View Full Version : Remington 700 AAC-SD w/ 16.5" .308?!
I saw this locally the other day. Unless I missed something, this model is not on Remington's website. If I'm not mistaken, the 16.5" barrel is a distributor exclusive. Yes, I did verify that it's a .308 win, not 300BLK. Some searching shows the rifle is capable of reaching out to targets at 500+ yds with the proper user input. What I liked about this rifle is it is quite handy and quick to shoulder- just what I want for a brush gun. The added benefit I think this set up offers is the ability to reach out to 200yds accurately and with enough energy to drop a white tail; my current brush gun is a Marlin 1894 44mag, which I am hesitant to push past 100yds. Most of the white tail I've seen are within 80yds, but there were a few at 200yds that I let go due to open sights and the rain bow trajectory of the 44mag. I'd like a gun that can reach across that gap.
So, a few questions. If I really do feel the need to take game beyond 200-300 yds I have a 7mm rem mag for that. Is hunting with a short .308, what is a realistic range for hunting white tail?
As for loads, the I'm guessing 1/10 twist is suited more for heavier subsonic loads while suppressed. Will the twist rate be too fast for lighter 308 projectiles, such as 150gr? These are available locally so I want to be realistic about the factory loads I can grab if/when a shortage of ammunition and reloading components occurs. The light loads would be targets only, as I feel 168-175 is more appropriate for white tail.
In your collected opinions, is the 16.5" barrel a good compromise for weight/handiness if I'm not reaching past 500yds for gongs or 200yds for hunting? Or is this just some marketing scheme for the couch warriors who want a tacti-cool look?
ETA: meant to post in general bolt gun thread. On iPhone- small screen, big hands
Thanks in advance.
Eurodriver
12-31-15, 15:31
Uhhh...yeah...good luck with that. Mine wouldn't shoot better than 3 MOA with FGMM ammo, and I ended up dropping about $2200 into it to get it to shoot well. (All I had left at that point was the receiver, and even that had been blueprinted and customized)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?164921-Update-2-8-Help-Torque-Specs-for-Precision-bolt-gun-build-ammo-questions-etc
The pics are no longer up, but the majority of groups were around 4" at 100 yards. I wrote a nicely worded letter to Remington and the guys who actually build the things gave me a call and said that unless a rifle shoots worse than FIVE MOA at 100 yards they will not consider it a defect. I love Remington 700s, but I'll never buy one again. Especially a "boutique" model like a 16.5" barrel.
I'm not sure what is going on with this rifle. Today I shot BH 168, BH 175 Moly coated, and Nosler 168 factory match ammo.
The *Best* 5 shot group I had at 100 yards was with the BH 168 and that was ~2 MOA. Take a look at some of these groups and tell me what you think is going on. I was firing from a Caldwell Lead Sled and I'm a decent shooter.
Then I attached the suppressor and shot the top right group without adjusting the sights. I came up ~3 MOA and left 1 MOA and shot the bottom left group (2 rounds in the writing). Then I made a final 2 MOA up adjustment and 1 MOA right adjustment and fired the bottom right corner 3 rounds. This was my best target all day. 5 MOA up seems very excessive for adding a suppressor to a stiff 16" barrel.
In hindsight, I wish I fired 10 rounds of each type of ammo at the same target to get a true group size/zero, but I went with a bunch of buddies who were too busy blasting away (with my ARs!) and hassling me with questions.
Thoughts? Is this normal for a brand new barrel? Is there anything I can or should be doing?
Snow and ice? It was 80 degrees out today and sunny! Was sweating wearing a polo and jeans.
I am upset to report that the rifle's accuracy, while improved, is still shit.
Four guys including me (all are 1000yd competition shooters except me) ended up shooting it. We tried the following combos:
Bare muzzle w/ Leupold Mk4
AAC 51T FH Hand Tight w/ Leupold Mk4
AAC 51T FH Hand Tight w/ AAC 762SD Suppressor w/ Leupold Mk4
Bare Muzzle w/ Night Force ~6-22x? (wasn't mine)
AAC 51T FH Torqued to 20ft lbs w/ Leupold Mk4
We also adjusted the action screws from 25in-lbs to 55 in-lbs in 10in-lb increments.
This 3 round group was the best group all day. It was shot from a rest with match 168gr Handloads, by a 1000 yard Bench Rest High Power competition winner. This was using the Leup Mk4 and FH hand tight.
I guess the "good news" is that adding the FH made no appreciable effect on the precision of the rifle.
My gunsmith was at the range too, and he is going to throw a Bartlein barrel in it after truing the action. If it didn't shoot so poorly before I gave it to him, I'd think it was planned!
Perhaps the most upsetting part of the entire day were the stupid questions though.
"How many rounds ya got through it? Barrel might be shot out!"
-"That was round #95, exactly."
"Oh..."
"Maybe it needs to be front loaded on a bipod to shoot right."
-Does yours?
"No..."
Good news? Looks nice in the HS Precision stock I guess. I think I'm going to have the final product cerakoted FDE which should look nice with the green stock.
