View Full Version : Appendix Carry
just got back from ToddG's monthly practice session at the NRA range, where I ran my HK P30/CCC Shaggy combo. This month's session covered drawing and reloading on the move...
This was my third range visit with the P30 (~550 rounds down range so far), and the first using the Shaggy w/SKD mag carrier setup carrying under an untucked polo shirt.
It could not have been a more perfectly timed practice session, as it gave me a solid three hours under watchful eyes while I worked on the AIWB draw, and HK paddle mag release. Weaknesses have been identified and I now have a better idea of what to work on with dry fire/movement/reloads at home.
I think I've mentioned before that I have carried AIWB since 1991.
Last weekend my lady and I attended Tactical Response's Fighting Pistol course ( worth every penny !!! ). There were 25 shooters and we were the only two carrying AIWB. I carry a G19 in Dale Fricke's Archangel holster and his Archangel IWB mag pouch (both of which I have had Dale modify it a bit for me). The combo worked great.
I wear the holster at about 1230 (right handed) and the mag pouch sit immediately to the holster's left in the gap.
My lady carries a G26 in a High Noon Public Secret w/clip and carries a 15 round mag in her pocket.
We shoot from many positions including supine, seated, kneeling etc., and even shoot while rising from supine. We also shot, fixed malfunctions and reloaded on the move at various speeds. AIWB worked great.
In fact, the only time I have found it to be inconvenient at all was when I was shoveling and using a pick axe in the garden.
Does anyone know when they will taking orders for the Shaggy again?
It seems like everytime I check they are still not taking any orders...:confused:
I wish I could give a date. Every time I make up some ground on the backlog something comes up and I lose a few days or a week of production. This is exactly why I stopped taking new orders. It was getting to be impossible to be even remotely accurate on shipping dates.
Shoot me an email rschaefer@customcarryconcepts I will put you on the list to receive an email a few days before I bring website back on line.
Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks to everyone for your patience.
just got back from ToddG's monthly practice session at the NRA range, where I ran my HK P30/CCC Shaggy combo....
Whoa, first real try at AIWB, too? Did I read that right? Or just first time AIWB with that holster?
If so, I had no idea, and you did really well with it. Smooth, little if any real wasted motion; not like me and my 3+o'clock. Get away from feeling the need to stand all the way up to draw, you're gonna be an unholy terror, man.
Whoa, first real try at AIWB, too? Did I read that right? Or just first time AIWB with that holster?
If so, I had no idea, and you did really well with it. Smooth, little if any real wasted motion; not like me and my 3+o'clock. Get away from feeling the need to stand all the way up to draw, you're gonna be an unholy terror, man.
almost - I tried my G19 in a CCC Looper late last year a few times at the range, but could not get comfortable with reholstering so I switched back to my RCS phantom @ 3 o'clock and ran that setup until very recently...
thanks Jim - last night was like back to square one in a lot of respects (trigger, mag release and AIWB setup), but I'll keep working at it. These practice sessions really drive home the basics - again this particular class was perfect timing for me with the pistol/carry method changeover :cool:
you did well (especially the last run of the night); just remember what Todd mentioned and you'll shave some time off the draw in no time (hand to the gun vice sweeping your cover garment so much).
So I got my Shaggy a couple of weeks ago but didn't have my G19 back from Gentle Ben to try it out. I ended up picking up another G19 this week and tried the Shaggy out yesterday for the first time.
From a non-operator type guy ... here's my take on the holster.
I really like the simplicity of the design. It is very well made and is perfectly fitted to the pistol. I like the way the adjustment screw is a regular old flat head and not a hex like everyone else wants to use. I hate that. Seriously, why not just use something most folks have on their multi-tool and or can use a knife blade in a pinch? Anyway, back to the holster. It securely holds the pistol and gives that positive snap when you put the gun in/out. The snap loops are my preference for any holster so that's a win here. The snaps are pretty tight since they are new but will loosen up over time. I had an issue with one and had to actually take the holster off to re-snap it and thread my belt through. That's not a problem ... it will loosen up over time. The holster was very stable and I never felt like it was going to move/shift/flip out/etc. Overall, I highly recommend this holster for folks looking for kydex. I would just as soon have this over the other kydex holsters I've tried, including Comp-Tac. The only thing Comp-Tac has over this one from CCC is a shorter wait time ... nothing more. Sometimes you have to wait for quality. Well ... almost always.
Unfortunately, as I had already once decided I can't AIWB a G19 due to my short stature. I am 5'6" and the G19 is just a bit too much for comfort for me. I wore this for about 3 hours before I just gave up and shifted it to 3 o'clock. There it was fantastic and that's where it stayed for the remainder of the day. No big deal. It wasn't the holster ... it was just the size of the gun and my height that was an issue. I love AIWB and for short excursions the G19 might still work.
I do carry my P238 AIWB quite comfortably and love it there.
John_Wayne777
06-06-10, 13:43
Keep playing with the appendix position, bro. Believe it or not one inch of difference in placement can mean the difference between comfortable carry and pain. It's something you have to play with to get just right. Took me about 3 weeks of daily use to find my "sweet spot" where it's now perfectly comfortable for all day carry.
While I carry a 1911 or G19 85% of the time using a Sparks Heritage #1 or a Alessi DOJ in the 3 o'clock position, I've found appendix carry in the 1 o'clock position is very useful in certain work & sport attire. The one place it does NOT work well is for bicycle and horseback riding. Since there is minimal difference in carry position between my normal 3 o'clock and AIWB at 1 o'clock, there is no significant loss in motor memory between these two carry modes. Over the years, I've carried J-frames, S&W 3913/4013/4513, G19/17's, full size M&P's and 1911's in this mode with NO problems. As noted by many others, extensive practice drawing & reholstering with an empty handgun or a "blue gun" before carrying for real is a wise idea.
As I mentioned back on page 6 of this epic length thread, shortly after 9/11, Lou Alessi made holsters so issued M1911 pistols could be carried AIWB--this was the only effective carry method while wearing a double breasted service dress uniform coat, especially when seated in a vehicle.
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/26468-AlessiAPX-IWB.jpg
It also turned out to work very well when needing to discreetly carry a pistol while in field uniforms--for example when doing civil affairs/medcaps with host nationals/indigenous folks:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/GKRAIWB1911DCU.jpg?t=1275844929
It also works well in civilian attire:
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq319/DocGKR/GKRAIWB1911.jpg?t=1275845029
These Alessi holsters worked perfectly for the intended mission. I became a big fan of their slight reverse cant. To date, this is the most comfortable and effective A-IWB holster I have used--the only thing that could be improved upon is perhaps a better belt fastener (although I am not aware of anyone breaking one of the Talon clips while using this particular holster). I'll soon be trying one of the new Garrity Invictus models for 1911's and see how that compares.
In addition, I have been using the CCC Looper holsters for the G19 and M&P45--these have worked well, especially since the loop design was strengthened (I broke a couple of the older ones); I have the CCC "Shaggy" on order for both G19 and M&P45 and look forward to trying them.
Keep playing with the appendix position, bro. Believe it or not one inch of difference in placement can mean the difference between comfortable carry and pain. It's something you have to play with to get just right. Took me about 3 weeks of daily use to find my "sweet spot" where it's now perfectly comfortable for all day carry.
I believe you and will keep trying. I tell people I loved my CTAC when I first got it but it literally took me almost a year of trying different heights, cants, positions until I found the sweet spot for me ... the one that made me totally forget it was there ... and invisible.
dookie1481
06-07-10, 11:50
I've really tried with the Shaggy, but I just can't seem to get it to conceal my pistol at all. The wedge shape (and the shape of my belly) pushes the butt of the gun away from my body and makes concealment damn near impossible. I've gone back to my Looper (which I keep forgetting to sent in to get fixed) and have my Shaggy up for trade in the EE if anyone is interested.
Jay
I heard this story on the radio and thought I'd share it here just for fun. It sounds like the guy was carrying A-IWB "Mexican" style.
Shoppers recall silence, fear in Lynnwood Lowe's store when man shot himself in testicles (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012026554_shooting04m.html)
By Erik Lacitis
Seattle Times staff reporter
Wow... the G30 is one of my two most carried pistols and I can't imagine carrying one (or any gun) while wearing draw-string sweatpants! Some folks just can't help themselves, can they! :rolleyes:
I heard this story on the radio and thought I'd share it here just for fun. It sounds like the guy was carrying A-IWB "Mexican" style.
Shoppers recall silence, fear in Lynnwood Lowe's store when man shot himself in testicles (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012026554_shooting04m.html)
By Erik Lacitis
Seattle Times staff reporter
For a few seconds, there was total silence at Lowe's Home Improvement in Lynnwood just after the gunshot went off at 12:30 on Sunday afternoon.
"It was dead quiet," remembers Jim Fischer, a Shoreline Fire Department paramedic who happened to be at the checkout line with his wife, Kim. They're doing a bathroom remodel.
These days, you hear a loud bang while shopping, and it's hard not to think the worst.
"I'm thinking, if it's an active shooter, we're bolting," Fischer says.
Then a Lowe's employee shouted for somebody to call an ambulance, that somebody had shot himself.
OK, Fischer decided, I better go see if I can help the victim.
It turned out to be a story that by the next day would go viral on the Web:
A 41-year-old Lynnwood man had accidentally shot himself in the testicles at Lowe's.
For those at the scene, it would be something they'll remember as initially scary, and then, as they learned the details ... the guy did what?
Helping the victim, who was wearing black sweatpants, Fischer asked how it happened.
"He says, 'It was in my waistband, and I felt it starting to slip, reached for it, and I must have positioned my finger so the trigger went off," Fischer remembered Thursday.
A Lynnwood police report about the incident says the gun was a Glock 30, a compact pistol described by the manufacturer as "the legendary .45 caliber."
The man had a concealed-weapons permit to carry the gun, said Shannon Sessions, spokeswoman for Lynnwood police.
The Times is not naming the man because no crime was committed.
The report says the man was "joking with staff members" at Harborview Medical Center after medics took him there.
But on Wednesday afternoon, back at his apartment after being released from the hospital Tuesday, he wasn't in much of a joking mood.
"I'm up. I'm walking. I'm good. I don't want to talk to you," he said.
He then closed the door.
Harborview said it could not disclose the extent of his injuries.
Fischer says that as he helped the victim as they waited for medics to arrive — by applying pressure to the wound, and by cutting away the sweatpants while leaving on the underwear — he could see the groin area was injured, and that there was a wound in middle of the left thigh, and swelling on the top of the left foot.
He surmised that was the trajectory of the bullet.
Those familiar with guns wonder why someone would carry a loaded pistol in his sweatpants.
"It's not the brightest way to carry it. Sweatpants are loose and not held against your body by a belt," said Dave Workman, senior editor of Gun Week and author of "Washington State Gun Rights and Responsibilities."
Workman said the bullet wounded the man "at literally point-blank. Think about that for a second."
The Glock 30 sells for about $630 and weighs 1-½ pounds empty, 2.1 pounds when carrying its 10-round capacity.
Glock advertises the pistol as having a "Safe Action" system. For example, it includes a mechanism that prevents unintentional firing if the pistol is accidentally dropped on the floor.
But Glock also warns, "One operating element — one rule. Finger away from the trigger ... "
Workman says that in the "adrenaline rush" of reaching for a gun that's slipped, it's natural for the index finger to then also close on the trigger.
