View Full Version : Whats the general opinion on Spikes?
TheNegativeOne
02-03-16, 05:52
I used to hear good stuff about them. Now, I really dont hear anything at all. Most of what i hear about is BCM, DD, COLT. How does Spikes stack up?
I think people don't like them as a company due to their price gouging a few years back. Plus they have a roll mark that looks like Darth Vader or two dicks.
I think they're ok. But you aren't getting better quality than bcm with spikes and you aren't saving money either.
mkmckinley
02-03-16, 06:10
BCM,Colt,DD>Spikes
firefighter37
02-03-16, 06:37
I pass on Spikes because like others have said, you aren't getting any special deals price wise, quality is average, the price gouging years ago was BS, and their zombie crap makes them seem airsoft crowd oriented. On the other hand, they do attract a certain demographic because of their fancy rollmarks and stuff. I don't anything from them, and don't plan to. Colt, BCM, KAC, LMT, and Noveske have plenty of great products for me. Colt, BCM, and LMT are at a similar price point to Spikes, which makes them seem like a no brainer to me.
I've bought two of their stripped lowers. One is still in use but the other I couldn't get any mag I tried in it to drop free from the magwell. So that one was promptly sold off.
I think the above posts state what the general consensus is on them. Their products are ok, but they're buttholes [emoji23], and you can find better brands at the same price point.
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On the bright side, seems I hear very little from them. Seems they used to be everywhere, now they are quiet, other than that bit about the Crusader. I think they generally good stuff, but I don't see any reason to chose them over other known makers.
BlueCollar_SD
02-03-16, 07:47
I regularly use spikes lowers, BCG's and other parts. I've been happy with the fit, finish & function of every part.
Why would anyone bother when you can get a complete colt for sub $900? I guess that's the real question, you don't get anything from spikes that you couldn't get for less money with better quality.
Averageman
02-03-16, 08:47
Why would anyone bother when you can get a complete colt for sub $900? I guess that's the real question, you don't get anything from spikes that you couldn't get for less money with better quality.
I've got a Spikes lower under a BCM upper. I haven't had an issue with the lower, but I have to agree with the above.
With the history of gouging prices and the current prices and available quality, I have to agree with the above; Why Bother??
crusader377
02-03-16, 08:58
Spikes makes a good rifle but their niche is becoming increasingly small. Basically that niche was for a value oriented customer who wanted something better than a Bushmaster, Rock River, etc... but didn't want to pay $1000+ for a Colt. Now that Colt has been very aggressive on their pricing and Colts have been found in the $800-$900 range, it has pretty much eliminated the niche that Spikes was in.
Just IMHO:
Spikes = PSA=Delton= Aero Precision BUT all of those brands are < Colt, BCM, DD, LMT,
On the flip side, also IMHO, Spike/PSA/DT/Aero > Bushmaster, DPMS, Anderson, and a bunch of others.
In other words, decent "entry level" and/or beater, truck guns, range toys, plinkers, etc.....but perhaps "go to war" quality they may not be.
Given the choice, out of the Spikes, PSA, Del-ton, Aero grouping, I always chose Aero 1st, everything I have ever gotten from them seems to be a hair better in fit/finish than the rest of the group, and I go PSA #2, because they just have sales that are often hard to beat for on the bang for the buck meter.
I try to buy my "parts that matter".....IE Bolts, carriers, barrels, from the Colt/BCM/DD/LMT group. Although PSA's "premium" barrels made by FN are very good for the money.
I usually stick with Aero for stripped uppers/lowers, but I admit, I have a few Anderson lowers just because they are cheap and they work.
Freethought
02-03-16, 09:39
Just IMHO:
Spikes = PSA=Delton= Aero Precision BUT all of those brands are < Colt, BCM, DD, LMT, Armalite
On the flip side, also IMHO, Spike/PSA/DT/Aero > Bushmaster, DPMS, Anderson, and a bunch of others.
In other words, decent "entry level" and/or beater, truck guns, range toys, plinkers, etc.....but perhaps "go to war" quality they may not be.
Fairly succinct assessment. I hesitate to enter these "can of worms" discussions , but with LMT , Colt etc prices being what they now are I wonder why anyone would go with the lower quality units currently available. But the what would I know since I shoot Noveske ,Lmt and Larue stuff.
Really it rather comes down to what sort of quality you may wish to possibly bet your life on doesn't it? I prefer to hedge my bets in that regard.
Averageman
02-03-16, 10:32
There are a few people that will tell you a lower is a lower, is a lower.
Over the Holidays I tried to put one together that I got in the "Bad Old Days" when lowers were pretty hard to get. You're not going to catch the littlest of things until you start putting things together. Having the safety detent not drilled out to spec. may not be a big deal to some, but if I have to clean it up with a file it becomes an issue to me.
It isn't that the lower is bad per se, what gets me is these things leave the floor without a close enough Q/C to be caught. That makes me question other things. In the end, yes it cleaned up with a file and it's now sitting in a box under my bench.
I purchased a BCM lower and went ahead with putting my rifle together with much more confidence.
TheNegativeOne
02-03-16, 10:41
10-4. I get it. Im a BCM guy myself. I bought a .300 spikes a couple of years ago. I shot it once, it was fine, the fit and finish is excellent but I really have no use for it. Im selling it to a co worker and he asked me about the quality and I really didnt know. I ended up spending about $1400 on the whole thing but Im letting it go for $1000.
mutedblade
02-03-16, 14:13
Piggybacking and piling on, I will say that they (Spikes) are overpriced chunks of aluminum and the company does not value the end user. They gouged when they shouldn't have and that puts them on the list of companies I do not and will not do business with. I understand market shares and supply/demand but throwing it to someone just because you can doesn't make anything but enemies! I'll stick with the likes of BCM, Colt, and a few others depending on needs. Remember, things are kinda soft right now in the AR market with plenty of options. Personally, I am surprised that you are getting $1k for it. Use that money and build something nice for yourself!
Can't speak to complete rifles, but I've bought a 3 receivers from them, and a couple of lower parts kits. Generally happy with both. The receivers were sold as blemished receivers, so I got a pretty good discount and on 2 of the 3 it was hard to even find the blemish (not so much on the 3rd). The lower parts kits were complete, went together with no problems and have worked. Of course, I think most LPK's are honestly pretty fungible, particularly since I always replace the stock trigger. I also have a RRA LPK and have used an AeroPrecision receiver for at least one build and would say that they are indistinguishable from the Spikes lowers I put together.
I have no opinion on spikes, but I'd like to know where everybody is finding all these colts for less than $900?
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Dionysusigma
02-03-16, 18:13
I have no opinion on spikes, but I'd like to know where everybody is finding all these colts for less than $900?
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6721
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6920-m-4-detail.html?Itemid=0
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6720-lightweight-16-carbine-detail.html?Itemid=0
Trouble is, now that they're less expensive, they sell out quickly. :(
My buddy has one of those Spike BCG's with all the holes drilled out of it and every time I see it I want to throw it down range! If that didn't bother me that much they still loose me with those dam lowers with all the teeth and faces on them.
Gabriel556
02-03-16, 18:24
I have some experience with them. I didn't deal with them when prices were high but as a business, I understand the reasoning(however unethical it was). I have one of their pirate lowers that I actually like(I am an avid boater so it goes with the calico jack flag I fly sometimes). It actually went together very well and the finish is great on it. I have also used their LPKs and their NIB trigger. It is actually smoother than the ALG I've used. My brother in law built an upper out of Spikes parts and it shoots great for thousands of rounds in the year he's had it. Are there cheaper options out there? Yes. Are there better options out there? Maybe. But these answers are always maybe or yes no matter what you talk about.
Would I buy a lower for a specific rollmark? Probably not. But I like my unusual one. And honestly, from the few experiences I have with the company, attitude or not, they take care of their customers. That's my view. YMMV.
I have "built" up three spikes stripped lowers, primarily because they were available at my LGS and of reasonable cost.
- 7075-T6 Forged
- Well finished and the finish holds up well
- Dimensions were correct, all LPK parts installed without issue
- Upper to lower fit is perfect
- Some don't like their graphics
- I installed Colt LPK's, without triggers, in all three
- I installed G-Triggers (SSA-E) in all three
- I installed HK grips on all three
- I installed VLTOR A5 receiver extensions / buffers in all three
- I installed VLTOR stocks on all three
- I put DD uppers of varying length on all three
- One of them is engraved and on Form 1 as an SBR
I have zero issues using spikes stripped lowers as stated above. I would not buy a complete Spikes rifle or use their other parts in critical areas of the rifle.
The SBR is pictured below, as described above. Go ahead and laugh at the Red Spider AND the EOTech, get it out of your system.
http://hkguns.zenfolio.com/img/s12/v178/p269855982-5.jpg
turnburglar
02-03-16, 18:36
I also have a stripped spikes lower, but ONLY bought it cause it was the only choice if I wanted to finish up my BCM build (2013). I don't care for the roll mark, but the rifles runs and runs well.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6721
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6920
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6920-m-4-detail.html?Itemid=0
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/colt-6720-lightweight-16-carbine-detail.html?Itemid=0
Trouble is, now that they're less expensive, they sell out quickly. :(
All out of stock. That's my point.
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All out of stock. That's my point.
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https://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/6920?op=
I regularly use spikes lowers, BCG's and other parts. I've been happy with the fit, finish & function of every part.
About the same for me.
Why would anyone bother when you can get a complete colt for sub $900? I guess that's the real question, you don't get anything from spikes that you couldn't get for less money with better quality.
IIRC they are priced about the same, and Spikes specs are very similar. Reputation on the other hand is another story. I don't have an issue with Spikes and have never had any problems with their products.
My opinion;
"Why?"
Options. Its a free country after all.
TheNegativeOne
02-03-16, 19:39
Piggybacking and piling on, I will say that they (Spikes) are overpriced chunks of aluminum and the company does not value the end user. They gouged when they shouldn't have and that puts them on the list of companies I do not and will not do business with. I understand market shares and supply/demand but throwing it to someone just because you can doesn't make anything but enemies! I'll stick with the likes of BCM, Colt, and a few others depending on needs. Remember, things are kinda soft right now in the AR market with plenty of options. Personally, I am surprised that you are getting $1k for it. Use that money and build something nice for yourself!
I just got my 16" BCM midlength kmr alpha upper today. Im using the $1000 to finish it. The spikes gun really is nice though. I cant say anything bad about it. I just wish someone would have never pointed out the double cocks, I cant look at it the same way anymore.
fallenromeo
02-03-16, 19:41
I have used their lowers and LPKs, never had a problem. If you can get them for a good price, they are worth having. If they are in the same price range as BCM, go with BCM.
https://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/6920?op=
One in stock out of all those, except for an oem for $899. Shipping, furniture, and txfer puts that over a grand. The other one with those added (minus furniture) is close to that.
I'll keep shopping locally I guess.
On the OP thread... I'd still pay over that to get the colt over spikes. What with the dicks and all.
ETA: forgot my manners...thank you for the link. I'd never have found that.
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Toyoland66
02-03-16, 20:19
I think they cater to the bros in the gun market.
Lowers with magwells shaped like skulls....what the actual f?
TheNegativeOne
02-03-16, 20:23
One in stock out of all those, except for an oem for $899. Shipping, furniture, and txfer puts that over a grand. The other one with those added (minus furniture) is close to that.
I'll keep shopping locally I guess.
On the OP thread... I'd still pay over that to get the colt over spikes. What with the dicks and all.
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Yes, the dicks. I wish that would have never been pointed out. I didnt see them until someone highlighted them on another site. I never knew what people were talking about with the "double cocks" It cannot be unseen.
titsonritz
02-03-16, 20:33
One in stock out of all those, except for an oem for $899. Shipping, furniture, and txfer puts that over a grand. The other one with those added (minus furniture) is close to that.
I'll keep shopping locally I guess.
On the OP thread... I'd still pay over that to get the colt over spikes. What with the dicks and all.
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I found four or five.
their lowers are good, but the roll marks are hideous, their battle triggers (not the enhanced version) are quite nice, comparable to an ACT or PNT
lawusmc0844
02-04-16, 00:59
Yes, the dicks. I wish that would have never been pointed out. I didnt see them until someone highlighted them on another site. I never knew what people were talking about with the "double cocks" It cannot be unseen.
Funny but at the same time disgusting! I don't want to see dicks engraved on my weapons, that ****ing logo itself is a big reason why I dont care for Spikes. Plus what a stupid name lol
TheChunkNorris
02-04-16, 01:05
I've built several lowers for friends and have a couple myself. It's funny who things work, they dropped their 9mm/22LR stuff and now it's all the rage. I've shot some their Compressor stuff and it's pretty cool. Keep an eye out on their .308 and their new integrally suppressed 9mm.
I think they cater to the bros in the gun market.
Lowers with magwells shaped like skulls....what the actual f?
This...but I think that's why they do well. They cater to a certain crowd. The "bros" like the zombies, punisher, honey badger, and whatever the hell else Spikes puts on these lowers.
With that said, I don't fall into that crowd, but I do happen to have a build with a Spikes lower and Spikes lpk. It's what was availble to me so I went for it. It's decent quality and has not given me any issues.
Yeah, most people probably think it's kind of strange to have the dueling dicks looking you in the face whenever you pick the rifle up, but honestly I don't care if the rollmarks are a picture of a unicorn shitting my name in stars. If it does its job, I'm alright with it.
I would question some of their choice in spokesman but I have purchased a few of their parts over the years and there is nothing wrong with them functionally.
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With that said, I don't fall into that crowd, but I do happen to have a build with a Spikes lower and Spikes lpk. It's what was availble to me so I went for it. It's decent quality and has not given me any issues.
Same here. My coyote rifle is built on a spikes lower my LGS had on sale back when I was in college. It works perfectly well and the price was right at the time.
Singlestack Wonder
02-08-16, 12:08
If one is justifying why they purchased a spikes vs. a BCM, DD, LMT, etc., rather than saying, " I wasn't well informed about rifles, it was given to me, etc.,", they just don't get it.
I don't like Spikes simply because they market items that functionally do nothing but look "cool" to a certain market. That's the crowd they are after, those guys who are into building an AR that looks cool to their buddies because they have "fake cans" on their rifle. They are the same guys you see that have one of those Spikes lowers that looks like it belongs in a comic book. Building lowers like that is a joke and for anybody that doesn't know what I mean check their website and see for yourself.
Any company that markets and sells fake items can not be taken seriously IMO. They also have pulled other stunts in the past like mentioned in earlier posts. I just can't get behind a company like that, no matter their prices.
If one is justifying why they purchased a spikes vs. a BCM, DD, LMT, etc., rather than saying, " I wasn't well informed about rifles, it was given to me, etc.,", they just don't get it.
And I would argue, if someone is saying "go buy this" without first asking "what are the requirements?" they just don't get it ;)
I've said before if your use is "breaking shit and killing people" then the brands you mentioned are top choices. If your use is something else, then something else might fit your needs better. There's a reason my HD rifle is a BCM 14.5" middy and at the same time, there's a reason my coyote rifle isn't.
As far as stripped lowers, if it's forged 7075-T6 and dimensionally in spec, it's really inconsequential who's name is on the side. Sometimes it seems people want to spend money just for the sake of spending money. If you can cover up the roll marks and can't tell which is which with an appropriate set of metrology tools, what exactly are you getting for the extra $
Mrgunsngear
02-08-16, 13:38
FWIW I have a Spikes "M4 LE Carbine" and it's been flawless. Seems like a solid rifle.
