View Full Version : Taser Pulse or C2?
Mods please move the post if there is a better forum for this - thank you and I apologize for the inconvenience ahead of time.
Anyway, ladies and gents:
Now that Taser is coming out with the Pulse which resembles a subcompact pistol - I'd like to ask for input regarding whether I should get a C2 or preorder the Pulse.
Few things you may want to know about my situation:
- no CCW in my county for effectively everyone
- I'm a graduate student so carrying anything is a bad idea most of the time (school can kick people out with some Honor Code BS) - I only plan to carry it on the weekends
Main reason I'm considering the pulse is because of the pistol shape and I can potentially "train" carrying with it so when I move out to a better place and I can get my CCW with some carrying "experience" already. I also expect people coming out with Kydex holsters for the Pulse in the near future - or I can just ask someone to custom make it for me.
The Pulse is $100 more but I have a feeling it may be worth it. Any suggestions would be highly valued! Many thanks!
I'd buy a pulse, but I wish it was more Shield than it is Glock26.
You're better off with pepper spray.
A civilian Taser doesn't have the same circuitry as an LE unit so the NMI (Neuro Muscular Incapacitation) isn't present in the C series units like it is in the M26/X26/X26p/X2/X3, etc.
It is a pain compliance device in which you have 1 shot to land both probes, requires sufficient stand off to get decent probe spread, runs on a battery, and is over priced.
I used to work for a Taser distributor and am very familiar with their units. Get a $10 can of OC and spend the difference on a class like MUC with SouthNarc.
Tasers are a tool, with advantages and quirks. They are expensive, the C2 and Pulse are single deployment, probes can miss, the suspect is fully functional when the pulses stop, and their carry may be restricted in some places. When legal and accurately deployed they are highly effective at incapacitation and allow a window of escape. Understanding these is key, and you should seek professional training on these devices.
When choosing a model, consider that the shape of the C2 says little, the Pulse says "gun".
Some like and find them compatible with their needs. Check these out for detailed C2 information:
http://www.womenonguard.com/images/TASER-C2-manual.pdf
https://buy.taser.com/pages/taser-c2-support
A civilian Taser doesn't have the same circuitry as an LE unit so the NMI (Neuro Muscular Incapacitation) isn't present in the C series units like it is in the M26/X26/X26p/X2/X3, etc.
Incorrect. Different model, but same essential operation and effects.
Incorrect. Different model, but same essential operation and effects.
A C series unit ramps up and down through the 19 pulses/second range where NMI takes effect. An LE unit stays at 19 pulses/second the entire time.
That's why my buddy Dan could take a hit from a C2 and still have some voluntary muscle control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Weo6BHoytA
Why do you say it's the same?
You're better off with pepper spray.
A civilian Taser doesn't have the same circuitry as an LE unit so the NMI (Neuro Muscular Incapacitation) isn't present in the C series units like it is in the M26/X26/X26p/X2/X3, etc.
It is a pain compliance device in which you have 1 shot to land both probes, requires sufficient stand off to get decent probe spread, runs on a battery, and is over priced.
I used to work for a Taser distributor and am very familiar with their units. Get a $10 can of OC and spend the difference on a class like MUC with SouthNarc.
This is good information considering my research on the matter. I really wish there was a JPX that was thinner, I'd be sold on that as having all the advantages of pepper spray without the self-contamination and distance issues.
A C series unit ramps up and down through the 19 pulses/second range where NMI takes effect. An LE unit stays at 19 pulses/second the entire time.
That's why my buddy Dan could take a hit from a C2 and still have some voluntary muscle control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Weo6BHoytA
Why do you say it's the same?
It is indeed NMI accomplished in the same manner, even if at a different pulse delivery, and not (solely) a pain compliance device. (This is discussed in the C2 user manual I linked to, as well as the instructor-level materials distributed for the C and X series.)
