SHOT Show 2015 Pictures (From SMGLee)

[dayspring]

Take a gander at Geissele's site for a "Daily Special". It's a 13" MK1 with a blue tint.

[Highvoltage]

I like the feel of it so much, if it worked without altering the Stealth upper, I'd already have ordered a second 13" for my 16" gun. I don't really feel like I'm missing anything without the VFG or AFG, there is a good natural(to me) feeling hand stop right where the short rails start.

[ZINCOGNITO]

Work in progress.....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130524_151352_zpsbad61439.jpghttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130524_151627-1_zps73baadcb.jpg

[fourXfour]

Work in progress.....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130524_151352_zpsbad61439.jpghttp://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130524_151627-1_zps73baadcb.jpg

That is looking great!!

[ZINCOGNITO]

That is looking great!!

Thanks. I've been going back and forth with myself regarding the MK4. The lack of flanges similar to the Mk1/Mk2, QD "ears" and the overall lack of modularity makes this rail a no-go for me.

Now, if I can find a new 13" MK1/MK2....

[Vgex2]

The new MK2 rails lack the flanges as well.

[ZINCOGNITO]

The new MK2 rails lack the flanges as well.

Yeah, I'll have to watch for that. Thanks.

[vereceleritas]

What flanges are you guys referring to?

[mtdawg169]

What flanges are you guys referring to?

Look at the Mk1 vs the Mk2 & mk4. The Mk1 has wider anti rotation wings vs the smaller tabs on the Mk2 & Mk4.

[advan031]

Very impressed with the MK4

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/8896873277_da7c96457a_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5328/8896872829_3c61dfe697_b.jpg
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5464/8897492538_434c8ddcda_b.jpg


time to finish my 2nd build

[MIDGAPATRIOT]

I'm still on the fence about this.....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130524_064558_zps99c93a7b.jpg

What length barrel is that?

[ZINCOGNITO]

What length barrel is that?
14.5"....... I sold the MK4 and purchased an MK2.

[MIDGAPATRIOT]

14.5"....... I sold the MK4 and purchased an MK2... If it ever gets here.

What didn't you like about the MK4?

[ZINCOGNITO]

What didn't you like about the MK4?

You won't believe how many times I've been asked that question. PM me....

[Riddle]

You won't believe how many times I've been asked that question. PM me....

lol, im staying with the mk2 for now but ive still yet to get my hands on a 1 or 4 so who knows. the grass is always greener and whatnot, i guess

[JoJunior]

Very impressed with the MK4

time to finish my 2nd build

Is it from the current production?

Current production has no cutout at 6 o'clock right below the barrel nut.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2869/8884896309_211a794d7f_z.jpg

[advan031]

Mine has the cut outs.

[ZINCOGNITO]

lol, im staying with the mk2 for now but ive still yet to get my hands on a 1 or 4 so who knows. the grass is always greener and whatnot, i guess

I love Geissele's products but if they change their current rail's to resemble the Mk4 design, it'll be my last G rail.

[RustedAce]

I love Geissele's products but if they change their current rail's to resemble the Mk4 design, it'll be my last G rail.

??? Why?

I love the MK4

[Vgex2]

??? Why?

I love the MK4

I am not Zincognito, but they got rid of the wings/flanges and they did new asymmetrical weight reduction cutouts. I also would have preferred if the first production models and the pre-production model MK4 would have survived. But for me it is the aesthetics, and it is therefore secondary.

I have the MK4 and MK2 both 2nd run productions, and a first run MK1 with the wings and symmetrical cutouts. I prefer the styling of the MK1, however the weight savings are welcome in the MK2 and MK4.

[lengthofpull]

Per Geissele on TOS:

"Full Keymod is coming end of summer.

MK3 which is extremely nice will be released in 15" lengths this week"

[ZINCOGNITO]

Any pics of this MK3?

[vereceleritas]

Any pics of this MK3?

I'd be surprised if Trident didn't already have his hands on one.

[Kenneth]

I want a 13-15 inch rail that will accept a midlength FSP. That would be my ultimate rail IMO. My next rifle I'm going to the toughest fighting rifle period and that's what I would like to see.

[SRT-M4]

Just an updated pic of my "Recce" rifle with the Geisselle MK 2 SMR and SSA-E trigger.
I Cerakoted the Upper and lower receivers Patriot Brown.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/DSC_0026_zps783b3a65.jpg (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/SRT-M4/media/DSC_0026_zps783b3a65.jpg.html)

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/DSC_0027_zpsaeebbcef.jpg (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/SRT-M4/media/DSC_0027_zpsaeebbcef.jpg.html)

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/DSC_0029_zpsc9ed0bf5.jpg (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/SRT-M4/media/DSC_0029_zpsc9ed0bf5.jpg.html)

[ZINCOGNITO]

Just an updated pic of my "Recce" rifle with the Geisselle MK 2 SMR and SSA-E trigger.
I Cerakoted the Upper and lower receivers Patriot Brown.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/DSC_0026_zps783b3a65.jpg (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/SRT-M4/media/DSC_0026_zps783b3a65.jpg.html)

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/DSC_0027_zpsaeebbcef.jpg (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/SRT-M4/media/DSC_0027_zpsaeebbcef.jpg.html)

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p226/SRT-M4/DSC_0029_zpsc9ed0bf5.jpg (http://s129.photobucket.com/user/SRT-M4/media/DSC_0029_zpsc9ed0bf5.jpg.html)

I just went from six to midnight!:D

[ZINCOGNITO]

I was right about the MK2. I almost feel bad the sand finish getting stripped.....almost:D.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130603_162138-1-1_zps62d693c8.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/zincognito/media/20130603_162138-1-1_zps62d693c8.jpg.html)http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/zincognito/20130603_143411-1_zpsf281c7b3.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/zincognito/media/20130603_143411-1_zpsf281c7b3.jpg.html)

Many thanks to Anthony (Blak1508).

[ZINCOGNITO]

..........

[RXM]

Images of the 15" MK3. The MK3 bridges the gap between the MK1 and the MK2.

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-RB74M2X/0/XL/i-RB74M2X-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-dp2d3c3/0/XL/i-dp2d3c3-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-2kvSJhp/0/XL/i-2kvSJhp-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-PLdhW9w/0/XL/i-PLdhW9w-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-2nDXGZ7/0/XL/i-2nDXGZ7-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-sCSNK4k/0/XL/i-sCSNK4k-XL.jpg

[nml]

Cool. Are there any differences between the Mk1 and Mk3 aside from the steel inserts?

[Vgex2]

Images of the 15" MK3. The MK3 bridges the gap between the MK1 and the MK2.


What is the difference between the MK2 and MK3? I cannot tell from the pictures. Bridges the gap how? It looks like a slimmed down MK2. Thank you.

[RXM]

The MK3 features the MK1 3D machining with the MK2 accessory mounting system.

[Vgex2]

Does this make the MK2 redundant? What reason is there to purchase a MK3 vs a MK2? If the MK3 essentially does what the relatively "cost effective" MK2 does with backing the same plates, what is the point of the MK3? Greater weight reduction? Cheaper or faster to produce?

Thank you.

[Brown_Bear]

I really like the MK III. I wasn't sold on the new cut-out patterns on the bottom, but I really like that rail. Now to see if I can afford it....

[ZINCOGNITO]

Wow, I would actually buy this rail........... If they would have kept the mounting wings/flanges.

[jonconsiglio]

If I were buying the mk1 or mk2, I'd be interested in the mk1 because of it being a little lighter and it being slightly shorter top rail to bottom rail. If the mk3 has those measurements, that's great.

[Brown_Bear]

I've been looking for a 15" to replace my current 13" for a while. If by chance a MK III is available Wednesday, consider one mine!

[Blak1508]

You and me both bro, I do love the MK4 though, nothing is perfect and the things that I would change are small so I'm just happy to support a local company. I do however see a 15 inch MK3 in my near future :dance3:

[RXM]

Does this make the MK2 redundant? What reason is there to purchase a MK3 vs a MK2? If the MK3 essentially does what the relatively "cost effective" MK2 does with backing the same plates, what is the point of the MK3? Greater weight reduction? Cheaper or faster to produce?

Thank you.

Great questions that I do not have the answer to.

[Vgex2]

Great questions that I do not have the answer to.

Damn. Comparing the images of the MK3 to my MK2 Mod1 Rev C, there some differences. The MK3 flats are rounded with match rounded rail sections.
Obviously these rail sections will not be compatible with the MK2. It also appears the bottom rail section is tucked closer to the barrel.

So my conclusion based on the current revions:

MK1: (1)modularity, (Priciest, heaviest);

MK2: (1)cost effectiveness, (2)modularity, (3)weight reduction, (medium weight?, lowest cost, largest profile);

MK3: (1)modularity, (2)weight reduction, (3)reduced profile, (medium weight?; similar cost to MK4?, profile more similar to MK1);

MK4: (1)weight reduction; (2)slim profile, (mid-high cost; lightest, slimmest profile not including permanent rail section areas).

[hunt_ak]

QD sling mounts not rotation limited?

[Vgex2]

QD sling mounts not rotation limited?

My MK2 Rev C is "not" rotation limited, regarding the QD sling mounts.
My MK4 Rev B is rotation limited, regarding the QD Sling mounts.
My MK1 does not have QD sling mounts. :cray:

[Zane1844]

Didn't finish the build yet - I'll have it sometime after 6 PM EST.

ETA: As promised, attached is the image of the 9.5 MK4 attached to a barrel with a mid-length gas system. I don't think I would have any issues running the 9.5" handguard on there IF the gas block was pinned. Doesn't look like any of the gas tube is exposed.

My wife took my camera so I had to use my mobile phone.

Thanks, just saw that you edited this post and added the picture to it.

How do you like it?

Ideally 10" would have me sold.

[Riddle]

the mk3 looks like the latest revision of the mk2 but with a rounded profile (edit- maybe narrower like the mk1?). unless theres something that cant be seen (like its much lighter or something), the 3 is a let down for me.