...they have a roll mark that looks like Darth Vader's two dicks
That explains so much
TheNegativeOne
02-08-16, 14:51
FWIW I have a Spikes "M4 LE Carbine" and it's been flawless. Seems like a solid rifle.
Oh crap! Youre up here! Love your youtube channel, been watching for years.
rocket 442
02-08-16, 15:09
Spikes has an opportunity to make a great carbine( CHF barrels, 7075t6 uppers & lower made for them by Aero) but the rollmarks, fake cans & powdered tungsten buffers turns anyone with half a brain away. Plus their pricing for what you get isn't that much lower than a BCM,Colt. I was at a gunshow this weekend & saw a pseudo operater walking around in tactical clothes & such. I asked him if his carbine was for sale,he says" no I just want to show people what they can build" ;-(
Spikes Zombie lower, utg rail, NCStar greendot..... Obviously Spikes is filling a niche in the market.
TheNegativeOne
02-13-16, 07:13
Spikes has an opportunity to make a great carbine( CHF barrels, 7075t6 uppers & lower made for them by Aero) but the rollmarks, fake cans & powdered tungsten buffers turns anyone with half a brain away. Plus their pricing for what you get isn't that much lower than a BCM,Colt. I was at a gunshow this weekend & saw a pseudo operater walking around in tactical clothes & such. I asked him if his carbine was for sale,he says" no I just want to show people what they can build" ;-(
Spikes Zombie lower, utg rail, NCStar greendot..... Obviously Spikes is filling a niche in the market.
Whats wrong with the buffers?
TheChunkNorris
02-13-16, 07:19
Spikes has an opportunity to make a great carbine( CHF barrels, 7075t6 uppers & lower made for them by Aero) but the rollmarks, fake cans & powdered tungsten buffers turns anyone with half a brain away. Plus their pricing for what you get isn't that much lower than a BCM,Colt. I was at a gunshow this weekend & saw a pseudo operater walking around in tactical clothes & such. I asked him if his carbine was for sale,he says" no I just want to show people what they can build" ;-(
Spikes Zombie lower, utg rail, NCStar greendot..... Obviously Spikes is filling a niche in the market.
Hmmmm Spikes has been around for a while now and I've built several of both... fit and finish is better on the Spikes. Not saying you're wrong but I'm saying it's hard to believe.
Spikes stripped lowers are nearly always double what I can get an AP for, and I prefer the AP.
Same for their complete lowers, I'd rather have LMT for roughly the same money.
When I see people who buy into the spikes "improved" ecosystem (buffers, rails, etc) I just nod and smile. Better than delton or dpms. But not worth the premium.
TheNegativeOne
02-13-16, 08:36
Spikes stripped lowers are nearly always double what I can get an AP for, and I prefer the AP.
Same for their complete lowers, I'd rather have LMT for roughly the same money.
When I see people who buy into the spikes "improved" ecosystem (buffers, rails, etc) I just nod and smile. Better than delton or dpms. But not worth the premium.
So whats wrong with the buffers? They were all the rage when they came out with claims of smoother operation or softer recoil, I dont recall which, maybe both.
So whats wrong with the buffers? They were all the rage when they came out with claims of smoother operation or softer recoil, I dont recall which, maybe both.
I have no personal experience with Spikes buffers but it almost seems routine how often someone pops up on this forum trying to figure out why their gun doesn't function properly and then end up solving their problems by replacing the Spikes buffer with a standard H or H2 buffer.
So whats wrong with the buffers? They were all the rage when they came out with claims of smoother operation or softer recoil, I dont recall which, maybe both.
As ar as I'm concerned they are a solution in search of a problem. Probably an over reaction on my part to the people claiming to have designed a better AR and it turns out what they did was put in a magic buffer and face the nose of the receiver to quote unquote improve accuracy. Seems like everybody knows at least one acquaintance trying to market a better AR to their local PD.
Spikes sells good stuff, but doesn't have many fans here. Rarely if ever do you find anyone with an issue with their stuff outside of superficial things like their marketing. Fit, function, and quality wise they're fine. I've built many rifles using their stuff and never had any issues. I've put thousands of rounds down range through their stuff with no issues. My primary AR is built using one of their old "THUG" series lowers and it's one of the nicest lowers I've come across. I believe those were made by Mega but I'm not certain.
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I don't think spikes is bad per se, they're just not better than Aero precision or PSA for the same spec (chf, etc) and are usually much more expensive. And I can get better for the same or less.
Plus early on they were very optimistic or aggressive on claiming Mil Spec when they were not. They like, others, have now improved in that area.
I don't think spikes is bad per se, they're just not better than Aero precision or PSA for the same spec (chf, etc) and are usually much more expensive. And I can get better for the same or less.
Plus early on they were very optimistic or aggressive on claiming Mil Spec when they were not. They like, others, have now improved in that area.
I would say Aero or PSA may be a better buy cost wise but I wouldn't make the claim they're better quality wise...especially PSA. How many of each have you assembled, shot, or used over a period of time to make that claim as it relates to quality? I've done a lot and my opinions are based on that hands on with many different brands not just forum chatter that gets repeated ad nauseum.
I also remember the issues around their specs being questioned and them not wanting to divulge some info on their suppliers and such. I found that all funny at the time considering they weren't really any different than some of the other prominent companies who weren't into telling who made their stuff and specific specs, etc. either but they weren't being scrutinized at the same level.
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I've used several of their lowers (which I believe are mil spec) with no problems. They've worked fine and continue to do so. One Spikes lower (originally a stripped lower) I have attached to a BCM 16" CHF KMR upper which has and continues to run flawlessly. The only thing I don't like are some of the silly logos they have on their lowers (which I don't have, I use the standard one with the spider logo - which I'm not crazy about either) but that is cosmetic and personal preference, not a quality or functional issue. Id rather have bought a BCM stripped lower but could never find one, and would rather build one myself than spend $400 for a BCM complete lower (as great as it may be). I was told that Spikes lowers are Mil spec, so buying one for the right price wouldn't be any worse than any other mil spec stripped lower, so I got a couple and they have performed flawlessly so far.
Nocalsocal
02-13-16, 13:03
Spikes doesn't get much love here especially when saving a little more $ can get a vetted brand that explains why they meet the TDP. Spikes seems to hit the mark in every spec but consistently comes in at a lower price. And people can't understand how they do it. The only thing that people seem to jump on is their choice of branding/logos. That being said I've had nothing but good experiences with their barrels, hpt/mpi BCGs, lpks, lowers, uppers, mil spec carbine buffer tube kits etc. You can see where I'm going with this. If you just stick with their, should I dare to say, "mil-spec/LE builds" you probably won't find anything wrong.
TheNegativeOne
02-13-16, 13:23
I've used several of their lowers (which I believe are mil spec) with no problems. They've worked fine and continue to do so. One Spikes lower (originally a stripped lower) I have attached to a BCM 16" CHF KMR upper which has and continues to run flawlessly. The only thing I don't like are some of the silly logos they have on their lowers (which I don't have, I use the standard one with the spider logo - which I'm not crazy about either) but that is cosmetic and personal preference, not a quality or functional issue. Id rather have bought a BCM stripped lower but could never find one, and would rather build one myself than spend $400 for a BCM complete lower (as great as it may be). I was told that Spikes lowers are Mil spec, so buying one for the right price wouldn't be any worse than any other mil spec stripped lower, so I got a couple and they have performed flawlessly so far.
The BCM lower I bought wed. will end up being over $500. More like $530 - $550 after transfer but I got all the options I wanted.
The BCM lower I bought wed. will end up being over $500. More like $530 - $550 after transfer but I got all the options I wanted.
I was going by the price for the standard BCM lower at Brownells. All I was saying is that it came out to less money for me to build one myself. Of course if I had the money I would love to have a BCM lower.
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/lower-receivers/ar-15-complete-lower-receiver-w-bcmgunfighter-stock-prod83804.aspx
TheNegativeOne
02-13-16, 14:25
Spikes doesn't get much love here especially when saving a little more $ can get a vetted brand that explains why they meet the TDP. Spikes seems to hit the mark in every spec but consistently comes in at a lower price. And people can't understand how they do it. The only thing that people seem to jump on is their choice of branding/logos. That being said I've had nothing but good experiences with their barrels, hpt/mpi BCGs, lpks, lowers, uppers, mil spec carbine buffer tube kits etc. You can see where I'm going with this. If you just stick with their, should I dare to say, "mil-spec/LE builds" you probably won't find anything wrong.
I have a spikes 10 1/2" 300blk pistol. The fit and finish are excellent. It wont cycle sub sonic loads though. Thats why Im asking about the t2 buffer. I put a few 110's through it and it ran fine.
Nocalsocal
02-13-16, 14:43
Sorry, I have zero experience with any 300 blackout. But I have a 4 yr old or so 5.56 Spikes Mid length optimum profile barreled upper that's been flawless from the day one. I currently run it on Vltor A5 lower but when it was stock it still ran like champ.
titsonritz
02-13-16, 14:43
I just can't get past the dueling dicks.
I would say Aero or PSA may be a better buy cost wise but I wouldn't make the claim they're better quality wise...especially PSA.
Look back at my post. I never said PSA or Aero was better. I consider them all the same. Mid-tier clone mfgs that learned enough early how to play the "close to mil-spec" game.
I also remember the issues around their specs being questioned and them not wanting to divulge some info on their suppliers and such. I found that all funny at the time considering they weren't really any different than some of the other prominent companies who weren't into telling who made their stuff and specific specs, etc. either but they weren't being scrutinized at the same level.
It was more than divulging suppliers, it was claiming mil spec, then being caught out on it. Such as using billet rather than the correct forged alloy for buffer tubes. Non HPT/MPI of bolts. Then batch testing, etc.
They were not alone in this, PSA had the same issue. But PSA did not debate it, they documented it or made the production change if needed. Handled it completely differently than spikes. I don't give other companies a pass on claiming TDP knowledge, as far as I can tell, only Colt and FN have it. Others may be getting close, or even duplicating known aspects of the mil-spec guns. But if they have the TDP, someone is in violation. Which is why they won't claim publicly to do so.
Spikes has an attitude that turn some off, and was not bashful about showing it. If you want to sell comic book lowers, that's OK, there's a market for it. But if you are going to make bold claims about being mil-spec, better be ready to back it up. They were not.
As to value... Spike's cheapest complete lower is $300. Not bad, but also does not specify receiver extension alloy, etc. That's what I paid for a LMT complete lower ordered via my LGS. And I get a lower and or lower components that is in use in by major militaries from a company that did $31M of military weapon business with the US mil thru 2014. And more mil business with their UK and NZ contracts. Multiple involvement points with various SOC/SOPMOD/etc contracts as well, actually contributed expertise as well as mfg.
The LMT lowers had a price bump, and are now $346-360. But I'd still pay it, as it's still a screaming deal relative to alternatives. I don't find LMT defender uppers as compelling, but I'd take their BCG, upper receiver, and even some of their barrels in a heartbeat.
So I don't hate or dislike spikes. I just don't find them a value, nor do I consider most of their claim to fame (exotic lower designs, exotic buffers, etc) of interest. Same for their barrels. Not bad, but for the money I'd rather have DD who controls their own production, owns their own machines, etc.
Nocalsocal
02-13-16, 14:46
I just can't get past the dueling dicks.
I never noticed the dicks until it was pointed out to me years ago. And honestly now that's all that I see as well. FML. Go dueling dicks!
I never noticed the dicks until it was pointed out to me years ago. And honestly now that's all that I see as well. FML. Go dueling dicks!
I guess we can all thank Grant for that. I've got one and that is all I see.
Dan
TheNegativeOne
02-13-16, 16:25
I never noticed the dicks until it was pointed out to me years ago. And honestly now that's all that I see as well. FML. Go dueling dicks!
Same here. Now i have to notice it everytime i pull it out.
"Pull it out" Lol
Same here. Now i have to notice it everytime i pull it out.
"Pull it out" Lol
'scuse me while I whip this out.... " (Blazing Saddles)
I've got a complete spikes gun. They were almost the only one in the market making a Dissipator upper when I was looking for one. Mated it with one of their Spider color fill lowers. I wasn't looking for their exact lower I just needed one to go under a BCM upper in 2008 when all the madness started and it was a good deal (sub 250 complete) it was just happy coincidence that I bought the upper to go with the lower. It's shot everything I have fed it, little less than 1500 rounds.
Also, I have one of their T-2 buffers sitting in a box somewhere.
thebarracuda
02-13-16, 19:37
I have a spikes as well. Its a fine rifle. But IMO spikes is kinda white noise now. DD, BCM, etc are innovating products, Colt is back to the civilian market. Spikes is just out there, with that logo. That logo... Uhhh.
teutonicpolymer
02-14-16, 10:42
My friend had a Spike's upper, and it was perfectly fine. The FSB wasn't canted, the fit and finish was fine, the bolt was C158 and marked HPT/MPI, the gas key staking was fine, etc.
I would've taken a build with that Spike's upper over a Colt 6920 because the Spike's was midlength.
Maybe Spike's hasn't recently been as innovative as others but they still have been making integrally suppressed guns for a while.
Would I buy a Spike's now? I'm not sure, but my hesitation comes mainly from other options being out there with features I want, not necessarily because Spike's is bad.
TheNegativeOne
02-15-16, 12:54
I've got a complete spikes gun. They were almost the only one in the market making a Dissipator upper when I was looking for one. Mated it with one of their Spider color fill lowers. I wasn't looking for their exact lower I just needed one to go under a BCM upper in 2008 when all the madness started and it was a good deal (sub 250 complete) it was just happy coincidence that I bought the upper to go with the lower. It's shot everything I have fed it, little less than 1500 rounds.
Also, I have one of their T-2 buffers sitting in a box somewhere.
PSA has dissipators now. I was thinking of picking one up for my PSA lower. I put the lower together thinking i wanted one of those double thick chrome uppers then i decided i wanted the brovo company recce, just waiting on the lower to come in. I got the upper last week with the kmr 15 alpha.
Spike's: won't buy again. Average price, average performance, nothing remarkable about the product. To be fair, what I bought has run without problems. If that's as high as you set the bar, they're a viable supplier.....
This is the type of open, honest feedback a reputable company pays big money hoping to acquire. For their sakes, I hope they're watching.
I bought a lower and a blemished upper. The upper was supposedly guaranteed to be fully functioning, just blemished. That wasn't the case, I had to remove material from the front bottom of the upper near the push pin in order to align the holes. Even after that, just looking at the way it all lines up, it looks like 2 different manufacturers. My overall impression, inexperienced as I am: "meh" as my daughter would say.
Sent while driving 80mph on the freeway
To be fair, what I bought has run without problems. If that's as high as you set the bar, they're a viable supplier.....
Please explain how you set the bar higher for a stripped lower or elaborate on what you own.
A handy j would raise the bar
Sent while driving 80mph on the freeway
Please explain how you set the bar higher for a stripped lower or elaborate on what you own.
Sure, see if this helps. It started as a Spike's stripped lower, with Spike's LPK, Spike's Battle Trigger; Spike's-built complete upper with 16" mid-length M4 profile barrel, Spike's bolt carrier group, FSB, A2, T2 buffer. It was as close to a factory-built gun as it could be. It was over-gassed from the start; the T2 buffer accomplished nothing; the Battle Trigger was no better than a broken-in mil-spec unit, despite the NiB coating; just unremarkable.
