View Full Version : Streets of our Nations Capital
platoonDaddy
01-15-16, 19:15
This was posted last week and when I watch it I think of our fracturing society and the fundamental destruction of our culture. How friggin sad.
https://www.facebook.com/hard.workin.5/videos/1106733302693550/
Those officers made many rookie mistakes, mistakes which likely will cost them their lives in the near future.
Pretty sure I caught enough for Felony threat and APO. Should have got themselves some stick time.
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Well...they were trying to be professional and reserved for the iPhone cameras but yeah...some people should've gone belly down on that one.
Then again these days getting crucified on national TV isn't worth it anymore.
Outlander Systems
01-15-16, 19:38
The comments made me want to puke.
The comments made me want to puke.
I don't speak hoodish so some of it went over my head.
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The comments made me want to puke.
There were comments?
All I read were ooks and eeks.
And I'm most fluent in my Ghettoese.
Pretty sure I caught enough for Felony threat and APO. Should have got themselves some stick time.
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Stick time is my favorite!
Outlander Systems
01-15-16, 19:53
It's pretty dynamic, and my fluency has declined.
Should've banged on them crakkkas! Take ya hood back..
Y'all hardworkin niggas go hard slim niggas smarter then they think
My men went off on them that's right they tried out the police station around our way an try to press people **** they thought
Carried they ass Lls
Translation: "We are henceforth emboldened by your riotous and tumultuous show of aggression. We thusly find the constabulary thou hath affronted, to have been enfeebled through thy quarrelsome and disputatious deportment. We would have reveled in much merrymaking, had the wordplay reached cessation, and fisticuffs hath ensued."
I don't speak hoodish so some of it went over my head.
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Outlander.....my tablet is covered in Mr. Pibb and it's your fault
Outlander Systems
01-15-16, 20:05
LOL.
I do what I can, my brother!
Outlander.....my tablet is covered in Mr. Pibb and it's your fault
It's pretty dynamic, and my fluency has declined.
.......................
Translation: "We are henceforth emboldened by your riotous and tumultuous show of aggression. We thusly find the constabulary thou hath affronted, to have been enfeebled through thy quarrelsome and disputatious deportment. We would have reveled in much merrymaking, had the wordplay reached cessation, and fisticuffs hath ensued."
That is funny, right there.
Stick time is my favorite!
Indeed. A lost art IMO with tasers becoming so common place. A good old fashioned beating with a stick to the extent needed to gain lawful compliance is a special thing.
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Indeed. A lost art IMO with tasers becoming so common place. A good old fashioned beating with a stick to the extent needed to gain lawful compliance is a special thing.
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I miss the days of hickory shampoo.
Outlander Systems
01-15-16, 20:16
Press your brass to approve the return of the sap:
http://www.weapons-universe.com/Personal_Defense/Saps/Police_Leather_Slapper.jpg
When it's close combat at ultra short range and lethal force is not appropriate, the sap gets downright gorgeous in its ability to resolve conflict. It is a plain working tool that legions of old-time coppers came to respect in the same way a carpenter does a framing hammer. Easy to carry. Available in convenient sizes to fit your needs.
platoonDaddy
01-15-16, 20:19
To the right of the video is a few more posted by the POS
How friggin shame.
Press your brass to approve the return of the sap:
http://www.weapons-universe.com/Personal_Defense/Saps/Police_Leather_Slapper.jpg
I still need to order one for duty use. Anyone have a good source? Lol
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echo5whiskey
01-15-16, 20:38
I still need to order one for duty work. Anyone have a good source? Lol
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Since saps are illegal in some places, why not get a coin purse :secret: :
https://bigstickcombat.wordpress.com/2010/10/10/new-sap-wallet/
Haha that's awesome
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Outlander Systems
01-15-16, 20:41
I like that the author brings up how it will knock you...centsless.
:cool:
Since saps are illegal in some places, why not get a coin purse :secret: :
https://bigstickcombat.wordpress.com/2010/10/10/new-sap-wallet/
Bring em' back.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10344775_650360765044738_6223868479899511912_n.jpg?oh=dab761842a2c57e0452a6526d439ba9c&oe=571E42FE
sadly the majority is now the punks in many parts of the cities ? they need to just go around and ask do you want to stay here or would you like out to some of the folks and see how they respond ? those that want out of the crime ridden ghetos say OK then put them up somewhere then go back and put up huge fences and keep the mass from coming out then wait a bit once most all kill each other and the remainders starve off then those that left you can say OK now you can go back now :)
and this time dont let the crime get out of hand
Indeed. A lost art IMO with tasers becoming so common place. A good old fashioned beating with a stick to the extent needed to gain lawful compliance is a special thing.
