View Full Version : Need some advice on a new AR
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 10:34
First post here so take it easy on me! I'm a newbie to the AR platform. I've always wanted one and a new coyote hunting hobby has given me the itch to finally buy one. Hunting and long range target shooting will be my primary use. I have no delusions that my life will ever depend on this rifle but I still want a quality rifle that is "built right" because I don't like the idea of buying anything where corners are cut. Accuracy, reliability, and a nice trigger are 3 things I know will be important to me. I'd also like it to be light weight and balance well. I'll be mounting a quality scope, bipod, and possibly a flashlight for night hunting. I've been looking on the internet at brands like BCM, Larue, DD, LMT, Colt, Etc..... I don't know enough about them to determine which rifle is going to suit my needs and offer the best bang for the buck. Ideally I'd like to spend as little as possible to get a quality gun that will shoot sub MOA and be "built right". Can you help point me in the right direction.
diving dave
01-12-16, 10:41
All brands you listed are top notch, the Larue will be $ though....For whacking yotes, I'd take a hard look at a 18 inch BCM build.
I would recommend getting a Blemished BCM lower and then get a 16" BCM Stainless Steel barrel with a 13" or 15" BCM KMR handguard. Then upgrade the trigger to a Geissele SSA or better yet an SSA-E and add in the other goodies you mentioned and you'll be all set.
From a reliability, value, and flexibility standpoint you can't go wrong with this setup. This is a rifle you could hunt with as well as fight with.
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ColtSeavers
01-12-16, 10:49
You'll probably want to look at a longer barrel for improved velocity for flatter trajectory and further terminal performance range, along with a free float rail to aid in accuracy as well as a flat top upper to mount a scope. I'd also suggest looking at an 18" barrel minimum based on long range shooting desire (for reasons mentioned above) and of the companies you've listed, they all (except maybe Colt) make quality ARs with those features. I'd also suggest going with a rifle length gas system.
crusader377
01-12-16, 10:53
I would second both diving dave and n517rv post. I think the following option would also meet your needs for a little under $1200 if you can ease back your accuracy requirement slightly.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Standard-16-Mid-Length-ENHANCED-Light-Weight-p/bcm-urg-mid-16elw-kmr-a-13.htm
$598 or $670 with BCG and Charging handle
Combined with the BCM lower with new trigger $380
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM
Plus add a set of magpul BUS ($90) magpul STR stock $75 and you have a very good all round rifle for $1200.
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 11:09
One other thing I should mention is I don't really care for some of the AR stocks with a lot of slop in them. Seems most the magpul stocks I've handled rattled around a lot. I handled a Daniel Defense and that one seemed to be a nice tight fit and no slop. How are some of the other manufactures in this area.
Also are any of these brands going to be better on average as far as accuracy? I really like that Larue offers a sub MOA guarantee but then again it looks like you pay for it. It also looks like it's harder to find a deal on a Larue.
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 11:44
Also what is the difference between BCM Lightweight and BCM Enhanced Lightweight?
skijunkie55
01-12-16, 11:50
Also what is the difference between BCM Lightweight and BCM Enhanced Lightweight?
Barrel profile and weight. I'd personally go with the BFH Enhanced Light Weight barrel.
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 11:52
Barrel profile and weight. I'd personally go with the BFH Enhanced Light Weight barrel.
How is the enhanced better?
Also what is the difference between BCM Lightweight and BCM Enhanced Lightweight?
From BCM website:
BCM Exclusive Design
Continuous taper designed for optimal weight, balance, and performance on a semi-automatic carbine.
Heavier profile toward the rear near chamber area.
Thinner tapered profile out front.
No sharp handguard cap shoulder for improved barrel harmonics.
Approximate Weight: 1lb 5oz.
Please note for gas block selection, barrel journal measures .625"
All brands you listed are top notch, the Larue will be $ though....For whacking yotes, I'd take a hard look at a 18 inch BCM build.