Then, bang.
For the shoppers who were at Lowe's on Sunday afternoon, it'll certainly be a memorable spring Sunday.
Kim Fischer will remember that after deciding there wasn't a random shooter in the store, "nobody got panicky. There was nobody running down the floor screaming."
What Michael McDougall, of Snohomish, who was there with his wife, Connie, and their 5-year-old daughter, Bridgette, will remember also is that initial moment of fear.
"Initially I thought it was maybe gang-related. I was afraid for my wife and daughter, and I thought, 'I think we should be leaving.' " he says.
He commends the Lowe's employees for their calm actions in getting help. A manager at Lowe's said store personnel are not commenting on the incident.
And he remembers the initial scream, "Oh, my God, I shot myself in the groin!"
That's a quote you remember for years.
This guy should have taken a lesson from Plaxico Burress. All the same stupid mistakes. Glock+No Holster+Sweatpants=hole in the leg.
This guy should have taken a lesson from Plaxico Burress. All the same stupid mistakes. Glock+No Holster+Sweatpants=hole in the leg.
AAAHAHAHAHAHA
Darwinism at it's finest!
Guy who should not have a weapon, shoots himself in the nuts, can not reproduce, thus, we have less people who should not have firearms.
Awesome!
Im looking to CCW a G19 when I visit my friends in free states [using a Florida CCW] and this was my greatest fear. But the folks on here assured me that as long as I am not a retard like this guy, I should be fine, and I agree. Good holster + finger off trigger = my balls are safe.
I am not sure if this bit of info I am about to post would be helpful to anyone - simply because it is not "searcheable" and only most dedicated reader will go through 28 pages long thread. This is a small eval and observations.
Pistol - P7M8, holster - CCC's Shaggy. At the time of me ordering it, there was only one other Shaggy built for P7, so there isn't much of user data on this combo.
Pistol's pros in regards to AIWB: short slide - less digging into groin; positive 10 lbs mechanical safety and ability to feel for striker - better safety margin during reholstering.
Pistol's cons in regards to AIWB: short slide - doesn't stabilize heavy frame/butt as well; comparatively to conventional guns, P7 has to sit higher to clear squeeze cocker; heavy all steel frame combined with higher position combined with shorter slide - stability and comfort issues.
Holster issues: Not too many. Worksmanship is excellent. I have both kydex loop and snap loops. Kydex one appears more stable. One problem is that it doesn't work well with some of my pants where belt loop is wide and interferes with appropriate holster position.
Twice I have ejected a magazine during reholstering by pressing trigger release lever against holster - this is a training issue, but is probably worth mentioning.
Every day carry experience: plain and simple, it is more difficult, pant-sensitive (I want to trademark the term) and less comfortable to me. With my Delfatti IWB, P7 simply disappears; I often forget it is there. With AIWB I always feel it. I can find a position where it doesn't bother me, but I know it is there. More difficult: with AIWB even 1-2 cm of position shift may mean the difference between relative comfort vs pain. This shift has happened several times requiring me to seek cover and reposition the holster. With conventional IWB, while position shift is not desirable for consistency purposes, it doesn't bother me.
Pant-sensitivity: softer fabrique and lower rise pants don't jive well with AIWB, and I already mentioned occasional interaction with front belt loops. With IWB, this hasn't been an issue. With most pants I wear there is a for-aft minimal rotational movement of holster/gun. It isn't unstable, but it isn't as rock solid as IWB.
Shirt-sensitivity: I always wear closed-front shirts/T-shirts so it hasn't been much change. However, with IWB all I need to make sure is that shirt is long enough. With AIWB, it has to be long and relatively loose.
So, with all that, I decided I was going to proclaim that either AIWB is not for me, or P7M8 is not for AIWB. Since no good eval is compete without actual live fire, I headed to the range today to assess
Live fire performance: 0.40 second advantage for the first shot on 3x5 card at 25 feet with AIWB, and this was my first ever live AIWB practice. That much advantage is hard to ignore or argue with.
I am still deciding if I am going to carry AIWB. I have a Glock 19 but, unlike many others here, I am not going to carry striker-fired safety-less pistol that way. P7M8 may work with some attire, but not other. Biggest question for me is whether to try it with my 5" Dawson-railed 1911s.
dookie1481
06-15-10, 22:35
I've really tried with the Shaggy, but I just can't seem to get it to conceal my pistol at all. The wedge shape (and the shape of my belly) pushes the butt of the gun away from my body and makes concealment damn near impossible. I've gone back to my Looper (which I keep forgetting to sent in to get fixed) and have my Shaggy up for trade in the EE if anyone is interested.
Jay
I think I'm gonna stick with my Shaggy for now and give it a try...I'm pretty sure if I lost about 10 pounds it would be outstanding.
I also ordered a Garrity In-Victus AIWB holster. Mark said the wait is about 5-6 months right now, so hopefully I'll have it for X-Mas.
Jay
I think I'm gonna stick with my Shaggy for now and give it a try...I'm pretty sure if I lost about 10 pounds it would be outstanding.
Jay
I dropped fifteen pounds from the time I first got my Looper and the comfort of carry was increased dramatically for me. AIWB benefits a great deal more from being trim than regular IWB does.
Anyone can help me whith how get Shaggy ordered and shipped to Poland? Web shop on CCC seem to be out of work.
I'm left handed and I carry P2000SK and P30. Now I use MTAC (VMII before it), but since I lost some 50lb in last few months it starts to print on my side :(
H
Anyone can help me whith how get Shaggy ordered and shipped to Poland? Web shop on CCC seem to be out of work.
I'm left handed and I carry P2000SK and P30. Now I use MTAC (VMII before it), but since I lost some 50lb in last few months it starts to print on my side :(
Rich turns off his webshop when he doesn't take orders due to backlog. I would email him to discuss logistics of your situation.
H
Rich turns off his webshop when he doesn't take orders due to backlog. I would email him to discuss logistics of your situation.
Thanks!
I may have missed it but does anybody have any experience with the Shaggy and using the clip or leather loops? Pictures would be helpful as well.
Looks like he's taking orders again, cause I just ordered mine :D
Looks like he's taking orders again, cause I just ordered mine :D
Shhhhhh......
I may have missed it but does anybody have any experience with the Shaggy and using the clip or leather loops? Pictures would be helpful as well.
I have the loops and so far they are working out very well. Very easy on/off without having to undo the belt. I'll try to get some pics up.
I have the loops and so far they are working out very well. Very easy on/off without having to undo the belt. I'll try to get some pics up.
That'd be great, thanks!
Like it a lot, I have since shortened the loops to fit a 1.5 inch belt.
http://nfranco.smugmug.com/Other/coolimages/IMG2993/905538591_TgqD5-M.jpg
http://nfranco.smugmug.com/Other/coolimages/IMG2989/905537759_Te69w-M.jpg
http://nfranco.smugmug.com/Other/coolimages/IMG2994/905538903_Y5pXB-M.jpg
So what does the Garrity Invictus offer me compared to the C.C.C. Shaggy? I'm in the market for a new rig (upgrading from the Raven ACR) and I'm wondering if the Shaggy has something the Invictus does not. I'm wanting leather because it would allow me to do some rolling around with the holster and not have it crack on me.
Anyone can help me whith how get Shaggy ordered and shipped to Poland? Web shop on CCC seem to be out of work.
I'm left handed and I carry P2000SK and P30. Now I use MTAC (VMII before it), but since I lost some 50lb in last few months it starts to print on my side :(
Rich told me he doesn't export. That was about a year ago so I don't know if it's changed.
gtmtnbiker98
06-20-10, 10:11
So what does the Garrity Invictus offer me compared to the C.C.C. Shaggy? I'm in the market for a new rig (upgrading from the Raven ACR) and I'm wondering if the Shaggy has something the Invictus does not. I'm wanting leather because it would allow me to do some rolling around with the holster and not have it crack on me.I have also looked at the Invictus, but I stop at the price.
John_Wayne777
06-20-10, 17:27
So what does the Garrity Invictus offer me compared to the C.C.C. Shaggy? I'm in the market for a new rig (upgrading from the Raven ACR) and I'm wondering if the Shaggy has something the Invictus does not. I'm wanting leather because it would allow me to do some rolling around with the holster and not have it crack on me.
The scuttlebutt on the Invictus holds that it is the most comfortable AIWB holster extant. I'm personally just fine with the Shaggy.
Sherman A. House
06-21-10, 11:59
I LOVE the Invictus. It is just absolutely the most comfortable, and most concealable rig, FOR ME, that I have tried. I just wish his wait wasn't so long!
Glad you like your Invictus!
Mr. Garrity must have fallen off the face of the earth b/c I can no longer get any communication with him on the order I placed 4-5 months ago for 2 IWB's of his. Must be busy completing orders for his new holster design I guess....:confused:
Sherman A. House
06-21-10, 12:13
I think he is slow on the emails, as he is a one man operation. Call him, at the end of the work day, maybe?
dookie1481
06-21-10, 12:20
Glad you like your Invictus!
Mr. Garrity must have fallen off the face of the earth b/c I can no longer get any communication with him on the order I placed 4-5 months ago for 2 IWB's of his. Must be busy completing orders for his new holster design I guess....:confused:
I emailed him and he got back to me within an hour or two. He is a cop so he may be busy.
Jay
I think he is slow on the emails, as he is a one man operation. Call him, at the end of the work day, maybe?
I know, I dont mean to rag on the guy as he seems like a great person. We were working out details back and forth for a bit via e-mail and I have recently sent him a e-mail asking if he was still around and in production heaven forbid something happend to him. He is, I believe a full or part time LE in his state and as a result, I understand that time is valuable to him. I guess he will contact me when they are done, I might just have them replaced with something else by then and have no need for them.
Guess we'll see!:D
Sorry for all the off-topic banter.
Back on point, glad the Invictus is working. Saw it on his website and like his other work, looks beautiful. What pistol is it for, and do you have any pics of you wearing it to see ride hight and cant?
That thing is a lot of coin...
Just got my Shaggy and wore it all evening(cold) while doing chores and reloading 1K rounds.
Very comfortable and well made.
Will use a hot gun after a couple more days of wearing and practicing the draw.
6 foot 2 and 200 lbs
G36
I tucked my 17 in and a full size weapon is a "go" for my build and this type of rig.
Thanks Rich and Todd
Chris
Sherman A. House
06-22-10, 01:33
Here are some pics. Please pardon the shittiness of them...taken with a DROID.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1177/4723102577_89a9965219_b.jpg
Side view. BEAUTIFUL Cordovan shade leather. Double snap, single belt loop. Full sweat guard. He offers variants with no SG, reduced SG and this, the full.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1128/4723102787_d42a28e6c9_b.jpg
Backside. Muzzle end is suede facing the body. Helps with planting the rig, and also seems to absorb moisture and make the rig more comfortable.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1048/4723756002_e5cf720681_b.jpg
Wedge between the loop and the holster body. This, "bends," the gun into the gut meat, enhancing concealment.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1186/4723102699_2cefe560b5_b.jpg
The magic ravioli. A pad of foam, covered in leather, bends the slide into the wearer's belly, keeping the slide and grip pointed into the user, and again enhancing concealment. I think that the ravioli also keeps the 90 degree at the distal end of the rig from hitting the pubic bone, or the crease meat in the inner thigh, which, if you carry appendix ever, know exactly what I'm talking about.