[nml]

If it's the same OD as the Mk1 but a little lighter and cheaper and just as effective then I don't have a clue what you wanted. If you're throwing a single rail section on, having the steel inserts on the whole rail may not make sense right?

Not counting 416, he has 2 different profiles: round/small Mk1 (possibly Mk3) and flat profile of Mk2/Mk4. You have 3 with modular end rails and 1 with fixed, QD support and keymod forthcoming. He is pretty much getting all the options out there, keeping them up to date, and seeing what the market wants/will support. I like it.

[ZINCOGNITO]

If it's the same OD as the Mk1 but a little lighter and cheaper and just as effective then I don't have a clue what you wanted. If you're throwing a single rail section on, having the steel inserts on the whole rail may not make sense right?

Not counting 416, he has 2 different profiles: round/small Mk1 (possibly Mk3) and flat profile of Mk2/Mk4. You have 3 with modular end rails and 1 with fixed, QD support and keymod forthcoming. He is pretty much getting all the options out there, keeping them up to date, and seeing what the market wants/will support. I like it.

I don't think anyone here had any real complaints with the design of the MK1/2 aside from weight. It seems that the deviation of the original design is the issue. IMHO, the separation of MK1/2 from the MK3/4 in design would have made more sense while appealing to a much greater audience.

[Vgex2]

I don't think anyone here had any real complaints with the design of the MK1/2 aside from weight. It seems that the deviation of the original design is the issue. IMHO, the separation of MK1/2 from the MK3/4 in design would have made more sense while appealing to a much greater audience.

Yeah. Bring back the wings. Bring back the symmetry.

[Riddle]

If it's the same OD as the Mk1 but a little lighter and cheaper and just as effective then I don't have a clue what you wanted. If you're throwing a single rail section on, having the steel inserts on the whole rail may not make sense right?

i dont know if a slight change in profile is enough for me. maybe the mk1 profile feels better in hand than the flat mk2 but a whole new rail designation? its more like another mk2 revision. like another person said above, doesnt this make the mk2 redundant? Of course, im just basing this off of the few pics that have been posted- specs will be more informative (i am curious about the weight).
I guess overall, i was expecting something more. i guess i'll have to wait for the mk5:D

[advan031]

They got rid of the wings so that it fits more uppers right? If so, then it makes sense getting rid of it.

[Freedoooom]

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-2nDXGZ7/0/XL/i-2nDXGZ7-XL.jpg



http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/c779ad0428e9fc21abdc8805adfae62a.jpg

Only difference I can detect.

[RXM]

Thanks, just saw that you edited this post and added the picture to it.

How do you like it?

Ideally 10" would have me sold.

The 9.5" rail is nice and light but I personally run the 13" MK4 on my guns because my shooting position places my support hand slightly forward of where the 9.5" rail ends. While the MK1 feels the best on my hands and looks aesthetically pleasing, I did not need the modularity and the weight reduction of the MK4 was appealing (esp if you use the aluminum barrel nut).

I do not know the rationale behind the various lengths offered but I do know that Bill is very receptive to end-user input (e.g., QD swivel slings, weight reductions via barrel nut and relief cuts, new lengths, etc). In my experience, manufacturers that incorporate functional changes to their products based on customer feedback within a relatively short amount of time from product launch are few and far between.

[RXM]

They got rid of the wings so that it fits more uppers right? If so, then it makes sense getting rid of it.

This is just me giving my opinion on the extended anti-rotational flanges (EARFs)

1. The removal of the EARFs did not decrease an anti-rotation integrity of the rail.

2. The EARFs caused compatibility issues with some upper receivers.

3. Reduction of weight.

Aside from aesthetics, is there a functional reason why the EARFs is desirable?

[smac61]

Anyone know what, if any, changes have been made to the MK1 since introduction? I have had a 15" mk1 on order for quite some time and am curious what to expect...

Thanks

[jonconsiglio]

Damn. Comparing the images of the MK3 to my MK2 Mod1 Rev C, there some differences. The MK3 flats are rounded with match rounded rail sections.
Obviously these rail sections will not be compatible with the MK2. It also appears the bottom rail section is tucked closer to the barrel.

So my conclusion based on the current revions:

MK1: (1)modularity, (Priciest, heaviest);

MK2: (1)cost effectiveness, (2)modularity, (3)weight reduction, (medium weight?, lowest cost, largest profile);

MK3: (1)modularity, (2)weight reduction, (3)reduced profile, (medium weight?; similar cost to MK4?, profile more similar to MK1);

MK4: (1)weight reduction; (2)slim profile, (mid-high cost; lightest, slimmest profile not including permanent rail section areas).


I thought the MK2 was cheaper but heavier than the MK1?

[Freedoooom]

I thought the MK2 was cheaper but heavier than the MK1?

First version was heavier, newer version is lighter. Mk1 is 18.4 ounces and the Mk2 is 16.6 ounces now.

[Riddle]

First version was heavier, newer version is lighter. Mk1 is 18.4 ounces and the Mk2 is 16.6 ounces now.

Really? I would think that even the first version of the mk2 would be lighter

[SMT85]

just grabbed a 10" mod 1 rev A at rogtac. they have black and sand in stock. and some nsr's i think. figured i let you guys know if you were looking for one.

[ejskle]

I can't believe the complaining about the looks of the bottom cutouts. They're functionally superior. Light-weight and prevent a finger from potentially touching a hot barrel.

Function > Aesthetics. I'd expect more support for that sentiment here.

[ejskle]

I agree with this completely. I don't know why they'd keep the rails at the ends for the Keymod version. I'd prefer full keymod from front to back, including the angled rails like the KAC URX4. It's improved functionality.


If the Geissele rail and URX4 had a love child, I'd have found my next rail. I like the mounting design of the Geissele rails, but the keymod implementation on the URX4 seems ideal. I like the slick design and the ability to mount keymod accessories on the 45's. Will someone please pass this on to Bill? ;)

[Wake27]

I can't believe the complaining about the looks of the bottom cutouts. They're functionally superior. Light-weight and prevent a finger from potentially touching a hot barrel.

Function > Aesthetics. I'd expect more support for that sentiment here.

I wasn't saying they looked bad, I was just wondering why the difference in design between the top and bottom vents. I think that's what most of us were getting at.

[smac61]

I can't believe the complaining about the looks of the bottom cutouts. They're functionally superior. Light-weight and prevent a finger from potentially touching a hot barrel.

Function > Aesthetics. I'd expect more support for that sentiment here.

Sorry but they look hokie compared to the more symmetrical look it had. To dismiss aesthetics as trivial or unimportant ignores the fact that many people use aesthetics as at least part of their decision...

I have went from 100% certain I'm going to run a 15" MK1 on my range toy to 99% sure because of it ;)

[ejskle]

Yeah, that would look nicer, no doubt. On another thread, Bill Geissele explained that decision: https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1665916&postcount=41


I wasn't saying they looked bad, I was just wondering why the difference in design between the top and bottom vents. I think that's what most of us were getting at.

[RXM]

For those that are interested, the MK3 will be available through the Geissele website in a few weeks. They're just waiting on a few more parts and they'll post them when they're ready to ship. My best guess is that the 15" rails will be available first with subsequent rail sizes to follow.

[Nka727]

These look like they could be ideal for several purposes and will replace a lot of other rails.

[RXM]

Yeah, that would look nicer, no doubt. On another thread, Bill Geissele explained that decision: https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=1665916&postcount=41

Just to expand on this, the design change was driven by end-user requests. I met with Bill yesterday and shared the feelings some of you have shared regarding the original design. He was receptive to it but you may want to hit up the Geissele facebook page and share your thoughts with him.

[chungdae]

I have this rail on my 416. The quality is breathtaking. It also lowers the profile and feels lighter compared to the standard rail.

[Americanel]

I have this rail on my 416. The quality is breathtaking. It also lowers the profile and feels lighter compared to the standard rail.

the short geissele rail is more lighter then original h&k, the 13.6 version is little bit heavier then original short

[RXM]

Are those 15" rails I see???

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-4Pqb2Lw/0/XL/i-4Pqb2Lw-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-mffKW3H/0/XL/i-mffKW3H-XL.jpg

Oh yea...and the 10's. Can't forget those 10's...

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-KSkPcF4/0/XL/i-KSkPcF4-XL.jpg

[Brown_Bear]

I'm too poor to keep hangin' out in this thread, man. Maybe I can hide next month's bank statement from my fiance...

[Elfshooter]

Looking for a black 13" Mk 4. Anyone know who might have them?

[ZINCOGNITO]

Just to expand on this, the design change was driven by end-user requests. I met with Bill yesterday and shared the feelings some of you have shared regarding the original design. He was receptive to it but you may want to hit up the Geissele facebook page and share your thoughts with him.

I get why he made the changes but if he had the MK3 & MK4 in the works, wouldn't it have been easier to apply those changes only to them instead of the entire line up? I like Geissele's products but it's unfortunate some of us won't be able to run an Mk1 like the one on The Jack.

[lengthofpull]

I received this information from Stan at Geissele yesterday regarding SMR widths. Thought it may be helpful to others.

"Mk1 1.777
Mk2 1.913
Mk3 1.952
Mk4 2.105 at the end (where accessory rails are), 1.871 body of rail"

-LOP

[ALCOAR]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/s720x720/179716_10151421003601685_2011503568_n.jpg

[TMS951]

I would like to buy a Geissele SMR MK1 13" Black Mod.0

This means it has full "wings" on it and the cut outs at the 4 and 8 o'clock positions are elongated and not the new "pear shape" as seen on the SMR MK.4

The style in this thread is what I am looking for:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109644

If any one can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.
Thank you.

[RXM]

I would like to buy a Geissele SMR MK1 13" Black Mod.0

This means it has full "wings" on it and the cut outs at the 4 and 8 o'clock positions are elongated and not the new "pear shape" as seen on the SMR MK.4

The style in this thread is what I am looking for:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=109644

If any one can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.
Thank you.