^^^^^This in a middie.
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 13:25
From BCM website:
BCM Exclusive Design
Continuous taper designed for optimal weight, balance, and performance on a semi-automatic carbine.
Heavier profile toward the rear near chamber area.
Thinner tapered profile out front.
No sharp handguard cap shoulder for improved barrel harmonics.
Approximate Weight: 1lb 5oz.
Please note for gas block selection, barrel journal measures .625"
So does this type setup typically shoot 1 moa or better?
turnburglar
01-12-16, 13:47
So does this type setup typically shoot 1 moa or better?
No one can make that kind of accuracy guarantee, because '1 moa' is kinda subjective. Some people accept a 3 shot group. Others (molon) spend serious time and put rifles to the test on a 10 shot group, and usually 3 groups for significant data. Also, you should ask yourself what kinda bullets you will put down the tube. If it's all match ammo, than '1 moa' is a lot more realistic than with off the shelf soft points. Lastly, while the AR is capable of excellent accuracy, most of these guns are still rack grade rifles and not true match grade. For example Molon, has a krieger barreled AR15, that he gets 10 shot groups just over a half moa with hand loads.
Without getting too wrapped around the axle on '1 moa' Id' say with match ammo and a good quality stainless barrel 16-18" will produce a 'good' group.
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 13:59
Maybe I should re phrase my wants. I want the most accurate "battle rifle" possible. Not looking for a heavy barreled tank. Right now doesn't sound like bcm is really what I want. If i have to spend Larue money to get it that's what I'll do.
AR of good/premium 18" fluted barrel, Wylde chambering, w/ Geiselle SSA-E trigger - lower/upper of choice - mounted to a Luth-AR buttstock would me my choice.
That's what I did and from the bench using Privi ammo she'll hold/print well within the X-Ring on the std high power 200-yd target.
Have you thought about building one to the specs that you want? I'm in the 18 barrel camp for a 5.56 hunting rifle. Check out the Rainier Arms Select Match Barrel, it shoots like a heavy barrel but carries like a light weight. The Brands you listed have great factory set ups, however building one will allow you to pick and choose the features you want without shelling out more $ than you have to.
Maybe I should re phrase my wants. I want the most accurate "battle rifle" possible. Not looking for a heavy barreled tank. Right now doesn't sound like bcm is really what I want. If i have to spend Larue money to get it that's what I'll do.
If you are giving serious thought about going with LaRue, you may want to give them a call and check their production status and wait times. Sometimes they are swamped with orders and it may take quite a while for them to actually catch up and get their rifles out to the customers. With the political climate taking another turn for the worst (talking gun bans and restrictions), people go crazy ordering and the companies fall behind after being overwhelmed with new orders.
skijunkie55
01-12-16, 14:41
Check out Ballistic Advantage barrels. They "guarantee' sub-MOA accuracy with match-grade ammo.
http://ballisticadvantage.com/
BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 15:46
Don't really think I want to build a gun. I have no clue what I'm doing in that regard.
Grab a BCM blem lower and an 18" ss410 upper with 15" kmr-a.
Easy peasy.
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Man honestly, I'm not sure you know enough about the "platform" to really know what you want. Your early wish list of sub MOA/tight furniture, etc, sounds more like a bench/competition gun. Then you say you want a "battle rifle". What I would advise is reading up on which brands are considered gtg, and then go handle them at the LGS. Maybe find a range that will let you rent and shoot them. This will give you a more realistic perspective of what the AR design is and was meant to be...a mil grade weapon.
If you're coming to the AR hobby from the traditional rifle/shotgun category, the fit and finish are starkly different in most cases. Yes, you can spend the coin to have a beautifully finished AR that will do what you asked, but keep in mind, these aren't Beretta shotguns we're talking about. Unlike an AR, nobody's gonna take a rattle can to their silver pigeon.
I don't mean this post as disrespectful either. Just my personal experience, as I was once in your shoes.
Good luck.