I DIG this holster. I want one for every service gun I own. They aren't cheap, and the wait is long, but I think it is really worth it. The workmanship is TOP quality, and the rig is still fast on the draw, and snicks into place on reholstering. I am 100% satisfied with this rig.
Nice holster and nice pics, Sherman.... thanks for sharing them!
I'm looking to try AIWB with my Glock 26 sometime later this summer (currently running a 4:00 IWB).
I was considering ordering the holster for a G19, both to accommodate the larger pistol should I find I'm able to conceal it effectively, and also in the hopes that the added length of the holster would provide more leverage (since the G26 is so short) against my body for it to be able to twist the butt inwards.
Is this latter leverage unnecessary for a G26-sized Shaggy? I'm weighing against the possibility that the G19 holster length might also end up digging into me more, at the bottom. I'm 5'6"/145lbs, so there's not a lot of room for error below the beltline.
Thanks!
John_Wayne777
06-27-10, 14:04
I would buy for the G19. It won't dig into your side but it will provide better stability...plus you can carry either weapon with it.
I am using a G17 Shaggy to carry a G19 and it works perfectly. Doesn't dig in and I think it helps keep the grip from tipping out.
RAM Engineer
07-07-10, 22:03
Finally got my G19 Shaggy holster and...I don't think this form of carry is going to work for me at all. I tried big baggy shirts, I tried the holster more centerline and more towards my hip. Nothing I did prevented a big bulge in my front like I had a super hernia or a conjoined twin hiding under my clothes.
What am I doing wrong? I'm 5'11, 160# if that makes a difference.
I really wanted this to work, since IWB's tend to exacerbate my bad lower back.
Finally got my G19 Shaggy holster and...I don't think this form of carry is going to work for me at all. I tried big baggy shirts, I tried the holster more centerline and more towards my hip. Nothing I did prevented a big bulge in my front like I had a super hernia or a conjoined twin hiding under my clothes.
What am I doing wrong? I'm 5'11, 160# if that makes a difference.
I really wanted this to work, since IWB's tend to exacerbate my bad lower back.
I'd suggest taking a few pictures so that people can see what's happening with your holster position in reference to your body's physical characteristics and how you're wearing your clothes. I'm currently waiting on a Shaggy for my G19 as well.
RAM Engineer: as I have reported elsewhere in this thread, I found AIWB more "clothes -dependent" than conventional IWB. I get best results with higher sitting pants that are sized just right (accounting for holster). A bit too loose or low-rise pants don't work well. Just FYI...
Finally got my G19 Shaggy holster and...I don't think this form of carry is going to work for me at all. I tried big baggy shirts, I tried the holster more centerline and more towards my hip. Nothing I did prevented a big bulge in my front like I had a super hernia or a conjoined twin hiding under my clothes.
What am I doing wrong? I'm 5'11, 160# if that makes a difference.
I'm with you on this, I even tried buying some shorts a size larger to give some room to fit - no dice. The most comfortable if you can call it that it roughly between 1230 to 0100 from centerline. I personally concluded that some body types [mine] are not optimal for APDX carry - it can be done, but it's farggin uncomfortable. Maybe I've been going at it wrong....? Been using Milt Sparks & Raven/NB Kydex until and if it ever sorts out. 5'11 180# Athletic Build.
John_Wayne777
07-08-10, 06:48
Appendix carry takes some getting used to, folks. It took me a few weeks of experimentation to find exactly the right spot on my waistline. If you just received your holster and you're suffering severe consternation because it doesn't seem to feel as comfortable as strong side IWB, my best advice is to keep at it for a while. It'll probably get better.
Finally got my G19 Shaggy holster and...I don't think this form of carry is going to work for me at all. I tried big baggy shirts, I tried the holster more centerline and more towards my hip. Nothing I did prevented a big bulge in my front like I had a super hernia or a conjoined twin hiding under my clothes.
What am I doing wrong? I'm 5'11, 160# if that makes a difference.
I really wanted this to work, since IWB's tend to exacerbate my bad lower back.
Ram,
Which belt attachment did you go with? We can try a couple different appliances to see if some other configuration works better for you. And remember you have a 90 day satisfaction guarantee. We can try a different holster if the Shaggy just doesn't work for you.
Keep trying slightly different positions. A small move can be a big difference in this carry method. Give each try a couple hours at least.
Regards,
Rich
For me and my Shaggy, the leather loops work better the the closed kydex loop. I am 6' 2'', 200 ish, 34 waist, buying 36 pants for IWB/34 inseam. I wear a 44/46l jacket. having said that, I think the Looper has less profile than the Shaggy in general. I use a 21SF w the Shaggy, a Looper for a g34/35.
Bottom Line -Rich is a class act and will make it right!!!
I would note the following based upon my exper. carrying primarily AIWB for the last year:
1. You print less AIWB when you stand up straight
2. You print less when you chest to waist difference is bigger such that your cover garment has more drape i.e. I would print even less if I had a bigger chest and a smaller waist ( I need to do more push ups, better diet, crunches etc.)
3. You have to experiment untill you find the sweet spot
4. A quality belt is important i.e. Liger, 5 stich Wilderness, 2 ply leather gunbelt.
5. Offsetting you belt buckle from the center line reduces print
6. I suspect you are printing a lot more than you really are because you are looking down and know exactly where to look.
7. Presuming a permisive enviroment-concealed means concealed, it does not mean invisible to the trained eye at 1 meter.
8. Cover garment selection is key. My go to set up is a patterned/textured square bottom buttom up shirt over some type of wicking t-shirt or some type of logoed t shirt over a wicking "wife beater." I would also note that "sizing" on many shirts is wildly varying and what is marked an XL today fits like an L from 5+ years ago.
Best of luck. Do not give up on the concept too quickly.
Be safe and well,
David of vcdgrips.com
SmokeJumper
07-08-10, 16:30
Bottom Line -Rich is a class act and will make it right!!!
I would note the following based upon my exper. carrying primarily AIWB for the last year:
1. You print less AIWB when you stand up straight
2. You print less when you chest to waist difference is bigger such that you cover garment has more drape i.e. I would print even less if I had a bigger chest and a smaller waist ( I need to do more push ups, better diet, crunches etc.)
3. You have to experiment untill you find the sweet spot
4. A quality belt is important i.e. Liger, 5 stich Wilderness, 2 ply leather gunbelt.
5. Offsetting you belt buckle from the center line reduces print
6. I suspect you are printing a lot more than you really are because you are looking down and know exactly where to look.
7. Presuming a permisive enviroment-concealed means concealed, it does not mean invisible to the trained eye at 1 meter.
8. Cover garment selection is key. My go to set up is a patterned/textured square bottom buttom up shirt over some type of wicking t-shirt or some type of logoed t shirt over a wicking "wife beater." I would also note that "sizing" on many shirts is wildly varying and what is marked an XL today fits like an L from 5+ years ago.
Best of luck. Do not give up on the concept too quickly.
Be safe and well,
David of vcdgrips.com
I agree with David, you have to experiment and find your sweet spot. I've been using my Shaggy for 2.5 months now and finally have gotten used to it. Being used to leather IWB carry, I thought it was the kydex at first, hard and won't bend/mold like leather. It took a while and some pm's for advice from members and it is good to go for me now. It is possible on smaller waist/frames as well.
Also a good quality belt is a must. I first tried it with my SOE riggers belt and with the buckle and v-ring it printed horribly. But I switched to my Wilderness Instructor belt with a slight offset on the buckle on my pants/shorts it works like a charm with minimal to zero print. Keep playing with it, you'll work it out.
As an added bonus AIWB carry worked great for me over the 4th of July Holiday weekend. We attended a parade in the morning and the crowd was packed in tight on the street with people tucked right up behind us. I was glad my weapon was up front and not at 4-o'clock with people bumping in to each other and trying to get through the crowds.
I apologize, I did not read this entire thread, but I assume by appendix carry, it means IWB, at about 2 o'clock. I have been carrying this way for over a year now. Formerly, I carried IWB, SOB, which really was horrible in retrospect. I will say as a disclaimer, that the amount of time I carry is somewhat limited, as I cannot carry to work, so it is only when I leave the house for non-work purposes, otherwise the carry gun rides in the car with me.
Anyways, I am tall, but certainly not slim, and my GLOCK 23 easily dissappears under any untucked shirt that is not too tight, or too short. I actually have found that my beer belly helps hide it a bit ;).
Was a little uncomfortable at first, but no more so than any other new form of carry. Now that I am used to it, no worries at all about sitting, bending over, reaching, driving, etc. The only think I don't like is when driving, the seat belt makes it hard to reach the weapon.
For a holster, I currently am using a simple Bianchi belt clip leather setup like this:
http://www.ombexpress.com/images/product/250x250/LG044.jpg
RAM Engineer
07-08-10, 19:47
Ram,
Which belt attachment did you go with? We can try a couple different appliances to see if some other configuration works better for you. And remember you have a 90 day satisfaction guarantee. We can try a different holster if the Shaggy just doesn't work for you.
Keep trying slightly different positions. A small move can be a big difference in this carry method. Give each try a couple hours at least.
Regards,
Rich
Rich,
I got the solid Kydex loop. I'll keep trying and I'll see if I can get some pictures up by this weekend.
Just for the record, I in no way think there's an issue with the holster. It's probably a body shape issue and a lack of experience issue with this type of carry.
Dojpros mentioned that AIWB works best if you have a higher chest to waist ratio. My torso is relatively straight these days (getting older, desk job, etc. :( ). My waist and my chest have evened out!
I was trying the Shaggy with a two-ply leather gun belt. I also have a Liger belt, and although I WANT to like it, I find that it's too thin to properly fill the belt loops on most OWB holsters, allowing holster movement (really bad on dropped-offset holsters).
I wondered if it was just me being paranoid about printing, but my wife who normally can't tell when I'm carrying IWB said it was VERY obvious that I had something under my shirt.
thanks for all the tips guys. I won't give up yet!
SmokeJumper
07-20-10, 00:14
Just got a new AIWB rig in, it is the #4 IWB from Desbiens Gun Leather for the HK USP 45c, http://www.desbiensgunleather.com/index.html It is plain black, made with the rough out side facing out so it would be a bit more tacky for staying in place. It has a single belt loop with a one-way snap.
Took a few pics and compared it to the CCC Shaggy for Glock 19/23. So far, it's not a bad holster, well made and priced lower than the majority of custom leather holsters. Two things that stick out- the single belt loop seems to allow the gun/holster to shift a little either direction when seated and moving around throughout the day, second-the muzzle end is cut right at the muzzle end of the gun with no overlap or over mold to slightly cove the muzzle and cushion your leg when seated. If you have a Shaggy or other custom leather holster like Milt Sparks, you'll know what I'm talking about, that extra leather that goes over the muzzle and partially covers it, helps add a little more protection from the sharp edged muzzle of the weapon. I'm gonna keeping experimenting with it and ring it out at the range. When my Invictus arrives, we'll see how all three compare.