Unfortunately, I think the only ones that you'll find are used as there are no MK1 Mod 0 at the shop. I've relayed comments regarding the rail back to Mr. Geissele regarding this so he is aware.

[RXM]

Grabbed this from the shop earlier this week - 10" MK1 Mod 1 Sand

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-dRFssC4/0/XL/i-dRFssC4-XL.jpg

13" MK1 Mod 1 Black

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-hH4vzBv/0/XL/i-hH4vzBv-XL.jpg

[hunt_ak]

A few of these rails that are popping up in the pic thread are showing a VERY copper/orange color to them. Is that just a white balance/screen issue for me or what?

[Blak1508]

I will get you the specs

[ejskle]

Yeah, I hate to say it, but the new reddish color looks pretty awful. I wonder what the story is on that.

[TMS951]

Unfortunately, I think the only ones that you'll find are used as there are no MK1 Mod 0 at the shop. I've relayed comments regarding the rail back to Mr. Geissele regarding this so he is aware.

Thank you!

I know used is my best chance, I also posted in the EE and the "where can I get it thread"

I really hope a production run is done in the future of a MK.1 that is more reminiscent of the 416 rail done for Delta.

I understand the new cut outs are lighter, but much like the end user the 416 rail was made for I don't care as much about weight as I do strength. I am sure the new cut outs are strong too, but based on physics they can't 'as strong'.

I also really liked the symmetry of the original design. I think the new cut outs really have their place on the MK.4 where it is all about weight savings, but I am kicking myself for not jumping on the original MK.1. Had I known about the changes I would have jumped on it, but wrongly figured I could just get one later on.

Oh, well. Hopefully an original will come up for sale at some point!

[ejskle]

Unfortunately, I think the only ones that you'll find are used as there are no MK1 Mod 0 at the shop. I've relayed comments regarding the rail back to Mr. Geissele regarding this so he is aware.

RXM, if you're giving feedback to Mr. Geissele, please let him know that at least some of us prefer the lighter weight that comes with the new design.

[nml]

Lighter weight, better mounting and QD.

[MountainRaven]

Dumb question: Anyone know of anybody making a direct connect handstop for the SMR Mk1?

[ALCOAR]

Dumb question: Anyone know of anybody making a direct connect handstop for the SMR Mk1?

IWC has one that will mount directly....I'm not sure exactly which MOE model works the best however. I would just contact IWS directly and ask them which model works the best.

This is a quote from IWC from awhile ago...

"We haven't updated the site for SMR's yet. In the meantime, order this: Weapon Control Hand Stop and select ANY of the MOE handguards. You'll get our revised handstop that bolt directly to G-SMR's without any gap, wobble or rails required.

MOUNT-N-SLOT "

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/product/weapon-control-mount/

[MountainRaven]

Ah. Excellent. What I get for shifting my attention elsewhere for a while. Much thanks!

[mig1nc]

I agree with this completely. I don't know why they'd keep the rails at the ends for the Keymod version. I'd prefer full keymod from front to back, including the angled rails like the KAC URX4. It's improved functionality.

+1 on this. I hope the keymod goes all the way to the end, and basically like you said, on 7 sides like the URX4.

If I want rails on the end, I can just put them there.

[RXM]

RXM, if you're giving feedback to Mr. Geissele, please let him know that at least some of us prefer the lighter weight that comes with the new design.

Next time I see him I'll pass along the word. Appreciate the feedback.

[Vgex2]

Next time I see him I'll pass along the word. Appreciate the feedback.

Lightweight is fine. I want the wings!!!!

[ALCOAR]

I too was a really big fan of the full wings on the first Mk1 models......for every other model, I think moving to a more lightweight wing/anti rotation design is a positive move.

The Mk1 in my eyes is the no expense spared (steel inserted attachment screw holes ), truly bombproof FF rail. It's original design has a direct lineage to the HK GA SMR rail that was designed for the hardest of uses. That made it very unique in my book.

The thing I don't like about the first Mk1/Mk2s...which has since been addressed in the current design, is the protruding cross bolt heads. They are not really streamlined into the design at all like they currently are on all SMR models.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC08511.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC08511.jpg.html)

[RXM]

Geissele 13" SMR MK1 Mod 1, low profile Super Gas Block, and SSA trigger. Very light setup. I'll have to weigh it next time I'm near a scale.

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-xL5z5Vp/1/XL/i-xL5z5Vp-XL.jpg

[TMS951]

RXM,
Do you know the weight of the new MK.1 configuration off the gun?

Thanks,
TMS

[RXM]

RXM,
Do you know the weight of the new MK.1 configuration off the gun?

Thanks,
TMS

Funny you should ask that. I'm planning on dropping by the shop to weigh the rifle and the individual components later this week (maybe even today). In short, I'll have your answer soon.

[RXM]

Okay, here are the numbers...

The rifle as you see it configured weighed 7.08lbs.

The 13" MK1 Mod 1 rail, aluminum barrel nut, screw, and dogbone weighed 14.560 oz.

The small and large accessory rails weighed 0.465 and 0.820 oz, respectively. I forgot to weigh the screws.

I hope this helps.

[Roadblock]

I was all set to buy the 13" SMR MK4 but then I saw the picture of the MK1 MOD1 and now I'm torn between the two.

I did not like the look of the way the MK1 MOD0 mounted but the new MOD1 looks nice.

So torn!

[arkmm]

There was talk of a direct connect handstop. I thought I'd just leave this right here.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn290/thearkmm/Rail_zps65e5b86c.jpg

I apologize in advance for the craptacular iPhone photo and will take a better one when I have time

[Blak1508]

Very nice ! Where can I pick one up :D

[Cylinder Head]

I've been going back and forth on rails for my new build and I'm sold on an SMR. Can anyone tell me where to find a Mk1 Mod 1, 13" in black?

[arkmm]

Thanks. All you need is a Larue direct connect handstop and a dremel

[RXM]

15" SMR MK1 Mod 1 rail on SPR; great top view of the relief cuts that were first introduced with the MK4.

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-fMzmKRr/2/XL/_MG_0109-Edit-XL.jpg

[Biggy]

Any more info on the MK4 keymod rail as to when we might see finalized in the white prototype or CAD pics ? Also, the height,width and weight specs on it.

[RXM]

No info on ETA or specs on the keymod.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Blak1508]

Never mind

[Hunter2878]

Guys,
FYI.

Geissele has the new MK3 10" and 15" in black available on their website. I haven't seen them at any vendor yet. The MK3 has the aluminum barrel nut.

http://geissele.com/supermodularrailmkiii.aspx

[mtdawg169]

No info on ETA or specs on the keymod.



Is there any chance the keymod version will have rail sections on the 45's, similar to the URX 4? A keymod SMR with an octagonal shape and slick rails would be excellent.

[Wake27]

Is there any chance the keymod version will have rail sections on the 45's, similar to the URX 4? A keymod SMR with an octagonal shape and slick rails would be excellent.

I bet a regular SMR with 45* rail sections would do well, but just remembered that's where they cut a lot of the weight so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[mtdawg169]

I bet a regular SMR with 45* rail sections would do well, but just remembered that's where they cut a lot of the weight so I wouldn't hold my breath.

You're probably right, but after looking at the other keymod rail designs, I don't know why anyone would design a keymod rail differently. The ability to add offset irons or a light at the 45's makes sense for alot of reasons.

[nml]

That's what offset mounts are for. Mounting on the 45 means the mount itself is likely to get in the way with anything on the top rail.

[mtdawg169]

That's what offset mounts are for. Mounting on the 45 means the mount itself is likely to get in the way with anything on the top rail.

Not necessarily. For example, the KAC offset irons (keymod type) are very low profile. An offset mount would require a rail section and mount = more weight and unnecessary parts. Keymod by design should be simple and lightweight. 45 degree capability would add versatility and simplicity.

[nml]

Guess I'd have to see it. I do have a keymod gun in use along with Geissele super mod rail uppers and have been able to mount everything anything 110%.

[Jaysop]

Okay, here are the numbers...

The rifle as you see it configured weighed 7.08lbs.

The 13" MK1 Mod 1 rail, aluminum barrel nut, screw, and dogbone weighed 14.560 oz.

The small and large accessory rails weighed 0.465 and 0.820 oz, respectively. I forgot to weigh the screws.

I hope this helps.

EDIT: maybe it's not a dead thread, oops.

I was under the impression that these were very heavy. Much more than this. Also I thought these came with the steel barrel nut. If not I think I'll be looking at this before the MK4.

[RXM]

The MK1 comes with the steel barrel nut and not the aluminum. The rifle above has an aluminum barrel nut to remove approximately 2 ounces.

ETA - just add 2 oz to the weight above for the steel barrel nut.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[RXM]

Folks, MK3 Mod1 are coming out the pipeline. MK3s are shipping with the aluminum barrel nut.

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-cBQ6zzW/0/XL/i-cBQ6zzW-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-qSwfBhT/0/XL/i-qSwfBhT-XL.jpg

13" MK1 Mod 1

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-fC73Hs8/0/XL/i-fC73Hs8-XL.jpg

15" MK2 Mod 1

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-tL8mqjT/0/XL/i-tL8mqjT-XL.jpg

[mtdawg169]

Can we get a comparison picture of the Mk1, Mk2 & Mk3 rails showing the end of the rails so we can compare the profiles? Measurements would be great too.

[RXM]

Whenever I get a free moment I'll take the pictures of the front end. For measurements, you'll have to contact the folks at Geissele.

[mtdawg169]

Whenever I get a free moment I'll take the pictures of the front end. For measurements, you'll have to contact the folks at Geissele.

Thanks. I'm trying to decide between the mk1 & Mk3 rails. Does anyone know the weight difference on the 13" versions?

[RXM]

Thanks. I'm trying to decide between the mk1 & Mk3 rails. Does anyone know the weight difference on the 13" versions?

Just eyeballing the MK1 and the MK3, the MK3 appears to be 1mm thicker on each side to accommodate the accessory mounting system. The MK3 ships with the aluminum barrel nut which should save you 2 ounces in weight compared to the MK1 that ships with the steel barrel nut. Aluminum barrel nuts can be ordered through Geissele for $45.