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I am proud to say I chose my stick instead of a Taser. I've seen Tasers fail, my baton never let me down.
Moose-Knuckle
01-16-16, 02:04
DC needs some ED 209s:
Currently, the units are programmed for urban pacification . . .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiSjxn9Z-Bg
The officers looked like they were way out of their element and apparently the local residents thought so as well. Shuffling their feet and moping around wasn't helping the situation any, in my opinion. It would appear that they need more time with an older, more street wise FTO who can show them the ropes.
"If your bitch ass had enough authority you'd of been able to do something..."
"Y'all don't got to no shots fired, y'all go to calls like this..."
A different perspective with different audio. https://www.facebook.com/hard.workin.5/videos/1107119605988253/?pnref=story
I am proud to say I chose my stick instead of a Taser. I've seen Tasers fail, my baton never let me down.
Yeah, that pepper spray stuff doesn't always work as advertised either. Sticks are great, but a full-size Streamlight or 3 cell Maglight work too. :cool:
Sometimes wayward souls need to be shown the maglite
Sometimes wayward souls need to be shown the maglite
F that. Brass knuckles or the ASP is key to situations like this.
F that. Brass knuckles or the ASP is key to situations like this.
Well...first off, it's kinda hard to trans to another tool with brass knuckles.
Second, I've personally bent 3 ASP batons providing a legally administered ass-whipping and I'm here to tell you they make better reaching sticks and door-knocks than whoop-ass sticks.
Ol' Hickory or a moonbeam from the good people in Ontario, California is never a wrong answer.
Just goes to prove that violence does work
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Averageman
01-16-16, 08:09
The officers looked like they were way out of their element and apparently the local residents thought so as well. Shuffling their feet and moping around wasn't helping the situation any, in my opinion. It would appear that they need more time with an older, more street wise FTO who can show them the ropes.
"If your bitch ass had enough authority you'd of been able to do something..."
"Y'all don't got to no shots fired, y'all go to calls like this..."
If these guys had the intent, they certainly had the opportunity. Had a Bum rush started about the time they had their back about half turned, this story would have ended very differently.
On one hand I could be very critical of the officers. On the other, that could've gotten out of hand and then some Dindus would be on CNN either pumpkinnheaded beyond recognition or shot depending on how damn stupid they planned on getting.
Then those officers would be crucified on cable news.
Sometimes it's better to let pigs wallow in their own shit.
Averageman
01-16-16, 08:31
Sometimes it's better to let pigs wallow in their own shit.
They will get a ride, maybe not that night or the next, but it will be in the back of a patrol car or on a gurney in the back of an ambulance. I'm sure either way the tough guy image they would like to project wont be evident.
Anyone know what district the incident in the video went down in?
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Well...first off, it's kinda hard to trans to another tool with brass knuckles.
Second, I've personally bent 3 ASP batons providing a legally administered ass-whipping and I'm here to tell you they make better reaching sticks and door-knocks than whoop-ass sticks.
Ol' Hickory or a moonbeam from the good people in Ontario, California is never a wrong answer.
I've had much better luck with the ASP than you it sounds. Am now using a Monadnock without issues.
Agree with the transition issue with brass knuckles, but they work well.
Speaking of building a wall..... put a fence around it and let them self devour.
@Averageman
They will get a ride,
Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of a hearse.
F that. Brass knuckles or the ASP is key to situations like this.
ASP suck donkey balls for anything other than Windows and touching gross skelly shit during a search.
platoonDaddy
01-16-16, 14:36
Anyone know what district the incident in the video went down in?
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5200 Just St NE DC 20019 6th district
10-4. Much obliged.
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BravoHotel
01-16-16, 21:05
Seeing this "culture" begin to take hold and strengthen saddens me immensely. I fear for what our society is becoming with the excessive PC bullsh!t. The police are now hesitant to do their jobs for fear of how the media will portray them.
They were instigating and trying to push any button they could to get a response, all so they could end up on the news claiming they weren't doing anything and didn't deserve it.