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad139/M4Shooters/DSCN02881.jpg
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad139/M4Shooters/DSCN02891.jpg
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad139/M4Shooters/DSCN02901.jpg
Gotta say that when it comes to appendix carry, or any IWB carry for that matter, the ability to VERY quickly and easily attach the holster to your gun belt and to remove it from your gun belt as quickly and easily is a major factor for me. I do not like sewn-in belt loops for this reason... for me, the clip-type attachment, so I can clip the holster on (with the gun inside it) very quickly, and remove it just as quickly and easily, is the best. For this reason, I really appreciate this type of set-up, as I can remove it or add it in little more than a moment...
http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Glocks/G30_AIWB_0162.jpg
Seems like getting Shaggy to Poland, while possible, is not easy (but probably sooner or later I'll get one anyway). So I decided to do some testing to know if AIWB is OK for me. For last years I almost exclusivelly use MTAC holster on 8o'clock position (I'm lefty) to carry my HK P2000 SK (and sometimes P30). I also lost some 50lbs this year and gun start to print when carried on "side".
Lat week I reconfigured MTAC clips to give almost no cant and started to carry my P2000SK on 11o'clock. Seems comfortable (unless I try to tie my shoelaces), and for sure it's concealable. I also made some range training to get ahold of new position.
From what I understand in this thread C-TAC 2:00 is a no-go, but I looked over new AIWb MTAC (neutral cant). I like that it's tuckable). Can anyone advice me on this holster? Getting something from US to Poland leaves all kind of "statisfaction guarantees" void (shippinng, duty and tax costs) so I need to choose right.
Also there is question of configuration - should I get AIWB MTAC with P30 body and use it for bouth P2000SK and P30 (worked good in my MTAC, but now I use P2000SK body) or get it with 2 bodies (changing them is pain!)?
I got my Shaggy on Sunday maybe Saturday....but I have been wearing it ever since. It is hella comfortable!! I think I have avoided the box 'o holsters!! Great product and Rich is a great guy to do business with!! Thanks again Rich!!
Question for others Shaggy or even Looper users. Have any of you used the standard clip? I need something that will allow me to tuck my shirt in (on the odd occasion I wear my shirt that way) will the standard clip allow for a tucked shirt w/out the clip being so obvious? I don't want another holster so respectfully please hold those kind of responses. Thanks guys
Question for others Shaggy or even Looper users. Have any of you used the standard clip? I need something that will allow me to tuck my shirt in (on the odd occasion I wear my shirt that way) will the standard clip allow for a tucked shirt w/out the clip being so obvious? I don't want another holster so respectfully please hold those kind of responses. Thanks guys
No, The standard clip is not tuckable on the Shaggy. I'd be willing to try to make a tuckable attachment for the Shaggy, but I am not sure that it would support the rig properly.
No, The standard clip is not tuckable on the Shaggy. I'd be willing to try to make a tuckable attachment for the Shaggy, but I am not sure that it would support the rig properly.
Roger.
I forgot you were on this forum. Thanks for the quick reply!!
Is anyone using the Shaggy to carry a s&w m&p compact? The consensus with the baby glocks seems to be to order the holster for a g19 sized gun to prevent the butt of the gun from flipping out. Is this true of the m&pc as well? Would it be better to order the full size version of the Shaggy? I was thinking that the smaller amount of material on the compact size holster would be more comfortable, but if it is going to flop around, then comfort is a moot point.
John_Wayne777
08-15-10, 09:45
Is anyone using the Shaggy to carry a s&w m&p compact? The consensus with the baby glocks seems to be to order the holster for a g19 sized gun to prevent the butt of the gun from flipping out. Is this true of the m&pc as well? Would it be better to order the full size version of the Shaggy? I was thinking that the smaller amount of material on the compact size holster would be more comfortable, but if it is going to flop around, then comfort is a moot point.
I carry my 9C in the Shaggy for the full-sized gun. All the reasons that apply to the G19 holster apply for the M&P series as well.
I'd like to give AIWB a trial run, but am faced with a bit of a catch 22: If I don't get a proper holster that works well, it's not a very good trial, but I really don't want to sink a small fortune and long wait into something to try out.
Coming late into the thread... can anyone recommend something that's good but still relatively easy to get one's hands on?
Since luvmy40 is here... what's the lead time like on a Shaggy these days?
I used a Blade tech IWB holster as an AIWB trainer with satisfactory results. Having said that, both the Looper and the Shaggy are a superior product for the AIWB application.
dookie1481
08-15-10, 23:14
I'd like to give AIWB a trial run, but am faced with a bit of a catch 22: If I don't get a proper holster that works well, it's not a very good trial, but I really don't want to sink a small fortune and long wait into something to try out.
Coming late into the thread... can anyone recommend something that's good but still relatively easy to get one's hands on?
Since luvmy40 is here... what's the lead time like on a Shaggy these days?
It won't be a very good trial run unless you give it a fair shot by getting a dedicated AIWB holster. I thought it was terrible when I tried it with a different holster.
Jay
It's looking like mid October as of today.
Since the sale ads tend to get buried quickly under the new posts I thought I'd let interested parties know that I'm selling a new Shaggy here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60523
Tennvol12345
08-29-10, 15:36
Luvmy40, can you PM me about my order. I tried a few times to reach you via email with no luck.
willowofwisp
08-29-10, 15:45
I would love to try AIWB carry once i cut off a few pounds, looks like a great way to conceal a gun versus the standard 3-4 position
Sherman A. House
08-29-10, 20:27
Added a Custom Carry Concepts, "Shaggy," for my G34 to my AIWB holster collection. I've made a couple of trips to the range with it.
Excellent rig. I see why it is so highly regarded here. It does an excellent job of turning the gun butt into the belly meat. VERY reasonably priced too.
Bulldog7972
08-29-10, 20:34
I've tossed all my "other" holsters. The Shaggy is the only one I use now. I had thought of keping a small clip on type holster for those quick trips to the store but decided that the Shaggy is so easy to put on and so concealable that I didn't need anything else. I carry my 239 in it. I'm thinking about ordering one for my 228 to see how a bigger gun carries in a Shaggy.
YammyMonkey
08-29-10, 21:09
I've used a few generations of the RCS ACS, a Looper & now a Shaggy for my full size M&P9. The Shaggy is definitely the most comfortable & conceales just as well as the original RCS holsters with the straight kydex body & strut that broke every few months.
The leather loops on the Shaggy don't provide as much support on the belt as I would like but swapping them for Bladetech rubber loops fixed that.
I'm very satisfied with the Shaggy. If only Rich could work up one for a WML all would be right in the world.:sarcastic:
I've used a few generations of the RCS ACS, a Looper & now a Shaggy for my full size M&P9. The Shaggy is definitely the most comfortable & conceales just as well as the original RCS holsters with the straight kydex body & strut that broke every few months.
The leather loops on the Shaggy don't provide as much support on the belt as I would like but swapping them for Bladetech rubber loops fixed that.
I'm very satisfied with the Shaggy. If only Rich could work up one for a WML all would be right in the world.:sarcastic:
What, exactly is the issue with the leather loops? If there is something that I can do with them to make a better product, please let me know. I initially purchased the loops. I am now making my own so I can make adjustments or even severe customization if needed.
You must excuse my ignorance, but what is a WML?
willowofwisp
08-31-10, 16:25
What, exactly is the issue with the leather loops? If there is something that I can do with them to make a better product, please let me know. I initially purchased the loops. I am now making my own so I can make adjustments or even severe customization if needed.
You must excuse my ignorance, but what is a WML?
WML is weapon mounted light
Cecil Burch
08-31-10, 18:23
What, exactly is the issue with the leather loops? If there is something that I can do with them to make a better product, please let me know. I initially purchased the loops. I am now making my own so I can make adjustments or even severe customization if needed.
You must excuse my ignorance, but what is a WML?
For myself, the loops are a little too wide. It makes them a little harder to adjust to position them in just the right place on my belt. Not that is can't be done, it's just that it takes extra work. Not enough to offset the comfort of the Shaggy, but it is the one thing that makes the holster a 9.5 rather than a 10 IMO.
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-10, 18:48
Due to the length and breadth of this thread I DID NOT read every page. With that out of the way, here is my query...
I have carred AIWB (12 o'clock) since day one after I received my CCW permit eight years ago.
I carry a G19 in an Uncle Mikes (soft) IWB holster as it is the minimalist holster I have found. I bought a Blade Tech once but it takes up to much room. For the most part my carry method is comfortable and most important accessable. However from time to time when I find myself sitting for a prolong period of time such as a movie theatre or a long car ride I find that the muzzle of my G19 will dig into the top inside of my right thigh and on occasion my left testitcal. Both of which are uncomfortable to say the least. On a side note I always wear an under shirt tucked in to act as a moisture barrier and prevent chaffing.
What holster is recommened for this application and to help prevent the muzzle digging into tissue? Also, is their a particular belt anyone is using that is getting better results than the rest? To date I have used a run of the mill leather belt but am thinking about going to a rigger's belt since my outer shirt is always untucked.
dookie1481
08-31-10, 19:46
Due to the length and breadth of this thread I DID NOT read every page. With that out of the way, here is my query...
I have carred AIWB (12 o'clock) since day one after I received my CCW permit eight years ago.
I carry a G19 in an Uncle Mikes (soft) IWB holster as it is the minimalist holster I have found. I bought a Blade Tech once but it takes up to much room. For the most part my carry method is comfortable and most important accessable. However from time to time when I find myself sitting for a prolong period of time such as a movie theatre or a long car ride I find that the muzzle of my G19 will dig into the top inside of my right thigh and on occasion my left testitcal. Both of which are uncomfortable to say the least. On a side note I always wear an under shirt tucked in to act as a moisture barrier and prevent chaffing.
What holster is recommened for this application and to help prevent the muzzle digging into tissue? Also, is their a particular belt anyone is using that is getting better results than the rest? To date I have used a run of the mill leather belt but am thinking about going to a rigger's belt since my outer shirt is always untucked.
Unless you change the position of the holster it's going to dig at times. Unless you choose leather, that is. I've just learned to live with it.
I use a Wilderness Instructor's belt. I prefer rigger's belts because you aren't limited to pre-set holes. Sometimes the increments are just too big (or small) with a leather belt. The rigger's belt allows you to adjust it just how you want it.
Jay
WML is weapon mounted light
DOH!
I should have been able to figure that one out!
For myself, the loops are a little too wide. It makes them a little harder to adjust to position them in just the right place on my belt. Not that is can't be done, it's just that it takes extra work. Not enough to offset the comfort of the Shaggy, but it is the one thing that makes the holster a 9.5 rather than a 10 IMO.
This is one reason why I decided to start making the loops myself. Mine are just a bit narrower to allow for just enough space between to span a belt loop. The other reason was that my supplier was out of stock for 2 months!
Any other suggestions?
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-10, 21:11
Unless you change the position of the holster it's going to dig at times. Unless you choose leather, that is. I've just learned to live with it.
I use a Wilderness Instructor's belt. I prefer rigger's belts because you aren't limited to pre-set holes. Sometimes the increments are just too big (or small) with a leather belt. The rigger's belt allows you to adjust it just how you want it.
Jay
That's what I gather too from reading this thead, that I need to go leather for comfort.
Good point about the Rigger's belt being a little more user friendly in the adjustment.
Now which leather holsters are better for AIWB than others? Shaggy?
It's been said before but...is there any way to comfortably AIWB with a gun with a light mounted?
SmokeJumper
09-11-10, 00:06
It's been said before but...is there any way to comfortably AIWB with a gun with a light mounted?
