View Full Version : Dennys Operator Barrel??
spring1271
08-10-08, 17:04
What is the opinion of Dennys Operator Barrel versus an Noveske N4??
eltorito71
08-10-08, 19:30
Operator is a top notch barrel. I've got one. It's not cold hammer forged like the Noveske.
The accuracy of the Noveske is unsurpassed (except for maybe MSTN, but you're splitting hairs). However, the Operator is not too far behind and many people (i.e., joe blows like myself) probably wouldn't notice the difference.
Life of an Operator barrel is supposed to be 40,000 rounds (that's straight from Denny). I'll try my hardest to see if that is the case. Noveske I'm sure is in that area too.
I don't have the operator, but I've done a few builds on his recon barrels. no problems to report. survived a couple carbine classes and several tactical rifle matches.
usaffarmer
08-10-08, 22:23
Im VERY HAPPY with my Noveske N4 barrel on my voltor / pof rifle.
At the range i was shooting .5 MOA at 100 yards with an Eotech and 3x mag behind it.
I was very inpressed.
Im VERY HAPPY with my Noveske N4 barrel on my voltor / pof rifle.
At the range i was shooting .5 MOA at 100 yards with an Eotech and 3x mag behind it.
I was very inpressed.
What ammo?
eltorito71
08-11-08, 10:09
So far my Operator build has eaten every type of ammo I've put through it without any malfunctions, including Wolf.
blacktail 8541
08-11-08, 22:41
I've had my operator build completed for a couple of months now.
55 fmj Hornady' handloads average about 2 inches at 100yds from the bench with a 6x scope.
Next is to try higher magnification and then heavier projectiles to see if it has the potential to do better.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/JDSISCO6/000_2499-2.jpg
urbankaos04
08-11-08, 23:03
What is the opinion of Dennys Operator Barrel versus an Noveske N4??
Based on the accuracy reports I've seen here about the N4 and on the TOS about the Operator, I'd say that the Noveske appears to be the more accurate barrel. From what I remember, the second generation Operators were grouping from .6 to 1.2 MOA, but that was based on a wide variety of shooters with different level of shooting experience on TOS. So, please take that for what it's worth. The N4, based on reports here, seems to be a consistent sub-MOA barrel. However, from what I hear, the 3rd GEN OPERATOR's specs have been changed to tighten accuracy. The only way we can know for sure which barrel is more accurate is to have an experienced shooter shoot a 16" N4 and 16" Operator side by side with the same loads and glass. That would be interesting.
Both barrels are made to be HARD use barrels, but, as stated above, it appears that the N4 barrels are a tad more accurate than the Operators. However, when Denny spec'd his barrel he didn't intend for it to be an uber accurate barrel. Denny wasnted wanted a no-nonsense, heavy duty barrel, capable of handling full auto use, which he accomplished. Now, I know that there are some people who simply want the best and most accurate and will go for the N4 barrel, as it does appear to have better accuracy than the 2nd generation Operator based on self-reports. from people with different level of skill. Another key difference is that the N4s are HPT'd whereas the Operator barrels are not, only MPId.
In the end, I don't think you can go wrong with either. I bought an Operator upper, before the N4s came out. I don't have a high mangification scope to really wring out the upper, but I hope to have the needed optics in the near future to see what my Operator can do with 75 gr loads.
Oh, and by the way, I have seen reports of the Operator getting .5 MOA groups with hand loaded 75 gr rounds. The Operator definitely FAVORS the heavier rounds.
blacktail 8541
08-11-08, 23:22
However, when Denny spec'd his barrel he didn't intend for it to be an uber accurate barrel, he wanted a no-nonsense, heavy duty barrel, capable of handling full auto uses, which he accomplished.
Very true.
I've read the reports that the Operator barrels favor the heavier rounds also.
I will try them, but I did not buy this barrel with the expectation of getting a sub moa barrel. Nor should other prospective purchasers. If it does great, but I would not count on it.
I have a couple of different ARs for that. This was built strictly for high round count operation. 2 moa works fine for its' intended use.
I don't have to baby this barrel like my others.
usaffarmer
08-12-08, 01:03
What ammo?
