View Full Version : Those of you with astigmatism.
I'm not going to ask which is a better optic because that has been beat to death. My question those of you that have it do you still use a red dot and do you find any loss in accuracy or speed having the dot looking like a dash, start cluster or what have you. I have astigmatism and I know just looking through scopes and sights at the store that an etched reticle looks the best but I would really rather have a red dot.
I have to turn the dot intensity down as low as I can see the dot to reduce the star effect when shooting with an Aimpoint. My accuracy is off a bit. My loss of speed is attributed to less range time with the AR platform these days.
I have to turn the dot intensity down as low as I can see the dot to reduce the star effect when shooting with an Aimpoint. My accuracy is off a bit. My loss of speed is attributed to less range time with the AR platform these days.
How much off is your accuracy?
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How much off is your accuracy?
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It's not off too much in close. In the past I could hold under 2-1/2 MOA from 100 to 300 yards with run of the mill ball ammunition using a red dot sight. These days 3 MOA at 300 yards is the norm.
That's not terrible I don't see me shooting past 100 yards.
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black22rifle
12-28-15, 17:42
Have you considered wearing glasses or contacts? Doing so will pretty much get correct your astigmstism.
Digital_Damage
12-28-15, 17:42
try the leupold prismatic.
I've gone to fiber optic sights. I have the little 1.5x acog on my tp9 sbr, a trijicon tripower on my AR pistol (had it for a decade), and will be putting a meprolight reflex on the upcoming build. My full on rifle has a Leupold AR patrol 1-4x on it. It has a red dot, and it's not as splashed as most, but I rarely use that feature. The ladies rifle has a trijicon 1-4x accupoint on it.
They are clear and sharp.
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Have you considered wearing glasses or contacts? Doing so will pretty much get correct your astigmstism.
I do wear contacts but there is a level of distortion. Generally a star look to the dot.
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I have astigmatism, and wear glasses/contacts.
Aimpoint is starburst regardless...
I have astigmatism, and wear glasses/contacts.
Aimpoint is starburst regardless...
Same here.
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try the leupold prismatic.
I have looked through one of those and it is really nice, but it seems very delicate compared to other options on the market.
Have you considered wearing glasses or contacts? Doing so will pretty much get correct your astigmstism.
This! And the correct prescription is a MUST.
I'm 7th decader with severe presbyopia, myopia and astigmatism. Don't shoot past 200m - but notice no problems. The dot IS a dot, and accuracy is as it has been.
Now - shooting a pistol with iron sights? That HAS deminished over time (OK - and a retinal detachment and laser spot welding thrown in might be influencing things a bit.)
john
This! And the correct prescription is a MUST.
I'm 7th decader with severe presbyopia, myopia and astigmatism. Don't shoot past 200m - but notice no problems. The dot IS a dot, and accuracy is as it has been.
Now - shooting a pistol with iron sights? That HAS deminished over time (OK - and a retinal detachment and laser spot welding thrown in might be influencing things a bit.)
john
I do wear contacts and glasses when not wearing them. The dot still looks like a starburst, which I don't mind if there isn't an extreme loss in accuracy due to it.
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ColtSeavers
12-28-15, 19:16
Here is very recent thread on this very topic:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?177403-Best-Red-Dot-for-Astigmatism
I wear contacts and glasses when not wearing contacts. While wearing contacts, depending on eye fatigue, red dots look more like stars, especially at higher brightness settings. Kind of a 'catch-22', turn it up high, and it's a spalshy starburst, too low, and it gets washed out easily. While wearing glasses, the problem is less if at all noticable.
Here is very recent thread on this very topic:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?177403-Best-Red-Dot-for-Astigmatism
I wear contacts and glasses when not wearing contacts. While wearing contacts, depending on eye fatigue, red dots look more like stars, especially at higher brightness settings. Kind of a 'catch-22', turn it up high, and it's a spalshy starburst, too low, and it gets washed out easily. While wearing glasses, the problem is less if at all noticable.