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BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 16:40
I want a gun that's built like a battle rifle but has a lightweight barrel on it that preforms like, or as close as possible to, a bench rest gun.
I think this may be a pick two situation.
You're going to have a hard time getting the other two and keeping the overall weight down.
An 18" SS barrel is over a pound heavier than a BFH ELW 16". Not to mention adding a scope, mount, light, bipod etc.
If you need the extra velocity and a match barrel, get the BCM SS410 with a KMR rail which is pretty much as light as you're going to get.
If you don't, get something build around a BCM/Centurion/Noveske mid contour 16" hammer forged barrel.
Or this...
http://www.noveske.com/products/18-rogue-hunter-rifle
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BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 18:40
I don't believe you need a heavy barrel to produce accuracy. Just a quality barrel. Larue guarantees sub moa accuracy on their PredatAR. It's not a heavy gun. There has to be options other than putting a heavy profile barrel on the gun. Correct me if I'm out of line.
I'm not talking about the profile, ss barrels are just heavier by nature. The Noveske linked is a light weight profile ss. I think that rifle is lighter than the larue by almost a pound.
But a Chf like the BCM will be lighter still.
I guess it just depends on what you mean by "light."
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BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 18:54
Anything around or under 7 lbs would be fine by me. I just don't want some 9+ lb bull barrel tank. I'm also fine with a 16 inch barrel.
I think you'll be fine with any BCM / Noveske / Larue whatever 16-18"
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BigGameBalls
01-12-16, 19:02
Seems pretty easy to find a deal on a DD rifle on gunbroker.com. I also liked the few I handled at cabelas. What's the opinion on them?
Take a look at the Daniel Defense Mk 12. 18" middle weight melonited stanless barrel. Some say that finish will hold up as well as chromed. Will shoot 3/4 or less with good ammo. Upper and lower are tight because it's all made by DD. Add a Gisesele trigger and it will shoot little groups, will not hiccup. They make great rifles and the Mk 12 might be just what you need.
Seems pretty easy to find a deal on a DD rifle on gunbroker.com. I also liked the few I handled at cabelas. What's the opinion on them?
No matter how much you liked the DD at Cabela's, don't buy it there! Their prices on both sporting rifles and semi-auto pistols are insane. It's a good place to go to get a feel for a rifle and compare to others, that's about all. They can be found much cheaper.
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BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 00:06
No matter how much you liked the DD at Cabela's, don't buy it there! Their prices on both sporting rifles and semi-auto pistols are insane. It's a good place to go to get a feel for a rifle and compare to others, that's about all. They can be found much cheaper.
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I agree. I like gunbroker.com myself. I just go there so I can check stuff out. One of the main reasons I'm on this forum is because I don't have an opportunity to handle most of these options myself. Unless I buy a DD I could very well end up buying a rifle having never even seen one.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 00:09
Who makes a marksman type rifle with a 16 inch barrel and fairly light weight. Don't think I want a longer more cumbersome 18". I've never been a big believer that longer barrels equate to more accuracy. I don't think I need the extra velocity. When i say I'll use it for longer range target shooting I'm probably only talking 200-300 yards. Probably not what most here consider long range.
Who makes a marksman type rifle with a 16 inch barrel and fairly light weight. Don't think I want a longer more cumbersome 18". I've never been a big believer that longer barrels equate to more accuracy. I don't think I need the extra velocity. When i say I'll use it for longer range target shooting I'm probably only talking 200-300 yards. Probably not what most here consider long range.
I'd be looking at something like a BCM RECCE Precision (http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=752-790), or Noveske Hunter (http://www.noveske.com/collections/rifles/products/noveske-rogue-hunter-rifle).
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 00:26
Those look like good options as I think others have mentioned them too. Any other manufactures I should be looking at?
