2 US NAVY BOATS HELD BY IRAN

[platoonDaddy]

Friggin Iran and of course our POS won't do anything!


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Pentagon says it briefly lost contact with two small Navy craft in the Persian Gulf on Tuesday but has received assurances from Iran that the crew and vessels will be returned safely and promptly.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_IRAN_US_NAVY_BOATS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-12-16-04-56

Edit: thinking about lost contact, with today's comm gear, how in the frig do you lose contact.

[devildogljb]

Heard there is a total of 10 crew being held



Friggin Iran and of course our POS won't do anything!


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Pentagon says it briefly lost contact with two small Navy craft in the Persian Gulf on Tuesday but has received assurances from Iran that the crew and vessels will be returned safely and promptly.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_IRAN_US_NAVY_BOATS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-01-12-16-04-56

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Sounds like we are going to get them back in a few hours. Can you imagine what Kerry had to give up to get them back before Barry's Masterbation speech tonight? He'll tout this as a sign that relations are better with Iran. As if getting sailors back with a broken engine is a sign that of awesome state of relations.

[devildogljb]

Im hoping so but we shall see. Would love to hear the reason they were taken to begin with.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Mechanical problem and the drifted into Iranian territorial waters. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

[elephant]

Go ahead, play all the games you want with Obama and Kerry, but don't be surprised to find that you don't win a prize playing the same game with the next guy. The next guy might be a better score keeper.

[T2C]

I'll buy into one boat having mechanical problems, but two? It doesn't smell right.

[devildogljb]

Id have to agree. What ever the true reason I'm sure it will be swept under the rug.



I'll buy into one boat having mechanical problems, but two? It doesn't smell right.

[tb-av]

I'll buy into one boat having mechanical problems, but two? It doesn't smell right.

No kidding,,, one craft disabled I can believe. Another craft going to rescue and then both getting captured I can believe. Two failing adrift and being rescued/held.... that seems like a stretch.

[Averageman]

I hope they get everyone back safe and sound.
I can imagine the sphincter grip going on as Barry was getting his nails and hair done for tonights festivities.

[Honu]

the second they touched our ships all hell should have rained down on them !!!!!

[JS-Maine]

Even Iran knows they have a good deal going with the social organizer. They wouldn't jeopardize going nuke-capable over this, especially with the building tensions with Saudi Arabia.

[ColtSeavers]

I know we'll never be privy to it, but I would love to read the debrief of this, like what the Iranians actually did.
How close was the nearest USNavy vessel? All sorts of questions I'd like the answers to

[platoonDaddy]

the second they touched our ships all hell should have rained down on them !!!!!

AMEN!

How frig sad, that there hasn't been any military action (at least that we know of). As long as the POS is in office, they will take every advantage to demonstrate to the middle east, that the great satan is helpless.

[Eurodriver]

I know we'll never be privy to it, but I would love to read the debrief of this, like what the Iranians actually did.
How close was the nearest USNavy vessel? All sorts of questions I'd like the answers to

This.

I'm probably the least Iran-a-phobe on this forum but I know about the hostage crisis and ROEs be damned I would never ever ever let Iranians pick my ass up. Id throw all the Comm equipment overboard and fire the 50s after appropriate warning was given.

****kkkkk that.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I went throught the strait of hormuz in 2011 and 2012. Iran did everything they could to provoke us into a fight. Their little boats were zooming everywhere and it was a surreal experience for us. Their little boats could do some damage, but not enough to make it count. God be with these sailors, and may God punish Iran, because we certainly will not.

[devildogljb]

Supposedly every one is to be returned Wednesday morning. Find it very odd they were not returned immediately,if not a couple hours after. Seems like this is being down played big time.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Supposedly every one is to be returned Wednesday morning. Find it very odd they were not returned immediately,if not a couple hours after. Seems like this is being down played big time.

This.

And I don't buy the story that two boats had mechanical issues close enough to Iranian waters but far enough away from help that they got snatched. Makes zero since. I am thinking there are not a lot of 5 man Naval boats just cruising around out of range of a larger vessel all that often in that part of the world, and I don't think both of them broke down at the same time.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

This.

And I don't buy the story that two boats had mechanical issues close enough to Iranian waters but far enough away from help that they got snatched. Makes zero since. I am thinking there are not a lot of 5 man Naval boats just cruising around out of range of a larger vessel all that often in that part of the world, and I don't think both of them broke down at the same time.

I went from Bahrain to Kuwait as the only Marine with 6 other sailors on a VERY small craft (I was sea sick the entire time) with our only crew served weapons being two M2's and 2 240's. I imagine it doesn't happen often, but it did to me....

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC02032_zpsirpif0j6.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC02032_zpsirpif0j6.jpg.html)

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/DSC02031_zpsggm3z3qx.jpg (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/glockfire/media/DSC02031_zpsggm3z3qx.jpg.html)

[Whiskey_Bravo]

ok I guess it happens although rarely, but are we believing they both broke down at the same time?

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

ok I guess it happens although rarely, but are we believing they both broke down at the same time?

If my buddies boat broke down, I'm probably gonna stay with him. That's my theory.

[devildogljb]

Your suppose to believe what ever they tell you. Its dangerous to have your own opinion or think for yourself :nono:




ok I guess it happens although rarely, but are we believing they both broke down at the same time?

[Whiskey_Bravo]

If my buddies boat broke down, I'm probably gonna stay with him. That's my theory.


That makes sense and I hadn't thought of it like that. Although if that was the case I would have thoughts of towing or abandoning the disabled one(after moving everyone over obviously) if I was drifting into Iranian waters. Seems losing a small craft would be better than 10 guys being used as political pawns. But who knows what really happened and more than likely we never will.

[SteyrAUG]

I'll buy into one boat having mechanical problems, but two? It doesn't smell right.

I have a feeling it was more of the second boat not being willing to abandon the first one.

And Iran will take the opportunity to demonstrate Iranian diplomacy. They recently burned down the Saudi embassy because they didn't agree with a Saudi execution. They see us as a Saudi ally (which is painfully ironic) so expect them to screw with us as much as possible.

They will probably eventually release the crews, don't expect to get those boats back.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

According to SOFREP they two boats were riverine patrol craft.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

They will probably eventually release the crews, don't expect to get those boats back.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but with the small size of the riverine(if that's what it was) it seems like it would have been preferable and easier to take anything sensitive out of the boat with issues and move the 5 from that one to the healthy boat and high tail it to non Iranian water area.

[SteyrAUG]

I know hindsight is 20/20 but with the small size of the riverine(if that's what it was) it seems like it would have been preferable and easier to take anything sensitive out of the boat with issues and move the 5 from that one to the healthy boat and high tail it to non Iranian water area.

That sounds like the logical thing to do, but god knows what kind of stupid directives they were operating under at the time. My guess is some kind of "Don't do anything that might make the Iranians angry, upset or frightened" ROE that made everyone second guess every single thing until it was too late.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Gee I wonder what would have happened if the new gender regs were in place and one of those craft was manned by five females?

[Koshinn]

Gee I wonder what would have happened if the new gender regs were in place and one of those craft was manned by five females?

There was one female iirc

[Averageman]

One boat cannot tow another one out of the area?
If there is any technology they don't have, it is half way to China by now.

[Eurodriver]

I went from Bahrain to Kuwait as the only Marine with 6 other sailors on a VERY small craft (I was sea sick the entire time) with our only crew served weapons being two M2's and 2 240's. I imagine it doesn't happen often, but it did to me....
[/URL]

Hahaha! That is crazy man!

