercial flights last week. That is eight transitions through the UAS danger zone. When a regional jet comes down after a UAS through the engine, hopefully all the passengers and people killed on the ground are the "freedom" lovers and not innocent folks.
I am a right winger and spend most of my time minimizing the impact of government regulation. That said, there are compelling reasons why the U.S. began nearly-exclusive airspace regulation 80 years ago. The risk of undermining the airspace regulation has a strong likelihood of death, mostly to people who get zero return from the expressed "freedom". My biggest concern is that effectively ending regulation makes it harder for a prosecutor to prove deliberate indifference in the airliner crash scenario, which means the first 19yoa who brings a plane down will get a slap on the wrist. We are not going to get public compliance until a few people are harshly prosecuted for irresponsibility.... That is the American way.
Wouldn't need the rules if most Drone hobbyist were not complete dipshits....
We have to deal with them almost daily with people flying them into restricted locations. The amount of money we now have to spend to keep $100 toys out is ridiculous.
Using your same measurement methodology, no shortage of dipshitery among gun owners too. I'm sure that more regulations and registration will fix that problem just as effectively as you imply for drone hobbyists.
Freedom? This is a public safety catastrophe being queued up. Then we will end up with a stupid amount of regulation, drone criminalization, etc.
There is metric shit ton of irresponsible, ignorant UAS users out there. The traditional barriers of cost and technological expertise meant model aircraft were overwhelmingly operated is a responsible manner until the Chinese discovered UAS. I grew up around Byron Godferson and appreciated old guys tinkering with foam or balsa planes. What was regulated as model aircraft 30 years ago is not comparable to today's $200 UAS from Target.
Today you can buy a DJI at big box store or order a Chinese direct UAS with unknown cyber compromises operating in spectrums that may or may not be correctly provisioned. You are helping to fund the PLA and maybe doing Intel gathering for them too.
The big risks are killing people. The UAS/rotor wing collision issues in Iraq are well known; this appeals court ruling makes it preordained in the U.S. We also are going to have people operating inside the regulated FAA five-mile airspace around airports, which will invariably result in a commercial manned aircraft being lost. I had two issues of incidents of illegal UAS operation inside the exclusion zone; local law enforcement did little and laughable FAA law enforcement follow up. The regs are not being enforced.
I flew four commercial flights last week. That is eight transitions through the UAS danger zone. When a regional jet comes down after a UAS through the engine, hopefully all the passengers and people killed on the ground are the "freedom" lovers and not innocent folks.
I am a right winger and spend most of my time minimizing the impact of government regulation. That said, there are compelling reasons why the U.S. began nearly-exclusive airspace regulation 80 years ago. The risk of undermining the airspace regulation has a strong likelihood of death, mostly to people who get zero return from the expressed "freedom". My biggest concern is that effectively ending regulation makes it harder for a prosecutor to prove deliberate indifference in the airliner crash scenario, which means the first 19yoa who brings a plane down will get a slap on the wrist. We are not going to get public compliance until a few people are harshly prosecuted for irresponsibility.... That is the American way.
yada, yada, yada and the idiot FAA registration scheme solves none of these problems. Most folks ignore it.
The FAA, like most if not all other government agencies exists for one reason. To grow, become more powerful, and more restrictive. Like the over reaching EPA, their regs don't have to make any sense, nor address any issues. Yes, I hope Trump does the same thing to the FAA, as he is to the EPA, and other agencies, that are way too large, and way to powerful. These are entities that essentially make laws, with no representation of the people, nor are they typically held accountable.
It's a false argument. I am in favor of some regulation and the FAA losing. Congress is the appropriate place to debate the issue, not a Gov agency deciding what it feels like regulating.
Dist. Expert 26
05-21-17, 10:58
I'm all about freedom, BUT...
Just stop right there.
One can make a "public safety" argument for almost anything. Liberty doesn't come without risk. I for one am willing to live with said risk rather than rely on big brother to take care of me.
Averageman
05-21-17, 12:23
Rights come with Responsibilities, we never seem to come to a complete understanding of that.
sevenhelmet
05-21-17, 12:43
I have no problem with the FAA losing this one- it seemed like an overreach to me. That said, just like moron gun-owners who have negligent discharges that destroy property and endanger people, any misuse of a drone can and should result in the person responsible being held...wait for it... responsible. If you're flying your drone IAW proper airspace, clear of airports and restricted areas, and not violating anyone's privacy, e.g. not spying on your neighbors, then knock yourself out. I don't see why FAA licensing should be necessary in uncontrolled airspace. If you fly airplanes, keep your head on a swivel below 500 feet, and always have a plan, especially if you're single engine.
Anyone who honestly believes a consumer UAS is gathering intel for the PLA has undoubtedly already ditched the rest of their electronics, including their car, fridge, and TV if any of them have been made in the last 10 years, because those Chinese can hack anything. :rolleyes:
Seriously. The #1 consumer digital threat is to your wallet, and usually comes from right here in the USA. I seriously doubt the PLA or any other state-actor cares about aerial shots of your cousin's wedding or is listening to your latest argument with your wife over how much you spent on a new riflescope. There are much easier and less-risky ways to gather the intel they really care about.