Don't over think it. Any decent AR with a barrel length from 16 to 20 inches will make a perfectly fine coyote rifle. Since I'm lazy and don't want to carry a rifle heavier than I have to, I suggest a lightweight barrel. You can run it with standard handguards or with a free float tube. Since you'll be out in the weather with it, avoid metal handguards & rails.
More important than barrel length is the optic, but even that's not complicated. A good 2.5-10x variable, give or take, will work fine. If you get an AR with a fixed front sight, shave it down. Or get a low profile gas block. Some will tell you the fixed front sight won't make a difference, that it will "ghost out" when looking through your scope, but I still find it's presence frustrating.
Go pick a decent AR, mount a good optic (such as a Leupold) get some ammo and magazines and go shoot
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Build/Precision001_zpsb21347c6.jpg
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 09:53
Don't over think it. Any decent AR with a barrel length from 16 to 20 inches will make a perfectly fine coyote rifle. Since I'm lazy and don't want to carry a rifle heavier than I have to, I suggest a lightweight barrel. You can run it with standard handguards or with a free float tube. Since you'll be out in the weather with it, avoid metal handguards & rails.
More important than barrel length is the optic, but even that's not complicated. A good 2.5-10x variable, give or take, will work fine. If you get an AR with a fixed front sight, shave it down. Or get a low profile gas block. Some will tell you the fixed front sight won't make a difference, that it will "ghost out" when looking through your scope, but I still find it's presence frustrating.
Go pick a decent AR, mount a good optic (such as a Leupold) get some ammo and magazines and go shoot
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Build/Precision001_zpsb21347c6.jpg
You're right I am probably overthinking this. I over think every equipment purchase I make because I want the best of the best without being an idiot who pays for a product that's way over priced because of name. I intend to put a Leupold VX6 or Swarovski on the top of it. I just know if I dump 3K into a decked out rifle and it's not an impressive performing gun I'll be extremely disappointed. I'd rather gather as much info as I can now so I know I made the best purchase.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 10:00
One question I do have about BCM is how is their stock? Is there a lot of slop in it like a magpul or is it nice and tight like a DD stock?
Don't write off magpul just yet. What you played with was probably an MOE. If you get a CTR or SL stock, it will be tight.
BCM on my BCM and vltor tubes is semi tight but not right like my CTR or SL.
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crusader377
01-13-16, 10:23
One question I do have about BCM is how is their stock? Is there a lot of slop in it like a magpul or is it nice and tight like a DD stock?
Stock wobble or slop is much more a function of the stock manufacturer over the rifle manufacturer.
When shooting, you won't notice the stock wobble at all. Sometimes I'll forget to use the lock on the CTR after adjusting it and never notice it being loose.
The heart of an AR is the barrel & bolt. Get a quality stainless steel barrel and a matched bolt, use good ammo and you'll have a good shooter. You don't need a stainless steel barrel to get good precision, but due to how SS wears, its precision stays more consistent through the life of the barrel
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 10:46
Stock wobble or slop is much more a function of the stock manufacturer over the rifle manufacturer.
This make sense but I guess I don't want to buy a gun and feel like I need to switch things like the stock out right away. I'd rather have a gun that I'm happy with everything right out of the box.
crusader377
01-13-16, 11:04
This make sense but I guess I don't want to buy a gun and feel like I need to switch things like the stock out right away. I'd rather have a gun that I'm happy with everything right out of the box.
Even though I think BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense, Noveske, and LMT all produce excellent rifles with very similar quality levels perhaps you should buy the Daniel Defense since you have had a chance to get some hands on time with one.
I think either the MK 12 or a V9 or V11 with the 18" s2w barrel will give you the accuracy you are looking for.
https://danieldefense.com/daniel-defense-mk12.html
https://danieldefense.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v9-s2w.html
or if you want to save weight and trade a little accuracy a DD V5 or V11 with a standard 16" barrel will work.