[C4IGrant]

MK4 13" black rails are in stock!

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MK4_13_BLK



C4

[GLOCKCRAZZ]

MK4 13" black rails are in stock!

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MK4_13_BLK



C4

Nice...Ordered :D

[Hunter2878]

Will the MK3 be made in 13"?

I've been waiting for MK3 13" sand or grey..

[RXM]

Second picture posted is the MK3 in 13". I have not seen a sand or gray MK3 at the shop.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Brown_Bear]

Hipwrguitar posted some photos of the AR-10 MK IV SMR (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/238628_Geissele_Prototype_7_62_Rail.html) prototype

[Hunter2878]

I hope they make it easier to mount a bipod on the AR10 version.

I dont own an SMR yet but as I read through the threads it sounded like some guys weren't completely happy with bipod mount options.

[Brown_Bear]

I'm running an Atlas bipod on my MK II, and it works great. I'm sure a direct mount for a Harris would be sweet, but I don't really think it's a deal breaker.

[t1tan]

Geissele posted up some pictures on facebook today, 45* Scout mount for MKI II III IV listed as under $20 and a bipod stud

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/q71/s720x720/1003840_10151537813390233_2011142437_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q71/s720x720/999686_10151537814130233_1891630443_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q79/s720x720/1016793_10151537811880233_2021621932_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q71/s720x720/1004645_10151537815680233_1068852621_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262607_10151537874705233_257745391_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1069876_10151537871945233_2012169593_n.jpg

[advan031]

Geissele posted a 45 degree qd swivel mount as well on fb.

[RXM]

Stopped by the shop to play with the new accessories. If you own a MK series rail and want to add a light, this is an awesome setup. The mount allows for the light to ride really close to the rail for a very trim look. Official pictures will be available sometime soon.

[jpmuscle]

I wonder if that light mount would be compatible with the NSR.

[ZINCOGNITO]

Stopped by the shop to play with the new accessories. If you own a MK series rail and want to add a light, this is an awesome setup. The mount allows for the light to ride really close to the rail for a very trim look. Official pictures will be available sometime soon.

What time frame for sale are we looking at?

[C4IGrant]

MK4 13" (Sand) Rails are in stock!

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MK4_13_SAND



C4

[Jaysop]

So I just got a MK1 Mod1 in the mail today. I don't know if I'm fully sold on this thing yet.

I'm having a problem with my QD sockets not working. I clip in and they just don't seat. I tried 5 different ones and only one actually worked right on this rail. All five work just fine on otherwise.
Anyone else have this issue?

[RXM]

No ETA on release date.

SureFire Scout light with 45 degree offset. Just another option for customers.

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-DfBF8fD/0/XL/i-DfBF8fD-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-qWbhBkd/0/XL/i-qWbhBkd-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-zLHjrXv/0/XL/i-zLHjrXv-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-9G9wwzS/0/XL/i-9G9wwzS-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-k9HW3zp/0/XL/i-k9HW3zp-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-zLxLLGK/0/XL/i-zLxLLGK-XL.jpg

QD Swivel

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-6gBvZ6F/0/XL/i-6gBvZ6F-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-CV6c8rH/0/XL/i-CV6c8rH-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-KCnzPzf/0/XL/i-KCnzPzf-XL.jpg

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-VwJ5ZDs/0/XL/i-VwJ5ZDs-XL.jpg

[Brown_Bear]

Am I crazy, or has no one noticed that the Harris is directly attached to the rail? rail adapter also in the works?

[RXM]

Am I crazy, or has no one noticed that the Harris is directly attached to the rail? rail adapter also in the works?

I think that's a prototype direct attach swivel option. I say prototype b/c it wasn't given to me for production photos :)

[Brown_Bear]

That's EXACTLY what I've been waiting for.

[advan031]

RXM,

Any pics of the scout light mount with a front buis?

[RXM]

RXM,

Any pics of the scout light mount with a front buis?

Not yet; didn't have an extra set laying around when I did the images.

[RXM]

So I just got a MK1 Mod1 in the mail today. I don't know if I'm fully sold on this thing yet.

I'm having a problem with my QD sockets not working. I clip in and they just don't seat. I tried 5 different ones and only one actually worked right on this rail. All five work just fine on otherwise.
Anyone else have this issue?

Call or email the shop and they'll get you squared away.

[Jaysop]

Call or email the shop and they'll get you squared away.

I did, they mentioned something about my parts not being "mil spec" QD swivels. I didnt know there was a mil spec for them. I'd imagine that Noveske and Daniel Defense would make them within spec.

[TMS951]

I would love to see how that Scout Light mount works with BUIS, looks like it might be tight.

[sagmill]

I did, they mentioned something about my parts not being "mil spec" QD swivels. I didnt know there was a mil spec for them. I'd imagine that Noveske and Daniel Defense would make them within spec.

I don't think there is a spec for the swivels, they were mistaken in saying that. That being said we have seen a wide variation in some of the swivels out there. It is entirely possible that you have bad swivels or that the QD socket we cut is not right. Give me a call tomorrow and we will work it out

WHG

[sagmill]

I would love to see how that Scout Light mount works with BUIS, looks like it might be tight.

Depends upon the BUIS. We are getting a riser going that will clear the body of the Scout light on a Troy BUIS. So the shooter will have a choice to go very tight to the rail or have the light out a little bit.

[Mate]

Guys, I've read through this thread the best that I can but I can't waste any more time on this. Can someone please direct me to a place that describes the difference between the rails? I can obviously tell what the point of the MK1 and MK4, but not the MK2 and MK3. I'm sure this has been talked a out before, but I can't find it.

Thanks in advance,
Mate

[RXM]

Guys, I've read through this thread the best that I can but I can't waste any more time on this. Can someone please direct me to a place that describes the difference between the rails? I can obviously tell what the point of the MK1 and MK4, but not the MK2 and MK3. I'm sure this has been talked a out before, but I can't find it.

Thanks in advance,
Mate

MK1>MK3>MK2

The MK3 is similar to the MK1 in that it is 3D machined and has a contour along the 3, 6 and 9. The MK3 is similar to the MK2 in terms of mounting system for the accessory rails (e.g., back plate) but features the MK1's contoured rails that will fit flush with the contoured rail. The MK2 is flat designed which requires less machining time which allows it to be offered at a lower cost than the MK1 and MK3.

If you're looking for the top of the line Geissele rail, go with the MK1. Second to the MK1 is the MK3 which is very similar in feel but has the MK2 accessory mounting system.

[TMS951]

Weight difference between MK.3 and MK.1?

Does the MK.3 use the steel or aluminum barrel nut?

[Blak1508]

Weight difference between MK.3 and MK.1?

Does the MK.3 use the steel or aluminum barrel nut?

MK3 comes with aluminum and Mk1 steel.

Weight of the MK 3 15 inch is 14.6 oz without hardware or castle nut with hardware 15.4 oz and castle nut 16.8 oz
From RXM
The 13" MK1 Mod 1 rail, aluminum barrel nut, screw, and dogbone weighed 14.560 oz

[Hunter2878]

This is from my research/spreadsheet. Gathered from all over the place sorry to anyone who is nitpicking.
I bought a 13" Mk1 and an Al nut from Geissele :dance3:

MK1: Steel Barrel nut,Rounded sides, accessory rails attach directly to the handguard sides without backing plates, width 1.777"
10" $325
13" $345 (16.7oz)
15" $370

MK2: Steel Barrel nut, Flat sides, accessory rails attach to dog bone shaped backing plates that are inserted in channels inside the handguard, Width 1.913"
9.5" $250 (10.25oz)
13" $270 (16.66 oz)
15" $300

MK3: Aluminum Barrel nut, Rounded sides like the MK1, accessory rails attach to dog bone shaped backing plates that are inserted in channels inside the handguard.
10" $300
15" $355

MK4: Aluminum Barrel nut, Quad rail at the muzzle end then flat sides toward the receiver. Width 2.105-2.3" (muzzle) / 1.871" (rear)
9.5" $300 (9.93oz)
13" $325 (11.95oz)

Internal Diameters are about 1.37"
Aluminum nut 1.4oz, steel nut 3.6oz.
Aluminum nut is $45 on Geissele's website
Add roughly 1oz per inch between sizes
Add about $25 to get sand instead of black (although Midway may have messed up their pricing because they're the same)

[snakedoctor]

I almost hugged the UPS guy! I've been waiting on this rail for quite a while and I'm very impressed with it.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3819/9558517360_2fdd3c9bce_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/57942327@N05/9558517360/)

Thank You Bill :dance3:

[dayspring]

I almost hugged the UPS guy! I've been waiting on this rail for quite a while and I'm very impressed with it.


Thank You Bill :dance3:

Do you have the means to weigh the rail and barrel nut? I'm very curious on the 13".

[snakedoctor]

Do you have the means to weigh the rail and barrel nut? I'm very curious on the 13".

SMR and new aluminum barrel nut weighed in at 15.1 oz. Hope that helps.

[RXM]

Folks, the QD attachment is now available on the Geissele website: http://geissele.com/45quickdetachswivelmount.aspx

[vereceleritas]

Folks, the QD attachment is now available on the Geissele website: http://geissele.com/45quickdetachswivelmount.aspx

Nice. Any ETA on the scout light mount?

[RXM]

No ETA on the Scout lights yet but I would think that they're not too far behind. I was very impressed with the weight of the Scout light.

[mikeith]

called them today on the scout mounts. they said to check back in about 2 weeks

[TrueSonPatriot1985]

Ok, probably a noob question here but here goes:

I've got a 10.3" SBR and an AAC suppressor that I mount with a Brakeout device. I want to get a new rail to replace my current Gen1 MI free float.

I'm seriously considering a Geissele rail, but I want to make sure I get the correct one in terms of length. I want the rail to come as close to the end of the suppressor as possible without interfering with the can. So do I want a 9.5" MK2 or a 10" Mk3? (I don't really like the MK4)

Does anyone have any pics of the 9.5 and 10" rails on SBR guns?