I was printing about 1.75 inch group with Remington 55gr PSP and about .5 inch with XM193 Federal.
next time im at the range i will take a pic of the groups at 100 yards.
and post pics of the rifle.
eltorito71
08-12-08, 10:16
However, when Denny spec'd his barrel he didn't intend for it to be an uber accurate barrel, he wanted a no-nonsense, heavy duty barrel, capable of handling full auto uses, which he accomplished.
Coupled with the price, you just can't beat it (in my opinion).
blacktail 8541
08-13-08, 17:34
Just got back from the range and testing 69 grn loads. With the 6X scope mentioned earlier, groups averaged around 1in. I have no doubt that with more magnification they would be in the sub moa routinely.
spring1271
08-15-08, 18:52
Thanx!!! to all Guess il get an operator for now.
I read after an initial break in the barrel will shoot tighter. I think maybe 200-250 rnds ?
Also you notice the weight.
What weight? It's been a long time since I looked at the Operator, but I thought it would be similar to N4.
Hmm, I also don't recall the O's price as reasonable as an N4 built by Grant, but maybe prices have come down!
urbankaos04
08-20-08, 02:41
What weight? It's been a long time since I looked at the Operator, but I thought it would be similar to N4.
Hmm, I also don't recall the O's price as reasonable as an N4 built by Grant, but maybe prices have come down!
I think the Operator is a wee bit heavier than the N4, as the barrel does seem to be beefier than the N4. It be nice to know HOW MUCH the difference is, though.
An Operator upper (w/out CH, BCG or HGs) runs $469, w/out shipping.
A Noveske N4 upper, built by Grant (w/out CH, BCG, or HGs), runs $500, w/out shipping.
Both have the complete delta assemblies.
I have an Operator upper, but have yet to really test its true accuracy at 100yds. The N4, however, seems to be more accurate upper when comparing N4 user results here to Operator user results on TOS.
ETA: Duh, I forgot aobut MY own thread regarding the weight differences between the Opertor and N4 : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16387
Operator is a top notch barrel. I've got one. It's not cold hammer forged like the Noveske.
The accuracy of the Noveske is unsurpassed (except for maybe MSTN, but you're splitting hairs). However, the Operator is not too far behind and many people (i.e., joe blows like myself) probably wouldn't notice the difference.
Life of an Operator barrel is supposed to be 40,000 rounds (that's straight from Denny). I'll try my hardest to see if that is the case. Noveske I'm sure is in that area too.
What is (MSTN)?
What is (MSTN)?
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=124&t=386718
http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=134
http://www.mstn.biz/
How would the BCM Middy rate to the Noveske and Operator?
How would the BCM Middy rate to the Noveske and Operator?
There might be threads here about this subject.
Here is a thread from another site between the N4 and the Operator but use your own judgment.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=391329&page=2
The Operator is significantly heavier than the BCM.
The only thing negative PERSONNALY is none of the Major League users endorse the Operator which might not mean anything.
There might be threads here about this subject.
Here is a thread from another site between the N4 and the Operator but use your own judgment.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=391329&page=2
The Operator is significantly heavier than the BCM.
The only thing negative PERSONNALY is none of the Major League users endorse the Operator which might not mean anything.
Because it's heavy. They don't endorse any heavy barrels 16" barrels.
urbankaos04
09-01-08, 00:35
I don't know if you can clasify the Operator barrel as a "heavy" barrel. It is a medium contour, which will be heavier than a gov profile barrel, but it's not THAT bad. Look at the comparison between my Operator upper/complete rifle weights and LINDERTW's 14.5" N4 build:
Upper: GTS Operator = 4 lbs. 12 oz.
*16" medium contour barrel (4150 CMV, 5.56, CLE profiled, Mike Rock blanks)
*F/A BCG (BCM)
*CMT charging handle with PRI Big Latch
*Standard handguards
*Factory FSB sling mount absent
*TROY BUIS
Lower: Stag = 2 lbs. 2 oz.