Did those M2s have ammo in the cans were you running Pearl Harbor style? (locked away or not even on board)

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

CNN says we got the boats and the sailors back. I assumed it was a broken propulsion, but it was a navigation equipement error. Which isn't that they way of saying "We knew we shouldn't have been there, but we were trying to drop-off/pick-up the SEALs"?

[Averageman]

CNN says we got the boats and the sailors back. I assumed it was a broken propulsion, but it was a navigation equipement error. Which isn't that they way of saying "We knew we shouldn't have been there, but we were trying to drop-off/pick-up the SEALs"?

Fox was saying Iran has the boats.
Navigation equipment error??? WTF, that's some nutty stuff right there.

[platoonDaddy]

This all is very strange, glad they are back safely!

On another note, on the Fox home page, they have a picture of the sailors & was surprised to see three different colors of socks, what had happen to the uniform service?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

This all is very strange, glad they are back safely!

On another note, on the Fox home page, they have a picture of the sailors & was surprised to see three different colors of socks, what had happen to the uniform service?

It's a code... SHHHHHH.

[ColtSeavers]

Glad they're back and safe now.

[platoonDaddy]

Friggin bult-Neck said diplomacy worked and thanked them for returning the soldiers. What another POS.


http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/BoltNeck_zpsp628pdba.jpg (http://s933.photobucket.com/user/slickville/media/BoltNeck_zpsp628pdba.jpg.html)

[Averageman]

Not a thing to worry about the POTUS put Biden in charge of finding a cure for Cancer last night, how hard could it be to get ten Sailors and two Boats back in comparison.

[Sam]

Here is what Matt Bracken, retired SEAL, wrote on his facebook page, I do not know how to link his post, but here is a copy/paste:

I rarely pull out my dusty old trident, but in this case, here goes. I was a Navy SEAL officer in the 1980s, and this kind of operation (transiting small boats in foreign waters) was our bread and butter. Today, these boats both not only had radar, but multiple GPS devices, including chart plotters that place your boat's icon right on the chart. The claim by Iran that the USN boats "strayed into Iranian waters" is complete bull$‪#‎it‬.
For an open-water transit between nations, the course is studied and planned in advance by the leaders of the Riverine Squadron, with specific attention given to staying wide and clear of any hostile nation's claimed territorial waters. The boats are given a complete mechanical check before departure, and they have sufficient fuel to accomplish their mission plus extra. If, for some unexplainable and rare circumstance one boat broke down, the other would tow it, that's why two boats go on these trips and not one! It's called "self-rescue" and it's SOP.
This entire situation is in my area of expertise. I can state with complete confidence that both Iran and our own State Department are lying. The boats did not enter Iranian waters. They were overtaken in international waters by Iranian patrol boats that were so superior in both speed and firepower that it became a "hands up!" situation, with automatic cannons in the 40mm to 76mm range pointed at them point-blank. Surrender, hands up, or be blown out of the water. I assume that the Iranians had an English speaker on a loudspeaker to make the demand. This takedown was no accident or coincidence, it was a planned slap across America's face.
Just watch. The released sailors will be ordered not to say a word about the incident, and the Iranians will have taken every GPS device, chart-plotter etc off the boats, so that we will not be able to prove where our boats were taken.
The "strayed into Iranian waters" story being put out by Iran and our groveling and appeasing State Dept. is utter and complete BS from one end to the other.

[Averageman]

That's pretty telling.

[Pilot1]

That is very believable. I wonder if we will have a retaliation? Nah.....

[tb-av]

Not a thing to worry about the POTUS put Biden in charge of finding a cure for Cancer last night, how hard could it be to get ten Sailors and two Boats back in comparison.

Show some respect... anyone that can single handedly track down and kill OBL can certainly appoint a clown to cure cancer.

===
The news is saying this was a training exercise.

====

That Matt Bracken take on it seems pretty believable. Just to be on a boat, if something goes wrong the first thing you are thinking about is --- I need another boat to tow this one to anywhere safe --- . I can't believe the NAVY would have two boats and knowing one is in trouble they are not hooking it up and heading for the docks. Plus there is no way two boats 'drifted' into hostile waters for any reason. Even with a simple hand-held GPS you wouldn't do that if you had two boats. That's just normal being on a boat survival. All you have to do is be on a broken boat one time to learn that. It's simple instinct.

The slap in the face sounds very plausible to me.

[tb-av]

I wonder if we will have a retaliation?

LOL, ha. that's a good one. Glad I wasn't drinking coffee.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UC6BVj2H2Xs/UpMToohFW2I/AAAAAAABf6M/5pKuzeWBvdc/s1600/Obama's+Iran+mission+accomplished.jpg

[Moose-Knuckle]

Here is what Matt Bracken, retired SEAL, wrote on his facebook page, I do not know how to link his post, but here is a copy/paste:

I rarely pull out my dusty old trident, but in this case, here goes. I was a Navy SEAL officer in the 1980s, and this kind of operation (transiting small boats in foreign waters) was our bread and butter. Today, these boats both not only had radar, but multiple GPS devices, including chart plotters that place your boat's icon right on the chart. The claim by Iran that the USN boats "strayed into Iranian waters" is complete bull$‪#‎it‬.
For an open-water transit between nations, the course is studied and planned in advance by the leaders of the Riverine Squadron, with specific attention given to staying wide and clear of any hostile nation's claimed territorial waters. The boats are given a complete mechanical check before departure, and they have sufficient fuel to accomplish their mission plus extra. If, for some unexplainable and rare circumstance one boat broke down, the other would tow it, that's why two boats go on these trips and not one! It's called "self-rescue" and it's SOP.
This entire situation is in my area of expertise. I can state with complete confidence that both Iran and our own State Department are lying. The boats did not enter Iranian waters. They were overtaken in international waters by Iranian patrol boats that were so superior in both speed and firepower that it became a "hands up!" situation, with automatic cannons in the 40mm to 76mm range pointed at them point-blank. Surrender, hands up, or be blown out of the water. I assume that the Iranians had an English speaker on a loudspeaker to make the demand. This takedown was no accident or coincidence, it was a planned slap across America's face.
Just watch. The released sailors will be ordered not to say a word about the incident, and the Iranians will have taken every GPS device, chart-plotter etc off the boats, so that we will not be able to prove where our boats were taken.
The "strayed into Iranian waters" story being put out by Iran and our groveling and appeasing State Dept. is utter and complete BS from one end to the other.

Thanks for posting that, I really enjoy reading his books and essays.

[T2C]

Here is what Matt Bracken, retired SEAL, wrote on his facebook page, I do not know how to link his post, but here is a copy/paste:

I rarely pull out my dusty old trident, but in this case, here goes. I was a Navy SEAL officer in the 1980s, and this kind of operation (transiting small boats in foreign waters) was our bread and butter. Today, these boats both not only had radar, but multiple GPS devices, including chart plotters that place your boat's icon right on the chart. The claim by Iran that the USN boats "strayed into Iranian waters" is complete bull$‪#‎it‬.
For an open-water transit between nations, the course is studied and planned in advance by the leaders of the Riverine Squadron, with specific attention given to staying wide and clear of any hostile nation's claimed territorial waters. The boats are given a complete mechanical check before departure, and they have sufficient fuel to accomplish their mission plus extra. If, for some unexplainable and rare circumstance one boat broke down, the other would tow it, that's why two boats go on these trips and not one! It's called "self-rescue" and it's SOP.
This entire situation is in my area of expertise. I can state with complete confidence that both Iran and our own State Department are lying. The boats did not enter Iranian waters. They were overtaken in international waters by Iranian patrol boats that were so superior in both speed and firepower that it became a "hands up!" situation, with automatic cannons in the 40mm to 76mm range pointed at them point-blank. Surrender, hands up, or be blown out of the water. I assume that the Iranians had an English speaker on a loudspeaker to make the demand. This takedown was no accident or coincidence, it was a planned slap across America's face.
Just watch. The released sailors will be ordered not to say a word about the incident, and the Iranians will have taken every GPS device, chart-plotter etc off the boats, so that we will not be able to prove where our boats were taken.
The "strayed into Iranian waters" story being put out by Iran and our groveling and appeasing State Dept. is utter and complete BS from one end to the other.

