View Full Version : HHV ATE Ballistic Helmets?
lawusmc0844
02-06-16, 00:26
The issue LWH and MICH with Surefire earplugs have worked fine for me for years. Now that I finally have my own PVS-14 and acquired a MSA Sordin 75305 model, my standard cut MICH won't fit over the Sordins. (I know the neckband version is designed for better interface with helmets but I got my Sordins in a trade from my buddy, current prices for new are too high IMO) I would love to get a more modern high speed Kevlar like the Ops Core FAST but $1000+ for a helmet is way too much for me. Looking around, I came across http://www.hardheadveterans.com/ but no reviews from anyone yet. These helmets are configured just like an Ops Core but at half the price, it is very tempting. I don't doubt Ops Core's quality as I use their excellent X-Nape chin strap on my MICH and of course all the high speed units that use their helmets. However, besides weight, what makes the Ops Core worth the $500+ premium over the ATE? And does anyone have any experience with the ATE and HHV as a company?
I'm interested myself. You may look at Arma Core helmets. Similar build and price. They claim NIJ certification but I haven't requested I
It like they say on their site. Although I haven't found any reviews with them either
I don't personally have any experience with this helmet but I too have been looking for a quality alternative to the ops-core and this looks like it fits the bill really well
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Thank you for posting this. I too would be interested in some reviews but to be honest I may just take the plunge and try one. Can always sell it if it's not up to standard.
kaltesherz
02-08-16, 01:32
I don't know about you guys, but I'm not trusting my head to a cheap Chinese made helmet equivalent to a Del-ton. Nope, no way, no how.
For that price you can pick up a used ACH and outfit it w/ an Ops Core H nape, Team Wendy Epic Air pads, and even then have enough left over for a Norotos Universal shroud.
Hard Head Veterans
02-11-16, 14:23
Hey guys, thank you for the interest in our helmets. Noticed we were getting a good amount of traffic from this website so we wanted to make sure we were available to answer any questions.
The first thing you should know is that our shells are made in house! We do however source our liners, shroud, and pads (Mexico and China). What we aim to accomplish with our helmets is that you can replace everything with whatever your preference is with shrouds, liners, pads, and rails. Or keep it the way it is for a quality helmet that fits the majority of peoples needs.
One thing that will also be an option in the future is simply purchasing the shell only. This will be our DIY option, with the customer doing the painting and buying everything else.
Please email us at info@hardheadveterans.com if you would like to see our ballistic and impact testing reports. We just ask that you don't post them online as we have already had problems with foreign helmet manufactures altering and using them to their own purpose.
lawusmc0844
02-12-16, 17:44
I don't know about you guys, but I'm not trusting my head to a cheap Chinese made helmet equivalent to a Del-ton. Nope, no way, no how.
For that price you can pick up a used ACH and outfit it w/ an Ops Core H nape, Team Wendy Epic Air pads, and even then have enough left over for a Norotos Universal shroud.
Because everything made in China must be crap right? Plenty of crap made in America as well, body armor is no exception. Quality control is the important factor, but I shouldn't have to pay thousands of dollars more for it.
Hey guys, thank you for the interest in our helmets. Noticed we were getting a good amount of traffic from this website so we wanted to make sure we were available to answer any questions.
The first thing you should know is that our shells are made in house! We do however source our liners, shroud, and pads (Mexico and China). What we aim to accomplish with our helmets is that you can replace everything with whatever your preference is with shrouds, liners, pads, and rails. Or keep it the way it is for a quality helmet that fits the majority of peoples needs.
One thing that will also be an option in the future is simply purchasing the shell only. This will be our DIY option, with the customer doing the painting and buying everything else.
Please email us at info@hardheadveterans.com if you would like to see our ballistic and impact testing reports. We just ask that you don't post them online as we have already had problems with foreign helmet manufactures altering and using them to their own purpose.
Thank you for your response and welcome to M4C! I've looked at your site and your FB posts and though a helmet is currently out of my budget, yours is still an option in the future. Right now I got to pay off bills and do my taxes. Please include the DIY option, it is an excellent idea!