Hmm I may have to look at Eotech again, I have a 512 now that isn't terrible. I gave it to my dad the other day actually to put on his first AR. It seems like it may be the lesser of two evils.
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ColtSeavers
12-28-15, 19:32
Hmm I may have to look at Eotech again, I have a 512 now that isn't terrible. I gave it to my dad the other day actually to put on his first AR. It seems like it may be the lesser of two evils.
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That would be a good start, just hope your father is not reluctant to give up the Eotech! I would suggest looking through it when you are fatigued, like at the end of a long work day, hopefully simulating or actually having eye fatigue to see how it looks in less than optimal eye conditions. Kind of like trying on new work shoes at the end of a long day when your feet are hamburger and will instantly tell you go or no-go.
Otherwise, barring a Cinderella red dot, prismatic scopes and regular (fixed or variable) are always an option.
That would be a good start, just hope your father is not reluctant to give up the Eotech! I would suggest looking through it when you are fatigued, like at the end of a long work day, hopefully simulating or actually having eye fatigue to see how it looks in less than optimal eye conditions. Kind of like trying on new work shoes at the end of a long day when your feet are hamburger and will instantly tell you go or no-go.
Otherwise, barring a Cinderella red dot, prismatic scopes and regular (fixed or variable) are always an option.
I did look through it and since I look at a computer or my cell phone all day eye fatigue is plenty present. With that being said it is still ragged on the edges of the ring I can see the dot in the middle if I drop the power down. As far as him giving it up he can keep it I have been eyeing one of the smaller units and with everyone dumping Eotech maybe I can find one for a song some where.
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Nocalsocal
12-28-15, 21:08
I've always wanted an aimpoint but the starburst with my astigmatism was horrible even with glasses. I recently sold an eotech to buy the Vortex Strike Eagle 1x6. The eotech xps, when dimmed low enough gave the clearest red dot for my eyes. But I didn't care for it's limited battery life nor the reports of possible POI shift in extreme temperatures. Living in Northern Nevada where temp extremes can be as low as -20 in the wintertime desert or a high of 110 in the summer, I've lost some, albeit untested, faith in it. So I went with an etched reticle from a company with a fantastic warranty. In fact, when I first bought the Strike Eagle online they sent me a scope with a damaged reticle. I contacted them and was sent a replacement within 2 days of dropping it off to Fedex Office. And Vortex prepaid for all of the Fedex shipping! Both ways!One day an ACOG will sit atop my carbines. But for now the Vortex is fulfilling my needs. Yeah it's heavier than what I would like but my astigmatism and my wallet are happy.
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I've always wanted an aimpoint but the starburst with my astigmatism was horrible even with glasses. I recently sold an eotech to buy the Vortex Strike Eagle 1x6. The eotech xps, when dimmed low enough gave the clearest red dot for my eyes. But I didn't care for it's limited battery life nor the reports of possible POI shift in extreme temperatures. Living in Northern Nevada where temp extremes can be as low as -20 in the wintertime desert or a high of 110 in the summer, I've lost some, albeit untested, faith in it. So I went with an etched reticle from a company with a fantastic warranty. In fact, when I first bought the Strike Eagle online they sent me a scope with a damaged reticle. I contacted them and was sent a replacement within 2 days of dropping it off to Fedex Office. And Vortex prepaid for all of the Fedex next day shipping! One day an ACOG will sit atop my carbines. But for now the Vortex is fulfilling my needs. Yeah it's heavier than what I would like but my astigmatism and my wallet are happy.
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Good to hear this I have been looking at the Eotech and it just looks like a mess to my eyes. Funny enough I am reading up on the Strike Eagle now.
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So why doesn't someone put a diopter adjustment on a red dot? It seems most can't see the dot clearly.