Freedom? This is a public safety catastrophe being queued up. Then we will end up with a stupid amount of regulation, drone criminalization, etc.
Whoa. Easy Leonard…
A public safety catastrophe because we no longer have to get a little permission slip from some government alphabet agency? That seems a little dramatic to me. People have to pass a written and physical driving test to get a license. Does that stop any of the stupidity you see on the road daily?
During your four take offs and four landings last week, how many of the millions of quad-copters sold all over the US did you have to dodge to keep from crashing your aircraft and taking innocent unsuspecting lives? Any of your pilot friends dodging these things on a regular basis?
Another thing that as a pilot you could shed some light on for me/us: How is a 2 pound flimsy plastic toy going to cause a 747 to crash? Have you ever hit a bird? Sucked one into an engine? Seems like a 10 pound goose would pose a bigger danger than 2 pound toy, but I don't see jets crashing and innocent civilians dying on a daily basis in spite of the millions of large birds flying well within the 5 mile zones around the world's airports. This is not rhetorical. I'm really asking. I've flown all over the world. I was in the cockpit of an Airbus on a cargo flight when we took a big lighting strike. Pilots didn't even blink. "Happens all the time…" If our planes can withstand lighting, heavy winds, bird strikes, hail, rain, snow, etc…, how in your mind does one crash when… rather if, one were to actually make contact with a drone being flown by some dummy in a place where it shouldn't have been flying?
My point is this: Like all things media, this "problem" has been tremendously sensationalized and terribly over exaggerated. Is it physically possible for a drone to bring down a manned aircraft? I think it might be physically possible... But its also extremely unlikely. DJI has ben around since 2006 and there are now literally millions of drones flying in America's skies. Other quad copters were around before them. Other model aircraft have been around for decades. Stupid people do exist. Stupid people have always existed and always will. Yet with all the stupid people and all the millions of drones and other RC aircraft that have been in our skies for decades, there has not been one of these catastrophic crashes that you and other drone haters have predicted.
I fly on commercial aircraft on a regular basis for work. I've got to tell you, I am not the least bit concerned about a dumb kid, who doesn't have his government permission slip, with a 2 pound toy quad copter that is flying 4 miles away from the airport where I'm taking off and landing. Are you?
1. Registration does nothing good for a free people. Nothing. No safety, no security, no liberty to be had from that - it only favors the State and it's lovers.
2. The catastrophe being proposed hasn't happened.
3. Airlines need to figure out how to protect their engines if the UAS doomsday is truly upon us. The answer should not be, "oppress the other guy, we don't want to change!"
sevenhelmet
05-21-17, 12:56
1. Registration does nothing good for a free people. Nothing. No safety, no security, no liberty to be had from that - it only favors the State and it's lovers.
2. The catastrophe being proposed hasn't happened.
3. Airlines need to figure out how to protect their engines if the UAS doomsday is truly upon us. The answer should not be, "oppress the other guy, we don't want to change!"
Airliners have multiple engines, and can weather loss of a single engine whether it's due to mechanical malfunction or catastrophic failure due to ingesting something solid, like a bird or a drone. A drone would have to get really lucky (or be an intentional attack) to take down an airliner. Birds really are a bigger threat, but even birds taking down an airliner has only happened once in the last 15 years or so, and everybody survived. That said, it's just barely possible (and certainly dangerous) that a drone could cause a crash, so keep your drone the F away from airports or anywhere airplanes fly low! 'Nuff said. Drones near light civil air traffic are a whole other can o' worms, but licensing won't "fix" people being stupid, any more than it keeps criminals from getting illegal guns. Or how about those effing morons who shine lasers at aircraft? Should all lasers be licensed now? Nope, the morons just get reported, and arrested when they're found. It's a felony! Works for me.
If they can make a cell phone blocker, certainly they can make a drone signal blocker. Just set them up around airports and approaches and watch all unauthorized drones fall out of the sky. I personally have worried about some terrorist wannabe asshole trying to use a drone to bring down a plane, but again it seems the solution should be pretty easy.
Digital_Damage
05-21-17, 15:56
Says the gun owner who doesn't want to just fill out a simple form and register all of his guns with the government. You know, for safety. If we just register them all, it will stop all dip shits and criminals from misusing them, right?
Most are dip shits? Wait… "complete dipshits"? Do you know how many millions of these things have been sold in America? If "most" of the people buying and using them were as bad as your perception, there would literally be a million reports of criminal misuse a day. Again, this sounds an awful lot like what "they" say about those scary AR15 machine guns with the giant capacity magazine clips and shoulder thingies that come up.