On the subject of stocks, I've got both the DD stock and the BCM GF stock. Both are solid with very, very little play. I prefer the BCM stock. I love Daniel Defense but I find the pad is uncomfortable. It's got ridges that dig into my shoulders after a while. Just my two cents.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 11:50
On the subject of stocks, I've got both the DD stock and the BCM GF stock. Both are solid with very, very little play. I prefer the BCM stock. I love Daniel Defense but I find the pad is uncomfortable. It's got ridges that dig into my shoulders after a while. Just my two cents.
Thanks this is the kind of info/comparisons I'm looking for.
Now having said that about the stocks, I love my DD rifles. Nothing could get me to part from them. You just might have to swap out the stocks if you find them uncomfortable.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 12:07
Another question. If I go on DD website I see they have the option to "build your own rifle". If I were to go that route do I get a rifle without all the white model markings on it? It's one thing I'm not a huge fan of. Also do the other companies like Noveske, BCM, etc... allow me to order a rifle custom with the stock, trigger, etc... that I want and ship it as a completely built rifle? Being unfamiliar with the AR platform I don't want to have to build my first one but it would be nice to be able to order it the way I wanted it. Stock, hand guard, trigger, etc....
When shooting, you won't notice the stock wobble at all. Sometimes I'll forget to use the lock on the CTR after adjusting it and never notice it being loose.
I will respectfully submit that its an individual thing. I had a carbine for a very short time. First time I shot it at distance (600-800 yards), I had trouble spotting my hits through the scope, not at all what I remembered from shooting the rifles I had in the past. Holding the gun shouldered, and moving the pistol grip up and down, the stock felt like a loosey-goosey underfolder AK stock to me, as the scope moved enough to have trouble seeing through it well, apparently especially when shooting it. I looked at other new guns in a shop, all seemed similar. I traded the carbine off for an A2 rifle very soon afterwards and couldn't be happier about the solid stock. Spotting hits is now more like a 22 than the feel the carbine had. The CTR stock looks good in that regard, but the average carbine stock drives me up the wall. Probably just weirdness on my part, but its very noticeable. At closer ranges it may not be noticeable, but most of my shooting is at 300 yards and out.
Another question. If I go on DD website I see they have the option to "build your own rifle". If I were to go that route do I get a rifle without all the white model markings on it? It's one thing I'm not a huge fan of. Also do the other companies like Noveske, BCM, etc... allow me to order a rifle custom with the stock, trigger, etc... that I want and ship it as a completely built rifle? Being unfamiliar with the AR platform I don't want to have to build my first one but it would be nice to be able to order it the way I wanted it. Stock, hand guard, trigger, etc....
By white model markings are you referring to the "5.56" and DDM4 + model number?
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 13:55
By white model markings are you referring to the "5.56" and DDM4 + model number?
Yes I am.
Briman1001
01-13-16, 13:57
By white model markings are you referring to the "5.56" and DDM4 + model number?
A little black magic marker maybe? The markings on mine have never bothered me but to each his own. Also my V5 has been extremely reliable.
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If you build your own DDM4 I'm pretty sure the markings are NOT there. Since you're building your own and not buying a V5, V11, V1, etc., they wouldn't have the model markings. I think the only markings on the upper would be a small Daniel Defense logo on the left toward the barrel.
Again, I'm pretty sure but not 100%.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 14:12
So what about some of the other manufactures building what I want?
Most will have a default configuration, and you would need to make part swaps on your own, or have your shop/friend do it.
But swapping out a stock or grip is very simple, I wouldn't worry about that as much as the rest of the rifle
Briman1001
01-13-16, 14:20
Get a good brand on sale with the gas length and barrel length you want. You will probably want to switch everything else out over time anyway. Rails, stock, trigger, comp, etc. You won't know what actually want until long after you own your first AR.
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teutonicpolymer
01-13-16, 17:37
I would build but that is me. I would consider buying an upper MAYBE but lowers are so easy to build and building let's you save money often, while also letting you choose exactly what you want.
