View Full Version : Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputies Murder Suspect (NSFW)
Was the shoot justified? This doesn't look good.
It appears as if one deputy shot the other deputy.
NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjLkZpot_JA
skijunkie55
01-12-16, 09:42
And here we go again....
One of the officer's was shot in the stomach during the struggle. It was later found that the deputy was shot by his partner's gun.
An attorney for Noel Aguilar's family alleged that the video shows one of the deputies planting a weapon on the ground near Aguilar before the 23-year-old man was killed. The video then allegedly shows the same officer pulling out another gun to fire at Aguilar.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/New-Video-Deputy-Involved-Shooting-Family-Asking-Justice-363021911.html
Outlander Systems
01-12-16, 10:04
What's the S.D.'s policy on Taser user?
WickedWillis
01-12-16, 10:25
I watched this video recently, and I side with LEO 99% of the time, but I just cannot see this as justified. Listen to the guy talking to officers through the whole situation. I don't know, people more intelligent on the matter should chime in and give us a take.
diving dave
01-12-16, 10:37
My view might be a tad biased, I worked in law enforcement for 25 yrs....Listening to the video, it appears the suspect had a gun on his body...Struggling to take him into custody. Is it reasonable for one Officer to draw his pistol? I'd say yes. You can see suspect starting to drive upwards, again, is it reasonable to assume he might get a hand on his weapon?Was he actually reaching for it? Officer that fired the first shot screwed up, hit his partner. Not the first time this has happened in LEO work and probably wont be the last.... As the struggle continues, is it reasonable to assume that the shot Officer might think his like is in danger if struggle continues? Its a screwed up situation. As usual, if suspect didnt resist arrest none of this would happen. Glad I'm retired.
Eurodriver
01-12-16, 10:40
As usual, if suspect didnt resist arrest none of this would happen.
A fact that seems to be lost on everyone except LE! :(
A fact that seems to be lost on everyone except LE! :(
I get it and am not le. Don't resisnt, skip all the bullshit and go home, eventually. It's not rocket surgery.
Are we all watching the same video?
0:24 - 0:29 O1 beats handgun out of possession of bad guy, slides that baton thing sort of under his right knee / between his legs and places the weapon in his own waistband.
O2 then shoots 01.
1:32 -- O1 after having been shot, places his right hand on his holstered weapon, then reaches for the bad guys gun in his waistband and places it on the pavement. Maybe he though he shot himself with Mexican carry, I don't know. He didn't say "He shot me" He said "I got shot"... anyway.. .the gun is back on the ground. He fumbles with it a bit, then it's right there near O2s foot. With regard to the bad guy... he can't see it as it's behind his back. The two officer's have what control is being placed on it. The gun is not being struggled over.
So basically... O2 shoots O1, O1 and O2 are in control of bad guys gun, O2 shoots bad guy, then O1 shoots bad guy some more.
Now why they all did what they did, I have no idea. You can write any story you want but that's what I see in the video. That really did happen. I mean I could write a movie script scene based on that which has nothing to do with why those three people came together that day but still include those actions taking place. Someone else could write a completely different one and also include those things.
Maybe they had just watched the bad guy murder a third officer,,, who knows.... but the video clearly shows a certain set of events taking place. I mean it's right there to see.
I have no idea 'why' it all happened, but I'm pretty sure about two things...
1. O2 should not have shot O1
2. O1 should not have stuck what he believed to be a loaded handgun, unholstered, into his waistband in a struggle.
Beyond that I can't imagine what any of them might have been doing or thinking, but there is certainly some factual evidence in the video.
Outlander Systems
01-12-16, 11:57
That said, if I was LE, I'd be concerned about getting the Darren Wilson treatment. All it takes is the City to take a political stance against you, and your life goes down the toilet over some O2 thief.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.
A fact that seems to be lost on everyone except LE! :(
diving dave
01-12-16, 11:57
Was it a gun O1 put in his waistband? I've watched several times I cant tell what it was. If so, I agree, bad move..why not toss it out of the fight ..Another thing to consider in use of force issues, you have to put yourself in the mind of the Officer at the time. Yes video tells a story, but it doesnt take into account is the Officer in reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury?He/she has to be able to articulate that fact and it has to be reasonable based on the circumstances. In any event, in typical CA fasion, good shoot or not the family will get a nice check.