If I don't end up with a Geissele, I'm likely to go with a MK18 RIS II from DD.

Thanks guys.

[Koshinn]

Ok, probably a noob question here but here goes:

I've got a 10.3" SBR and an AAC suppressor that I mount with a Brakeout device. I want to get a new rail to replace my current Gen1 MI free float.

I'm seriously considering a Geissele rail, but I want to make sure I get the correct one in terms of length. I want the rail to come as close to the end of the suppressor as possible without interfering with the can. So do I want a 9.5" MK2 or a 10" Mk3? (I don't really like the MK4)

Does anyone have any pics of the 9.5 and 10" rails on SBR guns?

If I don't end up with a Geissele, I'm likely to go with a MK18 RIS II from DD.

Thanks guys.

Your threading is 1/2", so a 10" rail on a 10.3" barrel is probably a no-go unless you use a whole bunch of shims, which isn't a great idea. Go with a 9.5".

[TrueSonPatriot1985]

Your threading is 1/2", so a 10" rail on a 10.3" barrel is probably a no-go unless you use a whole bunch of shims, which isn't a great idea. Go with a 9.5".

I guess a more direct question is are Geissele rails exactly the length as listed, or is there some variance? I know a lot of times they are fractions of inches longer or shorter than listed. My current MI rails is listed as a 9" rail, but it is actually 9.18X" long. The new gen2 MI rail is actually 9.25", etc.

On Geissele's site, the HK rail is listed as a 10.5", but in the description it says it is 9.7 inches...that is why I'm wondering. Anybody that has these rails care to take a tape measure to it and post some pics?

http://geissele.com/105supermodularrailhkblack.aspx

[sagmill]

HK rails reference the specific upper they were designed for i.e. 10.5" upper or 14.5" upper. The actual length of the rail is different from its designation.

AR-15 rails are the exact length measured from the face of the upper receiver. (The end of the Picatinny rail on top of the upper)

[CoryCop25]

Ok, probably a noob question here but here goes:

I've got a 10.3" SBR and an AAC suppressor that I mount with a Brakeout device. I want to get a new rail to replace my current Gen1 MI free float.

I'm seriously considering a Geissele rail, but I want to make sure I get the correct one in terms of length. I want the rail to come as close to the end of the suppressor as possible without interfering with the can. So do I want a 9.5" MK2 or a 10" Mk3? (I don't really like the MK4)

Does anyone have any pics of the 9.5 and 10" rails on SBR guns?

If I don't end up with a Geissele, I'm likely to go with a MK18 RIS II from DD.

Thanks guys.

With AAC products, if you can see the wrench flats of the suppressor mount in front of the rail, your can will fit. If the wrench flats are covered by the rail, your can will only fit if the rail has a larger diameter than your can.

[mattg1024]

I just got an MK4 and like it so far. I wish the area around the QD slots were beefed up a little more. All the QD sockets I've tried have quite a bit of play in them.

[Bearded_Brometheus]

The Mk1 is a thing of beauty. Here it is on my MUR w/ Noveske barrel. It's killing me that I have to wait 4+ months for my AX556 to finish the build. :cray:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7420/9752737582_a1af00e3c7_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/9752952776_eac039da2b_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/9752952776_eac039da2b_z.jpg

[RXM]

Top down view of the 15" MK1 Mod 1 on my SPR.

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-twnprmt/0/XL/i-twnprmt-XL.jpg

[Blak1508]

RXM, thanks for allowing me to test out your MK1, I talked to the gentleman at Geissele on Thursday and made a trip up there to pick one up. You guys were not lying about that rail.



I wrote my thoughts on every rail from Geissele that I have tried and l here are some quick cliff notes about them.

Mark 2 Mod 0? 13 inch FDE "sand"
Before the present revision with the cutouts- Solid rail, barebones, a bit on the heavy side but a nice piece of equip. I probaly spent the least amount of range time with this rail so take it for what its worth. Great for all purpose M4. Rail seemed to be a bit wide all around when gripping rail. Best FDE or sand color I had with Geissele series.

Mark 4 13 inch "sand"- light rail, very light, again solid not much accessory rail estate, does not come with rail inserts, IMO this is the best choice for a weight saving or lightweight build, SBR, or standard purpose. Again I felt the profile was wide when the rail portion flares out. I found sometimes my grip on this rail felt awkward, I like my support hand further out on my rail and because of this a comfortable stable grip was to be desired, this is I am sure is a user thing and with enough range/training work I am sure I could remedy this. I did however enjoy this rail very much and I think I will be utilizing this rail in a future build, it's just not what I was looking for on my present build. FDE "Sand" was a bit off but still a very nice color, more of a dark burnt sand color. I think there are people out there who will love this rail or hate it.

Mark 3 15 inch FDE "Sand"

As we all have heard this rail bridges the gap from the Mark 1 & 2. At the time when I had this rail I had only used the MK2 & MK4 so I did not really know what that meant as far as profile or how wide it was in relation to the 1 & 2. I thought this rail was great. Very solid, in your hand the rail just has a different feel from the Mark 4 and its felt stronger than the Mark 2, your support hand feels closer to the barrel, so I felt I had more control of the rifle. For the 15 inch lenght I was very pleased on how light it felt. The Mark 3 also has rail inserts. I feel this rail specially in this length is great for SPR-multi purpose Builds. The color was my least favorite but that may have been a batch and not the standard, not really important.

Mark 1 13 inch black- after putting this rail on I had to check my pants, the profile is slim, the rail is bomb proof and as others have said, it's a work of art. The way this rail feels in the hand is hard to explain, I will just say it felt almost natural. The jump from the Mark 3 to the Mark 1 was like night and day. I felt like as soon as I put the rail on and ran it through some drills, my time spent looking for a rail was over. I also thought that the rail inserts for the MK1 were improved and also the way the inserts attached to the rail was improved from the Mark 2 & 3

I will update this more with pictures of each and the end result. I have kept everything on this build basically the same except for the rail. I feel as though all of these rails are GTG and think that they all have their strong points and a general or specific purpose. I had a buddy who knew a lot more than I do break down what he felt their intended purpose was and after testing and researching the rails in those terms I think he was correct. All of these can suffice as a general or multipurpose rail and I do not think any will disappoint. What it came down to for me was a balance of weight, profile, user specific comfort and where the MK1 excelled, construction. If I could go back I would have started with this rail, but as I said I now see myself using the Mark 4 for a different type of build.

[RXM]

Great review but posts like that without pictures are useless :D

[Seifer]

Just IMHO about keymod MK4 :rolleyes:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7930/t5ai.jpg

[Brown_Bear]

Just IMHO about keymod MK4 :rolleyes:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7930/t5ai.jpg

That's an interesting idea. I'd make the argument, though, that keymod slots on the "3" regions would be nice for panels/QD points. In any event, I think a 15" MK4 Keymod would be wonderful.

[TrueSonPatriot1985]

I know I saw the answer to this somewhere in the last 20 pages or so of this thread, but for the life of me can't find it again:

What is the difference in weight between the steel barrel nut that comes with the MKII rails and the new aluminum barrel nuts?

I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a MKII 9.5" rail for my SBR, just trying to decide if its worth it to buy the aluminum barrel nut extra to make it as light weight as possible.:)

[BH321]

Just IMHO about keymod MK4 :rolleyes:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7930/t5ai.jpg

I agree with this, though my only comment would be to make the first two or three holes at three o'clock keymod so as to allow the attachment of QD points rear of any devices on the picatinny rails.

[jpmuscle]

I could get into a 15" MK4 keymod but honestly just make the entire 3/6/9 rail sides full keymod. Given the number keymod accessories including rail sections out now and with more to come I see no reason why to keep a 1913 section in those areas. If its going to be a keymod make it 100% keymod.

[ALCOAR]

Using the keymod in this very limited fashion keeps the original MK4 design intact, and seals up the only real potential drawback to it for many folks including myself.

I've never been a full keymod designed rail fan, but again in a very limited use I see obviously benefit to it's design if for only this one use.

RXM...hopefully I can use your pic to just show what I'm getting at, if not I have no problem removing it.

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/mk41-1.jpg





Weight comparisons b/t the older MK1/MK2 barrel nut VS. the new lightweight MK4 barrel nut :


MK1/MK2 barrel nut: 3.52 OZ.


MK4 barrel nut: 1.26 OZ.

Significant weight difference b/t the two..even though I've never cared much about +/- 2ozs.

Cpl. old posts of mine, one to answer the barrel nut question, and another in regards to keymod placement.

Fwiw...I don't really have any desire anymore to see the small keymod portion on the MK4.

[Blak1508]

Pictures of the build through rail changes and equipment changes.

As shown this is the MK2 13 inch sand
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/E4A9F634-31E0-492A-99D4-903845EECAAE-419-000000261DD77B7A_zpsca713f12.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/E4A9F634-31E0-492A-99D4-903845EECAAE-419-000000261DD77B7A_zpsca713f12.jpg.html)
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/DSC02564_zpsf1d7c01f.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/DSC02564_zpsf1d7c01f.jpg.html)

Both the Mark 2 and the Mark 4 together
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/DSC02604_zpsb3c0912b.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/DSC02604_zpsb3c0912b.jpg.html)http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/DSC02611_zpsb173af13.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/DSC02611_zpsb173af13.jpg.html)

[Blak1508]

Continued.