We need to correct this sh!t immediately while we still can. I don't care what color your skin is, if you're acting like that you deserve to get your @ss whooped.
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Moose-Knuckle
01-17-16, 01:52
Robots!
That's the answer guys, look everything we need we learned from 80's Action/Adventure/Sci-Fi films. These communities feel threatened and terrorized by LEOs, even Hilary went on the record at the Brown and Black Forum just last week stating this.
I say pop smoke and exfil all LEOs from the urban centers, wall them off, and deploy Cyberdyne Systems Series 800 Model 101 Terminator units in the name of urban pacification. But instead of making them to look like Arnold they should be made to look like Terry Cruz so as not to upset and scare the inhabitants of these communities.
No way, no how, somebody would have went to jail with some lumps. Doing nothing only emboldens that crap.
Sad thing is so many people think that cops should just stand there and take that because its "free speech"
black22rifle
01-17-16, 02:02
Maybe they did nothing because they had no legal authority to do so.
Would you let someone talk to you like that?
Moose-Knuckle
01-17-16, 02:15
Maybe they did nothing because they had no legal authority to do so.
Well as usual with these "street activists" we don't get to see the video in it's entirety. What led up to the chain events, was their a call, disturbance, etc.? The video linked starts out with the officers hands on one of the suspects, then he aggressively pulls away from them. That could be viewed as resisting.
I'd bet a GLOCK a few if not all of those pillars of the community had outstanding warrants. Not to mention what they had on their persons; drugs, weapons, etc.
It goes down hill from there . . .
black22rifle
01-17-16, 05:00
Would you let someone talk to you like that?
That's irrelevant.
To my knowledge the police don't just back down from arresting someone when they are right or even when they think they are.
In this case they did. Loudmouth number 1 should have been dumped and arrested for pulling away from the pat down.
They didn't because apparently they were afraid of being recorded. Shouldn't have mattered.
They are there for a reason. They appear to be either holding a perimeter which means there is an active search for a suspect, or they are holding a crime scene.
The behavior of both loudmouth 1, and loudmouth 2 are obstructing the officers from their duties in either case.
They should have been warned 1 time to move on or be arrested for obstruction, along with threatening a public servant.
Instead they stood there and did nothing which only emboldened both loudmouths.
The nicer you are to loudmouths like these 2 the worse they get.
People that act like those 2 idiots view nice and polite, as weak and punk.
Wheather citizens like it or not after the first attempt of an officer being polite doesn't work you might have to sink to the level of the person your dealing with and "talk on their terms" it's been my experience over 19 years when you " talk on their terms"
That's the only way you can get their attention and they'll usually move on. Just like most bullies when they see the person isn't going to put up with their b.s. they back down.
If that doesn't work arrest them for the appropriate charge.
Which in this case as described there were appropriate charges.
The white officer looked young, and probably doesn't have a lot of time on the job, and instead of doing his job he was afraid of the recording, which in today's law enforcement I can understand.
In this case they did. Loudmouth number 1 should have been dumped and arrested for pulling away from the pat down.
They didn't because apparently they were afraid of being recorded. Shouldn't have mattered...
Does justification, or articulation for a pat down, come into play?
KalashniKEV
01-17-16, 07:39
Does justification, or articulation for a pat down, come into play?
It should, in the United States of America... because "the Constitution" and all... but in NY and DC it does not:
http://www.newsweek.com/jump-outs-dcs-scarier-version-stop-and-frisk-300151
It should, in the United States of America... because "the Constitution" and all... but in NY and DC it does not:
http://www.newsweek.com/jump-outs-dcs-scarier-version-stop-and-frisk-300151
I knew about NYC, but didn't know the same rules applied in DC.
I knew about NYC, but didn't know the same rules applied in DC.
Yeah, and Michael Brown was on his knees with his hands up and Travon was just walking home minding his own business when that White-Hispanic dude shot him for no reason. Let me get this straight, nobody has any video evidence despite this tactic being used all the time - allegedly? Keep in mind that YouTube was littered with people filming stop and frisk in NYC.
Here is a telling part from that article:
“We don’t use controversial tactics,” Chief Lanier said in a statement during one of those City Council hearings. “There are no jump-out units in MPD,” she added, explaining that activists were likely referring to vice units, responsible for covert drug busts. During such operations, she said, four to six undercover officers wearing police vests “pull into the block, jump out of the car and arrest those observed in the drug transaction.... That tactic is not used nearly as often as it was in the late ’90s and early 2000s.”
