View Full Version : USMC Capt Sounds off on "Gender Neutral" plans
The man holds nothing back. If they combine them both in boot camp, and do not in anyway water it down for women, then fine. We all know if they did that, the fail rates will skyrocket, and they will have only one of two choices: water it down to improve passing rates or admit the idea was a failure.
Hence, we all know which those will happen which is very bad mojo for the USMC as to what will pass as a Marine. Those few women who can pass the same boot camp as their male counterparts, would likely earn a great deal of respect, but that will be far below what's acceptable. Like the Capt indicates, we are not all equal and when rates of WIA/KIA go way up, and we see vids of female Marines getting their heads cut off, or worse, will someone possibly release that was a very bad idea. :nono:
USMC Captain Goes Beastmode Following Major Gender Neutrality Announcement in the Marines
The Navy Secretary served for 24 months (1971-1972) in a non combat role within the United States Navy prior to attending Harvard Law School.
He issued his memo request on 1 JAN and expects a detailed plan to be delivered no later than 15 JAN, erasing 241 years in 14 days, the United States Marine Corps, compliant to lawful order, obedient and faithful, always, is scrambling to dismantle title, as if it were an gangrenous arbitrary item and they have 5 further business days in which to do it.”
I served with Males and Females and Homosexuals and I’m cool with Transgendered because nothing would make me happier then hearing the frantic stuttering hand held radio transmissions of ISIS fighters announcing the assault of fabulous Marines who also enjoy alternative lifestyles raining steel upon their intolerant bullshit.
That said, I believe, firmly, in gender segregation, in basic training….why WOULD YOU NOT SEGREGATE GENDERS? Of what benefit to either gender is mixing the two in initial training? If you got something I do not know about, regarding how it will IMPROVE the Marine Corps, sound the **** off, I beg you.
I also believe it’s folly to argue over the inevitable, fine, okay, they are making Female Grunts now? Ok, I politely suggested ALL FEMALE / FEMALE ONLY INFANTRY BATTALIONS, yet I said that somewhere else and was pretty much called a Satan Shit Lord Misogynist, unreal.”
Cont:
http://www.ijreview.com/2016/01/510756-former-usmc-captain-goes-beastmode-following-major-gender-neutrality-announcement-in-the-marines/
I don't have a problem with females in some combat roles (nor in law enforcement or firefighting), but I sure do have a problem with dumbing down the training and qualifications in order to make it happen.. This whole edict is the reductio ad absurdum of political correctness.
Eurodriver
01-09-16, 10:17
It is absolutely astonishing how in less than a decade the Marine Corps has gone from requiring me to sign an affidavit that I am not a homosexual, and combat arms never serving with females (Seriously, I went months at a time without seeing a single human with a vagina) to turning the entire Land that God Forgot into a fabulous 4th Battalion.
It is absolutely astonishing how in less than a decade the Marine Corps has gone from requiring me to sign an affidavit that I am not a homosexual, and combat arms never serving with females (Seriously, I went months at a time without seeing a single human with a vagina) to turning the entire Land that God Forgot into a fabulous 4th Battalion.
Hence why I never joined the mil. I kid, I kid. :lol:
It is absolutely astonishing how in less than a decade the Marine Corps has gone from requiring me to sign an affidavit that I am not a homosexual, and combat arms never serving with females (Seriously, I went months at a time without seeing a single human with a vagina) to turning the entire Land that God Forgot into a fabulous 4th Battalion.
No joke. There was a time I wish I had made a career of it. Then Obama was elected and I thanked God for leading me down a different path. Now that it's a "Peacetime Corps", I am again thanking God as I'd be a NJP generating fool given all of the stupidity which is now running rampant.
SeriousStudent
01-09-16, 10:59
This is a really bad idea.
Dist. Expert 26
01-09-16, 11:14
I'm glad I'm out, but it pains me to watch the Corps destroy itself from within. As has been noted, this ill-conceived social experiment will only have one result; the lowering of standards and a less effective fighting force.
To list all the reasons would take a small book, but the core of the issue is something that is almost never discussed- brotherhood. The infantry works because each man is willing to die for the guy next to him. That bond is forged though long nights suffering together in the field, getting drunk in the barracks and generally acting like 18-22 year olds do. It's a crude, politically incorrect atmosphere that continues the warrior tradition of generations past.