This assessment fits the situation. We need stronger leadership in the White House.

[Averageman]

This assessment fits the situation. We need stronger leadership in the White House.

Right now it's like a clown car, how many fools can you fit in there?

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I was thinking something more Tom Clancy with the Iranians spoofing the NAV systems, but an outright snatch and grab, especially if the boats were skirting the border to tweak the Iranians. My thought goes back to what concessions did Iran get for not making it a bigger incident and spoiling Barry's last SOTU.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/13/iran-released-footage-photos-of-us-sailors-held-overnight/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social


WTF? Propaganda video of our guys apologizing. Could watch the video on my phone since I am in a meeting but read the article.

[Hmac]

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/01/13/iran-released-footage-photos-of-us-sailors-held-overnight/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social


WTF? Propaganda video of our guys apologizing. Could watch the video on my phone since I am in a meeting but read the article.

This whole story just gets stranger and stranger.

I've never been in the military, but I thought the US Military Code of Conduct called for "name, rank, serial number". Period. Public admission of guilt and apology would seem to be outside of what I would expect from any US military unit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/13/iranian-footage-shows-us-sailor-apology-arrest-in-gulf-incident.html?intcmp=hpbt1



“It was a mistake. That was our fault. And we apologize for our mistake,” the sailor said, in a brief state TV clip posted on Twitter by a journalist with Iran’s Tasnim News Agency."

I am embarrassed for our US military and four our country. This is outrageous behavior on all parts.



Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces[3][4][5]

I. I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.
II. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.
III. If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.
IV. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.
V. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause
VI. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation and this particular sailor's behavior is proper? (The would be disappointing).


.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

Not sure what's going on but allowing a propaganda video, especially with only 1 night in custody seems pretty weird.

I am wondering if they were told by US officials to do it as a condition of release? Stinks all around and is a slap in the face, especially considering it all happened right before the SOTU address and odumbo did t even mention it.

[SteyrAUG]

Here is what Matt Bracken, retired SEAL, wrote on his facebook page, I do not know how to link his post, but here is a copy/paste:

I rarely pull out my dusty old trident, but in this case, here goes. I was a Navy SEAL officer in the 1980s, and this kind of operation (transiting small boats in foreign waters) was our bread and butter. Today, these boats both not only had radar, but multiple GPS devices, including chart plotters that place your boat's icon right on the chart. The claim by Iran that the USN boats "strayed into Iranian waters" is complete bull$‪#‎it‬.
For an open-water transit between nations, the course is studied and planned in advance by the leaders of the Riverine Squadron, with specific attention given to staying wide and clear of any hostile nation's claimed territorial waters. The boats are given a complete mechanical check before departure, and they have sufficient fuel to accomplish their mission plus extra. If, for some unexplainable and rare circumstance one boat broke down, the other would tow it, that's why two boats go on these trips and not one! It's called "self-rescue" and it's SOP.
This entire situation is in my area of expertise. I can state with complete confidence that both Iran and our own State Department are lying. The boats did not enter Iranian waters. They were overtaken in international waters by Iranian patrol boats that were so superior in both speed and firepower that it became a "hands up!" situation, with automatic cannons in the 40mm to 76mm range pointed at them point-blank. Surrender, hands up, or be blown out of the water. I assume that the Iranians had an English speaker on a loudspeaker to make the demand. This takedown was no accident or coincidence, it was a planned slap across America's face.
Just watch. The released sailors will be ordered not to say a word about the incident, and the Iranians will have taken every GPS device, chart-plotter etc off the boats, so that we will not be able to prove where our boats were taken.
The "strayed into Iranian waters" story being put out by Iran and our groveling and appeasing State Dept. is utter and complete BS from one end to the other.

Could be. At least it wasn't another Liberty incident.

[platoonDaddy]

Captain America and Bolt Neck, raved about diplomacy working and thanking Iran for cooperation in releasing the soldiers. Frig those assholes.



http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/IRAN_zpsl710pnat.jpg (http://s933.photobucket.com/user/slickville/media/IRAN_zpsl710pnat.jpg.html)

[Eurodriver]

This whole story just gets stranger and stranger.

I've never been in the military, but I thought the US Military Code of Conduct called for "name, rank, serial number". Period. Public admission of guilt and apology would seem to be outside of what I would expect from any US military unit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/13/iranian-footage-shows-us-sailor-apology-arrest-in-gulf-incident.html?intcmp=hpbt1




I am embarrassed for our US military and four our country. This is outrageous behavior on all parts.





Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the situation and this particular sailor's behavior is proper? (The would be disappointing).


.

You're taught much more than name rank and serial number these days. That's the Code of Conduct which has become archaic and almost a "tradition" rather than a rule, even high level battalion briefings understand that when you're in certain situations you need to say other things. The instruction we got was pretty much spot on with what some sailor said.

As far as my training was concerned, if they were already in a position where they felt their lives were in danger and admitting to making mistake would save them - they did everything exactly right.

[Outlander Systems]

Are LA-5s and SU-230s being issued outside of SOCOM these days?

[Hmac]

You're taught much more than name rank and serial number these days. That's the Code of Conduct which has become archaic and almost a "tradition" rather than a rule, even high level battalion briefings understand that when you're in certain situations you need to say other things. The instruction we got was pretty much spot on with what some sailor said.

As far as my training was concerned, if they were already in a position where they felt their lives were in danger and admitting to making mistake would save them - they did everything exactly right.

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. I still feel a little disappointed in the way this is going down, but I'm in no place to judge if the safety of those sailors was at stake.

[T2C]

Are LA-5s and SU-230s being issued outside of SOCOM these days?

There was a picture of a SURC in the local newspaper this morning and the article indicated that was the type of craft RIVRON2 was using at the time of capture.

[FishTaco]

Captain America and Bolt Neck, raved about diplomacy working and thanking Iran for cooperation in releasing the soldiers. Frig those assholes.
]

How do you think we got our men back when China had our spy plane for months and our crew for 11 days in 2001? This isn't a big deal or a reason to rage against the administration. Is common sense and rationality that irritating to some of us?

[lowprone]

Where was the CAP ? This whole thing stinks to high heaven. It ain't over by a long shot.
You see the expressions of the Generals and Admirals during The Chocolate Emperors speech ?

[Outlander Systems]

Roger that. Thanks.

Saw those on deck, and started scratching my noggin.


There was a picture of a SURC in the local newspaper this morning and the article indicated that was the type of craft RIVRON2 was using at the time of capture.

[T2C]

I went from Bahrain to Kuwait as the only Marine with 6 other sailors on a VERY small craft (I was sea sick the entire time) with our only crew served weapons being two M2's and 2 240's. I imagine it doesn't happen often, but it did to me....


