View Full Version : Picked up a Colt Expanse M4 (CE1000) today
Picked up a Colt Expanse M4 (CE1000) today and wanted to share some pictures.
Box content: PMAG, manual, chamber flag, lock
http://i.imgur.com/6aftXu6.png
http://i.imgur.com/sV6QAp3.png
http://i.imgur.com/LMaj1Di.png
http://i.imgur.com/qR3PAIm.png
http://i.imgur.com/Alwo5Ms.png
Barrel stamping looks like it's engraved.
http://i.imgur.com/hFJcWHS.png
Uses a different trigger.
http://i.imgur.com/r2YCgrG.png
The M4 stock uses a "shinier" plastic. (LE6920 top, Expanse bottom)
http://i.imgur.com/7Gzjibw.png
Grip also has a shinier plastic. (LE6920 left, Expanse right)
http://i.imgur.com/D7MAs8Z.png
http://i.imgur.com/RuRCPal.png
http://i.imgur.com/iS4QiXK.png
Bolt carrier is FA but doesn't have the "C" stamp.
http://i.imgur.com/gy1Hjcn.png
Bolt carrier appears to be chrome lined.
http://i.imgur.com/tYWckcA.png
Gas key staked (Expanse left, LE6920 right)
http://i.imgur.com/gAjJFs8.png
Bolt MPC (LE6920 left, Expanse right)
http://i.imgur.com/x3i64Pb.png
Feed ramps (LE6920 left, Expanse right)
http://i.imgur.com/wnPOC7X.png
Has the "4" and "S" stamps on the barrel extension. I noticed that instead of the gray coating found in the 6920, it's more of a smooth black/purple coating.
http://i.imgur.com/WYdDvM1.png
Barrel profile is thicker (LE6920 left, Expanse right)
http://i.imgur.com/xx5D0hA.png
I couldn't find a date stamp on the barrel.
Buffer isn't H/H2.
http://i.imgur.com/9e1h7T7.png
Hand guards uses single heat shields.
http://i.imgur.com/rCMbuat.png
The cage number on the stock is P&S Products. I have seen their stocks on recent Colt 6920s also. Wonder why the lack of Colt markings on the bolt carrier and upper receiver?
Eurodriver
02-06-16, 16:06
Thanks for the pics.
Wouldn't economies of scale dictate that all the non-standard parts would actually cost more than simply making the 6920 less expensive? I wonder what the demand elasticity of the 6920 is.
The cage number on the stock is P&S Products. I have seen their stocks on recent Colt 6920s also. Wonder why the lack of Colt markings on the bolt carrier and upper receiver?
The upper doesn't have M4 near the gas tube also.
Thanks for sharing and the comparing
It has the scan label on the lower, now everyone is gonna want one. :sarcastic:
Handguard cap is also missing the M203 notches. Not a big deal since you are unlikely to need to mount one, but it's just odd that they would source so many alternate parts. There is not going to be any difference in the cost of those parts, but there is a cost in sourcing and stocking different parts. It leads me to believe they are outsourcing some of this rifle.
Handguard cap is also missing the M203 notches. Not a big deal since you are unlikely to need to mount one, but it's just odd that they would source so many alternate parts. There is not going to be any difference in the cost of those parts, but there is a cost in sourcing and stocking different parts. It leads me to believe they are outsourcing some of this rifle.
I don't have a 6720 to compare but I remember that the end cap are similar to the ones on the Expanse. But I agree with you, on the justification on using alternate parts. However, we cannot compare the Expanse directly with the 6920 exclusively, but with all the rifles Colt offers.
Thanks for this info. I honestly think this was a mistake for Colt. I just don't see it being a commercial success and its probably going to devalue their standard products. Those who don't know literally think Colt is worse than Bushmaster and DPMS and that they are just expensive because of the name. They're the "flawless fit and finish" crowd and from the looks of it this is definitely not going to appeal to them when its sitting next to a shiny looking RRA. They don't know why a castle nut needs to be staked or what magnetic particle inspection is they just know that this one is splotchy and gray and that one is slick and black. Those who do know, know that this one doesn't have a chrome lined barrel and that the buffer isn't right and will wonder why the upper receiver and bolt carrier aren't stamped.
If you don't mind, what did you pay for the Expanse?
The above post is correct, sadly.............The fit & finish uninformed crowd isn't going to like this offering because it doesn't look pretty. They may pass this up for a darker in color DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA because that's what they compare when looking for an AR, not things that actually matter.
