View Full Version : New LPV's from anyone for SHOT '16?
Anyone? I haven't heard hardly a peep about ANYTHING for SHOT '16? Is it going to be uber lame again, or is it that everyone is keeping their mouth shut this go around in hopes of it being awesome? Or did I somehow miss a new LPV about to come out from anyone? (subject of this forum/thread)
I will be checking for them while there but I suspect we are levelling out
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It'd be nice if leupold would make a 1-6 patrol firedot with some kind of turret lock. Or a pst in 1-6.
Sell it for 600- 750$. That would be a happy day. Instead they seem to want to focus on 1800- 4000 , dollar optics, or cheap nc star level optical quality.
I really really like the razor. Hate that it weighs one metric ton.
Don't understand why it's so hard. Make it weigh less than 17oz. Give it good illumination. Give it vxr or pst type glass that's not shitty like some of the other lpvs. Give it a decent reticle. Make it not cost 2 or 3 mortgage payments..... Why is this so hard.....
Not newly released, but by SHOT 2016 it looks like the Bushnell ET1625DP will finally be available.
1-6.5x 24mm objective, with an FFP etched reticle and an SFP daylight-bright dot at the center. Locking target turrets, 1/10th mil clicks. It's definitely heavy at 23 oz though. With an Aero Precision mount it'll end up around 26 oz. Cost of the optic looks like 1499 online, with time and some coupons it'll probably end up closer to 1200 USD.
Anyone? I haven't heard hardly a peep about ANYTHING for SHOT '16? Is it going to be uber lame again, or is it that everyone is keeping their mouth shut this go around in hopes of it being awesome? Or did I somehow miss a new LPV about to come out from anyone? (subject of this forum/thread)
Elcan just released a 1-3-9 optic. Can't speak to qualify as I stopped following them when their 1-4 had issues holding zero. They may have worked that out by now.
5.56: https://dsgarms.com/atitfov139-c1
7.62: https://dsgarms.com/atitfov139-c2
ETA: and for $2900 I won't be partaking.
Elcan just released a 1-3-9 optic. Can't speak to qualify as I stopped following them when their 1-4 had issues holding zero. They may have worked that out by now.
5.56: https://dsgarms.com/atitfov139-c1
7.62: https://dsgarms.com/atitfov139-c2
ETA: and for $2900 I won't be partaking.
An added bonus.... You can use it to anchor your boat with. I have often wondered why someone doesn't make a 1 or 4-6 scope because the variable feature is worthless in a LPV but 1.9 pounds without a mount kills it for me.
I would not bet the farm on it, but I think there is a very good chance we will see a Nightforce 1-6x or 1-8x scope at SHOT and later on a Geissele scope mount for it .
I would not bet the farm on it, but I think there is a very good chance we will see a Nightforce 1-6x or 1-8x scope at SHOT and later on a Geissele scope mount for it .
I've heard the same re NF. There have already been stories and photos regarding Geissele scope mount - it is just pending commercial release.
I would not bet the farm on it, but I think there is a very good chance we will see a Nightforce 1-6x or 1-8x scope at SHOT and later on a Geissele scope mount for it .
This is the one I've been waiting for.
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misanthropist
01-05-16, 23:38
A couple of different major optics companies have told us that they're about to release some big stuff for the tactical shooter and one company strongly implied they've got a new LPV that will interest everyone, but nobody's given up anything concrete, and definitely nothing that they'd want leaked.
The only real reason I think it's moderately likely is that I haven't heard half as many rumours as other years, when I've usually been disappointed.
I've dug a little bit, and I don't think anything interesting is going to come of SHOT this year in the optics world.
Not sure if this will be released at SHOT or not, but it's new.
Burris XTRII 1-8x24
http://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/xtr-ii-riflescopes-series/xtr-ii-riflescope-1-8x24
Not sure if this will be released at SHOT or not, but it's new.
Burris XTRII 1-8x24
http://www.burrisoptics.com/scopes/xtr-ii-riflescopes-series/xtr-ii-riflescope-1-8x24
Kind of disappointing. I was hoping for a Minox ZP8 style optic at a lower price.
SIG has launched a new 1-4X and a 1-6X LPV called the Tango4 and Tango6 respectively, http://www.sigoptics.com/tactical-riflescopes-overview/. I had a chance to play with their Tango6 3-18x scope today and came away impressed. My buddy, who is a devout Nightforce user, had them and is also very impressed.
I've heard the same re NF. There have already been stories and photos regarding Geissele scope mount - it is just pending commercial release.
Nightforce told me NO on the 1-6.
I think the Geissele mount was built for a Vortex 1-6.
