View Full Version : Backpacking stove - Wood VS Gas Systems?
What are the pros and cons of using a wood burning collapsible, such as the Emberlit or Bushbox, versus a gas system like an MSR, canister or liquid fuel?
Primary use would be backpacking and camping for a few days. I like the idea of the wood system due to utilizing free, abundant fuel sources. But, is it more convenient and easier to rock an MSR, or the equivalent?
I'm relatively new to this, haven't been camping in 20 years, but I'd like to get out with my boys and do some exploring, camping, etc.
ETA - Or if you going to use a wood burning stove would you just be better off building a fire to save weight?
This episode of geartasting from ITS Tactical might help you out, skip forward to 12:50 to get to the backpack stove section.
https://youtu.be/E_eczSi_Oug
This episode of geartasting from ITS Tactical might help you out, skip forward to 12:50 to get to the backpack stove section.
https://youtu.be/E_eczSi_Oug
A good overview. Thanks!
Check out the Kelley Kettle. You can heat water and cook on top of it. Its quick and just needs sticks and twigs. A little pricey but its worth it!!
Irish,
Why not have both? I'm going on 3 years with the Trail Designs Ti-Tri Sidewinder Stove and love it for its versatility. You can burn liquid fuel, esbit tabs, wood, and even run a remote gas canister if you wanted. It's super lightweight and I haven't had any durability issues with it taking out for week+ long backcountry elk hunts in Idaho and Colorado. Just pick the pot of your choice and he likely makes a corresponding stove system for it (I would recommend a wide 1+ liter pot for your uses - I run the 1.3L Evernew Ti pot for just myself to be able to cook meals in it or just boil water.)
https://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-sidewinder
What's the primary use case? Are you cooking dehydrated food or actually cooking in the field?
Are you trying to be fast and light or are ready for anything?
Irish,
Why not have both? I'm going on 3 years with the Trail Designs Ti-Tri Sidewinder Stove and love it for its versatility. You can burn liquid fuel, esbit tabs, wood, and even run a remote gas canister if you wanted. It's super lightweight and I haven't had any durability issues with it taking out for week+ long backcountry elk hunts in Idaho and Colorado. Just pick the pot of your choice and he likely makes a corresponding stove system for it (I would recommend a wide 1+ liter pot for your uses - I run the 1.3L Evernew Ti pot for just myself to be able to cook meals in it or just boil water.)
https://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-sidewinder
Interesting design. I'm reading about it now.
What's the primary use case? Are you cooking dehydrated food or actually cooking in the field?
Are you trying to be fast and light or are ready for anything?
Honestly, I'm not really sure yet. Probably a bit of both. Lighter is definitely better, since I'll be hauling the vast majority of equipment, the boys are 5 and 3.
My 2 cents; I have been doing this for a long time and used to be an outfitter. If you are going to buy a gas stove, I would stick with MSR, they are simply the best. If you are cooking for yourself and a group, I would 100% go with a stove of liquid gas. If you get in an oh sh*t situation, liquid gas affords you the ability to open up the canister and start a fire with white gas. This option has saved my life on a one occasion.
Liquid gas stoves also give you the option to make some really great food on the trail and not just boil water. Canister stoves are even better at this but do not afford you the Sh*t hit the fan scenario and can be expensive over the life of the stove. You also have to pack out your canisters. They can be lighter and a better option for simmering vs liquid gas as the system is already pressurised vs the art of properly pressuring liquid gas for a simmer. The MSR WhisperLite is the gold standard for reliability and ability to use a multitude of gas sources. They now have one that will also take canisters as well as liquid fuels - http://amzn.to/1OkaG3c
If I am just out with another person for a short trip (2-4 days) or by myself, I generally take an Esbit Ultralight stove. Esbit stoves are a very simple small aluminum box that open to make a stove and burns Esbit tablets. The tablets weigh nothing and burn for 12 minutes which is plenty of time to boil water. You can also use them as a fire starter if needed. I own about 5 stoves but this is my preferred setup although not really conducive to cooking for a group. Here is a link to the Esbit - http://amzn.to/1RDcEjs
If you are going to do wood, I would recommend the Emberlit Stove. They come in stainless and titanium. I would go with the titanium as you lose 10 oz in the deal but the stainless is cheaper - http://amzn.to/1RDd7ST.
