View Full Version : How safe is Bulgaria ?
So my 14 & 15 year old daughters want to go on a Church sponsored mission trip to either Sofia or Plovdiv this summer for about 2 weeks. They would be helping with a youth summer camp in one of those cities. There would be a substantial amount of adults that would go and oversee as well. What are your thoughts? Would it be safe to let them go? Am I crazy even thinking about letting them do this?
Have you checked the State Dept. report on the country? I have a lot of contempt for DoS, but they're still stop #1 when evaluating foreign travel advisories for American citizens.
Off the top of my head, the one thing I'd be wanting to know is the state of human trafficking in Bulgaria. Some of the eastern European countries have a problem in that respect.
No travel advisories there is some human trafficking going on there.
Our KBR contractors in Bosnia bragged about all the women down there a lot, sounded like a good spot that was easy on the wallet. Hungary not so much, I spent a lot in Hungary. As far as letting my kids go there, nope. If I ever got a divorce it would be one of my first stops.
Am I crazy even thinking about letting them do this?
14 and 15 year old daughter in a foreign country in the Eastern Bloc and not under the direct supervision of you or another responsible, adult relative. Yeah...you'd be nuts.
If they want to help the needy, probably lots of people who could use some help right in your own zip code. They can deliver meals to the elderly, volunteer at the hospital, get involved in home schooling young children and they aren't likely to get kidnapped doing any of those things.
wildcard600
01-25-16, 18:42
With the situation in Europe being what it is, no way.
14 and 15 year old daughter in a foreign country in the Eastern Bloc and not under the direct supervision of you or another responsible, adult relative. Yeah...you'd be nuts.
If they want to help the needy, probably lots of people who could use some help right in your own zip code. They can deliver meals to the elderly, volunteer at the hospital, get involved in home schooling young children and they aren't likely to get kidnapped doing any of those things.
Well said.
I wouldn't let my kids go. There is plenty of good work to be done right here at home. No need to be a missionary at 14/15 years old. That's work for adults. Not kids.
BoringGuy45
01-25-16, 19:51
You've got Middle Eastern "refugees". You've got the Albanian mafia which, for the record, really do the things they did in Taken. You've got the Russian mafia, you've got the Italian 'Ndrangheta (which makes the Sicilian mafia look like shoplifters), you've got gypsies, and the country is considered one of the most corrupt in Europe. 5-10 years ago, I'd say you'd probably be good to go. Nowadays, not so much. Organized crime there is more brutal and less hesitant to commit atrocities like kidnapping and selling kids than most organized crime groups are here. I'd hold off having your kids go overseas, especially to Eastern Europe.
Not just no. Hell ****ing no. Not really necessary to research Bulgaria, either.
14 and 15 year old daughter in a foreign country in the Eastern Bloc and not under the direct supervision of you or another responsible, adult relative. Yeah...you'd be nuts.
If they want to help the needy, probably lots of people who could use some help right in your own zip code. They can deliver meals to the elderly, volunteer at the hospital, get involved in home schooling young children and they aren't likely to get kidnapped doing any of those things.
My thoughts expressed nearly exactly.
No need to be a missionary at 14/15 years old. That's work for adults. Not kids.
Add to that, I have to wonder about the level of responsibility and intelligence of ANY organization, especially a church, that would actually put teenage girls in such a situation. Do they really need that "international assistance" merit badge that badly?
My kids went on "mission trips" (usually building playgrounds and the like) in former Eastern Bloc countries throughout high school. They learned a great deal, and it was an excellent life experience.
If I trusted the adult chaperones, I'd let them go.
I would say hell no.
If you were talking about 2 sons, then maybe. Daughters, hell no.
Others have articulated the reasons. The corruption, mafia, sex trafficking, etc. make for a risky environment, especially for non-natives, who will stand out from a mile away, don't know the language, slang, behavioral patterns and whatnot.
I went Skiing there many years ago and while it was safe in the resort area, Plovdiv looked like a complete craphole. I wouldn't go there personally, yet alone letting two teenage daughters if I had kids.
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-16, 03:04
Eastern Europe as a whole has been the gateway for the sex trafficking of white women since the Cold War ended.
Bulgaria does though however manufacture one hell of a Kalashnikov.
ditto this !
10 years ago maybe I would have said yes but in todays time and what is happening ditto others NO WAY !! not worth it so much needs to be done here in our own country first IMHO
14 and 15 year old daughter in a foreign country in the Eastern Bloc and not under the direct supervision of you or another responsible, adult relative. Yeah...you'd be nuts.
