Sierra Tipped SMK's in .224 (69 & 77 gr)

[InfiniteGrim]

Wondering if anyone has done any extensive testing with these, accuracy wise. Google has only come up with a few quick tests... but nothing really comparing the "TMK's" potential to the well known SMK's.

I've got some LaRue barrels that need ammo worked up for them, and I noticed Midway USA has the 69gr TMK's for $20.20 per 100 (or $99 per 500) or the 77gr TMK's for $23/100. Which is a pretty good price for Sierra bullets.

I ordered 500 of each, but was hoping to see if anyone else has any results they would like to share... or to tell me I made a bad mistake ordering them! I will be trying them out with Varget and XBR 8208.

[opngrnd]

I know nothing of Varget, but one of the "forum loads" is with XBR and SMKs/TMKs/Nosler CCs. Search the forum for Sierra TMKs and I believe there is a pretty good thread on it. I know I got 1.5" for a 10-shot group the other day, but 5of them were one ragged hole in the middle if the group. I'm not the best shooter, and I wasn't following the recipe correctly.

Here is the "proper" recipe, courtesy of Markm's long range experiments:
77gr TMK/SMK/Nosler CC
23.4 gr XBR
Wolf Small Rifle Magnum

This is a slightly over max load, so work your way up.

[Onyx Z]

Varget sucks to work with, but I got awesome performance with with it under 77gr SMK/TMK's. I use XBR exclusively for 223 match loads now since it drops more uniformly, but it gives very similar velocity/accuracy as Varget with 77gr SMK/TMK's.

The main differences from SMK's are that the TMK line has a ballistic tip and are more of a secant-ish ogive (SMK's=tangent ogive), giving them a higher BC.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?163635-Sierra-77gr-Tipped-MK

[Molon]

I haven't done any "extensive" testing with them, but with just some minimum load work-up the 77 grain TMK turned in a 10-shot group from 100 yards that had an extreme spread of 0.68".



https://app.box.com/shared/static/bgpp1crv6ucymcupre31zhy6j856ay6q.jpg





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https://app.box.com/shared/static/b9uiky2o8e32u1m0nxc2dx8ni2izrd20.jpg




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[DW68]

A bit of newb question but is there a reason to choose the TMK or the SMK? I assume that it depends on the application but I'm not sure when each one would be appropriate.

[n517rv]

A bit of newb question but is there a reason to choose the TMK or the SMK?

The TMK would have a higher ballistic coefficient and would be a better choice for long distances. The TMK might have better terminal ballistics as well although I'm not certain anyone has done any extensive testing of TB.

Sierra 69 Grain
SMK BC = .301 @ 2800 fps and above
TMK BC = .375 @ 2700 fps and above

Sierra 77 Grain
SMK BC = .372 @ 3000 fps and above
TMK BC = .420 @ 2400 fps and above

[Auto-X Fil]

A bit of newb question but is there a reason to choose the TMK or the SMK? I assume that it depends on the application but I'm not sure when each one would be appropriate.

TMK is better in every case I can think of. It's just a little more money.

I have not done accuracy testing with the TMK - I just loaded them up hot as a defensive load in my 11.5" BCM barrel. I will be switching from 69gt SMK to 77 TMK in my match gun once I run out of 69s, though. I haven't seen anyone be anything less than happy with the TMK accuracy.

I used XBR for more velocity, but I'm a Varget slut. I find that charge weights and velocity varies more with Varget, but groups are better than XBR. My 69gr pills are loaded over 24gr of Varget, and that load hauls ass with zero pressure issues and good brass life. And is highly accurate.

[Onyx Z]

TMK is better in every case I can think of. It's just a little more money.

I have not done accuracy testing with the TMK - I just loaded them up hot as a defensive load in my 11.5" BCM barrel. I will be switching from 69gt SMK to 77 TMK in my match gun once I run out of 69s, though. I haven't seen anyone be anything less than happy with the TMK accuracy.

I used XBR for more velocity, but I'm a Varget slut. I find that charge weights and velocity varies more with Varget, but groups are better than XBR. My 69gr pills are loaded over 24gr of Varget, and that load hauls ass with zero pressure issues and good brass life. And is highly accurate.

XBR is a lot more friendly to work with than Varget, which is my go-to for 308... plus you can drop it and the ± variations in a given load will perform very similar.

[DW68]

Thanks guy. I appreciate the responses.

[markm]

From a 100% practical usage perspective for long range shooting... We've come to the conclusion that sticking with Nosler CC 77s is a better bang for the buck. Optics are zeroed for that bullet etc. The .308 bullet offers some value however.

[Eurodriver]

I've got some TMKs I want to run through my Krieger. The BC is phenomenal.

I have TAC and IMR 4064. Should I bother loading with those or just go out and buy RL15 or XBR?

