View Full Version : Has anyone ever used a knock off Chinese copy optic.....
such as this setup: http://cgi.ebay.com/Aimpoint-Comp-M4-3x-Magnifier-clones-w-mounts-Package_W0QQitemZ180273846190QQihZ008QQcategoryZ66827QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Are they worth a damn? Would anybody ever consider getting one, why or why not? I put an order in already for an Aimpoint M4S so I have made my decision, however I am curious if anyone has tried one of the generic models.
they seem to be popular in my neck of the woods. lots of people use them knowing full well they're knock-offs and don't seem to care that it's blatant theft, so i've had the chance to see quite a few. some models look like they were made in the same factory, but most of them are complete crap.
i wouldn't consider using/owning one for ethical reasons.
ethics aside, i'd sooner put an ncstar on my gun. at least it would have a warranty so when it comes apart after 5 or 6 rounds, i'd have some recourse.
Thanks for the reply. Does anybody have more experience with them or know of the better ones to select from. I mean $280 for a sight plus magnifier is a lot more feasible than $1200.
I am just wondering about the quality and accuracy of them. Thanks for the input.
If you want something that says Aimpoint on it, buy an Aimpoint. If you just want a budget optic, I'd look into something like the Vortex Strikefire (apparently they're a sight sponsor now, see link above) or a S.P.O.T. red dot. They're servicable for a range gun.
what would make one of those better than a Chinese knock off. Are you just speculating or do you have concrete reasons as to why you are saying what you are? Thanks
Army Chief
08-11-08, 02:18
I've absolutely no wish to be unkind, but even posing a question like this causes one to question your intentions a bit.
If you're just trying to build a weapon that "looks right," then perhaps a cheap knock-off will suit your needs; if, on the other hand, you're trying to build a weapon that actually "shoots right," then you really need to ante up for quality. I can state with some certainty that most every member of this forum would much prefer to go with the genuine article, even if it meant a longer wait.
The old axiom "you get what you pay for" is especially true in the world of optics, and aside from the obvious ethical considerations, there is no way that I would trust a Chinese clone to deliver on the firing line -- or in harm's way. That may sound elitist, but there are better courses of action available if you genuinely cannot afford the best equipment.
I'm not suggesting that the knock-off wouldn't work well for a period of time, or allow you to train until you got something better, but in terms of component design, quality of manufacture and product backing, you are completely rolling the dice with this approach. Given the purposes of a fighting carbine, I should think that the perils of such an approach would be self-evident. Just because one component looks very much like another, that does not mean that they are in any way equal, and there are a great many things that can go wrong when producing a copy, from the mount to the coatings to the electronics.
Given the lengths to which Aimpoint goes to develop and produce world-class sights, I woudn't really feel comfortable with anything less in this class of optics. What I would do, however, is consider an older model which is certain to be more affordable, now that the 4S is getting all of the press. I'm sure a Comp M2 or M3 could be found in your price range, and either of these would be a more credible choice.
Chief
True. I was not actually considering a generic, I was just curious about them. I am going to pony up for an Aimpoint CompM4S. I will have to save a little more for the magnifier, if I find I even need it.
Thanks for the help.
There is a tacked thread on TOS that is a must read for anyone think about this CHICOM crap. Once you see what is inside of these knock off POS sights, you will never think twice about them. It is called "How to recognize a fake Aimpoint".
Anyone actually used one of those Vortex? Might be viable on a .22 upper.
what would make one of those better than a Chinese knock off. Are you just speculating or do you have concrete reasons as to why you are saying what you are? Thanks
What I was saying, as others have touched on, is that I wouldn't want to support anyone who was performing blatant infringement of Aimpoint. Using their name, exact design, etc. It'd be like going to the store, buying a nice new CD on sale half-off, and then taking it home and opening it to find a CD-RW labeled with a sharpie in the case. It's not so much that I paid less and got less, but that it was done in a shady way.
There are plenty of budget optics that at least stand on their own two feet of their own name, without trying to make a buck off Aimpoint's hard work and name recognition.
Loknlod, it almost sounds like you are inferring that these knocks offs are comparable in some way. I mean if there weren't then how can there be any competition.
Honestly if there are similar, then that would in fact mean Aimpoint is making a rather large profit margin. I have never been one to want to over pay for something. If someone can make the same thing for less then good for them.
I am not inferring that the Chinese do that because in most cases they make crap. I just was wondering the differences.
Loknlod, it almost sounds like you are inferring that these knocks offs are comparable in some way. I mean if there weren't then how can there be any competition.
Honestly if there are similar, then that would in fact mean Aimpoint is making a rather large profit margin. I have never been one to want to over pay for something. If someone can make the same thing for less then good for them.
