View Full Version : I used to be a fan of BCM
I am not a BCM hater I have a # of builds with their parts and also steered my friends to get BCM parts for their builds as well. So here's the story.
Recently a good friend LEO friend of mine is on the dept committee for their duty rifles.
I suggested BCM and he tried to call and email them several times about purchasing a # of rifles hoping they had a LE pricing program.
He got ZERO responses from either sources.
So today I posted on the BCM's arf.com industry forum site about this issue.
My buddy and I agree that at least you should do is say NO we don't have a program at this time...or go piss in the wind or something. It just bothers me when i get zero feedback at all.
What kind of business loses out on potential sales by not responding? At least have the decency to support your dealers by recommending someone like G and R tactical or something.
Sure enough 30min later on arf.com my post is locked and deleted by BCM. So you have time to go on the internet and lock my shit but not respond to several emails or calls? What a joke.
I really like their stuff...i use their rails, stocks, grips, receivers etc. But after this i won't use them if i have really too.
Anyone else feel like BCM knows that their shit don't stink?
I think you're borderline attacking. Keep it professional and factual or the mods will shut down this one too.
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Lots of good options out there. You should have given your friend several choices to contact. Somehow most of the PDs in the US survive without BCM.
friendlyfireisnt
02-04-16, 17:36
The post blasting them on arfcom is still there, and unlocked as far as I can tell.
BCM. Has changed over the years. Back in '07 or '08 I sent an email in with a question on a Sunday evening, and got a response 20 minutes later from Paul. He used to also answer the phone calls himself.
It's a bigger operation now, that's for sure.
At the same time, if I was them, and saw a post like yours, I would probably ignore you as well, considering the condescension.
Mysteryman
02-04-16, 17:38
Anyone ever think that perhaps someone at BCM dropped the ball, or that they're busy and a return call was forgotten? Not sure where people get this idea that a company should have someone available for the endless requests they receive and that response should be no longer than a half a ring or ten seconds after sending an email... Relax, they're get back to you, give it some time.
MM
#1- You cannot expect anyone to answer the phone these days. #2- How long has it been since your friend called BCM and left a message? #3- Please quote the exact message your friend left. If it was like my name is Bubba and my department wants to by X rifles as cheap as possible see #4. #4- Most LE purchasing departments shop only based on price. Why would BCM choose to compete with BushMaster or RRA when they cannot keep up with the commercial demand? Your post smells like fish to me.
I don't think they are going to miss you... Last I checked they can't keep products on the shelves. I can see many reasons not to want to sell to a deal with agencies directly.
Linebacker
02-04-16, 17:50
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/LawEnforcement/Products.aspx
...Anyone else feel like BCM knows that their shit don't stink?
No. No one else does.
Berserkr556
02-04-16, 17:58
From their beginning BCM has always stated they don't answer the phone and for folks to email. I have never failed to receive an answer back when I sent BCM an email. Sometimes I got my answer in minutes other times days. If they're busy it could be days or longer. I'm a big fan of BCM
I wish I could say this surprises me but it doesn't. This is somewhat dated now (3 years) but when I got my first AR 15 I was trying to go through BCM, I had placed my order on the website and checked my credit card balance the next day it hadn't taken the money out of my accounts but I didn't worry about it I continue to watch my account balance and after three more days the rifle that I had ordered and gotten an confirmation email from them went out of stock.
Two days after it went out of stock on their website BCM's wedding site withdrew the money from my account the problem was that it with Drew twice the amount of the price of the rifle. Immediately after seeing that I sent them a email and called the phone number I continually did this for almost 10 business days and was unable to get a hold of anyone or had a response to my emails. On the last day of trying to get of hold of someone they called me back and said they could only withdrew the money for one rifle which was half of it was actually taken from account and that the rifle I could place the order for was out of stock. To their credit they did offer to sell me a different model AR that they did have in stock at the time which would've costed me roughly $300 more but they would not charge me the extra $300. The problem I had though was that I had had nearly $3000 taken out of my Credit card account and their computer system wasn't showing that.