[jpipes]

Tac will get you velocity, and meters like water. I love it, but make sure you budget for some temperature swings in your load development. It's not huge, but if you're running close to pressure, its something to think about. 8208xbr will get you the velocity with the temperature stability. Shoot whichever one is more accurate.

[snowdog650]

From a 100% practical usage perspective for long range shooting... We've come to the conclusion that sticking with Nosler CC 77s is a better bang for the buck. Optics are zeroed for that bullet etc. The .308 bullet offers some value however.

Agreed ... I've been loving the CC's in 223 (69 grain) and 308 (175 grain) over the SMKs.

[The FNG]

I've got some TMKs I want to run through my Krieger. The BC is phenomenal.

I have TAC and IMR 4064. Should I bother loading with those or just go out and buy RL15 or XBR?

One of my books says N140 is supposed to be the accuracy load, but it otherwise my other sources split between Varget and Rx-15.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[akssdude]

24gr TAC, CCI BR-4 primer and the 77 TMK is a sweet shooting combo in my BCM. Good accuracy and I love how TAC meters.

[KUSA]

I haven't done any "extensive" testing with them, but with just some minimum load work-up the 77 grain TMK turned in a 10-shot group from 100 yards that had an extreme spread of 0.68".



https://app.box.com/shared/static/bgpp1crv6ucymcupre31zhy6j856ay6q.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/s9ehfsykh4jf2i92e10174qea5oebonx.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/4fihcw1t5m4x1ni8k4u541xyni7pus3h.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/b9uiky2o8e32u1m0nxc2dx8ni2izrd20.jpg




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That TMK is a long bullet. I assume it works fine in an AR. It would have to be seated deeper which might effect case capacity.

[Eurodriver]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Would you guys recommend once fired LC or brand new Winchester if chasing accuracy?

[KUSA]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Would you guys recommend once fired LC or brand new Winchester if chasing accuracy?

I would go with the Winchester. It's decent brass that doesn't break the bank. There is no telling what that once fired LC was fired in.

[Onyx Z]

Would you guys recommend once fired LC or brand new Winchester if chasing accuracy?

I've had really, really good luck with once-fired LC 5.56 brass. Some years are difference than others, so I would do some research what is what first.

[Eurodriver]

Hmm, thus the dilemma! Seems 50/50 either way. I have both types of brass. If I were to weigh them together (win with win and LC with LC, obviously), am I just sorting by similar weights or is there a weight I should be "finding"? How close do they need to be? Does 5.56mm LC brass have a different volume to Win brass similar to how FC/BH .308 brass has less volume than civilian brass?

I've never loaded brass for accuracy that didn't come out of factory match ammo (black hills and FGMM) but it is sounding like either one is a good choice. Sorry if I'm getting off topic, but I am trying to maximize the accuracy of my TMKs.

[Onyx Z]

Hmm, thus the dilemma! Seems 50/50 either way. I have both types of brass. If I were to weigh them together (win with win and LC with LC, obviously), am I just sorting by similar weights or is there a weight I should be "finding"? How close do they need to be? Does 5.56mm LC brass have a different volume to Win brass similar to how FC/BH .308 brass has less volume than civilian brass?

I've never loaded brass for accuracy that didn't come out of factory match ammo (black hills and FGMM) but it is sounding like either one is a good choice. Sorry if I'm getting off topic, but I am trying to maximize the accuracy of my TMKs.

I wouldn't even bother weighing them as all 5.56 LC brass is generally equal in regards to case volume. It's more about longevity in my experience. I get the same results regardless of which 5.56 LC headstamp I use (within the last 5 years or so).

Just remembered I started a thread a few years:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?152056-Is-all-Lake-City-brass-created-equal

[Eurodriver]

Thanks Onyx, you've been a true help. I'm going to start with the Win brass simply because its already sized and trimmed and I don't have the time to decrimp a few hundred LC brass right now. What is a good (most cost effective) method for doing so? I'll be using LC once I can find a way that doesn't take 30sec per case.

When making 300BLK brass I used to use a drill and a hornady tool but it was a total pain in the hand because the case would slip with the drill and pockets got ruined by being off-center.

[Kansaswoodguy]

I've used drill powered deburing tools and a hand swedging die before they both work but I just order 1000 swedged and sized sometimes even primed brass online it's way less headache last time I ordered it was around $100 shipped. I love imr 8208 XBR for the 75-77gr bullets IMR 4895 is good also

http://brassbombers.com/223-556-Cleaned-Deprimed-Swaged-LC-Only-1000-Pieces-5LC-S0100.htm

[Onyx Z]

Thanks Onyx, you've been a true help. I'm going to start with the Win brass simply because its already sized and trimmed and I don't have the time to decrimp a few hundred LC brass right now. What is a good (most cost effective) method for doing so? I'll be using LC once I can find a way that doesn't take 30sec per case.

