I got confronted with gender neutrality by my freshman niece.

[Mauser KAR98K]

No, it wasn't her telling me she was changing genders, nor telling me I should refer to people other than he-or-she. In fact, I'm quite positive my niece, and subsequently her best friend, who is my neighbor's daughter, had no idea they were engaging in gender neutrality.

It stems from two words: No One.

The context of these two words and how they are misused is the infuriating part. It is also a lesson in why being classical trained, and read, is very important in today's society. Granted, you don't have to go to college just read classical literature, or play classical music, but coming from such institutions--and the money spent--really shouldn't excuse this.

Granted, the two words of No One is harmless when asking who did what, who the person on the phone was, or talking to yourself.

But when your name is Ulysses and you, and what is left of your crew, is capture by a bunch of cyclops on an island, when one asks for your name, it damn well wasn't, "I am No One"!!

"I am No Man!"

I can't remember what brought up The Odyssey, but apparently both girls have recently read in two different schools and told, and "Grandma", that their book and teachers said Ulysses said he was No One. I, myself, have not read The Odyssey, but I have, however, read a book entitled "No Man's Land" of a writer who tours and looks for the geographal places of the Odyssey--note the title. My mom, on the other hand, during her college years one ups me 100 fold and had translated the tale from Homeric Greek to Latin.

We agreed it was political correctness running amok again. But after thinking about it, it goes farther into gender neutrality.

This coming generation--the one that will take care of me when I get old and febal--is being led down the road of political correctness without knowing it. They are being taught that the value of ignorance out weighs the offensive of hurting someone's feelings. They are being taught the taboo is normal, and ways of the nuclear family are wrong. I'm see the damping of confidence being replaced with instant gratification opium of social media and games. Things that I would have killed to do, when I offer for my niece and her friend to try and experience, they lack the will of confidence like they are breaking rules set by an unknown authoritative being.

My God, when they leave the academia bubble and into the world, they don't have a chance.

[Koshinn]

No, it wasn't her telling me she was changing genders, nor telling me I should refer to people other than he-or-she. In fact, I'm quite positive my niece, and subsequently her best friend, who is my neighbor's daughter, had no idea they were engaging in gender neutrality.

It stems from two words: No One.

The context of these two words and how they are misused is the infuriating part. It is also a lesson in why being classical trained, and read, is very important in today's society. Granted, you don't have to go to college just read classical literature, or play classical music, but coming from such institutions--and the money spent--really shouldn't excuse this.

Granted, the two words of No One is harmless when asking who did what, who the person on the phone was, or talking to yourself.

But when your name is Ulysses and you, and what is left of your crew, is capture by a bunch of cyclops on an island, when one asks for your name, it damn well wasn't, "I am No One"!!

"I am No Man!"

I can't remember what brought up The Odyssey, but apparently both girls have recently read in two different schools and told, and "Grandma", that their book and teachers said Ulysses said he was No One. I, myself, have not read The Odyssey, but I have, however, read a book entitled "No Man's Land" of a writer who tours and looks for the geographal places of the Odyssey--note the title. My mom, on the other hand, during her college years one ups me 100 fold and had translated the tale from Homeric Greek to Latin.

We agreed it was political correctness running amok again. But after thinking about it, it goes farther into gender neutrality.

This coming generation--the one that will take care of me when I get old and febal--is being led down the road of political correctness without knowing it. They are being taught that the value of ignorance out weighs the offensive of hurting someone's feelings. They are being taught the taboo is normal, and ways of the nuclear family are wrong. I'm see the damping of confidence being replaced with instant gratification opium of social media and games. Things that I would have killed to do, when I offer for my niece and her friend to try and experience, they lack the will of confidence like they are breaking rules set by an unknown authoritative being.

My God, when they leave the academia bubble and into the world, they don't have a chance.

Isn't "I am no man" what Eowyn says in Return of the King just before she kills The Witch King of Angmar?

[Mauser KAR98K]

Isn't "I am no man" what Eowyn says in Return of the King just before she kills The Witch King of Angmar?

Yep. You'd be amazed of the telling and retelling of stories through-out history. The original Star Wars is a slight adaptation of Authorian Legend.

[MountainRaven]

Yep. You'd be amazed of the telling and retelling of stories through-out history. The original Star Wars is a slight adaptation of Authorian Legend.

Star Wars has bits and pieces of everything in it.

[SteyrAUG]

Yep. You'd be amazed of the telling and retelling of stories through-out history. The original Star Wars is a slight adaptation of Authorian Legend.

A little Wagner, some Kurosawa and a few other hijacks. Even "Jedi" was appropriated from Jidaigeki.

[wildcard600]

IIRC correctly the version i read in HS translated it as "Nobody". The book had a 70's printing date I believe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outis


I think maybe you are reading too much into something that is not there....?

[Moose-Knuckle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pU6B2zEFeg




But yeah academia is full on tilt boogie with the old cultural Marxism.

[Dave_M]

Remember that it was't originally written in modern English. My copy from 1980 says "no one" in it. I imagine different translations have slightly different words.

[Koshinn]

It makes more sense to be translated as "no one" or "nobody" in modern English. "No man" emphasizes the gender, such that if a man says "I am no man", it makes me think he was castrated, is trans, or is pulling a Mulan/Eowyn.

"Nobody" and "no one" means "not a person/human" in modern speech, which while it may not be a direct translation, is closer to the intent in modern English.