A fact that seems to be lost on everyone except LE! :(
No, I don't think it's lost on anyone. If you are generally law abiding you are not going to resist. In fact you will probably avoid being placed in a situation where resistance is an option.
Criminals have to resist. They are after all, criminals..... that's what they do. They break laws, they cheat, they steal, they kill, they rob, they resist.
Criminals resist.... that is their life. Saying if they didn't resist everything would be ok is like saying if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their asses.
Oh man, that looks bad. I am not LEO so I can't possibly have any real insight but shooting the perp at point black range after your partner shoots you can't possibly boad well.
Was it a gun O1 put in his waistband?
Go to 2:08... that's what, it appears to me, came out of his waistband. Now go back to 1:35. Listen to the video too. Guns have certain sounds, not that sound alone or that something else couldn't make that sound. To me, it looks and sounds like a gun that was placed and then retrieved from his waistband.
I'm not sure I buy the "plant a gun" theory. Even being placed back in action so to speak. I'm not convinced that was with intent to deceive. I think it was just reactionary wondering how he got shot and wishing for a 'do over' to the point before he got shot.
ETA: At 0:51 you can see the baton roll away. So we know that is not what got stuck in his waistband. Also if you go to 0:29 you can see what looks very much like the grip/magazine sticking out from his hand ( below the plane of his pinky ). It's a clear frame between two railing posts. Also we know it's not handcuffs as they are clearly seen in another frame.
SomeOtherGuy
01-12-16, 13:48
Was it a gun O1 put in his waistband? I've watched several times I cant tell what it was. If so, I agree, bad move..why not toss it out of the fight ..
Speculating here, but it looks like the two officers were in an apartment or housing area and had a somewhat hostile group nearby. Tossing a gun that might then get into the hands of the arrestee's buddy wouldn't be good either.
I'm wondering how O2 managed to shoot O1 and whether that pretty much resulted in the suspect getting shot.
The video by itself doesn't let me determine if this was murder or a shooting that seemed rightful to the officer doing it, although possibly resulting from him being accidentally shot by the other officer.
In general, if a person reasonably believes they are defending themselves from a deadly attack, and that belief is mistaken, the shooting will be excused, as their reasonable belief would have made it a justified shooting if the belief was factually correct. Of course I'm probably old fashioned and naive talking about the law, when it seems like political points matter more these days.
Likewise, if the officer didn't believe he needed to use deadly force but just felt like killing the suspect, that would be murder and I would support his prosecution. But with the video alone I have NO IDEA what happened overall. This video is not clear cut, unlike the South Carolina video of an officer casually shooting an unarmed and fleeing suspect.
Of course, the usual political agitators, BLM and that ilk will only see what they want to see.
I am most bothered by the fact that O2 seems to have shot his partner.
Moose-Knuckle
01-12-16, 15:02
Was it a gun O1 put in his waistband? I've watched several times I cant tell what it was. If so, I agree, bad move..why not toss it out of the fight .
Maintain control of the weapon.
The neighborhood they are in looks like your typical high crime area, when other deputies arrived on scene they drew their weapons (the large black deputy even points his at someone off camera at the top of the stairwell) and one has a shotgun telling people to get back in their apartments. I have no doubt that a loose handgun laying about in the area could easily be picked up by a local and used on the officers.
diving dave
01-12-16, 15:44
I agree, to a point..Tossing it out means out of reach of the suspect...I dont see any other folks in the immediate area. Tucking a suspects gun into your waistband while still struggling to get a guy cuffed is not a good idea, in my opinion. Not to mention I've seen crooks do some crazy shit to guns, cutting off trigger guards, etc..The other thing I wonder if the shot Officer even realized at the time he was shot by his partner...Fights are chaotic, if he's fighting with a suspect to get him cuffed and suddenly "Bang!", theres a chance he may have thought the suspect shot him..Could that play into his decision? I've been in fights that were caught on security cameras...And I remember a few times afterwards thinking, "did I do that?I dont even remember doing that.."