I am not inferring that the Chinese do that because in most cases they make crap. I just was wondering the differences.
Just to clarify, I don't think the Chinese knock-offs of the Aimpoints are comparable in quality or durablility, or even functionality (heck they've got some weird red/green swappable retical?). I do think it's an unethical business practice to build an exact cosmetic copy of the aimpoint, including logos and all, put cheapo guts in it, and then sell it knowingly misleading people. I can see the use of such an optic for a toy rifle like for airsoft, but that's about it -- and even then I hate to see unlicensed Chinese rip-offs make money.
The other budget optics, I don't think they'll be as durable as an Aimpoint either. But they could very well be servicable on a .22 conversion, plinker, hunting rifle, or even for competitions. But I wouldn't want to trust my life to one. They may (or may not) be of better quality than the Chinese rip-off versions, but at least their main selling point isn't some other company's name written on the side.
There are two separate issues at hand:
-Quality vs. price vs. value -- I don't think the cheaper optics are up to Aimpoint's standards, but I do think there are applications where they are perfectly acceptable to use.
-Infringement -- Given that there are non-ripoff budget optics out there, I wouldn't buy one of the rip-offs that are basically stealing Aimpoint's design and name (at least cosmetically).
Couple of points.
A) It's exactly the Walmart "it looks just like the real thing and it costs 1/3 as much so let's just get the POS Chinese version" that is causing the global economy to become Chino-centric. Support that if you like.
B) What the people in "A" above don't realize is that "looks like" isn't the same thing as "same quality". You know, kind of like ARs.
C) Most people buying "looks like" optics and other gear are frankly not qualified to make comment on the quality of same as relates to the original piece of gear. Witness the recent Surefire 900 thread where someone with zero experience with the real deal was trying to claim that his knockoff was "just as good".
D) If you're still confused, the arfcom thread mentioned earlier is here (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=367860).
E) I have never seen a copy make it through a training class, or even more than a couple of matches. It just doesn't happen. They lose the ability to adjust, or just shut off, or launch off the gun when the mount fails. Either way, they soon realize that "as good as", isn't.
In conclusion, only scumbags and idiots buy knockoffs. Either you're willing to shortcut the original developer because you *think* you're getting the same product for less money (in which case you're a scumbag) or you actually believe that the POS that you buy for 1/3 the price is going to give you the same performance, or just care that it looks like the real thing to impress your buds (in either case you're an idiot).
If you want a cheap red dot that's good forget about knockoffs and just get this.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=425182
Cheaper than that ebay junk and guess what? It works.
There is a tacked thread on TOS that is a must read for anyone think about this CHICOM crap. Once you see what is inside of these knock off POS sights, you will never think twice about them. It is called "How to recognize a fake Aimpoint".
Quoted for the TRUTH!!!!
While it is true that aimpoint copies and other chinese articles can be used for plinking they will not last long and they are no substitute for the real thing.
An above poster inquired as to whether or not you are going for a rifle that looks right or shoots right.
That right there is a great little comment and that poster is 100% right.
If you want an optic that wont let the rifle down, go for the real article. If you spend time at the bench and you're fully aware of what it is that you're buying and you have no problems buying a counterfeit cheap product, buy the replica.
Just please, be aware of the difference.
I already ordered the CompM4S. That is kinda what I was thinking, along with the glass possibly sucking as well.
TheActivePatriot
08-11-08, 18:29
The best advice I've ever heard regarding cheap optics is, you're better off with irons than substandard glass.
Be warned! There is a chinese company offering knock offs of LaRue optics mounts now. I'm willing to bet they will be passing them off as genuine on the auction sites soon.
You might as well go down to wally world and get one of these:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5684938
or you could get one of these:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=7079451
At least wally world has a 90 day return policy so you may just get out and shoot with it in time to return.
unless your going for the look on your airsoft I say look for used or just save up .
Just to clarify, I don't think the Chinese knock-offs of the Aimpoints are comparable in quality or durablility, or even functionality (heck they've got some weird red/green swappable retical?). I do think it's an unethical business practice to build an exact cosmetic copy of the aimpoint, including logos and all, put cheapo guts in it, and then sell it knowingly misleading people. I can see the use of such an optic for a toy rifle like for airsoft, but that's about it -- and even then I hate to see unlicensed Chinese rip-offs make money.
The other budget optics, I don't think they'll be as durable as an Aimpoint either. But they could very well be servicable on a .22 conversion, plinker, hunting rifle, or even for competitions. But I wouldn't want to trust my life to one. They may (or may not) be of better quality than the Chinese rip-off versions, but at least their main selling point isn't some other company's name written on the side.