I'm inclined to say No, personal opinion of course, just because you'd be putting a larger mass into an area that works best with a very slim profile holster for just that sweet spot that one has to comfortably carry AIWB. What say the others?
I really don't think it is feasible. I occasionally carry light-mounted G19 in conventional IWB and even that is challening and requires few adjustments. With AIWB I find that one inch can make a difference between reasonable comfort and pain even when carrying slim pistols like 1911 or P7.
As I'm a fan of having a gun mounted light on my weapon, looks like I'll either have to stick with my normal RCS at 3:30 or start practicing using my secondary flashlight from my pocket. Thanks for the info.
Has anybody been in touch with Rich recently? I sent him an email over a week ago; wondering if he is out of town or my email got spammed...
John_Wayne777
09-13-10, 13:12
Last commo I got from Rich:
We appreciate everyone's patience as Rich works through the current backlog of orders. Rich takes great pride in his work, so you can be assured that we will not sacrifice quality in the interest of getting the orders out. I'm personally helping out as much as I can in the shop, but this remains a one man custom shop.
Your order won't be charged until work is begun and you should receive an email when this occurs.
Do keep in mind that the projected ship dates are estimates and we will make every attempt to get the orders out sooner.
The current ship dates are as follows:
For Orders numbered estimated shipping
2151 to 2163 Late September
2164 to 2173 End of September
2174 to 2187 Beginning of October
2188 to 2201 Mid October
2202 to 2223 Late October
2224 to 2241 End of October
2242 to 2259 Beginning of November
2260 to 2270 Mid November
...so it looks as if he's kinda busy. That may be why e-mail responses aren't exactly forthcoming.
TwoSqueeze
09-13-10, 13:14
Try calling or just shoot him another email. It may have went to his spam box or he just may have not gotten to it yet. He is a one man shop and get inandated with emails but I know they are hard at work. I got a blanket email that was sent out to all of his customers about a week and a half ago with order # updates.
-TS
Last commo I got from Rich:
...so it looks as if he's kinda busy. That may be why e-mail responses aren't exactly forthcoming.
Yep, that's why I waited a week. Knowing how busy he is, i didnt want to bombard him with repeat emails. Mine has to do with holster I've just received. Thanks for reply anyway, JW777, I'll wait a bit more.
Yep, that's why I waited a week. Knowing how busy he is, i didnt want to bombard him with repeat emails. Mine has to do with holster I've just received. Thanks for reply anyway, JW777, I'll wait a bit more.
YVK,
Did we ever make contact?(I can't put real name to the forum handle) I tried PMing but did not get a response. I really don't mean to ignore anyone but sometimes the emails just get out of hand and I end up missing a reply.
Rich
A
YVK,
Did we ever make contact?(I can't put real name to the forum handle) I tried PMing but did not get a response. I really don't mean to ignore anyone but sometimes the emails just get out of hand and I end up missing a reply.
Rich
Rich, we certainly did, although I didn't get pm; looper is on my side as we speak. Very nice, comfortable, discrete - I am at a party and nobody has a clue.
Everybody else: how's this for CS - two holsters adjusted, custom part made, with door-to-door turnaround in one week. Thanks, Rich!
Gents,
I'm new here but have been following this thread and ToddG's blog for some time. Due to the lengthy backlog I tried to find a suitable holster mass-produced I could substitute until ordering a shaggy or looper.
Last Friday I got one in the mail I'm very (so far) satisfied with. The Safariland Model 18. Snap loops, kydex covered with suede for comfort and the snaps can be rotated from an appendix cant to straight drop with an allen wrench.
I use Safariland for all my duty / SWAT holsters and this one seems to be built to the same high-quality standard.
http://www.USAHolsters.com/Safariland-Model-18-IWB-Holster-Right-Hand?category_id=1
Just an FYI for some guys willing to try. I know an earlier poster mentioned the model 27, but I don't care for the J-Hook style, I've found loops more secure when grappling with dry gun.
EM
Gents,
I'm new here but have been following this thread and ToddG's blog for some time. Due to the lengthy backlog I tried to find a suitable holster mass-produced I could substitute until ordering a shaggy or looper.
Last Friday I got one in the mail I'm very (so far) satisfied with. The Safariland Model 18. Snap loops, kydex covered with suede for comfort and the snaps can be rotated from an appendix cant to straight drop with an allen wrench.
I use Safariland for all my duty / SWAT holsters and this one seems to be built to the same high-quality standard.
http://www.USAHolsters.com/Safariland-Model-18-IWB-Holster-Right-Hand?category_id=1
Just an FYI for some guys willing to try. I know an earlier poster mentioned the model 27, but I don't care for the J-Hook style, I've found loops more secure when grappling with dry gun.
EM
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1753/2frontblack1.jpg
I've been wearing it for dry practice straight drop and been sitting around the house, etc. in it. They can dig in but I just adjusted the position a little and it no longer bothered me.
And that's the important thing, that it works for you.
Anyone notice that Todd has been banned?
Anyone notice that Todd has been banned?
I noticed.
thebriarman
10-04-10, 13:37
Dookie1481, does the Wilderness belt give you enough rigidity and support for carrying? I know a lot of folks are on the side of the quality leather belts that are quite thick/rigid because of the support they offer. Then, the other side love the Wilderness type belts. My guess is for the IWB carry, the Wilderness would be fine and the lack of holes makes a ton of sense.
Also, what leather holsters were you referring to? I'm looking to move the the AIWB carry for a G23/G27, Kahr PM9, and I'm looking for all the input I can get. That Safariland 18 looks interesting because of the Kydex.
Thanks!
SmokeJumper
10-04-10, 13:40
I noticed.
I did as well, tried to send him a PM for some questions and it was a no go.
Anyone notice that Todd has been banned?
Todd's absence is notable and is a loss to this site. However, discussing this here would lead to nowhere good since we're neither privvy to details of fallout nor it is our business nor it has much to do with thread's content.
dookie1481
10-04-10, 16:00
Dookie1481, does the Wilderness belt give you enough rigidity and support for carrying? I know a lot of folks are on the side of the quality leather belts that are quite thick/rigid because of the support they offer. Then, the other side love the Wilderness type belts. My guess is for the IWB carry, the Wilderness would be fine and the lack of holes makes a ton of sense.
Also, what leather holsters were you referring to? I'm looking to move the the AIWB carry for a G23/G27, Kahr PM9, and I'm looking for all the input I can get. That Safariland 18 looks interesting because of the Kydex.
Thanks!
Yes, they are very rigid IMO. Not as much as a good leather belt, but rigid enough for me.
Jay
Dookie1481, does the Wilderness belt give you enough rigidity and support for carrying? I know a lot of folks are on the side of the quality leather belts that are quite thick/rigid because of the support they offer. Then, the other side love the Wilderness type belts. My guess is for the IWB carry, the Wilderness would be fine and the lack of holes makes a ton of sense.
Also, what leather holsters were you referring to? I'm looking to move the the AIWB carry for a G23/G27, Kahr PM9, and I'm looking for all the input I can get. That Safariland 18 looks interesting because of the Kydex.
Thanks!
I've used both for over 10 years: several different Wilderness belts and a Milt Sparks. I think they work equally well, the Sparks just looks a helluva lot better and not quite so Tactical Ted.
The coyote Wilderness does a pretty good job of blending with jeans, too, though, and if you're armed the odds are no one is seeing the belt, anyway.
The Wilderness is a lot cheaper, too, so it gets my vote most of the time.
Anyone notice that Todd has been banned?
It says guest, but WTF?
Last Friday I got one in the mail I'm very (so far) satisfied with. The Safariland Model 18. Snap loops, kydex covered with suede for comfort and the snaps can be rotated from an appendix cant to straight drop with an allen wrench.
EM
What size are the belt loops on that holster? I generally wear 1 3/4" belts and often have a hard time finding anything but holsters for 1 1/2" belts.
First post here.
I've been using appendix carry for over 20 yrs. Works great for me with pistols that have 3-3/4" or shorter barrels. I'm a big fan of F.I.S.T. holsters and belts.
My 2 cents.
Todd's absence is notable and is a loss to this site. However, discussing this here would lead to nowhere good since we're neither privvy to details of fallout nor it is our business nor it has much to do with thread's content.
+1
Perfect response!
What size are the belt loops on that holster? I generally wear 1 3/4" belts and often have a hard time finding anything but holsters for 1 1/2" belts.
It fits up to 1 1/2" belts.
Bulldog7972
10-05-10, 08:39
First post here.
I've been using appendix carry for over 20 yrs. Works great for me with pistols that have 3-3/4" or shorter barrels. I'm a big fan of F.I.S.T. holsters and belts.
My 2 cents.
I'll bite. Which FIST holsters do you like for AIWB?
jonconsiglio
10-05-10, 17:09
I've carried at close to the 3:30 or 4 o'clock position for the past 7 or 8 years, mostly inside the waistband and with a 15º cant. This year, when I switched from primarily carrying 1911's to my 9mm's (Glock 17 & M&P9 mostly), I also started carrying mostly outside the waistband at the 3 o'clock position or just in front of it in straight drop - or nearly straight drop - holsters. I've found that my draw is a little faster and seems to be more consistent as well.
I've tried carrying at the appendix position a few times, but was never able to give it much of a chance. I pretty much only carry full size guns and whether it was due to the gun or not using the best holster, I could never sit comfortably for very long. Also, having the muzzle digging into that area was intimidating. I know as long as I keep my finger off of the trigger, I should never have a discharge, whether I'm carrying a striker fired gun or 1911, but I was MUCH more aware of the muzzle when in that position.
I know that with anything, one can get used to it with training. I know from experience that, for me, I'm quicker from a holster at 3 o'clock or forward of it.
I'll bite. Which FIST holsters do you like for AIWB?
I'm not Bulldog, but I've been using a FIST #1. It had an FBI cant but I removed the stitched clip and glued it in a straight drop position after I heated it up with a heat gun to mold it to the holster. It's the thin kydex model. If I were to buy a new one, I'd buy the same model with Velcro clip that can be moved for an optimum carry spot
Bulldog7972,
I use the F.I.S.T. thin Kydex IWB. It's a simple belt-clip design. I use it 4-5 times a week. I alternate between that and their Driving to Crossdraw holster. Also in Kydex. There is a video of that one on their website.
I also have their 1-1/4" belt with the internal stiffener.
Great products,fair prices.
My 2 cents.
My wife uses a FIST #1KB, which is the same as the #1 in kydex, but has the clip mounted with velcro. The velcro allows the wearer to set the height and cant to suit their personal preferences. She wears hers appendix-crossdraw and says it works great for her.
I've just ordered one for myself for appendix carry, although I doubt if I will use it crossdraw as that just doesn't conceal well for me (of course, my wife and I are built somewhat differently).
Dave Williams
10-18-10, 08:22
Just completed an out of state trip with a Gen4 G22 in the same Safariland 27 AIWB was using at the start of this thread, sitting in a cramped Subaru back seat. I concealed under a t shirt, no problem.
