View Full Version : Unreasonable requirements to obtain a CHP?
Lowell, a city in Massachusetts, requires CHP applicants to write “an essay” and pay upwards of $1,100 for training to be eligible to receive a CHP, which is issued at the discretion of the Chief of Police, the author of the "essay" requirement. Is this a reasonable requirement, and is it not overly burdensome on those who wish to exercise a constitutionally-protected right?
http://www.inquisitr.com/2738038/massachusetts-gun-essay-mandates-writing-component-to-concealed-carry-permit-approval-in-lowell/
A new Massachusetts gun permit essay rule has Second Amendment supporters seeing red. Gun owners in the state must now write an essay which will be “graded” for approval by the police chief before a carry permit can be issued. A hefty firearms training price tag up to $1,100 will also be levied against those attempting to exercise their right to bear arms in the city of Lowell.
Lowell, Massachusetts, is located about 35 miles north of Boston and is home to some 110,000 people. The gun essay law was the brainchild of Police Chief William Taylor and approved by the city council. Applicants for an “unrestricted” handgun permit have to detail in writing why they should be granted the Second Amendment credentials. Chief Bill Taylor has sole authority when it comes to deciding which gun permit essays make the grade.
My essay would be denied as all it would say is "I'm an American, it's my Constitutionally guaranteed right. Fvck you." Maybe I should write that and mail it in anyway, from WA. Could you image the collective brick sh!tting that would occur if this was applied to the 1st Amendment?
It's BS but it's also the East Coast. They are operating under the idea of "if they really want it, they will jump through the hoops. This is just to keep guns out of the wrong hands." You should never have to justify why you need to exercise your rights. I want Constitutional carry nationwide, I'd also like to see background checks go away, shouldn't have to prove your innocence to buy a gun.
diving dave
01-26-16, 09:54
I agree with Vandal. Maybe if they received a bunch of essays saying how they are taking their tax money and hard work to a State that respects the intent of the 2nd A...
brickboy240
01-26-16, 10:07
Its Massachusetts...what do you expect?
That IS unreasonable when compared to the way it should be, however if I had to pay $1,100 and write an essay to get my CCW in NJ I would, in a heart beat. I have to show "Justifiable Need" which means I already had a threat to my life which is documented and witnessed.
The North East sucks ass...
donlapalma
01-26-16, 10:19
I would say that the "essay" has already been written for me and it's called the U.S. Constitution as amended by the Bill of Rights!! Emotional outburst aside, the cost prohibitive nature of the training requirement would preclude certain citizens based on socioeconomic class. I'm sure that $1,100 would be considered a TON of money to a lot of people out there and prevent good standing citizens from exercising their constitutionally-protected right. So, yes, from this viewpoint, I would argue that this is venturing on the side of unreasonable. Plus, I would be interested to learn about the criteria upon which the police chief will grade these essays. Ultimately, if I was a resident of Lowell, MA, I would be pissed.
That IS unreasonable when compared to the way it should be, however if I had to pay $1,100 and write an essay to get my CCW in NJ I would, in a heart beat. I have to show "Justifiable Need" which means I already had a threat to my life which is documented and witnessed.
The North East sucks ass...
I'll threaten your life for ya.
Anyone willing to witness it for Alex V?
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Because reasons.
Sincerely,
Firefly
Eurodriver
01-26-16, 10:35
You should quit being the stereotypical old crotchety white guy that whines about shit and take a page from the Dems playbook and actually do something.
I just called the Lowell Crimestoppers line and reported the Chief of Police for infringing on the 2nd Amendment rights of American citizens. You can easily do the same.
But you won't. Too scared.
http://www.lowellma.gov/police/Lists/Department%20Services/DispForm.aspx?ID=8&RootFolder=%2Fpolice%2FLists%2FDepartment%20Services&Source=http%3A%2F%2Ftestwww%2Elowellma%2Egov%2FCityServices%2FPages%2FReportFile%2Easpx
Ned Christiansen
01-26-16, 10:44
The way it used to be here, you practically had to have already survived a verified attempt on your life to prove a "need".