Suffice it to say I couldn't afford to lose nearly $3000 on one rifle and miscellaneous parts so I canceled the order and asked them to return the money, the person I was talking to said they take care of that and I'd have the money returned to my account within one or two business days. A week later I still didn't have my money back so I tried to get in contact with them again, after calling them every day for nearly a week and not being able to get a hold of someone I called my bank to Explain what happened and cancel that transaction.
Thankfully my bank was able to help me with that and they credited my account what it been taken from it after that I do not know what actions my bank took.
What upset me most about that is that I had placed a number of small orders from BCM's website in the past for family members that didn't have a debit or credit card and I haven't had a single issue, Good prices, fast shipping and ironically enough good customer service I had been shipped the wrong product once I called after business hours left them my phone number and what happened told them that I'd be in a meeting the next morning but call whenever they got the message and have the time to do so. They called me at two in the afternoon that day. how can CS do better than that?
I spent five minutes on the phone with that particular person and they sent me A prepaid shipping label to send the wrong items back free of charge. I was expecting to get an envelope with the label, instead three days later I got a box with the right parts and the page shipping label in the box!
How can a company have such drastic differences in customer service. I don't understand it at all
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fallenromeo
02-04-16, 18:02
Tell his department to look into Sionics then if he isn't happy with BCM.
#1- You cannot expect anyone to answer the phone these days. #2- How long has it been since your friend called BCM and left a message? #3- Please quote the exact message your friend left. If it was like my name is Bubba and my department wants to by X rifles as cheap as possible see #4. #4- Most LE purchasing departments shop only based on price. Why would BCM choose to compete with BushMaster or RRA when they cannot keep up with the commercial demand? Your post smells like fish to me.
Budget for each rifle is $2500 including optics and suppressors if they can fit it for under $2500 each.
So they aren't looking shrub master or RRA etc. Currently he has price quotes with DD and Sig.
P.S.
I love BCM's products and I have a number of them I'm just incredibly cautious when I make a purchase on their website.
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firefighter37
02-04-16, 18:16
#1- You cannot expect anyone to answer the phone these days. #2- How long has it been since your friend called BCM and left a message? #3- Please quote the exact message your friend left. If it was like my name is Bubba and my department wants to by X rifles as cheap as possible see #4. #4- Most LE purchasing departments shop only based on price. Why would BCM choose to compete with BushMaster or RRA when they cannot keep up with the commercial demand? Your post smells like fish to me.
I disagree with #1. Yes, you can expect people to answer the phone, especially if they want to make a sale.
You have to look on all sides of the equation. If you want that small business personal feel, then don't be mad when the product you want is not in stock. In many small businesses, the person who answers the phone, is many times the same person who is turning wrenches. If they are answering phones, they aren't turning out physical goods. That's how BCM used to be...
Fast forward to today, BCM is a huge name in the industry, they sell millions of dollars in product every year, and their quality has mostly remained the same, a product you can count on. They fulfill orders in a timely fashion, and deliver a quality product. When this happens, customer service usually takes a backseat. That's when the decline begins, and it slowly, but almost surely gets worse before it gets better. The truth is, BCM doesn't need you, because they have others lined up right behind you.
WickedWillis
02-04-16, 18:18
The OP's post does come off as a bit attacky. I do understand what you are saying however. Fortunately for you Paul, and other BCM employees have actual accounts on M4C and do a fantastic job communicating with the community on here. That being said, they are a continuously growing company and have a metric shit ton of things to do every day. I am sorry your friend wasn't able to get through to someone. I have had negative issues with some very popular vendors on here, be careful who you call out. Just a friendly tip.
Budget for each rifle is $2500 including optics and suppressors if they can fit it for under $2500 each.
So they aren't looking shrub master or RRA etc. Currently he has price quotes with DD and Sig.