I would consider buying a complete only for special things like the SR15 or ar10 patterns, or if I found an unbeatable deal.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 19:55
The idea of building is cool to me. Actually doing it scares the crap out of me. I've never even shot an AR let alone know enough about them to build one.
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 22:17
Am I missing something or is it way cheaper if I'm going to go bcm to just buy a complete lower and a complete upper. Looks considerably cheaper than a whole rifle.
Typically it will be cheaper. Even if you don't build the upper and lower, yourself ,it is certainly something to consider. And if it pays for the trigger upgrade, then it's definitely worth it!
BigGameBalls
01-13-16, 23:31
If i get an upper from bcm and add the charging handle does that then include everything I need to pair with a complete lower?
Except for sights or a sight, yes. If you look at their drop down menu, it allows you to add a BCG and charging handle for an additional price.
If i get an upper from bcm and add the charging handle does that then include everything I need to pair with a complete lower?
If i get an upper from bcm and add the charging handle does that then include everything I need to pair with a complete lower?
You might need to add a bolt carrier group too.
BigGameBalls
01-14-16, 19:45
Okay so after a little more research on my own I think k I am going to go bcm upper and buy the lower separate. That looks like the best bang for the buck. Couple questions
How is the accuracy on bcm hammer forged barrels vs the 410 stainless. I do really like that they offer 410 stainless with the black ion bond finish.
Handguard? Is bcm alpha my best bet or are one of the other options that they offer better quality?
Am I best off going with their bolt carrier group or can I pick up some performance with a differnt companies bcg?
Lower? Stick with bcm lower or is there better options? I think I'd prefer more of a competition trigger for hunting/target but I guess I don't really know. One think i would want is a finish that matches very well (I know. Probably not the type comment that goes over well around here)
Thanks in advance for any advice.
I would definitely stick with their bcg, and I would also probably use their lower b/c I like things to match. And in this case, it's hard to assemble a lower with quality parts for less than what you get a BCM lower.
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BigGameBalls
01-14-16, 20:09
And what about the bfh vs 410ss
I would definitely stick with their bcg, and I would also probably use their lower b/c I like things to match. And in this case, it's hard to assemble a lower with quality parts for less than what you get a BCM lower.
This.
And what about the bfh vs 410ss
All about needs. Longevity or precision? If you want to get the most accuracy, stainless is the way to go, as it wears differently than chrome-lined. If you realistically see yourself throwing 10k plus through the rifle, either the standard or BFH upper will do... and I'll leave you to dive down the button rifled vs. CHF rabbit hole, but there's volumes of discussion here on M4C. Same for why stainless is good for some applications. There's actually a great post that shows up first if you search about stainless barrels.
Matching or not is up to you. You can get a Sionics complete (less stock) for under $250 from Sgcusa.com, and then add the stock and grip of your choosing, using the trigger in it for a while, or upgrading to a Geissele and sell the one in it for a few bucks.
Otherwise, a BCM lower with a trigger upgrade and stock will run you about $550 from Grant. The factory trigger in the BCM should be comparable to the Sionics, as a reference.
The SS will be more accurate, on average. If you are ok with the weight, and want the bit of accuracy, it's a great option.
^^^also if you're going to pay to regularly feed it match quality ammo.
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BigGameBalls
01-14-16, 20:33
The real use of this gun will be coyote hunting and some 200-300 yard target plinking. No way will I ever approach 10,000 rounds. 1000 would be a stretch. I won't keep an inaccurate rifle. Anything over 1.5 inches at 100 yards will be out the door as fast as it came in BUT if you're telling me bfh will shoot 1.25" groups at 100 and the 410ss will shoot 1" then I think I'd rather have the lighter weight of a lw enhanced bfh.
The real use of this gun will be coyote hunting and some 200-300 yard target plinking. No way will I ever approach 10,000 rounds. 1000 would be a stretch. I won't keep an inaccurate rifle. Anything over 1.5 inches at 100 yards will be out the door as fast as it came in BUT if you're telling me bfh will shoot 1.25" groups at 100 and the 410ss will shoot 1" then I think I'd rather have the lighter weight of a lw enhanced bfh.