This carbine was put together in 2010, when components were not plentiful. Spike's as a company seemed to have a good reputation, and I expected something really good. Had the sum of the parts come into my hands running smooth, ejecting properly, and having a better feel, I would have given it better marks.
Sure, see if this helps. It started as a Spike's stripped lower, with Spike's LPK, Spike's Battle Trigger; Spike's-built complete upper with 16" mid-length M4 profile barrel, Spike's bolt carrier group, FSB, A2, T2 buffer. It was as close to a factory-built gun as it could be. It was over-gassed from the start; the T2 buffer accomplished nothing; the Battle Trigger was no better than a broken-in mil-spec unit, despite the NiB coating; just unremarkable.
This carbine was put together in 2010, when components were not plentiful. Spike's as a company seemed to have a good reputation, and I expected something really good. Had the sum of the parts come into my hands running smooth, ejecting properly, and having a better feel, I would have given it better marks.
Their Battle trigger accomplishes the same thing as an ALG trigger, yet people give the ALG high marks. Both are meant to provide the feel of a worn in mil spec trigger.
I've seen over and undergassed top tier carbines from DD and Colt but they're always given a pass.
I guess my point is on the whole Spikes makes good stuff. Whether one chooses to buy their stuff over comparable stuff is personal choice but let's not try to make it an issue over poor quality if the quality issues are made up or forced issues.
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TheNegativeOne
02-16-16, 10:08
Their Battle trigger accomplishes the same thing as an ALG trigger, yet people give the ALG high marks. Both are meant to provide the feel of a worn in mil spec trigger.
I've seen over and undergassed top tier carbines from DD and Colt but they're always given a pass.
I guess my point is on the whole Spikes makes good stuff. Whether one chooses to buy their stuff over comparable stuff is personal choice but let's not try to make it an issue over poor quality if the quality issues are made up or forced issues.
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Theres cranks all over their products though
Nocalsocal
02-16-16, 11:03
I agree. Some manufacturers get a pass for occasionally putting out a out of spec part. While others, esp. Spikes gets the shaft and the entire product line is shunned for life. I've never really understood this. There is a thread here on the DD MK18s being overgassed. There was also one where their lower was out of spec. But they don't get the hate that Spikes gets. If you don't like their business practices or logos, fine. But at least be objective when reviewing their products.
I used ST's upper and lower on my first build along with buffer tube and lower parts kit. My only issue was that I had to true up the surfaces between the two. I had to do this to take the strain off the receiver takedown pins. I had to go through the FDE coating down to bare AL in a couple of areas. This is the rifle I currently run and after fixing that, she is running great. No issues on reliability.
Sure, see if this helps. It started as a Spike's stripped lower, with Spike's LPK, Spike's Battle Trigger; Spike's-built complete upper with 16" mid-length M4 profile barrel, Spike's bolt carrier group, FSB, A2, T2 buffer. It was as close to a factory-built gun as it could be. It was over-gassed from the start; the T2 buffer accomplished nothing; the Battle Trigger was no better than a broken-in mil-spec unit, despite the NiB coating; just unremarkable.
This carbine was put together in 2010, when components were not plentiful. Spike's as a company seemed to have a good reputation, and I expected something really good. Had the sum of the parts come into my hands running smooth, ejecting properly, and having a better feel, I would have given it better marks.
Thanks the added context helps avoid assumptions.
I have one of their dedicated .22lr uppers. Bought it play around with and has worked well for me- don't shoot it that much, only a couple thousand rounds thru it. No problems to date- sitting on an LMT lower
Lol
Sent while driving 80mph on the freeway
I used ST's upper and lower on my first build along with buffer tube and lower parts kit. My only issue was that I had to true up the surfaces between the two. I had to do this to take the strain off the receiver takedown pins. I had to go through the FDE coating down to bare AL in a couple of areas. This is the rifle I currently run and after fixing that, she is running great. No issues on reliability.
Sounds like the same issue I had, you said it better.
Sent while driving 80mph on the freeway
I used ST's upper and lower on my first build along with buffer tube and lower parts kit. My only issue was that I had to true up the surfaces between the two. I had to do this to take the strain off the receiver takedown pins. I had to go through the FDE coating down to bare AL in a couple of areas. This is the rifle I currently run and after fixing that, she is running great. No issues on reliability.
FDE? Was that finish applied by Spike's or a reseller?
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3gunshooter7681
02-17-16, 21:45
I picked up their 308 lower upper combo a few days ago. Looks pretty good.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160218/5a67d8e87eb3f55737520ba5446f3b54.jpg
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Gabriel556
02-18-16, 08:57
While I have a couple parts from them, I'm not a fanboy. I will say that I don't particularly like horses and that kind of turns me off to the Colt rollmark. However, I look at an AR as a tool and if it goes bang when I want it to, I don't care whether it's a horse or a spider(or whatever dueling dongs you see) on the side. I just want it to work. Now if we were discussing a nice English shotgun, I'd be pissed to see a spider on it.
I had one spikes lower so I can't comment on quality. Its hard to screw up a stripped lower. I will however never purchase another thing from them after they jacked up prices huge during the first big Obama scare years ago. That's their right of course, but also my right not to buy from them.
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I had one spikes lower so I can't comment on quality. Its hard to screw up a stripped lower. I will however never purchase another thing from them after they jacked up prices huge during the first big Obama scare years ago. That's their right of course, but also my right not to buy from them.
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Wasn't that pretty much everybody?
Not picking on you, but that same argument could be made about gasoline, peak time electricity, etc.
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No. For instance bravo company refused to raise their prices. When people started buying their stuff and reselling it with a huge mark up, bravo company raised their prices by adding a donation to the NRA, giving all the additional money to them. I had almost forgot about spikes and cheaper than dirt until a couple months back spikes posted a thing saying they would never raise their prices during a scare etc.. Its their right to do it, I don't have a problem with the practice, I just choose to give my money elsewhere
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Eurodriver
02-18-16, 13:42
I wasn't nearly as well versed in economics prior to Sandy Hook as I am now.
After being educated, I have absolutely zero issue with any company raising prices during periods of peak demand. Companies need to maintain cash flows and selling all of their inventory at one time and being unable to restock for quite a while is bad business practice, especially when your products are just being resold by neckbeards at 200% profit.
If you're not a communist and you understand how a free market works, you wouldn't either.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it, that's totally their choice, as it is mine to shop elsewhere with no hurt feelings. I was really only annoyed when they scolded price gougers on fb though and said they will not raise their prices for any scare when they had done so prior.
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rocket 442
02-18-16, 22:58
I wasn't nearly as well versed in economics prior to Sandy Hook as I am now.
After being educated, I have absolutely zero issue with any company raising prices during periods of peak demand. Companies need to maintain cash flows and selling all of their inventory at one time and being unable to restock for quite a while is bad business practice, especially when your products are just being resold by neckbeards at 200% profit.
If you're not a communist and you understand how a free market works, you wouldn't either.
As long as said companies don't cry when the scare is over. Boohoo I paid 1500.00 a piece for Colt 6920's from the Distributers after Sandy Hook & now they're 899.00
Boba Fett v2
02-18-16, 23:05
James Yeager endorses Spikes, so you know it oozes awesomeness. I'd take a Spikes Skull build over a KAC gun any day.
James Yeager endorses Spikes...
This is the most damming review in the whole thread. I could live with everything else, but this!?
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It's pretty well-known within the industry that Spikes has several other OEM's make their products (Aero & Seekins come to mind). While the brand/image they've built around their products may be distasteful to some, the quality in manufacturing is certainly there.
It's pretty well-known within the industry that Spikes has several other OEM's make their products (Aero & Seekins come to mind). While the brand/image they've built around their products may be distasteful to some, the quality in manufacturing is certainly there.
Which, again, puts them square in the mid-tier clone part pile. If the best one can say is it's made by AP, and I can (and do) buy AP lowers for $69 right now, how is double that justified for spikes?
At this point I draw the line at companies whose weapons or at least major subsystems are used by major armies. (Colt, DD, LMT, KAC, HK) I'd include FN, Steyr, Walther, etc in the mix if they made civvy source AR's
Especially when you can do so at the same cost in many cases. (KAC / HK excluded)
I got 2 Spikes stripped lowers 6 or so years ago when they was $45-50 range and no dicks engraved on them. Just standard black finish they work. For most part I could care less about what is engraved on it... with that I carried a GM HYDRO issued M-16a1 and H&R M-16a1 too. Then got issued aFN M-16a2 that was a POS, qualified with Colt M-16a2 that was new the sights was off 14 clicks and front sight had to be screwed in half way down just to hit zero target. It's a tool if it works for you go for it. My Colt M-4 I shot maybe 100 rnds though it's barrel otherwise I've had a BCM Mid light wgt. Upper on it.
I would probably not buy one now but unless I got a good deal on ones without a bunch of crap engraved
on it. I was a new company when I got them I flogged the crap out of one shooting stupid amount of steel cased ammo out of it. I've assembled 6-8 Anderson lowers lately getting a few more people in to the AR club. Not the top end but its with in there budget.
thebarracuda
02-20-16, 09:29
I wasn't nearly as well versed in economics prior to Sandy Hook as I am now.
After being educated, I have absolutely zero issue with any company raising prices during periods of peak demand. Companies need to maintain cash flows and selling all of their inventory at one time and being unable to restock for quite a while is bad business practice, especially when your products are just being resold by neckbeards at 200% profit.
If you're not a communist and you understand how a free market works, you wouldn't either.
Exactly. Its your day to cash in. Business is nothing but peaks and valleys. The peaks need to be good enough to sustain you through the valleys. Free to conduct business as you see fit.
thebarracuda
02-20-16, 09:32
I don't think there is anything wrong with it, that's totally their choice, as it is mine to shop elsewhere with no hurt feelings.
Also true, free to consume as you see fit. The beauty of free markets. We can choose whomever we want for whatever reasons we want.
GUNSLINGER733
02-20-16, 23:59
I own a lower from them. It works fine. Trigger pins seem to walk on it though. Only lower ice had that problem with.
Boba Fett v2
02-21-16, 02:55
Which, again, puts them square in the mid-tier clone part pile. If the best one can say is it's made by AP, and I can (and do) buy AP lowers for $69 right now, how is double that justified for spikes?
At this point I draw the line at companies whose weapons or at least major subsystems are used by major armies. (Colt, DD, LMT, KAC, HK) I'd include FN, Steyr, Walther, etc in the mix if they made civvy source AR's
Especially when you can do so at the same cost in many cases. (KAC / HK excluded)
FN does make civilian ARs. A buddy of mine recently picked up an FN15 Tactical Carbine.
https://www.fnamerica.com/products/carbines/fn-15-series/fn15-tactical/
FN does make civilian ARs. A buddy of mine recently picked up an FN15 Tactical Carbine.
https://www.fnamerica.com/products/carbines/fn-15-series/fn15-tactical/
FN's civvy ARs are not the same as they build for the military.
Many threads on why this is the case.
James Yeager endorses Spikes, so you know it oozes awesomeness.
How could they possibly be bad if Ole Yeller endorses them!!
Aside from the fact they took advantage of a struggling market when they could and the fact that people think their roll marks are cheesy, I don't think they make a bad product. I use their BCGs and they are every bit as good as any other BCG on the market. They use the same materials, have the same testing, and they have good QC, what more could you ask for. Now if you choose not to use a company's products because you don't agree with The way they chose to run their business then that's ones prerogative. However that doesn't mean that said company doesn't put out a high quality product.
I would be willing to bet that just about everyone here would take advantage of price gouging if they owned a business that was selling goods that were in high demand. It's human nature to line your pockets when you can and most humans are greedy and selfish. It just pisses us off when we're on the other side of the price gouging. Just being honest here. I've been in sales for many years and I've seen it all. When you have a product that is in high demand but supply is low the prices go up. Look at Fuel prices for example. When we have a plethora of fuel reserves then prices go down but when it's limited the price gets jacked up thru the roof.
Everyone didn't raise their prices. Companies like bravo company refused to. Its why I will always support them, even if it costs more.
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Everyone didn't raise their prices. Companies like bravo company refused to. Its why I will always support them, even if it costs more.
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Not apples to apples since Bravo wasn't selling lowers at the time and most everything else was out of stock except BCG'S which would come in a sell out within hours. Also, if memory serves me correct, the price of their BCG'S increased from the $135 price point to the current $189 price point.....where it remained. I too am a fan of Bravo but I'm not gonna deny the fact the Spike's wasn't the only company which had price increases
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When bravo increased their prices to stop people from buying and marking up their products they donated all the additional proceeds to the NRA
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When bravo increased their prices to stop people from buying and marking up their products they donated all the additional proceeds to the NRA
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And what about now?
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A normal price increase. My problem was never about the increase in price, but the timing was scummy.
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I hadn't even though about it until they posted this not too long ago. http://i65.tinypic.com/2a6pffl.png
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http://i38.tinypic.com/xmrjo9.png]http://i38.tinypic.com/xmrjo9.png
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I'm a roll mark sensitive kind of guy. I own LMT and Colt lowers with the exception of one Armalite I built with a Colt LPK.
I can't live with Spikes logos, especially the spider. Just not my style. At. All.
But. Back during '08, and again in '12, I assembled some guns with their LPKs, receivers, BCGs, barrels, and other stuff. Never had a bit of trouble with any of it and their Optimum Profile 16" mid barrels actually impressed me, and I'm a tough sell coming from Colt and KAC chome lined barrels.
I think they source quality parts, but I'm not their target in the market...
Primus Pilum
02-22-16, 14:10
Everyone didn't raise their prices. Companies like bravo company refused to. Its why I will always support them, even if it costs more.
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And everything was sold out, and as soon as something came in stock, it sold out in minutes.
It's simple supply and demand. What is better? For a few people or those without jobs/obligations to camp out stores and websites all day to buy up stock ? Or for prices to match up with demand so those that REALLY need something (IE water, food, ammo) still can buy it off the shelf? Paying $50 for a magazine or not being able to buy one because a few select people bought 10,000 of them at $9 each to hoard?
There is no such thing as price gouging. It is a term coined by irresponsible, pathetic people who fail to prepare or hedge their bets. Allowing Prices to move with S/D is the quickest way to end shortages as new entities will enter the market to normalize prices. Don't want to deal with price fluctuation? Buy it while its plentiful and stock up while its cheap. Then when the prices go through the roof you either sit on it or sell it for a profit.
I never said anything was wrong with it, I'd just rather do business,elsewhere. If you look at my earlier post you'll see a screenshot from the spikes fb page demonizing raising prices during a gun scare and how they said theyd never do it. Even they don't like it apparently. I wasn't hurt my the price raise, I had a box of lowers and around 200 mags before the first Obama election. I buy before panics.
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I have a Spikes midlength that I use as a patrol rifle. Had it for about 5 years. I bought the upper complete and built the lower. I didn't buy the upper directly from Spikes. The forward assist was broken. Spikes took care of it right away. I have a BCM BCG in it and a Geissele SSA trigger. No issues with the rifle at all.
Not apples to apples since Bravo wasn't selling lowers at the time and most everything else was out of stock except BCG'S which would come in a sell out within hours. Also, if memory serves me correct, the price of their BCG'S increased from the $135 price point to the current $189 price point.....where it remained. I too am a fan of Bravo but I'm not gonna deny the fact the Spike's wasn't the only company which had price increases
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$169.
$169.
That's their current sale price....most likely being driven by low demand.