Im with Eurodriver, luck of the draw if it shoots well. I had a 20" AAC-SD that was all over the place. Occasionally it would print a good group, but generally it was unpredictable. This was while it was properly torqued into an aluminum chassis and NOT the gumby stock they come with. Played with loads constantly(probably had 250-300 rounds in load development between 4-5 different bullets and powders). Never did find anything "great". "best" was a 44g Varget with 175g SMK load that would shoot 1", but would throw flyers randomly.
Funny enough the 220g SMK/Trailboss subsonic load shot great out of the gun, but was a huge waste for a 308.
Ive got one of the 300blk AAC-SD's and its a 1/2 MOA tack driver.
There are a few other short 308's on the market that I would look at before the Rem 700 AAC-SD.
Thanks, guys. With things like Rugers Gunsite Scout I was thinking there is some merit to shorter .308's, but I was a bit skeptical with the whole 'tactical' labling on the thing. That, and the Remington name seems to tarnished lately.
I would say yes to "some merit to shorter .308's" however just not to the Rem 700 AAC-SD.
There are lots of 16" AR 308's that are fantastic guns with great precision so dont count out the shorter 308 bolt guns either.
The rubber hogue stock rem used on the aac is dumb. It contacts the barrel with regular forward force from a bipod.
The rubber hogue stock rem used on the aac is dumb. It contacts the barrel with regular forward force from a bipod.
I assumed this was the first thing to be replaced, perhaps along with the trigger. I looked at this model as a donor action/barrel, with the stock being range use only. It's apparent Remington made too many compromises to make this particular set up feasible. Like all things, buy once, cry once. Looking at GAP's website....gonna cry some big tears, I think lol.
Thanks, guys. With things like Rugers Gunsite Scout I was thinking there is some merit to shorter .308's, but I was a bit skeptical with the whole 'tactical' labling on the thing.
There is also the Mossberg MVP Patrol.
I just saw a .308 Savage with iron sights and 20" threaded barrel. The Hog Hunter, I think it was called. This might be the brush gun I'm looking for...gotta research it a bit more. As for a dedicated long range rifle, I'm thinking of getting a second 7mm Rem mag just to keep the reloading logistics simple. Any yea or nea votes for the more expensive short or long action Rem 700's, ie, the LTR or XCR models? Do they generally do better with acccuracy than the lower end models?
I just saw a .308 Savage with iron sights and 20" threaded barrel. The Hog Hunter, I think it was called. This might be the brush gun I'm looking for...gotta research it a bit more. As for a dedicated long range rifle, I'm thinking of getting a second 7mm Rem mag just to keep the reloading logistics simple. Any yea or nea votes for the more expensive short or long action Rem 700's, ie, the LTR or XCR models? Do they generally do better with acccuracy than the lower end models?
I'm by no means an expert, but I hear consistently good things and only good things about the "5r" series of Rem 700 rifles. The 223 I've had time on is consistently 1MOA or better with marginal effort and the "meh" factory trigger it came with, so long as I am shooting SMK hand loads. I've not tried it with anything else , so consider it a very narrow minded sample of one.
Any yea or nea votes for the more expensive short or long action Rem 700's, ie, the LTR or XCR models? Do they generally do better with acccuracy than the lower end models?
Like was said the 5r guns seem to get decent write ups, but for me, Remington bolt guns just arent up to speed on a lot of stuff and their quality is iffy. 223 bolt guns with 12 twist? Got to get the 5r to get a 9 twist. Every good bullet in 223 that I would personally want to shoot needs a 7 twist, or at LEAST an 8 twist. 308's that mostly all have 12 twist, 5r has 11.25 twist(optimized for 175g SMK), AAC-SD has 10 twist(but samples I know were sketchy). There are guys shooting 208g AMAX out of 308 loaded real long(single loading) at almost 3", but needs 10 twist barrel.
So if you buy a gun($600+) to use the action(some times cheaper than buying a factory Rem 700 action, if you can find one that is), spend $150 on a nice 20moa base(badger comes to mind), spend money on a good stock(400-1000 bucks) then spend $300 to get action work done, then spend $300 on a new barrel(if your remington barrel doesnt shoot) plus $300-500 for barrel fitting, chamber, re-finishing, threading, etc... and you STILL have a Rem 700 action, you start to come REAL close to buying something in a Defiance or Stiller action. Ive seen Defiance barreled actions with Brux or Bartlein barrels and a trigger going for ~$2k. Resale value on the "custom" actions is always going to exceed a worked over factory Rem 700 action.
Sorry, went off on a tangent there. Point being, if you want a dedicated long range precision gun, your money is better spent on something not factory than getting a Rem 700(in any flavor) and getting it built up to your specs. Just my opinion there. Plus 223 and 308 arent the hot ticket in long range shooting anymore either. 6mm and 6.5mm flavors are whats in right now(im sure 223 and 308 will come back in favor though).
As far as the truck gun/brush gun/200 yard 308 gun, I would look at the Mossberg MVP as I believe it uses a few different types of magazines. Or the Ruger Gunsight scout.
Can't see any reason why it wouldn't work for what you are thinking. If you are talking deer hunting with normal shots being 200 yards or less? That rifle is more the capable. I've owned one of the 20" and 16.5", have a couple of friends who have them as well. The weak spot on the rifle is the stock, but if you are shooting off hand or not really loading the bipod you shouldn't have any problems with the hogue stock.