If they want to help the needy, probably lots of people who could use some help right in your own zip code. They can deliver meals to the elderly, volunteer at the hospital, get involved in home schooling young children and they aren't likely to get kidnapped doing any of those things.
My kids went on "mission trips" (usually building playgrounds and the like) in former Eastern Bloc countries throughout high school. They learned a great deal, and it was an excellent life experience.
If I trusted the adult chaperones, I'd let them go.
I don't know anything about Bulgaria or Eastern Europe other than what I read, which is not good. However, I have two daughters and we have been going on mission trips as a family for the past 8 years to Honduras. We started going when our daughters were 14 and 16. I can't tell you what an impact these trips have had on our family. The oldest daughter got her accounting degree and is there now as a missionary.
But, I will tell you that there have only been a few trips that I wasn't with them. I've been in charge of lots of other people's kids on these trips and it's a huge responsibility. That's a tough call.
Averageman
01-26-16, 09:05
14 and 15 year old daughter in a foreign country in the Eastern Bloc and not under the direct supervision of you or another responsible, adult relative. Yeah...you'd be nuts.
If they want to help the needy, probably lots of people who could use some help right in your own zip code. They can deliver meals to the elderly, volunteer at the hospital, get involved in home schooling young children and they aren't likely to get kidnapped doing any of those things.
My Son was able to do one here in the States and found it very rewarding. I believe he was working with orphans that summer.
Even though he (usually) has a good head on his shoulders, I was slightly concerned and he was inside CONUS, I would have lost my mind if he had been outside the U.S. at that time and at 16 years of age.
I would look hard at some stuff that provides the same reward to them with less risk and inside CONUS.
Watch the movie "taken" once again and realize Liam Neeson is fictional.
I was in Sofia about 12 years ago... I wouldn't let my daughters go there. Late teen son that minded his own business, ok. Not the girls.
I can't imagine how it is changed now with refugees.
KalashniKEV
01-26-16, 10:49
Bulgaria is a place to eat, drink, dance, swim, and party.
I did the Black Sea Coast 10 years ago. One of the best times I've had.
My buddy spent some time last summer too.
That being said...
No travel advisories there is some human trafficking going on there.
https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=17096
Religious/Ethnic Violence
Religious violence tends to be focused on Muslims and Christian missionary groups...
U.S. missionaries have been targets of harassment and assaults. They have been physically assaulted and threatened directly and indirectly. There have been cases of pepper spray used against missionaries, as well as armed threats with guns and knives. Missionary property has also been defaced with anti-American graffiti.
When I was a kid I used to catch snakes to sell to the pet store for $20 each. I was pretty good at being able to discern a water bandit from a water moccasin and was competent enough in my snake handling skills that I only picked up a moccasin a few times before making the absolute determination.
I was 14 and never had an incident where I got bit by a venomous snake. Doesn't mean what I was doing was safe and that nothing bad could happen to me. But I was 14 and honestly didn't believe anything could happen that I couldn't handle.
Sending kids to politically and socially unstable countries or places rampant with disease is even more foolish. If you want to help...great...there are millions of people in THIS country that could genuinely use your help. It's cheaper and you could actually help larger numbers of people for the same money.
Go find a homeless shelter for kids or veterans. Bring some food, mentor to them, make sure they have clothes. Maybe actually take to time to get to know one of them and help them as a person and see if you can get them some opportunities to help themselves.
Here's a thought, have your church use all that money to help homeless veterans get their lives stable and then send THEM to places like Bulgaria. I bet they'd be a lot more effective than sending the teenage girl brigade. The benefit to a formerly homeless veteran to go someplace like Bulgaria and do things, even if it is as simple as building playgrounds for children, would be far more significant to a former homeless veteran than a teenage girl who comes from a place of stability.
As for teenage girls, let them go read to people with terminal cancer, probably would do more worldly good than building a playground. Those girls would learn something about life without having to put themselves at undue risk to learn profound lessons. Helping care for somebody on "short time" is probably the most selfless act a person can do.
Think about Chuck and imagine if he didn't have the family he did. There are guys just like that, but they are making their final trip alone. There are even kids and I can't imagine anything much more terrifying. Having some teenage girls actual give you genuine attention and concern can make the their final days less terrible.
If I ever ran a church, that is how I'd deploy my resources.
Very well said.