If you don't mind, what did you pay for the Expanse?
$700 FTF.
Looking at the parts on it, I'm not really sure what makes this better than most mid-tier rifles in that same price range.
I can't wait to see a Molon level accuracy (technically precision) test of the Expanse barrel. With it being a Colt, having the thicker profile, and an unlined bore, I would honestly expect it to shoot right along side the SOCOM barrel he tested.
Can a Colt expert tell me if the barrel is HPT/MPI, and if I'm correct in assuming that both the Expanse and 6920 bolts saying "MPC" means they are the same?
Looking at the parts on it, I'm not really sure what makes this better than most mid-tier rifles in that same price range.
Specs aren't everything. Build/assembly quality is just as important, and Colt has the track record to put together an AR that won't have some stupid shit come up down the road.
Specs aren't everything, but they're a good place to start. And Colt isn't the only company that knows how to stake a carrier key and castle nut.
..."flawless fit and finish" crowd...
What's ironic is that thinking "fit & finish" is only a cosmetic concern is just as wrong as judging fit & finish by cosmetics. The truth is, not meeting the design standards of fit & finish can have a negative impact on function. While many in the "fit & finish" crowd don't know what they're talking about, or what they should be looking for, or why fit & finish is important, they at least know it is important.
I like the Expanse. It may not have a chrome lined barrel, but it's still going to take a pile of ammo to wear it out. If the Expanse is $700 out the door and the 6920 $1000, the $300 difference is about 750 rounds. I can do a lot of shooting with 750 rounds
Other than that hammer I can't really see anything that would make me question the functionality of that gun.
The hammer missing some mass just has me questioning whether or not the gun gets light primer strikes. As long as it strikes with enough force than it shouldn't be an issue.
As for the fit and finish, I can't believe they would let ARFCOM down like that their feelings are gonna be so hurt, and still goona parade with their better than Milspec bushmaster. As for me, and I hope most others here on this site, who cares.
I can't down this rifle at the price.
What's ironic is that thinking "fit & finish" is only a cosmetic concern is just as wrong as judging fit & finish by cosmetics. The truth is, not meeting the design standards of fit & finish can have a negative impact on function. While many in the "fit & finish" crowd don't know what they're talking about, or what they should be looking for, or why fit & finish is important, they at least know it is important.
I like the Expanse. It may not have a chrome lined barrel, but it's still going to take a pile of ammo to wear it out. If the Expanse is $700 out the door and the 6920 $1000, the $300 difference is about 750 rounds. I can do a lot of shooting with 750 rounds
6720 is 799$. 700$ for an expanse is a bad value by comparison.
I'd need the expanse to be 600$ or under to be a good value. I still wouldn't buy one though.
Guys,
My intentions of posting this wasn't to point out the flaws, if any, of the Expanse. The comparison photos were merely for the purpose to differentiate the two. Other than the lower receiver, and some small parts, the two are completely different rifles for a different group of users.
The Expanse at the $700 price point will not have all the goodies of the 6920...
That hammer is like the one in the 6900, that was not built by colt. Are these?
G
The Expanse at the $700 price point will not have all the goodies of the 6920...
I wouldn't expect it to, but IMO, the difference in price compared to the difference in specs does not make the Expanse a good value.
That hammer is like the one in the 6900, that was not built by colt. Are these?
The lack of Colt markings on several key parts may be a clue to the answer.
I guess Colt is following the lead of other manufacturers offering a budget priced rifle for particular crowd of shooter. The type that believe that saving 100-200 is a great thing. I have a friend that bought one the S&W budget AR's, he paid $650 then he changed the grip and the forearm and added a folding sight, now his in the gun for almost $800 so much for the budget. I personally see nothing wrong with buying a good used 6920 if you want to save some money, or saving up the extra cash for one. I just know I would not be happy with one of the budget guns....
What's ironic is that thinking "fit & finish" is only a cosmetic concern is just as wrong as judging fit & finish by cosmetics. The truth is, not meeting the design standards of fit & finish can have a negative impact on function. While many in the "fit & finish" crowd don't know what they're talking about, or what they should be looking for, or why fit & finish is important, they at least know it is important.
