Elk gun

[3958]

I am going on an elk hunt in CO in October of 2016.

I am in need of a bolt gun for this and any future trips. There will be many miles of trekking through mountains at high elevation. I am concerned about weight. Also, there is a good chance this rifle will take a beating. It needs to be durable. I will not be shooting strings of 50 rounds, so recoil is not an issue.

Those things being considered, I am seriously looking at the Ruger American Predator, in .308. Optic will most likely be a Leupold of some sort in 3x9. Price is preferred to be less than $1000 total. I'm somewhat flexible with that.

Why I like the Ruger on paper: It's light for a bolt gun. Threaded barrel (strong possibility of a can going on it in the future). I've heard good things through the grapevine about the American action, however have zero trigger time on it.

My question to you, brain trust of M4C, is what are the opinions of this rifle? A search revealed one thread where weight was not an issue. If there is another rifle that fits the bill, a la Rem700 AAC, I am completely open to ideas. The AAC is quite heavy from memory though.

This is my first bolt gun, and will not see any duty use besides dropping delicious 4 legged critters.

[jmnielsen]

I think the Ruger American Predator is a great choice for what you want. My dad has a .308 700 AAC and it's a heavy sumbich. He shot a nice elk with it this year just over 200 yards with Hornady 165gr SSTs. I highly recommend that as an ammo choice. They recovered the bullet in the far shoulder and it expanded perfectly.

Back to the Ruger. I own a few M77s that are very accurate hunting rifles and are light weight for doing a lot of walking. I don't think you can go wrong with the Ruger American Predator, I've read a lot of reviews on them and people really seem to like them. Threaded barrel is a big plus if you plan to suppress someday.

[3958]

Thank you. I'll definitely look into the Hornady SST ammo.

The Ruger seems to be the only rifle that fits my needs right now. Remington doesn't have a threaded barrel besides the AAC. Savage's offerings are heavy as well. Not being a wuss, but being from the midwest, 8k of elevation is going to be tough. The lighter the rifle, the more water I can carry.

5.56 will drop any white tail around here. I don't think that would work for elk. So here I am in the market for a .308.

I cant tell you how excited I am about this hunt.

[Co-gnARR]

I chose the 7mm rem mag because it hase a flatter trajectory with comparable effect on elk, etc. lighter loads are good for white tail, and the heavier loads work for elk. Sadly, I have not had the chance to hunt with it yet.

[mark5pt56]

If you are going to be humping you may want to reconsider what you carry. i would take a look at the Tikka T3 lite line in caliber of your needs. While I love my Winchester Extreme Weather, my Tikka is a pleasure to carry about 1-2 pounds makes a difference. And no, I don't need to "lift more weights"

[steyrman13]

Two things to consider.
If you are spending this much time and money for an elk hunt. Is $1000 budget gun going to be what you want for a once in lifetime shot? If you are doing public lands with a lottery for a tag, even more so of a once in a lifetime chance.
Of the 8 people I know that have hunted elk in Colorado, 7 of their shots were over 400 yards. I think .308 is on the smaller side of choices for caliber out there. Most carry .300 win mag, 7mm mag/ultra mag, etc for the longer range shots.

[3958]

I'll look into the .300 win mag. Any specific rifle handle .300 wm best?

I'll be public ground hunting. Two of the guys I am going with went to this area in 2014. According to them, in this area, 400 yd shots are rare. 200-250 yards will be typical.

[steyrman13]

I'll look into the .300 win mag. Any specific rifle handle .300 wm best?

I'll be public ground hunting. Two of the guys I am going with went to this area in 2014. According to them, in this area, 400 yd shots are rare. 200-250 yards will be typical.

The Tikka T3 suggested, Steyr Prohunter, and ruger American, are all fairly light models.

Yeah definitely depends on where you go as to the distance on shots. One of those people I know that went hunting on public lands had a very short shot around 125. They were in the areas with very dense woods. If you are hunting in those areas, the .308 should be fine.

[Auto-X Fil]

.308 is OK for elk, but for a dedicated hunting rifle that will see relatively few rounds, 300WM is better. I prefer 300 WSM for the short action and softer felt recoil, but WM is a good choice as well. 7mm WSM is a little lighter recoiling and even flatter-shooting at long range, with the right billets. However, 300 WSM is so accurate (it's a favorite of 1000-yd benchrest competitors), and so popular (ammo is in every mom-and-pop hunting shack), that I suggest going that route. If it was going to be a dual-purpose tactical/long-range toy, cheaper 300WM ammo and more detachable mag guns might come into play... But with relatively few rounds going through most hunting guns, WSM is handier.

For a value gun it's hard to beat a Savage. We have a Weather Warrior in 300 WSM with muzzle brake. That thing makes it darned easy to ring the gong at 600 when equipped with a Leupold CDS scope (which I highly recommend).