Now I know that some idiot somewhere has done something stupid with a drone, or an RC car, or an RC boat, but how big of a "problem" is this on a national scale. There is an often cited YouTube video of a commercial jet striking a drone in mid-air and wing damage is sustained. What is sometimes missed is the other video showing how the computer visual effects company made the footage using their knowledge and skill with the latest CGI technology. It never happened. I know at least a dozen people that own drones, and I fly mine almost daily. No one I know of has had a problem. No one I know is doing stupid stuff either intentionally or ignorantly. Do we really need the .gov to oversee our every action? Just like our guns, there are already laws in place to deal with criminal mis-use. If the .gov would actually enforce those laws against actual criminals, we'd all be a lot better off.
Had this discussion before... your right to play with toys does not equal the right to keep arms...
Even trying to correlate the two is stupid.
Digital_Damage
05-21-17, 15:57
If they can make a cell phone blocker, certainly they can make a drone signal blocker. Just set them up around airports and approaches and watch all unauthorized drones fall out of the sky. I personally have worried about some terrorist wannabe asshole trying to use a drone to bring down a plane, but again it seems the solution should be pretty easy.
Because what can go wrong when you jam frequencies in and around airports...
HardToHandle
05-21-17, 16:01
Rights come with Responsibilities, we never seem to come to a complete understanding of that.
It's a false argument. I am in favor of some regulation and the FAA losing. Congress is the appropriate place to debate the issue, not a Gov agency deciding what it feels like regulating.
Congress told the FAA to develop the very regulations in question. They even directed the FAA to be working on a second, enhanced version in December 2015.
One of the best ways to lose democracy is rank ignorance - and letting an opinion prevent yourself from education.
Had this discussion before... your right to play with toys does not equal the right to keep arms...
Even trying to correlate the two is stupid.
Our "right" to keep and bear arms is not universally interpreted the way that you interpret it. That right is infringed on a routine, daily basis. That infringement is even codified in many states, and certainly so by the US Government. Next up...Universal Background Checks.
Because what can go wrong when you jam frequencies in and around airports...
Even if it was legal. Which of course it isn't.
Lots of statism going on here....
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
So does the FAA losing this case also mean someone who shoots a drone out of the sky isn't going to be charged with the federal crime of downing an aircraft now? I recall the FAA making that threat.
Because what can go wrong when you jam frequencies in and around airports...
They already do it around certain other government installations including some military airports. It's either that or pay the skeet club to enforce the airport perimeter. Personally I'd prefer the skeet solution but I don't see it happening. They could also have a fleet of attack drones but I don't see that being anything like 100% effective either. On the alternative I don't see registration really fixing the problem.
If people are going to be stupid enough to "hobby fly" near the airport, fines after the fact won't present a disaster or make other stupid hobbyist magically intelligent. Also won't do a single damn thing to prevent someone dedicated to a terrorist ideology from flying a drone and trying to bring down a plane.
If it's really about safety, you have to have a way of preventing drones from operating in these areas. So until someone comes up with a better plan than blocking the signal that is the best plan, registration will do NOTHING to prevent an incident. Cars are registered, doesn't prevent people from driving through Times Square, doesn't prevent people from driving under the influence, doesn't prevent people from using them to flee from the police nor does it prevent people from using registered cars from criminal activity of any kind. And if they swap out the plates, the registration becomes pretty useless for any "after the fact" resolutions unless they actually manage to stop the car or find it later.
Digital_Damage
05-21-17, 17:10
They already do it around certain other government installations including some military airports. It's either that or pay the skeet club to enforce the airport perimeter. Personally I'd prefer the skeet solution but I don't see it happening. They could also have a fleet of attack drones but I don't see that being anything like 100% effective either. On the alternative I don't see registration really fixing the problem.
If people are going to be stupid enough to "hobby fly" near the airport, fines after the fact won't present a disaster or make other stupid hobbyist magically intelligent. Also won't do a single damn thing to prevent someone dedicated to a terrorist ideology from flying a drone and trying to bring down a plane.
If it's really about safety, you have to have a way of preventing drones from operating in these areas. So until someone comes up with a better plan than blocking the signal that is the best plan, registration will do NOTHING to prevent an incident. Cars are registered, doesn't prevent people from driving through Times Square, doesn't prevent people from driving under the influence, doesn't prevent people from using them to flee from the police nor does it prevent people from using registered cars from criminal activity of any kind. And if they swap out the plates, the registration becomes pretty useless for any "after the fact" resolutions unless they actually manage to stop the car or find it later.
That plan is simply retarded on so many levels...
Take a few moments to think about what you are saying.
I'm going to assume you have been to the few locations out west that do that, and you know what the operating procedures are for those places. Tell me what does not work at those locations.
That plan is simply retarded on so many levels...
Take a few moments to think about what you are saying.
I'm going to assume you have been to the few locations out west that do that, and you know what the operating procedures are for those places. Tell me what does not work at those locations.
I'm talking about a few places I have been that were blocking all cell phone signals. Seems to me if you can do that safely, should be able to develop a way to block drone signals.