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Wolfhound86
02-23-16, 10:08
I would be willing to bet that just about everyone here would take advantage of price gouging if they owned a business that was selling goods that were in high demand. It's human nature to line your pockets when you can and most humans are greedy and selfish. It just pisses us off when we're on the other side of the price gouging. Just being honest here. I've been in sales for many years and I've seen it all. When you have a product that is in high demand but supply is low the prices go up. Look at Fuel prices for example. When we have a plethora of fuel reserves then prices go down but when it's limited the price gets jacked up thru the roof.
This is not about greed or selfishness. When the demand of a product goes up domestically on any good the prices will surely skyrocket until either more producers enter the market, or foreign nations begin importing the product to increase supply. Could you imagine how insanely high ammo prices would be without surplus imports of ammo? Let's just say the average American would probably put firearms and shooting on the back burner because of how expensive it would be.
I have seen spikes rifles handle some pretty tough use.
They are a bit overgassed. Their T2 buffer is softer shooting but lots of bolt bounce. THey tend to cause other problems too. The weights in the buffer are designed to shift as solid objects, not a powder. I advise swapping it out if you have one, and deal with the recoil.
As far as seeing penises in their roll marks...I don't see 'em. I guess we find what we are looking for. Something Freudian about that IMO. LOL.
Their skulls, hogs, pirates, etc, aren't for me, but I bought an Infidel lower, and a Punisher lower. I like their Spartan lower too. Their Honey badger lower makes me laugh every time I see it.
Some of their stuff, I wonder..."WTF?" Other stuff ain't so bad.
The price gouging was bad, but if he changed his ways, and doesn't do it any more, good for him. I have made so many frikking mistakes in my life. Finally learning how to be a better father, husband, Patriot, and businessman through all the stupid mistakes I have made.
Primus Pilum
02-23-16, 11:09
There is no such thing as price gouging, the same as there is no such thing as a banana clip.
It's a term of ignorance.
There is no such thing as price gouging
Sure there is. Some people call it supply and demand. Just a different label. Those who are against it, give it a name that engenders suggested immorality. Those who see it as a free market practice, don't attach such inflammatory labels.
To say there is no such thing because you don't agree with someone else's moral stance and prejudice, doesn't change the fact that someone has labeled it. You may not like the label, but it does exist. It may not bug you that people were making 3x to 4x actual price for hard to find items. It did bother some people though.
I've had a spikes lower on my M4 since about 2010. It was the second rifle I built myself and I beat the dog piss out of it.
Zero problems with it. The trigger POSSIBLY was a DD LPK but I can't remember. I DO know, that G.I trigger cleaned up beautiful after about 10k rounds. It's just a perfect trigger IMO.
Back when I picked it up I believe it was around $275 for the complete lower minus the CTR stock.
Not sure what the prices are now but as the thread has stated maybe they raised prices. It was cool back then because it was an affordable alternative to the top tier stuff prices. While I will stand by my purchase, I can't speak how the quality is nowadays. Super tough lower and works just as good as my Noveske And BCM. It is a lower though
Pivot pin is excellent, no play. Take down pin is excellent, it's old and still no play or slop. And after that son of a bitch detent was broken in, it became easier to get out.
All mags drop free. Never a problem.
Primus Pilum
02-23-16, 12:37
Sure there is. Some people call it supply and demand. Just a different label. Those who are against it, give it a name that engenders suggested immorality. Those who see it as a free market practice, don't attach such inflammatory labels.
To say there is no such thing because you don't agree with someone else's moral stance and prejudice, doesn't change the fact that someone has labeled it. You may not like the label, but it does exist. It may not bug you that people were making 3x to 4x actual price for hard to find items. It did bother some people though.
Negative. It is a synthetic term coined by those ignorant of basic economics and human nature. Morality is 100% subjective and a moving target. Obviously the "label" exists, but it holds no water. So anyone who references it does so through sheer ignorance.
People can bitch whine and moan about whatever they want. Mostly its those who were foolish and Ill prepared, and expected everyone else to cover up their deficiencies. Why should someone who prepared and have some foresight be forced to sell below market value to those who had neither.
If you buy a stock, and the demand shoots up due to increased profitability or forecasting, what happens to the price? Say the dividend increases... Why should someone be forced to sell something they took the capital risk on for the the historical price, when the market price far exceeds it? There is no "price gouging" in the stock market, so why would it exist anywhere else?
Say spikes sells everything they have at their historical prices....They sell out of everything, Store is empty. People stop coming in and doing business because they have no stock. They reinvest the money to replace the stock they sold, but manufactures have massive wait list. So now they have zero cash flow. No imagine if this was a diversified store that sold more than guns (CTD). Lots of people come in to look at guns but end up buying tshits, boots, beef jerky or whatever. No they have no reason to come in the store since there are no guns and ammo, so those secondary sales where the real profit margins are, go away.
Meanwhile the USA is littered with gun stores that went out of business because they sold all their stock, reinvested it and couldn't pay their overhead because there was zero cash flow. You just don't hear about all of them because they didn't have a huge net presence. Places like KAC didn't need to raise their prices because the majority of their business is constant through contracts. BCM did raise their prices but even then, they sold out of everything in minutes when it came in stock.
I'm not even touching on the customer availability aspect as well. How much is a bottle of water worth when you are dying of thirst?
It's a business decision pure and simple. Pure Capitalism and if you want to talk about morality, price fixing is as immoral and unnatural as it comes. Once you through out Risk-Reward there is no incentive for anyone to do anything, as they will never have to worry about the risks. And if you ask me, is a big reason why our modern society is so pathetic and weak.
Nocalsocal
02-23-16, 13:14
Crazy how a simple question of how good a gun is turned into a big gooey mess of capitalism and the free market. Once again the only common complaint was their business practice. It was rather entertaining honestly. To the OP, Spikes puts out an excellent product. Don't look back. If you're in a budget or not, there's nothing wrong with Spikes.
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Plus they have a roll mark that looks like Darth Vader or two dicks.
I hate spiders.
I'm a roll mark sensitive kind of guy. I own LMT and Colt lowers with the exception of one Armalite I built with a Colt LPK.
I can't live with Spikes logos, especially the spider. Just not my style. At. All.
I thought it was just me with the roll mark......... and its on the BCG / top of receiver by CH
I wonder how many people actually look at the roll mark while shooting? To be honest, I wanted the punisher logo but didn't think it would go over well if I had to stop a threat while on duty so I passed and went with the spider.
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You got the dongs!
Hahaha. I got the dongs. Don't think about it until I'm oiling it up. Hahaha
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Crazy how a simple question of how good a gun is turned into a big gooey mess of capitalism and the free market. Once again the only common complaint was their business practice. It was rather entertaining honestly. To the OP, Spikes puts out an excellent product. Don't look back. If you're in a budget or not, there's nothing wrong with Spikes.
Except he did not ask if anything was wrong with Spikes. He observed that now you hear about Colt, DD, etc.
I used to hear good stuff about them. Now, I really dont hear anything at all. Most of what i hear about is BCM, DD, COLT. How does Spikes stack up?
And as stated previously, Spikes is as expensive as better options. And more expensive than similar options.
It's not that they are bad, they just do not justify the premium they charge.
Myself, I'll buy from the companies who have been selected by major militaries for most things.
justin_247
02-24-16, 13:14
Which, again, puts them square in the mid-tier clone part pile. If the best one can say is it's made by AP, and I can (and do) buy AP lowers for $69 right now, how is double that justified for spikes?
At this point I draw the line at companies whose weapons or at least major subsystems are used by major armies. (Colt, DD, LMT, KAC, HK) I'd include FN, Steyr, Walther, etc in the mix if they made civvy source AR's
Especially when you can do so at the same cost in many cases. (KAC / HK excluded)
Spike's is quite frank about where they source their parts...
It's been known for a long time that they source parts from LAR, Mega, AP, DD, FN, Seekins, LW, etc., and they actually advertise this fact with many of them. If they don't, they'll usually let you know if you ask.
It's kind of silly to use this as a criticism. It'd be like criticizing Apple for using parts from Samsung, LG, Intel, Qualcomm, Foxconn, etc. and then say, "oh, it's just a clone part pile."
Vincent317
02-24-16, 13:42
I first started looking at and researching ARs in 2009 when "The Chart" was in play. Spikes was not even included on The Chart for reasons I never knew or understood. But in doing some research on my own it looked to me that Spikes had all the same boxes checked that Colt and BCM had. The complete Spikes AR was also about $200 less than the Colt or BCM at the time so I bought one. In the 8 years I have owned it and after thousands of rounds, it has never had any issues.
I'm surprised people get so uppity about pricing.
This is day one college econ stuff.
Pricing is the result of what the market will bear.
Well, unless you like communism, and prefer the state setting the price, comrades.
Why do people hate capitalism so much?
Why do people hate capitalism so much?
I don't but it would appear there are a number of people who don't understand how business works. FSA in action. It isn't like anyone had a gun to your head to pay for stuff you thought was over priced.
I put a complete Spikes LE upper on my wife' AR. For nearly two years it has worked just fine, no issues to report. I bought it for $599 during a Primary Arms fathers day sale. It does the job and serves as a range toy.
I do not own any Spikes products. The reasons are
1- I can't get over the battling dicks roll mark, or the pirate roll mark.
2- I cannot remember which scare it was, may have even been the first Obama scare in 08, but they gouged their prices up high enough that I said I would never buy anything from them. (Yes I believe in a free market, no I'm not a socialist or communist.) Just like I don't buy from cheaper than dirt or a few other companies for the same reasons or I don't buy used items in the EE listed for over new retail price.
3- TO ME their following has always seemed fan boyish and fuddish.
lawusmc0844
02-25-16, 00:16
I'm surprised people get so uppity about pricing.
This is day one college econ stuff.
Pricing is the result of what the market will bear.
Well, unless you like communism, and prefer the state setting the price, comrades.
Why do people hate capitalism so much?
Thats what I wonder too. I've been reading alot of older threads regarding "price gouging" here and ARFCOM and its actually disgusting that there are gun owners that claim to love freedom and capitalism yet rail against it when prices go up. The ones that say "something needs to be done about this greedy immoral price gouging!" They also believe they're entitled to buy items from private individuals on the EE for a heavily discounted price and will get up in arms if its priced too high for their cheap self-entitled ass. Last I checked people can set whatever price they want on their personal property. Companies like Spikes can and should be able to price their items the highest the market is willing to pay for. A company won't last long if they can't make any profit or maintain inventory because their prices are too low.
I used to hate "price gouging" too before I learned how simple economics works. So I don't hate Spikes for raising prices. I just don't care for them because of their phallic obsession and besides their nitrided gas tubes, their products and marketing don't interest me. However, with CTD, I do say they are greedy douchebags. $20 or even $30 for one PMag is understandable during the panics but near $100 is excessive. I do actually hate them for their flip flopping on gun sales, especially when they cowered to the leftist cunts after Newtown.
I discovered Spikes back in about mid-2009, did a lot of online research (prices, reviews, etc.) and bought one of their midlength rifles. The price, at that time, was about as decent of a value as I could find. The rifle has been fine, although it has probably only about 500 rounds through it. In today's market environment though, I tend to favor PSA blem lowers (when on sale) and complete BCM uppers to slap on top of 'em.
TheNegativeOne
02-26-16, 13:49
I saw a guy pay $2600 for a 6920. I guess.
I saw a guy pay $2600 for a 6920. I guess.
Really? When was this?
I paid $950 2 months ago.
TheNegativeOne
02-26-16, 14:02
Really? When was this?
I paid $950 2 months ago.
2013, its on a nutnfancy vid from then.
2013, its on a nutnfancy vid from then.
Might want to mention that when you posted "$2650" on a thread 3 years later. Just sayin
TheNegativeOne
02-26-16, 16:18
Might want to mention that when you posted "$2650" on a thread 3 years later. Just sayin
I just wanna know. Is that gouging? An item is only worth what someobe will pay for it. I would remember that shit and never shop there again. Much like cheaper than dirt. F#ck them.
Much like cheaper than DIAMONDS. F#ck them.
Sorry, I saw you had a minor spelling error there and I just had to fix it.
Sent while driving 80mph on the freeway
I've picked up the "blem" lowers b/c they were a good price...quality seems good.
Hate their logos, hate the zombie shit, and they don't offer anything better than noveske or kac. No reason to buy their junk.
crazymoose
02-26-16, 22:31
Thats what I wonder too. I've been reading alot of older threads regarding "price gouging" here and ARFCOM and its actually disgusting that there are gun owners that claim to love freedom and capitalism yet rail against it when prices go up. The ones that say "something needs to be done about this greedy immoral price gouging!" They also believe they're entitled to buy items from private individuals on the EE for a heavily discounted price and will get up in arms if its priced too high for their cheap self-entitled ass. Last I checked people can set whatever price they want on their personal property. Companies like Spikes can and should be able to price their items the highest the market is willing to pay for. A company won't last long if they can't make any profit or maintain inventory because their prices are too low.
I used to hate "price gouging" too before I learned how simple economics works. So I don't hate Spikes for raising prices. I just don't care for them because of their phallic obsession and besides their nitrided gas tubes, their products and marketing don't interest me. However, with CTD, I do say they are greedy douchebags. $20 or even $30 for one PMag is understandable during the panics but near $100 is excessive. I do actually hate them for their flip flopping on gun sales, especially when they cowered to the leftist cunts after Newtown.
No one is asking for price controls. Talking shit about a company for its business practices no more harms that company's freedom than negative reactions to speech infringe on someone's first amendment rights. Consumers getting angry and boycotting is part of the market process. Maximization of short-term profit has to be weighed against long term customer loyalty, particularly in a very saturated market of what are, for most purchasers, durable goods.
Bodhisattva05X
02-27-16, 00:29
The ones that say "something needs to be done about this greedy immoral price gouging!"
Companies like Spikes can and should be able to price their items the highest the market is willing to pay for. A company won't last long if they can't make any profit or maintain inventory because their prices are too low.
However, with CTD, I do say they are greedy douchebags. $20 or even $30 for one PMag is understandable during the panics but near $100 is excessive.
I do actually hate them for their flip flopping on gun sales, especially when they cowered to the leftist cunts after Newtown.
I worked in a shop when Newtown happened. It was actually the shop that sold the AR to the mother. Will I agree prices should reflect the supply and demand, but the gouging the owner displayed was sickening. $5000 for SCAR Lights, $2000 to $2500 for bushys and $3000 for Colts was what he raised prices to the day after the shooting. Not to mention $350 for Surefire 60rnd mags. It was sickening. I quit the a few days after the "raid". Once we had accounted for the missing firearms.
Mrgunsngear
02-27-16, 10:36
Since the can has been opened---price gouging is not possible in a market economy and generally has unseen benefits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ojYtKazgQ
Of course---> the consumers have the right to buy from whom they choose at any time---immediately after a crisis and years after said crisis.
Most of the people I know of who have used the term "price gougers" use it as a term of derision, and do not imply there should be price controls, etc.
I'm a free market guy, and that includes writing off vendors who cross a line into what I consider predatory space. But I will support their right to do so even as write them off for future business.
I don't buy from flippers (ever) or when a vendor is asking significantly more than the forward looking average price.
Just like I don't shop at stations who raised gas to $5+ even before the hurricane hit. That's not a "cover my increased cost" approach.
One MLGS changes their pmag price almost weekly based on a panic factor, and it's nearly always above retail even when there is not a scare. I don't even bother to check their stock anymore.