Lanier tells Newsweek that the MPD has discredited many of the alleged jump-outs and that accusers were often unable to provide basic details, or that the incidents involved other law enforcement agencies, or happened outside of the district. “An 11-year-old telling a story, and then the ACLU retelling that story, is not a fact,” she says.
...and then someone with an agenda retells it on M4C. Newsweek is a discredited progressive rag - no better than publications from SPLC.
Yeah, and Brown was on his knees with his hands up and Travon was just walking home minding his own business when that White-Hispanic dude shot him for no reason.
What are you talking about? I couldn't access the article and it should be given as much credibility as any other until the information provided is verified.
That article is taken straight out of the BLM playbook: create a BS story than then repeat until it grows legs of its own.
If you couldn't even access the story (trust me, you didn't miss much), then why comment on it? The rules in DC are the same in 99% of the country - there is no evidence to suggest that cops jump out of armored trucks with M4s to harass black kids for no reason.
If you couldn't even access the story (trust me, you didn't miss much), then why comment on it?
I was simply responding to KalashniKEV's statement, I'd assumed he posted legitimate information, comparing DC to NYC. I do know enough about NYPD's "Stop & Frisk" program to think it's bullshit.
Averageman
01-17-16, 09:34
And from that article;
President Barack Obama’s Task Force on 21st-Century Policing held its first “listening session” in D.C. this week, while heated debate is going on within the district over the controversial police tactic that activists say is traumatizing black communities. Locals say anyone is a target, especially young black men, while the Metropolitan Police Department (MPD) says it hasn’t used this policing tactic for at least 15 years, and even then, it was employed only for high-risk arrests.
You take a fact.
15 years ago the MPD was using "Jump Out" stop and frisks. then you add "Young Black Men", the result is a Presidential "Task Force".
The idea was to stop criminals with Dope and illegal firearms from committing crimes, just going by crime statistics and population the people most likely to be involved in the Metro area would be Young Black Men.
Now regardless of what you think of "Stop and Frisk" it has an effect on lowering crime in DC and in NYC. Statistically the crimes are being committed by the very people who seem to be offended by the tactic, but the crime rate in the neighborhoods the live in are being lowered.
The POTUS being involved and creating a Task Force to quell these tactics only shows that the results Lower Crime Rates are not a goal. The goal would be fewer stops of young black men and the use of stop and frisk.
Regardless that the tactic hasn't "officially" been used or authorized in 15 years, the community plays this card and the Task Force goes along with it.
This would appear to me to embolden those who are criminals and the result would be a higher crime rate. I think the video the OP linked to would perhaps be a perfect example of that train of thought in action.
If I were a Cop (and I'm not) I would feel like the asylum is being run to the benefit and by the crazy inmates. I don't think I would want to work in those conditions. You simply cannot serve a community that prefers crime and criminals over safety and justice. The community will get the benefit of the Police Force they want, deserve and pay for.
If I were a Young Man contemplating a career in Law Enforcement, it wouldn't be in DC Metro. Create as much distance from disorder as possible, it would appear that this would be a lost cause.
Does justification, or articulation for a pat down, come into play?
Insofar as what? Articulating the need to frisk a subject you believe to be presently armed and dangerous isn't a particularly high standard. And if you decide to perform the frisk and the subject becomes non-compliant reasonable force is appropriate to gain control, so an ass whooping is gonna happen.
Kicker is in DC harassment of LE on duty is permissible and is written to DC code, granted threatening speech is not so its a fine line. Also resisting arrest, impeding, etc is all considered APO or assault on a police officers but if it does not result in serious injury its only a misdemeanor charge.
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Averageman
01-17-16, 09:59
That article is taken straight out of the BLM playbook: create a BS story than then repeat until it grows legs of its own.
Insofar as what? Articulating the need to frisk a subject you believe to be presently armed and dangerous isn't a particularly high standard.
Who would you articulate that to?
Obviously the guy linked in the OP's video isn't going to be receptive to your opinion of why he needs to be frisked. I would think the only person I need to discuss why I want to frisk a guy would be the other Cop in the car.
Expecting the folks in the original video link to be willing and able to understand why you want to frisk them is irrelevant past the first "F' You!" These guys have been emboldened by numbers, situations like Ferguson and have no regard for any authority an Officer might have. Those guys wanted a fight and a fight on video or for the Cops to back down.