So your friend calls BCM and leaves this message... My name is Bubba and I want to buy X M4 rifles with cans and scopes for $2,500 or less if you can fit it in. This gets less believable by the minute.
firefighter37
02-04-16, 18:25
So your friend calls BCM and leaves this message... My name is Bubba and I want to buy X M4 rifles with cans and scopes for $2,500 or less if you can fit it in. This gets less believable by the minute.
I believe that it happened, maybe not exactly like that, the problem I see, is that BCM doesn't sell cans....
not all that long ago i emailed them about the storage space in their grips, and the next day they responded.
did you or your friend check your spam inbox?
oh, and your post on arfcom is still there, and it isn't locked.
JackFanToM
02-04-16, 18:25
Any company will have the occasional aberration in their CS. It happens, so what you need to pay attention to is the percentage of good CS contacts vs negative. In addition OP, as you are posting on an experience someone else had, and mention you posted on behalf of your buddy (with whom you agreed with but you had no intention of buying any rifles), did you really think BCM should respond, or be accountable to you? I think my feeling towards this post would be a bit different if it was 1st person experience. Too easy to say, "I had a friend who said he had a bad experience with X brand".
Voodoochild
02-04-16, 18:25
You posted your thread over there at 515. They responded today around 645 or so. So the story about your thread being locked and deleted doesn't jive. Wanna try this again?
firefighter37
02-04-16, 18:27
The big problem that I have, is that BCM can do no wrong to some people, but if another company did the same thing, they would be trashed up and down. Same goes for Colt... Bad CS is bad CS, no matter what company dishes it out.
To me it seems like the OP has an axe to grind, that he is not telling us about.
You posted your thread over there at 515. They responded today around 645 or so. So the story about your thread being locked and deleted doesn't jive. Wanna try this again?
How about the fact that if you call BCM the message asks you to email them, gives you the email address, and then there is no way to leave a message and the call hangs up. I agree that CS there is not what it used to be but I agree with voodoo; this story doesn't jive.
Not your correspondence. No timeline. No examples of messages sent, with date-stamps. No real details worthy of the name. Our "contact the vendor/manufacturer FIRST" rule includes a component where the one contacted is given an appropriate opportunity to respond...and there's zero posted to suggest that that occurred.
Benefit of the doubt being given, I'll not say that you're making this up, but you just splashing this over here (and elsewhere, probably under the same circumstances) and expecting folks to take it at face value...when it's not even really YOUR story to tell.
I'm not saying that this is getting canked, but it's being temporarily closed while you decide as to whether you want to get your evidence together, instead of trying to get traction on a buncha broad-brush allegations that actually derive from a source other than you.
I don't care if it's BCM, or the Lesbian Queen of Xanadu....this is not how it's done. We have examples of threads where a legit gripe is levied, with attribution of all relevances, for the purposes of taking info public in an effort at getting redress, or getting the word out if there is no redress to be had.
So IF you elect to do it the way it's supposed to be done (per the policies/practices to which you agreed to abide by registering for membership here, and re-affirm every time you log in), vice the way you feel like doing it, you provide me the necessary info so that this may be edited and re-opened as a complete story instead of the glittering generality it is.
Possibly related: http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/sbr-s-for-dept-purchase
Voodoochild
02-05-16, 10:39
Unlocked so BCM rep can respond.
BravoCompanyUSA
02-05-16, 10:48
I am not a BCM hater I have a # of builds with their parts and also steered my friends to get BCM parts for their builds as well. So here's the story.
Recently a good friend LEO friend of mine is on the dept committee for their duty rifles.
I suggested BCM and he tried to call and email them several times about purchasing a # of rifles hoping they had a LE pricing program.
He got ZERO responses from either sources.
So today I posted on the BCM's arf.com industry forum site about this issue.
My buddy and I agree that at least you should do is say NO we don't have a program at this time...or go piss in the wind or something. It just bothers me when i get zero feedback at all.
What kind of business loses out on potential sales by not responding? At least have the decency to support your dealers by recommending someone like G and R tactical or something.