Are we all watching the same video?
0:24 - 0:29 O1 beats handgun out of possession of bad guy, slides that baton thing sort of under his right knee / between his legs and places the weapon in his own waistband.
O2 then shoots 01.
1:32 -- O1 after having been shot, places his right hand on his holstered weapon, then reaches for the bad guys gun in his waistband and places it on the pavement. Maybe he though he shot himself with Mexican carry, I don't know. He didn't say "He shot me" He said "I got shot"... anyway.. .the gun is back on the ground. He fumbles with it a bit, then it's right there near O2s foot. With regard to the bad guy... he can't see it as it's behind his back. The two officer's have what control is being placed on it. The gun is not being struggled over.
So basically... O2 shoots O1, O1 and O2 are in control of bad guys gun, O2 shoots bad guy, then O1 shoots bad guy some more.
Now why they all did what they did, I have no idea. You can write any story you want but that's what I see in the video. That really did happen. I mean I could write a movie script scene based on that which has nothing to do with why those three people came together that day but still include those actions taking place. Someone else could write a completely different one and also include those things.
Maybe they had just watched the bad guy murder a third officer,,, who knows.... but the video clearly shows a certain set of events taking place. I mean it's right there to see.
I have no idea 'why' it all happened, but I'm pretty sure about two things...
1. O2 should not have shot O1
2. O1 should not have stuck what he believed to be a loaded handgun, unholstered, into his waistband in a struggle.
Beyond that I can't imagine what any of them might have been doing or thinking, but there is certainly some factual evidence in the video.
Pretty much agree with the above. I also don't understand why O1 would decide to pull his weapon and shoot the bad guy point blank like that 2-3 times. The sequence of events doesn't look to good for the LE's
I've been in fights that were caught on security cameras...And I remember a few times afterwards thinking, "did I do that?I dont even remember doing that.."
I think that's what happened when he pulled the gun back out. I don't think he was 'planting a gun'. I think he was rightfully confused about how he just got shot.
Think about it. You are wrestling with a guy who you believe you have just disarmed. You are controlling his arms, at least one cuffed. You have just stuck his gun in your pants. You get shot........ You sure aren't going to think your partner shot you. You are pretty sure your gun was secure..... you know you just put the bad guys gun in your pants.....
I'm thinking your natural reaction is going to be WTF.... let's put things back like they were and have a 'do over'. You can see him kinda stepping through the process of how the hell could I have just been shot in the gut sort of like he's trying to turn back the clock mentally.
@SteyrAUG "I am most bothered by the fact that O2 seems to have shot his partner."
No kidding Officer1 really got screwed in the whole ordeal. It looks at first glance that he is sort of a murdering bad cop.... but he's just been shot at less than 2' distance by his partner and from the looks of things didn't see it coming. He was actually doing pretty much normal stuff up until he got shot. I mean telling someone "I'm gonna kill you bitch" wouldn't exactly cause me to want to go along with the program because of the trust I sense, but, he really didn't do anything crazy until after he got shot.
Other than the gun in his pants and I get why he might have done it. I agree don't toss it across the yard but damn... I guess it seemed like the right thing to do at the time. ... and honestly it probably didn't impact matters other than now he's being accused of trying to plant it.
dwhitehorne
01-12-16, 16:18
We are engrained with secure the weapon. Tossing it is definitely a bad idea in an open unsecured area. Stuffing a loaded (cocked weapon) in your waist band not a good idea but in a fight for your life I can understand that is what comes natural. He probably did even realize what he was doing other than trying to secure the weapon.