Nightforce told me NO on the 1-6.
I think the Geissele mount was built for a Vortex 1-6.
Did they say no to a 1-8x?
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Did they say no to a 1-8x?
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Hmmmmm.. Didn't even ask about that.
I seem to recall rumors of a 1-8 from an Nf rep on snipers hide.
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Just saw on YouTube EOTECH has a 1-6 etched reticle. On gunblast's channel.
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I seem to recall rumors of a 1-8 from an Nf rep on snipers hide.
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This is the one I've been waiting for.
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Looks sorta interesting
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/18/shot-2016-range-day-minox-zp-8/
PatrioticDisorder
01-19-16, 14:57
Looks sorta interesting
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/18/shot-2016-range-day-minox-zp-8/
On paper that looks like a great scope, 1-8 with true 1x red dot (SFP red dot), nice FFP reticle, 123ft field of view on 1x, only knock is it is 24oz but I guess that is to be expected with a 1-8.
That and the high price. I guess you gotta pay to play.
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PatrioticDisorder
01-19-16, 16:09
That and the high price. I guess you gotta pay to play.
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Compared to the CQBSS & 1-8 short dot the price isn't bad at all. With it's feature set, assuming no glaring quirks, looks like a solid choice. SFP red dot that only appears 1-2.5, FFP reticle that appears to also be illuminated with excellent field of view and euro glass is a huge winner and a value at $2,800-2,900. CQBSS has flickering red dot, no illuminated reticle (Horus is hard to use according to many against darker backgrounds), S&B has less than stellar reticles, neither have the field of view this new 1-8 has...
Yeah 1-8 with that fov is attractive.
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Digital_Damage
01-19-16, 17:23
Looks sorta interesting
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/18/shot-2016-range-day-minox-zp-8/
it has been out for awhile.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?176047-Talk-to-me-about-the-Minox-ZP8-1-8x24-MR10
one legitimate knock is no half mil marks, everything else looks awesome.
sinlessorrow
01-19-16, 18:37
EOtech was a 1-6x on display.
EOtech was a 1-6x on display.
I don't know how much I trust Eotech right now, especially for their first forays into scopes.
Aimpoint releasing a 6x magnifier. 8 oz.
New eotech scopes
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/joe-grine/new-from-eotech-precision-rifle-scopes/
PatrioticDisorder
01-19-16, 20:20
Aimpoint releasing a 6x magnifier. 8 oz.
Any more info on this?
http://soldiersystems.net/2016/01/18/firstspear-range-day-aimpoint-magnifiers/
I didn't find a lot. By here's a thread on light fighter where a dude that looked through one was impressed.
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Quick vid of ap magnifiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD6ud09YnWA
Aimpoint 6x is 8oz? I'll believe thay when I see it printed from AP...
All I saw was a crappy phone pic of the aimpoint presentation.
If it comes in that light with clear glass, itmight change the balance of the lpv game.
I don't understand why eotech made their 1-6 ffp...... Hopefully it's bright enough.
Not a fan of Eotech currently but the 2.5-10x does look interesting.
Digital_Damage
01-20-16, 09:41
All I saw was a crappy phone pic of the aimpoint presentation.
If it comes in that light with clear glass, itmight change the balance of the lpv game.
I highly doubt that.
The image consistency and resolution is just not good enough on Object reflective RDS to take it to 6x. It is going to look terrible.
Digital_Damage
01-20-16, 09:44
I don't understand why eotech made their 1-6 ffp...... Hopefully it's bright enough.
The entire industry except NF is making the change.
FFP reticle, and SFP illumination is the new norm and despite what NF says and many on here say, there are a lot of good reasons why it is FFP.
The entire industry except NF is making the change.
FFP reticle, and SFP illumination is the new norm and despite what NF says and many on here say, there are a lot of good reasons why it is FFP.
I looked through the vcog one time, and was very disappointed in how bright it was.
The mark six seems to have the same issue. I've never actually looked through one, but there seems to be a lot of commentary out there of its brightness.
It's too bad it's taking this long to get a decent lpv that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
The burris 1-5 is really the only one that meets all of the criteria and costs less than a thousand.
I hear what you're saying on the magnifier at 6 power. But hey, a guy can dream right? A clear 6 power magnifier with an Aimpoint would be simply amazing. Especially if the entire combination weighed less than 20 ounces mounted.
If Leupold would just make it TMR fire dot in one by 6, that would be really awesome. I do not understand why they haven't done yet. Or if your vortex made a 1x6 that was a similar glass quality to the better PST.
The entire industry except NF is making the change.