Mike boat? Flat bottom craft don't cut through the water too well, they bounce over it. :)

[Irish]

Are LA-5s and SU-230s being issued outside of SOCOM these days?

My guess is they're Navy SWCC guys. I'd think they'd get cooler toys than the average sailor.

[Outlander Systems]

Asked a Ret. Sailor I work with, and he said the same thing.

I'm tardcore when it comes to Naval shit.


My guess is they're Navy SWCC guys. I'd think they'd get cooler toys than the average sailor.

[Irish]

I was a navy guy about 10 years ago or so... One of my buds was SWCC and told me some of the cool
shit they do. Sounds like a fun job.

[seb5]

Who knows, could be SWCC, Riverine, Coastal Warfare. I wonder if we'll ever get the truth. If they were overwhelmed by a superior force then that is a failure in planning, ROE, and supporting units. Nothing surprises me with our current administration.

[Dist. Expert 26]

As far as I know there is always a carrier battle group in that region of the world, which begs the question why there was no air cover provided. An F-18 fly by probably would have encourage the Iranians to f**k off in a hurry.

Either way, Obama once again solidifies his reputation as a coward and a liar. He will, without a doubt, go down in history as the biggest disgrace to ever hold the office.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

You're taught much more than name rank and serial number these days. That's the Code of Conduct which has become archaic and almost a "tradition" rather than a rule, even high level battalion briefings understand that when you're in certain situations you need to say other things. The instruction we got was pretty much spot on with what some sailor said.

As far as my training was concerned, if they were already in a position where they felt their lives were in danger and admitting to making mistake would save them - they did everything exactly right.

We got them back in one day. Hell, we'd probably hold Mexican patrol boats that long.

Interesting in the photos and video I have seen, the only Iranian boat that I saw is a whaler type. Obviously there must have been something more out there to make them stop. Hell, why would you stop if you thought you were in the right? Just firewall it and keep going. If you knew you were in the wrong place, why were you there? I still wonder if something went wrong and these guys were a diversion for something else that we DEFINITELY didn't want found in their waters.

Or it could just be two lost boats. I love how the press calls them 'Ships' as if they were a fleet or something.

[Moose-Knuckle]

This whole story just gets stranger and stranger.


Not sure what's going on but allowing a propaganda video, especially with only 1 night in custody seems pretty weird.


This whole thing stinks to high heaven. It ain't over by a long shot.
You see the expressions of the Generals and Admirals during The Chocolate Emperors speech ?

It's all in the timing . . .


EU and US poised to lift Iranian sanctions this weekend
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/the-lifting-of-iranian-sanctions-what-happens-next


Iran Sanctions Seen Lifted by Monday Once Nuclear Deal Verified
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-13/iran-sanctions-seen-lifted-by-monday-as-nuclear-deal-implemented


After listening to Kerry THANK the IRANIANS and attributing the return of our Sailors to open communication with them after the nuke talks it's almost as if this whole incident was planned right before the SOTU to prove to the sheep that Iran is our friends.



Iran’s Swift Release of U.S. Sailors Hailed as a Sign of Warmer Relations



Their quick release was hailed by the Obama administration as an unintended benefit of the new diplomatic relationship with Iran established by the nuclear accord negotiated between Tehran and the United States and five other nations in July.


No mechanical problem with either boat:

After first suggesting that a mechanical failure had disabled at least one of the boats, they acknowledged that there was no mechanical problem. Both boats were returned to the United States under their own power, leaving Pentagon officials to untangle the chain of events that led to the episode.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/world/middleeast/iran-navy-crew-release.html?_r=0

[Moose-Knuckle]

Biden: Iran didn't want or get apology for boats incident


Vice President Joe Biden told CBS News that there was "no apology" given.

"When you have a problem with the boat, (do) you apologize the boat had a problem? No," Biden said in an interview with "CBS This Morning" on Wednesday. "And there was no looking for any apology. This was just standard nautical practice."

While there was no official apology issued, Iran state television showed footage showing one U.S. sailor apologizing, calling the incident a "mistake."

And again we here it's good to be friends with them:

He added that situations like the capture of the two U.S. Navy boats were exactly "why it's important to have channels open" with the Middle East power. That sentiment was echoed by Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, who tweeted Wednesday a message about the importance of diplomacy and "respect."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-there-was-no-apology-to-iranians-over-navy-boat/



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpV2JOF-9Wk

[ClearedHot]

Are LA-5s and SU-230s being issued outside of SOCOM these days?

Apparently some of the Navy's non-NSW units get the SOPMOD stuff as well.
RIVRON 2:
http://36.media.tumblr.com/79a0a38bdcb486535e8bac1cb9da3daa/tumblr_n98iapJDCg1skaxu8o1_1280.jpg

[Outlander Systems]

Another take/analysis:

http://weaponsman.com/?p=28693#more-28693

On a side note, I'm starting to think Iran = The New Saudi Arabia.

[Eurodriver]

If I am ever made President I will make it illegal to mount a TA31 beyond the 3rd t slot of an M4 upper receiver.

Punishable by a nut tap.

[Outlander Systems]

Pecker pops for 2nd offenders.


If I am ever made President I will make it illegal to mount a TA31 beyond the 3rd t slot of an M4 upper receiver.

Punishable by a nut tap.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Apparently some of the Navy's non-NSW units get the SOPMOD stuff as well.
RIVRON 2:
http://36.media.tumblr.com/79a0a38bdcb486535e8bac1cb9da3daa/tumblr_n98iapJDCg1skaxu8o1_1280.jpg

That is a South American or Central American crew. Note their uniforms and the Espanol on the cooler lid.

[tb-av]

the Espanol on the cooler lid.

The cooler lid says Cr???al Auto Rental

They might be down south but that's still good 'ole ingles americano.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The cooler lid says Cr???al Auto Rental

They might be down south but that's still good 'ole ingles americano.

Okay, the lid is in English . . . I expanded the photo and could see it better.

[T2C]

The cooler lid says Cr???al Auto Rental

They might be down south but that's still good 'ole ingles americano.

Cristobal Auto Rental maybe? Panama?

Safariland headset on man holding carbine. It looks like the craft they are in is being towed.

[Grizzly16]

Cristobal Auto Rental maybe? Panama?

Safariland headset on man holding carbine. It looks like the craft they are in is being towed.

Don't forget the laser mounted on a drop in handguard.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I maintain that the pic is not USN personnel. Google image search USN SWCC, there is a huge difference.

[T2C]

I maintain that the pic is not USN personnel. Google image search USN SWCC, there is a huge difference.

I am leaning toward Panamanian Public Forces (PPF), but that's a S.W.A.G.

[platoonDaddy]

Biden: Iran didn't want or get apology for boats incident

And again we here it's good to be friends with them:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/joe-biden-there-was-no-apology-to-iranians-over-navy-boat/

Both boltNeck & Captain America, both lied! If our guys didn't alert the mothership or use their weapons, then this was a mission to turn over the boats to Iran.

I pray they don't come back to the states as heroes and meeting the POS on the WH lawn.


This doesn't pass the smell test!

[WillBrink]

Cristobal Auto Rental maybe? Panama?

Safariland headset on man holding carbine. It looks like the craft they are in is being towed.

That would be my guess too.

[WillBrink]

Both boltNeck & Captain America, both lied! If our guys didn't alert the mothership or use their weapons, then this was a mission to turn over the boats to Iran.

I pray they don't come back to the states as heroes and meeting the POS on the WH lawn.


This doesn't pass the smell test!