Verbal commands, good communications, physical restraint, baton strikes, officer yelling I'm shot then the suspect is still trying to resist an is shot. They climbed up and down the force continuum ladder even if we aren't suppose to use that model anymore. Think of how many times you have been sprayed by other officers in a struggle. Fighting for your life with a gun in your hand sucks because when you clench that fist the trigger finger always curls on the trigger. We can all think of a couple of situations over our carreers where we are glad a camera wasn't rolling. Police work is not pretty like television. Hopefully the public will realize this at some point after they watch enough videos. David
I agree, to a point..Tossing it out means out of reach of the suspect...I dont see any other folks in the immediate area. Tucking a suspects gun into your waistband while still struggling to get a guy cuffed is not a good idea, in my opinion. Not to mention I've seen crooks do some crazy shit to guns, cutting off trigger guards, etc..The other thing I wonder if the shot Officer even realized at the time he was shot by his partner...Fights are chaotic, if he's fighting with a suspect to get him cuffed and suddenly "Bang!", theres a chance he may have thought the suspect shot him..Could that play into his decision? I've been in fights that were caught on security cameras...And I remember a few times afterwards thinking, "did I do that?I dont even remember doing that.."
Not trying to justify anything, just my observations and a bit of conjecture.
It does appear the first officer gains control of the suspect's weapon and puts it in his waistband. What I can't tell is if the second officer realizes this. I did not note any verbal communication by O1 telling O2 he had the pistol. O1 starts handcuffing and the suspect increases resistance, pulling his knees up as if to stand. O2 then shoots the suspect as well as O1 (accidentally). If O2 did not realize O1 had control of the weapon, or reason to believe (rule of 2) the suspect had another weapon, the shooting by O2 would seem reasonable in light of the fact the suspect was moving to a position where he could more likely initiate an assault with a firearm in his waistband. At least one of the suspect's arms seemed unsecured.
O1 may have believed the suspect's weapon was responsible for his wound. His injury coincided with the increased physical struggle. It would explain his statement as well as his removal of the weapon from his person.
O1 shoots the still struggling suspect. O1 knows he is wounded, and may not be sure how long he can remain in the fight. The suspect's weapon is now loose on the ground in close proximity. If O1 is not sure O2 can maintain control over the suspect sufficiently alone to prevent the suspect breaking loose and regaining his pistol, it would be reasonable to utilize deadly force to prevent this from happening. Neither officer is required to wait for the suspect to actually recover the weapon and begin firing at them before they can fire.
Now I am not a fan of placing an unknown street gun in my pants out of fear of discharge. Having said that, leaving it loose or tossing it indiscriminately is also not an option. Personally I may have tried initially to shove the gun under the adjacent car far enough (if feasible) to prevent easy recovery but that is a judgement call that is hard to make from the vantage of the video. You can't toss the pistol without risking discharge as well.
This looked to be a really bad set of circumstances for the officers. While I can see a fact pattern in which their actions are reasonable, I do not know if that is in fact what happened. I do feel additional communication may have helped, but I was not there on the ground with them and do not know what they know. I do feel none of this happens if one, the suspect does not (and I am presuming here) illegally carry a firearm and two, resists his own arrest. I also do not feel there was an attempt to "plant" the gun. Hopefully a fair and thorough investigation can take place to determine the facts without extraneous outside (political) influence to determine the facts of the matter before any judgements are made.
This is ****ed. Idk, I have been in fights that have been confusing, and it's been kind of hard to tell what's happening. I'm holding somebody down, they're punching me, i'm punching them, my buddies in blue are punching mostly them and sometimes me... who knows. Glad I'm not those guys, because I don't see this ending well.
diving dave
01-12-16, 18:05
Not trying to justify anything, just my observations and a bit of conjecture.
It does appear the first officer gains control of the suspect's weapon and puts it in his waistband. What I can't tell is if the second officer realizes this. I did not note any verbal communication by O1 telling O2 he had the pistol. O1 starts handcuffing and the suspect increases resistance, pulling his knees up as if to stand. O2 then shoots the suspect as well as O1 (accidentally). If O2 did not realize O1 had control of the weapon, or reason to believe (rule of 2) the suspect had another weapon, the shooting by O2 would seem reasonable in light of the fact the suspect was moving to a position where he could more likely initiate an assault with a firearm in his waistband. At least one of the suspect's arms seemed unsecured.
O1 may have believed the suspect's weapon was responsible for his wound. His injury coincided with the increased physical struggle. It would explain his statement as well as his removal of the weapon from his person.