Because nothing else is going to "prevent" anything.
most idiots using basic drones the software is set to not allow flying in official no fly zones these days
you can get stuff that bypasses it ? and well fine if they get caught doing that they loose everything and go to jail !
the thing is many no fly zones are kinda like you cant carry a gun there ! and not really no fly zones
if we need to regulate anything its cell phones when driving ? (not saying do this just saying for arguments)
when drones start killing 11+ people daily I will say lets look at it !
again software of no fly areas is one way to control the basic idiots
just like in car technology to disable phone use in the driver area
technology not allowing drones is growing even using birds taking out drones and then again if caught in true no fly zones harsh fines and jail time
but when you are near a park and flying a drone and some over zealous ranger and his LEO buddy decide you are a hardened criminal for flying your drone near a waterfall ! that is over reach IMHO
if a idiot hits me with a drone then the law suit should be swift and massive $$ damage to the idiot flying the thing near people
again against hit the normal regular guy ! only hit those doing stupid things and hit them so freaking hard it will never happen again
waterfall at a park not a real danger !
flying near a airport ! pure idiocy !
Digital_Damage
05-21-17, 20:30
I'm talking about a few places I have been that were blocking all cell phone signals. Seems to me if you can do that safely, should be able to develop a way to block drone signals.
Because nothing else is going to "prevent" anything.
They are not just blocking cell and it does not work that way... two communities near by had to sue because their garage doors and keyless entry systems would not function. You can't just target "drones" in a wide area, you can only target frequencies and bands. Those frequencies operate in a spectrum that 80% of civilian wireless communication devices do.
They are not just blocking cell and it does not work that way... two communities near by had to sue because their garage doors and keyless entry systems would not function. You can't just target "drones" in a wide area, you can only target frequencies and bands. Those frequencies operate in a spectrum that 80% of civilian wireless communication devices do.
have you seen much on some of the new point type devices ?
I have only seen a few short things and never researched as I am not into it :) saw something that was a small dish type setup that they can point and disable drones ? no idea if its real or a idea etc.. but a pain to have to do but seems for some places a good idea to knock a drone out of the area safely
still thinkblocking of all channels in a wide area etc.. with some of the new medical devices being sensitive can see that being a bad idea incl the thing you mentioned above :)
again target small not wide sweeping :)
most idiots using basic drones the software is set to not allow flying in official no fly zones these days
you can get stuff that bypasses it ? and well fine if they get caught doing that they loose everything and go to jail !
the thing is many no fly zones are kinda like you cant carry a gun there ! and not really no fly zones
if we need to regulate anything its cell phones when driving ? (not saying do this just saying for arguments)
when drones start killing 11+ people daily I will say lets look at it !
again software of no fly areas is one way to control the basic idiots
just like in car technology to disable phone use in the driver area
technology not allowing drones is growing even using birds taking out drones and then again if caught in true no fly zones harsh fines and jail time
but when you are near a park and flying a drone and some over zealous ranger and his LEO buddy decide you are a hardened criminal for flying your drone near a waterfall ! that is over reach IMHO
if a idiot hits me with a drone then the law suit should be swift and massive $$ damage to the idiot flying the thing near people
again against hit the normal regular guy ! only hit those doing stupid things and hit them so freaking hard it will never happen again
waterfall at a park not a real danger !
flying near a airport ! pure idiocy !
Absolutely not.
I don't want .gov writing software for anything. I don't want Chevy et al. Disabling my cell when I get in my car.
As for the drones come to DC and fly one line of site into a myriad of any restricted areas and see how it goes. The police will find you and they will have a chat with you about it. You probably won't go to jail but you'll think twice before doing it again.
That being said, passing laws to mandate licensing and registration isn't going to stop ISIS from putting explosives on one and dropping into a crowd.
Get real people. Laws don't stop actions and behavior. In this context their only purpose is to expand the investigative authority of the gov to further and unnecessarily intrude into the lives of we the people.
Maybe we should have a no buy no drone list? Please...
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
sevenhelmet
05-21-17, 20:49
Targeted anti-drone efforts are definitely better than broadband jamming IMO, especially as crowded as the spectrum has become. A lot of drones work on Wifi frequencies, and I'm pretty sure everybody would get mad if those got jammed. Again, hold the owners responsible for their actions if they endanger someone or violate a secure area. Don't punish the entire crowd over the actions of a few.
NO I do not either :)
I am saying the companies are doing this now with legit and no flying zones by GPS :)
the thing just wont go into the zone :)
I was not saying have the gov do that no way :) hahaahahah
and agree I say no nothing !!!! but break the no fly zones for solid reasons as in air space near a airport you get in trouble !!! again target the bad guys not wide spread everyone kinda thing which is sadly what happens
Absolutely not.
I don't want .gov writing software for anything. I don't want Chevy et al. Disabling my cell when I get in my car.
As for the drones come to DC and fly one line of site into a myriad of any restricted areas and see how it goes. The police will find you and they will have a chat with you about it. You probably won't go to jail but you'll think twice before doing it again.
That being said, passing laws to mandate licensing and registration isn't going to stop ISIS from putting explosives on one and dropping into a crowd.
Get real people. Laws don't stop actions and behavior. In this context their only purpose is to expand the investigative authority of the gov to further and unnecessarily intrude into the lives of we the people.
Maybe we should have a no buy no drone list? Please...