There is currently a $100 rebate on Leupold scopes, so order this month if possible!

http://www.tacticalwholesalers.com/Leupold-VX-3-35-10x40mm-CDS-Matte-Wind-Plex-120600_p_105120.html

https://www.gunsamerica.com/933189464/Savage-Model-16-FSS-300-WSM-NE.htm

[krm375]

Don't discount the old 30.06 with bullet selection from light to heavy and the ability to find ammo almost everywhere. i found a used 5 digit serial number rem 700 bdl carbine for an elk hunt in Co. years ago still have it its a light handy rifle that is my primary harsh weather rifle for hunting.

[3958]

I can borrow my dad's Rem700 in 30-06 for this hunt. I'm sure it would do great. Only problem is he's built it into a 45lb hog for bench shooting.

I'm looking at that Tikka T3. It seems like a pretty handy rifle. Do they make a threaded barrel model? Couldn't find one on their website.

[brickboy240]

My Texas friends and family members that go elk hunting in CO and NM all use 700 Remingtons in either 7 Rem Mag or 300 Win Mag.

Around here, a 7 Rem Mag or 300WM bolt gun is a VERY common find in gun shop used racks. Most are 700 Remingtons, Mod 70 Winchesters or Weatherby Vanguards. Most are also priced at 500 dollars or less.

I'd start there. The 308 and 30-06 are a tad light unless you get really close.

[mark5pt56]

http://www.eurooptic.com/tikka-t3-lite-threaded.aspx

[jmnielsen]

I'd start there. The 308 and 30-06 are a tad light unless you get really close.

I don't know what you mean be "really close" but I disagree. The 30-06 is more than capable for anything in North America. And I know plenty of people that have killed moose with a 308, using the 165gr SSTs mentioned above. Shot placement is key and honestly, you get out to ranges 400+ and its not that the bullet won't do its job but many people can't make the shot.

Factory threaded barrels in a hunting rifle are hard to come by. Hopefully with suppressors becoming a lot more popular other companies will jump on the bus and start marking them but for now, I would still go Ruger American. Unless you don't mind paying to have a barrel threaded, then I would probably go with a tikka t3.

[Auto-X Fil]

Moose and Elk are very different animals. Moose have thin hides and drop pretty darn easy given their size. Elk are incredibly tough beasts, and the shoulder can stop a pretty serious slug. The skin alone is nuts, and I've seen many 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag bullets stopped by the hide on the far side. I prefer exit wounds when hunting, especially in thick terrain.

A good shot with a .308 or .30-06 with a 165gr+ bonded or partition bullet is totally adequate within about 200yd. But with 7mm RM, 300WM, and the WSMs available... Why not step it up and buy yourself some margin and added range, if elk are a primary goal?

[3958]

I Appreciate the feedback so far. The Tikka option seems pretty nice. More research needs to be done on that rifle. I'd really like to shoot a similarly equipped T3 and predator together.

[Auto-X Fil]

FYI, I haven't shot a Predator, but I have mounted a scope and developed a handload on a T3 and a normal Ruger American. The Tikka has better fit and finish, and is a little sexier. The Ruger borrows a lot of tricks from Savage, which isn't a bad thing, but doesn't feel quite as solid and slick. Both shot more than adequately for most hunting use, and as good as the Savages I usually use.

I don't know of a T3 with a threaded barrel, and that would totally sway me.

[wcjmt]

The following comments are based on my observations, not gospel, not scientific just personal observations so take them for what you want. I have shot 32 elk in the last 32 years, helped an outfitter friend 20 of those years and saw his hunters take at least another 150. I have shot elk with a .284 win, 7mm rem mag, .338 win mag and .340 weatherby. The last 22 have all been with the .340 and 225 grain nosler partitions. I have seen hunters use everything from 25-06 to .375. I have never had an elk shot with the .340 that took more than 10 steps. I have spent days and miles tracking elk shot by my outfitters hunters, mostly with .270 and 30-06's. Good bullet choices would have helped both of those have better outcomes. I like partitions, Barnes x's seem to work well, probably most of the new bonded stuff would work.

200 yards is close for where I hunt, average shot over the years is 300 plus or minus 50. A lot more opportunities at 400 than 200. Be a good hunter and know when to walk away from the shot. I feel a .308 would be at its max at 200 yards. I am sure lots get killed farther than that, but I hate finding dead elk people couldn't find because they shot too far with too little gun.

Probably the most popular with good hunters I know is a .300 magnum, winchester, weatherby, wsm or H&H, in that order. Good bullets, preferably 180 grains, maybe 165 with Barnes and respect your limitations and the limits of your caliber choice.