Boot camp works for the same reasons. In my time at Parris Island I saw women maybe a handful of times. Towards the end they ALL looked good, which presents the core problem. Boot camp is effective because you are totally isolated from the world, surrounded only by your brothers. If women had been around every day they would have become the focus of our attention, not our training.
Averageman
01-09-16, 11:15
I think the Progressives have decided the only way to bring us to humility is to lose a war with some significant casualties.
Only then will we accept the agenda and join in.
If that's not the case, I'm not sure how you explain what's happening to the Military.
This is a really bad idea.
Anyone who thinks that is a "...Satan Shit Lord Misogynist"!
GI Jane was a fun movie. Demi Moore was hot in a Butch way and stabbed up some terries while Aragorn shot em with an HK91.
Aliens was cool Ripley taped two guns together and Vasquez had a space M60.
Buuut....I don't think the harshness of reality will allow for such thrilling heroics. I've seen female police literally drop and run. Yeah...tell it to the family of the people you could have saved.
Yeah...I'm sure they'll be thrilled with your excuses.
.I've seen female police literally drop and run. Yeah...tell it to the family of the people you could have saved.
Yeah...I'm sure they'll be thrilled with your excuses.
To be fair, yeah, I've seen guys poop yellow also, but......
On April 4, a detective with the Jackson Police Department was shot and killed while interviewing a homicide suspect around 5:45 p.m. at police headquarters. A camera inside the interrogation room captured the incident on video. During his interview with two detectives, a homicide suspect became belligerent and engaged one of the detectives in a struggle. The 40-year-old detective was a veteran of law enforcement with nearly 18 years’ experience. As the two fell to the floor, the suspect managed to get the detective’s service weapon, a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun. The other detective in the room fired a shot that missed the suspect. Then her service weapon malfunctioned, so she ran from the room to summon help. As the struggle continued, the suspect shot the detective once, rose to his feet, and fired three more rounds at the detective. The rounds hit the victim detective in his arms/hands and mortally wounded him in the front upper torso/chest. The 23-year-old assailant, who had a prior criminal record that included violent crime, then committed suicide by shooting himself twice in the head. (LEOKA 2013)
I wanted to fly helicopters - my eyes suck - I guess I should have bitched, I just sucked it up and went on because that was the hand I was dealt, back them rules were rules.
Moose-Knuckle
01-09-16, 13:22
When you hear the phrase The Suicide of a Superpower this is what they are talking about . . .
Chesty is spinning in his grave!
SeriousStudent
01-09-16, 14:01
Anyone who thinks that is a "...Satan Shit Lord Misogynist"!
And herein lies the dilemma. The exact kind of guy that makes a good infantry Marine is a self-starter, internally motivated, pushes past pain and obstacles, and invents new approaches to solve problems.
In short, he will do everything within his power to create a relationship with a female recruit, "short-term" or otherwise.
A SgtMaj I worked for once said "We don't expect you to be alterboys. Hell, we wouldn't want you if you were." He knew a bit about combat, being a three-tour Vietnam vet.
This move by the SecNav and SecDef is very short-sighted, in my opinion. The Corps also did a great deal of actual no-shit testing with male and female Marines doing CAX's out at Stumps. The female Marines experienced a drastically higher injury rate, and those injuries made them combat ineffective. And that is what the Corp is all about - it has not been doing a shitty job of making noise and breaking things for the past 240 years.
I would not make this change at this time.
And herein lies the dilemma. The exact kind of guy that makes a good infantry Marine is a self-starter, internally motivated, pushes past pain and obstacles, and invents new approaches to solve problems.
In short, he will do everything within his power to create a relationship with a female recruit, "short-term" or otherwise.
A SgtMaj I worked for once said "We don't expect you to be alterboys. Hell, we wouldn't want you if you were." He knew a bit about combat, being a three-tour Vietnam vet.
This move by the SecNav and SecDef is very short-sighted, in my opinion. The Corps also did a great deal of actual no-shit testing with male and female Marines doing CAX's out at Stumps. The female Marines experienced a drastically higher injury rate, and those injuries made them combat ineffective. And that is what the Corp is all about - it has not been doing a shitty job of making noise and breaking things for the past 240 years.