O1 shoots the still struggling suspect. O1 knows he is wounded, and may not be sure how long he can remain in the fight. The suspect's weapon is now loose on the ground in close proximity. If O1 is not sure O2 can maintain control over the suspect sufficiently alone to prevent the suspect breaking loose and regaining his pistol, it would be reasonable to utilize deadly force to prevent this from happening. Neither officer is required to wait for the suspect to actually recover the weapon and begin firing at them before they can fire.
Now I am not a fan of placing an unknown street gun in my pants out of fear of discharge. Having said that, leaving it loose or tossing it indiscriminately is also not an option. Personally I may have tried initially to shove the gun under the adjacent car far enough (if feasible) to prevent easy recovery but that is a judgement call that is hard to make from the vantage of the video. You can't toss the pistol without risking discharge as well.
This looked to be a really bad set of circumstances for the officers. While I can see a fact pattern in which their actions are reasonable, I do not know if that is in fact what happened. I do feel additional communication may have helped, but I was not there on the ground with them and do not know what they know. I do feel none of this happens if one, the suspect does not (and I am presuming here) illegally carry a firearm and two, resists his own arrest. I also do not feel there was an attempt to "plant" the gun. Hopefully a fair and thorough investigation can take place to determine the facts without extraneous outside (political) influence to determine the facts of the matter before any judgements are made.
Well stated.
O1 is going to have a really hard time if a grand jury sees him un-holster his weapon, place it against a prone, albeit struggling, suspect's back, and discharging it 3 times
I'm not a LEO, I have worked as a civilian contractor to law enforcement
I am an attorney, though, and I know a fair amount about how grand juries see things, as well as juries
I thought the grand jury in the tamir rice case made the appropriate determination based on the evidence presented
This video will be much more damning and harder for average joe empaneled grand jury member to ignore or justify as a reasonable action
Again, I'm not judging the officers....others can do that...just presenting my opinion on how this will be viewed if it gets to court
Whiskey_Bravo
01-12-16, 23:00
Verbal commands, good communications, physical restraint, baton strikes, officer yelling I'm shot then the suspect is still trying to resist an is shot. T
You know I have to admit if I was prone on the ground with two dudes on top of me I would probably resist even a little extra if one of said dudes cooked off a round above my head and into the stomach of the other guy laying on top of me.
As for the officer putting an unknown weapon in his waistband, yeah that seems like a really bad idea but people make bad/rash decisions sometimes when they are under pressure. This video is evidence of that.
No matter what this video doesn't look good at all. One officer pulls out his gun while laying on the suspect during a struggle and shoots at the suspect but hits his partner. Then both officers shoot him again in the back while suspect is still prone albeit struggling. As others have said, you put yourself in the wrong place and then struggle/fight with LEO you are asking for bad things to happen intentional or not.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-12-16, 23:12
I just put this presentation together for a small training. I'll leave it right here as food for thought:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1bjyXC6ksZQwFUpzmNn3EyI-s6w--GJmvhvmwzYOkm3Y/pub?start=true&loop=false&delayms=5000
What's the S.D.'s policy on Taser user?
L.A. County Sheriff's Dept.is a large agency. Not all Deputies and field staff carry a Taser.
Until you have been on the ground wrestling with some A-hole trying to hand-cuff him, when said individual is high on crank, cocaine, or other controlled substance, then it is hard to have a frame of reference.
What I saw in the video is an individual, armed, and resisting arrest. Bad decision for him to fight the Deputies while armed. It was telling to myself that the suspect, threw off two large men weighed down with duty gear and vests. It indicates that he was likely high on something.
The item in the Deputies hand was an ASP collapsible baton. Too bad they didn't have aluminum PR-24 or straight wood sticks instead.
I fought a guy high on crank and hard strikes to the head and body didn't phase him. Took him to the ground and choked him out. Fighting someone high chemically or naturally (adrenaline) is a memorable experience.
The L.A. District Attorney's Office will investigate the incident. Even though the video looks bad, these Deputies will not be criminally charged. Convicting a Police Officer or Deputy of murder is not easy. This incident is a culmination of a set of bad circumstances.