It's a No Win situation in that video for the Cop.
Obviously if the POTUS becomes involved with these things, this is the result they want.
Insofar as what? Articulating the need to frisk a subject you believe to be presently armed and dangerous isn't a particularly high standard. And if you decide to perform the frisk and the subject becomes non-compliant reasonable force is appropriate to gain control, so an ass whooping is gonna happen.
Subject of what? I have no information pertaining to what transpired prior to the beginning of the video. If the police officer decides he's gonna frisk Johnny Shithead for standing on the corner, just because, but he can articulate or fabricate some BS line, then I have a problem with it. As far as I know the guy wasn't a "suspect" and if he was I highly doubt they would've let him slip that easily.
I'm not defending the shitheads but I do believe in the 4th Amendment.
I was speaking to a frisk in general. Idk what back story for the video was/is.
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At what point is it the police's fault when packs of dumbasses are out on corners and stop signs with no reason to be there except to sling dope or step on people who look like "bitches with loot"?
The idea was to stop criminals with Dope and illegal firearms from committing crimes, just going by crime statistics and population the people most likely to be involved in the Metro area would be Young Black Men.
Now regardless of what you think of "Stop and Frisk" it has an effect on lowering crime in DC and in NYC. Statistically the crimes are being committed by the very people who seem to be offended by the tactic, but the crime rate in the neighborhoods the live in are being lowered.
See, here is the problem, you obviously have no clue as to what the legal basis for stop and frisk is, even more problematic is that a large number of the officers in the NYPD and the DCMPD also have no clue, or even more concerning, have knowledge and consciously violate the Constitutional rights of citizens.
If the 2nd Amendment is so precious to us all, then we shouldn't excuse violations of the 4th Amendment based on 'statistics and population the people most likely to be involved in the Metro area would be Young Black Men.'
But I guess like so much in America today it just depends on whether you are buying or selling.
Effective police work involves some degree of cogitation and quite frankly if your more worried about how someone talks to you than the law, maybe you should be selling ice cream - most folks like the ice cream guy.
Eff me running.
This is based on what little we know and not a condemnation of the LEO on scene without sufficient information.
If the officers involved had sufficient justification for a Terry Stop, they should have followed through. If the subject resists, make an arrest and be done with it. Playing patty fingers with a resistive subject in a hostile environment will make it even more difficult the next time you are dispatched to an active area. At times, it will get you killed.
If command is greatly concerned about public opinion in rough parts of the city and don't want their officers actively seeking criminal arrests, they should not dispatch officers to those areas.
Yes and yes for the last 2 posts!
Averageman
01-17-16, 22:02
See, here is the problem, you obviously have no clue as to what the legal basis for stop and frisk is, even more problematic is that a large number of the officers in the NYPD and the DCMPD also have no clue, or even more concerning, have knowledge and consciously violate the Constitutional rights of citizens.
If the 2nd Amendment is so precious to us all, then we shouldn't excuse violations of the 4th Amendment based on 'statistics and population the people most likely to be involved in the Metro area would be Young Black Men.'
But I guess like so much in America today it just depends on whether you are buying or selling.
Effective police work involves some degree of cogitation and quite frankly if your more worried about how someone talks to you than the law, maybe you should be selling ice cream - most folks like the ice cream guy.
Eff me running.
My point was you get the Police Force and the Community you want.
At some point and I believe the article stated that "Stop and Frisk" officially was ended fifteen years ago. What I think about the issue of "Stop and Frisk" is irrelevant.
If it (Stop and Frisk) is being used by the Police in the Metro area, it is against policy, if it isn't being used and its prior use has been resurrected as an excuse to make false claims that is another issue. Clearly at one point it was policy and the people who implemented that policy were either voted in to office or appointed to that position by someone who was voted in to office.
You get the Community you ask for with your vote. Officials in Office will bow to pressures coming from the community they serve, one way or the other. Ideally people in these communities would police themselves, but that is simply not happening.
What we are seeing is a rising crime rate and a voting block who wants neither a high crime rate or the criminals caught and prosecuted. It's just not going to work that way.
Seeing BLM go out there in the streets in Ferguson Mo. and control the situation, rob, loot and burn only emboldens the criminal element and the community organizers working to gain a power base to move forward to set policy and run for office. All of that is good, if that is the community you want, there you go.