Law, I think kaltesherz is talking about foreign armor not being certified. If these helmets have actually been tested/certified, great. Those eBay OpsCoreDeltaSEALSpecOps specials have not and might as well be a bump helmet.
That said, I would love to pick up a shell only depending on price. I'm looking at a TNVC build on a rabintex shell to save a few hundred vs an Ops or TW
kaltesherz
02-13-16, 12:03
Because everything made in China must be crap right? Plenty of crap made in America as well, body armor is no exception. Quality control is the important factor, but I shouldn't have to pay thousands of dollars more for it.
China is capable of producing varying degrees of quality, including the higher end for certain products, but quality control and accountability (or lack thereof) is still a big factor. Not only are you paying for better quality control, standards, and testing but many US produced armors have a long proven track record over GWOT. I'm glad to hear HHV is making the shell stateside, that's a major improvement over dubious imported helmets that have been cropping up lately.
Hard Head Veterans
02-13-16, 17:08
Law, I think kaltesherz is talking about foreign armor not being certified. If these helmets have actually been tested/certified, great. Those eBay OpsCoreDeltaSEALSpecOps specials have not and might as well be a bump helmet.
That said, I would love to pick up a shell only depending on price. I'm looking at a TNVC build on a rabintex shell to save a few hundred vs an Ops or TW
We will be well below the rabintex shell cost, but whats on the table right now is a 3 hole, and probably just painted one color or no color at all. TNVC has pretty good prices on some of their helmet extras, so we will probably point customers in this direction.
Good to hear. Any plans to have holes for arc rails? I plan on getting a certified shell and building with other parts but I don't want to drill into the armor myself lol
Hard Head Veterans
02-16-16, 20:26
Yes actually as just about every chinstrap and liner system out there for the high cuts use this same drill pattern.
Sierrahotel83
03-28-16, 21:13
A question I have is, is there helmet that a set of rails taken off of an ops core fast helmet will fit?
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Sierrahotel83
03-28-16, 21:14
Hopefully in the very near future I will be I the market for a shell.
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The shells are made in house in the USA? Are they NIJ certified? If so, to what spec?
Hey guys, thank you for the interest in our helmets. Noticed we were getting a good amount of traffic from this website so we wanted to make sure we were available to answer any questions.
The first thing you should know is that our shells are made in house! We do however source our liners, shroud, and pads (Mexico and China). What we aim to accomplish with our helmets is that you can replace everything with whatever your preference is with shrouds, liners, pads, and rails. Or keep it the way it is for a quality helmet that fits the majority of peoples needs.
One thing that will also be an option in the future is simply purchasing the shell only. This will be our DIY option, with the customer doing the painting and buying everything else.
Please email us at info@hardheadveterans.com if you would like to see our ballistic and impact testing reports. We just ask that you don't post them online as we have already had problems with foreign helmet manufactures altering and using them to their own purpose.
Sorry for bringing this back from the dead but I've been looking for a helmet, and doing my research. If you go to these guys website it says "We use American materials for our helmet shell and have them produced overseas.". I don't know about you but this to me looks just as iffy as a few other helmet manufacturers. Just check out their about us page
Sorry for bringing this back from the dead but I've been looking for a helmet, and doing my research. If you go to these guys website it says "We use American materials for our helmet shell and have them produced overseas.". I don't know about you but this to me looks just as iffy as a few other helmet manufacturers. Just check out their about us page
What is important to realize is this...
This is a copy of the Ops Core pattern helmet shape. Its a Kevlar helmet, like the ACH. It is not UHMWPE like a real Ops Core. It is a NIJ spec, meaning it stops bullets, but has no backface rating like a military helmet does. So it may stop a .44 mag but still kill you because your skull was crushed in. The reason Revision or other similar well known and respected Kevlar helmet company is not doing the Ops Core shape/cut, is because they would be sued. If Ops Core just made a cheap Kevlar LE version of their helmet, then this market niche would not exist. Companies like this are filling the market demand when a better product is not available and they will not communicate when you start giving a hard critical look at the product. Still its far better than a non ballistic helmet if you need protection from handgun or frag penetration. The Ops Core shape is far better than the high cut ACH since the ACH is too high since you remove the ear flanges to get the high cut shape.
