View Full Version : ELCAN to Replace an Eotech that replaced a ACOG
I started with an ACOG but didn't like it for close work so I replaced it with a EOTECH. The Eotch was OK but I was always messing with the zero. Nothing big, just enough to drive you crazy. When the return authorization cane in, back it went. Now I am looking at the ELCAN 1-4x.
Any opinions good or bad? I realize they are expensive.
THANKS!!
I've got 3 and love'em, plan on getting a 4th.
That is consistent with everything I have heard.
They are awful. They are chunky, heavy, have bad eye relief and are an odd height.
There is a known issue with sights having POA/POI shifts when changing from 1x to 4x and vise versa.
It should be a clue when people started mounting MRDS on top of a 1x red dot sight that there is a problem. Do you see people mounting MRDS on top of Aimpoints? No because that would be redundant and stupid. The reason people mount a MRDS on top of the Elcan is because the scope doesn't work/perform as envisioned.
On top of that, under hard use the crappy MIM ARMS throw levers can break and the recoil lug can come out. That is funny to watch as the scope slides forward with each shot.
The decision to axe the Elcan from SOPMOD block II came before the EOTECH drama.
Prior to Block II dudes were using ACOGs with MRDS on top. When Elcan came on the scene dudes were still using a 4x BDC equipped scope with MRDS on top, only the package was heavier, had a worse reticle, and a worse mount.
On the plus side, the DOT is actually daylight bright. Really bright. But if you have a POI shift, who cares because you may just keep it on 4x all the time and rock a secondary red dot sight.
That version of the Elcan never was relevant, but it is extra useless with the myriad options to be had of low power variables with daylight bright or big bold reticles that have provisions for holds.
Do yourself a favor and save your money. There are much better options out there for the same or less coin. Leupold, Vortex, Trijicon, Bushnell and others all make variable power scopes with excellent CQB capable reticles that also allow you to stretch your carbines legs a little. All those companies make great scopes that are well below the price of the Elcan with the exception of Leupold which is right in line +\- .
I've heard from one or two SOF dudes about the zero shift between 1 and 4 power but that was several years ago. I just assumed they fixed it. I didn't know they were dropped from SOPMOD.
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vicious_cb
01-10-16, 02:22
Is there any truth to the vortex razor hd 1-6x in use with SOCOM?
No zero shifts on the 3 I have. The weight feels better to me than my 3 NF 1-4's, or 2 Steiner 1-4's.
With the Elcan it's shorter so the weight is more centered on my rifles .
Like any optic some like it some don't.
I'm in the like it a lot camp.
Ymmv.
I started with an ACOG but didn't like it for close work so I replaced it with a EOTECH. The Eotch was OK but I was always messing with the zero. Nothing big, just enough to drive you crazy. When the return authorization cane in, back it went. Now I am looking at the ELCAN 1-4x.
Any opinions good or bad? I realize they are expensive.
THANKS!!
Insanely expensive.
Stupid heavy.
No big deal unless you simply have to feel like an Operator Operating Operationally.
I am now considering the scope options. I have a Burris MTAC I really like. I could replicate this or step up to the Swaro for the same money as the ELCAN.
TheChunkNorris
01-10-16, 08:34
I had a Elcan Specter DR 1.5-6 and it was a great optic. Wish I never would've sold it.
pointblank4445
01-10-16, 08:39
Nongshim hit the nail on the head. Heavy, crappy eye relief, and you depend on ARMs proprietary tech for mounting. The one thing I could say for the Elcans is that I liked the reticle better than its ACOG counterpart, and the glass/image was notably clear and crisp. In the end, not worth it.
Frankly, If you want the best of both worlds, this is a SMOKIN' deal on S&B at the moment:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/879156/schmidt-and-bender-zenith-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-11-4x-24mm-15-mil-flashdot-illuminated-fd7-reticle-matte
I'm sure I'm in the minority that I would rather go with a lower magnification and higher quality optic than dick around with some mediocre 6x or 8x.
Nongshim hit the nail on the head. Heavy, crappy eye relief, and you depend on ARMs proprietary tech for mounting. The one thing I could say for the Elcans is that I liked the reticle better than its ACOG counterpart, and the glass/image was notably clear and crisp. In the end, not worth it.
Frankly, If you want the best of both worlds, this is a SMOKIN' deal on S&B at the moment:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/879156/schmidt-and-bender-zenith-rifle-scope-30mm-tube-11-4x-24mm-15-mil-flashdot-illuminated-fd7-reticle-matte
I'm sure I'm in the minority that I would rather go with a lower magnification and higher quality optic than dick around with some mediocre 6x or 8x.
Holy crap.....damn skippy that's a fantastic deal! I'm holding YOU personally responsible for costing me $1000.
pointblank4445
01-10-16, 09:45
Holy crap.....damn skippy that's a fantastic deal! I'm holding YOU personally responsible for costing me $1000.
HA, it went from 15 down to 10 since I posted. Oh, and you're welcome. IMHO, the Short Dot LE #7 is the ideal optic for general 5.56 carbine use; this optic is 95% at 1/3rd the price. Money well spent.