BigBuckeye
01-03-16, 21:59
Mine shoots lights out with 168 federal gold medal match ammo..
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f398/mgriffin76/image1_zpsnfjjmf55.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/mgriffin76/media/image1_zpsnfjjmf55.jpg.html)
I wish I had bought mine in 300 blk; I wouldve form 1'ed it and had the barrel chopped to 8 or 9" and inletted my HS Precision stock to fit the can. A 16" .308 with a brake and no can sucks, even for the shooter.
I wish I had bought mine in 300 blk; I wouldve form 1'ed it and had the barrel chopped to 8 or 9" and inletted my HS Precision stock to fit the can. A 16" .308 with a brake and no can sucks, even for the shooter.
Now that sounds like a handy deer slayer.
TacMedic556
01-05-16, 16:17
We have experienced good accuracy with the 168 and 174 grain ammunition out of this Remington 700 SPS with the 16.5" barrel. I put some pics up on instagram that had nice clover leaf groups shot at 100 yards. That is upsetting to hear that a guy got a lemon of a gun from Remington and they don't even stand buy it.
This is part II in a series. Be sure and catch part one to see it work at 800.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2-qgBWKI2k
Eurodriver
01-05-16, 17:01
No doubt they can shoot well...if you get one that works. I believe Greg Bell, one of the mods here had one, and his shot cloverleafs at 100 yards too.
I'm just not about to pay $650 and be up the river without a paddle again...five moa. Give me a ****ing break. I can shoot a Glock 19 with an RMR at 100 yards better than 5 moa. They told me because it is a "primarily a hunting rifle" that 5 MOA is acceptable. I told him at 300 yards that's 15 inches and that was the first time I've ever heard someone shrug over the phone.
Now that sounds like a handy deer slayer.
It certainly does. Why the heck didn't I think of that?
TacMedic556
01-06-16, 08:39
Thanks for the heads up Eurodriver. I was considering "cloning" this buddies build but felt uneasy about the costs benefit. This is why I cherish this forum and tell others to join. I fully trust the experiences and opinions of many M4C members like yourself.
At this point I would rather save up buy a good barrel and action, and have Tim Cronin put it together for me. We'll see. Thanks for saving me a headache.
I almost bought a 20" Rem 700 AAC-SD .308 a few weeks ago, but the Hogue Overmold stock pushed me away. That thing is ridiculously flimsy. Instead I left with a 20" 5R .308 with an HS Precision stock... I had a hard time spending what I did, but I know I got a MUCH better rifle. This thing is stupid accurate!
I put a Timney 510 in it and it might be the perfect rifle for what I was looking for.
My 16.5" R700 in .308 shot for shit with the factory stock (2-3 MOA). I put a B&C Tactical Medalist stock on it, and made sure the barrel was free-floated. I threw a Timmny 510 trigger in it at the same time and now I can get 1-2MOA groups with Remington 150gr Core-Lok and .5-.75MOA groups with my hand loaded 175gr SMK/GMK rounds. I guess I lucked out and got a non-friday afternoon made gun. The gun is stock otherwise.
Thanks everyone for the valuable input. It seems like a coin flip with this platform. While most of you guys have acceptable performance, it's obvious that a bad apple is nearly unusable in any practical application. 4-5 MOA at 100 yds is worse than my .44 mag carbine. I was looking for 2-3 MOA (max!) at 200-300 yds. I may or may not achieve that with this model.
Euro, I appreciate your linked thread. I read that when you were actively posting (well, the first dozen pages) and your experience was enough to make me put this particular platform into my "pass by" category. I totally forgot about that when I saw this little rifle at the store. The guys said it was a novelty, and wasn't likely to sell anytime soon. I interpreted that as the possibility for "clearance price" at the end of the quarter and considered taking the plunge if I saw markdowns on it. Not sure if it's worth it...as mentioned, there are other better choices out there. I will continue my research. Thanks again, guys.
I almost bought a 20" Rem 700 AAC-SD .308 a few weeks ago, but the Hogue Overmold stock pushed me away. That thing is ridiculously flimsy. Instead I left with a 20" 5R .308 with an HS Precision stock... I had a hard time spending what I did, but I know I got a MUCH better rifle. This thing is stupid accurate!
I put a Timney 510 in it and it might be the perfect rifle for what I was looking for.
I wish there was a market for those stocks, theyre starting to take over my closet.
SeriousStudent
01-12-16, 22:29
I wish there was a market for those stocks, theyre starting to take over my closet.
I had one of those gummy bear stocks, and hated it so much I threw it in the backyard for my GSD to chew on. He did so, and it gave him a bad case of gassy farts.
Hogue can't even make a dog toy without ****ing it up. :rolleyes:
Holy sh*t... I'm not the only one.
Girlfriend bought me one for Christmas, knew I had been wanting one for a while.
I put a Leupold Mark AR 6-18x40 on it with a Mark 4 base and PRW rings.
Took it out to sight it in last weekend... I could not hit sh*t! Granted I'm not the best shot in the world, but I know I was shooting better than that.
Best I could get out of 5 shots at 100 yards was a 5" group, if that. Honestly I didn't even measure they were so bad. I was using freedommunitions 150gr FMJ ammo. Definitely nothing match quality, still.
Going to pick up some match grade ammo and see what I can get out of it...