But to be graded like a kid on your literary skills? Rewarded or not rewarded, arbitrarily, depending on whether or no some self-important, probably unelected, ivory tower bureaucrat "liked" it?
Something tells me if you're a best-selling author or poet extraordinaire, or university English professor, you will be found to have written an inadequate essay and therefore unworthy of being able to have the tools to prolong your existence.
Out. Effing. Rageous. And surely.... not legal?
Mauser KAR98K
01-26-16, 10:46
Poll tax, anyone?
I'll threaten your life for ya.
Anyone willing to witness it for Alex V?
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Florida doesn't seem to think I am unworthy, neither does Utah. I am just not the more equal animal in NJ. :(
All of this is outrageous. SCOTUS told us to pound sand and the lower courts all think that since NJ has been doing this for 70+ years it must be okay.
Lowell, a city in Massachusetts, requires CHP applicants to write “an essay” and pay upwards of $1,100 for training to be eligible to receive a CHP, which is issued at the discretion of the Chief of Police, the author of the "essay" requirement. Is this a reasonable requirement, and is it not overly burdensome on those who wish to exercise a constitutionally-protected right?
http://www.inquisitr.com/2738038/massachusetts-gun-essay-mandates-writing-component-to-concealed-carry-permit-approval-in-lowell/
And that's the problem and totally against 2A Const. Rights. In MA, it can be relatively easy to get your CHP to impossible, and it's essentially left to one person. That person could simply hate guns in the hands of private citizens to simply not liking you for dating his or her daughter to other personal reasons. The NE Shooters forum keeps an ongoing thread (https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/8703-Guide-to-gun-rights-in-your-Massachusetts-town) of friendly and non friendly towns, which can change when a chief comes into office. That one seem a no brainer for Const challenge via the courts, but it seems the NRA et al have abandoned MA as lost territory. GOAL (http://goal.org/) does the best job they can and have made some progress in important areas for the Rights of MA gun owners.
So, MA can be a relatively easy state to get a CHP to essentially impossible, depending the town you live in, which comes down to a single individual. Lowell is rated a red town in the link above, and obviously intent on making it damn near impossible to get a CHP in that town. Then there's the MA "approved" gun list, but that's another issue....
If not for the weather, the taxes, the gun laws, the Mass-holes, the traffic, the politics, the cost of living and the weather, MA would be a great state to live. :cool:
Eurodriver
01-26-16, 11:28
The amount of knowledge in this thread is vast.
The amount of action is little.
BoringGuy45
01-26-16, 11:46
MA is practically a "no issue" state when it comes to carry in some towns. They have three classes of carry permit: Class A, which is a license to carry high capacity capable firearms, though magazines over 10 rounds are banned. Class B, which is a license to own and take the range ONLY low capacity capable firearms. Firearms ID card, which is a license to own long guns.
Only Class A permits allow you to carry outside of the home in some cases. In most cases, however, they are issued with the restriction that you can only carry them for work, such as for security, armored truck, or police on a private university campus. Sometimes, however, they are issued with the restriction of ONLY going to the range, meaning not only can the local CLEO can deny you the right to carry, they can deny you the right to work in any armed capacity in the state besides municipal or state police.
Class B permits mean you can only OWN low capacity weapons. That's right, you had your eye on a Glock 19? Tough, the chief in your town only does Class B permits. You're limited to revolvers, pocket guns, and target .22 pistols. Quite a few chiefs will only issue Class B permits.
FIDs are shall issue, but you're pretty much limited to hunting rifles and shotguns.
Also, the chief can deny either class of carry license for any reason including none at all. Not only that, he can downgrade your Class A license to a Class B for any reason including none, or can revoke your license if he, for any reason, deems you "unsuitable." In that case, you have to turn in any firearms that were covered by that license. So, your last chief was a gun guy, and he gave you an unrestricted Class A. So you got yourself a couple nice Glocks, M&Ps, pre-ban ARs, etc. The new chief comes in, and he's a Bloomberg loving anti-gunner. His rule is unless you're a hunter, nobody but he and his officers are going to own guns in his town. So, he sends you a letter telling you that you have to relinquish your entire collection except your fudd guns. Oh, and you wonder what your compensation is going to be for the $5000+ in guns that you're losing? How's not getting butt raped for 10 years in state prison sound for compensation?? Turn 'em in or we WILL come and take them!