I don't know Dan nor the details of his exposure. I do know first-hand of other C-deployments that were as incapacitating as the X. As you're probably aware, recipient experiences can and do vary.
I used to work for a Taser distributor and am very familiar with their units.
Did you receive manufacturer's instructor- or user-level product certification training?
I bolded the pertinenet. The X26E is the last model of the X26 before the X26P - it has been incapacitating bad guys since 2003.
Jim D - you let me hook your buddy up and see how much voluntary muscle control he has ;) As you know there are many variables, you get two probes into a person, with 8 inches between the probes, they are going to be incapacitated. Most failures or reduced performance are due to clothing disconnects, or insufficient probe spread.
Not the similarity to energy actually delivered.
C2 output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 19 pulses per second (PPS) for 5 seconds, 12 PPS for 15 seconds, ½ second break, 19 PPS for 1.5 seconds, 8 PPS for remaining 8 seconds
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
Peak open circuit voltage: 50,000 volts (V)
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V
Energy at capacitors:
Nominal at main capacitors: 0.368 joules per pulse
Delivered into load: 0.07 joules per pulse
Current: 0.0021 amperes (A) (2 milliamperes average)
2. Power Rating:
Nominal at main capacitors: 7 watts
Delivered into load: 1.3 watts
X26C output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 17 pulses per second (PPS) for 2 seconds, 10 PPS thereafter for up to 30 seconds total
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
The trigger activates a 10-second cycle. Second and third pull increments the cycle 10 seconds each up to 30 seconds total. The cycle can be stopped by placing the safety lever in the safe position.
Peak open circuit arcing voltage: 50,000 V
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V, avg. voltage over duration of main phase 400 V, avg. over full phase 350 V, avg. over one second 0.76 V.
Current: 1.9 mA average @ 17 PPS
Energy per pulse:
Nominal at main capacitors: 0.36 joules
Delivered into load: 0.07 joules
Power rating @ 17 PPS:
Nominal at main capacitors: 6 watts
Delivered into load: 1.2 watts
X26E Output characteristics:
Wave form: Complex shaped pulse
Pulse rate: 19 pulses per second (PPS)
Pulse duration: 100 microseconds
The trigger activates a 5-second cycle. The cycle can be stopped by placing the safety lever in the safe position.
Peak open circuit arcing voltage: 50,000 V
Peak loaded voltage: 1,200 V, avg. voltage over duration of main phase 400 V, avg. over full phase 350 V, avg. over one second 0.76 V.
Current: 2.1 mA average
Energy per pulse:
Nominal at main capacitors: 0.36 joules
Delivered into load: 0.07 joules
Power rating:
Nominal at main capacitors: 6.84 watts
Delivered into load: 1.33 watts
I'd get the C2 - cheaper, less gun looking.
ETA: Couldn't find pulse specs - it wasn't announced when I re-certified as an instructor.
i work with OC/FOX on a daily basis.. ill tell you from multiple deployment experiences, people are more "afriad" of a tazer.... but FOX is a shit ton more effective.
most importantly, you can defend against several attackers with FOX, only one with a tazer...
GET THE FOX....
It is indeed NMI accomplished in the same manner, even if at a different pulse delivery, and not (solely) a pain compliance device. (This is discussed in the C2 user manual I linked to, as well as the instructor-level materials distributed for the C and X series.)
I don't know Dan nor the details of his exposure. I do know first-hand of other C-deployments that were as incapacitating as the X. As you're probably aware, recipient experiences can and do vary.
Did you receive manufacturer's instructor- or user-level product certification training?
Yes, went through their training, and my boss was their former head of business development (designed the X12 shotgun for them).
I've owned an X26 and a C2.
I understand that experiences may vary, but I do not place the faith in the C2 that I do in the X series products... nor has anyone else I've ever spoken to who worked for Taser.
You're better off with pepper spray.
