View Full Version : Cheap brass, Winchester or Remington? (.223)
A friend of mine and I are going in together on a 1000ct. bag of .223 Remington brass, cheap stuff for high-volume reloading, and I notice that the Remington and Winchester brass is within a couple buck of each other (with the Remington costing the most) - I'm willing to bet that I probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference between the two, but I'm just checking to make sure, as this is the first time that I'm buying cheap brass (I usually try to stick with Lapua).. and someone might know something that I don't.
Please, only serious and objective opinions only. Which do you prefer and why? Thanx!!
I hate WIN brass. It stretches way worse than Remmy.
Any time I get some WIN brass to reload... I count on one loading only and then it's into the shit can.
With Rem I can usually get 3 solid loads out of it before it would need trimming. At that point it's going into the recycle bucket anyway.
Well, so far, I've had 3 people recommend Remington, and only 1 recommend Winchester. Looks like I'll be ordering some good ol' R-P.
I know when I always buy brass for my competition rifles, (.308 and .300 Win Mag), I only get the good stuff, Lapua and sometimes Hornady match, and I can start loading them right out of the bag, never needing to size them (the only thing I do when I get them is put a 22 degree VLD chamfer on it).. is this cheap brass going to need to be resized, chamfered, etc? Or should it be ready to go?
The person that recommended the Winchester brass to me stated that it had thicker case walls than R-P, more like military ammo - is there any truth to this?? My loads are pretty hot, so thicker case walls would definitely make for some extra piece of mind.. Thanx!
I don't know. It could also depend on which WIN brass it is.
WCC, W.C.C., or Winchester.... the first two being MIL and the last being commercial. All of it is too stretchy for me.
As far as hot loads? R-P should be just fine. I've never had any problems loading over .223 velocities with it.
The person that recommended the Winchester brass to me stated that it had thicker case walls than R-P, more like military ammo - is there any truth to this?? My loads are pretty hot, so thicker case walls would definitely make for some extra piece of mind.. Thanx!
5.56 mil cases do not have thicker case walls, this is a myth. LC brass is some of the lightest brass out there, going low 90's/case. Other commercial brass goes mid-90s, some is over 100 per. The thing that separates the two types is the mil brass is heat treated, hardened where it needs to be and annealed where it needs to be. Case heads don't stretch and shoulders/necks last longer.
I don't know which Winchester version it is, here is where I am getting it:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=148099
And here's the Remington brass:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=263533
Some other guys turned me onto some Lake City brass on another site for the same price as these two - BUT, I can't tell if it's military brass or commercial brass, as I don't have my tool to re-swage primer pockets on military crimped brass (loaned it to someone, and they lost it :()... it appears to be new cases, not once-fired... you'd think new cases would have regular primers pockets, right?? This is it: http://www.grafs.com/product/187033
5.56 mil cases do not have thicker case walls, this is a myth. LC brass is some of the lightest brass out there, going low 90's/case. Other commercial brass goes mid-90s, some is over 100 per. The thing that separates the two types is the mil brass is heat treated, hardened where it needs to be and annealed where it needs to be. Case heads don't stretch and shoulders/necks last longer.
is LC considered to be a higher grade of brass than Remington for example?
I've always had great luck with it - usually getting 8 - 10 reloads out of a LC case. They do a great job annealing the case necks as well... almost as good as Lapua does. I used to never buy brass, I would just buy some bulk military ammo, as long as it was loaded with Lake City brass, then shoot it all up dicking off with my friends in order to accumulate all the brass I needed... but since I lost my primer pocket swager tool - I can't buy anymore (Natchez has a great deal on some Lake City M855 SS109).. As far as it being thick or thin - I never checked. I did however check weights, and LC brass is a LOT more consistent than other cheap brass, although not as consistent as Lapua, Norma, Nosler Custom, or Hornady Match.
I only get 2 loads out of LC brass when it comes from XM193 or M855. I don't know why, but the LC brass that American Eagle .223 ammo is loaded with lasts much longer. It doesn't need trimming for the first 2-3 loads. But the primer crimps are tougher than military LC brass. On XM193 brass you can reprime most of it without removing the crimp. This would be impossible on the AE LC brass for sure.
There are some characteristics to brass that may make it better from a military standpoint, but are less desireable from a reloader's standpoint. I don't know why military brass is so stretchy. I'm sure it's not a quality issue. You know they have a good spec for their brass.
If you want the easiest brass to reload, R-P by far is it. When I get to the range an see that someone has left a bunch of once fire UMC brass, I'm in heaven!
I only get 2 loads out of LC brass when it comes from XM193 or M855. I don't know why, but the LC brass that American Eagle .223 ammo is loaded with lasts much longer. It doesn't need trimming for the first 2-3 loads. But the primer crimps are tougher than military LC brass. On XM193 brass you can reprime most of it without removing the crimp. This would be impossible on the AE LC brass for sure.
There are some characteristics to brass that may make it better from a military standpoint, but are less desireable from a reloader's standpoint. I don't know why military brass is so stretchy. I'm sure it's not a quality issue. You know they have a good spec for their brass.
If you want the easiest brass to reload, R-P by far is it. When I get to the range an see that someone has left a bunch of once fire UMC brass, I'm in heaven!
I haven't bought brass for awhile, I'm still working off an old stash. My experience was LC better than commercial Win/R-P, but maybe that's changed. The last time I shot any AE, it was loaded in cases marked either Fed or FC. I understand it's now loaded in LC brass.
One thing, I was never able to load once fired XM-193 LC brass w/o reaming the crimp. My experience does not mirror yours, but these were from lots of ammo produced 4-5 years ago.
rmecapn (member here) was echoing the same experience with the XM193 primer crimp. We just happened upon the topic in another recent thread. The XM193 I most recently experienced this with was the black box stuff.
I'm not saying that mil LC brass is bad. It's just not my first choice for reloading due to the stretch in it. I don't know why but the LC brass that AE is loaded in is not the same at all. The crimp is a pain in the ass, but after that, it makes for great reloading.
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