Sure enough 30min later on arf.com my post is locked and deleted by BCM. So you have time to go on the internet and lock my shit but not respond to several emails or calls? What a joke.
I really like their stuff...i use their rails, stocks, grips, receivers etc. But after this i won't use them if i have really too.
Anyone else feel like BCM knows that their shit don't stink?
Given the limited information in your first post I would say 100% of your information is inaccurate. 100% is a lot.
You stated; “Sure enough 30min later on arf.com my post is locked and deleted by BCM. So you have time to go on the internet and lock my shit but not respond to several emails or calls? What a joke.”
This is not a joke and nowhere close to funny. Your post was NEVER locked and NEVER deleted. How could you make such a misstatement? You post was replied to within 88 minutes. Then about an hour after we replied, YOU deleted your original post. See it right here at this link:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/273811_No_response_to_emails.html
So with the hit and run job on ARF and here on M4C, I set aside multiple staff members to go thru every single LE Dept request we could find on our email server within the last few weeks. We have about 4 man hours in just following up on your inaccurate and libelous post. Here is what we have found: EVERY single request for quote was answered (and quoted) sometime between 2 hours and 1 business day. EVERY single one, is a lot.
And response times for RFQ (request for quotes) between 2 hours and 1 business day is almost unheard of in this industry, especially during the peak seasons (Q4/Q1). Could an email be caught in a spam filter, yes it’s possible but given the limited amount of info in your post on M4C and your refusal to reply to the question on ARF we cannot possibly investigate it any further. If we did make a mistake I would be the first one to apologize as we do make unintended mistakes.
I am not sure if you are feeling the “Bern” and think corporations are some evil crass uncaring entity, but please be advised they are really just people. Folks that bust their butt every day to offer a premium level of service in a market full of great companies. Folks that take much pride in their work and feel blessed to be in an industry where following a moral compass for the trust of our customers and the good of the industry is part of the mission statement. And these good folks had to hear me unload on them because of the possibility that a customer was not handled in a professional manner. The first part of this ordeal was your mistake, the second was mine.
On and different note; on behalf the team at Bravo, thank you so much to all the folks who support and trust our company and our products. We do not take that lightly. Without our customers we have no purpose and have no mission. We are truly indebted to you.
BravoCompanyUSA
02-05-16, 10:52
Possibly related: http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/sbr-s-for-dept-purchase
I inquired about that case on the lightfighter link. All replies and that quote was sent out in a matter of hours, and as I found out this AM, their government email server was blocking all our replies. According to that LEO, they have no idea who the OP is, so I am guessing its not related?
I am not a BCM hater I have a # of builds with their parts and also steered my friends to get BCM parts for their builds as well. So here's the story.
Recently a good friend LEO friend of mine is on the dept committee for their duty rifles.
I suggested BCM and he tried to call and email them several times about purchasing a # of rifles hoping they had a LE pricing program.
He got ZERO responses from either sources.
So today I posted on the BCM's arf.com industry forum site about this issue.
My buddy and I agree that at least you should do is say NO we don't have a program at this time...or go piss in the wind or something. It just bothers me when i get zero feedback at all.
What kind of business loses out on potential sales by not responding? At least have the decency to support your dealers by recommending someone like G and R tactical or something.
Sure enough 30min later on arf.com my post is locked and deleted by BCM. So you have time to go on the internet and lock my shit but not respond to several emails or calls? What a joke.
I really like their stuff...i use their rails, stocks, grips, receivers etc. But after this i won't use them if i have really too.
Anyone else feel like BCM knows that their shit don't stink?
Quoting this so the content does not disappear....