I never even heard of astigmatism until I started reading about red dot sights, now it seems everybody has it. Is it really peoples eyes or just shitty products yes I am including Gods own Aimpoint. What difference does it make how much battery life you have if the dot is not clear. Can anyone actually see a red dot clearly? I know I have great eyesight but my T-1 looks like a bowl of grapes
I never even heard of astigmatism until I started reading about red dot sights, now it seems everybody has it. Is it really peoples eyes or just shitty products yes I am including Gods own Aimpoint. What difference does it make how much battery life you have if the dot is not clear. Can anyone actually see a red dot clearly? I know I have great eyesight but my T-1 looks like a bowl of grapes
With that being said Dave does your accuracy suffer due to the dot not being very clear?
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Nocalsocal
12-29-15, 08:38
I never even heard of astigmatism until I started reading about red dot sights, now it seems everybody has it. Is it really peoples eyes or just shitty products yes I am including Gods own Aimpoint. What difference does it make how much battery life you have if the dot is not clear. Can anyone actually see a red dot clearly? I know I have great eyesight but my T-1 looks like a bowl of grapes
I would only get a precise and clear dot if I looked through the rear sight aperture. It made for a really busy and cluttered sight picture. It was true for any red dot Ilooked through: Aim points, Eotechs, Sparcs, etc. When looking through any Aimpoint, for my eyes at least, the "bowl of grapes" was more like grapes on the vine. And that was really distracting to get a precise shot. I know that the focal point should be the target but the frustration was always there. And that took away any confidence in accurate shooting. The Eotech was friendliest to my eyes but I didn't care for the battery life.
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I think for those of us with astigmatism the best path forward is an etched reticle system vs a projected dot or image. Not sure about the LCO being an etched system vs a projected dot though. Vortex Spitfire, Leupold Prysmatic or your run of the mill 1-4,1-6 variable may the best bet if youre astygmatism is severe enough to make a RDS useless.
yossarian42
12-29-15, 11:52
For me, I have glasses for distance that I never wear. Only time I wear them is at the range when I'm shooting with a red dot.
Without the glasses red dots appear like a Starburst (not the candy) or oblong depending on the rds. Eotech dot seems to be ok without glasses, maybe because the dot is so fine.
With glasses or through a magnifier it's perfectly crisp and clear. What about people with contacs? Do they fix it?
I wear contacts all the time and even with them is still looks like a star. I feel like we are getting a little off topic here. My question is for those of you who have astigmatism and wear glasses/contacts and they still get some sort of distortion. Does it effect your accuracy or speed or is it just annoying?
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If you want to take a precision shot with a red dot just flip up the rear buis and look through it. The dot magically looks perfect.
My contacts have pretty much fully corrected my astigmatism in my right (dominate) eye. I have no issues seeing an aimpoint dot or eotech reticle.
Nocalsocal
12-29-15, 14:33
It's more annoying than anything. I've tried to tell myself to aim with the top of the "comma" or "grape cluster" but it's seems to defeat the purpose of increased accuracy with optics. Up close the red dot cluster /comma is fast but I will take accuracy over speed any day. .
JackFanToM
12-29-15, 16:27
well any blur will affect your accuracy, but RDS are designed for speed. There are things you can do to clarify your reticle if precision becomes the priority over speed. Most of my speed shooting is inside of 100 yards, and the majority of that is inside 25, so I suffer no ill effects regarding speed. I would say my accuracy may suffer slightly, but at those ranges it is hardly a relevant loss of accuracy.
I get the star burst but as mentioned RDS are designed for speed,fast target acquisition. As said above for what they are designed for CQB the star burst is not gonna make me miss a body shot at 50 yards on a NRA Official Silhouette B-34 Target. Now for a percision shot out to 100-200 or further yards I just flip op my rear BUIS and look through the small aperture at the red dot and it is nice and crisp. Try it.
Any of you guys have luck focusing a magnifier for longer shots?
Even with glasses aimpoints look like peanuts for me.
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ZipZopBoop
12-29-15, 21:47
I have astigmatism and can't see red dots clearly. So I switched to a variable power scope.