I have a couple of this and bought them at $11 https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Sports-Outdoors-Self-Defense-Pepper-Spray/zgbs/sporting-goods/3222129011 each I gave them to my daughter who is out in college. It has good reviews and seems pretty powerful.
I don't trust her yet to deploy mace or pepper spray properly yet.. I need to spend time with her and practice!
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vicious_cb
06-19-18, 01:39
Tasers generally suck because of the low incapacitation time, great for LEOs who can go hands on and cuff immediately after taser employment but not so great for civilians.
Give someone a faceful of Sabre Red or Fox and they're out of the fight for a good 30 mins.
Tasers generally suck because of the low incapacitation time, great for LEOs who can go hands on and cuff immediately after taser employment but not so great for civilians.
Give someone a faceful of Sabre Red or Fox and they're out of the fight for a good 30 mins.
I wouldn't bet on them being out of the fight for 30 minutes. Part of pepper spray training for us was to be able to "function" after taking a good dose of FOX to the face. That included running, shooting, using a baton and some wrestling. Now it did suck and some people found they were sensitive to pepper spray and really struggled. Others were able to function relatively well, to include getting center of mass shots at 10 ft, accurate baton strikes and being able to wrestle a bit. I was assuredly not at 100% probably not even 25% on the shooting because of watery eyes. But given an opponent I over matched by size and skill I could still win if the motivation was right.
And that was in a situation where I had to stand there eyes open staring at the instructor while he lined up an ideal shot. If you don't get a good accurate spray and or mix in any kind of pain killing drugs or mental disorder and I'd bet even less on pepper spray quickly breaking them down for 30 minutes.
vicious_cb
06-19-18, 14:43
I wouldn't bet on them being out of the fight for 30 minutes. Part of pepper spray training for us was to be able to "function" after taking a good dose of FOX to the face. That included running, shooting, using a baton and some wrestling. Now it did suck and some people found they were sensitive to pepper spray and really struggled. Others were able to function relatively well, to include getting center of mass shots at 10 ft, accurate baton strikes and being able to wrestle a bit. I was assuredly not at 100% probably not even 25% on the shooting because of watery eyes. But given an opponent I over matched by size and skill I could still win if the motivation was right.
And that was in a situation where I had to stand there eyes open staring at the instructor while he lined up an ideal shot. If you don't get a good accurate spray and or mix in any kind of pain killing drugs or mental disorder and I'd bet even less on pepper spray quickly breaking them down for 30 minutes.
Maybe the better term is degraded. The dudes Ive seen who were sprayed in training would typically feel the effects for ~30 mins like squinting, tearing, pain, irritation. Could you fight through all those symptoms, sure. But Id rather have that than the bad guy popping right back up after you stop applying current.
Maybe the better term is degraded. The dudes Ive seen who were sprayed in training would typically feel the effects for ~30 mins like squinting, tearing, pain, irritation. Could you fight through all those symptoms, sure. But Id rather have that than the bad guy popping right back up after you stop applying current.
I concur on that. But pepper spray must be applied properly to be effective on the bad guy and not blow back on the user. And it is far from a game ender. I'd still suggest getting decent with some realistic martial art so you can defend yourself at least a bit and gain separation to use whatever tools available.
vicious_cb
06-19-18, 16:32
I concur on that. But pepper spray must be applied properly to be effective on the bad guy and not blow back on the user. And it is far from a game ender. I'd still suggest getting decent with some realistic martial art so you can defend yourself at least a bit and gain separation to use whatever tools available.
Pretty much. I dont think theres a such thing as a less than lethal game ender. Some dudes just wont go down no matter how much you apply pepper spray or electricity ect.
diving dave
06-20-18, 09:23
Back in my LEO days I had great results with the X26. Pepper spray was hit or miss. My partner and I were attacked by a guy who had used peyote and was having a really bad trip. OC had no effect, and both my partner and I were whacking the guy with 29 inch hard wood batons, no effect. The only thing that he felt was the taser.
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