*CMT LPK
*H buffer
*A2 grip
*MagPul CTR stock
Total weight: 6 lbs. 14 oz. (w/BUIS, no sling, no optic)
********************************************************************************
1) N4 light basic upper = 4 lb 5.1 oz
14.5" w/perm attached Surefire 556-212A
F/A BCG
standard charging handle
standard handguards
side sling barrel mount
factory FSB sling mount removed
LaRue BUIS
2) Noveske lower = 2 lb 2 oz
CMT LPK
H buffer
A2 grip
M4 buttstock
factory buttstock sling mount removed
3) total weight = 6 lb 7.1 oz (w/BUIS, no sling, no optic)
4) total weight (w/BUIS, sling, optic) = 7 lb 2.2 oz
My 16" Operator build is running 7 ounces heavier than the 14.5" N4 Noveske. So, I can logically conclude that a 16" Noveske N4 will be right around the same weight.
urbankaos04
09-06-08, 03:36
Because it's heavy. They don't endorse any heavy barrels 16" barrels.
What do you think of the information I posted? I'm also wondering why Denny's Operator doesn't get more press here?
What do you think of the information I posted? I'm also wondering why Denny's Operator doesn't get more press here?
Well, the Operator doesn't have a muzzle device included, so ass 3-4 more oz for that. It's a heavier profile than what many like in a 16" barrel. It's not HBAR-heavy, but's it's definitely heavier than a typical govt profile. I think many might say, "it's not 3-day class worthy".
I don't know why Denny doesn't get any press. The barrels are good. Good steel, good mfg (Mike Rock), good smithing (Frank White from Compass Lake). I like mine so far but it's very low round count. Just one session at the range to get scope sighted in, but at 50, it kicked butt, and this was with ball. I have no doubt it will hold accuracy out past 100, 200. I'ts definitley more accuarte than my BM barrel.
urbankaos04
09-06-08, 13:43
Well, the Operator doesn't have a muzzle device included, so ass 3-4 more oz for that. It's a heavier profile than what many like in a 16" barrel. It's not HBAR-heavy, but's it's definitely heavier than a typical govt profile. I think many might say, "it's not 3-day class worthy".
I don't know why Denny doesn't get any press. The barrels are good. Good steel, good mfg (Mike Rock), good smithing (Frank White from Compass Lake). I like mine so far but it's very low round count. Just one session at the range to get scope sighted in, but at 50, it kicked butt, and this was with ball. I have no doubt it will hold accuracy out past 100, 200. I'ts definitley more accuarte than my BM barrel.
True, it is heavier than a gov profile, but that's a completely different barrel profile. So, I guess the Noveske would be something like a slimmer medium contour?
As for the weights between the two complete uppers, both were weighed with flash suppressors, BUIS, BCG, CH and standard HGs, not just the barrel itself. The weights came out with only a 7 oz difference, with the Operator being the heavier of the two. But, how much less of a difference would it have been had the owner had a 16" upper?
As for the gun not being 3 day class worthy, all I know is that after I use and shoot my 18" SEI M1A my Operator rifle feels as light as a freaking cotton ball!!
True, it is heavier than a gov profile, but that's a completely different barrel profile. So, I guess the Noveske would be something like a slimmer medium contour?
As for the weights between the two complete uppers, both were weighed with flash suppressors, BUIS, BCG, CH and standard HGs, not just the barrel itself. The weights came out with only a 7 oz difference, with the Operator being the heavier of the two. But, how much less of a difference would it have been had the owner had a 16" upper?
As for the gun not being 3 day class worthy, all I know is that after I use and shoot my 18" SEI M1A my Operator rifle feels as light as a freaking cotton ball!!
I tend to think you can mitigate some of the weight delta by picking a good stock that balances things out. A heavier weapon with good balance can subjectively weigh less than a lighter weapon that's muzzle heavy.
Having said that, if you plan on placing a heavy piece of glass and a light and VFG on an Operator, it will get heavy.
Comparing the two is unfair. The Noveske N4 barrel series has no peer. I'll point out that doesn't make the other barrel bad by any stretch.
urbankaos04
09-07-08, 16:23
I agree that it appears that the N4 barrels do outshoot the Operator barrels based on the feedback from end users here and on the TOS. In addition, the N4 barrels are HPTd/MPId whereas the Operator barrels are only MPId. And, the last thing is the weight difference, but I don't really know how much heavier a completed standard Operator upper is than an N4 Light Recce Basic 16" Upper, both with standard HGs, auto BCG, CH, flash suppressor and BUIS.
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