I like the Expanse. It may not have a chrome lined barrel, but it's still going to take a pile of ammo to wear it out. If the Expanse is $700 out the door and the 6920 $1000, the $300 difference is about 750 rounds. I can do a lot of shooting with 750 rounds
Yeah, I get that fit and finish being within spec and properly applied is important to function and I think that most buyers of the more serious brands do as well. I was referencing the gun rag line that you'll often find in reviews of Windham, Bushmaster and RRA rifles that means no play between the receivers and evenly shiny and black.
Yeah, I get that fit and finish being within spec and properly applied is important to function and I think that most buyers of the more serious brands do as well. I was referencing the gun rag line that you'll often find in reviews of Windham, Bushmaster and RRA rifles that means no play between the receivers and evenly shiny and black.
Coincidentally, the Expanse I got today does not wobble at all compared to my other 6920 and AR15A4.
6720 is 799$
...and it's in stock. But the Expanse was $700 out the door. The 6720 is $800 before shipping and transfer fee, Final cost for the 6720 will be anywhere from $850 to $900. Now we're down from 750 to between 250 to 375 rounds of ammo. Good rifle, but not as much shooting.
I've been thinking of getting a 6933 when they come back in stock. It would need a replacement barrel, but I could SBR the 6720 and get it going sooner...
That hammer reminds me of something from Anderson Arms.
Other than that hammer I can't really see anything that would make me question the functionality of that gun.
The hammer missing some mass just has me questioning whether or not the gun gets light primer strikes. As long as it strikes with enough force than it shouldn't be an issue.
As for the fit and finish, I can't believe they would let ARFCOM down like that their feelings are gonna be so hurt, and still goona parade with their better than Milspec bushmaster. As for me, and I hope most others here on this site, who cares.
I can't down this rifle at the price.
Livefreeordie92
02-07-16, 05:29
37597
That hammer reminds me of something from Anderson Arms.
Like that one on their website? Only difference is that it's been notched.
Thanks for the pics.
Wouldn't economies of scale dictate that all the non-standard parts would actually cost more than simply making the 6920 less expensive? I wonder what the demand elasticity of the 6920 is.
If parts weren't sourced (but were instead manufactured), or in small quantities it might. But apparently everything but the lower and the bolt are bought and probably assembled on a contract somewhere else. I'd assume that colt sent lowers complete, minus the FCG, to somebody to put together with the cheaper stuff we see in the rifle.
Just a cursory glance so I'm sure I've missed something.
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$700 FTF.
Same price as an OEM-1. Between the two, the OEM-1 is the obvious, no-brainer choice.
This is not a great move on Colt's part.
Some more pictures:
http://i.imgur.com/Rii56O3.png
http://i.imgur.com/Z6ouY2F.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/06D5Ah8.png
I guess I'll confirm my newb status by asking what might be a dumb question. Why no f/a and dust cover?
Same price as an OEM-1. Between the two, the OEM-1 is the obvious, no-brainer choice.
This is not a great move on Colt's part.
That's for us, the OEM is for gun guys, I can get a couple OEMs and put together complete guns without having to buy a single accessory. We have the spare parts to make those right.
Gun guys aren't the Target demographic for this gun. This gun is for the weekend shooters who want to go out and find a cheap A.R. for the first time by going to look at this gun and see a complete A.R. and they're going to look at the OEM and think it needs a bunch of work and it's not worth it. If you knew nothing about guns and you saw the expanse next to the OEM which would you choose? The complete gun? Or the gun that needs parts for $100 more? As far as they know all ARs are the same. No reason to buy that Daniel DEFENSE or BCM next to a $700 out the door AR.
People are hating on this gun, but I think they did it right. This is for the guy who is gonna shoot it once or twice, and own it just so he can say he has an AR. This is for the entry AR guy who doesn't know.
Colt gave us a gun in the OEM.
Colt have Bubba a gun with the expanse.
That hammer reminds me of something from Anderson Arms.
Maybe the rifle is lube-free and it can be washed in the bath tub!! [emoji39]
I guess I'll confirm my newb status by asking what might be a dumb question. Why no f/a and dust cover?
Same question. What's up the forward assist? Why put spot there but not include the part?
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Eurodriver
02-07-16, 12:25
That's for us, the OEM is for gun guys, I can get a couple OEMs and put together complete guns without having to buy a single accessory. We have the spare parts to make those right.
Gun guys aren't the Target demographic for this gun. This gun is for the weekend shooters who want to go out and find a cheap A.R. for the first time by going to look at this gun and see a complete A.R. and they're going to look at the OEM and think it needs a bunch of work and it's not worth it.