This is based on what little we know and not a condemnation of the LEO on scene without sufficient information.
If the officers involved had sufficient justification for a Terry Stop, they should have followed through. If the subject resists, make an arrest and be done with it. Playing patty fingers with a resistive subject in a hostile environment will make it even more difficult the next time you are dispatched to an active area. At times, it will get you killed.
If command is greatly concerned about public opinion in rough parts of the city and don't want their officers actively seeking criminal arrests, they should not dispatch officers to those areas.
We probably will never know what caused the initial stop to happen, that information wasn't in or edited out of that video.
What it did rather clearly show was two Officers in a dangerous situation being forced to not continue the interaction with a criminal, and that crime was resisting arrest and perhaps assault.
That video will only make it harder for the next time any Officer has to have any interaction bad or good with the Community they serve.
The inmates are running the asylum.
My point was you get the Police Force and the Community you want.
At some point and I believe the article stated that "Stop and Frisk" officially was ended fifteen years ago. What I think about the issue of "Stop and Frisk" is irrelevant.
If it (Stop and Frisk) is being used by the Police in the Metro area, it is against policy, if it isn't being used and its prior use has been resurrected as an excuse to make false claims that is another issue. Clearly at one point it was policy and the people who implemented that policy were either voted in to office or appointed to that position by someone who was voted in to office.
You get the Community you ask for with your vote. Officials in Office will bow to pressures coming from the community they serve, one way or the other. Ideally people in these communities would police themselves, but that is simply not happening.
What we are seeing is a rising crime rate and a voting block who wants neither a high crime rate or the criminals caught and prosecuted. It's just not going to work that way.
Seeing BLM go out there in the streets in Ferguson Mo. and control the situation, rob, loot and burn only emboldens the criminal element and the community organizers working to gain a power base to move forward to set policy and run for office. All of that is good, if that is the community you want, there you go.
That is a simplistic answer which leads me to believe that you aren't aware that the rules of 'stop and frisk' are not departmental policies, they are set out by court decisions. The landmark case which gives officers authority to detain based on reasonable suspicion is Terry v. Ohio, decided in 1968. That case also outlined when officers can conduct a brief external pat down of the offender's clothing to determine if he is armed. The frisk does not automatically follow the stop. There would not be near the uproar if officers followed the law. The 'jump out' actions that were described - unless a drug transaction had been observed, were probably outside the bounds of the Terry decision.
Once again, decided in 1968, you'd think in 50 years some folks would have figured it out, huh?
Here is the deal, when cops stop folks based on articulable reasonable suspicion they rarely get the 18 year-old kid who is walking to school and is going to be the shining example of 'see you can accomplish anything with work' everyone espouses. When cops go out and stop folks just because they are in a specific neighborhood and are a specific color, with no articulable reasonable suspicion, you get those kids and you get a community that is pissed. You also get the working man who is busting his ass to make a decent living and gets pissed because he's being treated like a thug.
It ain't easy and it ain't simple.
Averageman
01-17-16, 23:58
I agree with you and yes I have heard of Terry v Ohio.
What I'm saying is that every Officer can use Terry v Ohio, but to use Stop and Frisk well that's taking it a little bit to the extreme. Is it necessary to use Terry v Ohio for Officer safety? I would say so.
On the other hand jump out or stop and frisk clearly are a policy that is coming from the top down. I believe the Mayor of New York ( I can't think of his name at the moment) was one of the guys pushing it as policy. To me that would imply that other Mayors or Chiefs of Police could use the same policy in their jurisdictions.
Reasonable Suspicion I would imagine comes down to individual Officer discretion. Is that a cell phone on a belt under a shirt or is it a pistol? I would imagine it builds from there, or it should and a lot of other factors should be coming in to play at that point. Regardless what happens from there the guy being stopped and the Cop might have both very valid reasons for what happens next.
If there is enough public pressure policy will change, someone, usually someone feeling that pressure will change the policy.
What I don't like to see is Communities that do not want the crime, but do not want you as an Police Officer making valid use of Terry v Ohio. In these communities we've now come to the point where valid or not the Cop is always going to be wrong and before we get the facts a little arson and robbery is a valid form of protest.
I don't see how people want it, no expect it to work both ways. To quote you, "It aint easy and it aint simple.", but again, you get the community you work for and want.