Not sure about that, but something sure does not smell right. They're claiming ‘navigation error’ – not mechanical problems now. Not one, but two? I'm no expert on USN Riverine boats, but do they not have fairly advanced navigational tech on those boats? Both lost communication with their ships? One boat, maybe. Two? No. Something does not add up here. Perhaps it was some US recon into Iranian waters that went bad and claiming the were lost their best option. My WAG is it was some op that went south on them. I see some poor SOF guys swimming miles out to sea to get picked up because their ride got busted or they went to ground.

[Leaveammoforme]

"Operation Greatest Distraction Ever" seems to be going just fine.

[Irish]

https://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/12510265_1091543007531805_1101459208625203363_n.jpg

[tb-av]

I am leaning toward Panamanian Public Forces (PPF), but that's a S.W.A.G.

Lean a little further north-west.

Belize.


U.S. Navy Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael Galla trains with the Belize Special Boat Unit during Southern Partnership Station 2014 on the Moho River, Belize, July 8, 2014.

Southern Partnership is a U.S. Navy deployment, sponsored by U.S. Southern Command, focusing on exchanging expertise with partner nation militaries and security forces.

Galla is a gunner’s mate assigned to Coastal Riverine Squadron 2.







From 4GWAR wordpress blog.

eta:
Pretty sure the cooler belongs to these guys...
https://crystal-belize.com/

[FlyingHunter]

Why hasn't anyone blamed the capture of our navy personnel on this guy?

Nakoula Basseley Nakoula

[ClearedHot]

That is a South American or Central American crew. Note their uniforms and the Espanol on the cooler lid.

Negative. They're USN personnel. They wearing FROG suits in AOR2. Like these guys:
http://i.imgur.com/akCbqr0.jpg

[ClearedHot]

Don't forget the laser mounted on a drop in handguard.

You mean the LA-5 on the RAS?

[tb-av]

Negative. They're USN personnel. They wearing FROG suits in AOR2. Like these guys:


The guy in the middle is the local being trained by our guys. Belize

[T2C]

Lean a little further north-west.

Belize.



From 4GWAR wordpress blog.

eta:
Pretty sure the cooler belongs to these guys...
https://crystal-belize.com/


Roger that. I still think of the area as the British Honduras.

[Grizzly16]

You mean the LA-5 on the RAS?

Good call I assumed it was a drop in, I didn't think about the RAS.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Never mind, too much of a thread drift as is . . .

[Honu]

what difference does this make !!!
IT WAS OVER A VIDEO !!!!!
there was no stand down order given !



sadly I cant see two boats going down the ribs I worked on had 2 or 3 engines so even if one dies its not a huge deal ?
not sure if these were RIBs ? but most smaller craft has dual or triples these days !

for sure they did not just wander into enemy waters and did not both break down to the point they could not move

sadly I can see someone high up telling them not to engage etc..

sick of this lack of leadership !!!

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Not sure about that, but something sure does not smell right. They're claiming ‘navigation error’ – not mechanical problems now. Not one, but two? I'm no expert on USN Riverine boats, but do they not have fairly advanced navigational tech on those boats? Both lost communication with their ships? One boat, maybe. Two? No. Something does not add up here. Perhaps it was some US recon into Iranian waters that went bad and claiming the were lost their best option. My WAG is it was some op that went south on them. I see some poor SOF guys swimming miles out to sea to get picked up because their ride got busted or they went to ground.

This sort of explanation is the only plausible explanation I could come up with. That or the crews are complete morons.

[platoonDaddy]

Not sure about that, but something sure does not smell right. They're claiming ‘navigation error’ – not mechanical problems now. Not one, but two? I'm no expert on USN Riverine boats, but do they not have fairly advanced navigational tech on those boats? Both lost communication with their ships? One boat, maybe. Two? No. Something does not add up here. Perhaps it was some US recon into Iranian waters that went bad and claiming the were lost their best option. My WAG is it was some op that went south on them. I see some poor SOF guys swimming miles out to sea to get picked up because their ride got busted or they went to ground.

I was being factitious about giving them the boat, in reality that is what they did. No reported shots fired, no reported contact to the group, someone should be walking the plank.

Interesting read from Allen West: http://www.allenbwest.com/2016/01/folks-heres-what-i-find-very-odd-about-what-happened-with-iran-and-our-navy-yesterday/

That brings me to this current incident with the Iranians. First of all, I find it odd that these Riverine craft were operating on an excursion from Kuwait to Bahrain. Why were they not hugging close to the coast line? Now, I also find it perplexing to be told that the engines of the boats malfunctioned. If that were the case, an immediate call should have been made and at least, aerial surveillance and support should have been dispatched. The next thing would have been immediate dispatching of a recovery vessel to support these two boats. Regardless of one or two boat engines malfunctioning, what should have happened after a distress call was all hands manning the boat weapons. They should have been in an immediate defensive posture to secure themselves until recovery was complete — or they were back underway.

I find it rather disturbing that any Iranian watercraft were able to approach these two heavily armored assault boats. My question would be, was the on-board radar equipment operable? If so, then the approaching enemy craft would have been detected. That being the case, the officer in charge should have reported contact, verified that they were not friendly, and taken action to defend his position, his boats. That means warning shots should have been fired, if not heeded, and then the full power of these assault boats levied against the enemy watercraft — with situation reports being sent to higher command. We need to know why exactly those actions were not taken — and if the young officer in charge was told to not take any action. And if so, by whom.

[7.62NATO]

This photograph violates international law. Article 13 of the Geneva Convention (III), governing the treatment of prisoners of war, requires Iran to protect prisoners against “insults and public curiosity.” This photograph — including a female sailor apparently forced to wear a headscarf – is a quintessential example of “public curiosity” and would be interpreted as insulting throughout the Muslim world. (And if you don’t think Iran is in a state of armed conflict against the United States, tell that to the families of hundreds of American soldiers who’ve lost their lives to Iranians and Iranian-backed terrorists.)

http://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/01/14/world/14ships_web2/14ships_web2-master675.jpg

[tb-av]

sadly I can see someone high up telling them not to engage etc..

sick of this lack of leadership !!!

Depends on whose side the leaders 'identify' with. Sounds like leadership is rolling all 7s for Iran. Almost as though the dice were loaded.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I don't think they are prisoners of war? They are not involved in a conflict, or at least a declared one.

Violate someone's territory with out permission and guns, there are all kinds of national laws that could fall into place.

I don't know what to think about it. In isolation it rather odd. Put it together with the launch of the rocket 1/4 mile from our carrier in transit thru the Straits of Hormuz and it starts to become a trend.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2016/01/09/navy-video-shows-iranian-rockets-launched-near-truman-other-warships/78554342/

[ColtSeavers]

Official explanation?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/14/carter-says-navigation-error-not-mechanical-problem-put-us-boats-in-iranian-waters.html?intcmp=hplnws


The Pentagon has backed off claims that a mechanical failure contributed to U.S. sailors drifting into Iranian waters and touching off a diplomatic incident earlier this week, with Defense Secretary Ash Carter now saying a “navigation error” was to blame.

"The information that they have given us, and through their commanders is that they did stray accidentally into Iranian waters due to a navigation error," Carter said in a television interview with Univision at U.S. Southern Command in Miami.*

[platoonDaddy]

Official explanation?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/14/carter-says-navigation-error-not-mechanical-problem-put-us-boats-in-iranian-waters.html?intcmp=hplnws

In two weeks the state run media will move on and then the lie will be complete.