I believe they are using the famous "NA Porsche pricing model" where you raise prices until you see a slight reduction in sales, then hold it there.
Primus Pilum
02-27-16, 15:50
Thats what I wonder too. I've been reading alot of older threads regarding "price gouging" here and ARFCOM and its actually disgusting that there are gun owners that claim to love freedom and capitalism yet rail against it when prices go up. The ones that say "something needs to be done about this greedy immoral price gouging!" They also believe they're entitled to buy items from private individuals on the EE for a heavily discounted price and will get up in arms if its priced too high for their cheap self-entitled ass. Last I checked people can set whatever price they want on their personal property. Companies like Spikes can and should be able to price their items the highest the market is willing to pay for. A company won't last long if they can't make any profit or maintain inventory because their prices are too low.
I used to hate "price gouging" too before I learned how simple economics works. So I don't hate Spikes for raising prices. I just don't care for them because of their phallic obsession and besides their nitrided gas tubes, their products and marketing don't interest me. However, with CTD, I do say they are greedy douchebags. $20 or even $30 for one PMag is understandable during the panics but near $100 is excessive. I do actually hate them for their flip flopping on gun sales, especially when they cowered to the leftist cunts after Newtown.
So you love capitalism but you think a price is excessive? You do realize you 100% contradicted yourself right?
Primus Pilum
02-27-16, 15:58
Most of the people I know of who have used the term "price gougers" use it as a term of derision, and do not imply there should be price controls, etc.
I'm a free market guy, and that includes writing off vendors who cross a line into what I consider predatory space. But I will support their right to do so even as write them off for future business.
I don't buy from flippers (ever) or when a vendor is asking significantly more than the forward looking average price.
Just like I don't shop at stations who raised gas to $5+ even before the hurricane hit. That's not a "cover my increased cost" approach.
One MLGS changes their pmag price almost weekly based on a panic factor, and it's nearly always above retail even when there is not a scare. I don't even bother to check their stock anymore.
I believe they are using the famous "NA Porsche pricing model" where you raise prices until you see a slight reduction in sales, then hold it there.
No your not. You cannot be free market and then think a business transaction between 2 consenting adults is predatory.
Predatory is when the government creates a monopoly, and you are forced to buy goods or services at much inflated rates that would otherwise be cheaper in a free market.
Why should a business person not be able to profit during a disaster (not that toys ans guns are a basic need)? They took the capital risk, they should be able to sell a bottle of water for $500 if they want. If someone is thirsty enough, they will pay. It will also keep a few wealthy people from hording everything, not to mention bring new competition into the market which will lower prices. Personally, I would just shut down and not sell shit before I let someone else dictate what prices I can sell MY property. Let Darwin have em.
So lesson of the day, You can't just say "im free market " or " I believe in capitalism, but", and pretend your not a socialist.
Mountaineer_711
02-27-16, 16:23
My spikes gear has all worked well for me, but as many have mentioned you can get quality products from brands with a better rep for the same price point these days.
If being disgusted by businesses that trade on fear and ignorance makes me a non-supporter of a free market, then so be it. I guess I'm anti-free market. I'm also anti-Wall Street too. I'd like to see more than a few of those assholes rotting in federal prison.
Any vendor is within his rights to sell his product for whatever he sees fit. I'm in my right to remember. That's free market. Right?
I also didn't appreciate the folks who caused the ammo shortage, and subsequent price gouge....uh, increase in ammo prices. Thank you guys so much. I do take solace in the FACT that they paid way too much for way too much ammo. And they are now stuck with thousands of rounds of ammo that they have way too much money in. I guess they are now mad that they weren't able to turn it because we, unfortunately, missed the Apocalypse. Oh well. Maybe TEOTWAWKI will happen soon and they can get their money back. And more. Hey, there's always hoping. Right?
Mrgunsngear
02-28-16, 10:08
Any vendor is within his rights to sell his product for whatever he sees fit. I'm in my right to remember. That's free market. Right?
Indeed
BoringGuy45
02-28-16, 13:14
I think their lower receivers are just fine. A little obnoxious maybe, but so long as they're in spec, who cares if it has a goofy Punisher logo or a Zombie for a role mark? Why is it that when it comes to ARs, we're not allowed to have a sense of humor?
I used to hear good stuff about them. Now, I really dont hear anything at all. Most of what i hear about is BCM, DD, COLT. How does Spikes stack up?
No your not. You cannot be free market and then think a business transaction between 2 consenting adults is predatory.
Predatory is when the government creates a monopoly, and you are forced to buy goods or services at much inflated rates that would otherwise be cheaper in a free market.
Why should a business person not be able to profit during a disaster (not that toys ans guns are a basic need)? They took the capital risk, they should be able to sell a bottle of water for $500 if they want. If someone is thirsty enough, they will pay. It will also keep a few wealthy people from hording everything, not to mention bring new competition into the market which will lower prices. Personally, I would just shut down and not sell shit before I let someone else dictate what prices I can sell MY property. Let Darwin have em.
So lesson of the day, You can't just say "im free market " or " I believe in capitalism, but", and pretend your not a socialist.
pred·a·to·ry adjective- seeking to exploit others for personal gain or profit.
Many other definitions, usually involving taking advantage of a circumstance (exploit) beyond the acceptable norm of business behavior. Typical usage (Cambridge English Dictionary): "Larger companies, which played a predatory role, swooped down to cash in on the new fad."
It's subjective by definition... there is nothing about governments or monopolies in typical business usage of the term predatory, though those situations could very well be predatory in nature.
I've already said the vendor can price at whatever they want. And people can decide to pay what they want. That's free market, sport, despite your mislabeling me as a socialist!
*I* determine what *I* believe to be predatory and act accordingly as a consumer. It's subjective, remember. And as a consumer in a free market, I damn sure vote with my dollar, supporting vendors who did reasonable things and writing off those who did not.
I went from fairly regular purchases (surplus, mostly) from CTD to having them stop sending catalogs, with a detailed explanation of why. CTD absolutely felt the impact of their pricing practices in a measurable way, not just because of my action.
Likewise, I (subjectively) made the decision that what Grant, BCM, one LGS, and others did with their pricing was reasonable, and chose to support them. And (subjectively) felt Spikes, CTD, gun show flippers, etc were not, and made a free market, conscious decision to not support them. Ever.
So lesson of the day back-at-ya, predatory does not mean what you apparently think it does. And if you think I'm a socialist, then you probably don't understand that definition either.
Bought a stripped lower years ago. Went together fine and works. Don't care for the spider on the side. Stuck with it now since i live in a ban state.
Im going to get some flesh and purple colored paint and hilight my rifles "area"
38080
TheNegativeOne
02-29-16, 10:47
38080
Just like that.
ExplorinInTheWoods
02-29-16, 12:48
Lower's are good to go much better tolerances than an anderson. Their CHF barrels are actually made by FN and are solid. Spike's business model is to sell you components for you to build not to seel complete rifles like Colt. They actually have awesome customer service, I was having problems with my rifle ejecting at 12-1 o'clock and some cases getting stuck to the NiB BCG so I emailed them and they shipped me a new bolt free of charge within a few days. That rifle has been running flawlessly now. What spike's doesn't make in house they partner with another company that makes quality stuff such as seekins or FN and put their logo on it.
Just like that.
They offer a ton of other different logo's if you don't like the spider. I personally prefer and have owned the punisher and the spartan logo lowers.
38080
What is that supposed to resemble?
Their lower parts kits are great. I used them in my current build.
What is that supposed to resemble?
That is a picture of the twin penises that people reference with regard to Spike's logo.
Eurodriver
03-11-16, 04:43
They offer a ton of other different logo's if you don't like the spider. I personally prefer and have owned the punisher and the spartan logo lowers.
Why would I want a punisher or Spartan lower??
Why would I want a punisher or Spartan lower??
he was just saying that is what he personally prefers. they have, or had, some stealth lowers without rollmarks
Why would I want a punisher or Spartan lower??
To look cool for all the BROS man... You need to be able to have the coolest looking gun out there.
They'll sell you this one for only triple the price of a normal in spec lower:
http://sngtactical.com/images/thejack.jpg
Eurodriver
03-11-16, 07:10
Nice try. That isn't real.
http://www.primaryarms.com/spikes-tactical-jack-lower-stripped-billet-lower-receiver/p/kt-stlb520/
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Nice try. That isn't real.
Oh it's real... And people pay for them...
Eurodriver
03-11-16, 07:32
https://cdn1.thehunt.com/app/public/system/note_images/1318956/original/80b483620b5397daf0f53cfc40c9594d.png
Boba Fett v2
03-11-16, 08:41
Nice try. That isn't real.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/11/a1d19b04be520fdef0a94d3230f3fe5e.jpg
And this assclown endorses it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrW4_rW299M
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Why would I want a punisher or Spartan lower??
Because you are either a "punisher" or a "spartan"! Duh!
C4
The US economy is a consumption based system. We (Americans) typically believe that the more we can get of something (guns, ammo, gadgets, food, cars, etc), the better off we are. So Quantity wins out over Quality. This is why companies that build substandard to "ok" firearms, ammo, optics and accessories do well. What I challenge people to do is buy QUALITY over Quantity.
C4
Boba Fett v2
03-11-16, 09:13
The US economy is a consumption based system. We (Americans) typically believe that the more we can get of something (guns, ammo, gadgets, food, cars, etc), the better off we are. So Quantity wins out over Quality. This is why companies that build substandard to "ok" firearms, ammo, optics and accessories do well. What I challenge people to do is buy QUALITY over Quantity.
C4
I do. And man, does it get expensive.
And it goes for most things my wife and I invest in these days. It took a little while for her to come around, but I finally convinced my wife that the best thing to do is buy quality the first time and ensure the product has a good warranty. She finally figured it out when all the cheap "just as good as" crap of hers kept breaking and decided it was costing her more to replace it than it would to just buy good quality the first time out. The reality is most people don't make a living as a shooter, so their borderline or semi-decent AR will suffice for their use, and offers them a reason to proudly display their "Molon Labe" "Don't Tread on Me" "Why do I need an AR? Because F**k You that's why!" decals on the back of their pick-up (that never goes off road).
I do. And man, does it get expensive.
And it goes for most things my wife and I invest in these days. It took a little while for her to come around, but I finally convinced my wife that the best thing to do is buy quality the first time and ensure the product has a good warranty. She finally figured it out when all the cheap "just as good as" crap of hers kept breaking and decided it was costing her more to replace it than it would to just buy good quality the first time out. The reality is most people don't make a living as a shooter, so their borderline or semi-decent AR will suffice for their use, and offers them a reason to proudly display their "Molon Labe" "Don't Tread on Me" "Why do I need an AR? Because F**k You that's why!" decals on the back of their pick-up (that never goes off road).
True. We have a retail store in the heart of a rural county. The jacked up guns we see roll in here (or they ask us to order for them) is beyond comical. I have come to realize that the general shooting public is poorly informed about what constitutes a quality firearm, ammo, accesory or optic.
C4
crusader377
03-11-16, 09:30
I think Spikes makes a good rifle and the vast majority their owners would be well served with one but in this era of $800-$850 Colts I see very little reason to buy one. To me, I think Spikes is an equivalent to the Charles Daly M4LE which I own. When I bought mine in 2008 the CD M4LE was an outstanding value for $900 considering it was a near Colt 6920 clone for nearly $400 less than the $1250-$1300 that Colt were selling for in the day and it was considerably better than the mass market Bushmasters, Stags, etc... Even though my rifle has been flawless, it was still a somewhat of a compromise choice because I wasn't willing to spend $1300 on a Colt. Nowadays with Colts running in the low $800 range their is very little reason for someone who wants a basic high quality AR not to buy a Colt.
I think Spikes makes a good rifle and the vast majority their owners would be well served with one but in this era of $800-$850 Colts I see very little reason to buy one. To me, I think Spikes is an equivalent to the Charles Daly M4LE which I own. When I bought mine in 2008 the CD M4LE was an outstanding value for $900 considering it was a near Colt 6920 clone for nearly $400 less than the $1250-$1300 that Colt were selling for in the day and it was considerably better than the mass market Bushmasters, Stags, etc... Even though my rifle has been flawless, it was still a somewhat of a compromise choice because I wasn't willing to spend $1300 on a Colt. Nowadays with Colts running in the low $800 range their is very little reason for someone who wants a basic high quality AR not to buy a Colt.
I am not sure what the definition of "good rifle" is. I would not classify them as that. With that said, you are right on the money about Colt. There is ZERO reason to buy anything other than a Colt if you have a budget of under $900.
C4
556BlackRifle
03-11-16, 09:41
Nice try. That isn't real.
I've seen pics of a gold teeth version of that abomination. You know what they say about a fool and his money? They were lucky to get together in the first place......
Like the face of Lil Wayne? Ill buy that as long as its marked safe, fire, truffle butter.
crusader377
03-11-16, 10:14
I am not sure what the definition of "good rifle" is. I would not classify them as that. With that said, you are right on the money about Colt. There is ZERO reason to buy anything other than a Colt if you have a budget of under $900.
C4
I was saying it was a good rifle because spec wise it appears very similar to my first civilian M4 which was the Charles Daly that I mentioned in that it appears pretty close to the publically available M4 TDP regarding barrel construction, twist rate, bolt material, etc... My CD M4LE has been a great rifle, highly accurate, which I have put many thousands of rounds through it without any problems and it will eat any ammo that I put in it. Would you think the Spikes would have similar performance or do you think my CD is a better carbine?
That is a picture of the twin penises that people reference with regard to Spike's logo.
Sword fight, helmet bumpers, banana tree, etc...
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I was saying it was a good rifle because spec wise it appears very similar to my first civilian M4 which was the Charles Daly that I mentioned in that it appears pretty close to the publically available M4 TDP regarding barrel construction, twist rate, bolt material, etc... My CD M4LE has been a great rifle, highly accurate, which I have put many thousands of rounds through it without any problems and it will eat any ammo that I put in it. Would you think the Spikes would have similar performance or do you think my CD is a better carbine?
Appears and "is" are not the same. We have paid to have some of their barrels destructive tested.
It is somewhat easy to buy parts that follow the TDP. What matters more is the QC that goes into testing each and every part. Companies like Colt, BCM, etc have thousands and thousands of dollar tied up in go/no go gauges to validate that the part matches the TDP. Honestly speaking, it is better to buy a part that does NOT meet the material spec (like 6061 VS 7075), but is dimensionally correct.
I have seen the worst AR's made (Chinese parts assembled by a "hobbyist" armorer) that will run. This is more of a testament to the design of the AR platform than anything else.
C4
Mrgunsngear
03-11-16, 12:17
Like the face of Lil Wayne? Ill buy that as long as its marked safe, fire, truffle butter.
Talkin' filets with the truffle butter??? You know!
I''m in.
TheNegativeOne
03-11-16, 19:23
To look cool for all the BROS man... You need to be able to have the coolest looking gun out there.
They'll sell you this one for only triple the price of a normal in spec lower:
http://sngtactical.com/images/thejack.jpg
Ok thats pretty sweet.
Your sarcasm font doesn't look right...
TheNegativeOne
03-11-16, 21:23
Your sarcasm font doesn't look right...
Im not being sarcastic. I like it. I have skull tattoos and stuff like that. I have my hardcore use rifles should i really need to use them. My BCM recce, BCM M4 and most important, Arsenal 104fr 5.45x39. For barrier penetration Saiga .308
Regarding price gouging, you are going to have to make up your own mind about whether you want to buy from Spikes.