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I got a cheap Amazon quadcopter for my birthday. I had no real issues with the registration. I though it was retarded and useless feel good mumbo jumbo typical of government. I'm on enough databases that my strategy isn't privacy but information overload [emoji6]
I'm no pilot, but I would think that if you are worried about an accidental downing of an aircraft you will be far more effective if you clear out bird habitats than keep a watch out for drones.
Purposeful attack of an aircraft is a different story, but then someone wanting to do that sure as shit isn't going to register or use ANY real information to do so. That means you're whole registration scheme is tits on a boar useful in protecting all those little children flying across the nation.
If as some have said, local LEO and the FAA police are useless in enforcing existing laws why do you think they will mysteriously become an excited Sherlock Holmes with these new regs.
Outlander Systems
05-22-17, 10:01
This.
It's on par with making murder and drugs illegal.
How's that working out, again?
That means you're whole registration scheme is tits on a boar useful in protecting all those little children flying across the nation.
Had this discussion before... your right to play with toys does not equal the right to keep arms...
Even trying to correlate the two is stupid.
Playing with my toys would fall firmly in the realm of "pursuit of happiness", which was so important that it was listed in the Declaration of Independence as an example of one of our three inalienable rights. The protection of our inalienable right to keep and bear arms was not added until later in the second amendment to the Constitution.
We are talking about two inalienable God given birthrights here. Both are supposed to be protected in our "free" country.
Correlating the two, comparing the two and equating the two is logical and valid, as far as this discussion goes. At least the founders of this country thought so, but what do they know right? There were no drones, AR 15s, cell phones or computers when they dreamed this all up, right?
I have 2 Phantom Pro's and I registered only 1, it was free and I even got a tail number. The FAA didn't require a serial number but wanted you to check a box that said "i have read and understand all the rules" which is to not fly over populated areas, forest fires, 5 miles near airports, 1 mile from helicopter pads, over emergency services, sports areas, government buildings, industrial complexes, highways etc. Texas Parks and Wildlife encourages the use of drones at several parks in Texas for the "birds eye view". I'm going to use one during my 4th of July fireworks show this year. I am going to fly as close to the artillery shells as possible. Its going to be like a B-17 flying through flak.
You'd better have a go pro on board when that goes down.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I have 2 Phantom Pro's and I registered only 1, it was free and I even got a tail number
You didn't read the rules. You don't register the drone...you register yourself. The number you were assigned covers all of your drones.
Lots of statism going on here....
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
People (almost all people) tend to be this way. What they love or are passionate about is a right and a freedom. What they don't like or don't care about is a danger and must be regulated.
Firearms, drones, cars, marriage, the internet. Take your pick. But the majority of people will find an argument to restrict or control something that opposes their preconceived notions.
People (almost all people) tend to be this way. What they love or are passionate about is a right and a freedom. What they don't like or don't care about is a danger and must be regulated.
Firearms, drones, cars, marriage, the internet. Take your pick. But the majority of people will find an argument to restrict or control something that opposes their preconceived notions.
A sad reality to be certain.
Freedom is scary to many..
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
sevenhelmet
05-22-17, 20:53
A sad reality to be certain.
Freedom is scary to many..
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Good. Freedom should be scary. Bring it on. It beats being a slave of the state any day, and twice on Sundays.
You didn't read the rules. You don't register the drone...you register yourself. The number you were assigned covers all of your drones.
I know, they didn't ask for my address or phone number, social security number or DL number, just my name. It was easy.
I know, they didn't ask for my address or phone number, social security number or DL number, just my name. It was easy.
Tell them you want your $5 back since what they did was clearly against the law.
Let me know how that goes...
This is what a registration looks like, this is for non- commercial (recreational) use, Small UAS Certificate of Registration. This is for my Phantom 3 Professional.
45719
45720
think I would delete that first pic with the number :)
This is what a registration looks like, this is for non- commercial (recreational) use, Small UAS Certificate of Registration. This is for my Phantom 3 Professional.
45720
I love how the FAA is still using laminating machines to produce official documents. Remember, these guys control all of U.S. airspace. :rolleyes:
I love how the FAA is still using laminating machines to produce official documents. Remember, these guys control all of U.S. airspace. :rolleyes:
im getting my fixed wing pilots license right now and some of the books published by the FAA are outdated as far as avionics. Technology is evolving faster than the FAA can keep up.
good example of what I am saying buy the software restricting things
https://fstoppers.com/drone/dji-announces-plans-cripple-unregistered-drones-177657
The news is actually a good move on DJI's part as the intention is to make sure all drones are programmed to comply with local flight regulations and restrictions
Digital_Damage
05-24-17, 13:00
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/drone-crash-during-padres-game-has-mlb-security-monitoring-situation/ar-BBBuiUx?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/drone-crash-during-padres-game-has-mlb-security-monitoring-situation/ar-BBBuiUx?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
I read the article. What is your point? Somebody did something they shouldn't have done with an object. Like so many others have already stated in this thread, go after the the perp of the dumb deed and leave me and the millions of people who did nothing wrong alone.