The Safariland 27 is available and inexpensive if you want to try AIWB and don't want one of the custom holster's price and wait times. It is Safarilaminate so it's comfortable against your skin, has an adjustable cant J hook, reinforced holster mouth so you can reholster easy, is available for a lot of different guns, and did I mention it is available and you can actually purchase it and use it?:D
Dave Williams
I just put my AIWB rig (HK P30 MTAC neutral cant with HK P2000SK in it) trough very extreme test - wedding in polish mountains. Dancing, jumping, dancing "snake" or "circle" with other people, etc. I had it tucked-in wearing a suit. For all time it was comfortable, I had full control and confidence where gun sits and what happen to it. Plus my GF said that even in close dance she knew that it's here, only because she knew it's there. Other girls probably tough that it's just or cellphone ... or token of my appreciation to their beauty... :big_boss:
I was also driving compact car of my GF 7 hours each way - full comfort.
AIWB is way to go. Previously I was always little worry that my carry prints or is accessible to other people - now I have full confidence with AIWB.
I started carrying off duty AIWB in a Dale Fricke Archangel holster. It's molded for my G19, buy since that is set up for HD under the bed, my OD G26 rides in it perfectly. It's good to have options....:D
Completed a 660 miles trip with 5 inch 1911 in AIWB (Shaggy), as well as one day of handgun training with it. I wouldn't say it was particularly more comfortable to drive with than conventional IWB, but advantages were obvious. No issues during training.
On a separate note I've heard an unverified account of a student shooting himself during training recently while reholstering into AIWB. Anybody heard anything?
I have been carrying AIWB the past few months and I prefer it because it is ideal for my body type, it is also quicker for me. However it is not ideal with the crossbreed holster I have been using. I want to order one of the shaggy holsters you guys seem to love. Just one question, kydex belt loop, leather snaps, or the standard clip and why? I want to ask before I order. Thanks in advance!
I put in an order for my Shaggy a month or so ago, from what I read of what others are running...they are using the belt loop with the leather backing. I look forward to training AIWB.
I have not used the "Shaggy", but based on my experience with other holsters:
The belt loop will be the most secure, but is inconvenient if you need to remove and replace your holster during the day.
The clip is the most convenient "easy on, easy off", but is the least secure.
The loops fall somewhere between the other two options.
Everything is a compromise; you have to decide what best serves your particular circumstances.
Bulldog7972
11-02-10, 08:13
I have been carrying AIWB the past few months and I prefer it because it is ideal for my body type, it is also quicker for me. However it is not ideal with the crossbreed holster I have been using. I want to order one of the shaggy holsters you guys seem to love. Just one question, kydex belt loop, leather snaps, or the standard clip and why? I want to ask before I order. Thanks in advance!
It's not a big deal to loosen your belt and run it through the loop when you are removing or donning the Shaggy. You will after all be carrying the rig almost centerline. I've had othe AIWB holsters with various means of attachment. IMHO the kydex loop is the best. Most seccure and not hard at all to use. I highly recommend it.
Thanks guys! I carry a SA Champion 1911 which is the 4" barrel. Would I be ok to order the shaggy set up for the colt commander which is the 4.25" barrel?
It's not a big deal to loosen your belt and run it through the loop when you are removing or donning the Shaggy. You will after all be carrying the rig almost centerline. I've had othe AIWB holsters with various means of attachment. IMHO the kydex loop is the best. Most seccure and not hard at all to use. I highly recommend it.
For me, it is a big deal (I should have mentioned that I am left-handed). I know I could reverse the way I wear my belt, and I have tried that, but at my age (I'm an old f*rt), I just haven't been able to get used to it.
Forgetfull
11-07-10, 22:39
Does anyone know the approx order numbers CCC is on? I ordered a shaggy back in September or so and am just curious since I was told end of Nov. I'm excited to try it out once I get some free time in December.
John_Wayne777
11-08-10, 07:04
I was wondering how Rich was doing myself. I placed and order in August. I'm guessing he's just been really busy.
I was wondering how Rich was doing myself. I placed and order in August. I'm guessing he's just been really busy.
Same time frame here, and based on the last update email my order number would be shipping about now. Maybe Rich will see this and update us. The last thing I want to do is bombard the busy fellow with emails or phone calls.
Forgetfull
11-08-10, 13:11
Same time frame here, and based on the last update email my order number would be shipping about now. Maybe Rich will see this and update us. The last thing I want to do is bombard the busy fellow with emails or phone calls.
That's exactly what I was thinking. 2-3 update phone calls/emails a day adds a lot of wasted time over a few months.
When did you guys order your holsters in August?
Tennvol12345
11-08-10, 20:15
Does anyone know the approx order numbers CCC is on? I ordered a shaggy back in September or so and am just curious since I was told end of Nov. I'm excited to try it out once I get some free time in December.
It's nowhere close to the end of Nov. Relax...your holster will come.
urbanamish
11-08-10, 20:18
Feedback on schedule for the Rich's holsters.... I ordered mine late July (7/26). Order 2199. My CC was charged last week, so I figure he's working on it now. Looking forward to trying it out.
Hope that helps some of you get a feel for where the schedule's at.
Cheers,
Patrick
Thanks for the update Patrick. I'm 100 or so orders after you...I guess I'll be getting my holster next year :cool:
I just wanted to say, I had a fantastic experiance with Rich at CCC when I ordered a Shaggy.
I called up, talked to him, he had a custom one made for a guy that never paid for it, <5 degree forward cant> and I had it in my mailbox 2 days later.
I have worn it since, it beats the hell out of the bianchi I had been using, and by far the best holster for AIWB I have ever used.
I learned about it on this thread, the practical knowledge on this forum has been invaluable to me, I am primarily a competition shooter so things like AIWB and such are new ground.
So thanks, and ... first post! :p
I just wanted to say, I had a fantastic experiance with Rich at CCC when I ordered a Shaggy.
I called up, talked to him, he had a custom one made for a guy that never paid for it, <5 degree forward cant> and I had it in my mailbox 2 days later.
I have worn it since, it beats the hell out of the bianchi I had been using, and by far the best holster for AIWB I have ever used.
I learned about it on this thread, the practical knowledge on this forum has been invaluable to me, I am primarily a competition shooter so things like AIWB and such are new ground.
So thanks, and ... first post! :p
Oh boy! I bet you just made alot of people curse out loud with your first post. :sarcastic:
Rich at CCC is an awesome guy, who runs a top of the line business.
I needed the sight channel size increased on some of my holsters. I sent it out to him, he had it back to me in 3 days and he paid for return shipping.
PJ
I appendix carry IWB about 95% of the time. I am 5'-9"/170 lbs. I never got comfortable carrying at the 4 o'clock position because I always felt like I was printing badly or it was uncomfortable while driving. Not to mention hard to access in a pinch in the car.
AIWB simply works best for me. Speed of presentation, comfort, on/off convenience, etc. Are optimum for me.
I don't use an appendix specific holster. But it worked out to be perfect for my application. The don Hume h715 is a gun specific molded leather holster with zero cant and a strong metal clip. I know for certain the trigger housing is securely enclosed, and the mouth of the holster is reinforced for easier reholstering. Best of all is the price! $35 on average. Handling them in person you would think they cost a lot more. I now have one for all my subcompacts. Here are a few.
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae253/JFLOINDUSTRIES/039fe93a.jpg
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae253/JFLOINDUSTRIES/3ba79c49.jpg
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae253/JFLOINDUSTRIES/64017d48.jpg
You have had much better luck than me with the 715.
Not enough tension from the clip, holster comes out with the gun every time I draw it.
You have had much better luck than me with the 715.
Not enough tension from the clip, holster comes out with the gun every time I draw it.
The Highnoon Public Secret (http://www.highnoonholsters.com/Product_Line/Public_Secret_w_clip/public_secret_w_clip.html) has a much better "C" clip design.
The H715 MSO with thre leather snap loops would be a better option if pricepoint was really driving the train. Having said that, the CCC Shaggy is head and shoulders ahead or any non specific AIWB holster given how its wedged holster mouth helps push the butt of the gun tighter against the body.
the CCC Shaggy is head and shoulders ahead or any non specific AIWB holster given how its wedged holster mouth helps push the butt of the gun tighter against the body.
That depends on your body style, carry position, gun and other variables.
I don't like the way the Shaggy fits, the gun butt digs into my hip bone and the bottom of my rib cage.
I prefer the Fricke Archangel for my P2000, P2Ksk, Glock 17 and 19.
But then I prefer the Highnoon for my Glock 26.
AIWB is an extremely personal thing.
While there are holsters that are consistently better for AIWB, none of them are the final word for everyone.
Point very well taken re body type/platform. For me at 6' 2'' 210ish, 34/36 waist, 46L jacket, the Looper before and the Shaggy now work well with a full sized Glock.
IMHOAE ( in my humble opinion and experience) , a purpose designed AIWB holster is going to be superior to a metal clipped basic IWB, particularly if you start doing multiple presentations at speed in any type of training enviroment.
I have now tried several different holsters for AIWB with mixed results:
Fist #1KB kydex - This holster is mounted on a clip which is attached to the holster by velcro. This allows the wearer to infinitely adjust carry height and cant. Works very well with a J frame revolver. Have not tried one with anything else. Only negative: as received from Fist, could not draw; the tension was too tight. Had to remold it in the oven.
Tucker Silent Thunder - Fits comfortably, and stays on the belt. Has both cant and height adjustments. Clip allows holster to "rock" (change cant) on belt, and when it rocks so that the butt is angled downward, it my cover is blown (butt protrudes noticeably)!
Don Hume H715-S.O.O.T - Straight drop leather holster held to belt by two leather snap loops. Very inexpensive. Works very well except that it rides too low and I can not get a full combat grip to draw the gun.
Remora - This holster has no clip or straps. It is held in place by a rubber-like coating on the outside of the holster. Surprisingly, it works very well. I bought the reinforced mouth version for easier re-holstering. If you try to wear it too high though, the reinforcement will cause the holster to ride up slightly during your normal activities. So far, this has not been a serious problem, but I am still on the fence about this one.
AKJ/Concealco - I had a couple of these holsters (leather, secured with two snap loops) that I had used for strong side carry, but they have a (limited) capability to adjust the cant. I set them at straight drop and tried them with two different pistols, an FNP-9 and an S&W 6906 (neither particularly small). They are the most comfortable and concealable AIWB holsters I have found to date. In fact, I just ordered another one for my Ruger P345.
For anyone else thinking of AIWB carry, look at holsters you already have; you may find a gem in there somewhere!
Bulldog7972
12-03-10, 09:52
Point very well taken re body type/platform. For me at 6' 2'' 210ish, 34/36 waist, 46L jacket, the Looper before and the Shaggy now work well with a full sized Glock.
IMHOAE ( in my humble opinion and experience) , a purpose designed AIWB holster is going to be superior to a metal clipped basic IWB, particularly if you start doing multiple presentations at speed in any type of training enviroment.
I dunno, I have a FIST # 1k that is plastic with a metal clip that I have had for at least three years now. While not as good as my Shaggy, it is pretty darn close. If I couldn't own a Shaggy, the FIST 1K would be my only holster. Easy on,easy off when I WANT it to come off unlike some of the other disasters I've owned (read 2:00).
Has anyone had experience with the "Appendix Carry Rig" by Cane and Derby?
Has anyone had experience with the "Appendix Carry Rig" by Cane and Derby?
I just got one last night to try it during the Central Fl Tactical Conference. Wore it for the 5 hour drive to the hotel and today on the first day of the class and was really impressed. It's the most comfortable appendix rig I've tried and disappears with jeans and a t-shirt.