Wood is a great resource as its free and easy to cook with. Drawbacks are it takes time to get up and running and if you have been hiking all day, sometimes it’s nice to just get cooking asap vs waiting for a fire. Something I am sure you are already aware of; know where to find dry wood in the rain and know several ways to start a fire and have them on you. I always bring an Esbit as a backup if I am going to use wood.
I've had an MSR whisperlite type stove for years and it's served me well. With that said, I've been very intrigued by the Biolite wood burning stove since it will convert the heat to power and gives you the ability to charge electonics from it. I've only seen it online so I don't know much about packability. http://www.biolitestove.com/products/biolite-campstove
I also have lust for the Kelly Kettle mentioned above. That would be more of a base camp utensil but the cool factor is very high for me on that one.
SeriousStudent
01-10-16, 09:43
I have an MSR X-GK stove that is close to 40 years old now. It will burn white gas, unleaded gas, diesel, Wild Turkey (oops, wrong bottle in the dark), or just about anything with a flashpoint.
I experimented with wood stoves, but got a bit tired of the constant wood hunt in rainy climates. With your little guys, it could be another part of the fun adventure "Let's help Daddy find wood."
I would recommend getting a quality brand. MSR is my personal fave, since they make maintenance and repair kits, that allow you to extend the life of the stove.
One potential drawback to them is the noise. Mine will boil water in 1.8 picoseconds, but it does sound like an F/A-18 launch. The wood stoves are obviously more peaceful.
And one last caveat: If you find your self hiking and or camping in the desert a lot, where's all that wood coming from? If you have to pack it in, might as well get the most efficient system possible.
My GHB's have Esbit stoves, but that is also not intended as a long-term use case. I'm only anticipating them being used for 24-36 hours.
Hope that helps. If you need/want more info, shoot me an email. I hope everyone is doing well, and you are kicking ass in school.
/dev/ar-15
01-10-16, 11:24
I've got the original BioLite and it works well as a stove. Accessories I've picked up along the way include a larger cooking grill, a Kettle that doubles as a case for the stove. While it will generate electricity (assuming the battery pack has enough initial charge left to run the fan and put more O2 into the equation. If so, the battery charges from the fire) to run a light, I personally found it a bit lacking in terms of charging my iPhone. I've got my eye on the newer BaseCamp stove that is larger and presumably generates more power. All of this is a bit pricey and still dependent on a recharging battery, so not completely self-sufficient. One of the selling points is the more complete combustion such that these stoves can be used in more confined spaces with lessened concern over breathing dirty air. Would never recommend using inside a tent or completely enclosed space...
Mr. Goodtimes
01-10-16, 11:33
It's infinitely easier to utilize a gas burning stove than wood. I've seen people dick around with alcohol and wood stoves and it always looks like a PITA. I have a Snowpeak titanium and love it, but I'll admit it's the only stove I've used. I bought it years ago when I first got into backpacking and I like it so much I haven't seen a need to try anything else.
With backpacking, like anything else, you have to weigh your pros and cons. I buy the same fuel every time and always cook the same meals on the trail, so I know exactly how many meals I can get out of a canister. For me the pure convenience of a gas stove outweighs the marginal weight penalty, and I'm a real gram counter.
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Any thoughts on the solo stove?
We recently received an MSR pocket rocket stove.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000A8C5QE/ref=pd_aw_sim_468_of_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=41%2BzoN5pk7L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_SL500_SR100%2C100_&refRID=0M0AP4BZ3ZT6ZZ5PPSNK
Its lightweight and compact with a hard plastic storage case.
Very impressive heating performance with the MSR iso-butane-propane fuel.
