View Full Version : How can I reduce the final break of my Gen4 G19 trigger pull? Update Post 20
Eurodriver
12-19-15, 21:14
I have Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4 G19s. By far, the Gen 4 trigger pull is the toughest. This is in spite of the Gen 4 having the highest round count.
I've thought about getting a minus connector, but most results say that swap alone will result in a "mushy" break. I love the trigger on my Gen 2, and I feel that the firmer break of the Gen 4 is limiting my precision at longer ranges (>25 yards) especially utilizing NVGs and an IR laser. I will take up the slack in the trigger and then can visibly see the laser start to "shake" as I try to slowly squeeze the round off. It requires noticeably more effort than my previous gen triggers.
I love everything about the OEM trigger and I want to keep it that way. The way it takes up, the reset distance, everything. I just want a little less effort to drop the striker (but still have a nice precise breaking point). Is there anything out there that would work?
tl;dr? What trigger, spring, connector, etc parts do I have to swap out to keep the trigger exactly as is but just slightly reduce the trigger break?
I feel foolish asking, but have you tried a Gen3 trigger bar in your Gen4 gun?
You might try a Wolff Comp spring kit. It does lower the pull quite a bit. It seemed to feel about the same as the stock Glock 34 springs just lighter. They list it as comp only, not for duty use but it has been reliable with everything I've fed through. It lists for $9 so if it's not what you want, you can move on without much pain.
What's the best way to improve a Glock Trigger? Buy a different pistol!!!
Haha... but seriously, try starting out with a Gen 3 Trigger Bar, different connector (made for a gen 3), and a Wolff 6lb Trigger Spring. Also, lube up all fire control related parts with a quality Grease (like Geissele includes).
There's really a whole plethora of different combos one could partake in, in search of a "good" Glock trigger.
I wouldn't get into lighter Firing Pin springs as you will most likely incur Light Primer Strikes, resulting in potential misfires.
A Glock OEM "-" connector really didn't improve any of my Gen 4s. There's also a ton of variance in how one certain Glock Trigger may feel compared to another. Slide-to-Frame fit affects this, not to mention dimensions of fire control parts.
I have Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4 G19s. By far, the Gen 4 trigger pull is the toughest. This is in spite of the Gen 4 having the highest round count.
I've thought about getting a minus connector, but most results say that swap alone will result in a "mushy" break. I love the trigger on my Gen 2, and I feel that the firmer break of the Gen 4 is limiting my precision at longer ranges (>25 yards) especially utilizing NVGs and an IR laser. I will take up the slack in the trigger and then can visibly see the laser start to "shake" as I try to slowly squeeze the round off. It requires noticeably more effort than my previous gen triggers.
I love everything about the OEM trigger and I want to keep it that way. The way it takes up, the reset distance, everything. I just want a little less effort to drop the striker (but still have a nice precise breaking point). Is there anything out there that would work?
tl;dr? What trigger, spring, connector, etc parts do I have to swap out to keep the trigger exactly as is but just slightly reduce the trigger break?
Try a 6lb trigger spring.
Most connectors, be it Glock minus, Ghost, etc will give a mushy feeling vs OEM due to the geometry change of the connector.
A heavier (6lb) trigger spring should assist you in the trigger pull and take a 1/2lb or so off. The break should remain very similar with just a little less effort required.
Harold
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Nightstalker865
12-20-15, 09:45
It isn't the cheapest option, but the Hackathorn trigger setup from Glocktriggers.com is pretty impressive. It comes with a couple different spring options to fit your individual preference.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/20/58399642688cd28c50ba2e6658289d6c.jpg
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OEM components only. Get several trigger bars and connectors and swap them until you find the best combination. Polish through repeated use. This will require the most effort, but will leave you with a reliable gun within factory spec.
If that doesn't get you there take the best combination of those components, lightly and expertly polish (knock the rough off) the pertinent surfaces. Not an internet ".25 trigger job" polish, do a quality job during which you check and recheck function and cruciform/striker engagement.
Gen 3 trigger bar for sure, it's an easy place to start at least. I went back and forth on the dot and minus connector. It's lighter with the minus but I like the cleaner break of the dot connector.