This is what freedom is. We all get to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but some A-hole might do something wrong with all this freedom. Punish the A-hole. Responsibility. We already have systems in place for this.
Can't believe I'm having a conversation like this on a gun forum... Of all the places where people should understand that criminal misuse of an object is not a reason to attempt to deprive millions of law-abiding citizens of their god-given rights and freedoms...
I read the article. What is your point? Somebody did something they shouldn't have done with an object. Like so many others have already stated in this thread, go after the the perp of the dumb deed and leave me and the millions of people who did nothing wrong alone.
This is what freedom is. We all get to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but some A-hole might do something wrong with all this freedom. Punish the A-hole. Responsibility. We already have systems in place for this.
Can't believe I'm having a conversation like this on a gun forum... Of all the places where people should understand that criminal misuse of an object is not a reason to attempt to deprive millions of law-abiding citizens of their god-given rights and freedoms...
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Fskd6c0DMLF-o3-SvGHnYQEsDg&pid=15.1&P=0&w=300&h=300
I support the last two posts in earnest.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
guy at ballgame needs to be in serious trouble
and nobody should have to be penalized for him being stupid !!!!
there should be a list of no-go's included in every UAV box that is sold and should list the laws and the fine and punishment if said laws are broken: that way there would be no ignorance of the laws. When I buy a gun, it comes with a lock and instructions on how to handle a firearm properly.
there should be a list of no-go's included in every UAV box that is sold and should list the laws and the fine and punishment if said laws are broken: that way there would be no ignorance of the laws. When I buy a gun, it comes with a lock and instructions on how to handle a firearm properly.
And that fixes stupid how exactly.
Like, it's a gun... That shoots bullets. If you shoot yourself or someone else it may result in a significant emotional event.
If you drone something stupidly it may result in a negative outcome.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
that link above and all the drone sites are talking about that announcement of DJI starting to disable your drone if you do not register !
again the companies are going to be doing this for no fly zones more and more and the thing is wont stop those hacking and going past but if you are doing that you are up to no good and hammer needs to come down
in some ways the auto no fly areas if they are legit are OK cause it will keep the stupid naive people out of flying in areas that are on that why list ? like certain parks
again out in the wilderness with nobody around I say no bans should be there ! certain memorials yeah ban em with folks around etc.. last thing I want to do at say Mt Rushmore is see drones flying all over the place
am I for this ? no but its happening and again maybe those saying OH I will just fly this drone up quickly to see more will be stopped !
Digital_Damage
05-25-17, 09:43
I read the article. What is your point? Somebody did something they shouldn't have done with an object. Like so many others have already stated in this thread, go after the the perp of the dumb deed and leave me and the millions of people who did nothing wrong alone.
This is what freedom is. We all get to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but some A-hole might do something wrong with all this freedom. Punish the A-hole. Responsibility. We already have systems in place for this.
Can't believe I'm having a conversation like this on a gun forum... Of all the places where people should understand that criminal misuse of an object is not a reason to attempt to deprive millions of law-abiding citizens of their god-given rights and freedoms...
You keep trying to link this to the 2nd, you are playing with a toy... That toy does not perform a critical function like self defense.
You have on one hand a toy that entertains children and young adults, on the other you have a critical tool that might be needed to save your or someone else's life. Try to get some perspective... the entitlement is getting a little thick in here.
the argument :)
well drones save lives and perform as tools also just like guns !
not all handguns provide defense ? very few and not very often for how many are owned
many are tools to help get a job done
many are toys and all folks do is go plinking a fun past time :)
some use both in there job to make a living !
farmers and other large land owners are using them more and more to control pests to head count and other things just like guns are used on a farm for various functions
rescue people are using them to save lives :) not as many as guns but they are saving lives
but they should not be compared to the 2nd !
and regulation is bogus !!!!
You keep trying to link this to the 2nd, you are playing with a toy... That toy does not perform a critical function like self defense.
You have on one hand a toy that entertains children and young adults, on the other you have a critical tool that might be needed to save your or someone else's life. Try to get some perspective... the entitlement is getting a little thick in here.
Your use of "entitlement" in this context reeks of statist entitlement. Driving on public roads is a privilege because the roads were built with public funds and there is a significant risk of death or great bodily harm. Even then, they're not registered with the federal government. Public funds did not build the air and sky. There are restrictions on specific airspace because of the risk of death or great bodily harm, but requiring a free citizenry to register with the .gov to use the free air and sky that is NOT restricted for safety, is asinine.
Do we require bill of sale only vehicles and their owners who use them for off road use only to be registered, simply because they could be used on public roads? No, we don't. Do we require any other "toys" or their owners to be registered with the federal government? No, we don't.
Simply put, your argument falls flat on it's face on multiple counts. until passenger aircraft are falling out of the skies because of drone collisions, you don't have a leg to stand on here. :(
Digital_Damage
05-25-17, 13:14
Your use of "entitlement" in this context reeks of statist entitlement. Driving on public roads is a privilege because the roads were built with public funds and there is a significant risk of death or great bodily harm. Even then, they're not registered with the federal government. Public funds did not build the air and sky. There are restrictions on specific airspace because of the risk of death or great bodily harm, but requiring a free citizenry to register with the .gov to use the free air and sky that is NOT restricted for safety, is asinine.