Mark 4 installed
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/9e0f7cdb52d1dc56011a1a987b40265b_zpsf3b32334.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/9e0f7cdb52d1dc56011a1a987b40265b_zpsf3b32334.jpg.html)
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/d22e92cbe86748b06d39a7f7536f046b_zps51b1a7a7.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/d22e92cbe86748b06d39a7f7536f046b_zps51b1a7a7.jpg.html)

Mark 3
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/null_zps9166f25f.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/null_zps9166f25f.jpg.html)
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/null_zps15c65807.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/null_zps15c65807.jpg.html)http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/null_zpsa9fb356c.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/null_zpsa9fb356c.jpg.html)

[Blak1508]

Continued.
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/1DBDC56C-3763-4CDC-8390-F28357013FF3-160-000000091C70E8AD_zps1b3ccac5.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/1DBDC56C-3763-4CDC-8390-F28357013FF3-160-000000091C70E8AD_zps1b3ccac5.jpg.html)

Mark 1 13 inch Black. Just messing around and putting the kitchen sink on my build :ph34r: Thank you to Zincognito for letting me try out his LaRue swing mount and the black TD cover. Even with the PA I like the setup better than the ACOG.
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/6B5C5A23-E49F-4AE7-8159-22E01D03460A-630-0000005733FCFBC1_zpsde069e88.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/6B5C5A23-E49F-4AE7-8159-22E01D03460A-630-0000005733FCFBC1_zpsde069e88.jpg.html)

[Blak1508]

Sorry for the raw unedited photos especially of the Mark 1 I will update with better photos. Just a few quick observations or thoughts. I put the rail insert on the left side for the WML and also have the HS thorntail 45 offset. I initially thought there was no way in hell I would run the WML on the MK1 because of the stacking of rail parts, It does stick out quite a bit but not nearly as much as I originally anticipated, it was more of a joke/ experiment in the beginning, surprisingly it was comfortable. The KAC hand stop will not be staying there, that was a overboard. I felt this stuck out too much but I understand I can mount one on the bottom without use of the rail insert. I am not sure if I can mount the KAC one there but I have seen other hand stops mounted. The T-1 usually sits on another build and when money permits I want to put a Vortex on this. My thoughts on the rail are extremely positive though and as you can tell by the pictures the build has sustained a lot of changes but it is coming around and I feel that it is in it's final stages, one thing is certain I have finally found the rail that will stay on this build

[kdcgrohl]

Honestly I'd prefer key slots all the way down 3/6/9 with QD sockets rearmost on 3/9. With keymod goodies, there is no need for the short rail sections up front. What I'd like is a MK4 profile with keymod slots 3/6/9 and rear QDs at 3/9 10.5" or 11". Where do I sign up?

Just IMHO about keymod MK4 :rolleyes:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7930/t5ai.jpg

[mtdawg169]

Honestly I'd prefer key slots all the way down 3/6/9 with QD sockets rearmost on 3/9. With keymod goodies, there is no need for the short rail sections up front. What I'd like is a MK4 profile with keymod slots 3/6/9 and rear QDs at 3/9 10.5" or 11".

This. Even better would be if it also had keymod on the 45's like the KAC and upcoming BCM rails. Those designs with the Geissele mounting method would make a very nice, strong and user friendly keymod rail.

[kdcgrohl]

This. Even better would be if it also had keymod on the 45's like the KAC and upcoming BCM rails. Those designs with the Geissele mounting method would make a very nice, strong and user friendly keymod rail.

They would be a nice option for the 45s, but I don't miss them on an NSR. Offset mounts can easily make up for that. My only real complaint about the NSR is it's just too thin. Covers help, but I think a MK4 profile Keymod rail would be a real winner.

[Jaysop]

I know nothing about manufacturing, but dam...
I want to see one of these ASAP. The reason I sold the MK1 was because I'm very fond of hand stops and textured panels and I couldn't manage to figure out how to do that to that rail.
I'd wait in line for a full 3,6,9 position keymod from them. Having only a portion of the rail with keymod Is pointless IMO.

[Seifer]

SPOTTED

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1237127_572637536105849_1579340453_n.jpg

[kdcgrohl]

Soo close. Front rails need to go.


SPOTTED

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1237127_572637536105849_1579340453_n.jpg

[adh]

Soo close. Front rails need to go.

no way.....that's what keeps those surefires on those 1911s ;)
:D joke :D

[ZINCOGNITO]

Continued.
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/1DBDC56C-3763-4CDC-8390-F28357013FF3-160-000000091C70E8AD_zps1b3ccac5.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/1DBDC56C-3763-4CDC-8390-F28357013FF3-160-000000091C70E8AD_zps1b3ccac5.jpg.html)

Mark 1 13 inch Black. Just messing around and putting the kitchen sink on my build :ph34r: Thank you to Zincognito for letting me try out his LaRue swing mount and the black TD cover. Even with the PA I like the setup better than the ACOG.
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q629/blak1508/6B5C5A23-E49F-4AE7-8159-22E01D03460A-630-0000005733FCFBC1_zpsde069e88.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/blak1508/media/6B5C5A23-E49F-4AE7-8159-22E01D03460A-630-0000005733FCFBC1_zpsde069e88.jpg.html)

Anytime man!

You have quite a long history of Geissele in your life....lol. Although I wasn't excited with the changes to the MK1, this new version has grown on me and I'll be buying one in the near future. As far as keymod is concerned, the URX4 and BCM are leading the way.....IMO.

[Steve]

SPOTTED

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1237127_572637536105849_1579340453_n.jpg

yeap that is my photo and my guns mk4 308 keymod Prototype

[decodeddiesel]

I'm having a difficult time understanding the differences in these Geissele rails. I know some use an Al barrel nut and some use steel, and there are some differences in the shape of the rails.

What rail would be suggested for an 18 in. SPR type build with a rifle gas system? The only things I would mount to the rail would be a front BUIS, Harris BRM-S, and a 45 degree offset T1.

[ALCOAR]

You can order the aluminum barrel nut separately should it not come with the rail model you decide on.

I personally like the 15" MK1 for a SPR precision type rifle...


18" barrel/ 15" MK1
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07053-1.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC07053-1.jpg.html)

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07024-1.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC07024-1.jpg.html)

[RXM]

I'm having a difficult time understanding the differences in these Geissele rails. I know some use an Al barrel nut and some use steel, and there are some differences in the shape of the rails.

What rail would be suggested for an 18 in. SPR type build with a rifle gas system? The only things I would mount to the rail would be a front BUIS, Harris BRM-S, and a 45 degree offset T1.

As of now, I believe MK2, MK3, and MK4 come with the aluminum barrel nut.

In terms of differences between the SMR series of rails, it can best be summed up as MK1>MK3>MK2. The MK4 is pretty much an entirely different handguard that focuses on weight reduction.

The MK1 and MK3 share the same 3D machining on the 3, 6, and 9 whereas the MK2 has flat sides. The 3D machined sides allow for a more comfortable grip. Main differences between the MK1 and MK3 is that the accessory picatinny rails mount directly to the MK1 but use a backplate system on the MK3.

I have no problems suggesting someone buy the MK3 if the MK1 is not available or if they want to save a few bucks.

For a SPR build, I would suggest a 15" handguard.

Here is a 15" MK1 on my SPR

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-twnprmt/0/XL/i-twnprmt-XL.jpg

MK3 from the front showing the attachment system

http://johncdang.smugmug.com/photos/i-2kvSJhp/0/L/i-2kvSJhp-L.jpg

[advan031]

What about barrel nut compatibility? Can I use an MK3 with my MK4 barrel nut?

[RXM]

Yes from mk1 to mk4

[recon8541]

Not sure how you can get sleeker than the MK1...

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07588-1.jpg

Imho GA already owns the slickest lopro rail on the market, and it's method of attachment is superior to everything else I've seen to date. One can't find a design that is more durable, and effortless than GA's steel inserts and screw in acc. 1913 panels. The only problem with it is that it's the hardest and most expensive process/design to use.


After a cpl. decades, the 1913 rail design has not only proven itself in spades, but now is one of the biggest reasons why we even get to enjoy the liberty of having so many choices to pick from with regards to the vast amt. of various AR kit made today. The 1913 design has been essentially perfect for so many years now...then poof somehow it's now archaic or prehistoric technology?? Call me old fashion but the fact that every single thing I could want currently to outfit my rifle comes currently in a 1913 design is good enough reason to not screw with what's not broken.

Moreover, the 1913 is vetted to the nth degree under every single condition imaginable...including years of service in combat....on the other hand we have a new keymod design that hasn't seen any time hardly in terms of really vetting it out, and it certainly has no time while being used in conditions like combat.

I have no idea what will become of the keymod design, however I do know two things at the moment...

1. At this time, the keymod hasn't come anywhere close to being fielded enough to say with any certainty that it will make the 1913 design irrelevant. We have no clue what future problems or successes might arise from extended usage in real deal conditions over years not months.

2. At this time, the keymod accessories are really a joke if somebody thinks that they have opened up some chest of versatility or new modularity with the ones that exist today. I've yet to see a keymod accessory that made me think wow, now I see the beauty in the system. The keymod design has most likely years of catching up to do in terms of just getting simple models of vfgs, covers, widgets, etc...and then if you invest that kinda time you better hope that the AR world hasn't found a better high speed method of attachment, or you'll start the whole process over again with the lastest revolutionary design.

Just for the record I wanted to express that I don't feel anyone's opinion has been wrong over the last bit of discussion even though I do know that my own opinion is quite different from some of them.

Ultimately I appreciate lots of educated opinions in regards to future design, and I know for sure Geissele does....it will only make products better in the long run.


By having a handstop that mount direct without attaching a rail.....Deliberate Dynamics is supposed to have one soon that will work for all the Geissele handgaurds.

[Astom22]

You can order the aluminum barrel nut separately should it not come with the rail model you decide on.

I personally like the 15" MK1 for a SPR precision type rifle...


18" barrel/ 15" MK1
http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07053-1.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC07053-1.jpg.html)

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC07024-1.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC07024-1.jpg.html)

Is that 18" barrel including the flash hider? Serious question, I'm thinking of using a 15" rail on a 16" barrel, but from this pic, my plan doesn't look like it will work. Thanks

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4

[ALCOAR]

It's an 18" barrel...not sure what the OAL is with AAC M4/SPR Blackout F/H on it though.

Here it is w/ a factory A2 F/H...

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06869-1.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC06869-1.jpg.html)

[Astom22]

It's an 18" barrel...not sure what the OAL is with AAC M4/SPR Blackout F/H on it though.