There are two separate issues at hand:
-Quality vs. price vs. value -- I don't think the cheaper optics are up to Aimpoint's standards, but I do think there are applications where they are perfectly acceptable to use.
-Infringement -- Given that there are non-ripoff budget optics out there, I wouldn't buy one of the rip-offs that are basically stealing Aimpoint's design and name (at least cosmetically).
Honestly, the comsemtic issues are pretty minor. Once you see what is actually inside those optics, you'll be outraged at how much they're charging for them. You could do better after walking down to Radio Shack.
ill be honest. i have one of the chinese 3x magnifiers, mounted in a real larue flip mount. the glass is better than the hendsoldt mag it replaced, and the magnification power is higher.
the eye relief and FOV is NOT as good as the aimpoint version.
I use it infrequently, usually only when hunting jackrabbits, so for me, the expenditure of 500 dollars for the real deal wasnt worth it. 40 bucks to a Hong Kong based ebay seller got me the knockoff, and it suits my (non fighting) purposes.
as for the red dots themselves, i wouldnt trust them on a fighting carbine. Although i have considered using knockoff crap to build myself a bottom dollar 22 setup that closely mimicks my real setup. Something that i can train with, and will never be called on for "real" use.
please done construe this as support for companies that knock off other peoples designs. I normally find this repugnant. but i guess i made a bit of an exception for this one item. hypocritical to a certain extent i suppose. but if the 40 dollar knock off wasnt available, and my only other option was the 500 dollar real deal, i just wouldnt have bought anything at all.
I am running one on a Beretta Storm in 9mm. The dot turns off every 3-4 shots! Great fun, adds a new dimension to failure drills.
In most cases you get what you pay for. I have been buying optics for over twenty years for an OEM hunting company. It kind of goes like this, Japan (Great), Korea & Taiwan (good) and then China (SHIT).
Biggest problem is that there is huge inconsistency in quality from unit to unit.
You can hit the lottery every so often and get a great twenty-dollar optic but it is by accident.
Most all big name optic suppliers are sourcing in Asia. Problem is that the factories are plain stupid when it comes to the problem solving. They are not users. They just make it.
The best advice I've ever heard regarding cheap optics is, you're better off with irons than substandard glass.
Agree
ARin,
You should be ashamed of yourself:
Quote from Rob S.
"In conclusion, only scumbags and idiots buy knockoffs."
I am kidding of course, I just wanted to point out what a rude comment that was.
I think there is a place for these products in certain peoples budget. I have used numerous products from China, including the red dots and magnifiers. I would not and I repeat NOT ever advise someone to put one on their duty weapon (with the exception of the 3X magnifier). I do know several officers who setup a secondary weapon the same as their duty weapon with the knockoff stuff. This allows them to practice with an identical weapon without breaking the bank.
Supporting companies that steal ideas and then sell them costs everyone. A lot of money goes into the development of these products and then often times they are copied and sold as counterfeit to the real thing. Unsuspecting buyers are ripped off. None of this crap has any place on any professional's equipment. It's substandard for duty, practice or spare part. It will fail just when you need it to keep you alive. Officers have shown up to training with this crap since the chinese starting violating the copyrights on the items. I've learned to just smile when they show everyone what a great deal they got. None of it lasts the first full day of a rifle class. I don't train with airsoft and I'm not about to put airsoft quality crap on my kit that I need to take downrange.
And as for using on a hobby gun, I can't support the idea because I know I'm supporting a culture that supports and encourages copyright infringement. That's theft and it's always wrong.
as for the red dots themselves, i wouldnt trust them on a fighting carbine.
It's not even that I wouldn't trust one at on a fighting carbine, it's that paying what they're asking for them for ANY use whatsoever is a complete rip-off.
Again, anyone who has not seen the Aimpoint knockoff thread on TOS needs to go take a look.
IroquoisSnakePlissken
08-31-08, 12:34
If you search around on fee-bay you can find cheap, foney-baloney, MagPul knockoffs.
At first glance I was surprised MagPul was making a CTR in Multicam. Then I thought, "That's a little fishy".
Turns out, it was VERY fishy.
Be careful.
My clone works perfectly for my dedicated 22 AR, however I chose to stick with iron sights on my "Fighting" carbine till I can scrounge up the cash for quality optics.
If you search around on fee-bay you can find cheap, foney-baloney, MagPul knockoffs.
At first glance I was surprised MagPul was making a CTR in Multicam. Then I thought, "That's a little fishy".
Turns out, it was VERY fishy.
Be careful.
magpul makes, or licenses airsoft copies of their gear. the MC Miad is one of those items.
IroquoisSnakePlissken
08-31-08, 15:22
I did not know this.
It was pretty cool to see the CTR in Multicam...
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