I run it with a g19 and I'm average build with a gut. I'll work on a review when I get back in town. I have some video of today but all of it is from the back so you don't really see the gear.
Btw, I sold all my raven gear and have replaced it with Cane and Derby gear. They make real good shit!
I just got one last night to try it during the Central Fl Tactical Conference. Wore it for the 5 hour drive to the hotel and today on the first day of the class and was really impressed. It's the most comfortable appendix rig I've tried and disappears with jeans and a t-shirt.
I run it with a g19 and I'm average build with a gut. I'll work on a review when I get back in town. I have some video of today but all of it is from the back so you don't really see the gear.
Btw, I sold all my raven gear and have replaced it with Cane and Derby gear. They make real good shit!
Based on your comments, I decided to give it a try. I ordered one early yesterday morning for my M&P .45. Around Noon, I got a call from Cane & Derby (on Sunday!) to alert me that the Coyote Brown (the color I ordered) was a thicker kydex than their other colors and might not be the most suitable for an AIWB rig. I agreed to change the color preference to "Chocolate Brown" (I just didn't want black since every other kydex holster I own is black). I was told that they would build the holster this week and probably ship on Saturday. Now that is some fast service! Once I've put it through its paces, I also will post a review.
I just got one last night to try it during the Central Fl Tactical Conference. Wore it for the 5 hour drive to the hotel and today on the first day of the class and was really impressed. It's the most comfortable appendix rig I've tried and disappears with jeans and a t-shirt.
I run it with a g19 and I'm average build with a gut. I'll work on a review when I get back in town. I have some video of today but all of it is from the back so you don't really see the gear.
Btw, I sold all my raven gear and have replaced it with Cane and Derby gear. They make real good shit!
Any chance we could get some pictures with the holster on? I'd like to see the ride height and how well it pulls the butt of the gun into the stomach.
Based on your comments, I decided to give it a try. I ordered one early yesterday morning for my M&P .45. Around Noon, I got a call from Cane & Derby (on Sunday!) to alert me that the Coyote Brown (the color I ordered) was a thicker kydex than their other colors and might not be the most suitable for an AIWB rig. I agreed to change the color preference to "Chocolate Brown" (I just didn't want black since every other kydex holster I own is black). I was told that they would build the holster this week and probably ship on Saturday. Now that is some fast service! Once I've put it through its paces, I also will post a review.
That's amazing because I also placed an order for a Coyote brown appendix rig and got the same call (on a Sunday). I have to say if the holsters are anywhere near as good as the customer service, we may be on to something here. The CS rep told me that my holster would begin production Thursday and be shipped out Saturday. After hearing this I contacted Raven Concealment and canceled my order which I wouldn't get until June or July anyway. I am in the process of adding to my order with CDI equivalent products to replace the ones from Raven. I will post my impressions once everything shows up. So far I'm pretty impressed.
So when I first started carrying years ago, I was all about appendix carry... but due to shitty holster after shitty holster, I switched to 4:00 and the incredible Crossbreed Supertuck. At the time I was also carrying a fullsize M1911.
nowadays, I tend to carry a 4" 1911 and will be getting a Glock30 fairly soon, and im somewhat interested in re-evaluating appendix carry. I've read alot of this thread, and I wanted to ask if anyone has ever tried this holster for Appendix carry:
http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/Holsters/IWBInsideWaistBand/tabid/56/CategoryID/1/List/0/Level/1/ProductID/5/Default.aspx?SortField=UnitCost+DESC%2cProductName
Any info would be great, thanks!
Woodlark- did you get your CDI holster yet? Still waiting on mine :(
Nope, still waiting on mine too.
I got an email from Ian over the weekend that they had equipment problems last Thursday and expected to ship Tuesday or Wednesday. Haven't heard anything since then.
I hope this is not a bad sign! :confused:
Spoke too soon! Right after I posted, I received an email apologizing for the delay (another equipment failure) and offering me a free mag carrier to make up for the delay.
Maybe this is a good sign. :)
Tennvol12345
03-07-11, 19:24
Still waiting for my cane and derby appendix holster that I ordered a few weeks ago.
I actually have a Prototype CDI Appendix Rig that I am running....at the 3 O Clock....
I've been searching for a suitable appendix rig for years and have not been able to find one that I am comfortable enough wearing in the appendix position. I absolutely do not like non adjustable AIWB holsters. Everyone has a different body type, and adjustability allows the end user to adjust the holster to his/her body type. Previously, the closest holster that made hours of carrying my Glock 19s AIWB remotely bearable for my body type was a CompTac CTAC that I adjusted for AIWB. The CTAC however has a pretty wide footprint and the leather wings were not very rigid, which made stability less than optimal for that position imo.
I have used the CDI holster for about a week in the appendix position. It was the most bearable appendix holster I have used (the last ones I have tried were a Raven and one from Alabama Holsters). With that said, because of a medical related issue (some AIWB holsters are excruciatingly painful for me to use, especially single clip designs) and my body structure, appendix isn't really for me. The CDI Appendix rigs adjustability actually allowed me to carry it like a standard non Appendix rig. The CDI Appendix Rig with rubber loops has actually grown to be my favorite IWB rig at the 3 O Clock position, and I carry my Gen 4 Glock 19 there every day. The holster rides VERY close to the body (more so than my old daily use Ravens with IWB attachments) at the perfect position for me to have fast consistent draws from concealment. The smaller footprint provides more flexibility in positioning as well.
If the rig doesn't work in the Appendix position for you, at least you can use it like a standard IWB holster.
Thanks Matt, for your comments. You make me look forward to my CDI appendix holster even more. Luckily, I am able to wear in appendix position at about 11:00 (left-handed). I have a couple of holsters now that work quite well, Tucker "Silent Thunder" (but its single clip allows it to move a little more than I like) and the AKJ/Concealco ambidextrous iwb. Neither one fits the new M&P though so I needed something new and decided to give the CDI a try.
Got an email yesterday that they have shipped my holster.
I received my Cane and Derby Appendix holster yesterday. When I have worn it more and for extended periods, I will post a more complete review. However, I thought I would go ahead and give you my initial reactions.
Appearance- Appearance is not a big deal since this is a "concealed" holster, but it reflects overall workmanship. The molding is nice and crisp, and edges are smoothly finished.
Fit-Retention of the gun is perfect. Not too tight, not to loose. Being kydex, there is an audible click when the gun is inserted or withdrawn.
Concealability-Outstanding! The gun is held tightly against my side and disappears completely under a sweatshirt.
Comfort-I've only worn it a short time, but it appears to be very comfortable.
I thought I had one gripe. The gun rode too low for me to easily get a combat grip; the spacing between the gun butt and my belt was tight for my fingers. Looking a second time, I realized that there were additional holes for attaching the loops. Using the second set of holes raised it up to a perfect location for a nice clean draw.
I know some people don't like rubber belt loops (Blade-Tech), but I do. They seem to grip the belt better than leather (both are better than clips).
All in all, I think I am going to like this holster.
Woodlark, it sounds really good!
Ian called me yesterday and and let me know that my rigs (I ordered a Pardus too) should ship today or tomorrow. They are waiting on some hardware that should have arrived on Monday. You could tell in his voice that he was really disappointed that he couldn't ship my stuff any faster and he did offer to make it up to me with the same that they offered you. I really can't wait to get my gear!
Any way you could post a picture of the holster and one with you carrying? The website pictures are kind of lacking...
Can anyone comment how much the Cane and Darby pushes the butt of the gun into the body like the construction of the Invictus/Looper/Shaggy.
Thanks
I have no experience with the looper or shaggy, but the Cane and Derby definitely holds the butt in tight.
I'll try to get some pictures taken tomorrow afternoon.
I think I have decided to order the Cane & Derby for my G23. Any recommendations as far as going with that size or should I go with a 17/22 size? Seems like I have seen some recommendations as to using a 19 size for a 26 due to it keeping the pistols position more stable, etc, for some appendix rigs.
I think I have decided to order the Cane & Derby for my G23. Any recommendations as far as going with that size or should I go with a 17/22 size? Seems like I have seen some recommendations as to using a 19 size for a 26 due to it keeping the pistols position more stable, etc, for some appendix rigs.
In my opinion, the longer holster will help keep the grip frame pushed against your side and help alleviate the tipping sensation you get with a shorter barreled gun.
Following on that then, my duty gun is G35. Would getting the holster sized for it be wise so I could use either or would the 35 size be too much of a good thing?
Tennvol12345
03-13-11, 20:02
In my opinion, the longer holster will help keep the grip frame pushed against your side and help alleviate the tipping sensation you get with a shorter barreled gun.
Yep, order for a longer gun and it will help it from falling out, plus after you AIWB may find out that you can carry a bigger gun.
I started out with a MP9C and quickly found out AIWB let me easily carry a MP9FS. More rounds, longer sight radius, same concealbility,
The G35 is a HUGE gun.
How tall are you?
I think a lot of people are missing an important point. Appendix carry may make any gun disappear if you've got a good holster but you will sacrifice mobility and comfort if there is too much gun in your pants. The reverse is true in that if the gun is too far out of your pants you will not be able to bend at the waist.
There is a fine balance to be maintained. I really do believe that the G19 is the PERFECT sized gun for appendix carry with the P30 followed very closely behind it due to its 3.86 inch barrel.
I personally carry a 9c in a full size appendix rig.
Tennvol12345
03-13-11, 20:40
Im 5 5 tall, or short that is.
To me AIWB is by and far the most comfortable carry method I've run across. I will say that the holster and belt selection are much more critical than any other method. Also the position of the holster can make a huge difference, even as little as 0.25 of a inch.
I am only 5'8". The G35 wouldn't be primarily used and I would only use it sparingly for certain situations where I would rather not rely on a compact and would be standing mostly. And if it is not feasible that makes sense too.
I have experimented some with a 5" Govt and an old suede bianchi clip on IWB just to see. Not actually carrying, just unloaded around the house to check the size. Not what I would want all the time for sure as it does limit mobility.
The only reason I ask is if the G35 holster wouldn't be too much day to day off duty with my 23 it would kill 2 birds with one stone. If it would be then I will get the 17/22 size and call it good.
I think I have decided to order the Cane & Derby for my G23. Any recommendations as far as going with that size or should I go with a 17/22 size? Seems like I have seen some recommendations as to using a 19 size for a 26 due to it keeping the pistols position more stable, etc, for some appendix rigs.
I would give them call and ask this same question. You are likely to talk to a guy named Ian that had a hand in the development of the appendix rig. See what he recommends before you order. Cane & Derby's customer service is fantastic.
The general rule of thumb (for AIWB) is to order the next size holster if you are carrying the subcompact. That is, order a G23 size holster if you want to carry the G27. Most people find that a G19/23 size gun is ideal for AIWB and anything longer gives up comfort without adding anything to the stability of the rig. There is no need to order G22 size holster unless you might actually carry a G22 size gun in it. The larger holster is more likely to rub the inside of your thigh and/or crush your balls when you sit, depending on the position of the rig and your build. But everyone is different, so YMMV.
Any chance we could get some pictures with the holster on? I'd like to see the ride height and how well it pulls the butt of the gun into the stomach.
As promised here is a video of the Cane and Derby Pardus Appendix Rig. I had mine made without the holster covering the mag release button. I have found it wears very well appendix and VERY well at 3 o'clock as well.