There is a thread started on arfcom (I know I'll get shit for this but calm yourself down) by a range owner out in Vegas who bought PSA uppers and one of his 11.5 uppers went approximately 39k rounds in 6 months before the bolt broke (remember that Filthy 14 is on it's second bolt and "only" has ~23k rounds through that bolt). This particular upper had some wear issues such as broken extractors and loosening of gas keys, but the point is that this "inferior" PSA upper went 39k before the bolt died and the range owner claims his experience is that PSA is on par with his other uppers: DD and LMT, two revered brands on this site.
Now my question is if the less expensive PSA's are considered on par with DD and LMT, are Spike's really so inferior? Granted, unless someone actually puts the rounds through and records maintenance diligently we won't have a intelligent answer. And I would go so far as to say I can still find recent reviews of people having to send their products back to Spikes for issues, whereas the same with a company such as BCM is harder to find. As Grant says, this is a QC/QA issue, but I still wonder how representative it actually is of Spikes, because as I've said, we don't really know. Side note, the same guy who wrote about his experience with PSA has also said that his Colt rifles have gone over 20k rounds before ANY (and I mean ANY) issues arose. I take this to mean that Colt still vastly outperforms every other manufacturer out there in terms of a durable product.
I have followed the Spike's saga a bit as I find it fascinating. Case in point I found a couple of AAR posted by EAG (or Pat Rogers, I believe occasionally someone other than Pat will post on classes) on lightfighter.net, one where a Spike's rifle was problematic and one where a Spike's rifle ran well. As Pat has said before, these are samples of one and may not be representative of a company as a whole.
At the end of the day, I can only rely on what I hope is non biased, honest information by well meaning people, as I certainly can't afford to shoot as much as I'd like. Grant is respected here and feels that Spike's is not a very good rifle (for duty purposes I assume) but brands he feels aren't at the top level have had some impressive performance elsewhere, as stated by Ron of Battlefield Las Vegas (look on arfcom for his ar15 durability reports). Pat Rogers also feels Spike's isn't very good, however reading through his AAR's of classes, I wonder how many rifles he has had an opportunity to see of Spike's. Both these well respected men recommend BCM for their consistent quality, and their opinions should be respected.
Regarding price gouging, you are going to have to make up your own mind about whether you want to buy from Spikes.
There is a thread started on arfcom (I know I'll get shit for this but calm yourself down) by a range owner out in Vegas who bought PSA uppers and one of his 11.5 uppers went approximately 39k rounds in 6 months before the bolt broke (remember that Filthy 14 is on it's second bolt and "only" has ~23k rounds through that bolt). This particular upper had some wear issues such as broken extractors and loosening of gas keys, but the point is that this "inferior" PSA upper went 39k before the bolt died and the range owner claims his experience is that PSA is on par with his other uppers: DD and LMT, two revered brands on this site.
Now my question is if the less expensive PSA's are considered on par with DD and LMT, are Spike's really so inferior? Granted, unless someone actually puts the rounds through and records maintenance diligently we won't have a intelligent answer. And I would go so far as to say I can still find recent reviews of people having to send their products back to Spikes for issues, whereas the same with a company such as BCM is harder to find. As Grant says, this is a QC/QA issue, but I still wonder how representative it actually is of Spikes, because as I've said, we don't really know. Side note, the same guy who wrote about his experience with PSA has also said that his Colt rifles have gone over 20k rounds before ANY (and I mean ANY) issues arose. I take this to mean that Colt still vastly outperforms every other manufacturer out there in terms of a durable product.
I have followed the Spike's saga a bit as I find it fascinating. Case in point I found a couple of AAR posted by EAG (or Pat Rogers, I believe occasionally someone other than Pat will post on classes) on lightfighter.net, one where a Spike's rifle was problematic and one where a Spike's rifle ran well. As Pat has said before, these are samples of one and may not be representative of a company as a whole.
At the end of the day, I can only rely on what I hope is non biased, honest information by well meaning people, as I certainly can't afford to shoot as much as I'd like. Grant is respected here and feels that Spike's is not a very good rifle (for duty purposes I assume) but brands he feels aren't at the top level have had some impressive performance elsewhere, as stated by Ron of Battlefield Las Vegas (look on arfcom for his ar15 durability reports). Pat Rogers also feels Spike's isn't very good, however reading through his AAR's of classes, I wonder how many rifles he has had an opportunity to see of Spike's. Both these well respected men recommend BCM for their consistent quality, and their opinions should be respected.
filthy 14 was ran at carbine courses and was cleaned only once, the PSA uppers are ran on a square indoor range, and are subject to a cleaning schedule
True, but the point wasn't about the cleaning schedule but that the PSA uppers ran a considerable amount before bolts broke. And at 39k rounds, I believe more rounds were shot in a far shorter period of time than Filthy 14 was. Performing admirably, I might add.
True, but the point wasn't about the cleaning schedule but that the PSA uppers ran a considerable amount before bolts broke. And at 39k rounds, I believe more rounds were shot in a far shorter period of time than Filthy 14 was. Performing admirably, I might add.
You seem to be missing the point that the PSA uppers are in a controlled environment, and are far better cared for than the BCM upper
Firing a bunch of rounds (albeit in a short period of time) is far less abusive than shooting tens of thousands of rounds, but never cleaning it.
You are trying to comment on the quality of the PSA, even though your sources are vastly different
I think this is where you and me have a difference of opinion, I would argue that in the normal operation of a firearm, shooting it would create the most stress on a gun. And shooting it at a rapid pace would be even worse. The other guy (Ron) on another arfcom thread was talking about how the guns get thrown around or dropped regularly (this particular thread he was trying to make points about optics durability). I honestly can't imagine dropping a gun in an indoor range is all that different from dropping it at a gun class. So unless somebody is using an AR for something ridiculous (as a sledgehammer) the only real difference that you mentioned (and that I agree with) is that the cleaning schedule is a lot more regular for the PSA's than the BCMs.
I think this is where you and me have a difference of opinion, I would argue that in the normal operation of a firearm, shooting it would create the most stress on a gun. And shooting it at a rapid pace would be even worse. The other guy (Ron) on another arfcom thread was talking about how the guns get thrown around or dropped regularly (this particular thread he was trying to make points about optics durability). I honestly can't imagine dropping a gun in an indoor range is all that different from dropping it at a gun class. So unless somebody is using an AR for something ridiculous (as a sledgehammer) the only real difference that you mentioned (and that I agree with) is that the cleaning schedule is a lot more regular for the PSA's than the BCMs.
Have you ever been to an indoor range? I have, and i can tell you it is much cleaner than an outdoor range
You drop your gun outside, it falls into dirt, sand, mud, etc
You drop it inside, and you might bend your FSB if you're unlucky.
Why are you trying to argue that a gun that has a routine cleaning schedule is under more stress than one that has only been cleaned once, and operates in much worse conditions? surely you can see that its not a fair comparison.
I guess I just don't feel that when you are shooting thousands of rounds a little bit of dirt is really going to matter. I mean, it's not like someone is pouring handfuls of dirt into the chamber before chambering a round. I would think that the considerable pressure from each round would do more to wear on a gun than dirt. I also think that a gun built to spec is going to have more of an impact on its durability that the presence of dirt. I don't know if you have actually had the opportunity to read the thread on arfcom, but there is a wealth of information that Ron gives, and it is an eye opener. It really makes one wonder if certain brands are worth the price tag in today's market. It seems that QA/QC is up all around. Pat Rogers states that companies like BCM are good in that he doesn't have to waste time investigating weapons malfunctions when that time could be better spent on training. Ron of Battlefield Las Vegas says something very similar of the brands he buys: If a weapon malfunctions that detracts from the experience of shooting his weapons, so he buys guns he feels are worth it. It just so happens that his experience with PSA is comparable with DD and LMT, two well respected manufacturers. And given the round count, it is arguable that PSA seemingly compares with BCM. Both Pat and Ron have seen several examples of their favorite companies guns, and both give their recommendations. No, Ron doesn't shoot outside with dirt like Pat does, but he has stated that in 6 months time a 11.5 inch PSA shot 39k rounds, when Pat took about a year (Late '08 to November '09) to get Filthy 14 to ~25k rounds. Both are as Pat likes to say "a sample of one", however they both have as I stated above "seen several examples of both companies guns" and they both have given what I hope and believe is honest testimony about their experiences. Yes, if you read Ron's thread the PSA's had more malfunctions but given the round count in the period of time is it really that bad? I have to be honest, I don't feel it is and I would imagine if you put a sample from each company it is very possible you would get results that are similar. Now, as to how all this relates to Spike's as I've said there seems to be improved QC all around, and that price points are somewhat comparable. Yes, I realize there have been shady dealings with Spike's in the past that call into question their reputation, but is that honestly representative of the product they put out today? Maybe they do indeed put out a rifle that follows the "specs" today. Maybe they don't. But you don't need to feel upset about the BCM/PSA comparison, I'm sure both will do their job. I will try to find the thread on arfcom for you and post the link, I think you would enjoy it. It's very informative.
Here you go.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html&page=1
And according to this, Colt is considerably better than anything else out there. So, if it came down to it, if it's not Colt it's crap.
I guess I just don't feel that when you are shooting thousands of rounds a little bit of dirt is really going to matter. I mean, it's not like someone is pouring handfuls of dirt into the chamber before chambering a round. I would think that the considerable pressure from each round would do more to wear on a gun than dirt. I also think that a gun built to spec is going to have more of an impact on its durability that the presence of dirt. I don't know if you have actually had the opportunity to read the thread on arfcom, but there is a wealth of information that Ron gives, and it is an eye opener. It really makes one wonder if certain brands are worth the price tag in today's market. It seems that QA/QC is up all around. Pat Rogers states that companies like BCM are good in that he doesn't have to waste time investigating weapons malfunctions when that time could be better spent on training. Ron of Battlefield Las Vegas says something very similar of the brands he buys: If a weapon malfunctions that detracts from the experience of shooting his weapons, so he buys guns he feels are worth it. It just so happens that his experience with PSA is comparable with DD and LMT, two well respected manufacturers. And given the round count, it is arguable that PSA seemingly compares with BCM. Both Pat and Ron have seen several examples of their favorite companies guns, and both give their recommendations. No, Ron doesn't shoot outside with dirt like Pat does, but he has stated that in 6 months time a 11.5 inch PSA shot 39k rounds, when Pat took about a year (Late '08 to November '09) to get Filthy 14 to ~25k rounds. Both are as Pat likes to say "a sample of one", however they both have as I stated above "seen several examples of both companies guns" and they both have given what I hope and believe is honest testimony about their experiences. Yes, if you read Ron's thread the PSA's had more malfunctions but given the round count in the period of time is it really that bad? I have to be honest, I don't feel it is and I would imagine if you put a sample from each company it is very possible you would get results that are similar. Now, as to how all this relates to Spike's as I've said there seems to be improved QC all around, and that price points are somewhat comparable. Yes, I realize there have been shady dealings with Spike's in the past that call into question their reputation, but is that honestly representative of the product they put out today? Maybe they do indeed put out a rifle that follows the "specs" today. Maybe they don't. But you don't need to feel upset about the BCM/PSA comparison, I'm sure both will do their job. I will try to find the thread on arfcom for you and post the link, I think you would enjoy it. It's very informative.
I have already read it, in fact, if you look close enough, you will see my username in that very thread
You don't seem to understand the difference between a ton of carbine courses and a rental range, and that one is more demanding than the other.
I'll leave it at that.
I have already read it, in fact, if you look close enough, you will see my username in that very thread
You don't seem to understand the difference between a ton of carbine courses and a rental range, and that one is more demanding than the other.
I'll leave it at that.
Well, like I said I my original reply to this thread, unless someone actually takes the time to put the rounds through similar weapons from each manufacturer it is kind of a moot point, though I find testimony given interesting. Although if anyone has such experience please chime in. I have no experience of my own (don't have the budget) to shoot that many rounds so I have to rely on people like Pat and Ron to share their experiences. Please don't take offense to this, but I don't know who you are. I don't know if you are a professional, or an enthusiast. I don't know your experiences. I am aware of Pat Rogers and Ron, and both people I can verify to a small extent. That said, good convo.
On a related note, check this out, dude puts many round through this Spike's Tactical rifle (or upper, not sure which) and it seems to perform pretty damn good.
http://youtu.be/S6cwh4IxXSc
Well, like I said I my original reply to this thread, unless someone actually takes the time to put the rounds through similar weapons from each manufacturer it is kind of a moot point, though I find testimony given interesting. Although if anyone has such experience please chime in. I have no experience of my own (don't have the budget) to shoot that many rounds so I have to rely on people like Pat and Ron to share their experiences. Please don't take offense to this, but I don't know who you are. I don't know if you are a professional, or an enthusiast. I don't know your experiences. I am aware of Pat Rogers and Ron, and both people I can verify to a small extent. That said, good convo.
On a related note, check this out, dude puts many round through this Spike's Tactical rifle (or upper, not sure which) and it seems to perform pretty damn good.
http://youtu.be/S6cwh4IxXSc
Why does it matter who i am? I am not the one making an "observation" (or whatever you want to call it) based on two tests that have nothing in common
Take a break from writing war and peace, and read the thread, you will find only 2 replies from me before our conversation, one of which is a summary of my experience with spikes tactical, and the other is just an off topic remark to another member
Dude, if you are going to make statements like "tons of classes aren't the same as rentals" you are correct but then please back up your statement with something a little more substantial. If you are talking volume of rounds, then yes, 500 rounds is more than 250 and when shot in a short amount of time you may see issues with an inferior weapon as that weapon heats up, or a decreased life span. But if you are going to say being outside is rougher on a gun, well then how? Dirt? I think Pat Roger's Filthy 14 experiment shows that as long as you have a little lube, dirt is somewhat mitigated as a jamming substance. And correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Pat said Filthy 14 hasn't had as much maintenance (extractor spring replacement and whatnot) as normal guns despite the fact that it is filthy? And yes, I have a hard time believing that when chamber pressures from a 5.56 round exceeds thousands of psi, that the presence of dirt is a significant effector on the life of any part in a rifle. I mention your experiences because for all I know you haven't taken any classes. I haven't either since my time in the military, but I can't recall anything that leads me to believe that anything has a huge effect on the life of a rifle other than volume of fire. I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt if you'd like to share your experiences, but when you say "what does it matter who I am?" it doesn't cut the mustard. I can say I'm Paul Buffoni of BCM, but if I don't have something to back it up, I'm not going to go and cry "what does it matter if I don't have proof?". I bring up "my observations" as you put it, because I doubt anywhere here has the budget to shoot as many rounds as Pat or Ron have seen through their experiences, and that such info should be taken into consideration .
Their lowers are just as inexpensive as any if you're throwing a rifle together. I am putting a Calico Jack together on a iron sighted carbine build. It looks decent. The rifle isn't what I would call a supreme build anyhow.
After a page and a half of... Well, something.
I agree with Jpoe, if I was shopping, their prices are what you would expect, in regards to it being effective, or to "spec", I have no experience there.
I do truly like their custom appearances, though I would never put one of their customs on a HD/Duty rifle (even if I had confidence enough in operating with them) to avoid any legal implications (if any) that may be able to get slapped on.