It isn't the cheapest option, but the Hackathorn trigger setup from Glocktriggers.com is pretty impressive. It comes with a couple different spring options to fit your individual preference.
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Man that sure is a pretty setup though...
I am issued a Gen 4 G17 for my Academy job and I am setting up a Gen 3 G17 for duty carry.
I should get my Gen 3 slide back from ATEi tomorrow, put my WOTG sights and test/qualify.
Since the Gen 4 will never be carried on duty, I put a Gen 3 trigger bar, "-" connector and judicious polishing.
While I have a much lighter and smoother trigger press, it does finish mushy compared to my Gen 3.
I do plan to return the factory original parts to the Gen 4 and see if it crisps the trigger break a bit for the next class in April 2016.
I have Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 4 G19s. By far, the Gen 4 trigger pull is the toughest. This is in spite of the Gen 4 having the highest round count.
I've thought about getting a minus connector, but most results say that swap alone will result in a "mushy" break. I love the trigger on my Gen 2, and I feel that the firmer break of the Gen 4 is limiting my precision at longer ranges (>25 yards) especially utilizing NVGs and an IR laser. I will take up the slack in the trigger and then can visibly see the laser start to "shake" as I try to slowly squeeze the round off. It requires noticeably more effort than my previous gen triggers.
I love everything about the OEM trigger and I want to keep it that way. The way it takes up, the reset distance, everything. I just want a little less effort to drop the striker (but still have a nice precise breaking point). Is there anything out there that would work?
tl;dr? What trigger, spring, connector, etc parts do I have to swap out to keep the trigger exactly as is but just slightly reduce the trigger break?
Just shoot it - make it your primary until you feel comfortable.
If you like it just the way it is, except the weight, any component you change is going to do more than just lower the felt weight.
I have multiple trigger assemblies for my pistols, my favorite is a '-' connector with a NY1 spring. You might try that.
Seriously though, at the most, you ought to be doing 6.5 pounds unless you have a NY trigger with a standard or dot connector.
Could it be that at distance you are trying too hard to get the perfect break and as a result are slowing your press?
PatrioticDisorder
12-20-15, 20:48
I put a Gen3 G17 trigger bar in with minus connector and apex ultimate plunger plus .25 cent trigger job to all my Gen4 Glock's and it makes for a very PPQish trigger, I guess if you want to call that "mushy" you could, I'd like to think of it as a "smooth" take up with a nice light break.
Like others have said, a Gen 3 trigger and polishing the parts that rub against each other, will go a long way.
The Glocktriggers.com kits might be nice, but man they bling those things up by polishing everything (most of which is pointless) until it looks like chrome.
I have the Glock Connector 5 in my 19 and like it quite a bit. I don't remember noticing any more mush, but it has been over a year since I've even handled it (which hurts my soul) so I could be wrong. Either way, it was a pretty cheap piece IIRC, so just trying a few different connectors may be your best bet. If you have Brownell's Edge, you can return the ones you don't like on them. I definitely didn't want to mess with sprigs or even polishing so that was a good fix for me.
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I put a "-" connector with a NY 1 trigger spring in mine, and I like it much better. Not mushy at all. Gun is gen 3, and new setup barely heavier than factory.
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Apex plunger with a ghost 3.5 trigger bar made my trigger in my G19 gen 4 pretty nice.
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Euro,
I went to a flat trigger with minus connector on my gen 4 19s.
I know you like the stock trigger itself, but I found less initial take up and a crisp break in my set up.
Apex plunger with a ghost 3.5 trigger bar made my trigger in my G19 gen 4 pretty nice.
Always wondered about the benefit of the apex plunger as it looks like stock with polished top.
The part that effects that aspect of the trigger is the striker spring. The problem with putting in a lower weight striker spring is it slows doen the fring pin/striker, which could result in light primer strikes. Buying a lightened striker from lone wolf or other vendors will help compensate for this. try dropping down to a 4.5 Ib spring first, but I wouldnt go lower than a 4lb spring.