FFP reticle, and SFP illumination is the new norm and despite what NF says and many on here say, there are a lot of good reasons why it is FFP.
It's definitely the most appealing solution but it looks like there are a lot of problems involved in keeping the FFP and SFP aligned perfectly.
Digital_Damage
01-20-16, 11:07
It's definitely the most appealing solution but it looks like there are a lot of problems involved in keeping the FFP and SFP aligned perfectly.
We have not seen that in most of the testing we have done with known quality brands with good tracking. The only time is has posed an issue is when the tracking of the scope itself is off and should be returned to manufacture for repair.
We have not seen that in most of the testing we have done with known quality brands with good tracking. The only time is has posed an issue is when the tracking of the scope itself is off and should be returned to manufacture for repair.
Right, but the issue for the most part the issue is that this issue has been reported on even reputable brands such as US Optics with their SR-8C/SR-4C. I suspect that this will go away as QA and design improves but there are definitely teething pains involved in this technology.
Digital_Damage
01-20-16, 12:18
Right, but the issue for the most part the issue is that this issue has been reported on even reputable brands such as US Optics with their SR-8C/SR-4C. I suspect that this will go away as QA and design improves but there are definitely teething pains involved in this technology.
It has nothing to do with FFP, SFP ill technology.
Even with scopes that only have SFP or FFP, every brand puts out scopes with poor tracking. That is why the very first thing you should do is not zero your scope, it is to test the tracking. I would estimate 3 out of every 10 S&B 's we tested did not track correctly out of the box.
It has nothing to do with FFP, SFP ill technology.
Even with scopes that only have SFP or FFP, every brand puts out scopes with poor tracking. That is why the very first thing you should do is not zero your scope, it is to test the tracking. I would estimate 3 out of every 10 S&B 's we tested did not track correctly out of the box.
Interesting. At any rate, I think the only daylight bright DFP LPVs released so far are the Minox ZP8, Weaver Tactical 1-7x24mm, USO SR-4C, SR-8C, Burris XTR II 1.5-8x28, and the Bushnell ET1625DP. Of these, the Bushnell is still MIA and I haven't seen anyone actually report that they have one, but it's one of the most interesting in terms of reticle, price, and feature set. IOR Valdada also has a 1-10x26mm DFP optic, but some user reports suggest that it really isn't daylight bright no matter SFP or FFP illumination.
Lucid has a new 1-6x for pretty low cash.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/01/21/shot-2016-lucid/
I highly doubt that.
The image consistency and resolution is just not good enough on Object reflective RDS to take it to 6x. It is going to look terrible.
Per the Aimpoint Reps at SHOT Show, the 6x is optimized for the T-2/H-2 optics, due to the updated glass and dot. I had a chance to play with one for a little while at their booth. It is 8oz and the glass is very nice. This was probably the one thing that I said that I would buy right now, outside of an SR25 APC with M-Lok and a Hodge 12.5" SBR. Would it replace a solid LPV, no, but it will have a place for some, think LE/Mil DMR/Perimeter work. There are only four of them in the country right now, but expect to see them starting to show up in larger numbers in the very near future. I know one specialized LE unit in California has them on order for their cover team on entries.
Singlestack Wonder
01-23-16, 14:29
Per the Aimpoint Reps at SHOT Show, the 6x is optimized for the T-2/H-2 optics, due to the updated glass and dot. I had a chance to play with one for a little while at their booth. It is 8oz and the glass is very nice. This was probably the one thing that I said that I would buy right now, outside of an SR25 APC with M-Lok and a Hodge 12.5" SBR. Would it replace a solid LPV, no, but it will have a place for some, think LE/Mil DMR/Perimeter work. There are only four of them in the country right now, but expect to see them starting to show up in larger numbers in the very near future. I know one specialized LE unit in California has them on order for their cover team on entries.
One of the most commonly stated dislikes with RDS magnifiers is that the dot increases in size with the image when looking thru the magnifier (yes, it retains scale perspective with the target). With a 6x magnifier, even though more magnification of images at longer ranges are a caveat, at 100 yards the dot (assuming one is using a T1) would be 12MOA to the eye and with the target magnified 6x. Moving forward, an extra long eye relief magnifier that could be mounted in front of the RDS and would still allow the user 3-4" of eye relief behind the RDS would be (in my opinion) a good seller. At 6x (using Aimpoint's new product as an example), while the target is magnified 6x, the RDS dot stays the same size (while becoming smaller in perspective to the target) allowing more precise shots on the target.