I couldn't find them listed on NIJs site as certied
I'm not where I can link the video. But there was a video somewhere of tests on HHV helmets that showed significant deformation, no penetration.
After seeing that I will probably go for a revision helmet. Does anyone know if the ops core ACH-ARC rails will fit the Revision A1 high cut?
Use the size specific stand alone rails from Revision. They pay royalty to Ops Core using the same attachment but have color matched colors for each shell color and each rail is size specific, so they are better than ARC rails.
I couldn't find them listed on NIJs site as certied
They are not certified, they passed the certification testing at a certified lab.
Hard Head Veterans
10-25-16, 06:07
Hello everyone, hopefully we can clear up any questions you guys have on our lids!
What is important to realize is this...
This is a copy of the Ops Core pattern helmet shape. Its a Kevlar helmet, like the ACH. It is not UHMWPE like a real Ops Core. It is a NIJ spec, meaning it stops bullets, but has no backface rating like a military helmet does. So it may stop a .44 mag but still kill you because your skull was crushed in. The reason Revision or other similar well known and respected Kevlar helmet company is not doing the Ops Core shape/cut, is because they would be sued. If Ops Core just made a cheap Kevlar LE version of their helmet, then this market niche would not exist. Companies like this are filling the market demand when a better product is not available and they will not communicate when you start giving a hard critical look at the product. Still its far better than a non ballistic helmet if you need protection from handgun or frag penetration. The Ops Core shape is far better than the high cut ACH since the ACH is too high since you remove the ear flanges to get the high cut shape.
What specific backface rating are you referring to? We have had every test that we know of performed on our lids and would love to share this data! From everything we have seen our helmets actually seem to do better when it comes to deformation due to our choice of a very proven material over a hybrid (We use DuPont™ KevlarŪ) . Yes it adds a little weight, but also decreases the cost significantly and arguably provides a little better protection.
I couldn't find them listed on NIJs site as certied
Are you referring to the JTIC site? We looked, but didn't see a single helmet listed here. Are we missing something or not looking in the right place/list? Noticed they require the use of a certified NIJ lab, since we already use one of their accepted labs (NTS) it shouldn't be an issue to get on the list with our lids if they accept helmets! ***EDIT, confirmed with JTIC that they do not do helmets***
Yes we manufacture overseas, utilizing American materials for our shells. Yes this brings up numerous issues we have to address, and yes they are all addressed. There is a good number of companies out there pushing products found on Alibaba with very questionable ballistic capabilities and quality control. We are not those companies.
We are very serious about the product and service we provide because at the end of the day we are providing them to our brothers. At the end of the day we want our service providers to have the best gear possible even when budgets and support are shrinking. As always please let us know if you have any specific questions.
The backface rating I was referring to was the deformation in clay on the head dummy used in milspec helmet testing. The NIJ helmet testing is a penetration rating without the backface signature being specified at a certain mm limit. IF you have test results on backface, please post them. If they are good it would do nothing but help sell your helmets.
Hard Head Veterans
11-02-16, 11:05
The backface rating I was referring to was the deformation in clay on the head dummy used in milspec helmet testing. The NIJ helmet testing is a penetration rating without the backface signature being specified at a certain mm limit. IF you have test results on backface, please post them. If they are good it would do nothing but help sell your helmets.
Stay tuned to our website and social media, video with BFD/BTD (w/ FARO) along with the paper data will be posted up in the next coming weeks! Like I mentioned before the use of a slightly heavier and thicker material in our helmets actually preforms better then the new hybrid lighter-weight materials (at least from what we have seen, other companies won't release this actual data to the public). Our lids weigh slightly more (less then a pound), but our customers are mostly LEO. We think they would rather have a little better protection then save a few ounces.