I agree with you on the minus connector. People that recommend that have no clue what they are talking about. It feels like dog shit.
OEM components only. Get several trigger bars and connectors and swap them until you find the best combination. Polish through repeated use. This will require the most effort, but will leave you with a reliable gun within factory spec.
If that doesn't get you there take the best combination of those components, lightly and expertly polish (knock the rough off) the pertinent surfaces. Not an internet ".25 trigger job" polish, do a quality job during which you check and recheck function and cruciform/striker engagement.
This^^^^^. My experiences are the same. I've currently got 2 Gen. 3's and 2 Gen 4's. The "-" in the Gen 3's is my answer but the Gen 4's can be a little trickier. FWIW I was issued a Gen 3 in 2000 from Glock that had the "-" installed, which they won't do anymore. I'm near 25,000 rounds through it so am quite partial to the Gen 3 and "-" connector and try to duplicate it in my Gen.4's. Also as LEO I can't/won't use anything but OEM parts.
Eurodriver
12-27-15, 19:00
Thanks for all of the replies guys. I'll start sorting through new parts and see what works and what doesn't. I don't mind spending the money, but I certainly don't want to spend money to get something that doesn't work. It seems like it is more of a guessing game than anything else.
Could it be that at distance you are trying too hard to get the perfect break and as a result are slowing your press?
This may the case as well. I think also that because it is a laser I notice slight shaking during trigger squeeze that I wouldn't notice more with iron sights. Even still, the Gen4 requires noticably more force to break than my Gen2 and Gen3s.
Eurodriver
01-16-16, 18:28
Alright. I need a new trigger
I finally got my slide and RMR back from L&M. I went to the range today (incidentally it was the same day as a FL Hometown shoot over on TOS. Decent guys) and zeroed the RMR at 50 yards.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/DSC02099_zpscc6mxq7s.jpg
Specs:
Gen4 G19 stippled/finger grooves removed
Slide milled for RMR w/ RM07
Octane 9HD2 suppressor
Surefire X400V WML/IR Laser/IR Light
Storm Lake barrel
I noticed several things today.
1) Not all 9mm is created equally. My best groups were shot with Winchester super X 147gr. (Pic below) PPU, S&B, and other 115gr cheap ammo shot like shit. Think 3" groups at 25 yards. (Is that bad or good? I don't know. This is resting my hands on a sandbag with an RMR)
2) My trigger is really screwing me up. This was my best group of the day firing Winchester SuperX 147gr at 50 yards. You can see the vertical spread is less than an inch but the horizontal is all over the place. I simply can't pull the trigger cleanly enough to get a good group. It requires too much effort.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_4638_zpskslc5erb.png
So, first, is that group acceptable given the gun and how I was shooting? The black circle is about 5" in diameter. Should it shoot better? Worse?
Second, is there a trigger that would allow me to group better than this? I'm kind of abandoning the "I want it break like an OEM trigger" thing and I just want a very light, smooth trigger. What can I get that will work and won't require me to play around with parts? ZEV? Haley Strategic?
Lastly, I brought a few AIM PD Trade in Gen2s. One has what appears to be OEM Glock night sights on it and it shoots really low, almost 6" below POA (tip of front sight blade) at 25 yards. What can cause this?
Eurodriver
01-18-16, 08:03
Anyone? :moil:
1. You're shooting better than I probably ever will. Your 50 yard photo is more like the best I can do at 25 yards. Perhaps you've reached the accuracy limit with that gun and you. Another, otherwise identical gun, may shoot better/worse on a given day. You may need 25 to 100 identical Glock 19 guns to develop a statistical sample, yet there's still a human factor to cause variability.
2. What trigger which allows you to group better is on you. You're the expert for you.
3. You've just brought up an entirely different subject with Gen2 G19 guns. What causes a gun to appear to shoot low?
-shooter (perhaps jerking trigger, stance, breathing)
-sights (they appear OEM, but may not be; get out the micrometer)
-barrel (one can take all kinds of measurements, but substituting/swapping barrels and slides can be faster to narrow-down causes)
-ammo (you already mentioned opinions on different ammo brands and weights)
With all that said, it's an interesting project in which you're working.
wow! thats quite the pistol!! and it seems like a damn good grouping for 50 yards with a glock 19..
sry nothing more to add.