People are hating on this gun, but I think they did it right. This is for the guy who is gonna shoot it once or twice, and own it just so he can say he has an AR. This is for the entry AR guy who doesn't know.
Colt gave us a gun in the OEM.
Colt have Bubba a gun with the expanse.
Exactly. This thread is full of dumb. "No 4150 CMV MPI HPT CL Barrel? Stupid."
I don't understand why some in this thread cannot understand that this is a marketing move by Colt. People on this forum spend too much time around guns and gun people, and not enough time around people who buy an AR because its "Cool". They don't give a **** about barrel steel. They are all the same. Price matters - that's it.
Now they can get a Colt instead of a Bushmaster. Or rather, now Colt can get their money instead of Bushmaster.
That's for us, the OEM is for gun guys, I can get a couple OEMs and put together complete guns without having to buy a single accessory. We have the spare parts to make those right.
Gun guys aren't the Target demographic for this gun. This gun is for the weekend shooters who want to go out and find a cheap A.R. for the first time by going to look at this gun and see a complete A.R. and they're going to look at the OEM and think it needs a bunch of work and it's not worth it. If you knew nothing about guns and you saw the expanse next to the OEM which would you choose? The complete gun? Or the gun that needs parts for $100 more? As far as they know all ARs are the same. No reason to buy that Daniel DEFENSE or BCM next to a $700 out the door AR.
People are hating on this gun, but I think they did it right. This is for the guy who is gonna shoot it once or twice, and own it just so he can say he has an AR. This is for the entry AR guy who doesn't know.
Colt gave us a gun in the OEM.
Colt have Bubba a gun with the expanse.
This exact point was expressed by others in the previous Expanse thread. Those that want to hear it do. It seems to bounce off quite a few others.
6720 is 799$. 700$ for an expanse is a bad value by comparison.
I'd need the expanse to be 600$ or under to be a good value. I still wouldn't buy one though.
They were $799, I need to ask Grant if the price is the same
I'm on the list for one @G&R
Cost savings. Pretty common on these entry-level type guns. At least colt built theirs on a standard receiver so you can add them if you want to.
steelheadr
02-07-16, 15:24
For $700 it looks like a nice AR, Colt will probably sell a lot of them.
StevieJ309
02-07-16, 16:51
Maybe the rifle is lube-free and it can be washed in the bath tub!! [emoji39]
Same question. What's up the forward assist? Why put spot there but not include the part?
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I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but I believe the idea was to allow the consumer to install one later on down the road if they choose. Same goes for the dust cover.
Wouldn't it be something if this just ends up being an Anderson built gun on a colt lower.
I guess I'll confirm my newb status by asking what might be a dumb question. Why no f/a and dust cover?
Generally unneeded on a sporter rifle, also, if u want them, you can install them.
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I guess I'll confirm my newb status by asking what might be a dumb question. Why no f/a and dust cover?
It's a cost saving measure by Colt as mentioned in the Youtube video when the expanse was introduced.
I don't remember exactly where I saw it, but I believe the idea was to allow the consumer to install one later on down the road if they choose. Same goes for the dust cover.
Yep I think that's the idea.
Never used F/A in my life. Hell, now that I think about it, my .308 doesn't have a f/a. I doubt that big bastard needs it tho.
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wolf_walker
02-07-16, 23:33
Two types of people will buy this, maybe three.
One, the ideal, will buy it because it's cheap, not even because it's a Colt but they will brag about it later,
and seldom shoot the thing and not care about it's flaws since it isn't very hard to make an AR that shoots.
The second will buy it because it says Colt and they can afford it and expect it to be mil-spec and it's available, even if they don't yet
know what mil-spec is they trust the name. And I feel sorry for these folks. As they will learn later what they are missing
and end up with basically a lower to build from.
The third is the OP who bought one to show us all what's in it, and a big thank you to him. :)
Colt is showing it's faceless profit driven heart imo, there are better men I'd rather give my money to, but I'm
not 1 or 2 above, and neither are most of you....
Exactly. This thread is full of dumb. "No 4150 CMV MPI HPT CL Barrel? Stupid."
I don't understand why some in this thread cannot understand that this is a marketing move by Colt. People on this forum spend too much time around guns and gun people, and not enough time around people who buy an AR because its "Cool". They don't give a **** about barrel steel. They are all the same. Price matters - that's it.
Now they can get a Colt instead of a Bushmaster. Or rather, now Colt can get their money instead of Bushmaster.