Long Beach California has some very bad areas. I am certain that the cat-calls in the background audio lend to the eventuality of others coming to the suspect's aid. Hence the response shown in the video of other Deputies, Long Beach Police Dept. (black uniformed) Officers responding with weapons drawn.
Monday morning quarter backing is easy from the comfort of home.
Moose-Knuckle
01-13-16, 00:30
Long Beach California has some very bad areas. I am certain that the cat-calls in the background audio lend to the eventuality of others coming to the suspect's aid. Hence the response shown in the video of other Deputies, Long Beach Police Dept. (black uniformed) Officers responding with weapons drawn.
This is my observation as well. The video is a camera phone, you can hear the woman holding it yell the address to the shot deputy several times. We don't know how many people were standing around watching waiting to intervene. The suspect could have lived in one of those apartments and his homies/familia were right there. We can hear a contingent of them yell at the deputies after they opened fire.
Averageman
01-13-16, 06:21
If not contrained by the rules that favor the bad guy, if your fighting for a gun the guy has a hand on shooting him in the back of the mellon makes a lot of sense.
Maybe the people who make the rules and pass judgement need to meet someone like the bad guy here, perhaps in a dark parking garage with their Wife and Kids in tow. Maybe if they live they might think twice about passing some judgement.
I just put this presentation together for a small training. I'll leave it right here as food for thought:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1bjyXC6ksZQwFUpzmNn3EyI-s6w--GJmvhvmwzYOkm3Y/pub?start=true&loop=false&delayms=5000
Pretty well thought out.
WickedWillis
01-13-16, 11:08
If not contrained by the rules that favor the bad guy, if your fighting for a gun the guy has a hand on shooting him in the back of the mellon makes a lot of sense.
Maybe the people who make the rules and pass judgement need to meet someone like the bad guy here, perhaps in a dark parking garage with their Wife and Kids in tow. Maybe if they live they might think twice about passing some judgement.
So how do you feel about holding Officers accountable for their mistakes?
Averageman
01-13-16, 11:34
So how do you feel about holding Officers accountable for their mistakes?
I don't have issue with holding Officers accountable for their misconduct, with mistakes that happen, I believe especially in a case like this, there is a great likelihood that until the ballistics report comes in the smartest thing to do is nothing but support the Officers.
We're all watching the video and for the most part nobody here can clearly sort it out, I don't think anyone else will either until all the facts are in. All that being what it is, I have no doubt because of the current political climate people who have never been in such a situation would be happy to send this guy(s) to prison.
It was telling to myself that the suspect, threw off two large men weighed down with duty gear and vests. It indicates that he was likely high on something.
I was wondering how he kept squirming out from under 600lbs of heavy trying to flatten him and twist him into a pretzel.
You know someone mentioned a tazer... If you taze someone while someone else is holding them won't it shock both people? If that's the case they couldn't let him go to taze him because then he would have shot them. Or is that not how tazers work?
Mo_Zam_Beek
01-13-16, 11:56
Tragic situation all the way around
I don't have issue with holding Officers accountable for their misconduct, with mistakes that happen, I believe especially in a case like this, there is a great likelihood that until the ballistics report comes in the smartest thing to do is nothing but support the Officers.
^^^ This.
We're all watching the video and for the most part nobody here can clearly sort it out, I don't think anyone else will either until all the facts are in. All that being what it is, I have no doubt because of the current political climate people who have never been in such a situation would be happy to send this guy(s) to prison.
The only thing I took from that vid was what I know; such encounters are dynamic, confusing, scary, and not prone to be explained by vid snippets. I will give the benefit of the doubt to the LEOs until I can read the full fact patterns of the event to decide.
The title of this thread was biased troll bait.
WickedWillis
01-13-16, 13:16
^^^ This.
The only thing I took from that vid was what I know; such encounters are dynamic, confusing, scary, and not prone to be explained by vid snippets. I will give the benefit of the doubt to the LEOs until I can read the full fact patterns of the event to decide.
The title of this thread was biased troll bait.