Here it is w/ a factory A2 F/H...

http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac81/trident1982/DSC06869-1.jpg (http://s888.photobucket.com/user/trident1982/media/DSC06869-1.jpg.html)

Thanks, that is a great looking AR. I have spent years looking at other people's ARs and finally bought a lower to start my own. I like the longer free float on a 16" (just for looks) but now I'm wondering if a 15" would be too long.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4

[High.Caliber]

Thanks, that is a great looking AR. I have spent years looking at other people's ARs and finally bought a lower to start my own. I like the longer free float on a 16" (just for looks) but now I'm wondering if a 15" would be too long.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4

IMHO 16" barrels look best with a rail 13"-14"

[Blak1508]

I tried out the 15 inch rail with a 16 inch barrel, it was not really an issue reference the MK3 pictures I put up. IMO it was just unnecessary rail estate and added weight, but it will work, then I decided to go back to the 13 inch rail which seems to work best for me in a multi purpose build. If your doing an SPR with the added barrel length like RXM's 18, I am sure you will be GTG.

[Blackdog714]

Ok, guys, I'm loving my MK4 but I am really disappointed with the lack of heat moderation...

After a couple of slow(er) mags, it becomes unbearable to hold without gloves, and even then it's not comfortable. I really don't want to put the KAC URX panels on, but if no solution is offered soon, I don't see much choice.

Info? :)

[montrala]

Ok, guys, I'm loving my MK4 but I am really disappointed with the lack of heat moderation...


Lower mass means that same amount of heat in given time gives higher temperature rise. Light barrel nut does not help. You could slow this down by using steel barrel nut, that works as a heat sink and will slow down temperature increase, but ultimately getting some form of heat insulation will be needed anyway. Good news is that lighter rail will cool down faster.

[adh]

yeap that is my photo and my guns mk4 308 keymod Prototype

Can you share any other details on that AR10?...i.e. upper/lower/barrel/etc.

[scooter22]

The Mk1 is a thing of beauty. Here it is on my MUR w/ Noveske barrel. It's killing me that I have to wait 4+ months for my AX556 to finish the build. :cray:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7420/9752737582_a1af00e3c7_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/9752952776_eac039da2b_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/9752952776_eac039da2b_z.jpg

I think it's worth the wait on the lower.

Is that the Griffin comp? Have you tested it out yet?

[Bearded_Brometheus]

I think it's worth the wait on the lower.

Is that the Griffin comp? Have you tested it out yet?

Yep that's the M4SD II Flash Comp. I haven't shot it a bunch, but I did throw it onto on of my BCM lowers (thanks Grant!) & really liked it. I never really saw a need for anything but an A2, but figured what the hell for this build. The difference in muzzle jump was noticeable. The recoil difference was pretty mild. I'm a horrible judge of concussion difference so I won't bother commenting on that. Haven't done any night shooting yet so can't speak the that either. Definitely worth the price tag, IMO

[kdcgrohl]

http://www.ar15news.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/620-Geissele-SMR-MK4-KeyMod-Rail-2.jpg

More pics here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/221861_Geissele_Super_Modular_Rail_is_available.html&page=25 (Sorry for TOS link).

I'd still like to see this minus the forward 3/6/9 rails.

[ALCOAR]

Bill Geissele (SMRs), Monty (Centurion rails), and Jason Trusty (unreleased exciting new rails) all have essentially voiced their design opinions about the Keymod.......it will be the last rail models on their lines, if they ever even incorporate one at all.

Those three men carry some serious clout in terms of hard use AR designs, unlike other companies they design almost every product w/ the intent that it will be used on some form of a hard use, serious work type rifle.

Just food for thought....the Keymod might be the next hoverboard, but some of us will be choosing alternatives, or even sticking w/ the old fashion, yesteryear rails that after all have done nothing but proven themselves to be one helluva modular design for decades.

All that said, I hope folks that want a Geissele keymod rail get it sooner, rather than later....and that it's a fantastic overall keymod design.

[Koshinn]

Those three men carry some serious clout in terms of hard use AR designs, unlike other companies they design almost every product w/ the intent that it will be used on some form of a hard use, serious work type rifle.

What about BCM, KAC, and Noveske?

[ALCOAR]

Perhaps I should have spelled my intent better out....


Keymod works

However it won't ever be the standard imho, and for every BCM, Noveske, or KAC that jump on the Keymod ship........they'll be a Geissele, Centurion, or GearSector that create rails incorporating designs that they feel are better.

[Blak1508]

Nicely put brother^ . In Geissele's case there will be me scrambling to get a first run. Going to the range again today, I will report on my experience with my new Mark 1.

[okdonk]

Guys, i'm wondering if the KAC URX Rail panels will fit on the Geissele Rails (MK1 to MK3)? Has anyone ever done it? If there is, any mods needed to be done?
Thank you so much.

[ALCOAR]

This thread has become so massive that it was easier for me to google image the right search term combo in order to retrieve a fellow member's pic posted sometime in past countless pages.

So the pic credit, idea, etc. goes to the fellow member which I believe is Scatman. I just worked my google ninja skills :D

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q627/Scatmanc2727/Noveske/DSCF0275_zps97de3fc9.jpg

I can't remember seeing another pic or hearing about any other SMR model regardless which one that had URX panels on it besides that Mk4 above.

[okdonk]

This thread has become so massive that it was easier for me to google image the right search term combo in order to retrieve a fellow member's pic posted sometime in past countless pages.

So the pic credit, idea, etc. goes to the fellow member which I believe is Scatman. I just worked my google ninja skills :D

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q627/Scatmanc2727/Noveske/DSCF0275_zps97de3fc9.jpg

I can't remember seeing another pic or hearing about any other SMR model regardless which one that had URX panels on it besides that Mk4 above.

Thank you, really appreciate it.

[Hunter2878]

Are there any estimates for a when the .308 rail will be produced?
Will it fit a Mega Maten receiver?
Thanks

[RXM]

Are there any estimates for a when the .308 rail will be produced?
Will it fit a Mega Maten receiver?
Thanks

No ETA on the .308 rail at this point. The Mega billet upper will not accommodate the anti-rotational tabs on the MK rails.

[sanman96825]

Anyone know a seller who has a MK3 13" in black that will also ship to Hawaii?

Geissele itself has it in stock but won't ship outside the CONUS :(

[EzGoingKev]

http://www.ar15news.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/620-Geissele-SMR-MK4-KeyMod-Rail-2.jpg

More pics here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_444/221861_Geissele_Super_Modular_Rail_is_available.html&page=25 (Sorry for TOS link).

I'd still like to see this minus the forward 3/6/9 rails.
I myself would like the keymod to be like the MKIII rails - 1913 @ 12:00 and the rest all keymod.

Another thing that would be great IMO is either sell the rails with matching colored barrel nuts OR sell the rails and barrel nuts separately. I myself do not want a tan barrel nut with a black rail.

[txf15crewchief]

I myself would like the keymod to be like the MKIII rails - 1913 @ 12:00 and the rest all keymod.

Another thing that would be great IMO is either sell the rails with matching colored barrel nuts OR sell the rails and barrel nuts separately. I myself do not want a tan barrel nut with a black rail.

You do realize that the different colored barrel nuts are made from different materials right? The "tan" is actually anodized aluminum while the "black" barrel nut is steel. I'd be more concerned with things like weight savings and strength, although both are excellent. Replacement barrel nuts are available from Geissele if you choose to "color match".

[firerocketjump]

I think the color variation of e barrel nut looks great.

But I think that also depends on the other colors on the gun lol

[britishtq]

I held a build my gunsmith buddy made at the local gun shop for a customer. It was LIGHT as hell. I love the Daniel defense rails but it could definitely be a contender.

[Serpico1985]

Can anyone advise if it is possible to use a magpul moe vertical grip (not the rail vertical grip) and direct mount it to the bottom of the SMR rails? Would it require removing the the handguard to install if it would work?

Thanks

[ic_guerrero]

Can anyone advise if it is possible to use a magpul moe vertical grip (not the rail vertical grip) and direct mount it to the bottom of the SMR rails? Would it require removing the the handguard to install if it would work?

Thanks


You can on the HK version of the rail. I'll try to post pics.

[Serpico1985]

Awesome. I would appreiateit it.

[montrala]

You can on the HK version of the rail. I'll try to post pics.

It would be very nice. I'm thinking about putting MVG. It would be great to see how it fits.

[WS6]

Will the MKIV 9.5" rail play nice with Surefire mounts/cans on a 10.3" MK18 barrel? I know the RISII is 9.5" and will, but...

[ic_guerrero]

I hope these help. If you need any other angles, please let me know. You can completely tighten the screw on MVG due to the gas block. If it is tightened all the way the screw will prevent the rail from sliding over the gas block. FYI.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/ic_guerrero/photo3_zpsa50565ba.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ic_guerrero/media/photo3_zpsa50565ba.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/ic_guerrero/photo2_zps3ea62fb2.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ic_guerrero/media/photo2_zps3ea62fb2.jpg.html)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b51/ic_guerrero/photo1_zpsfea67ab0.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/ic_guerrero/media/photo1_zpsfea67ab0.jpg.html)

[montrala]

I hope these help. If you need any other angles, please let me know. You can completely tighten the screw on MVG due to the gas block. If it is tightened all the way the screw will prevent the rail from sliding over the gas block. FYI.

Thanks, it helps :)

I must check, but looks like in my case grip will be in front of gas block, so this should not be a problem.

[Blackdog714]

Lower mass means that same amount of heat in given time gives higher temperature rise. Light barrel nut does not help. You could slow this down by using steel barrel nut, that works as a heat sink and will slow down temperature increase, but ultimately getting some form of heat insulation will be needed anyway. Good news is that lighter rail will cool down faster.

I'm more disappointed that no solution has been offered when they knew that heat was going to be as issue because of the light weight.

[C4IGrant]

I'm more disappointed that no solution has been offered when they knew that heat was going to be as issue because of the light weight.

I don't know if it really is a problem. The "solution" would be to add weight. Personally, I would much rather just shoot with gloves or run a VG (assuming that I am going to run the gun long and hard to generate so much heat that I cannot hold onto it).