Good luck

[3958]

Thank you. This is the kind of information I've been looking for.

Never hunted elk before. I'm going in a party of three. The other two guy have been a few (3 times each) before. It'll be a non guided hunt on public ground. This will be as much a learning experience as a hunt.

I have a decent background hunting deer in the midwest. 5.56 works very well for deer where I hunt. Elk is a totally different animal. Pun intended. I just want to be an ethical and hopefully successful hunter.

I have much learning to do before october.

[FlyingHunter]

As a very experienced big game hunter, here's my recommendations:
1. The rifle is less relevant than the time you spend shooting behind it.
2. Shoot as much as you can afford before the hunt, shoot after pushups etc...to simulate the stress, shoot in hasty positions, shoot at last light.
3. Use premium designed hunting bullets, everyone has there favorite, buy a box of each and watch for the ones that group the best in your rifle.
4. Caliber is so much less relevant than shot placement. The general idea is shoot the biggest caliber you shoot very well. Very well is the key.
5. 308 or 30-06 will work sub 250 yds; but Elk are not deer and much tougher. If this will be a frequent repeated hunt consider moving up in caliber.
6. Light rifles carry better and kick harder - everything's a trade off. I prefer a softer shooting heavier weight rifle for big game hunting Elk size+.
7. Good glass on top of your rifle is very important as are binos. Buy the best you can afford.

Enjoy the hunt - you will have a great experience!

[golfer]

You've received some good information to deal with. I will make a suggestion you consider the 7mm sized bullets. I especially like the 280 Remington or 7mm wsm. These can be made into relative light rifles 6 or less and with a scope and rings 7# or so. Ammunition is relative inexpensive, and recoil will be much lighter than with a 30 cal. rifle. The last thing you want is a rifle your are afraid to shoot because of recoil. Unless you have fired a 300 Win Mag. a larger number of times it is not the rifle you want to take on a high dollar Elk hunt with the hopes you can shoot an animal at 400+ yards. IMO 308 is a very poor round for a long shot at an Elk unless you are very familiar with that trajectory. The 280/7mm wsm are flat shooting with relative mild recoil. The bullets perform very well and there are a lot of bullet weight choices for 7mm. It is a rifle caliber you can take elk, moose or deer hunting, is not over kill for smaller animals and works well for elk sized critters as well. The Tikka rifle is a winner by the way. Tikka is made by Sako which makes great rifles.

[snowdog650]

I have a 1960's-era Remington 700 BDL in 30-06 that I picked up in 2008 for a mere (steal?) $150. Lightweight, accurate, and consistent. I love this gun for hunting, and it has taken a few elk in Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico.

I load 180-grain Barnes TTSX and it has always been enough bullet for an ethical kill. As you know, shot placement is paramount regardless of caliber.

With that said ... I hunt with buddies who use 7mm REM MAG ... also a fine caliber, as discussed.

[EVR]

I am going on an elk hunt in CO in October of 2016.

I am in need of a bolt gun for this and any future trips. There will be many miles of trekking through mountains at high elevation. I am concerned about weight. Also, there is a good chance this rifle will take a beating. It needs to be durable. I will not be shooting strings of 50 rounds, so recoil is not an issue.

Those things being considered, I am seriously looking at the Ruger American Predator, in .308. Optic will most likely be a Leupold of some sort in 3x9. Price is preferred to be less than $1000 total. I'm somewhat flexible with that.

Why I like the Ruger on paper: It's light for a bolt gun. Threaded barrel (strong possibility of a can going on it in the future). I've heard good things through the grapevine about the American action, however have zero trigger time on it.

My question to you, brain trust of M4C, is what are the opinions of this rifle? A search revealed one thread where weight was not an issue. If there is another rifle that fits the bill, a la Rem700 AAC, I am completely open to ideas. The AAC is quite heavy from memory though.

This is my first bolt gun, and will not see any duty use besides dropping delicious 4 legged critters.

OP:

I've killed elk with the .375 H&H Magnum, 9.3x57, 7x57 and 6.5x55.

The .308 will do, but I'd probably ask your guide in CO what he recommends. Here in Idaho the .30-06 is probably the most common elk caliber followed by maybe the .270 and .300 Win Mag and 7mm Rem Mag. All are fine. Colorado conditions in various areas are somewhat different than many areas here in North Idaho.

I have no experience with Ruger American rifles. We have quite a number of M77's and frankly I don't think you can find a better hunting rifle than a M77MKII or Hawkeye but if the thing feeds and functions correctly, and shoots 5 shot groups at 100 yard into 1.75 inches or so from the bench, you are golden.

I would, however, spend quite a bit of time shooting from field positions. From what I know from those I know, CO elk shooting is often easy, but don't count on it.