Consensus is I need to call and say the gun can't hit a dinner plate at 100 yards???
Sure looks good for hardly being better than a wooden club!
http://www.max713photography.com/photos/i-JjJGW3g/0/L/i-JjJGW3g-L.jpg (http://www.max713photography.com/Other/Posting/n-PJQps/i-JjJGW3g/A)
Like I said, I'm no precision shooter... But I shot this group the same day with my 16" BCM AR with a Leupold 1.5-4, using the same freedommunitions ammo. This one was at 50 yards, 55gr V-Max 223.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1450/23722589253_38b597231b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/C9htix)IMG_6738 (1) (https://flic.kr/p/C9htix) by Max Jacobsen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/max713photography/), on Flickr
Holy sh*t... I'm not the only one.
Girlfriend bought me one for Christmas, knew I had been wanting one for a while.
I put a Leupold Mark AR 6-18x40 on it with a Mark 4 base and PRW rings.
Took it out to sight it in last weekend... I could not hit sh*t! Granted I'm not the best shot in the world, but I know I was shooting better than that.
Best I could get out of 5 shots at 100 yards was a 5" group, if that. Honestly I didn't even measure they were so bad. I was using freedommunitions 150gr FMJ ammo. Definitely nothing match quality, still.
Going to pick up some match grade ammo and see what I can get out of it...
Consensus is I need to call and say the gun can't hit a dinner plate at 100 yards???
Sure looks good for hardly being better than a wooden club!
http://www.max713photography.com/photos/i-JjJGW3g/0/L/i-JjJGW3g-L.jpg (http://www.max713photography.com/Other/Posting/n-PJQps/i-JjJGW3g/A)
Like I said, I'm no precision shooter... But I shot this group the same day with my 16" BCM AR with a Leupold 1.5-4, using the same freedommunitions ammo. This one was at 50 yards, 55gr V-Max 223.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1450/23722589253_38b597231b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/C9htix)IMG_6738 (1) (https://flic.kr/p/C9htix) by Max Jacobsen (https://www.flickr.com/photos/max713photography/), on Flickr
I guarantee it's the stock.
If you want to keep using it, remove the bipod and shoot it off a bag or some other rest... no sling, no bipod.
http://i.imgur.com/uj0sMFR.jpg
Eurodriver
01-13-16, 06:54
I guarantee it's the stock.
If you want to keep using it, remove the bipod and shoot it off a bag or some other rest... no sling, no bipod.
You "guarantee" it? :cool: How can you say something like that when the rifle pictured isn't even a 16.5"? There is something wrong with these guns; the 20" AACs shoot very well. That's literally the exact same advice I was given by folks. Instead of ditching the rifle as I should have, it only caused me to dump more and more money into it. I'm very bitter.
The thread linked to above is evidence. I was shooting 5 MOA and had a professional bed my barreled action in an HS Precision stock and throw a Timney 510 in it because "It's the stock, I guarantee it". My precision wasn't improved until the only factory part left on that gun was the receiver. Am I happy with it? Yes, but for the money I've got in it I could have built up a Surgeon action with the same parts and still came out ahead.
I hope replacing the stock makes it better, but don't be unrealistic Max. A stock isn't making a sub MOA capable stick a 5 MOA shooter. Before you end up $2,000 in the hole taking advice from people who haven't had this problem, try to return the rifle to Remington. I had already cut up the stock when I spoke to them, but if you decide to keep it you've gotta be in for the long haul... Use a dremel to cut away the stock from the barrel and use a torque screw driver to evenly torque the action screws. It will be a complete waste of your time (I did it, too) but it will show you the barrel is the POS and that it isn't the stock.
Here are pics from when I took it to the range after throwing it in an HS Precision stock that was bedded and putting a Timney 510 on it. You can see I was shooting BH Match and FGMM.
I have nothing against Koshinn, but I spent a few weeks being angry as **** at people who kept giving me "Guarantees" about what I needed to do to get my rifle to shoot because no one wanted to accept that Remington 16.5" barrels are complete shit.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/DSC03317_zps5ns6peso.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_1804_zpsfa0it3vj.jpg
This is how it shoots with a Krieger barrel
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/SubstandardFullSizeRender%202_zpsettbz6ji.jpg
...trying to tell me it was the ****ing stock. Give me a break.
You "guarantee" it? :cool: How can you say something like that when the rifle pictured isn't even a 16.5"? There is something wrong with these guns; the 20" AACs shoot very well. That's literally the exact same advice I was given by folks. Instead of ditching the rifle as I should have, it only caused me to dump more and more money into it. I'm very bitter.
The thread linked to above is evidence. I was shooting 5 MOA and had a professional bed my barreled action in an HS Precision stock and throw a Timney 510 in it because "It's the stock, I guarantee it". My precision wasn't improved until the only factory part left on that gun was the receiver. Am I happy with it? Yes, but for the money I've got in it I could have built up a Surgeon action with the same parts and still came out ahead.