I would not be too upset with that group at 50 - it's not a match .45.
Glock says their fronts sights are all the same, they have rear sights that are marked on the right side (as shooting) as follows:
6.1mm - long dash with short dash underneath (referred to as -1)
6.5mm - long dash (standard on 17 and 19) (referred to as ZERO)
6.9mm - long dash with short dash above (referred to as +1)
7.3mm - long dash with two short dashes above (referred to as +2)
In theory each change equals 2.4 inches change at 27yds/25m. In your case, assuming you started with the 6.5 you would use a 7.3 to get you close to POA/POI - still about 1.2 low.
Seems to me with my rudimentary math skills, that the same height sight on a reduced sight radius pistol would result in the shorter radius sight shooting slightly lower than the longer radius.
Using your figures 6 inches low @25 on the Ameriglo sight calculator ( https://www.ameriglo.net/sights/calculator ) came up with this: OFFSET: 0.040in
What does this mean?
The number in the Results box represents how much shorter (or taller) your front or rear sight needs to change. If you are shooting LOW, then you need a taller rear sight or a shorter front sight. If you are shooting HIGH, then you need a shorter rear sight or a taller front sight.
AmeriGlo offers a variety of rear sights (plain black and tritium) in the following heights:
.256", .271", .287", .311", .393" (6.5mm, 6.9mm, 7.3mm, 7.9mm, 10.0mm)
AmeriGlo offers a variety of front sights (plain, serrated, white dot, tritium) in the following heights:
.165" (standard factory height), .180", .200", .220", .240", .260", .280", .300", .315", .330", .350"
You will need to know your current sight heights to correctly replace it.
The standard height of a Glock plastic front sight is .165". (measure only the sight blade)
Glock offers a variety of rear sights, indicated with a series of dashes. Glock refers to these heights as +0 (6.5mm), +1 (6.9mm)
According to Ameriglo you need either a rear sight that is .040 taller or a front sight that is .040 shorter. 6.5mm = .2559in so looks like you need a rear sight that is .2959in, subtract the standard front sight height of .165 from .296 and you come up with a difference of .131 meaning, to me at least, your rear sight needs to be .131 taller than the front sight. Seems to me a combo of a .311 rear and a .180 front would be spot on. Make sense?
Of Course, this all goes out the window if you sighted in by aligning the dots on the night sights rather than the tip of the front sight blade and the shoulders of the rear sight.
BTW - the night sights on my AIM NYPD G19 were completely dead, are yours?
Just keep shooting. You may have reached the accuracy potential of that weapon.
Eurodriver
01-18-16, 12:36
Regardless of whether it is accurate or not, there is a severe issue with trigger control and it's one of those weird things that the more you think about it the more you shake trying to squeeze the trigger and ruining the shot.
I think I will grab the Haley trigger and see what that does. As well as only bring good 147gr ammo because the cheap stuff is almost pointless (plus the POI shift from 115gr supersonic to 147gr subsonic is almost 6" out of this gun at 80 yards.)
BTW - the night sights on my AIM NYPD G19 were completely dead, are yours?
Thanks for the info. I'll measure them and see what they come to.
Are those measurements from the dovetail to the top of the sight or the slide to the top of the sight?
I have about 8 AIM NYPD G19s. The ones I got in Janaury had very dim (but POI=POA) night sights. One of the ones I got a few weeks ago (when they offered them with Magpul G19 mags), the only one I've shot and the one mentioned in the post above, has brand new night sights which is why I hope I don't have to toss them. The rear sight does seem extremely low compared to the rear sights on factory guns or Trijicon HDs.
(IDK - I'll go out back later and measure when it gets warmer)[/I]
I have about 8 AIM NYPD G19s. The ones I got in Janaury had very dim (but POI=POA) night sights. One of the ones I got a few weeks ago (when they offered them with Magpul G19 mags), the only one I've shot and the one mentioned in the post above, has brand new night sights which is why I hope I don't have to toss them. The rear sight does seem extremely low compared to the rear sights on factory guns or Trijicon HDs.