That is a simplistic answer which leads me to believe that you aren't aware that the rules of 'stop and frisk' are not departmental policies, they are set out by court decisions. The landmark case which gives officers authority to detain based on reasonable suspicion is Terry v. Ohio, decided in 1968. That case also outlined when officers can conduct a brief external pat down of the offender's clothing to determine if he is armed. The frisk does not automatically follow the stop. There would not be near the uproar if officers followed the law. The 'jump out' actions that were described - unless a drug transaction had been observed, were probably outside the bounds of the Terry decision.
Once again, decided in 1968, you'd think in 50 years some folks would have figured it out, huh?
Here is the deal, when cops stop folks based on articulable reasonable suspicion they rarely get the 18 year-old kid who is walking to school and is going to be the shining example of 'see you can accomplish anything with work' everyone espouses. When cops go out and stop folks just because they are in a specific neighborhood and are a specific color, with no articulable reasonable suspicion, you get those kids and you get a community that is pissed. You also get the working man who is busting his ass to make a decent living and gets pissed because he's being treated like a thug.
It ain't easy and it ain't simple.
Terry frisk is not stop in frisk. Terry is up held by courts. Stop and frisk is some NYNY stuff employed during Bloomberg. I think stop and frisk required less RS but I could be wrong you will have to get that from someone who was there during the time is was used. From what I understand NYNY really has not used it much in almost 10 years and stopped all together recently. But they are certainly not the same thing.
ramairthree
01-18-16, 01:08
I have never been much of an open carry fan,
But I suspect if thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens showed up at the same time in NYC and DC and said screw your laws and safe act,
And went to these areas the inhabitants would be off the streets not committing crimes.
And the safe act and stuff would be hard to enforce on multiple large groups of people not complying.
2A gets demonstrated,
4A of the inhabitants gets protected,
Inhabitants are safer, less crime occurs,
And if the politicians don't force LE's hand,
All is well.
If politicians and LE can ignore crowds of violent rioters destroying their own city,
It would be even easier to ignore armed citizens walking around not destroying stuff.
Moose-Knuckle
01-18-16, 02:48
Oh the irony . . . it burns!
So progressive anti-2nd Amendment utopias like NYC and DC have a healthy dose of 'Police State' at the behest of their low income and minority communities pissing and moaning about crime in their neighborhoods. So then the PD's in those cities step it up and 'stop a frisk' individuals who fit the description of those who commit 100% of the crimes in said neighborhoods. Then those same people that were pissing and moaning that the LEOs are only patrolling "rich white" areas and are in fact neglecting their poor neighborhoods are now screaming racism.
Spike Lee, community activist and card carrying member of the BLM bigots made a recent film entitled "Chi-Raq" because he felt that America doesn't care about the murder rate in Chicago. Well he's partly right as Obama (from Chicago), Hilary, Bloomberg, and the rest of their ilk could care less about Chicago crime as it doesn't fit with their disarmament agenda, i.e. Chicago's strict gun laws are impotent.
Some days I have to pinch myself to remind me that this is all real . . .
Averageman
01-18-16, 06:05
Terry frisk is not stop in frisk. Terry is up held by courts. Stop and frisk is some NYNY stuff employed during Bloomberg. I think stop and frisk required less RS but I could be wrong you will have to get that from someone who was there during the time is was used. From what I understand NYNY really has not used it much in almost 10 years and stopped all together recently. But they are certainly not the same thing.
I think it was actually Rudy Giuliani who started "Stop and Frisk." in New York City.
Spike Lee, community activist and card carrying member of the BLM bigots made a recent film entitled "Chi-Raq" because he felt that America doesn't care about the murder rate in Chicago. Well he's partly right as Obama (from Chicago), Hilary, Bloomberg, and the rest of their ilk could care less about Chicago crime as it doesn't fit with their disarmament agenda, i.e. Chicago's strict gun laws are impotent.
Either way they are going to bitch, but in the end listening to guys like Spike Lee, Rev. Al and Chicago native Rev Jackson doesn't seem to be making the issue any better. One might even say that since the mid sixties when Rev Jackson came out of Martin L. King's shadow and became a political force in Chicago, things have become worse.
Now think about that, the guy has had fifty years in Chicago Politics as a "Man behind the Throne" and things are worse? That in a nutshell is the role of the "Community Organizer." to keep the unrest and dissatisfaction moving forward.