I hope replacing the stock makes it better, but don't be unrealistic Max. A stock isn't making a sub MOA capable stick a 5 MOA shooter. Before you end up $2,000 in the hole taking advice from people who haven't had this problem, try to return the rifle to Remington. I had already cut up the stock when I spoke to them, but if you decide to keep it you've gotta be in for the long haul... Use a dremel to cut away the stock from the barrel and use a torque screw driver to evenly torque the action screws. It will be a complete waste of your time (I did it, too) but it will show you the barrel is the POS and that it isn't the stock.
Here are pics from when I took it to the range after throwing it in an HS Precision stock that was bedded and putting a Timney 510 on it. You can see I was shooting BH Match and FGMM.
I have nothing against Koshinn, but I spent a few weeks being angry as **** at people who kept giving me "Guarantees" about what I needed to do to get my rifle to shoot because no one wanted to accept that Remington 16.5" barrels are complete shit.
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/DSC03317_zps5ns6peso.jpg
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/IMG_1804_zpsfa0it3vj.jpg
This is how it shoots with a Krieger barrel
http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w521/6234987u02/SubstandardFullSizeRender%202_zpsettbz6ji.jpg
...trying to tell me it was the ****ing stock. Give me a break.
Ok, I guarantee* it is the stock.
*YMMV, the stock is a piece of shit and you'll likely at least half your group size by switching it out, but you may have other problems as well, such as a friday afternoon barrel on tooling that's at the end of its life. As you well know, even great companies can turn out a lemon every once in a while... and Remington isn't a great company and the 700 AAC-SD isn't a high end rifle. That being said, the Hogue stock is guaranteed to be a major problem if you use a bipod or sling while shooting. It may not fix every problem your particular rifle may have, but changing it to something more rigid and properly bedded (if necessary) will be guaranteed to shrink your groups significantly. Also, group sizes with plinking-grade ammo aren't representative of what a rifle can do. Max was using 150gr FMJ from Freedom...
My brother's AAC-SD went from 4-5 MOA to about 1 MOA by just switching the stock. Yes, the barrel length is different but as the stock is the same, that wouldn't make the stock less likely of a culprit. And the pictured rifle IS a Rem 700 AAC-SD in .308, just with a 20" barrel iirc. Euro, if you switched to your current Krieger barrel but kept the Hogue stock, you would be printing groups much larger.
Eurodriver
01-13-16, 08:26
Ok, I guarantee* it is the stock.
*YMMV, the stock is a piece of shit and you'll likely at least half your group size by switching it out, but you may have other problems as well, such as a friday afternoon barrel on tooling that's at the end of its life. As you well know, even great companies can turn out a lemon every once in a while... and Remington isn't a great company and the 700 AAC-SD isn't a high end rifle. That being said, the Hogue stock is guaranteed to be a major problem if you use a bipod or sling while shooting. It may not fix every problem your particular rifle may have, but changing it to something more rigid and properly bedded (if necessary) will be guaranteed to shrink your groups significantly. Also, group sizes with plinking-grade ammo aren't representative of what a rifle can do. Max was using 150gr FMJ from Freedom...
My brother's AAC-SD went from 4-5 MOA to about 1 MOA by just switching the stock. Yes, the barrel length is different but as the stock is the same, that wouldn't make the stock less likely of a culprit. And the pictured rifle IS a Rem 700 AAC-SD in .308, just with a 20" barrel iirc. Euro, if you switched to your current Krieger barrel but kept the Hogue stock, you would be printing groups much larger.
Exactly. The 20" AAC-SDs shoot notoriously well, whereas the 16.5" are almost universally piss-poor shooters. In fact, I have never seen a 16.5" shoot very well and every 20" I've ever seen or heard about has been a sub MOA laser beam..
No doubt replacing the stock will help, the Hogue is a POS but I'm saying here and now (with images to boot) that my rifle still shot 5 MOA with no improvement on accuracy using different types and weights of match grade ammo after being professionally bedded in a new stock. There was absolutely no noticeable improvement for the $600~ I spent on the bed job, stock, and trigger. Instead of dropping more money on that rifle just to take a gamble, he should try to return that POS before its too late. I think we generally agree with each other, except that you think the gun can be saved and I just want him to run for the hills. Sell that bitch on gunbroker for $400 with the caveat that it shoots like crap. Some idiot Fudd will think you are just a bad shot and buy it off you.
That 700 was the bane of my existence for like 4 solid months. It was like having a boat. Back and forth to the gun smith. Phone calls to Remington. Even progressively less polite handwritten letters were exchanged. Forgive my harsh tone; I just don't want to see OP go through the same BS. :cool:
Co-gnarr, my advice is to go outside and light twenty $100 bills on fire.
There, I just saved you some time.
Exactly. The 20" AAC-SDs shoot notoriously well, whereas the 16.5" are almost universally piss-poor shooters. In fact, I have never seen a 16.5" shoot very well and every 20" I've ever seen or heard about has been a sub MOA laser beam..
No doubt replacing the stock will help, the Hogue is a POS but I'm saying here and now (with images to boot) that my rifle still shot 5 MOA with no improvement on accuracy using different types and weights of match grade ammo after being professionally bedded in a new stock. There was absolutely no noticeable improvement for the $600~ I spent on the bed job, stock, and trigger. Instead of dropping more money on that rifle just to take a gamble, he should try to return that POS before its too late. I think we generally agree with each other, except that you think the gun can be saved and I just want him to run for the hills. Sell that bitch on gunbroker for $400 with the caveat that it shoots like crap. Some idiot Fudd will think you are just a bad shot and buy it off you.