I rethought my figuring and took a break to pick up my daughter from swim practice - dang kids are out of school more than they are in school, but I'm glad to be off today - so the edited post comes up different.
I found a takeoff '0' rear, it measured .252 versus the .256 glock says - but it had been installed - I took it off a G22L.
And I also ermembered where I put the dead sights from the G19 I bought from AIM. They measured .255 rear (6.477mm) and .156 front. They are Trijicon's, unknown if original Glock install.
Hope this helps.
Eurodriver
01-18-16, 15:54
Interesting.
My rear sight is .256" (I have another good to go Trijicon set to measure them against) but the front sight on my G19 that shoots low is shorter than my others by about 0.025". If I'm correct, having a shorter front sight would actually raise POI. So why does this gun shoot so low?
I recently switched to Glocks after years of being issued a SIG P220. My duty weapon is now a G21 GEN 4. That weapon has a workable trigger.
My off duty GEN 4 trigger was terrible. I had a very difficult time shooting the GEN 4 as well as my GEN 3 19. The newer gun's let off was very hard. I put a case of ammo through it in hopes that the trigger would improve. I polished all surfaces. It still sucked. I then installed a - connector and a GEN 3 trigger bar. This combo works very well. I have yet to have any reliablity issues with this set up. Problem solved for about $35.
Eurodriver mentioned a POI issue with a used GEN 2. Install a new slide lock before spending money on sights. Buy a few of these parts. Test each one until you find one that fixes the issue.
Alright. I need a new trigger
I finally got my slide and RMR back from L&M. I went to the range today (incidentally it was the same day as a FL Hometown shoot over on TOS. Decent guys) and zeroed the RMR at 50 yards.
I have to agree with most on here, if I was getting 50yd groups like those I wouldn't touch a thing. I'm of the camp stock parts only when it comes to Glock triggers, sometimes it's hard to get what you want but with a few stock connectors and springs you should be able to find a combo you like.
Eurodriver
01-18-16, 17:33
I recently switched to Glocks after years of being issued a SIG P220. My duty weapon is now a G21 GEN 4. That weapon has a workable trigger.
My off duty GEN 4 trigger was terrible. I had a very difficult time shooting the GEN 4 as well as my GEN 3 19. The newer gun's let off was very hard. I put a case of ammo through it in hopes that the trigger would improve. I polished all surfaces. It still sucked. I then installed a - connector and a GEN 3 trigger bar. This combo works very well. I have yet to have any reliablity issues with this set up. Problem solved for about $35.
Eurodriver mentioned a POI issue with a used GEN 2. Install a new slide lock before spending money on sights. Buy a few of these parts. Test each one until you find one that fixes the issue.
Good advice. I think that route is the road I will end up taking as it seems to be a consistently mentioned and inexpensive choice.
What does the slide lock have to do with POI? I did disassembled the pistol to swap the NY spring out with a 5.5lb spring. Is it possible I didnt assemble it correctly?
The slide lock makes contact with your barrel. If it is worn or out of spec, it can effect point of impact. I was told in the armorers class to keep a few of them in my kit and to try them before swapping out the sights.
The slide lock makes contact with your barrel. If it is worn or out of spec, it can effect point of impact. I was told in the armorers class to keep a few of them in my kit and to try them before swapping out the sights.
Good point.
Have you tried your Gen3 trigger bar in your Gen4?
Is your Storm Lake barrel fitted or drop in?
Eurodriver
01-19-16, 09:14
I haven't. That's easy enough, don't know why I never thought of that before.
SL Barrel is drop in.
I haven't. That's easy enough, don't know why I never thought of that before.
SL Barrel is drop in.
They're typically about $20 shipped from the usual suspects.
Eurodriver
01-19-16, 15:00
Thanks man. Hope you're doing well. A variety of parts have been ordered (G17 trigger bar to eliminate the serrated trigger, slide lock, etc) and I'll update this thread when I have range results.
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