Very hard to beat a Whisperlite. I have one from the early 80's (International?) that has been great. Picked up an open box Dragonfly for $30, and its a bit faster to setup, and just as hot. But much noisier and not multifuel like the whisperlite international.
As soon as you mentioned kids my immediate thought was MSR liquid fuel. As intriguing as the twig/bio stoves are, I don't want to be dependent on finding dry fuel.
One other comment, if not backpacking, I have started using a propane single burner (Coleman?) that uses the normal, fat green propane canisters. It was given to me, and I thought I'd never use it. But its handy, fast, and simple. My wife can light it, as could kids. But that's when car camping.
Can't say enough good about MSR, just a very solid track record.
My 2 cents; I have been doing this for a long time and used to be an outfitter. If you are going to buy a gas stove, I would stick with MSR, they are simply the best. If you are cooking for yourself and a group, I would 100% go with a stove of liquid gas. If you get in an oh sh*t situation, liquid gas affords you the ability to open up the canister and start a fire with white gas. This option has saved my life on a one occasion.
Liquid gas stoves also give you the option to make some really great food on the trail and not just boil water. Canister stoves are even better at this but do not afford you the Sh*t hit the fan scenario and can be expensive over the life of the stove. You also have to pack out your canisters. They can be lighter and a better option for simmering vs liquid gas as the system is already pressurised vs the art of properly pressuring liquid gas for a simmer. The MSR WhisperLite is the gold standard for reliability and ability to use a multitude of gas sources. They now have one that will also take canisters as well as liquid fuels - http://amzn.to/1OkaG3c
If I am just out with another person for a short trip (2-4 days) or by myself, I generally take an Esbit Ultralight stove. Esbit stoves are a very simple small aluminum box that open to make a stove and burns Esbit tablets. The tablets weigh nothing and burn for 12 minutes which is plenty of time to boil water. You can also use them as a fire starter if needed. I own about 5 stoves but this is my preferred setup although not really conducive to cooking for a group. Here is a link to the Esbit - http://amzn.to/1RDcEjs
If you are going to do wood, I would recommend the Emberlit Stove. They come in stainless and titanium. I would go with the titanium as you lose 10 oz in the deal but the stainless is cheaper - http://amzn.to/1RDd7ST.
Wood is a great resource as its free and easy to cook with. Drawbacks are it takes time to get up and running and if you have been hiking all day, sometimes it’s nice to just get cooking asap vs waiting for a fire. Something I am sure you are already aware of; know where to find dry wood in the rain and know several ways to start a fire and have them on you. I always bring an Esbit as a backup if I am going to use wood.
Thanks for all the great info! Looks like an MSR will be in my near future. I'll probably get the Emberlit as well to try it out and have another option.
ETA - Thank you everyone for contributing. Rather than hitting a bunch of quotes and bumping this I'll say one thanks to all!
Hope that helps. If you need/want more info, shoot me an email. I hope everyone is doing well, and you are kicking ass in school.
It does brother! Expect an email inbound in the next few days. Hope all's well with you and yours!
This actually looks pretty slick for $10 http://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Ultralight-Portable-Backpacking-Ignition/dp/B00B4FY8YO/ref=pd_sim_468_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=41xPvWRWpIL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1BVKNQRP9V230XSX8S3V
A Svea 123R is very simple, with very few parts to possibly lose. Compact, hot, but relatively loud.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Svea_123R.jpg/240px-Svea_123R.jpg
I've used the MSR Whisperlite and Pocket Rocket in the field, along with the Coleman Exponent. A few others in base camp or demo settings. For easiest set-up, minimum footprint, and eat-now, the Pocket Rocket is tough to beat.
The Exponent surprised me, and I like it more than I thought I would. Heavy, but multi-fuel and very stable.