Bravo to you, sir. :thank_you2:
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-16, 16:04
However, I have two daughters and we have been going on mission trips as a family for the past 8 years to Honduras. We started going when our daughters were 14 and 16.
San Pedro Sula has been the world's murder capital for years now.
Have you or any of your family and associates encountered any trouble while in-country?
Well there are many questions to be answered before I give the green light. Security, health care services, evac, ect.. I'm thinking that I might require myself to go just to oversee security.
Questions like:
Would our Blue Cross cover them over there?
Should I enlist Global Rescue/ Medjet assist or something else for the time period?
What cell phone provider would work in Bulgaria?
I have been oversees while in the military and have seen the best and the worst of the world so I do know what I am up against. Right now I have many questions and very few answers.
San Pedro Sula has been the world's murder capital for years now.
Have you or any of your family and associates encountered any trouble while in-country?
We fly into Tegucigalpa and take a bus to an orphanage in Guaimaca. We have only flown into San Pedro Sula once and took a bus from there to Guaimaca. We stay away from the tougher areas and have never gone "exploring" into the areas that are worse than others. We haven't had any trouble but we don't put ourselves near it. Kinda like visiting larger cities in the US.
Well there are many questions to be answered before I give the green light. Security, health care services, evac, ect.. I'm thinking that I might require myself to go just to oversee security.
Questions like:
Would our Blue Cross cover them over there?
Should I enlist Global Rescue/ Medjet assist or something else for the time period?
What cell phone provider would work in Bulgaria?
I have been oversees while in the military and have seen the best and the worst of the world so I do know what I am up against. Right now I have many questions and very few answers.
We use Verizon in Honduras and it works pretty well. We talk to our daughter who is there every other week. In Honduras, she bought cell minutes in Honduras and replaced the chip in her iPhone. Reception is pretty good and minutes are very cheap. Also, the Methodist church covers us with missionary health insurance. Other denominations may offer the same. We have Blue Cross but I'm sure it wouldn't work there.
From a security standpoint, I get frustrated sometimes because our church has been there so many times that people treat it like a trip to Disney. I am usually the only one on the trip whose head is on a swivel and I always bring up the end of the line to keep a headcount.
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-16, 23:57
We fly into Tegucigalpa and take a bus to an orphanage in Guaimaca. We have only flown into San Pedro Sula once and took a bus from there to Guaimaca. We stay away from the tougher areas and have never gone "exploring" into the areas that are worse than others. We haven't had any trouble but we don't put ourselves near it. Kinda like visiting larger cities in the US.
Good to know, thanks for sharing.
I always figure ransoming of Americans must be a threat in such places as well.
Doubt this helps with your decision, but I have quite a few friends that are Bulgarian immigrants. They love life and like to party... hard. Drinking, eating and dancing long past sunrise. I really enjoy hanging out with them from time to time but I wouldn't let them in my house because they'd steal the penny's off a dead mans eyes.
Good to know, thanks for sharing.
I always figure ransoming of Americans must be a threat in such places as well.
Even though I haven't heard of it happening, I think we would be good targets for kidnap and robbery. It appears that the violence that occurs is gang and drug related. But, we try to avoid those areas.
My son is going on a mission trip for his senior class trip. He attends a Christian school. Originally they were going to Spain. However, that was cancelled because of security concerns. His class was being split up and they couldn't guarantee that they would all be together during the day and the logistics of over seeing the 60 kids split up into 3 different areas didn't make the school feel comfortable. The point of this is that if the school didn't feel comfortable about the kids security in Spain why would you send your daughters to Bulgaria with the situation like it is there? Wouldn't even be a consideration in my book. I wouldn't even let me son go.
KalashniKEV
01-27-16, 08:39
It appears that the violence that occurs is gang and drug related. But, we try to avoid those areas.
Those are the best areas!
Plus, them's the ones that need Jesus anyway, right?
You can even take in some ballet while you're there:
http://xtravaganzzaclub.com/
"Organized Crime" is how Bulgaria got up to Western European standards faster than all of it's neighbors once the Iron Curtain fell. Also unlike in a lot of places, the "Bulgarian Mobsters" would rather sell you services to get your money than take it at gunpoint. They can make a lot more money that way, plus they stay out of Bulgarian Prison.
They do shoot their business rivals though, but I'm not trying to open up a beach club there...
Maybe it’s me, but I don’t get the OCONUS missionary trips. And 14-year old GIRLS to boot?!?