I think this should be the mindset of the American public when it comes to law enforcement though, and obviously it's the complete opposite. Cops are viewed as monsters because of the liberal media and the black agenda. If this comes back that the partner, shot the officer, the shitstorm is only going to increase.
diving dave
01-13-16, 17:24
I was wondering how he kept squirming out from under 600lbs of heavy trying to flatten him and twist him into a pretzel.
You know someone mentioned a tazer... If you taze someone while someone else is holding them won't it shock both people? If that's the case they couldn't let him go to taze him because then he would have shot them. Or is that not how tazers work?
Generally, no. the voltage will run between the 2 probes. Tasers work well sometimes, but not always.
The deputy who stuffed the gun in his belt (O1) gets shot by second deputy (O2), but thinks he either got shot by the gun in his belt, OR by the perp with another gun. He has no idea how it happened, he takes the perp's gun from his belt to make sure he still had it in his possession (he did) AND his partner doesn't say "I shot and missed..." so he assumes the perp has a second gun, AND is still fighting and going to turn the second gun on them again.
O1's reaction seems justified for what he knew, or thought he knew, was going down.
"I'm shot, I can't see this guys hands, I had his other heater in my belt already -- I better shoot this guy and make him stop before one of us gets shot worse."
Very bad situation. Extremely unfortunate.
The deputy who stuffed the gun in his belt (O1) gets shot by second deputy (O2), but thinks he either got shot by the gun in his belt, OR by the perp with another gun. He has no idea how it happened, he takes the perp's gun from his belt to make sure he still had it in his possession (he did) AND his partner doesn't say "I shot and missed..." so he assumes the perp has a second gun, AND is still fighting and going to turn the second gun on them again.
O1's reaction seems justified for what he knew, or thought he knew, was going down.
"I'm shot, I can't see this guys hands, I had his other heater in my belt already -- I better shoot this guy and make him stop before one of us gets shot worse."
Very bad situation. Extremely unfortunate.
I'll echo this opinion as well.
Goes to show the importance of communication if nothing else.
Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
If you're justified in shooting someone you're justified in shooting them anywhere. Including the back. What other target did he have? The suspect drove the bus on this one. The deputies were responding to his actions.
In general, if a person reasonably believes they are defending themselves from a deadly attack, and that belief is mistaken, the shooting will be excused, as their reasonable belief would have made it a justified shooting if the belief was factually correct. Of course I'm probably old fashioned and naive talking about the law, when it seems like political points matter more these days.
True.
The deputy who stuffed the gun in his belt (O1) gets shot by second deputy (O2), but thinks he either got shot by the gun in his belt, OR by the perp with another gun. He has no idea how it happened, he takes the perp's gun from his belt to make sure he still had it in his possession (he did) AND his partner doesn't say "I shot and missed..." so he assumes the perp has a second gun, AND is still fighting and going to turn the second gun on them again.
O1's reaction seems justified for what he knew, or thought he knew, was going down.
"I'm shot, I can't see this guys hands, I had his other heater in my belt already -- I better shoot this guy and make him stop before one of us gets shot worse."
Very bad situation. Extremely unfortunate.
Well said. The deputy who fired multiple times did so in self defense. Did his vest stop the shot? Was he bleeding? What did he think and know at the time? That is how this should be judged. Not by what we see or think we see on video from a very different perspective. Nobody was trying to murder the suspect. They asked multiple times for the address to get back up and medical help.
The issue I see is the lack of medical aid to the handcuffed suspect. Maybe they knew he was dead. The video cuts off before we see anyone check him.
The deputy who stuffed the gun in his belt (O1) gets shot by second deputy (O2), but thinks he either got shot by the gun in his belt, OR by the perp with another gun. He has no idea how it happened, he takes the perp's gun from his belt to make sure he still had it in his possession (he did) AND his partner doesn't say "I shot and missed..." so he assumes the perp has a second gun, AND is still fighting and going to turn the second gun on them again.
O1's reaction seems justified for what he knew, or thought he knew, was going down.
+1
Just cause you find one weapon on a perp do you stop since you found the gun?
O1 is in for an emotional roller coaster ride when he finds out O2 shot him.
Actually, I kinda admire their initial restraint and having the foresite to keep it PG for the audiance but I guess in these times with techno, it's now the norm.
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