SeriousStudent
01-10-16, 22:28
A Svea 123R is very simple, with very few parts to possibly lose. Compact, hot, but relatively loud.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Svea_123R.jpg/240px-Svea_123R.jpg
I do like the Svea's as a tribe. In cold weather, a wee bit of Mautz Fire Ribbon at the base of the vaporizer is quite handy.
http://www.amazon.com/Peregrine-Outfitters-MAUTZ-Fire-Ribbon/dp/B016DS9XJ6
I used to work summer staff at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico, and we used a LOT of the Svea's. Easy to wrench on, but parts were a bit less easy to find, compared to an MSR.
SeriousStudent
01-10-16, 22:34
Irish, I just remembered I have one of the Coleman small butane/propane canister stoves someplace here in the house. It's like this one, but a slightly older model:
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Exponent-F1-Ultralight-Stove/dp/B0009VC7UG/ref=sr_1_35?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1452486845&sr=1-35&refinements=p_89%3AColeman
If you want it, it's yours.
Bluedreaux
01-11-16, 03:00
I've done gas, esbit and wood on backpacking trips. They've al got their good and bad.
But in cold weather a small wood stove will heat a tent, and that's a huge plus for a sissy like me. They'll obviously lose heat quickly, but can be kept very comfortable as long as you're willing to feed them. Getting the tent warm before you have to crawl out of the sleeping bag is a good way to start the day, for me anyway.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z118/Bluedreaux/Colorado%202009/DSC00713.jpg
Mr. Goodtimes
01-11-16, 08:15
@Irish Something else to note is that not all brands of gas canisters are the same. They will all interchange but their mixtures will vary from brand to brand. Ive been told by many people that "it's all the same," well it's actually not.
I had initially noticed when I bought another brand of fuel for the first time that with my Snowpeak stove, the snowpeak canisters boiled water faster and in turn lasted a little longer than other brands. I forgot what component of the mixtureit was (I think propane) but the Snowpeak brand fuel has a higher concentration of one of the components than the other brands that lends it to burn hotter.
After digging a little I found on another forum that almost all the manufacturers very their mixtures a little. Some burn hotter, some burn better in cold weather, some burn better at retarded altitudes etc...
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Thank you all for the great suggestions and advice. Much appreciated!
Thank you all for the great suggestions and advice. Much appreciated!
I might be late to the party, but I'll use a canister or liquid fuel (whisperlite) stove for expected cooking needs, but I'll have an esbit or canteen cup stove in addition to use should the stove break, leak, run out of fuel, etc.
If you have the time and want to practice the skill of gathering fuel and making a fire, then you can always do that... but if the goal is to eat and move on, then gas is the way to go.
I was out in the woods of Maine leading a camping trip when some remnants from hurricane Katrina came through. We had a Coleman dual burner propane stove for most of the cooking (16 people) but it wouldn't stay lit under those conditions. The Whisperlite I had as a backup did, though. A twiggy fire would have been rough to keep lit... I doubt I would have been able to do it then.
Some additional experience: the dragonfly is less "fiddly" to set up and use. Easier with wider pots, better low flame control, easier (none, really) cleaning.
I'll always keep my whisperlite, but the dragonfly gets more use.
Wish they made white gas lanterns as compact and well made as msr stoves!
Sent from my PRC-104 using phonetics
The only alcohol stove I have tried and liked, but it will hold it's own against gas or canister stoves in getting water to boil especially when considering set up times:
http://www.supercatstove.com
Just purchased a Vargo titanium hexagon wood burner so I will be trying it soon.
Very hard to beat a Whisperlite. I have one from the early 80's (International?) that has been great. Picked up an open box Dragonfly for $30, and its a bit faster to setup, and just as hot. But much noisier and not multifuel like the whisperlite international..
Isn't the Dragonfly multi fuel?
http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/gourmet-cooking/dragonfly/product
Picked up a emberlit fireant today at bass pro, using twigs in the backyard I had a canteen cup boiling in about 15 minutes. I like the way it packs down, and the accessory shelf if you decide to burn fuel tabs or canisters instead of plant matter. The wife and I will be using these on a 110 mile hump in June, as our sole cooking sources for the trip.
hotrodder636
04-30-16, 13:48
I have a Whisperlite, an Emberlit and a Soto Windmaster.