Dude, if you are going to make statements like "tons of classes aren't the same as rentals" you are correct but then please back up your statement with something a little more substantial. If you are talking volume of rounds, then yes, 500 rounds is more than 250 and when shot in a short amount of time you may see issues with an inferior weapon as that weapon heats up, or a decreased life span. But if you are going to say being outside is rougher on a gun, well then how? Dirt? I think Pat Roger's Filthy 14 experiment shows that as long as you have a little lube, dirt is somewhat mitigated as a jamming substance. And correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Pat said Filthy 14 hasn't had as much maintenance (extractor spring replacement and whatnot) as normal guns despite the fact that it is filthy? And yes, I have a hard time believing that when chamber pressures from a 5.56 round exceeds thousands of psi, that the presence of dirt is a significant effector on the life of any part in a rifle. I mention your experiences because for all I know you haven't taken any classes. I haven't either since my time in the military, but I can't recall anything that leads me to believe that anything has a huge effect on the life of a rifle other than volume of fire. I'd have given you the benefit of the doubt if you'd like to share your experiences, but when you say "what does it matter who I am?" it doesn't cut the mustard. I can say I'm Paul Buffoni of BCM, but if I don't have something to back it up, I'm not going to go and cry "what does it matter if I don't have proof?". I bring up "my observations" as you put it, because I doubt anywhere here has the budget to shoot as many rounds as Pat or Ron have seen through their experiences, and that such info should be taken into consideration .
what the hell is your issue, i am not the one who is making claims, or trying to compare two different things!
what is there to back up? that maybe a rifle that has a strict cleaning regimen isn't very comparable to one that doesn't have a cleaning schedule at all?
but here you want proof?
Caveat. As we are not carrying these guns for real, we spend little time doing any preventive maintenance. We know that a properly maintained AR will function well. Our purpose here is to see how well the guns will function when left dirty but well lubed. I don’t suggest that you try this at home, especially if you are carrying these guns professionally.
https://www.slip2000.com/blog/s-w-a-t-magazine-filthy-14/
We have maintenance schedules for each weapon and if an M4 (or any other weapon for that matter) gets overlooked, it has issues. Each weapon system has time frame for cleaning from the experiences we see each day. Uzi's can go on for awhile but MP5-SD's and other suppressed weapons need cleaning VERY often.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html&page=1#i6898884
- I believe the armorers clean the AR's every 5-7 days.. sooner if needed and if business is good. After every cleaning, the armorers run twenty-five rounds down range and they check to make sure the rounds group somewhat close and they check for good ejection
https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html&page=10#i6905970
now, do you think we can stop comparing two unlike things?
i haven't said ANYTHING that requires proof, i have not drawn a SINGLE comparison between brands, nor have i said a certain brand is bad or good, all i have said was that spikes tactical lowers and triggers are decent products.
it doesn't take an einstein to figure out that a range rental and a carbine course are two different things, thats why you wont find many "range reports" here https://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?88-MISC-Training-Course-Announcements-amp-AAR-s
now its your turn, where does pat say that "Filthy 14 hasn't had as much maintenance"? you are asking, so you seem to be unsure
and this little gem " I bring up "my observations" as you put it, because I doubt anywhere here has the budget to shoot as many rounds as Pat or Ron have seen through their experiences, and that such info should be taken into consideration." the fact that the two tests have WILDLY different parameters should be taken into account before the end results are.
I'm done, so dont waste your time replying.
Alliance96
04-19-16, 17:31
In my neck of the woods, a complete Spikes rifle can be had for $950, I wouldn't even know where to look to find a BCM or LMT in that ballpark as mentioned earlier in the thread.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STR5035MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.56%2f.223+16%22+Midlength+Rifle+(No+Magazine)&groupid=5615
When in stock at AIM Surplus, this is price all day long.
DELETE
Stuttering finger, Dbl Entry
titsonritz
04-19-16, 22:45
Why would I want a punisher or Spartan lower??
Actually, I want a Spartan lower for a build with a Blowndeadline Spartan Worn finish. I was looking at Spikes and Range Tool. So far I like the shield and sword selector markings on the Spikes and am leaning that way.
Does anyone know of another maker beside Spikes or Range Tool? (Battle Arms is also out, I'm using that one for a different build)
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1STR5035MLS&name=Spikes+Tactical+5.56%2f.223+16%22+Midlength+Rifle+(No+Magazine)&groupid=5615
When in stock at AIM Surplus, this is price all day long.
Primary Arms has complete Spikes uppers (with charging handle & BCG) on sale for $479 right now.
TacticalSledgehammer
04-20-16, 10:43
I was set on a BCM lower to match my upper for value reasons only. I finally ditched that idea and picked up their crusader lower and assembled it using a spikes parts kit and BCM RE, spring, and buffer. I assembled it myself, staked the castle nut, and saved myself some money. I don't have a problem with Spikes parts. I feel that they are gtg, it's some of their silly marketing towards zombies, etc that I'm not so crazy about.
I like their spartan, punisher, and crusader lower (especially since it has a trigger guard)
Just pick whatever you like, it's your money.
As has been mentioned, there just isn't a compelling enough reason to go with a Spikes over a BCM/Colt/DD/Sionics etc. Technically speaking, why? Secondarily, Spikes' marketing/aesthetic is off-putting. For multiple reasons, I wouldn't own a crusader or a punisher or whatever else they got going on over there. but that's just me.
As has been mentioned, there just isn't a compelling enough reason to go with a Spikes over a BCM/Colt/DD/Sionics etc. Technically speaking, why? Secondarily, Spikes' marketing/aesthetic is off-putting. For multiple reasons, I wouldn't own a crusader or a punisher or whatever else they got going on over there. but that's just me.
How exactly is Sionics proven over Spikes?
How exactly is Sionics proven over Spikes?
Because there was no personal beef with the owner like there was with Spike's. Plus IG gave Sionics his blessing once he began offering his Armorer's course thru them. I do remember though that Sionics was unproven here before then. Everything is unproven here till key people give their approval...whether by paid endorsement or not.
On the whole you'll find the biggest issues with Spike's are the marketing, Spiders, and free market business practices....during a time when most of the industry took part in the same. They even went so far as to post their testing and specs but that info was taken down here and considered not factual.....even though they're the only company that's been called to the carpet in that fashion.
I've built and sold many a Spike's rifle and seen minimal issues thru high round counts with them...no more than I've seen from any other top tier brands. Im not making them out to be the best but also not making like the other top tier stuff is light years better. I've watched Spike's grow from a company that specialized in 22lr ARs and also sold ceneterfires assembled from various parts to a company that became large enough to began having quality parts produced to their own specs for quality rifles. The early Spike's ceneterfire AR'S are not the same as the stuff they started producing to proper specs around 2010 or so. It's really not that hard to do if we're all honest about it. And getting the proper specs isn't hard either seeing as they're not some secret. As long as you have the cash to buy the best stuff from the many common suppliers that most all companies use you can build a solid rifle. Heck I remember when Rainier only sold accessories but look at them having their own stuff produced now....and it's good stuff!
I'm honestly amazed this thread is still alive and kicking.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
SniperOverwatch
04-21-16, 18:29
I have a Spikes lower. Works great. I have no problem at all with the company and would consider them up with BCM and Colt for quality.
Sometimes it's possible to read too much internet. ;)
titsonritz
04-21-16, 19:29
As has been mentioned, there just isn't a compelling enough reason to go with a Spikes over a BCM/Colt/DD/Sionics etc. Technically speaking, why? Secondarily, Spikes' marketing/aesthetic is off-putting. For multiple reasons, I wouldn't own a crusader or a punisher or whatever else they got going on over there. but that's just me.
As far as rifles go, yes, but one thing I would say Spikes has over the others is the availability of striped lowers.
As far as rifles go, yes, but one thing I would say Spikes has over the others is the availability of striped lowers.
I bought some stripped lowers in '08 and just started to build with one of them. The quality of the ones I picked up are great. I think I picked them up at a local gun show for next to nothing.
I have tried to place orders for some parts in the past and had to cancel as they never shipped. Just buy BCM now.
titsonritz
04-21-16, 22:13
I bought some stripped lowers in '08 and just started to build with one of them. The quality of the ones I picked up are great. I think I picked them up at a local gun show for next to nothing.
I have tried to place orders for some parts in the past and had to cancel as they never shipped. Just buy BCM now.
Again, there are no BCM stripped lowers, complete lowers sure. Primary Arms (and several others) have Spikes in stock, I wouldn't worry I them never shipping.
After a page and a half of... Well, something.
I agree with Jpoe, if I was shopping, their prices are what you would expect, in regards to it being effective, or to "spec", I have no experience there.
I do truly like their custom appearances, though I would never put one of their customs on a HD/Duty rifle (even if I had confidence enough in operating with them) to avoid any legal implications (if any) that may be able to get slapped on.
Yeah... flipping from parlay to plunder in a defensive situation might flip the jury lol
I have a Spikes lower. Works great. I have no problem at all with the company and would consider them up with BCM and Colt for quality.
Sometimes it's possible to read too much internet. ;)
Just no. Spikes is not even on the same planet as BCM and Colt.
C4
Just no. Spikes is not even on the same planet as BCM and Colt.
C4
Are we talking rifle or stripped lower? Some folks have had issues with junk lowers. The worst I have seen was an Olympic forged. Practically spray painted. But the RRA, Colt, DD, spikes, Bushmaster, dpms, psalm lowers that I have handled looked nearly identical as far as quality. That I could visually notice. Hell the Andersons look good too.
Are we talking rifle or stripped lower? Some folks have had issues with junk lowers. The worst I have seen was an Olympic forged. Practically spray painted. But the RRA, Colt, DD, spikes, Bushmaster, dpms, psalm lowers that I have handled looked nearly identical as far as quality. That I could visually notice. Hell the Andersons look good too.
Yes. Both Colt and BCM spend more money on QC (to ensure everything is in spec according to the TDP) than most companies spend on their firearms!
C4
Yes. Both Colt and BCM spend more money on QC (to ensure everything is in spec according to the TDP) than most companies spend on their firearms!
C4
I won't argue with that. I have a bcm stripped upper and several small parts from them. No major parts (yet!) But on the small stuff I needed, why not? They want the same that everyone else does! Plus, they sent me some stickers so.....yep... swag!
Swag!
Ah yes...swag. The little trinkets and whatnot to allay the fact that corners were cut on production, that they'd rather let some guy give them free advertising than spend money on tooling, and that cool macho baubles will make you feel like "family" if/when you need to kick something back. So one can go online and beam about how "they took care of me" after someone had to send back a rifle assembled poorly.
Thats....bribery.
I'm sorry but dimensions and specs mean things. Spikes, DPMS, nor do most AR manufacturers lately seem to capisce that.
Some call it "snobbery", but there is a reason the same names pop up for AR parts. I'd sooner save and get something correct than get something mediocre.
Because there was no personal beef with the owner like there was with Spike's. Plus IG gave Sionics his blessing once he began offering his Armorer's course thru them. I do remember though that Sionics was unproven here before then. Everything is unproven here till key people give their approval...whether by paid endorsement or not.
On the whole you'll find the biggest issues with Spike's are the marketing, Spiders, and free market business practices....during a time when most of the industry took part in the same. They even went so far as to post their testing and specs but that info was taken down here and considered not factual.....even though they're the only company that's been called to the carpet in that fashion.
I've built and sold many a Spike's rifle and seen minimal issues thru high round counts with them...no more than I've seen from any other top tier brands. Im not making them out to be the best but also not making like the other top tier stuff is light years better. I've watched Spike's grow from a company that specialized in 22lr ARs and also sold ceneterfires assembled from various parts to a company that became large enough to began having quality parts produced to their own specs for quality rifles. The early Spike's ceneterfire AR'S are not the same as the stuff they started producing to proper specs around 2010 or so. It's really not that hard to do if we're all honest about it. And getting the proper specs isn't hard either seeing as they're not some secret. As long as you have the cash to buy the best stuff from the many common suppliers that most all companies use you can build a solid rifle. Heck I remember when Rainier only sold accessories but look at them having their own stuff produced now....and it's good stuff!
I'm honestly amazed this thread is still alive and kicking.
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I couldn't agree more. The 2xSpike's rifles that I owned had much better machining especially on their lowers than the Colt 6450 and 6940 I own. I no longer own any Spike's equipment but wouldn't hesitate to own again in the future. Their logo though does still haunt me after the dueling phalluses were revealed to me:eek:
Swag!
Ah yes...swag. The little trinkets and whatnot to allay the fact that corners were cut on production, that they'd rather let some guy give them free advertising than spend money on tooling, and that cool macho baubles will make you feel like "family" if/when you need to kick something back. So one can go online and beam about how "they took care of me" after someone had to send back a rifle assembled poorly.
Thats....bribery.
I'm sorry but dimensions and specs mean things. Spikes, DPMS, nor do most AR manufacturers lately seem to capisce that.
Some call it "snobbery", but there is a reason the same names pop up for AR parts. I'd sooner save and get something correct than get something mediocre.
If it's bribery, BCM is guilty. They are the ones I bought from that sent me stickers... several times! What will they send when I finally buy a rifle!
Yes. Both Colt and BCM spend more money on QC (to ensure everything is in spec according to the TDP) than most companies spend on their firearms!
C4
People often discount this. QC...NDT specifically, is expensive. It is also considered "non value-added cost. Which is why most lower tier manufacturers only perform it in batches, if at all.
Non destructive testing of AR parts is NVA when you have processes locked down to a near perfect, 6s level (3 parts per million I think?), Which is ideal, but also difficult to achieve in some instances.
When you "pay for the logo", well there's a reason why it's only a few logos.
People often discount this. QC...NDT specifically, is expensive. It is also considered "non value-added cost. Which is why most lower tier manufacturers only perform it in batches, if at all.
Non destructive testing of AR parts is NVA when you have processes locked down to a near perfect, 6s level (3 parts per million I think?), Which is ideal, but also difficult to achieve in some instances.
When you "pay for the logo", well there's a reason why it's only a few logos.
I can see that, but does that mean that the 1 dpms lower is inferior? This isn't a passing contest. Put a "in spec" dpms lower against the in spec BCM. Is it not the same? We are talking apple to Apple here. Please don't construe that as me saying they are the same quality. I'm measly comparing a 7075 t6 aluminum in spec receiver to another, not BCM to dpms. I am also using these two companies as guinea pigs, not scapegoats. No beef with either really. I won't own another dpms though
If it's bribery, BCM is guilty. They are the ones I bought from that sent me stickers... several times! What will they send when I finally buy a rifle!
Well, I got my favorite hat with just an upper so....
I can see that, but does that mean that the 1 dpms lower is inferior? This isn't a passing contest. Put a "in spec" dpms lower against the in spec BCM. Is it not the same? We are talking apple to Apple here. Please don't construe that as me saying they are the same quality. I'm measly comparing a 7075 t6 aluminum in spec receiver to another, not BCM to dpms. I am also using these two companies as guinea pigs, not scapegoats. No beef with either really. I won't own another dpms though
As a technical matter if you can cover the roll marks and can't tell the difference between the two with an appropriate set of measurement tools, ie micrometers, hole guages, depth mikes, etc etc and the material of manufacture is the same then there is no difference.
What you pay for with components that go through more qc like BCM is a higher probability that everything will be gtg out of the box from start.
Personally I take both paths depending on what I'm doing. In non critical applications where I don't mind fiddling or correcting errors, I save my $ for ammo. My 300blk sbr is an example. It's a range toy by and large so I cobbled together on my own.