Local radio just played three audio's:

Lt of the boat crew said mechanical problem

SOD Carter said navigation error

Jennifer Griffin said the following day the boats moved out on their own.


As stated previously, in two weeks the lie will be complete

[Averageman]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/14/speaker-ryan-tries-to-enforce-iran-vote-deadline-and-it-doesnt-go-well.html?intcmp=ob_article_sidebar_video&intcmp=obinsite
Typically, the first vote in a series stretches on for around half an hour. On the Senate side, votes are similarly elastic, with 15-minute votes lasting as long as the majority leader deems necessary.

The legislation, though, is a high-priority item for many lawmakers and came just hours after Iran released 10 U.S. sailors who apparently had drifted into their waters. The incident was resolved diplomatically, but the Iranians’ treatment of the sailors – including videotaping an apparent apology – infuriated some on Capitol Hill.

Lawmakers across the Capitol also have been eager to consider additional sanctions against Iran in the wake of ballistic missile tests, including a December launch near a U.S. aircraft carrier stationed in the Strait of Hormuz. Foreign policy hawks stepped up their criticism of the White House after it reversed a decision to impose new sanctions.

That reversal "certainly didn't go unnoticed in Tehran," Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John McCain told reporters earlier this week.

"It was a direct reaction to the Iranians' threat to scuttle the whole Iranian deal," the Arizona Republican said. "The Iranians know they have us on the ropes. They can do just about anything they want to do."

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

From CNN:


As more information has come to light through the debriefs, it's now understood that the crew decided to "cut a corner" to make up time to get to a planned refueling point. It's not clear whether they were lower on fuel than expected.

That change of course began a series of events that led them apparently unknowingly into Iranian waters, officials said.

The crew stopped to fix an engine problem on one of the boats, not realizing they had drifted too close to Iran's Farsi Island, the official said.

[tb-av]

Yeah.... that's the ticket.

[ColtSeavers]

At this point, as much as I want to jump to conclusions, I'm still just thankful they've all been safely returned.

[Benito]

Gawd damn it. Kerry makes Chamberlain look like a brass balled meat eating Viking.

http://news.yahoo.com/kerry-told-iran-sailor-capture-could-made-good-193520880.html


Kerry told Iran sailor capture could be made into 'good story'
AFP
January 13, 2016 3:23 PM

US Secretary of State John Kerry
.
View photo
US Secretary of State John Kerry (AFP Photo/Saul Loeb )

Related Stories

Iran's Zarif told Kerry U.S. sailors would be released promptly Reuters
Iran holds 10 US sailors in Gulf AFP
Implementation of Iran nuclear deal 'days away': Kerry AFP
Iran frees US sailors, heading off crisis AFP
Anxious phone calls, tense moments before Iran's Supreme Leader okayed U.S. sailors' release Reuters
15 Jaw Dropping Female Golf Players In 2015 The Sport Buzz Sponsored 
Washington (AFP) - US Secretary of State John Kerry told Iran's foreign minister that Tehran's capture and release of 10 US sailors could be turned into a "good story" for both countries, a US official said Wednesday.

Kerry called Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif at least five times on Tuesday to secure the safe release of the boat crews after they strayed into Iranian territorial waters in the Gulf and were captured.

During the calls, a senior US official told reporters, Kerry urged his counterpart to consider the potential crisis an opportunity to showcase the strengths of the thawing diplomatic relationship between the old foes.

"They speak relatively regularly, none of this is unusual in the wake of the dialogue we've had on nuclear issues," he said, adding that Kerry had already had a scheduled call with Zarif before the news broke.

Kerry explained to Zarif that the sailors -- crews in two US Navy patrol boats -- had been on a routine transit mission between Kuwait and Bahrein and urged him to ensure that they were released quickly and unharmed.

And he added "if we are able to do this in the right way it would be a good story for both of us."

According to the US official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss a private diplomatic exchange, Kerry's success in the negotiation was testament to the closer ties developed between the governments during negotiations on the Iran nuclear deal.

After Kerry and Zarif's discussions, Tehran agreed to release the sailors and their boats and the incident was handed over to the two militaries to arrange the safe transfer of the personnel back to the US fleet.

[KalashniKEV]

Mechanical problem and the drifted into Iranian territorial waters. I don't think anyone is disputing that.

Really?


Here is what Matt Clueless, retired SEAL, wrote on his facebook page:

The claim by Iran that the USN boats "strayed into Iranian waters" is complete bull$‪#‎it‬.


LOLOLOL!!!1!

Delish.


I was thinking something more Tom Clancy with the Iranians spoofing the NAV systems...

We have a winner!


I know we'll never be privy to it, but I would love to read the debrief of this, like what the Iranians actually did.

I'ma just drop this right here...

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/07/31/80-million-yacht-hijacked-by-students-spoofing-gps-signals/

[ColtSeavers]

I'ma just drop this right here...

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/07/31/80-million-yacht-hijacked-by-students-spoofing-gps-signals/


That was very interesting, and has lead me on a fun and informational tangent. Thank you.

[KalashniKEV]

That was very interesting, and has lead me on a fun and informational tangent. Thank you.

I'll toss this out too, and say no more...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avtobaza

[Big A]

I'll toss this out too, and say no more...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avtobaza
Thanks for the info Kev. I wasn't buying the "official story" and kept thinking about that drone of ours they took over and captured and figured this situation had to be similar some how.

Really?



LOLOLOL!!!1!

Delish.



We have a winner!



I'ma just drop this right here...

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/07/31/80-million-yacht-hijacked-by-students-spoofing-gps-signals/

[Moose-Knuckle]

I'ma just drop this right here...

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/07/31/80-million-yacht-hijacked-by-students-spoofing-gps-signals/


This really isn't and shouldn't be surprising in this day and age but the question begs to be asked why this administration blatantly lied AGAIN, and thanked the ****ing Iranians for returning our Sailors after they had them on their knees with their hands behind their heads at gun point (off camera of course) . . .





I'll toss this out too, and say no more...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avtobaza

Sounds like the same tech the Turks used on the Russian fighter back in November.

[platoonDaddy]

Now those raghead CS, posted pictures of sailors crying. L-N-L


Iran Publishes Pictures of Captured U.S. Sailors Crying

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-publishes-pictures-of-captured-u-s-sailors-crying/

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

What ever happened to guys like these:

http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html

[platoonDaddy]

What ever happened to guys like these:

http://www.usspueblo.org/Prisoners/The_Digit_Affair.html

thanks, forgot all about that! For sure whatever happened to guys like those!

[platoonDaddy]

Friggin helmsman should be on a firing line! Dang this is bull shit.

Using tapatalk for first time and don't know to post link. Had to vent, what the frig is happening to the arm forces.

Story on Foxnews web page


Shit, can't even edit the forum heading.

Should read: Iranian forces


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Arik]

It's easy. In the article select the link above (HTTP://. ....) and copy it.

Come here and touch the portion where you type and you'll get a PASTE icon. Click it and it will instantly paste your last copy

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/ef9b0b6e8fe4577bf79fae27ab96d9a7.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160623/1609d436ba598efb1b443cedca0a2923.jpg

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/23/navy-commodore-to-be-relieved-command-over-irans-capture-his-sailors.html

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Sam]

Here's the story:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/23/navy-commodore-to-be-relieved-command-over-irans-capture-his-sailors.html?intcmp=hpbt1

[Outlander Systems]

"Lieutenant" and, "Highest-ranking."

I think vomited a little bit in my mouth.