Beat Trash
02-05-16, 10:59
A few months ago, I started the process of obtaining bids for AR's (Patrol Rifles) to be issued to my K-9 officers. I was only looking for 20 rifles. But the gun and vender that I ended up going with would also be what my counterpart at the Firearms Training Unit would be using to replace worn Agency Pool Guns with when conducting future purchases for the agency as a whole. I called a few venders, and even those I called on the phone, I still submitted an email request via my agency email address. Some venders required the request be submitted on Departmental letterhead. BCM was not one of the venders that I reached out to. But my point being if someone is wanting to do an agency purchase, there's usually more to it than a phone call.
As for BCM, I had an issue with a personally purchased lower that I bought, that wouldn't seat Gen3 PMAG's. It started a rather long, multi page discussion that I eventually backed out of as the topic went various directions. The one thing that I can say about BCM during my lower experience with them is that the lines of communication were open throughout the process. But the communication was via email. I actually prefer to conduct business of this nature via email as there will be a document of what exactly was said.
Was I happy with BCM's thoughts on the compatibility of their lowers with gen3 PMAG's? No I was not. But do I feel that I can complain about the companies lack of communication, or can I accuse them of having a pretentious attitude? No I can not. Their customer service department was excellent. I just did not get the answer that I expected.
There are a lot of companies that have agency sales programs. But there is also a process so that the vender/company can vet the individual as actually being an authorized representative of said Law Enforcement Agency.
Mrgunsngear
02-05-16, 11:56
No. No one else does.
This. The folks at BCM are super personable and knowledgeable.
Auto-X Fil
02-05-16, 12:20
You guys are all being suckered in!
The OP clearly is sick of waiting around for BCM parts to be in-stock, and this is an attempt to hurt their sales, so he can get that upper he wants. :-)
Call me a BCM fanboy, but those guys are professionals and care about what they are doing. I feel fortunate that they value the commercial market, and provide such a high quality of product. They are not willing to compromise quality, and not willing to compromise the service their customers appreciate. The time they take to participate in forums, such as this, is greatly appreciated. I'm proud to support BCM, and have nothing but complete confidence in the products they provide. My children have BCM carbines sitting in the safe waiting for the day they are ready to use them.
Being in manufacturing, I deal with numerous reputable vendors. Typically, customer service goes down one of two ways. Either you get what you want taken care of, or as in the case of Beat Trash's experience above, it doesn't go your way (For whatever reason). In a timely manner.
What is NOT typical, is no response at all.
This is ESPECIALLY true with regard to RFQs, as they are almost always time sensitive due to budget windows, changing material prices, etc. If I receive no response from a vendor at all, I automatically assume that something has broken down between my request and their receipt of the request, And it's almost always the case.
This particular event, to me anyway, appears to be something else. I think BCM is being very generous in calling this a "hit and run", because it looks more like a straight up drive-by to me.
That, or some dipshit who doesn't know what he is talking about.
P.S. --
On the chance somebody decides to proclaim me a fanboy, I own exactly one BCM charging handle, and that's it from them. (It is f**king fantastic, btw...)
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Constable1956
02-05-16, 12:28
I have purchased a king's ransom worth of uppers, parts, etc from Bravo over the years. Most of the time order in the morning and it arrives the next day. One minor issue with a loose hand guard that was fixed within 48 hours. In my personal experience they have some of the best customer service in the industry. Communication never a problem. I would hazard a guess and say my experience is not unique....
masenomics
02-05-16, 12:29
I've been purchasing from BCM since 08/09 and every single order I've ever purchased from them has been 100% accurate and in the most timely manner, and in those early years I would receive packages from them within 3-4 days here in CO, so I would just like to give a big shout out to Pual and all the great employees over there. They're an awesome standout company in a industry that is obviously very difficult to do that in, and they offered professional products at great prices at a time when colt was one of the only companies to get quality parts from. Again thanks for all you do BRAVO COMPANY, now please just get some LPK instock and make an M-lok rail and accessories.
Now that the other party's had their say, closed again in the event that the OP is willing to gather and present the specifics required.
So far, it's a good primer on how NOT to try and pitch a gripe aboard this forum. You can't be telling a tale that's not your own, and do it without being unwilling or unable to provide the specifics required to back it up.
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