That 700 was the bane of my existence for like 4 solid months. It was like having a boat. Back and forth to the gun smith. Phone calls to Remington. Even progressively less polite handwritten letters were exchanged. Forgive my harsh tone; I just don't want to see OP go through the same BS. :cool:
Co-gnarr, my advice is to go outside and light twenty $100 bills on fire.
There, I just saved you some time.
That's a valid point of view and good advice. He should just get a Surgeon from the start :) Tell the girlfriend.
And the pictured rifle IS a Rem 700 AAC-SD in .308, just with a 20" barrel iirc.
Mine is the 16.5" version as well, also chambered in 308.
Exactly. The 20" AAC-SDs shoot notoriously well, whereas the 16.5" are almost universally piss-poor shooters. In fact, I have never seen a 16.5" shoot very well and every 20" I've ever seen or heard about has been a sub MOA laser beam..
No doubt replacing the stock will help, the Hogue is a POS but I'm saying here and now (with images to boot) that my rifle still shot 5 MOA with no improvement on accuracy using different types and weights of match grade ammo after being professionally bedded in a new stock. There was absolutely no noticeable improvement for the $600~ I spent on the bed job, stock, and trigger. Instead of dropping more money on that rifle just to take a gamble, he should try to return that POS before its too late. I think we generally agree with each other, except that you think the gun can be saved and I just want him to run for the hills. Sell that bitch on gunbroker for $400 with the caveat that it shoots like crap. Some idiot Fudd will think you are just a bad shot and buy it off you.
That 700 was the bane of my existence for like 4 solid months. It was like having a boat. Back and forth to the gun smith. Phone calls to Remington. Even progressively less polite handwritten letters were exchanged. Forgive my harsh tone; I just don't want to see OP go through the same BS. :cool:
Co-gnarr, my advice is to go outside and light twenty $100 bills on fire.
There, I just saved you some time.
This thread makes me sad...
I wanted this damn thing to work! I'll be calling Remington to see what they have to say today.
I'm definitely not prepared to dump $2k into this thing to get it sub-MOA, I've got higher priorities than that (Like an Angstadt Arms 9mm dedicated SBR :D )
Called Remington today. The gal on the phone was helpful, said she had dealt with problems with this model before.
She started a service order, they're paying shipping for me to send the gun back, even scheduled a UPS pickup for it tomorrow. Said they will most likely replace the barrel.
We will see how it comes back... Will report the result.
Co-gnarr, my advice is to go outside and light twenty $100 bills on fire.
There, I just saved you some time.
If I'm not mistaken, you are pursuing a career in finance/CPA? Remind me not to patronize your practice...my wife would not let me off easy...I would hear about that for the rest of my life:p
All jokes aside, I do appreciate you sharing the saga of your Remington experience again. I've moved on and decided that my tight finances won't allow me the luxury of doing everything you've done just to get acceptable performance from a factory rifle. I am just chugging along, saving what's left at the end of the month for something from a more reputable company. Apparently Hogue compromised their standards to meet Remington's spec for a cheaper price point by omitting the full length bedding.For the brush gun application I think the rifle would be fine off the shelf, but honestly, I know I wouldn't be satisfied til I got better target performance. So, adding the cost of a new stock (Magpul's Hunter looks like a great value) and quality rail like Badger the cost is right around that of a Tikka CTR, which comes from the with a factory threaded barrel, a rail, detachable mag a DECENT STOCK.
Any how, the gun sold today. I was looking for ammo when a gentleman came in, looked the rifle over for a minute and then started the paperwork. We spoke briefly and he is well aware of the potential pitfalls. I wish him the best.
Update: Remington received the rifle today, waiting to hear what is being done to it.
Well, got my rifle back today.
According to the service order, it doesn't look like they actually did anything?
They claim to have tested the rifle, I wonder at what distance they "tested" it at?
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/9c746f5d-a9f5-4ec6-beaf-959a8dd110a3_zpsviwhfmp0.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/9c746f5d-a9f5-4ec6-beaf-959a8dd110a3_zpsviwhfmp0.jpg.html)
I'll be testing the "warranty work" tomorrow.
Boxerglocker
02-05-16, 07:55
If you’re still using the factory stock. I would suggest your try the shim trick outlined here in 8541 Tactical video. I own two R700s a 20 inch SPS Tactical in .223 and 20 inch AAC-SD in .308 both sub MOA guns with my hand loads and this trick worked. I have aftermarket stocks for both rifles now but doing the shim trick really helped me assess the potential of my rifles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsQUwzEqvQc
Eurodriver
02-05-16, 23:50
Lol
Shim the stock.
That's the problem!
Boxerglocker
02-06-16, 09:50
Lol
Shim the stock.
That's the problem!
The stock is obviously most likely the problem to me and you. Especially by the group card that Remington sent him back. I don’t read anywhere here in this thread that the Max713 is actually convinced. Just making a suggestion that I know will work help him isolate the stock issue and verify the potential of his particular rifle.
I know the suggested shimming works well enough it will answer his doubts on the rifle.
Eurodriver
02-06-16, 10:16
Did you see the very first reply? I had my action bedded and placed in an HS precision stock and it did nothing for the accuracy. The barrel was garbage.