Do we require bill of sale only vehicles and their owners who use them for off road use only to be registered, simply because they could be used on public roads? No, we don't. Do we require any other "toys" or their owners to be registered with the federal government? No, we don't.
Simply put, your argument falls flat on it's face on multiple counts. until passenger aircraft are falling out of the skies because of drone collisions, you don't have a leg to stand on here. :(
So we wait until something like that happens... like banning laptops on international flights? How about the huge list of laws and restrictions placed on a facets of society. How about we just open the boarders and allow everyone to come in until the system falls apart and then we do something about it?
Most states require off road vehicles over a certain CC to be registered BTW....
wildcard600
05-25-17, 13:29
So we wait until something like that happens... like banning laptops on international flights? How about the huge list of laws and restrictions placed on a facets of society. How about we just open the boarders and allow everyone to come in until the system falls apart and then we do something about it?
Most states require off road vehicles over a certain CC to be registered BTW....
I don't think "off-road" means what you think it does. I know plenty of folks with "off-road" use vehicles that are not registered with anyone (other than maybe a private race sanctioning body).
So we wait until something like that happens... like banning laptops on international flights? How about the huge list of laws and restrictions placed on a facets of society. How about we just open the boarders and allow everyone to come in until the system falls apart and then we do something about it?
Most states require off road vehicles over a certain CC to be registered BTW....
Yes, we wait. All of those regs and laws were placed on the books specifically because people were actually harmed, not theoretically could be harmed. Point in fact, most of the laws and regs that are mala prohibita, aren't really necessary at all. If you hurt someone, there's already going to be a law or reg against that, so no need to pile on until no reasonable person could ever be expected to know every law or reg. Laws and regs covering the entry into the U.S. don't count, because they aren't directly applied to USPERS on U.S. soil.
As for your ORV registration, still a 10th Amendment right. The federal government has no rights, only permissions granted by the COTUS and The People. We'd all do well to remember that. :(
Digital_Damage
05-25-17, 13:35
I don't think "off-road" means what you think it does. I know plenty of folks with "off-road" use vehicles that are not registered with anyone (other than maybe a private race sanctioning body).
Quads, Dirt bikes, home built (OHV) do in fact have to be registered for most states.
Quads, Dirt bikes, home built (OHV) do in fact have to be registered for most states.
Is that really the point you want to stick with?
BTW, when you say "most", exactly how many out of 50 is that? My state doesn't, but then we're not a very statist state.
Digital_Damage
05-25-17, 14:14
Is that really the point you want to stick with?
BTW, when you say "most", exactly how many out of 50 is that? My state doesn't, but then we're not a very statist state.
I responded to a question specifically about the requirement to register OHV... Derp...Derp...
To answer your question... Most as in greater than half. Ironically most of the states that require it are red states (AZ,NV,UT).
The registration also is only reciprocal for states that also require registration. For instance you can't take your Texas ATV to Arizona and operate. But you could take your registered Arizona ATV and use it in Nevada.
wildcard600
05-25-17, 14:25
Quads, Dirt bikes, home built (OHV) do in fact have to be registered for most states.
Not talking about "dirt" vehicles.
Digital_Damage
05-25-17, 14:42
Not talking about "dirt" vehicles.
for your state (MO) if you fall into this category
"any motorized vehicle manufactured and used exclusively for off-highway use which is 50 inches or less in width, with an unladen dry weight of 1,500 pounds or less, traveling on 3, 4, or more non-highway tires."
has to be registered.
"any motorized vehicle manufactured and used exclusively for off-highway use which is more than fifty inches but no more than sixty-seven inches in width, with an unladen dry weight of two thousand pounds or less, traveling on four or more non-highway tires and which may have access to ATV trails."
You do not have to register.
Nevada for instance does not specify any characteristics, If you run it off road on public lands it has to be registered.
And those laws are bs too. Tax revenue that's all.
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
wildcard600
05-25-17, 15:00
for your state (MO) if you fall into this category
"any motorized vehicle manufactured and used exclusively for off-highway use which is 50 inches or less in width, with an unladen dry weight of 1,500 pounds or less, traveling on 3, 4, or more non-highway tires."
has to be registered.
"any motorized vehicle manufactured and used exclusively for off-highway use which is more than fifty inches but no more than sixty-seven inches in width, with an unladen dry weight of two thousand pounds or less, traveling on four or more non-highway tires and which may have access to ATV trails."
You do not have to register.
Nevada for instance does not specify any characteristics, If you run it off road on public lands it has to be registered.
Once again, not talking about something used on public lands or roadways. In this state in order to "register" a vehicle (other than a ATV/quad) requires it to pass a vehicle inspection, that's a bit of a problem when the vehicle in question does not have lights/blinkers/mirrors/horn. If I thought that I wouldn't get laughed out of pit lane when I go to the track later this summer I would ask some of the other dudes if they had ever heard of registering a race/track vehicle.