However, for whatever reason I can see EOTech reticles perfectly. I'm thinking about getting one for my pistol/SBR but have been hearing a lot of problems with them.
Has anyone with astigmatism tried the Holosun brand circle-dot sight and how did the reticle look? Does anyone know if they use the same technology as EOTech, or do they use the same red dot technology? I'm thinking that perhaps holographic sights work better with my eyes.
Holosun are rds style not holographic film like an EoTech. I don't think many people realize how the technology in a hologram works. It's nothing like bouncing light from an LED off a piece of angled glass.
The fine dot on my EoTech allows precision shots out to 500 yards. My RDS style sights have bigger dots. I don't have an Aimpoint but I have a couple Trijicon RMR. Those and a couple other super cheap rds look like grapes. If I really concentrate on one of those grapes I can make decent precision hit.
Here's another thread on the subject: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?173132-Astigmatism-with-certain-rifle-scopes-help
My new Vortex 1x prism scope looks very good to my eyes. It's a shame they were discontinued. If you can still find one for $200 snag it up asap.
I wear glasses, have every day for over 40yrs, except for a few years 20+ yrs ago when I wore contacts. That's when I found out about astigmatism, as I had special contacts for it.
However, back then I didn't have any red dots, it was sights or a scope.
The eotech is just crazy furry.
Regular red dots don't starburst for me, the dot is an elongated oval, canted to one side at somewhere around 20 degrees, or so it looks. I could learn to work around it if it were vertical or horizontal.
Good quality sights are better than cheap ones, but they all do it. A more technical friend thinks it's the light frequency difference between led and fiber optic/tritium, mixing with the condition.
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To me if I'm looking through an Aimpoint it looks like a star the Eotech looks like like a nebula for lack of a better term. I will have to stick with a variable power optic if not having a clear aiming point is going to be an issue. I'm wishing I had kept my Burris M-tac now.
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Sorry for veering off topic...
For people who say an EoTech looks fuzzy, what you are seeing is called speckle. It happens when the coherent laser light gets slightly out of phase with itself. The peaks and valleys add and subtract making very small bright and dark spots of light. Look closely at a laser pointer dot and you'll see the same effect. An LED style RDS doesn't emit coherent single frequency laser light so it doesn't speckle. Fake EoTechs use regular non-laser LEDs and do not speckle either.
I never even heard of astigmatism until I started reading about red dot sights, now it seems everybody has it. Is it really peoples eyes or just shitty products yes I am including Gods own Aimpoint. What difference does it make how much battery life you have if the dot is not clear. Can anyone actually see a red dot clearly? I know I have great eyesight but my T-1 looks like a bowl of grapes
You can answer this question yourself by taking a picture of the dot with your cel phone. You should see a perfectly defined dot because your phone doesn't have astigmatism.
I wear contacts all the time and even with them is still looks like a star. I feel like we are getting a little off topic here. My question is for those of you who have astigmatism and wear glasses/contacts and they still get some sort of distortion. Does it effect your accuracy or speed or is it just annoying?
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The effects of astigmatisms are different for everyone. Mine creates kind of double vision and makes things like red dots have a "ghosting" effect. So I will see the true dot and a ghost image of it that appears slightly lower and to the right. They appear so close together that with larger dots >3 moa the two images will merge and the dot will appear elliptical. I also get the "starburst" effect which gets proportionately worse as the brightness setting increases.
It doesn't matter if it's an Aimpoint, Eotech, or 1x primsmatic, they are all affected by my astigmatism. Glasses will noticeably clear up the image and get rid of the "ghost" but it will never get perfect. I recently bought a 1x vortex prismatic to play with and it is still fuzzy shooting with both eyes open. If I shoot with one eye, it's perfectly clear. I don't know what that situation is called but somehow my non-aiming eye causes my aiming eye to distort the reticle a little bit causing a little bit of fuzziness where it would otherwise be clear. Again, glasses will clear it up with both eyes open. My eotechs offers the most precision with my naked eye, shooting with both eyes open.