People telling me the stock was the problem caused me to keep pouring money into something that should have been thrown in the garbage.
I'm very bitter that I have a factory Remington action right now instead of a Surgeon
Boxerglocker
02-06-16, 10:31
Did you see the very first reply? I had my action bedded and placed in an HS precision stock and it did nothing for the accuracy. The barrel was garbage.
People telling me the stock was the problem caused me to keep pouring money into something that should have been thrown in the garbage.
I'm very bitter that I have a factory Remington action right now instead of a Surgeon
On YOUR particular rifle perhaps... but the suggestion was not directed at you but to Max713. He has a group card from Remington that shows a perhaps one inch group at a unknown distance. My suggestion is to shim the stock shoot it at 100 yards with decent ammo and see where it takes him, then decide if it has the POTENTIAL to be worthy of pouring money into it.
Did you see the very first reply? I had my action bedded and placed in an HS precision stock and it did nothing for the accuracy. The barrel was garbage.
People telling me the stock was the problem caused me to keep pouring money into something that should have been thrown in the garbage.
I'm very bitter that I have a factory Remington action right now instead of a Surgeon
How much did it cost again, from no bolt action to what you have now, not including scope, rings and bipod.
Got to do a little testing today.
The first group, although about half the size of before the "servicing", did not look promising.
This was with freedommunitions, 150gr. All shot at 100 yards.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/IMG_6856_zpsayrobbjf.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/IMG_6856_zpsayrobbjf.jpg.html)
Moved on to some handloads, this was the second best group.
168gr Nosler BTHP
H335 40.0gr
0.94" at 100 yards
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/f4c9436d-0c5f-48e7-a3a5-fb749339c6de_zpss4bk3agm.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/f4c9436d-0c5f-48e7-a3a5-fb749339c6de_zpss4bk3agm.jpg.html)
The rifles favorite load was a little hotter.
168 BTHP
H335 42.0gr
0.83" at 100 yards
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/IMG_6858_zpsxqqc8tfl.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/IMG_6858_zpsxqqc8tfl.jpg.html)
So, end result is I'm happy. Whatever they did to the rifle, combined with my hand loads has turned it into an accurate rifle. Looking forward to what I can do with a replacement stock and further hand load development.
An unrelated success from the day, but an awesome one none-the-less...
This was shot with my BCM AR, at 50 yards with a 1.5-4 power scope.
This is 0.250" at 50 yards, with my hand load. Excited about this one!
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/IMG_6859_zpsrxsfzvru.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/IMG_6859_zpsrxsfzvru.jpg.html)
Eurodriver
02-06-16, 18:38
Awesome man! Is it the same S/N? Wonder what they did to it.
How much did it cost again, from no bolt action to what you have now, not including scope, rings and bipod.
I am guesstimating here but I believe the gun was $700, the stock, bedding, and trigger were $700, the barrel, blueprint, action, muzzle device install (it is shaved to be timed perfectly with the barrel using no shims) was $1400 or so.
I could be waayyyyyyy off and can check if it is important but those are figures as I remember them. I do know for certain it is over $2,500 for just the stick, and that the only thing I have left of that $700 I paid for the stick is the action and bolt.
Boxerglocker
02-06-16, 20:32
Got to do a little testing today.
The first group, although about half the size of before the "servicing", did not look promising.
This was with freedommunitions, 150gr. All shot at 100 yards.
Moved on to some handloads, this was the second best group.
168gr Nosler BTHP
H335 40.0gr
0.94" at 100 yards
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/f4c9436d-0c5f-48e7-a3a5-fb749339c6de_zpss4bk3agm.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/f4c9436d-0c5f-48e7-a3a5-fb749339c6de_zpss4bk3agm.jpg.html)
The rifles favorite load was a little hotter.
168 BTHP
H335 42.0gr
0.83" at 100 yards
So, end result is I'm happy. Whatever they did to the rifle, combined with my hand loads has turned it into an accurate rifle. Looking forward to what I can do with a replacement stock and further hand load development.
I'm not at all surprised. I was pretty sure it was in the end going to be the ammo. 150-155 bullets don't do very well in short fast twist barrels in my experience either.
I tried to load several different types for my AAC-SD and they were never consistent at mid to upper range and when I went low the velocity was pitiful.
Give shimming the OEM stock at try, until you have decided which stock to get. I bet doing so will tighten those 168 and 175 loads up.
Awesome man! Is it the same S/N? Wonder what they did to it.
It has to be the same S/N, or they would have to send it to an FFL and "re-sell" me the firearm.
It doesn't "look" like they did anything... I'm going to call tomorrow and see what they did.
But yes, I'm happy! Sub-MOA on a totally factory rifle works for me. Hoping to get down near the 0.5 MOA mark with a new stock, possibly trigger, and some practice.
It has to be the same S/N, or they would have to send it to an FFL and "re-sell" me the firearm.
It doesn't "look" like they did anything... I'm going to call tomorrow and see what they did.
But yes, I'm happy! Sub-MOA on a totally factory rifle works for me. Hoping to get down near the 0.5 MOA mark with a new stock, possibly trigger, and some practice.