Stay tuned to our website and social media, video with BFD/BTD (w/ FARO) along with the paper data will be posted up in the next coming weeks! Like I mentioned before the use of a slightly heavier and thicker material in our helmets actually preforms better then the new hybrid lighter-weight materials (at least from what we have seen, other companies won't release this actual data to the public). Our lids weigh slightly more (less then a pound), but our customers are mostly LEO. We think they would rather have a little better protection then save a few ounces.
If yours is better than lighter weight helmets, oh I'd say Ops Core comes to mind, why don't you purchase one and do a side by side destruction video of them? I saw a video of your helmet being shot and while there was no penetration the wearer would probably still die, definitely be a vegetable, in which case if rather be dead
Depending on a few different factors, I might be interested in writing up something for a print magazine. The LEO side of me is always interested in ways to see legit equipment get into the hands off good people, especially those of us in uniform.
HHV can email or IM me if they have interest. Look at my sig line for info of who I write for.
I'd like to see that as well, Stick. I want to believe these can be trusted for duty use, but until I see something more conclusive I'll stay on the hunt for an ops core or TW.
I'd like to see that as well, Stick. I want to believe these can be trusted for duty use, but until I see something more conclusive I'll stay on the hunt for an ops core or TW.
There is going to come a day where we (LEO) are going to all be issued helmets, if they aren't already. I've been issued a few helmets, some were for riots, and better ones for use on the teams. However, I mean at some point LEO will be wearing external armor (think original robocop movie what the cops wore), and will have helmets for priority calls.
HHV has contacted me, and I have a few different ideas for testing. It also sounds like they are already going to be releasing more video and info, so I'll see about that as well.
In my view, there is MUCH more than NIJ testing which is involved in reviewing a helmet. Ballistic protection maybe the overall deciding factor, but I can see many functions that are up there as well in importance. First and foremost, is comfort, followed by durability. If a review isn't covering life in a helmet, it is a garbage review. I mean living in the helmet, eating with it on, fighting with it on, shooting, and on and on. It also needs to be done by more than one person, preferably to include both people who have worn helmets, and a sampling of those who have not.
Can I promise a review of going into downed burning choppers while being ambushed? Nope, but I can work a helmet into circumstances that replicate battle and hard military & LE lifestyle situations, all while documenting it in pictures....
If yours is better than lighter weight helmets, oh I'd say Ops Core comes to mind, why don't you purchase one and do a side by side destruction video of them? I saw a video of your helmet being shot and while there was no penetration the wearer would probably still die, definitely be a vegetable, in which case if rather be dead
I've conducted FBI protocol testing and understand your concern with back-face deformation, and the issues it brings. However, what I saw in the video appeared to be an issue only after multiple rounds into the same area. I might not be looking at the same video or time as you, but like I said, I certainly understand the issue.
For people who aren't aware of what back-face deformation is, when a bullet impacts a vest, the section which is hit bends/ stretches rearward, kind of like you pushing your finger into a balloon. What many people who read about this misunderstand is that your typical vest isn't just moving backwards at the impact point, it is also moving forward around the impact area. This is why clay is used in a brace, so the actual impact and subsequent back face deformation can be assessed. The clay is molded by the impact it receives, even though it is generally acknowledged as not showing what exactly happens on the human body.
Take this issue, and now think about the human skull. While the ribs and torso are pretty good about impact and movement, our skull is more like an egg, while the body could be more like a pancake. Excuse the food examples as I missed breakfast, but these still retain common sense and are easy to understand in this case. Much like an egg, our brain housing unit doesn't like to be cracked open. You can see quickly there is more to head protection than just something hard. Rigidity, weight, and flexibility are all portions that come into play, but so does distance from the skull, and helmet suspension.
Before anyone jumps in to tell me "backface" deformation is now termed "behind armor blunt trauma" (BABT), I'm aware, but since the terminology for BABT seems to be strictly military in its research and studies, I don't think the term "backface/ back-face/ back face" is gone for LE or other uses.
Nor do I think we lose anything by discussing it with or without cadaver studies which are all strongly indicative of skull fractures of varying levels. There is also a level of importance to the idea that bone density varies in individuals, and not only by age (though that appears to be a large part). An 18 year old infantryman is going to fair better than a 55 year old street cop.