I am now considering the scope options. I have a Burris MTAC I really like. I could replicate this or step up to the Swaro for the same money as the ELCAN.
I'm in the same boat. Like my MTAC but wonder if I should go with something else since it isn't one of the popular scopes now.
To me, the biggest advantage of the Elcan is the FOV followed by the lever. The Kahles and Swaroiski come the closest on FOV. Weight with rings will be less than the Elcan. I almost pulled the trigger on the S&B mentioned above, and may yet, but I am willing to step up to the higher dollar offerings.
BrigandTwoFour
01-10-16, 11:56
In the 1-4 market, you can do better than the SpecterDR for less money. I do have the fixed 4x version (SpecterOS), and am happy with it for the most part. It's lighter, about 1K less money, and the glass is amazing. The only real issue I have is not trusting the ARMS mount, even though it has given me no trouble.
For the kind of money you are looking at, you might as well look at the VCOG, S&B, Nightforce, or one of the other quality variables.
I recommend you consider the Steiner military 1-4x24 from Euro Optic. They are on clearance for $699, which is a steal as they previously retailed for $1800-$2k. I bought one about a month ago and it is a fantastic optic. True 1x, simple BDC reticle, aimpoint bright illumination, off settings between all illumination settings, 1.3moa dot. And bullet proof. Steiner beats the crap out of their optics before they can pass QC/QA. It is a truly world class optic at an unbelievable price.
It is as close to true 1x as I can appreciate once the diopter is properly set. The dot is sharp and bright. It is almost as fast for me as an aimpoint.
You could also consider going with a 1-6. I had the chance to look through (but not shoot) a friend's Kahles k16i with sm-1 reticle. It's silly light weight (19 oz), with a very very fast reticle and fantastic illumination. I also had the chance to spend some time behind a leupy mk6 1-6 with cmr-w reticle and really liked it. I didn't find the illumination to be an issue and quite like the reticle.
Is there any truth to the vortex razor hd 1-6x in use with SOCOM?
I saw once on TOS where Vortex Optics posted that this scope (or something from the Razor HD gen II line) was in military use but I don't recall them being any more specific than that.
I saw once on TOS where Vortex Optics posted that this scope (or something from the Razor HD gen II line) was in military use but I don't recall them being any more specific than that.
I saw this picture somewhere on M4C. Not sure where, I'm not even sure what unit this is. I see Luminox watches and SBR HK416's, I'm guessing NSW guys. Soldier on the far left.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160111/24f91ed6e33387a6d24a40c45a4b79e8.jpg
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I'll show my ignorance of things secret squirrel... What's with the blue on the AR mags?
I'll show my ignorance of things secret squirrel... What's with the blue on the AR mags?
I was wondering the same thing.
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Usually to mark non-lethal, like sim rounds.
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Primus Pilum
02-03-16, 16:11
I second the SME's evaluation of the Elcan sights. IMO they are the biggest pieces of junk cloaked as a quality product. Had certain entities never slapped them on every Mk16/M17, no one in the civy world would buy them. They have way too many weaknesses and design flaws to command even 1/3 of their selling price.
The TA33 and TA11 are still viable optics with the right reticle (Horseshoe) and there are a ton of great 1-6/8 products out there I would all use before I even consider a DR.
Vortex, Bushnell, Kahles, S&B, Steiner, Leupold, Meopta & SWFA make products across a broad price range that would be good choices.
KingsideRook
02-03-16, 17:29
I recommend you consider the Steiner military 1-4x24 from Euro Optic. They are on clearance for $699, which is a steal as they previously retailed for $1800-$2k. I bought one about a month ago and it is a fantastic optic. True 1x, simple BDC reticle, aimpoint bright illumination, off settings between all illumination settings, 1.3moa dot. And bullet proof. Steiner beats the crap out of their optics before they can pass QC/QA. It is a truly world class optic at an unbelievable price.
It is as close to true 1x as I can appreciate once the diopter is properly set. The dot is sharp and bright. It is almost as fast for me as an aimpoint.
Just took your advice on this optic and ordered. An amazing price, I had drooled over these from afar but never considered it at $18xx. Thanks for the heads up on the $699 price.
Take a look at Jeff's articles posted in the general AR discussion thread, on current AMY SOF optics.
LinK:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?179514-Jeff-Gurwitch-and-The-Competition-to-Combat-Crossover-Part-3
You will occasionally see non standard optics pop up for T&E or some COCs will allow their guys to mount personal optics. For example my Unit T&Eed a pair of spectres in 2007. They seemed like decent optics. They were a bit heavy. The PSD guys who had them liked them, but they were mostly truck mounted and did daytime missions. I can't comment on zero issues. I've got personal experince with their MGOs, fixed power worked fine, a bit bulky, nice glass, strange reticle.
patriot_man
02-04-16, 02:31
Is there any truth to the vortex razor hd 1-6x in use with SOCOM?
yes, Army SMU
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