[J-Dub]

Two things to consider.
If you are spending this much time and money for an elk hunt. Is $1000 budget gun going to be what you want for a once in lifetime shot? If you are doing public lands with a lottery for a tag, even more so of a once in a lifetime chance.
Of the 8 people I know that have hunted elk in Colorado, 7 of their shots were over 400 yards. I think .308 is on the smaller side of choices for caliber out there. Most carry .300 win mag, 7mm mag/ultra mag, etc for the longer range shots.

You don't have to spend 10k, or even close to that. The American predator should be a fine platform.

[titsonritz]

You've received some good information to deal with. I will make a suggestion you consider the 7mm sized bullets. I especially like the 280 Remington or 7mm wsm. These can be made into relative light rifles 6 or less and with a scope and rings 7# or so. Ammunition is relative inexpensive, and recoil will be much lighter than with a 30 cal. rifle. The last thing you want is a rifle your are afraid to shoot because of recoil. Unless you have fired a 300 Win Mag. a larger number of times it is not the rifle you want to take on a high dollar Elk hunt with the hopes you can shoot an animal at 400+ yards. IMO 308 is a very poor round for a long shot at an Elk unless you are very familiar with that trajectory. The 280/7mm wsm are flat shooting with relative mild recoil. The bullets perform very well and there are a lot of bullet weight choices for 7mm. It is a rifle caliber you can take elk, moose or deer hunting, is not over kill for smaller animals and works well for elk sized critters as well. The Tikka rifle is a winner by the way. Tikka is made by Sako which makes great rifles.

.280 AI (http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammo/new-and-improved-the-280-ackley-improved/)

.280 Ackley Improved (http://www.shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_the_280_ackley_031511/)

[steyrman13]

You don't have to spend 10k, or even close to that. The American predator should be a fine platform.

Where did I say 10k???

[Watrdawg]

With the possibility of 300 yard + shots and as tough as Elk are I'm shooting a 300 Win Mag. There are a great number of bullets to choose from and I would stick with a bonded bullet at least 165 gr or heavier. When I'm in Alberta I'm shooting a 165gr Trophy Copper round and it has functioned perfectly for me. I've use the 180gr Trophy Copper when elk hunting. Surprisingly both rounds are very accurate out of my rifle. I had a Rem 700 re-barreled with a Lilja Match Grade barrel and then bedded into a HS Precision stock and replaced the stock trigger with a Jewel trigger. The rifle is a bit heavy but that helps to mitigate some of the recoil. On anything larger than deer this is my go to rifle.

[Jwknutson17]

I would have to echo the 300 win mag statements. If you plan to take an elk, this is the round I personally choose, without a doubt. I have a hard time using a 7mm mag as my "primary" elk rifle, but I do have it as my backup I bring to camp. 30-06 could get you by in a pinch. Any serious elk hunter, at least the ones I know, run 300 win mags, 300 weatherby's, 300 ultra's, or 30-378's. From my experience, 180gr+ in the .30 caliber will do the trick on whatever elk comes across your path. I wouldn't run less. Just from my experience in the CO high country.

[anatolian B]

Great info below, spot on.

I guided six seasons in CO and saw elk taken with many different calibers. The key was hunters that knew their rifle and were in good shape. Shoot a lot and hike a lot to prepare. Also buy a quality sling and hike with your rifle if there is a local place you can do so. Good luck!



As a very experienced big game hunter, here's my recommendations:
1. The rifle is less relevant than the time you spend shooting behind it.
2. Shoot as much as you can afford before the hunt, shoot after pushups etc...to simulate the stress, shoot in hasty positions, shoot at last light.
3. Use premium designed hunting bullets, everyone has there favorite, buy a box of each and watch for the ones that group the best in your rifle.
4. Caliber is so much less relevant than shot placement. The general idea is shoot the biggest caliber you shoot very well. Very well is the key.
5. 308 or 30-06 will work sub 250 yds; but Elk are not deer and much tougher. If this will be a frequent repeated hunt consider moving up in caliber.
6. Light rifles carry better and kick harder - everything's a trade off. I prefer a softer shooting heavier weight rifle for big game hunting Elk size+.
7. Good glass on top of your rifle is very important as are binos. Buy the best you can afford.

Enjoy the hunt - you will have a great experience!

[multistage]

A 30 of some variety is usually the recommendation, with good reason. '06, 300WM, 300WBY, so on and so forth.

7s are usually in second place. Third goes to the 270, 338, etc.

I favor my 300 H&H. I can't recommend it due to ammo constraints and the fact that finding one ain't easy. I had mine built.

I would recommend a 30. The 30-06 is plenty good. The 300WM is the '06 plus 100-150 yards.

So long as you can run it, you'll be fine.