ETA- A final point to remember is that BABT/ backface deformation is part of the composite shell ballistic experience, and isn't something we are going to avoid. A proper fitting helmet is important, and a gap between the skull and helmet must be maintained, ideally at or more than 12mm (according to DCSSA/AST/REC).
I'm running a Revision Viper A3 shell, department issued, for LEO use when a plate carrier is warranted. Basically, that means all our felony arrests we do at the end of an investigation, or an active shooter, or potential active shooter call. I would buy my own shell in a heartbeat if I could get the Opscore shape, with the same quality of construction. I use a Wilcox L4 3 hole shroud, the stand alone OpsCore licensed Revision stand alone rails, and the upgraded dial fit, net hanger, velcro pad MSS suspension from Revision (because it is issued). It's a fine setup but the high cut is too high, the rear suspension point does not let the harness go over active ears as easily as the OpsCore, the suspension and pads could be better, and the ARC rails have a few differences with normal OpsCore rails (by goes at top of rail instead of bottom. IF HHV had a premium set up with Wilcox L4 shroud, real or licensed ARC rails, Team Wendy cam fit EPIC Air Suspension/pads, I'd be an immediate customer. All the helmet companies do ACH shell shapes and while you might find OpsCore or Wilcox shrouds and even genuine ARC rails, they never offer the really high end suspensions or pads. My understanding is HHV has a lot of lower end extras. Those may be great for sales to civilians going for a look, but people who use a helmet regularly will want high end options at a good price or just a basic shell with velcro and no pads/suspension, rails, or shroud, but already pre drilled 3 hole, without a shroud. I really hope you can offer such a product that has ballistic testing to back up the claims. Even if it's just a drilled and velcroed shell. IF you want a tester I'd happily do that too.
They offer the shell sold by itself. If the quality was there I would pick one up and build with quality parts. Until then I'm looking for an Ops Core for duty use.
My understanding is HHV has a lot of lower end extras. Those may be great for sales to civilians going for a look, but people who use a helmet regularly will want high end options at a good price or just a basic shell with velcro and no pads/suspension, rails, or shroud, but already pre drilled 3 hole, without a shroud.
If you read the last few posts I wrote, you can see there is a large amount of variables, but one of the key things is helmet to head spacing. You want that magic 12mm of air space.
Regarding the "lower end extras" it comes with, the only thing I saw was the light mount and 1913 rail pieces which may have been questionable. What were you seeing?
They offer the shell sold by itself. If the quality was there I would pick one up and build with quality parts. Until then I'm looking for an Ops Core for duty use.
That is what I've been using for a long time.
If you read the last few posts I wrote, you can see there is a large amount of variables, but one of the key things is helmet to head spacing. You want that magic 12mm of air space.
Regarding the "lower end extras" it comes with, the only thing I saw was the light mount and 1913 rail pieces which may have been questionable. What were you seeing?
The Ops Skeletal shroud, the rails, and the Velcro sold by HHV, appear to be non genuine Ops parts, but copies, at least that I have seen. The Velcro in particular seemed to lose adhesion. I'm not a Velcro to helmet shell advocate and I am by no means an Ops Core product expert. No one offers really high end suspension and pads that sells helmets, other than TW. I would not even calls the MSS Revision sells "high end" more like "mid level" suspension and padding.
Mrgunsngear
02-28-17, 14:29
https://youtu.be/aqlatmP_8t0
Figured I'd post an update for those following this thread from last year.
https://youtu.be/aqlatmP_8t0
Figured I'd post an update for those following this thread from last year.
Appreciate the review, never really considered a helmet as a civilian, but found it interesting. I know some of my local PD got the Safariland Delta X and they love it, but I'm sure that they paid a good amount of department money, when you think about all the other stuff you can outfit some of those officers with the difference in price between the two, it is pretty significant.
As of 11/17/16 they updated a test result for back face deformation. It's on their website. Their helmets have had me intrigued for awhile. Thanks Mrgunsngear for the review also.
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