Wonder if they shimmed the stock with beer cans :p
Please, let us know what they say. I'm interested in what their solution was.
Eurodriver
02-12-16, 07:58
It has to be the same S/N, or they would have to send it to an FFL and "re-sell" me the firearm.
That is simply not true.
If a defective firearm is sent back to the manufacturer for warranty (or non-warranty) repair and the manufacturer chooses to replace that firearm with one of the same kind and type, 27 CFR 478.147 allows the transfer of that firearm to the individual who originally brought the defective firearm in for repair without a Form 4473 or background check.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.147
That is simply not true.
If a defective firearm is sent back to the manufacturer for warranty (or non-warranty) repair and the manufacturer chooses to replace that firearm with one of the same kind and type, 27 CFR 478.147 allows the transfer of that firearm to the individual who originally brought the defective firearm in for repair without a Form 4473 or background check.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.147
My understanding is they would still have to ship it to an FFL though? I thought that is a firearm does not "transfer ownership" that it can be shipped without going through an FFL. If the firearm were to get a new serial number, this would make it a new firearm, and require transfer as it would now be transferring ownership from the manufacturer to the customer?
Eurodriver
02-12-16, 15:19
My understanding is they would still have to ship it to an FFL though? I thought that is a firearm does not "transfer ownership" that it can be shipped without going through an FFL. If the firearm were to get a new serial number, this would make it a new firearm, and require transfer as it would now be transferring ownership from the manufacturer to the customer?
Nope. As long as you ship a firearm to the manufacturer and they ship the same model back to you it does not need to go through an FFL whatsoever. This used to be the case with suppressors too until AAC kind of ruined it :sad:
There is also the Mossberg MVP Patrol.
Uhhh...yeah...good luck with that. Mine wouldn't shoot better than 3 MOA with FGMM ammo, and I ended up dropping about $2200 into it to get it to shoot well. (All I had left at that point was the receiver, and even that had been blueprinted and customized)
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?164921-Update-2-8-Help-Torque-Specs-for-Precision-bolt-gun-build-ammo-questions-etc
The pics are no longer up, but the majority of groups were around 4" at 100 yards. I wrote a nicely worded letter to Remington and the guys who actually build the things gave me a call and said that unless a rifle shoots worse than FIVE MOA at 100 yards they will not consider it a defect. I love Remington 700s, but I'll never buy one again. Especially a "boutique" model like a 16.5" barrel.
what was the hangup? what made it shoot so poorly?
i see you mention later it was the barrel, so what was your final set up that "shot well"
Knew about the stock, changed that with a take off from another time. I guess I got a good one, well it is good with tuned handloads. I like a 175 at 2550 ft/secs from the 16.5" tube... that reaches the 100 yard berm no problem :-)
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/ZombiesandTNT005_zpsa82e890a.jpg
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x160/308sako/Vargetand168NoslerCC001_zps64f1347b.jpg
Tried to remove the tumb nail, that load was shot in a different rifle!
danieljmaunder
04-28-16, 22:48
I picked up one of these in a trade and got extremely lucky. I put it in a magpul stock, threw a scope, nightforce base and seekins rings and its consistantly a .5moa or better rifle. However as many have sed you are rolling the dice if you pick one up. Ive seen more bad than good posts about these.
I just bought one, waiting on my magpul stock to get here before I do any type of shooting. Then next weekend I will be doing groups with FGMM 168, 175 & BH 175 ammo, and a ladder test for my handloads. Also hoping to stretch the legs out and see if I got a lemon or a diamond in the rough. I will update next weekend with my results.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160605/09c95984fc46ba1cfeeb01a262691156.jpg
Took mine to the range over the weekend after getting a timney 510, Magpul 700, and a muzzle brake. Cold bore groups are around .75"-1.15" using 168 GR A-max, but after 5 shots the barrel is so damn hot the groups open up (also doesn't help that it's 100+ degrees where I'm at). My first group with 178 GR ELD-X Hornady precision hunter was at an inch, after that group I shot another one and it jumped to a 3" group.
I'm going to run that theory again tonight but so far I'm not to impressed with the rifle. I really hope it gets better or this rifle is going to be on the chopping block.
Canonshooter
06-23-16, 11:19
Try without the brake. Do you know how many foot-pounds was used to tighten it?
Also, did you get to try any Federal GMM 168?
Try without the brake. Do you know how many foot-pounds was used to tighten it?
Also, did you get to try any Federal GMM 168?
My smith said he snugged it against the barrel, but I will try it without the brake on. He said the brake is easily taken off so I can clean it and everything so I can't imagine it's on there incredibly tight.
I didn't have any 168 GR FGMM, only the 175. I did have some 168 GR Hornady HPBT that grouped just at 1.17" if I remember right. But those reloads were just stuff I threw together.
I tried not alot of different ammo, but some variety. I had FGMM 175, Black Hills match 175, Hornady 168 Amax, and the Hornady Precision hunter 178 ELD-X. The black Hills was promising until I had 2 fliers, the first 3 rounds were clover shaped, the Amax was about 1.5" group, the FGMM was 2" and the precision hunter after it cooled down shrunk to a 1.15" group. All the group measurements are off the top of my head, I will have to double check my targets when I get home.
Well, I had a fun run with the rifle but it's going to the chopping block.
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