I can't give you personal experience on the ELW profiles, but Molon's eval. of the 14.5" BFH here (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?167387-Accuracy-Evaluation-of-a-Bravo-Company-14-5%94-Barrel) showed it to be a sub-2" barrel. BCM says their ELW profile is more conducive to accuracy, so you probably could find a realistic 1.5" or better load for it. But, like I said, I don't have hands on with one, I just thought it was worth throwing Molon's thread out.
BigGameBalls
01-14-16, 20:42
So what can I expect from stainless?
BigGameBalls
01-14-16, 21:43
Okay I used the search function and it looks like I can expect .75 - 1 moa type accuracy from the stainless barrel. Going with that with the ion bond finish.
BigGameBalls
01-15-16, 12:59
Okay I used the search function and it looks like I can expect .75 - 1 moa type accuracy from the stainless barrel. Going with that with the ion bond finish.
So I'm settled on either one of these......
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-IB-p/bcm-urg-ss410-16mid-kmr13-ib.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-w-B-p/bcm-urg-mid16-ss410-kmr-a-13ib.htm
Obviously the regular KMR is out of stock. Any idea how long until they come back in stock? Is the regular KMR worth the wait and extra $? My thought was with the little heavier barrel that the extra weight savings might be worth the wait and $ to help offset some of the weight.
I personally, would not spend the extra money on the reg KMR. You, gain an ounce or 2, but the finish is stronger on the alpha and you save some money.
BigGameBalls
01-15-16, 13:10
I personally, would not spend the extra money on the reg KMR. You, gain an ounce or 2, but the finish is stronger on the alpha and you save some money.
Good to know about the finish. Never even thought that they might be different.
I personally prefer the standard KMR over the Alpha. They're purposefully lightweight handguards, so I want the lightest one. But if the Alpha is in stock, might as well grab it.
If you think you'd rather save a few ounces later on, it's not as though you couldn't buy a standard and sell your Alpha, or even post yours up for trade for a standard here. KMR's are easy to swap, and a lot of people like the Alpha better anyway.
TheNegativeOne
01-15-16, 14:10
Just buy a Bushmaster. Buy quality.
BigGameBalls
01-15-16, 14:12
How long are they generally out of stock? I have to wait for my purchase permit to get renewed for the lower anyway so I don't have to have it now.
TheNegativeOne
01-15-16, 14:15
Bushmaster is as good or better than BCM and in stock.
BigGameBalls
01-15-16, 14:21
Bushmaster is as good or better than BCM and in stock.
I don't want a bushmaster.
Bushmaster is as good or better than BCM and in stock.
Please refrain from posting poor advice
turnburglar
01-15-16, 15:37
The real use of this gun will be coyote hunting and some 200-300 yard target plinking. No way will I ever approach 10,000 rounds. 1000 would be a stretch. I won't keep an inaccurate rifle. Anything over 1.5 inches at 100 yards will be out the door as fast as it came in BUT if you're telling me bfh will shoot 1.25" groups at 100 and the 410ss will shoot 1" then I think I'd rather have the lighter weight of a lw enhanced bfh.
I already knew the thread would get to this at the first page. Splitting inches over the internet is a horrible way to determine physics in the real world. No one can guarantee anything, especially not down to .25's of an inch when shooter, ammo, barrel, humidity, temperature, altitude, and MET-TC are all variables.
Im surprised that you haven't looked into a Colt SOCOM barrel, as those have repeatedly done outstanding in Molon's test, which besides doing your own testing, is probably the best comparable way to subjectively look at a barrel.
Im surprised that you haven't looked into a Colt SOCOM barrel, as those have repeatedly done outstanding in Molon's test, which besides doing your own testing, is probably the best comparable way to subjectively look at a barrel.
He doesn't want to build and I doubt he wants to pin.