WARNING, I'm hairy and have a gut !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC-rrriATpg
http://cwlmiami.com/gunpics/CDholster-left.jpg
http://cwlmiami.com/gunpics/CDholster-right.jpg
http://cwlmiami.com/gunpics/CDholster-compare.jpg
Some Pics. You can see where I compare it to gear from Raven. I owned only Raven till I tested this gear and sold everything I owned that was raven. On a side note, The mag carrier is also Cane & Derby. I ran the exact setup you see for two different courses just after surgery on my left hand. Thats why you see me only working the gear with my right hand.
Will do about the call to Ian. Thanks for the responses.
WARNING, I'm hairy and have a gut !!!
I thought you said you had a gut!
Thanks for the video. Helps me visualize this better. I have been thinking about AIWB but have not gotten to any action stage, just thinking about it stage.
dookie1481
03-15-11, 00:09
Does that protrusion on the side push the butt of the gun into the body?
SmokeJumper
03-15-11, 23:22
I've wanted to see one in use and better pics since it was mentioned on another forum- good job, thanks for the show-n-tell.
Tennvol12345
03-20-11, 16:11
Received my CDI appendix rig in the mail yesterday and here are my initial impressions:
1) Ride height is either too low to get a full grip or is too high to conceal a MP9FS. Having a ride height in the middle would be ideal.
2) Mine came with 2 belt loops instead of 1 loop and 1 clip and the spacing of the loops prevents me from keeping my belt loop up front when I wear the holster at 1230
3) The hump on the bottom of the slide helps draw the butt of the gun in.
I tried this coming from a CCC Shaggy which has the same ride height as the CDI in the lowest height (using top screw holes) and I can get a full grip on the Shaggy. Due to the ride height being so low on the Shaggy I can also carry a MP9FS since the butt of the gun is low between my chest and waist whereas the CDI requires me to use a higher ride height and as a result the butt of the gun sticks up and out higher in my chest so I need to carry a MP9C to compensate for this.
Results from a timer indicate slightly faster times using a CCC Shaggy. But in all fairness I've had several thousand draws using it and only about a hundred or so with the CDI.
At this point I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the CDI rig or send it back. I emailed Ian a list of issues with this holster, mag pouch, cantiloops, and belt loops that I had ordered.
As of right now the CCC Shaggy remains king of the 4 I've tried (Archangel, ACR, CDI, and Shaggy).
ETA: I'm 5'5 and weigh 165 with a size 32 waist.
dookie1481
03-20-11, 20:33
EXACTLY the same size as me. Good to know
Tennvol12345
03-20-11, 21:25
As promised I sent Ian at CDI feedback on this and a few other things and he wrote me back about 2 hours later, on a Sunday night and offered to make me another holster with a ride height halfway between the 2 heights of the production holster. I shared some thoughts about a single mag pouch that I had concerns about and he offered to custom make me one more suitable for my specific application also at no charge.
I honestly can not say enough about the customer service so far. I understand that orders are flooding in and they are starting to get a little behind. Im sure they will grow bigger but I honestly hope they keep the current ethos of customer first.
Here is a link to a review of the Cane & Derby Appendix holster (with pictures) that I just posted on the Defensive Carry forum.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-holsters-carry-options/121188-review-cane-derby-appendix-holster.html
Lots of great info in this thread. Thanks for sharing
This has been very informative reading! In a case of rare good fortune, I checked out CCC's website and discovered the Shaggy was unable to be ordered. I sent an email and a few days later I received a notice that they would be accepting new orders. I ordered and now have it. I noticed that it looks like they won't be accepting new orders till September now. I'm usually the guy who comes late to the party and has to wait forever.
Richard was great to deal with. I sent one of my magazines in and the mag carrier that came back is very basic, but works well.
Appendix carry is new to me. The retention is great on my P239 SAS Gen 2. I've been wearing it around the house and a few trips to the store to get used to it. I'm 6'2" and 205, and there is very little printing with t-shirts or polo style shirts. I did a few drills with it last weekend and it sure makes you want to be aware of what your doing, not that you shouldn't be very aware all the time.
Thank you to all who contributed to this thread.
Failure2Stop
06-11-11, 22:34
I did a few drills with it last weekend and it sure makes you want to be aware of what your doing, not that you shouldn't be very aware all the time.
Going to appendix from IWB made me do two things:
Reholster very deliberately.
Appreciate an external hammer.
titsonritz
07-09-11, 00:28
What do you think of the Kramer 1 1/2 for a G19
http://www.kramerleather.com/productDetail.cfm?productID=5&categoryID=23
Having employed AIWB with a wide variety of holsters and handguns since the late '80's, I feel confident in saying that huge paddle like appendage would be pretty brutal carried in the appendix position (sitting, bending, etc)
FYI, Kramer does make a AIWB holster. It is essentially a 1 1/2 without the paddle. Since it is not on their web site you must phone in your order.
A couple of quick questions from someone very ignorant about A-IWB.
Firstly, how does an A-IWB effect your body while seated. Does the pistol either jam into your chest or thigh/groin area? I'm unfamiliar with all the holsters out there but the one's I've seen look like they would dig into some part of your body.
Secondly, for those that train regularly with an overt-hip holster. Do you ever have any issues attempting to switch up from where you commonly draw? I'm used to carrying at the 3o'clock and never concealed.
As I transition from mil - to civ and I will be carrying concealed. I've been looking for options for sometime now. I'm thin / athletic build so I'm looking for something that can conceal easily and not print during normal wear. It seems like A-IWB is the best bet.
(may have been influenced by the Sparrow video years ago) :-)
titsonritz
07-10-11, 14:33
A couple of quick questions from someone very ignorant about A-IWB.
Firstly, how does an A-IWB effect your body while seated. Does the pistol either jam into your chest or thigh/groin area? I'm unfamiliar with all the holsters out there but the one's I've seen look like they would dig into some part of your body.
Secondly, for those that train regularly with an overt-hip holster. Do you ever have any issues attempting to switch up from where you commonly draw? I'm used to carrying at the 3o'clock and never concealed.
I touch on #1 here a bit:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1042613&postcount=13
#2
I have a A LOT more hours carrying strong side IWB for CCW and OC when horseback riding, hiking, etc, out in the field then I do with my fairly recent change to AIWB and I would have to say I found the transition very easy and natural. The draw in a cinch makes me wonder I didn’t try it sooner. When it comes to reholster time, give that task 100% of your attention, make it slow and very deliberate.
Ritz,
I appreciate the quick response as well as the holster selection as mentioned in your linked post.
I'm going to give it a try and see how I like it.
Also, I second your thought about a slow and deliberate re-holster. Anytime you are holstering your weapon, you have deemed the situation safe to do so. There should never be a rush to slam that thing into the holster. Doing so only puts yourself and others at risk. Especially when pointing that thing at the 12-1 o clock region.
Again, thanks.
Yesterday was Halloween so today is gravedig day!
This post is to show how the Shaggy A-IWB holster looks. We'll be using my P228 (KF build, 1995). All open carried so you can see how it looks. For CCW, on my body it prints right near the end of the butt. I weigh about 65kg (140-145lb) and I'm average American height (literally).
1.) Looking down, camera is about chin level. This is fairly close to how it looks to the wearer as it is being carried.
http://i.imgur.com/KnRghgzm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/KnRghgz.jpg)
2.) 3 o'clock view, 2 o'clock view, 12 o'clock view, 10 o'clock view and 9 o'clock view.
http://i.imgur.com/yp384CXm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/yp384CX.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/wvhvyJEm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/wvhvyJE.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/TOHoPNGm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TOHoPNG.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/Rwijhhem.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Rwijhhe.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/UoSZGV3m.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/UoSZGV3.jpg)
3.) Law Enforcement Officers: this is for you. Shown are: camera near interior mirror, A-pillar view (near the roof line), ditto, and the "9 o'clock from driver" view.
http://i.imgur.com/k87EeGBm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/k87EeGB.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/DYYV4tBm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/DYYV4tB.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/O8uhDzJm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/O8uhDzJ.jpg)http://i.imgur.com/oEPmUcbm.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/oEPmUcb.jpg)
4.) Lastly, a view of my favourite holster, the Comp-Tac Minotaur. It does work in this configuration, it does conceal slightly better but the rake is rather strong. 90 degree rake is best, as also when the holster sits high enough to let you get a hand on the gun.
http://i.imgur.com/R2LqZCom.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/R2LqZCo.jpg)
Thoughts: Well the Shaggy is a nice holster for A-IWB. But as mentioned by others far earlier in this thread, A-IWB is notoriously picky. This arrangement tends to make the holster also dig into my pelvic bone, which is highly annoying. I find the 4 o'clock arrangement to be simply more comfortable and forgiving.
You can see without me even concealing the thing how much it can print on me. A-IWB isn't for everybody and it is very picky about every detail. When I tried a concealment arrangement in the house, my eyes bugged out when I looked in the mirror. Talk about printing...and not subtle printing either.
I do like the idea of A-IWB and it can be scary fast on the draw, it is better when carrying in the winter with thick jackets and as mentioned earlier, retention in gun grappling is way easier. In the car, it is slightly awkward to pull it out but is way, way better than 3 o'clock (duty) or 4 o'clock (traditional CCW). For long trips when I have the Minotaur, I just pull out the pistol and put it near my right leg.
You'll want a good gunbelt when carrying A-IWB. You may or may not see it from the pictures but it can sag in the front from the weight of the weapon. (Doesn't help to have an aluminium framed classic firearm either over a lightweight subcompact like a sub-compact XD). You might need a new hole punched for the belt because the tension is important. All the details about positioning, rake, belt tension, etc that you could get away with to a certain degree on 4 o'clock won't cut it with A-IWB. Try looking at dress (thin profile) gun belts because of the bulge near the front (look again at the topmost image). My belt is a Comp-Tac make, don't know the model but it is a 1.5" variant with the kydex insert and cost me about $80. (Matching mag carriers too...can you believe Comp-Tac doesn't sponsor me? :P)
I don't have a CCW in the state I'm in now, but I do OC. I think I get more looks when carrying A-IWB in front. I have only seen *one* other OC'er in the area, and that was in Tucson, it was a half-biker with a two-tone Glock compact. (It was near Speedway and Kolb, in case that was one of you ;))
In the end I think I'll stick with my Minotaur and leave it at that. It was an interesting experience, for sure, but I notice the gun too much versus traditional, where if I'm not "pressing on the gun with my weight" I don't really notice it (Or long drives in a car). That too and my Minotaur is a tuckable holster....
Any comments or picture requests will have to take place before tomorrow morning, since it's going out the door!
3.) Law Enforcement Officers: this is for you.
I don't have a CCW in the state I'm in now, but I do OC. I think I get more looks when carrying A-IWB in front. I have only seen *one* other OC'er in the area, and that was in Tucson, it was a half-biker with a two-tone Glock compact. (It was near Speedway and Kolb, in case that was one of you ;))
2 questions. Why would you take those photos specifically for LEOs? Also, if you're in AZ why don't you carry concealed? You know you don't need a permit to conceal there, right?
2 questions. Why would you take those photos specifically for LEOs? Also, if you're in AZ why don't you carry concealed? You know you don't need a permit to conceal there, right?
Yeah, no kidding.
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