There's no apparent consequence to accuracy (does the bullet go where it's supposed to go) with or without glasses; point of impact never shifts. Precision (how tight it groups) can be affected at longer ranges due to the somewhat larger dot size of the "starburst" effect. I find the eotechs to offer the most precision because the central dot is so bright and fine that I can always make out the center of the "starburst".
I've never measured splits (with and without glasses), but I don't think speed is impacted at all. But I personally use red dots on rifles that shoot close and fast (100 yards and less).
As far as being annoying... it's subjective. Relative to my lifespan, I've only recently learned that I have an astigmatism that I've lived with uncorrected since forever. Everything is slightly fuzzy for me at any difference, from words on a page, to leaves on a tree, to what-have-you. The day I got glasses, I couldn't believe how different the world looked. It was like going from an old CRT television to a new HD television. So I learned to shoot, and shoot well, with whatever optical handicap I unknowingly had. For me, red dots offer speed and precision over irons. I don't find it annoying since both are improved by the red dot.
I index the starburst I see in my Aimpoint on target and manage to keep the rounds where they need to go. Accuracy is not what it was 20 years ago, but it is close enough for government work.
Once my eyesight reaches the point I can't use a red dot sight while wearing daily eyewear, I am going to transition back to iron sights. I have been toying with the idea of an offset fiber optic sight to use in addition to iron sights.
Bumping an old thread here for a question; is astigmatism correctable no matter how bad? I'm going for an eye exam next month with an emphasis on correcting my astigamtism as I'm tired of seeing a comma instead of a dot. My far vision is very good and only recently does reading require a hair more distance from my eyes.
Bumping an old thread here for a question; is astigmatism correctable no matter how bad? I'm going for an eye exam next month with an emphasis on correcting my astigamtism as I'm tired of seeing a comma instead of a dot. My far vision is very good and only recently does reading require a hair more distance from my eyes.
Based solely on my experience I would have to say no. I've had to deal with it all my life. I've had glasses, contacts, toric contacts specifically for astigmatism and two eye surgeries and I've never had it fully corrected. My case was severe enough to eliminate me as a candidate for Lasik though. A milder case may yield better results.
Furbyballer
12-25-16, 11:54
Based solely on my experience I would have to say no. I've had to deal with it all my life. I've had glasses, contacts, toric contacts specifically for astigmatism and two eye surgeries and I've never had it fully corrected. My case was severe enough to eliminate me as a candidate for Lasik though. A milder case may yield better results.
My experiences parallel yours. Even after PRK and other procedures my astigmatism is still something that I have to work through and adapt. I still use red dots, but anything over 100 yds I generally throw my magnifier on and it crisps up my dot. I have begun using LPV optics on some of my rifles and have found them to be better for my eyes than my red dots due to the etched reticles and precise illuminated dots.
Thanks gents, I suspected that might be the case. I guess I'll see how bad it is when I have the exam. I have yet to see a red dot in a small enough package that has alternative technology like prism that would work for me.
Thanks gents, I suspected that might be the case. I guess I'll see how bad it is when I have the exam. I have yet to see a red dot in a small enough package that has alternative technology like prism that would work for me.
Good luck. FWIW I still shoot well enough with an Aimpoint and don't have any trouble sighting one in at 50 yards. I even have an ACO on one of my rfiles. I prefer the Eotech reticle to the Aimpoint dot because I can see it more clearly, but due to the recent Eotech drama I dumped them altogether. I'm anxious to see the the Vortex UH-1. I've also had good success with the Vortex Spitfire 1x due to its etched reticle.
I like the Spitfire but too clunky imo. I'm hoping to get to Shot Show to see the new Vortex offerings.
So thought I'd update; had an eye exam today and confirmed a mild astigmatism. Tested some corrective lenses and it did clean up the dot to a point where it was enough for me order a set of glasses purely for shooting. The most noticeable effect was removing the tail from the comma shape that I get. While not perfect I am looking forward to seeing something that looks more like a dot and less a blob.
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