I would not make this change at this time.
Adapt and overcome so to speak.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-09-16, 16:36
All I can say about this is: My Marine Corps already tested this. It failed.
I'm glad I'm out, but it pains me to watch the Corps destroy itself from within. As has been noted, this ill-conceived social experiment will only have one result; the lowering of standards and a less effective fighting force.
To list all the reasons would take a small book, but the core of the issue is something that is almost never discussed- brotherhood. The infantry works because each man is willing to die for the guy next to him. That bond is forged though long nights suffering together in the field, getting drunk in the barracks and generally acting like 18-22 year olds do. It's a crude, politically incorrect atmosphere that continues the warrior tradition of generations past.
Boot camp works for the same reasons. In my time at Parris Island I saw women maybe a handful of times. Towards the end they ALL looked good, which presents the core problem. Boot camp is effective because you are totally isolated from the world, surrounded only by your brothers. If women had been around every day they would have become the focus of our attention, not our training.
Imagine how different PT Showers would have been!
This seems like a bad joke. How did the female infantry officer do? What about the female Ranger School Candidates?
Dist. Expert 26
01-09-16, 18:31
Imagine how different PT Showers would have been!
Standing nut to butt would've been a lot more fun at least.
I reckon a lot of cold hard showers will be happening
Adapt and overcome so to speak.
Come over something anyways
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Standing nut to butt would've been a lot more fun at least.
I reckon a lot of cold hard showers will be happening
The woman I'm dating is a Marine Veteran who was in 2001-2006. When I asked the other night she didn't know what PT showers were. :cool:She's also thinks women in combat is a bad idea. She knows from first hand experience.
Hmm, I am not sure what to make of this one.
I am totally against gender-normed standards. They get people killed. Period. And it's inherently unfair.
I am totally against quotas for women in units. That gets people killed. Period. And it's inherently unfair.
I am totally against women in top-tier front line combat units like Rangers, SEALs, etc.
As for basic training, I am not 100% decidedly against it. I see the downsides. However, I went through basic in the Canadian Forces (CF), which runs courses as co-ed. Now, I know guys and girls bang each other, and tensions can brew between guys in the presence of girls.
The shacks are segregated, as are the showers, bathrooms, etc.
As an FYI, the CF does gender-norm some standards, as well as age-norm some standards. (e.g. pushups, grip strength, beep test). However, some standards are not gender-normed on paper (e.g. ruck marches) but in practice they are, because recruitment numbers are so low that the results are fudged so as not to sideline much-needed bodies. It's a cluster****.
But basic is different than advanced training, combat and whatnot.
I'm not really sure what I'm getting at here.
Gender segregation makes sense mostly. For basic? Maybe.
I think the Progressives have decided the only way to bring us to humility is to lose a war with some significant casualties.
Only then will we accept the agenda and join in.
If that's not the case, I'm not sure how you explain what's happening to the Military.
Across the board, this Administration is putting our country more, and more at risk daily. Whether it be unsecured borders, importing Syrian "refugees" and others, plus dumbing down all military branches. It is a travesty, and an act of Sedition or worse.
It's not broken so leave it alone!
Moose-Knuckle
01-11-16, 01:56
Across the board, this Administration is putting our country more, and more at risk daily. Whether it be unsecured borders, importing Syrian "refugees" and others, plus dumbing down all military branches. It is a travesty, and an act of Sedition or worse.
Boom, there it is.
Eurodriver
01-11-16, 07:25
Hmm, I am not sure what to make of this one.
I am totally against gender-normed standards. They get people killed. Period. And it's inherently unfair.
I am totally against quotas for women in units. That gets people killed. Period. And it's inherently unfair.
I am totally against women in top-tier front line combat units like Rangers, SEALs, etc.
As for basic training, I am not 100% decidedly against it. I see the downsides. However, I went through basic in the Canadian Forces (CF), which runs courses as co-ed. Now, I know guys and girls bang each other, and tensions can brew between guys in the presence of girls.
The shacks are segregated, as are the showers, bathrooms, etc.