I will again default to you get the Community, the Justice and the Law Enforcement you ask for, unfortunately in these area's the asking would seem to be coming from a schizophrenic Community who want neither the crime or the Law Enforcement presence.
The only thing more crazy would be that if the Mayor of Baltimore a "Failed City" who's present claim to fame is riots against Police would be running for POTUS, 'cause that job is so much easier???
Being that it is MLK day, I could point out famous quotes about content of character, but it isn't worth it. Let those choose to live like this, in violent burnt out ghetto's reap what they have sown.
There's either Articuable Reasonable Suspicion or there's not.
Actually I think you are right about it being Rudy.
There's either Articuable Reasonable Suspicion or there's not.
Facts drive the train!!
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What it did rather clearly show was two Officers in a dangerous situation being forced to not continue the interaction with a criminal, and that crime was resisting arrest and perhaps assault.
How do you know he was resisting arrest? Were the officers in the process of arresting him?
How do you know he was resisting arrest? Were the officers in the process of arresting him?
Doesn't matter if he was resisting arrest or simply detainment pursuant to a Terry stop. His actions were unlawful and constitute an assault on a police officer APO in DC.
http://koehlerlaw.net/assault-theft/assault-on-a-police-officer/
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Terry frisk is not stop in frisk. Terry is up held by courts. Stop and frisk is some NYNY stuff employed during Bloomberg. I think stop and frisk required less RS but I could be wrong you will have to get that from someone who was there during the time is was used. From what I understand NYNY really has not used it much in almost 10 years and stopped all together recently. But they are certainly not the same thing.
Hmm, well, dang, the term stop and frisk has been used around here as shorthand for the Terry Stops since at least 1976. What NYPD officers did as a matter of practice violated the 4th Amendment - most of the 665,000 recorded stops did not have the requisite 'articulable reasonable suspicion' that the law and the NYPD policy required.
BTW in response to this - I think stop and frisk required less RS - you can not legally stop someone for less than reasonable suspicion regardless of what a policy says - it is the Constitution and it's Amendments we are talking about.
A little off track, but not much - we do at least 2 reciprocity classes each year for veteran officers from other states taking jobs in our state. The class revolves around state statutes and search and seizure. During one of the classes an officer raised their hand and asked the our legal instructor 'This 4th Amendment, is it nationwide?' I shit you not. Now that is one highly trained crime fighter.
That's funny. But in a painful sad sort of way
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Doesn't matter if he was resisting arrest or simply detainment pursuant to a Terry stop. His actions were unlawful and constitute an assault on a police officer APO in DC.
http://koehlerlaw.net/assault-theft/assault-on-a-police-officer/
Assault? LOL!
Averageman
01-19-16, 06:14
Here is another whack a doodle politician out there stirring the discontent.
http://www.examiner.com/article/councilman-kenneth-stokes-suggests-pelting-cops-with-rocks-and-other-projectiles
Stokes, who is a councilman in the great state of Mississippi, claims he's had it with police chasing people in his city who are wanted for minor crimes and suggests folks pelt law enforcement with rocks, bricks and bottles to fix this.
According to NBC affiliate WLBT on December 31, Stokes said that this would teach the cops a lesson. The good councilman apparently gave that speech on New Year's Eve, which is a strange way to ring in a new year for your voters!
DB Techno reports that Stokes thinks this will send a message to the outside cops that the city of Jackson doesn't want them there. Apparently Stokes is not living in reality because this says much more than that. It says that this guy is about to insight a riot and he is putting law enforcement and the citizens who follow his suggestions in grave danger.
So on one hand you can look at Terry v Ohio and the Fourth Amendment and then you have this guy, one of the local political hero's just promoting assault with a deadly weapon.
A would guess he thinks it's been working well for the Palestinians so why not?
This is exactly what I mean when I say you get the government you want.
Moose-Knuckle
01-19-16, 14:19
http://www.examiner.com/article/councilman-kenneth-stokes-suggests-pelting-cops-with-rocks-and-other-projectiles
Stokes, who is a councilman in the great state of Mississippi, claims he's had it with police chasing people in his city who are wanted for minor crimes and suggests folks pelt law enforcement with rocks, bricks and bottles to fix this.
I think we should take up the councilman's idea but use to fix the problem of corrupt and impotent elected officials. Every they are scene in public pelt them with rocks, bottles, bricks, dog feces, rotten heads of cabbage, et al.
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