C4

[montrala]

I'm more disappointed that no solution has been offered when they knew that heat was going to be as issue because of the light weight.

There is no "solve all problems" solutions. For low rate of fire use (hunting, precision shooting, competition) you do not have big heat build up in the system and there is no problem to solve. And when application is high volume of fire, you can add some form of insulation (grip panels, use gloves, etc.), but for this kind of shooting it would be best to have heavier setup, that will have greater heat capacity (because handguard becoming hot will not be only problem). It always it about finding this optimal spot to where different requirements meet each other, maybe no in perfect, but in acceptable quality (defined as gap between requirement and how it is fulfilled)

[ALCOAR]

Lower mass means that same amount of heat in given time gives higher temperature rise. Light barrel nut does not help. You could slow this down by using steel barrel nut, that works as a heat sink and will slow down temperature increase, but ultimately getting some form of heat insulation will be needed anyway. Good news is that lighter rail will cool down faster.


There is no "solve all problems" solutions. For low rate of fire use (hunting, precision shooting, competition) you do not have big heat build up in the system and there is no problem to solve. And when application is high volume of fire, you can add some form of insulation (grip panels, use gloves, etc.), but for this kind of shooting it would be best to have heavier setup, that will have greater heat capacity (because handguard becoming hot will not be only problem). It always it about finding this optimal spot to where different requirements meet each other, maybe no in perfect, but in acceptable quality (defined as gap between requirement and how it is fulfilled)

Montrala really nails my thoughts above, and here is some testing I posted quite some time ago in this thread.....

[mig1nc]

If heat's a big problem, there's always the JP Rifles heat sink.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.5_hs.php

http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/heatsink.jpg

But the rifle-length one in .75" profile weighs 6.8oz.

[WS6]

If heat's a big problem, there's always the JP Rifles heat sink.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.5_hs.php

http://www.jprifles.com/photos_new/heatsink.jpg

But the rifle-length one in .75" profile weighs 6.8oz.

I think this would bake hands even worse.

[ic_guerrero]

Is there any updates on the scout flashlight mount?

[ZINCOGNITO]

Is there any updates on the scout flashlight mount?

Excellent question! I have a mini scout waiting....

[SpeedRacer]

Finally got my Recce-ish rifle mostly together and ran some rounds through it. I'm really digging the MK4. It does get warm at the end of long strings of fire, but not enough for me to worry about. In fact I didn't even put much thought into it until reading this thread. You get a ton of capability in a rock solid rail that weighs less than just about everything else on the market. Something's gotta give, and personally I'll take a little heat.

Excellent work on these rails Geissele!

13" MK4 on a 16" Legion build

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/31/reja9e9a.jpg

[srshooter]

Absolutely. Some of the current rails would not even meet requirements. The AR/M4 versions strength will be at the bbl nut, similar to the HK version.

Bill mentioned that the rail could carry a soldier with gear by the sling if he were to be hung up on a heli skid.

Really? That seems like a fantasy world statement. a Soldier with gear weighs 280 lbs, and the sling has QD swivel mounts- 4 little spring loaded balls holding 280 lbs with momentum behind it?

Sales is an important thing to do, but it shouldn't require statements of whimsy like that.

[ALCOAR]

Geissele doesn't have a marketing dept., and the last thing in the world Bill Geissele does is lie or embellish his products. I'd be careful calling bullshit on an outfit with as much integrity and honesty as GA has.

I've found Geissele products sell themselves, and they don't need any "whimsy fantasty" statements to aid in that.

[Blackdog714]

I don't know if it really is a problem. The "solution" would be to add weight. Personally, I would much rather just shoot with gloves or run a VG (assuming that I am going to run the gun long and hard to generate so much heat that I cannot hold onto it).



C4

Why can't the solution be some grip panels like the KAC panels for the URX?

[C4IGrant]

Why can't the solution be some grip panels like the KAC panels for the URX?

If that works for you, then yes.



C4

[Serpico1985]

Really? That seems like a fantasy world statement. a Soldier with gear weighs 280 lbs, and the sling has QD swivel mounts- 4 little spring loaded balls holding 280 lbs with momentum behind it?

Sales is an important thing to do, but it shouldn't require statements of whimsy like that.

I would imagine he means that the rail could handle the load not the QD attachment method specifically.

[montrala]

Really? That seems like a fantasy world statement. a Soldier with gear weighs 280 lbs, and the sling has QD swivel mounts- 4 little spring loaded balls holding 280 lbs with momentum behind it?

AFAIK it was original user requirement for procurement for upgraded HK416 handguard and SMR rail delivered this capability and GA got contract. This is how all SMR rails started - from 10.4" SMR HK rail.

BTW Remington Defense also proposed their rail for the bid. Designed to match same user requirements it looked very similar to SMR.

[ALCOAR]

Most excellent info Montrala...Never asked about the actual rail contract aspects.

Wonder if any other submissions made a serious push at the contract besides the rem., and the SMR.?

[montrala]

Most excellent info Montrala...Never asked about the actual rail contract aspects.

Wonder if any other submissions made a serious push at the contract besides the rem., and the SMR.?

DD had something in work. There were some pics floating around, but did not look half as heavy duty as Rem or Geissele rails.

[srshooter]

Geissele doesn't have a marketing dept., and the last thing in the world Bill Geissele does is lie or embellish his products. I'd be careful calling bullshit on an outfit with as much integrity and honesty as GA has.

I've found Geissele products sell themselves, and they don't need any "whimsy fantasty" statements to aid in that.

The rail is equipped with QD swivel sockets- the statement implies at least the way I read it and to me, the use of the provided equipment. If it was caveated with some disclaimer about alternate sling mounting that would make sense, I didn't hear the original statement. The equipment designed to safely tether a human from a helicopter is rated ~2000-3000lbs typically (3600lbs tested in the link below). Is the QD swivel even rated for 300 lbs? I doubt it.


http://www.yatesgear.com/rescue/tactical/beltsLanyards/

Is it wrong to connect the statement I read to the OEM provided sling attachment point? I don't think so. Is it wrong to critically access information? No.

[ALCOAR]

The rail is equipped with QD swivel sockets- the statement implies at least the way I read it and to me, the use of the provided equipment. If it was caveated with some disclaimer about alternate sling mounting that would make sense, I didn't hear the original statement. The equipment designed to safely tether a human from a helicopter is rated ~2000-3000lbs typically (3600lbs tested in the link below). Is the QD swivel even rated for 300 lbs? I doubt it.


http://www.yatesgear.com/rescue/tactical/beltsLanyards/

Is it wrong to connect the statement I read to the OEM provided sling attachment point? I don't think so. Is it wrong to critically access information? No.


I'm not trying to call out anybody, all I'm suggesting is that if anyone should get the benefit of the doubt before being called a lair, embellish-er, or otherwise marketing fluff job....it's Mr. Geissele and his awesome team.

Bill notoriously undersells, or plays down his products performance, ability, or design on every occasion I can remember.

[TCBA_Joe]

Most excellent info Montrala...Never asked about the actual rail contract aspects.

Wonder if any other submissions made a serious push at the contract besides the rem., and the SMR.?

Here's the DD rail submission
http://i1308.photobucket.com/albums/s611/joe_freerider/HK416DDRail_zpsfcd51640.jpg

[ALCOAR]

Very interesting info gents, and that's neat seeing a pic of the DD submission rail.

After seeing the DD submission above, I found what I believe is a pic of the Remington submission on Montrala's blog, or the "all things HK" blog ;)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xNuHG71VUHw/TxV_AWkdWsI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/B1yIUckw2Mo/s1600/accessory_RC_RAHG_1_ss.jpg

[scooter22]

deleted

[montrala]

After seeing the DD submission above, I found what I believe is a pic of the Remington submission on Montrala's blog, or the "all things HK" blog ;)

Come on! It is not "all things HK". If you would search really, really deep you will find non-HK related content as well! Some Benelli, FB Radom, Hera, Vortex and even Glock :lol:

Anyway, here are some real life Remington rail pics (via mhenson07 from HKPro):

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk416-hk417-hq/13171d1370624961-how-about-these-remington-defense-416-rails-unicorn-inside-img_1455.jpg

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk416-hk417-hq/13172d1370624965-how-about-these-remington-defense-416-rails-unicorn-inside-img_1456.jpg

[Vgex2]

The above images work, but you need to be an HK Pro forum member to see them. Log in (or create) an account if you want to be able to view the images.

[montrala]

The above images work, but you need to be an HK Pro forum member to see them. Log in (or create) an account if you want to be able to view the images.

Sorry, did not know that. If it is really important I can put them on my Photobucket, but I usually try to avoid using pictures that someone else owns. I prefer linking to source.

[E-man930]

montrala, I would like to see them too...
Can you throw them up on a free image host? ==> imageshack.us

[montrala]

By popular demand and thanks to new forum engine :p

This pictures are property of mhenson07 from HKPro and all credits due to him. Click pictures to view.

21256

21257

[ALCOAR]

Gotta admit...that Rem. rail looks awesome. That rail, along with the Mk1 are easily in their own class of rails. The depth of design, robustness of construction, and level of machine work are the big hallmarks to these rails imo.

[Blackdog714]

If that works for you, then yes.



C4

I'm really not trying to be obtuse about this... My original point is that I'm disappointed that they would release such an awesome product and then force me to go to the competition for something that should have been designed and released with the product. Usually the accessories for a new product are the real money makers for a business and the ROI of designing bolt-on covers seems an easy margin boost.

[C4IGrant]

I'm really not trying to be obtuse about this... My original point is that I'm disappointed that they would release such an awesome product and then force me to go to the competition for something that should have been designed and released with the product. Usually the accessories for a new product are the real money makers for a business and the ROI of designing bolt-on covers seems an easy margin boost.

I would not discard a rail because it does not have rail panels or whatever. I can shoot an AR with a rail system for 100-200rds before it gets too hot to hold (especially a long one). Anything over that probably means that I am at a training class and should have gloves on anyway.


C4