As an FYI, the CF does gender-norm some standards, as well as age-norm some standards. (e.g. pushups, grip strength, beep test). However, some standards are not gender-normed on paper (e.g. ruck marches) but in practice they are, because recruitment numbers are so low that the results are fudged so as not to sideline much-needed bodies. It's a cluster****.
But basic is different than advanced training, combat and whatnot.
I'm not really sure what I'm getting at here.
Gender segregation makes sense mostly. For basic? Maybe.
Dude,
The Marine Corps is not the Canadian Military.
The Marine Corps is a beast. It's a wild animal. Marines throw puppies off of cliffs for fun. 100% of free time is spent buying liquor and laying pipe. The Marine Corps does an excellent job of turning wussified 18 year old teenagers into Marines that literally go around talking about eating babies in only 13 weeks. It has done this for over 230 years, and it has done an excellent job at it.
All of this starts at Parris Island. MCRD, too, plus sunglasses and baseball game visits.
Women will totally **** it up.
Dude,
The Marine Corps is not the Canadian Military.
The Marine Corps is a beast. It's a wild animal. Marines throw puppies off of cliffs for fun. 100% of free time is spent buying liquor and laying pipe. The Marine Corps does an excellent job of turning wussified 18 year old teenagers into Marines that literally go around talking about eating babies in only 13 weeks. It has done this for over 230 years, and it has done an excellent job at it.
All of this starts at Parris Island. MCRD, too, plus sunglasses and baseball game visits.
Women will totally **** it up.
Yes, that is a good point. I'm not denying that the Canadian Forces, like most things that the Canadian government has managed to destroy/bastardize is very unlike the US Marine Corps.
Male Marines still serve alongside female Marines, though. I was just saying that Basic is something all recruits go through, whether they are cooks, pilots or front line infantry. I'd never support mixing male and female Marines when it comes to infantry-specific training, though.
Just a thought.
The thing that dries me nuts is this thinking that all standards must be "justified" if x% of women aren't making the cut. Can't make the cut? Adios. No special snowflakes, regardless of penis or vagina.
A WW2 veteran(uncle)saw many female Russian troops in 1945 as the war wound down. He swore that they peed standing up. I never knew whether or not he was joking.
I was just saying that Basic is something all recruits go through, whether they are cooks, pilots or front line infantry. I'd never support mixing male and female Marines when it comes to infantry-specific training, though.
The thing is, you have no clue as to what Boot Camp is like for male Marines. Your frame of reference is not valid.
Dist. Expert 26
01-12-16, 22:44
The thing is, you have no clue as to what Boot Camp is like for male Marines. Your frame of reference is not valid.
This.
The documentaries about boot camp don't even show 20% of what goes on. Picture this- its 2 am, and you're a fresh recruit unlucky enough to get firewatch on the kill hats duty night. He can't sleep and he's bored, so you get to spend an hour running the length of the squad bay pushing a towel with your hands. In the beginning its easy enough, the wet towel slides smoothly across the concrete floor. By the end though it feels like you're dragging 300lbs behind you, your arms are about to give out and it feels like you got hit in the back with a shovel. By some small miracle the hour finally goes by and you get to lay in your rack listening to the next poor soul undergo the same treatment.
That's just one example out of hundreds I can think of. I've never once heard a female Marine tell a similar story. Their boot camp is an entirely different experience.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-12-16, 23:21
The Marine Corps is the embodiment of everything liberals and progressives hate. Its intolerant, racist, sexist, alcoholic, sex addicted, rife with hazing, celebrates weapons, glorifies death, and worst of all, makes people cry. It's a system that works and works well. It works for people of all color, race, ethnicity, and sex. But it only works if the Corps get's to be the Corps. Without the formula of hate, discontent, and extreme sacrifice, it becomes something else entirely, and stays the Corps by name only.
If Chesty Puller, Brad Kassal, Dan Daly, John Basilone, and Archibald Henderson hold a conference to change the formula, then by all means, change away. Until that happens, leave it alone. A 2 year sailor (Mabus), and bunch of whiney civilians know nothing when it comes to this, and are actively working to weaken and neuter a ferocious fighting force.
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