Simply put, your argument falls flat on it's face on multiple counts. until passenger aircraft are falling out of the skies because of drone collisions, you don't have a leg to stand on here. :(
agreeing with ya :)
I reckon this is a bit like illegal immigrants :) there are laws on the books already about air space around airports etc..
we just need to apply those laws to those breaking them !
just like a boat there are water way rules in certain areas and other areas are more open is the best analogy I can think of ?
again criminalize criminals not regular folk
Once again, not talking about something used on public lands or roadways. In this state in order to "register" a vehicle (other than a ATV/quad) requires it to pass a vehicle inspection, that's a bit of a problem when the vehicle in question does not have lights/blinkers/mirrors/horn. If I thought that I wouldn't get laughed out of pit lane when I go to the track later this summer I would ask some of the other dudes if they had ever heard of registering a race/track vehicle.
great analogy :) our race bikes we never did anything but race them ? maybe gravel pits but never took them out onto say OHV trails etc.. we had bikes and the old days Honda Odyssey :) for that and they had the OHV tags think it was OHV ?
If they can make a cell phone blocker, certainly they can make a drone signal blocker. Just set them up around airports and approaches and watch all unauthorized drones fall out of the sky. I personally have worried about some terrorist wannabe asshole trying to use a drone to bring down a plane, but again it seems the solution should be pretty easy.
the problem is a 'blocker' is like flooding or over powering. You would have to flood a spectrum of frequencies, and that's if the terrorists didn't use some other spectrum to communicate on.
You know when drive from one radio zone to the next and you stay on say 98.5 but the station starts picking up different music? If the new station increased their power teh 'take over' would be sooner. It would jam/block the other station sooner. So instead of you needing to be within 20 miles maybe now it would reach you 30 miles out.
The other type 'removal' of the unwanted would be akin to your graphic EQ. Pull down all the sliders but one. Of pull only one slider down. Either way you target a small spectrum but you need control over the receiver, which you won't have.
Those buildings you hear about that jam everything around them are also most likely a giant Faraday cage so all the power is going out to the perimeter and not back inside.
So it is kind of easy but it's not practical. That's why jamming devices are illegal to use. It's easy and it screws up everyone in the vicinity.
The notching stuff like the EQ, HAM guys do all day long, but they do it to their own radios so they can only hear what they want at any given time. Cable companies used to notch out premium content. the problem is you need to own all the gear to do that precision.
You keep trying to link this to the 2nd, you are playing with a toy... That toy does not perform a critical function like self defense.
You have on one hand a toy that entertains children and young adults, on the other you have a critical tool that might be needed to save your or someone else's life. Try to get some perspective... the entitlement is getting a little thick in here.
A right is a right. Government overreach is government overreach. Like you, I believe we the people have the right to keep and bear arms. Like you, I believe that the government should not be infringing upon those rights in any way. Unlike you, I also believe my quad copters, SCUBA gear, OHVs, and all my other toys, toys that I use in the pursuit of my own happiness, should also be free from government intrusion and control. One tool is not more protected than the other in my mind. If I misuse any of my toys or my firearms and harm someone else, then I should be held responsible. If not, I should be left alone. End of story.
I'm not linking this to the 2A. I'm equating it to the 2A.
Entitlement? May I ask a favor of you? Look that word up and read the definition. The entitlement in this thread, this forum and this country is, and should be extremely thick. I am entitled to enjoy my rights how I see fit. I am entitled to all of those rights, be they enumerated in the Bill Of Rights, The Constitution, or the Amendments to our Constitution. Entitled? I am absolutely, righteously, completely and whole-heartedly entitled to my God-given, inalienable, Constitutionally protected rights. So are you, and so is every American. For those born in other countries, sorry. Your rights are not as well protected as my rights. For those born in other countries that have legally immigrated to the U.S.A. Welcome to entitlement! You are now entitled to all your God-given birthrights, but be aware that some elements of our society don't think you should have all those rights, and they are plotting to undermine them and take them away from you and from me.
D.D., Let's all work together to stop the erosion of those rights, rather than encourage it. Name one of your hobbies or fun pastimes. I am sure there is something that you enjoy that a criminal or stupid person could mis-use and do harm to someone. Should we all start making suggestions for how you should be registered and restricted, and by which government agency? Are you going to do something stupid in a crowded stadium with your hobby that we should be pre-regulating to make sure you don't do it?
echo5whiskey
05-27-17, 18:12
I love how the FAA is still using laminating machines to produce official documents. Remember, these guys control all of U.S. airspace. :rolleyes:
There are still federal agencies that issue laminated LEO credentials. Nothing surprises me anymore.
I love how the FAA is still using laminating machines to produce official documents. Remember, these guys control all of U.S. airspace. :rolleyes:
My replacement pilots license is printed on a credit size card piece of plastic, just like my passport card. My drone registration thing is just a printed piece of card stock paper, but it's not like it's some kind of important government document.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.