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TheNegativeOne
01-15-16, 16:20
Please refrain from posting poor advice
I just couldnt help myself. It was meant to be funny.
BigGameBalls
01-15-16, 16:47
I already knew the thread would get to this at the first page. Splitting inches over the internet is a horrible way to determine physics in the real world. No one can guarantee anything, especially not down to .25's of an inch when shooter, ammo, barrel, humidity, temperature, altitude, and MET-TC are all variables.
Im surprised that you haven't looked into a Colt SOCOM barrel, as those have repeatedly done outstanding in Molon's test, which besides doing your own testing, is probably the best comparable way to subjectively look at a barrel.
Seems from the research I've done the ss barrels are more like .75ish moa shooters and the bfh is 1.5ish moa. That's a big enough spread to justify the stainless in my mind. I was just saying it it was going to be a tiny improvement it wouldn't be worth it. I really want this gun to be the most accurate I own.
Bushmaster is as good or better than BCM and in stock.
Sorry to hear you believe that but that is a very inaccurate and incorrect statement.
Not going to get into specifics because it's been gone over at least 1,000 times. Bushmaster is not in the same league as BCM.
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using Tapatalk
BigGameBalls
01-25-16, 16:45
So I ended up buying a 16" 410ss ion bond black with 13" KMR alpha. I also ordered a standard BCM complete lower with the new BCM trigger. Super pumped.
Nice. Let us know how it works for you.
BigGameBalls
01-25-16, 17:22
I'm thinking the only thing I may eventually upgrade is the trigger and I'll probably get some flip up sights to shoot it without a scope. I intend to put a leupold VX R 4-12 on it with the fire dot 4 recital. Can someone recommend a good lightweight QD scope mount as well as a good inexpensive set of backup sights?
snowdog650
01-25-16, 19:47
One question I do have about BCM is how is their stock? Is there a lot of slop in it like a magpul or is it nice and tight like a DD stock?
My Magpul STRs have zero slop whatsoever.
I'm thinking the only thing I may eventually upgrade is the trigger and I'll probably get some flip up sights to shoot it without a scope. I intend to put a leupold VX R 4-12 on it with the fire dot 4 recital. Can someone recommend a good lightweight QD scope mount as well as a good inexpensive set of backup sights?
Take a look at LaRue Tactical.
The Aero Precison scope mount is about the best value out there. Go to there site & check it out. I've got one one my 308 and it works great
Slvr Surfr
01-29-16, 21:01
I think you will be happy with your SS choice. I found that my 18" BCM 410 SS upper loves Hornady's 60gr tap ammo that they no longer make. IIRC, I was getting sub MOA accuracy with that particular load shooting 5 round groups. I have used it for coyote hunting and honestly have to say that I ended up putting it back in the safe. The rifle was a bear to tote around. It wore a Nikon 2-8 scope, Harris bi-pod, and fixed EFX1 stock.
I ended up purchasing a Mossberg MVP 16" bolt gun. Very light and uses all AR platform magazines. Much easier to carry, lighter, but no where near as fast shooting as an semi-auto. If you plan on hunting at night with red light, I'd definitely recommend a scope with at least a 40-50mm objective lens to gather as much light as possible.
Patriot1776
01-30-16, 09:00
Sounds like all quality Ar's I recently sold my colt 6920 and picked up a Daniel Defense M4A1 and I'm super pleased with it.
This make sense but I guess I don't want to buy a gun and feel like I need to switch things like the stock out right away. I'd rather have a gun that I'm happy with everything right out of the box.
What you are looking for there may be impossible. Most people switch out the stock right away to something of their liking. It's a good possibility, no matter what you buy, that you will feel the need to change the stock and get one you are more comfortable with. If you are worried about a small amount of stock wobble and want something that isn't going to move at all, why not try a fixed stock? That way you can be sure there will be no play between the stock and buffer tube. There are several good options out there in the fixed stock category, check them out.
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