For critical apps, I go the other direction because I want it to work first time everytime. My HD rifle, while not bought as a complete rifle, is a BCM upper on BCM lower which gave me a lot of confidence in it before I put the first round through it.
As a technical matter if you can cover the roll marks and can't tell the difference between the two with an appropriate set of measurement tools, ie micrometers, hole guages, depth mikes, etc etc and the material of manufacture is the same then there is no difference.
What you pay for with components that go through more qc like BCM is a higher probability that everything will be gtg out of the box from start.
Personally I take both paths depending on what I'm doing. In non critical applications where I don't mind fiddling or correcting errors, I save my $ for ammo. My 300blk sbr is an example. It's a range toy by and large so I cobbled together on my own.
For critical apps, I go the other direction because I want it to work first time everytime. My HD rifle, while not bought as a complete rifle, is a BCM upper on BCM lower which gave me a lot of confidence in it before I put the first round through it.
Right now, I have two range toys that I have been finding the "right setup" for. .300blk hunting rifle and a carry handle rifle. So, it doesn't matter to me if there's a Calico Jack on the lower or a pony. Once these two are how I want them, I'll move on to a higher end build.
titsonritz
04-23-16, 11:31
Right now, I have two range toys that I have been finding the "right setup" for. .300blk hunting rifle and a carry handle rifle. So, it doesn't matter to me if there's a Calico Jack on the lower or a pony. Once these two are how I want them, I'll move on to a higher end build.
Anderson it is. :jester:
I can see that, but does that mean that the 1 dpms lower is inferior? This isn't a passing contest. Put a "in spec" dpms lower against the in spec BCM. Is it not the same? We are talking apple to Apple here. Please don't construe that as me saying they are the same quality. I'm measly comparing a 7075 t6 aluminum in spec receiver to another, not BCM to dpms. I am also using these two companies as guinea pigs, not scapegoats. No beef with either really. I won't own another dpms though
Usually not talking about visual specs that can be seen with a set of mics.
I'm not an expert on AR parts, but I would assume the HP testing is to expose any material defects in a finished bolt/bbl, and the mag particle is to detect any cracks or other issues, minus an obvious failure from the pressure test.
There is more to it than just "in spec".
I’ve had a complete Spikes lower for several years, no issues at all. I would buy from them again.
Usually not talking about visual specs that can be seen with a set of mics.
I'm not an expert on AR parts, but I would assume the HP testing is to expose any material defects in a finished bolt/bbl, and the mag particle is to detect any cracks or other issues, minus an obvious failure from the pressure test.
There is more to it than just "in spec".
Yeah moving parts under stress are a different matter than lowera.
Generally the HP testing will cause some cracks/imperfections that are below the observation threshold of mpi to grow above the threshold. Overall it lowers the size and amount of any cracks in the bolt, maximizing service life because in fatigue will cause big cracks to grow to the failure point in fewer cycles than small ones.
From a .mil perspective that ensures they meet min service life specs, lowering spare parts required along with cost.
As a civilian if you buy a bolt with one or none (a HP test isn't worth much without mpi btw) it could last as long as a tested bolt or it could fail much sooner. No real way to know though.
Again, what is your use though? My 6.8mm is my coyote/hog gun and has a generic bcg in it. It's lucky if it sees 100rds a year though. My HD rifle that I practice with has a BCM bcg in it that sees quite a bit more use and I still expect it to work first time everytime.
Yeah moving parts under stress are a different matter than lowera.
Generally the HP testing will cause some cracks/imperfections that are below the observation threshold of mpi to grow above the threshold. Overall it lowers the size and amount of any cracks in the bolt, maximizing service life because in fatigue will cause big cracks to grow to the failure point in fewer cycles than small ones.
From a .mil perspective that ensures they meet min service life specs, lowering spare parts required along with cost.
As a civilian if you buy a bolt with one or none (a HP test isn't worth much without mpi btw) it could last as long as a tested bolt or it could fail much sooner. No real way to know though.
Again, what is your use though? My 6.8mm is my coyote/hog gun and has a generic bcg in it. It's lucky if it sees 100rds a year though. My HD rifle that I practice with has a BCM bcg in it that sees quite a bit more use and I still expect it to work first time everytime.
That'll be my 300 blk. Probably put 100 rounds of premium stuff thru it, get the feel, and group it for deer season and that'll be the end of it.
I may not care for spikes as a rifle builder, but 2 weeks before Sandy hook I bought a Zombie Lower for $250 that I ended up selling for almost $800 a few weeks later. We may laugh at the zombie and others but the fuddys are willing to pay for that kind of stuff during a panic.
If only they would do a commemorative lower for "Full Metal Jacket" peace symbol on the mag well. Peace for safety jelly donut for semi and for auto pooooooontaaaaannnggggg!
Peter_Gibbons
04-28-16, 07:40
Anderson
Flankenstein
04-28-16, 11:35
Spikes lowers are 100% fine. I do see no reason to buy a Spikes rifle though.
Averageman
04-28-16, 13:52
Spikes lowers are 100% fine. I do see no reason to buy a Spikes rifle though.
I have a Spikes Lower that is at least ten years old, I've never had an issue. I might not buy from them again, but I can honestly say that it's given me no problems.
Livefreeordie92
04-29-16, 07:15
I have a complete spikes lower that I've replaced the fcg, selector, buffer, pistol grip, stock and end plate on. It uses a 7075 tube and was staked very well from the factory. All of the small parts have been fine with nearly 6k on it. For the price and parts used, I'd buy a BCM, Sionics, SOLGW, or Rainier RUC lower if I were buying a complete lower again but I have no complaints with the spikes. Their roll marks and tacky looking color filling can be a bit over the top though.
As far as rifles go, skip spikes and get a BCM for the same price if not a bit less.
XD40Colorado
05-07-16, 10:44
Over priced for what they are.
You can get a much better rifle such as Colt or BCM for not much more.
Well, as far as I know, at least their stripped lowers are pretty GTG.
Back in the day here.... there was some of the usual talk about which lowers were good to build on and which were not.
I remember specifically well known members here stating (paraphrased) more or less, aside from the obvious no bueno brands, "pick a roll mark you like and build it", the reasoning being the much lower stress parts a lower is generally subjected to.
IIRC, the only real difference found between the Spikes lowers and others is the type 2 (?) anodizing versus the type 3 on the "tier 1" companies, ie, a slightly less durable finish.
Now as far as the complete rifles, personally I can't tell from the last few years of online chatter whether there are real subpar issues, or just some personal beef that has spilled over into trashing of product, and frankly... I don't care.
The simple fact is, while BCM/DD/etc. may be better than Spikes, Spikes is still better than... other... brands, which lands them in the "decent second tier rifle" territory, and for many, or I should say, most, of the folks I know who balk at the price difference of the tier 1 rifles versus their $500 bargain basement POS that has "everything they wanted".... Spikes represents a decent choice that is very similar in price to what they "wanted" while offering an acceptable increase in quality. If I can convince someone on a legit budget on a better rifle than the bottom feeders produce, and still leave them some budget for magazines and ammo, that's a win. Regardless of whether the selector icons are painted in, or the thing has two cockfighting spiders on it.
You guys keep talking about "good enough" "seems OK", etc.
You are missing the point that you can get better, known, top tier for the same or less. Ex:
Spikes stripped lower: $115 for their cheapest
Decent LPK: $130 and up ($180 for spikes enhanced)
Spikes receiver extension and m4 stock: $110
Over $300, and you have still just have a spikes frankengun. Maybe find it on sale complete for $299, with spikes generic LPK.
For $350 MSRP I can buy a complete LMT lower, with warranty. And I've bought them closer to $300, $330 out the door. You can too.
Resale will be higher, fit, finish, and function as the top tier DOD and worldwide military supplier they are. And investigate who uses LMT as as supplier for their own products. And which agencies and armies use their products.
The fact that yes, now spikes stripped lowers do not have problems is immaterial. If I wanted to build a frankengun there are cheaper lowers just as good. But you'd save very little over buying a complete lower from LMT or similar.
This is not paying double or even 50% more for top tier... It's hard to build a better lower cheaper than the LMT defender, and before their 2016 price hike it was harder yet.
TacticalSledgehammer
05-08-16, 11:12
I saved $100 by assembling my spikes crusader lower vs buying a BCM to match my upper. I have around $279 in my lower as it sits using a BCM buffer tube kit, gunfighter stock, spikes lpk, and Magpul moe+ grip. I had a budget that I was trying to stay under building a range rifle. I later used those savings to buy a primary arms red dot. It's a range toy that I'm going to abuse and couldn't stand doing that to an aimpoint.
Lower: $99
Spikes lpk: 65
BCM buffer tube kit: $60
BCM gunfighter (takeoff) stock:35
Magpul grip:$20
I saved $100 by assembling my spikes crusader lower vs buying a BCM to match my upper. I have around $279 in my lower as it sits using a BCM buffer tube kit, gunfighter stock, spikes lpk, and Magpul moe+ grip. I had a budget that I was trying to stay under building a range rifle. I later used those savings to buy a primary arms red dot. It's a range toy that I'm going to abuse and couldn't stand doing that to an aimpoint.
Lower: $99
Spikes lpk: 65
BCM buffer tube kit: $60
BCM gunfighter (takeoff) stock:35
Magpul grip:$20
Still missing the point... you are quoting past street prices $280 is what I paid for a new LMT defender complete lower last year...
I sell the LMT M4 stock and replace it with the magpul of my choice for not much more.
Likewise, you are assuming the spikes LPK is of the same quality as Colt/LMT/DD and now BCM. They might be OK, but it's a leap. The defender comes with an ergo grip, which I've had no problem selling or trading even for a magpul.
So you might have saved a little bit, but not much ($50 at best?). And when you are done, it's still a frankengun vs a top tier mfg with a warranty.
I'd rather have your setup than many other lesser brands, but for similar money, I'd much rather have the LMT.
Likewise, folks are buying 6720 & 6920's, selling the upper and sometimes bcg, and getting colt lowers for not much more. So for me, it does not make sense to build of late.
This may change again with a panic runup near elections, but even then bcg's & lpks become unobtanium.
As an aside, for value LPK it's hard to beat the White Oak/ALG qms combo for $86 lately. No reason to use a generic (Spikes or otherwise) at that price.
I get that folks like to piece together stuff, and I guess you could do worse than a spikes stripped lower. But you are not really saving much, especially if you factor in what you are really getting.
TacticalSledgehammer
05-08-16, 17:42
It was either going to be BCM to make the whole gun match or buy this lower (yes because of the roll mark... I know I know).
I never knew you could buy LMT lowers so cheap. My reasoning for going this route is because I know myself. I'd never let myself do all of the things I wanted to to a complete BCM rifle. Same with My Colts. With this mix master I kinda know it's not gonna hold as much value as a factory build gun. It changes my mindset a bit. It's probably stupid, but that's how I work.
All of the complete LMTs were near the same price as BCMs when I was in the market a month ago. I assume that was after the price hike.
You guys keep talking about "good enough" "seems OK", etc.
You are missing the point that you can get better, known, top tier for the same or less. Ex:
Spikes stripped lower: $115 for their cheapest
Decent LPK: $130 and up ($180 for spikes enhanced)
Spikes receiver extension and m4 stock: $110
Over $300, and you have still just have a spikes frankengun. Maybe find it on sale complete for $299, with spikes generic LPK.
For $350 MSRP I can buy a complete LMT lower, with warranty. And I've bought them closer to $300, $330 out the door. You can too.
Resale will be higher, fit, finish, and function as the top tier DOD and worldwide military supplier they are. And investigate who uses LMT as as supplier for their own products. And which agencies and armies use their products.
The fact that yes, now spikes stripped lowers do not have problems is immaterial. If I wanted to build a frankengun there are cheaper lowers just as good. But you'd save very little over buying a complete lower from LMT or similar.
This is not paying double or even 50% more for top tier... It's hard to build a better lower cheaper than the LMT defender, and before their 2016 price hike it was harder yet.
Where are you finding complete LMT lowers at that price point?
MSRP on LMT website is $496, DSG is running around $463.
I'm genuinely interested, given I'm in the market for a lower right now myself.
Now as far as "current street prices"...
Spikes lower (free ship from AIM + $25 transfer) $115
Sionics complete LPK + shipping $110
BCM ext. tube w/ spring/nut/buffer $68
BCM QD Endplate$17
BCM Gunfighter/ B5 Sopmod Stock $60
BCM shipping $10
Total- $380
So, since I went high-end with the internals and drove the price up, the clear contender here is the BCM lower from G&R.
So for *me*, well, at that price point I'm getting the BCM lower, no contest. There's really no point to a build in that price range without a panic in place.
But look at it from this POV;
At the above price point I'm at the BCM price with *no* stock or transfer fee- so I'm already at +85 bucks towards something else.
If I put a basic MOE stock on the above build, I can put about $20 more toward something else.
If I get the lower at a local shop/show, I may save some on tax versus transfer fee. And local sourcing is another thing to consider, since many won't bother if they can't pick it up locally.
So I've saved someone over $100 for what is still a pretty darn good lower, and they don't have to plunk down all $380 in one shot- they can take a year to build it if they want, as funds allow.
If I went with an even cheaper lower, like one of those Anderson's that were $35 on PA[?] the other day, that's probably another $20 back in the wallet after shipping/fees, and barring a machining error.... all complete, it's still a decent build.
But now which lower has the better resale- the Spikes build or the Anderson?
You see where I'm going with this?
Now.... as far as the rest, I think you missed my point a little.
My point in defense of the Spikes items was simply, *it is better than the bottom feeder stuff people get invested in*.
At the end of the day, it's not about who's better- we all KNOW which is the better stuff- it's about understanding the new buyers or the guys legit on a budget, who turn white at the thought of a $12-1400 AR, pre optic/mags/ammo.
At that point you can either shrug them off and be all like "BCM or die breh" and then complain when they buy a turd, or you can point them at the next best thing that will fit their budget. If I can get them to make a slight budget adjustment to the $800 rifle that fits the 80/20 in favor of decent quality, instead of the turd, that's a win.
Here in high-end rifle happyland, this seems to be forgotten sometimes....
Where are you finding complete LMT lowers at that price point?
MSRP on LMT website is $496, DSG is running around $463.
I'm genuinely interested, given I'm in the market for a lower right now myself.
Now as far as "current street prices"...
Spikes lower (free ship from AIM + $25 transfer) $115
Sionics complete LPK + shipping $110
BCM ext. tube w/ spring/nut/buffer $68
BCM QD Endplate$17
BCM Gunfighter/ B5 Sopmod Stock $60
BCM shipping $10
Total- $380
So, since I went high-end with the internals and drove the price up, the clear contender here is the BCM lower from G&R.
....
[URL]http://www.lmtstore.com/lower-halves/defender-lower-with-collapsing-stock-and-standard-trigger.html/URL]
L7C2 $346. Dealer cost shipped used to be $278'ish. (That may have gone up for 2016)
But 2-3 months ago I paid $330 for one out the door, with taxes, transfer, etc shipped to my dealer.
I'd take a stock LMT lower parts over the sionics, BCM, or the ALG they are emulating. (Ok, sonit won't have the fancy finish that the Sionics or ALG have) no slight to the three of them, I use ALG QMS. But really not any better than the LMT.
I can usually get $25-30 for the LMT M4 stock as a takeoff. Put the B5 you like on and be done. And the LMT has an ergo grip to boot.
Not trying to talk you into LMT, just pointing out you can have better than spikes for the same money or less in some cases.
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