[Alex V]

It seems that this may just be the fault of the different translations.

Improper translations can ruin a book. My favorite book of all time was originally written in Russian. Though I speak the language fluently, I read and write iton a first grade level, so I had to read the book in English. I have two different translations. One is pretty dead on, the other sucks.

The opening scene has two men speaking in a park under linden trees. One of the books translates it as lime trees. Where the hell are you going to find lime trees in a park in Moscow? That version of the translation even translated proper names. Drives me insane.

[moonshot]

Getting the translation wrong can not only ruin an otherwise great piece of literature, if it is done intentionally (especially for PC reasons) it is no different than the selective editing of a quote (remember how NBC removed a rather important part of George Zimmerman's 911 call)?

PS - Eowyn actually said But no living man am I! You look upon a woman.

[Mauser KAR98K]

You would think, however, in academic circles that they would use the proper translation instead of "modern engrish". Considering in the Odyssey there were both man, gods and beasts in the story, "No Man" makes better sense.

This whole "modern English" sounds like liberal hopla being used to interpret the U.S. Constitution.

Or does this make me a literary hipster? "The first translation is the best, before the publishers sold themselves to modernization."

[Koshinn]

You would think, however, in academic circles that they would use the proper translation instead of "modern engrish". Considering in the Odyssey there were both man, gods and beasts in the story, "No Man" makes better sense.

This whole "modern English" sounds like liberal hopla being used to interpret the U.S. Constitution.

Or does this make me a literary hipster? "The first translation is the best, before the publishers sold themselves to modernization."
You're a literary hipster :p And again, people here have copies from 30 years ago that have it as nobody/no one.


Getting the translation wrong can not only ruin an otherwise great piece of literature, if it is done intentionally (especially for PC reasons) it is no different than the selective editing of a quote (remember how NBC removed a rather important part of George Zimmerman's 911 call)?

PS - Eowyn actually said But no living man am I! You look upon a woman.
https://youtu.be/dQ_-rmuPZC4?t=2m3s

Yes, I know the book is different :p

[KalashniKEV]

I think maybe you are reading too much into something that is not there....?

+1


This coming generation--the one that will take care of me when I get old and febal--is being led down the road of political correctness without knowing it.

I guess classical training doesn't include a block of instruction on spelling?

You sound pretty easily offended... in fact, you're searching pretty hard for the butt hurt here...

Are you sure you're not in the modern generation?

[Spiffums]

Isn't "I am no man" what Eowyn says in Return of the King just before she kills The Witch King of Angmar?

Yup but that was because no man could kill the witch king.......just like that dude in Macbeth wasn't born of woman.

[moonshot]

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[Mauser KAR98K]

+1



I guess classical training doesn't include a block of instruction on spelling?



You sound pretty easily offended... in fact, you're searching pretty hard for the butt hurt here...

Are you sure you're not in the modern generation?

I have dyslexia issues that makes difficult for me to spell, or recognize words that sound the same but are spelled differently, and carry different meanings. My reading is good as long as I take my time, sometimes having to reread things to catch the proper meaning and context. It is something I know I have issues with and do my best to not show it in my postings and writings. But, I still miss things.

I also have issues pronouncing words and memorizing spelling of words and names.

To your other comments: with all that is going on in this country, and the world, seeing it possibly affect my family in their education; yeah, I'm probably am a little butt hurt, and suspicious of the agendas filtering into our education systems. After all, we do have a thread where black students want to ho back to segregated schools.

[Mauser KAR98K]

deleted

Put it back. Put it back. It's okay. Hijack it.

[26 Inf]

I also have issues pronouncing words.

I'm with you, fell of a roof onto concrete and suffered a pretty good CHI, pronunciation kind of left me, as well as other things memory wise. People who don't know me might think I'm a moron, people who do know me are sure I'm a moron. :cool:

I used to love reading aloud, now not so much, it is a hoot during Sunday school, about the only words in the Bible I can say without stumbling around are God, Jesus, and Moses.

I feel your pain.

[MountainRaven]

I have dyslexia issues that makes difficult for me to spell, or recognize words that sound the same but are spelled differently, and carry different meanings. My reading is good as long as I take my time, sometimes having to reread things to catch the proper meaning and context. It is something I know I have issues with and do my best to not show it in my postings and writings. But, I still miss things.

I also have issues pronouncing words and memorizing spelling of words and names.

To your other comments: with all that is going on in this country, and the world, seeing it possibly affect my family in their education; yeah, I'm probably am a little butt hurt, and suspicious of the agendas filtering into our education systems. After all, we do have a thread where black students want to ho back to segregated schools.

Translating things to fit agendas is probably about as old as translation itself.

Afterall, we have the Geneva Bible (one of the first translations of the Bible into English) and the King James Bible, among many, many others. The King James Bible basically following on, because the King of England wasn't super comfortable with the way that Enlightenment thinkers translated the Geneva Bible. So he had a new Bible translated that reinforced monarchical rule rather than undermining it.

In any event, if you're afraid that your relative is going to be influenced greatly by the translations of persons with agendas, I'd recommend that you see to it that she gets a classical education so she can read it in the original Greek or translate it herself.

[Frailer]

You're way off track here.

The word in Greek is "oudeis," which is a phonetic pun on Odysseus' name.

It means "no one" or, literally, "not one thing."

It is sometimes translated as "no man," but it certainly needn't be.