The Whisperlite has the best fuel supply setup, is more rugged and good range of heat. Works well in very cold vice the canisters which take more finessing. Good base for pots and cooking pans.
The Emebrlit titanium is super lightweight, packs small and easy setup. Takes longer to cook and boil than the canister or liquid gas. Messy after use, lots of carbon and soot.
The Soto is nice for superior ease of use, quick boil times. Packs small. After market pot "base" can be added for better balance.
All have their use and have various pros and cons. I would say if I could only pick or have one, I would go with the Whsiperlite.
mkmckinley
04-30-16, 14:09
Is there a difference in the relative safety of these stoves/fuels?* It seems like with people interacting with liquid fuel and an open flame in poor conditions/fatigued/on an empty stomach you'd hear about a lot more folks burning themselves. Is this a concern for you all using stoves?
*I fully understand that this is a complete cherry question but I hope it adds something to the discussion.
I've used a Whisperlite for backpacking, and camping since the early 90's. It has always worked well for me from boiling water to frying freshly caught fish.
sevenhelmet
04-30-16, 15:38
Another Whisperlite fan here. Lightweight, easy to use, and always lights, rain, shine, or wind, and from sea level to 12,000 feet.
hotrodder636
04-30-16, 16:49
Regarding safety of liquid fuel near an open flame...the gas bottle is sealed and pressurized. It's not like you have to continually funnel the fuel into the jet. I would say it is as safe as the canisters.
Regarding safety of liquid fuel near an open flame...the gas bottle is sealed and pressurized. It's not like you have to continually funnel the fuel into the jet. I would say it is as safe as the canisters.
And remember, the canisters are liquid and pressurized as well.
The dangers of liquid fuel come with not using it as intended. Ex: using it to start a campfire!
Horned Toad
05-01-16, 21:24
Pressurized stoves have been out forever, if it was an issues they would have been litigated into oblivion.
Horned Toad
05-01-16, 21:35
I got back into hiking about six years ago and lean towards the ultralight side. I have a Wisperlight but switched to a jet boil. I am not big on cooking and just use it to heat water for food and drinks. The small canister that nests in the cup will last me for a 5 day hike easy. I take a second small canister as an backup. The set up is a bit over a pound and boils water in around 90 seconds. My hikes are usually no colder that 30 degrees and not above 10K, if I passed those parameters, the Wisperlight would go back out. The current jet boil style stoves are so easy to use and so efficient, I can't see messing with anything else, unless you had to because of conditions.
I chose an MSR multi fuel unit years ago, test it about every six months and fires up great. That said I like the fire grates that fold but unless you live on an arid climate or are a really dedicated wood burner, carry dry tinder with you, you are a little at the mercy of fortune to find enough dry kindling to get and keep a cook fire going. I seem to always arrive and pitch camp when the grass/wood is wet with dew or its been raining. Hence the stove, it always fires up.
I REALLY dislike having to bust up my wood that small, so I use Dakota pits. they also save on the wood needed, prevent light showing at night, make it simple to hold the cookpot, heat rocks for burying under your sleeping area, etc. On frozen ground, of course, they are not an option, but I just dont see the little stoves, unless it's an alcohol stove or a paraffin candle type, for discrete fires.
I REALLY dislike having to bust up my wood that small, so I use Dakota pits. they also save on the wood needed, prevent light showing at night, make it simple to hold the cookpot, heat rocks for burying under your sleeping area, etc. On frozen ground, of course, they are not an option, but I just dont see the little stoves, unless it's an alcohol stove or a paraffin candle type, for discrete fires.
Gotta say, as much as I love my trusty MSR, Dakota pits are great assuming that you can dig in the time of year and terrain that you find yourself in. Actually Dakota pits are one of the few fires that I would trust inside of a decent sized shelter (read survival shelter, not a tent)
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