MA sucks sweaty balls for gun laws.
If not for the weather, the taxes, the gun laws, the Mass-holes, the traffic, the politics, the cost of living and the weather, MA would be a great state to live.
I'm used to the weather and even have fond memories of bad snow storms and cold as **** days. The traffic there is no worse than it is here in the Philly metro area, and it's nothing like NYC or DC. As asocial as Mass-holes are, they are nothing compared to "Connectic*nts". Mass is grumpy, Connecticut is downright mean. As you know, if you know how to communicate with New Englanders, you can eventually make friends. Before we moved down here to PA, my wife and I had planned on moving up to the North Shore, where we went to school. I love MA, except the politics and gun laws. That and the beyond-moronic hiring procedure for police officers (the good ol' civil circus), so that closed that door and we moved to here. No regrets, but I still miss the good parts about Mass.
brickboy240
01-26-16, 13:44
This is not East Germany, circa 1955...you don't HAVE to stay living in states like that.
It's "unreasonable" that you have to have a permit to carry a gun in the first place. Forget the requirements altogether.
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This is not East Germany, circa 1955...you don't HAVE to stay living in states like that.
It's the United States of America. No one should have to move anywhere to exercise their liberties & freedoms
Moose-Knuckle
01-26-16, 16:22
It's 2016, it's easier to obtain a LGBT marriage license and to abort a baby than it is to legally carry firearms in some places.
Tyranny and oppression...
This is what is fundamentally wrong with "may issue" states.
Poor people should have to write an essay to qualify for "free speech."
The amount of knowledge in this thread is vast.
The amount of action is little.
So other than sending an email to a tip line, which will be ignored, what should I be doing? I'm not a resident of the state in question so I can't even attempt to vote on their policies.
I'm an NRA life member, which is about the only thing I can do, and that won't amount to major policy changes either.
It's 2016, it's easier to obtain a LGBT marriage license and to abort a baby than it is to legally carry firearms in some places.
Now THAT is depressing. I thought I was in a funk when a hard-to-get spring flew across my gun room and after two hours on my hands and knees failed to find it.
Hell, at least I'll wake up in Wyoming in the morning.
And that's the problem and totally against 2A Const. Rights. In MA, it can be relatively easy to get your CHP to impossible, and it's essentially left to one person. That person could simply hate guns in the hands of private citizens to simply not liking you for dating his or her daughter to other personal reasons. The NE Shooters forum keeps an ongoing thread (https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/8703-Guide-to-gun-rights-in-your-Massachusetts-town) of friendly and non friendly towns, which can change when a chief comes into office. That one seem a no brainer for Const challenge via the courts, but it seems the NRA et al have abandoned MA as lost territory. GOAL (http://goal.org/) does the best job they can and have made some progress in important areas for the Rights of MA gun owners.
So, MA can be a relatively easy state to get a CHP to essentially impossible, depending the town you live in, which comes down to a single individual. Lowell is rated a red town in the link above, and obviously intent on making it damn near impossible to get a CHP in that town. Then there's the MA "approved" gun list, but that's another issue....
If not for the weather, the taxes, the gun laws, the Mass-holes, the traffic, the politics, the cost of living and the weather, MA would be a great state to live. :cool:
The NRA is you, me and anyone else who is interested, they didn't abandon anybody. There is NOTHING illegal about holding NRA/ILA fundraising in Mass. There is nothing illegal about holding a Friends of NRA event either. Raise the money, show the NRA they have people to support in Mass. Use that money to fight. It takes citizens of Mass to take up the fight and fight for their rights. The NRA didn't give up on Mass, the gun owners of Mass gave up on Mass.
People think Alaska is all gun friendly, but in my life time we have gone from no concealed carry at all, to permitted concealed carry (but cities could ban it), to permitted concealed carry with state preemption, to constitutional carry. This stuff doesn't happen all by itself. Interested people fought for it.
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