When making 300BLK brass I used to use a drill and a hornady tool but it was a total pain in the hand because the case would slip with the drill and pockets got ruined by being off-center.

No problem man, happy to help.

The only bad thing about LC brass is the initial prep required. I use a Lyman swaging toolhead (any brand will work) and chuck it in a drill and give the primer pocket a quick swage. Nothing too deep, just a quick zip (that's what she said) and you should be good to go. Occasionally I will get a primer that's tough to seat, but it's rare.

BTW, for more consistent headspace, remove the expander ball from the FL sizing die so it doesn't stretch the neck when pulling out. Then use a neck expander die to size the case mouth. On newish brass, I get very consistent neck tension and headspace. Then trim with your method of choice and chuck a deburring toolhead in a drill and give it another quick zip inside and outside the neck. Takes a while initially, but it's a one time ordeal.

[TomD]

New LC brass is often available, ie, no primer crimp. I've got 1500 in my shop that I have not even opened the box!

[Eurodriver]

No problem man, happy to help.

The only bad thing about LC brass is the initial prep required. I use a Lyman swaging toolhead (any brand will work) and chuck it in a drill and give the primer pocket a quick swage. Nothing too deep, just a quick zip (that's what she said) and you should be good to go. Occasionally I will get a primer that's tough to seat, but it's rare.

BTW, for more consistent headspace, remove the expander ball from the FL sizing die so it doesn't stretch the neck when pulling out. Then use a neck expander die to size the case mouth. On newish brass, I get very consistent neck tension and headspace. Then trim with your method of choice and chuck a deburring toolhead in a drill and give it another quick zip inside and outside the neck. Takes a while initially, but it's a one time ordeal.

Thanks again. I already did that actually as I learned that trick from my .308 loading days. I use a lyman M die to expand my necks on my .308 and .223 precision cases.

I'll try to swage the primer pockets correctly since I've got some brass I can work with for now. I would like to have 500 prepped LC cases eventually. I've got thousands of it cleaned and deprimed but that's it. What do you use to debur and chamfer? I have a hand held LE Wilson tool that works well but it sure is slow. It won't fit in a drill though, I don't think?

[Kansaswoodguy]

http://www.ch4d.com/products/equipment/priming-tools/psk

The swedger I have it works there maybe better ones out there RCBS I think makes one also

[Kansaswoodguy]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/394805/lyman-power-chamfer-and-deburring-tool-set

This is the chamfer set I use its way faster than doing it by hand

[bsoileau24]

I have been using the Lyman case prep center and love it.
http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/211733/lyman-case-prep-xpress-case-prep-center-115-volt?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Metallic+Reloading+Equipment+(Not+Presses)-_-Lyman-_-211733&gclid=CP_b_Ias88oCFY4lgQodFxgO4w

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[InfiniteGrim]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm currently waiting for the weather to become bearable. I've got the 69 and 77gr TMK versions to try out. I have Varget & XBR to play with. I think I'm going to go with XBR first, as I'm not a big fan of compressed loads with Varget, especially when I'm expecting these to sit lower into the case.

What I'm really curious about, is how the SMK & TMK's group and which is "better" for shooting groups.

[Onyx Z]

Thanks again. I already did that actually as I learned that trick from my .308 loading days. I use a lyman M die to expand my necks on my .308 and .223 precision cases.

I'll try to swage the primer pockets correctly since I've got some brass I can work with for now. I would like to have 500 prepped LC cases eventually. I've got thousands of it cleaned and deprimed but that's it. What do you use to debur and chamfer? I have a hand held LE Wilson tool that works well but it sure is slow. It won't fit in a drill though, I don't think?

I just drop the threaded end of the swaging toolhead into a drill chuck. I think it's an 1/8" thread, so it fits in a handheld drill just fine.

[InfiniteGrim]

Absolutely nothing special done for the brass except chamferring the mouth. Virgin LC brass, didn't even size it. Just used CCI 41's....

In fact I primed this brass 4-5 years ago and its been sitting in a bag since. (Just found it again a few nights ago)

Powder poured using Redding powder measure
Powder is XBR 8208

18" LaRue w/ Form 1 can. Looks promising! It was 35F out and 10-15mph constant wind... I think the degrading accuracy with the last 2 groups may have been me, as I had to stop and put gloves one. Using the Geissele DMR trigger with the light springs + the gloves it was hard to find the wall, I accidentally put a round downrange when I didn't expect trying to find the wall... surprisingly that round hit in the middle of the group each time. (I'm used to the very obvious wall of the LaRue MBT)

Target should actually be rotated clockwise 90 degrees)

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1614/25546339705_c132750dec_b.jpg