[platoonDaddy]

"Lieutenant" and, "Highest-ranking."

I think vomited a little bit in my mouth.

Frigging ranking seaman should have thrown him overboard.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Outlander Systems]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

****ing walk the plank!


Frigging ranking seaman should have thrown him overboard.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Koshinn]

Frigging ranking seaman should have thrown him overboard.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wait, why would they throw the Lieutenant overboard? He gave them an order to evade the Iranians and the helmsman refused... shouldn't the helmsman have been shot?

Also, it's a Navy Lieutenant, not an Army 2LT. If an Army Captain can lead a company (about 30 soldiers), why shouldn't the Navy equivalent lead two small boats (10 sailors - 5 per boat)?

[Firefly]

conefinement, bread and water, 20 lashes, and have him walk the plank.

[ABNAK]

Wait, why would they throw the Lieutenant overboard? He gave them an order to evade the Iranians and the helmsman refused... shouldn't the helmsman have been shot?

Also, it's a Navy Lieutenant, not an Army 2LT. If an Army Captain can lead a company (about 30 soldiers), why shouldn't the Navy equivalent lead two small boats (10 sailors - 5 per boat)?

You're a little off on your numbers there zoomie! Your looking at roughly 200 guys. Unless of course you've just taken Hamburger Hill or survived The Bulge!

[lawusmc0844]

Frigging ranking seaman should have thrown him overboard.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If you're referring to the Helmsman, I agree. That pussy embarrassed us in front of the world, he needs to be hung for his cowardice in the face of the enemy. What rank was he anyway, couldn't find it...

And liberals tell me our military under the current traitor in chief hasn't been weakened....

[Koshinn]

You're a little off on your numbers there zoomie! Your looking at roughly 200 guys. Unless of course you've just taken Hamburger Hill or survived The Bulge!

I thought so, but for some reason my head isn't working too great today :p It might also depend if the Captain isn't combat arms right?

So if an Army O-3 can have 200 soldiers, why is it so surprising that a Navy O-3 has 10 sailors?

[platoonDaddy]

Wait, why would they throw the Lieutenant overboard? He gave them an order to evade the Iranians and the helmsman refused... shouldn't the helmsman have been shot?

Also, it's a Navy Lieutenant, not an Army 2LT. If an Army Captain can lead a company (about 30 soldiers), why shouldn't the Navy equivalent lead two small boats (10 sailors - 5 per boat)?

I was Army, but I always thought the helmsman was the ranking man on board. No?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[3 AE]

I was Army, but I always thought the helmsman was the ranking man on board. No?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Usually a helmsman is an enlisted rating. Could be a Seaman 1st Class or 3rd Class Petty Officer. On small boats the CO could be an Ensign, Lt. JG, or a Lt. The CO gives the orders and the helmsman follows the orders. Just like when a guy is at the wheel of his car. He's the helmsman. The wife sitting next to him, and/ or his mother-in-law sitting behind him is/are the CO. They give the orders to turn here, turn there, park here, park there, speed up, slow down, etc., etc. The driver(helmsman) does exactly what they tell him to, if he wants any peace/piece in his lifetime. ;)

[pinzgauer]

Wait, why would they throw the Lieutenant overboard? He gave them an order to evade the Iranians and the helmsman refused... shouldn't the helmsman have been shot?

Also, it's a Navy Lieutenant, not an Army 2LT. If an Army Captain can lead a company (about 30 soldiers), why shouldn't the Navy equivalent lead two small boats (10 sailors - 5 per boat)?

Yep, Navy LT is O3 equiv to an Army CPT, who would normally command a 120+ man company. (4 x approx 40 men platoons plus hq)

Even an army infantry butterbar commands 38, through 8 NCO's hopefully to keep him out of trouble.

Sounds like multiple errors and some complacency.

But a helmsman who refuses an otherwise legal order? The chiefs on board should have dealt with that, much less the O3.

Navy O1's are ensigns. I guess it could have been an O2 LTJG.

(Oops, just saw others had answered similar while I was responding)

[Eurodriver]

Why was the helmsman not punched in the dick and overruled?

liberal brainwashing that the Iranians are good people?

[T2C]

Friggin helmsman should be on a firing line! Dang this is bull shit.

Using tapatalk for first time and don't know to post link. Had to vent, what the frig is happening to the arm forces.

Story on Foxnews web page


Shit, can't even edit the forum heading.

Should read: Iranian forces


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Should read: 1500 Iranian forces killed for attempting to detain U.S. Troops.

[jpmuscle]

Should read: 1500 Iranian forces killed for attempting to detain U.S. Troops.
Bingo.

[Firefly]

Should read: 1500 Iranian forces killed for attempting to detain U.S. Troops.

I agree.

Why oh why must we be so Britneyed up?

Police can't police, Military not allowed to military, and our people in government are so lame.

[Endur]

A damn embarrassment, a travesty.

This calls for Johnny Cash - I Hung My Head.

[Honu]

and this again is another reason why if the left in control says to the military take the civilians weapons I do think half will be like OK and be gung ho about it

sadly if we can not turn things around we are hosed as future generations are so so so so so so stupid and blind about everything but political correctness

[Pilot1]

The John Kerry/Obama solution. Appease, appease, appease, and show weakness. The real solution would have been to go in with force and take our hostages back. F*ck Iran.

[Outlander Systems]

Reading is fundamental. Temporary case of Derpes.

Helmsman should have been beaten in a riotous and tumultuous fashion, and given a ticket to Davy Jones' locker.




Wait, why would they throw the Lieutenant overboard? He gave them an order to evade the Iranians and the helmsman refused... shouldn't the helmsman have been shot?

Also, it's a Navy Lieutenant, not an Army 2LT. If an Army Captain can lead a company (about 30 soldiers), why shouldn't the Navy equivalent lead two small boats (10 sailors - 5 per boat)?

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

What would Lieutenant Colonel Ronald C. Speirs have done if his subordinate refused a direct order in that situation? Hmmmm.....

[TAZ]

While I tend to agree that the Helmsman should have followed orders, the questions comes back to who was issuing the orders. The Navy report claims lots of prep derp one being no clear chain of command. If the helmsman though person A was in charge yet B was barking orders I can understand some hesitation. Sounds like a total failure of leadership to insure your men are clear on the task at hand.

[pinzgauer]

While I tend to agree that the Helmsman should have followed orders, the questions comes back to who was issuing the orders. The Navy report claims lots of prep derp one being no clear chain of command. If the helmsman though person A was in charge yet B was barking orders I can understand some hesitation. Sounds like a total failure of leadership to insure your men are clear on the task at hand.

Just trying to understand how the chain of command could not be clear. But must of my exposure is through Army and that as a civvy via observation, friends, and a son.

Never seen or heard of a non-"fog of war" situation where there was a question on chain of command within an intact platoon or even company. And if the officers were mistaken or being stupid the NCO's dealt with it in a way that did not undermine the officers command. Likewise, they can't hardly move a hummer without a safety briefing, a defined vehicle commander, etc. Across multiple peer commands you hear of some CoC issues, but that was not the case here.

I'm sure stupid can occur everywhere, but just having a hard time figuring this one out.

What I could see happening is peer ensigns (O1) or LTJG's (O2) in each boat having a different interpretation of the orders. And if their boss did not brief them clearly that could occur, and would be the senior leader's fault. Was the O3 on the boats? Or back on the mothership lounge?

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Just trying to understand how the chain of command could not be clear. But must of my exposure is through Army and that as a civvy via observation, friends, and a son.