Building playgrounds for whom in those countries??? WTF, the people in these countries can’t build playgrounds their own damn selves or something?? A couple of posters already stated Bulgarians like to party hard and shit. So they should have plenty of time and money to build their own/take care of a lot of their own issues. Plus another poster stated they’re pepper-spraying missionaries……tells you what they think.
Give a man a fish, he’s not hungry for the day….Teach a man to fish, oh never mind. Do these missionaries think that constructing playgrounds there will build admiration/appreciation for Americans? I think it breeds even more contempt for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah……. It’s a Christian thing. I guess they get to jump me in line in front of St. Peter or something.
Maybe it’s me, but I don’t get the OCONUS missionary trips. And 14-year old GIRLS to boot?!?
Building playgrounds for whom in those countries??? WTF, the people in these countries can’t build playgrounds their own damn selves or something?? A couple of posters already stated Bulgarians like to party hard and shit. So they should have plenty of time and money to build their own/take care of a lot of their own issues. Plus another poster stated they’re pepper-spraying missionaries……tells you what they think.
Give a man a fish, he’s not hungry for the day….Teach a man to fish, oh never mind. Do these missionaries think that constructing playgrounds there will build admiration/appreciation for Americans? I think it breeds even more contempt for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah……. It’s a Christian thing. I guess they get to jump me in line in front of St. Peter or something.
Then there is the fact that Bulgaria joined the Axis powers in March of 1941, changed sides the day after the Russians entered the country in 1944 and somehow managed to increase the size of the country AFTER the war became a one party communist state who cracked down on dissension hard and probably was directly involved in the murder of Georgi Markov among others and supplied weapons to terrorist groups and other anti western radicals.
F-em, let them build their own playgrounds, if they need help they should talk to Putin.
Maybe it’s me, but I don’t get the OCONUS missionary trips. And 14-year old GIRLS to boot?!?
Building playgrounds for whom in those countries??? WTF, the people in these countries can’t build playgrounds their own damn selves or something?? A couple of posters already stated Bulgarians like to party hard and shit. So they should have plenty of time and money to build their own/take care of a lot of their own issues. Plus another poster stated they’re pepper-spraying missionaries……tells you what they think.
Give a man a fish, he’s not hungry for the day….Teach a man to fish, oh never mind. Do these missionaries think that constructing playgrounds there will build admiration/appreciation for Americans? I think it breeds even more contempt for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah……. It’s a Christian thing. I guess they get to jump me in line in front of St. Peter or something. It's a whole industry... Christo-Tourism..
It's not about building playgrounds or Christo Tourism .
KalashniKEV
01-28-16, 17:22
It's not about building playgrounds or Christo Tourism .
Different people have different motivations.
Some people do it for Christo Tourism, so they can visit exotic places, all expenses paid by a tax-free org.
Some people do it so they can pat a third worlder on the head, and be told "Thank You."
Some people do it so they can come back and tell stories at cocktail parties about how thoughtful/generous/compassionate/whatever they are.
Some people go just to get freeky with the youth members, or the exotic local people.
I like they way you keep saying "some people" and I would agree with you that some people do that. Those same "some people" also ruin things in every other aspect of our lives. I would never let my family fall into that trap. But that is taking the thread in another direction. Try to stay on topic, namely how safe is Bulgaria?
I am perfectly fine in on my sofa in fly over country with home cooked meals.
They love life and like to party... hard. Drinking, eating and dancing long past sunrise.
This is why these 3rd world shitholes can't get anything done. Nobody works. No economic activity.
Different people have different motivations.
Some people do it for Christo Tourism, so they can visit exotic places, all expenses paid by a tax-free org.
Some people do it so they can pat a third worlder on the head, and be told "Thank You."
Some people do it so they can come back and tell stories at cocktail parties about how thoughtful/generous/compassionate/whatever they are.
Some people go just to get freeky with the youth members, or the exotic local people.
I can't speak for "some people" but can speak for myself and my family. Our expenses are not tax free and I am thankful that we are not "some people".
KalashniKEV
01-29-16, 08:14
Try to stay on topic, namely how safe is Bulgaria?
Are you asking on a scale of 1-10?
Does "Safer than a lot of places in Latin America" work?
There is also something else to be taken into account- some people in life are just Victims.
The same person who falls victim to crime in an exotic locale is the very same person who would fall victim to crime here or anywhere else... and they will likely be "randomly" victimized several times in their life.
It's not random- it's because of their look and the way they act.
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