RiflemanBobcat
01-23-16, 14:36
One of the most commonly stated dislikes with RDS magnifiers is that the dot increases in size with the image when looking thru the magnifier (yes, it retains scale perspective with the target). With a 6x magnifier, even though more magnification of images at longer ranges are a caveat, at 100 yards the dot (assuming one is using a T1) would be 12MOA to the eye and with the target magnified 6x. Moving forward, an extra long eye relief magnifier that could be mounted in front of the RDS and would still allow the user 3-4" of eye relief behind the RDS would be (in my opinion) a good seller. At 6x (using Aimpoint's new product as an example), while the target is magnified 6x, the RDS dot stays the same size (while becoming smaller in perspective to the target) allowing more precise shots on the target.
No, if the dot and target are magnified the same, then a 2MOA dot will still be 2MOA. It'll just look bigger, but it will still subtend the same area on the target; same as a FFP variable.
If the dot didn't magnify with the target (imagine placing the magnifier in front of the RDS), then the dot's subtension downrange will actually get smaller in MOA terms. SFP variable optics are this way as you increase magnification.
Singlestack Wonder
01-23-16, 15:47
No, if the dot and target are magnified the same, then a 2MOA dot will still be 2MOA. It'll just look bigger, but it will still subtend the same area on the target; same as a FFP variable.
If the dot didn't magnify with the target (imagine placing the magnifier in front of the RDS), then the dot's subtension downrange will actually get smaller in MOA terms. SFP variable optics are this way as you increase magnification.
That's exactly what I stated...re-read the post. It will still be 2 MOA in relation to the target but increase in size viewed by the eye to 6 times.
I've experimented with using the magnifer in front of the Aimpoint and the larger target image in relation to lthe non-magnified dot presented a precise aiming environment. The .25" eye relief behind the T1 was less than ideal for real world use.
RiflemanBobcat
01-23-16, 16:37
That's exactly what I stated...re-read the post. It will still be 2 MOA in relation to the target but increase in size viewed by the eye to 6 times.
I've experimented with using the magnifer in front of the Aimpoint and the larger target image in relation to lthe non-magnified dot presented a precise aiming environment. The .25" eye relief behind the T1 was less than ideal for real world use.
You said 6x would make the dot "12MOA to the eye," which is incorrect. It will still be 2MOA to eye and target, because MOA (or mil) subtension is determined downrange.
I used the placement of magnifier as a hypothetical to illustate a concept, not as a suggestion for use ;)
Singlestack Wonder
01-23-16, 17:58
You said 6x would make the dot "12MOA to the eye," which is incorrect. It will still be 2MOA to eye and target, because MOA (or mil) subtension is determined downrange.
I used the placement of magnifier as a hypothetical to illustate a concept, not as a suggestion for use ;)
Compared to a non-magnified 2moa dot, it will be 6x larger so in comparison to the eye at the magnifier the dot is represented 6 times larger while measuring approx. 2 inches at the target....anyway the bigger picture of the statement is the feasibility of an extra long eye relief magnifier.
Compared to a non-magnified 2moa dot, it will be 6x larger so in comparison to the eye at the magnifier the dot is represented 6 times larger while measuring approx. 2 inches at the target....anyway the bigger picture of the statement is the feasibility of an extra long eye relief magnifier.
Are people really needing long eye relief with AR-15s? With most LPVs I've found that an SPR cantilever mount is needed to really get proper optics placement.
Digital_Damage
01-24-16, 12:46
Per the Aimpoint Reps at SHOT Show, the 6x is optimized for the T-2/H-2 optics, due to the updated glass and dot. I had a chance to play with one for a little while at their booth. It is 8oz and the glass is very nice. This was probably the one thing that I said that I would buy right now, outside of an SR25 APC with M-Lok and a Hodge 12.5" SBR. Would it replace a solid LPV, no, but it will have a place for some, think LE/Mil DMR/Perimeter work. There are only four of them in the country right now, but expect to see them starting to show up in larger numbers in the very near future. I know one specialized LE unit in California has them on order for their cover team on entries.
A lot of nonsense in this.
Optimized glass and dot? It is still a canted objective reflective optic. All the image shift, distortion and other issues with a canted objective is going to be magnified. Parallax will also becomes a serious issue.
With the 70 rule you are not going to get an LE agency to sign off on use of these... If some group is purchasing them they are ripping the tax payers off. Over watch for an entry team with an aimpoint? come on...
Longest successful soft target shot taken by LE in the last 30 years (as of two years ago since the DOJ last reported the stat) is 51 yards...