Never seen or heard of a non-"fog of war" situation where there was a question on chain of command within an intact platoon or even company. And if the officers were mistaken or being stupid the NCO's dealt with it in a way that did not undermine the officers command. Likewise, they can't hardly move a hummer without a safety briefing, a defined vehicle commander, etc. Across multiple peer commands you hear of some CoC issues, but that was not the case here.

I'm sure stupid can occur everywhere, but just having a hard time figuring this one out.

What I could see happening is peer ensigns (O1) or LTJG's (O2) in each boat having a different interpretation of the orders. And if their boss did not brief them clearly that could occur, and would be the senior leader's fault. Was the O3 on the boats? Or back on the mothership lounge?

I deployed with the 11th MEU on the USS Pearl Harbor ( Marine with Navy guys). I found the Navy chain of command to be confusing, and the leaders themselves to often be weak or ineffective. This isn't my grandfather's Navy.

[platoonDaddy]

Navy says American sailors blabbed to Iranian captors

The US sailors who were detained by the Iranian navy last winter provided their name, rank and serial numbers — and pretty much everything else their captors demanded, the US Navy said in a blistering report Thursday.

The 10 crew members, captured at gunpoint in the Persian Gulf on Jan. 12 by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, improperly revealed passwords for laptops and cellphones and even sensitive technical details about their two ships, including their top speed, capabilities and missions, the report said.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/30/navy-says-american-sailors-blabbed-to-iranian-captors/

[chuckman]

I deployed with the 11th MEU on the USS Pearl Harbor ( Marine with Navy guys). I found the Navy chain of command to be confusing, and the leaders themselves to often be weak or ineffective. This isn't my grandfather's Navy.

I was a corpsman so I get it from both perspectives. Deployed for a float, but never a part of ship's company. I will say that the actual Navy CoC on a warship is pretty straightforward and not ambiguous. As for weak/ineffective, depends on the boat. The Marines' CoC much "leaner" for sure.

This is just utterly ****ed up, and a reflection on the CoC and leadership.

[pinzgauer]

More detail, I can now see why the higher ups are being impacted.

Boat commanders clearly complacent in not having security, etc.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/06/30/poor-training-leadership-led-to-iran-capturing-us-sailors-navy.html

[SOWT]

Navy says American sailors blabbed to Iranian captors

The US sailors who were detained by the Iranian navy last winter provided their name, rank and serial numbers — and pretty much everything else their captors demanded, the US Navy said in a blistering report Thursday.

The 10 crew members, captured at gunpoint in the Persian Gulf on Jan. 12 by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, improperly revealed passwords for laptops and cellphones and even sensitive technical details about their two ships, including their top speed, capabilities and missions, the report said.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/30/navy-says-american-sailors-blabbed-to-iranian-captors/

What SERE Training did they get? formal school or computer based?
That said they should quietly leave at the end of their enlistments.

[chuckman]

What SERE Training did they get? formal school or computer based?
That said they should quietly leave at the end of their enlistments.

I believe the non-SWCC guys get the computer SERE, no formal training.

[T2C]

More detail, I can now see why the higher ups are being impacted.

Boat commanders clearly complacent in not having security, etc.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/06/30/poor-training-leadership-led-to-iran-capturing-us-sailors-navy.html

At a minimum the Coxswain should be a civilian by now.

"As Iranian troops racked their weapons and pointed AK-47s and .50-caliber guns at the sailors, the officer made another attempt to extricate the boats from the worsening situation, ordering the lead boat's coxswain to accelerate through the Iranian boats in a getaway attempt. But the coxswain disregarded the order, telling investigators later that he thought members of the crew would be killed if he followed it."

Apparently the rules of engagement were not followed.

"The two boat captains did not understand proper procedure for addressing an engine failure underway. They failed to keep their weapons manned while dead in the water to guard against a surprise attack. Both captains failed to exercise self-defense when the Iranians demonstrated hostile intent, the investigation found, due to a lack of understanding of how to do so. The lead boat captain surrendered both boats to the Iranian authorities, the probe found. While the military code of conduct acknowledges that troops may be captured, it forbids surrender if they have the means to resist."

The report also blames lack of support, training, etc. to justify the FUBAR response to the intercept by the Iranian watercraft, which is a bullshit response.

[Slater]

Unless the Iranians were fired on by the Americans, I don't think the boat crewman were in any real danger. Especially in the glare of international media. It did make good PR for Iran, though - "See, we captured the US personnel but humanely treated them".

In the great scheme of things, it's just a minor incident. The shortcomings it revealed on the US side are evidently more significant.

[Vandal]

I believe the non-SWCC guys get the computer SERE, no formal training.

Even then they should have known all you give is name, rank, SSN and DoB. That was pounded into my head in ROTC and BMT.

The coxswain who refused a direct order to GTFO refusal that could be argued lead to capture, needs to be court martialed. That wasn't his decision to make, just execute.

[chuckman]

Even then they should have known all you give is name, rank, SSN and DoB. That was pounded into my head in ROTC and BMT.

The coxswain who refused a direct order to GTFO refusal that could be argued lead to capture, needs to be court martialed. That wasn't his decision to make, just execute.

Concur, with all. That ****er needs to stand trial and stand tall before the man.

[pinzgauer]

Even then they should have known all you give is name, rank, SSN and DoB. That was pounded into my head in ROTC and BMT.

The coxswain who refused a direct order to GTFO refusal that could be argued lead to capture, needs to be court martialed. That wasn't his decision to make, just execute.

That was my read. But sounds like there was blame to go all around. Even recognizing the real world can be slacker than training and procedure, I can't imagine half the stuff them mention occurring, much less being tolerated.

[Moose-Knuckle]

This serves to remind me what eight years of a radical Marxist POTUS has gotten us . . .

[Outlander Systems]

Please dude, remove the TU from that acronym.


This serves to remind me what eight years of a radical Marxist POTUS has gotten us . . .

[KalashniKEV]

Both captains failed to exercise self-defense when the Iranians demonstrated hostile intent, the investigation found, due to a lack of understanding of how to do so.

Haha... If I were TC-ing some badass boat I'd have the guns out the whole damn time just for the hell of it- even in our port.

I'd be blasting past the buoy that says "ALL WEAPONS CLEAR BEYOND THIS POINT" making big waves in the no wake zone like "screw that!" and then go tie off to some chow-hall-dock-bar thing and get in trouble for not having my PT belt and for growing my sideburns out.

[platoonDaddy]

POS appealing his reprimand, should do some hard-time! Graduated from the Academy in 2011 where he studied aerospace engineering.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5083376334001/sailor-who-apologized-to-iran-in-video-appeals-punishment/?#sp=show-clips

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/08/11/david-nartker-appealing-njp-scott-swift-pacflt/88573798/

[Falar]

Should read: 1500 Iranian forces killed for attempting to detain U.S. Troops.

Yeah, I didn't keep up with this story and just now am reading this whole thread. ****ing shameful.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I believe the non-SWCC guys get the computer SERE, no formal training.

So, either a couple of weeks in the cold with a good mountain man hazing, or a slide show? Is there no inbetween? Maybe at least a classroom setting where you are forced to stay awake?

[Koshinn]

So, either a couple of weeks in the cold with a good mountain man hazing, or a slide show? Is there no inbetween? Maybe at least a classroom setting where you are forced to stay awake?

The USAF has an in-between, but I can't go into specifics. The Navy does too, but when I attended the in-between course, it was all USAF and run by the USAF.