Longest successful soft target shot taken by LE in the last 30 years (as of two years ago since the DOJ last reported the stat) is 51 yards...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/06/austin-cop-sure-shot-stopped-crazed-gunman.html
About a year ago, 100 yd shot with .40S&W.
sinlessorrow
01-24-16, 13:18
Per the Aimpoint Reps at SHOT Show, the 6x is optimized for the T-2/H-2 optics, due to the updated glass and dot. I had a chance to play with one for a little while at their booth. It is 8oz and the glass is very nice. This was probably the one thing that I said that I would buy right now, outside of an SR25 APC with M-Lok and a Hodge 12.5" SBR. Would it replace a solid LPV, no, but it will have a place for some, think LE/Mil DMR/Perimeter work. There are only four of them in the country right now, but expect to see them starting to show up in larger numbers in the very near future. I know one specialized LE unit in California has them on order for their cover team on entries.
It will work with the M4 and M4S though?
Digital_Damage
01-24-16, 16:21
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/06/austin-cop-sure-shot-stopped-crazed-gunman.html
About a year ago, 100 yd shot with .40S&W.
ya, not sure how I feel about the breaking of the 70 rule being celebrated. More than likely a hope and a prayer.
Even at 100, 6x is wildly out of place.
A lot of nonsense in this.
Optimized glass and dot? It is still a canted objective reflective optic. All the image shift, distortion and other issues with a canted objective is going to be magnified. Parallax will also becomes a serious issue.
With the 70 rule you are not going to get an LE agency to sign off on use of these... If some group is purchasing them they are ripping the tax payers off. Over watch for an entry team with an aimpoint? come on...
Longest successful soft target shot taken by LE in the last 30 years (as of two years ago since the DOJ last reported the stat) is 51 yards...
So you were there with me and had the conversation with multiple Aimpoint Reps, who are also retired LEO? Either way, this is what all of the AP reps were saying with regard to the 6x.
Digital_Damage
01-24-16, 18:03
So you were there with me and had the conversation with multiple Aimpoint Reps, who are also retired LEO? Either way, this is what all of the AP reps were saying with regard to the 6x.
Those reps are there for one reason, to sell products... facts and physics be damned.
Well thanks for that Captain Obvious. Regardless of why they are there, they are required to know and understand the products that they sell. I would also expect the AP engineers to do their homework. It is not designed to replace a LPV, but it has its place, even if you don't agree with it.
Primus Pilum
02-10-16, 14:03
Not newly released, but by SHOT 2016 it looks like the Bushnell ET1625DP will finally be available.
1-6.5x 24mm objective, with an FFP etched reticle and an SFP daylight-bright dot at the center. Locking target turrets, 1/10th mil clicks. It's definitely heavy at 23 oz though. With an Aero Precision mount it'll end up around 26 oz. Cost of the optic looks like 1499 online, with time and some coupons it'll probably end up closer to 1200 USD.
Does it have the newer turrets or the older plastic capped ones? That's my only real beef with the Bushnell 6.5x. Does it still have that silly fold down throw lever like the $200 scopes? I have been waiting for this model for a couple years and the .MIL/LEO price last year for this model was supposed to be $1050.
Does it have the newer turrets or the older plastic capped ones? That's my only real beef with the Bushnell 6.5x. Does it still have that silly fold down throw lever like the $200 scopes? I have been waiting for this model for a couple years and the .MIL/LEO price last year for this model was supposed to be $1050.
http://bushnell.com/tactical/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/smrs-1-6-5x-25mm
It looks like it has the same turret design as the 1-8.5x24mm ET18524 optic. It looks like it still has the weird folding throw lever but seeing as how no one seems to actually have a production unit it's hard to say what the actual unit will be like.
http://bushnell.com/tactical/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/smrs-1-6-5x-25mm
It looks like it has the same turret design as the 1-8.5x24mm ET18524 optic. It looks like it still has the weird folding throw lever but seeing as how no one seems to actually have a production unit it's hard to say what the actual unit will be like.
I know people with the 1-6 and 1-8.5. They are nice scopes, but the 1-8 is particularly heavy. They have good things to say about the glass, though.
Primus Pilum
02-11-16, 09:09
http://bushnell.com/tactical/rifle-scopes/elite-tactical/smrs-1-6-5x-25mm
It looks like it has the same turret design as the 1-8.5x24mm ET18524 optic. It looks like it still has the weird folding throw lever but seeing as how no one seems to actually have a production unit it's hard to say what the actual unit will be like.
Yea thats been in bushy media for the last 2 years. It was supposed to be released over a year ago, but I think they had issues with the DFP. Alpha Landingham who was bushnell's military/leo rep gave me the price a while ago.
I figured there may have been a redesign or something since they are taking forever to release.
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