I understand that this is a marketing move by Colt, but its a bad one. The people they're targeting don't want to buy a Colt instead of a Bushmaster. They've spent years looking at slick DPMS ads and hearing gun store idiots telling them Bushmasters are better anyway. For $700 this rifle might sell if its the only one on the rack, but when non-AR junkies pick it up and hold it next to another AR they're going to see the missing (not deleted) port door and forward assist and think its "typical shitty Colt quality control." A Smith and Wesson M&P Sport II comes from a company they know, looks like a nicely finished rifle and actually has those external features for the same price. The Sport I didn't have those features but, rather than make them look forgotten they were fully deleted so it still looked like a finished rifle.
I understand that this is a marketing move by Colt, but its a bad one. The people they're targeting don't want to buy a Colt instead of a Bushmaster. They've spent years looking at slick DPMS ads and hearing gun store idiots telling them Bushmasters are better anyway. For $700 this rifle might sell if its the only one on the rack, but when non-AR junkies pick it up and hold it next to another AR they're going to see the missing (not deleted) port door and forward assist and think its "typical shitty Colt quality control." A Smith and Wesson M&P Sport II comes from a company they know, looks like a nicely finished rifle and actually has those external features for the same price. The Sport I didn't have those features but, rather than make them look forgotten they were fully deleted so it still looked like a finished rifle.
Good point.
They were $799, I need to ask Grant if the price is the same
I'm on the list for one @G&R
In stock at G&R, 10$ shipping, 799$ for the rifle. http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Despite what some here tout, this is a bad move on Colt's part. And I doubt Colt can effectively compete with other bottom-of-the-barrel ARs, of which the Colt Expanse clearly is one, as this rifle's specs make it obviously clear it was assembled by an Anderson-like outfit, with Anderson-like parts. If anything, it will soil the Colt name, and devalue existing quality rifles.
If this is such a great idea, perhaps we'll see a BCM Budget carbine in the near future... Not.
Well this thread has gone full circle now. The same points from the other thread are still being echoed here.
Guys, the Expanse is just another option that Colt is offering. Like the OEM 1 and 2 were last year which brought along its own shit storm of opinions. Guess what, they sold at MSRP or above.
Something no one has mentioned about this rifle that will affect its success or lack thereof more than the specs is Colt's shitty distribution strategy. The target buyers for this rifle won't go out of their way to find one because they aren't specifically looking for it, and my experience is that Colt is very poorly represented in most big box gun retailers and LGS. Casual AR buyers end up with Bushmaster, S&Ws, etc. mainly because that's what you can buy at Cabelas, Gander, etc.
In stock at G&R, 10$ shipping, 799$ for the rifle. http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6720
Thanks, didn't get a chance to call Grant yet.
Despite what some here tout, this is a bad move on Colt's part. And I doubt Colt can effectively compete with other bottom-of-the-barrel ARs, of which the Colt Expanse clearly is one, as this rifle's specs make it obviously clear it was assembled by an Anderson-like outfit, with Anderson-like parts. If anything, it will soil the Colt name, and devalue existing quality rifles.
If this is such a great idea, perhaps we'll see a BCM Budget carbine in the near future... Not.
Did the colt competition line devalue the 6920, causing people to stop buying them?
Or do people still buy the 6920?
Did the colt competition line devalue the 6920, causing people to stop buying them?
Or do people still buy the 6920?
The competition line was distinctly different from the 6920 line. The Expanse is not.
Did the colt competition line devalue the 6920, causing people to stop buying them?
Or do people still buy the 6920?
Colt competition did not use an actual Colt lower, much less marked "M4 Carbine", the biggest issue I see here is the role mark. Typically this is how you would distinguish models, not here. They put a bunch of crap on a good lower receiver, "good" may be a loose term here, I'd honestly expect it is all of their reject lowers for their real rifles.
So its a big deal, now on the used market it will be tougher to tell what your getting. At least with the OEMS you still knew all but the furniture was good, and the furniture is easy to identify.
Generally unneeded on a sporter rifle, also, if u want them, you can install them.
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It's a cost saving measure by Colt as mentioned in the Youtube video when the expanse was introduced.
Not trying to argue the point, but really, what kind of cost savings doe's this really allow? I would rather expect that the uninformed entry level purchaser would think they were being shorted somehow, and buy the BM, etc. because some salesman said "look, this has the f/a and dust cover that this one doesn't". Again, imho, if this model is aimed at "bubba", I wouldn't expect them to have the tools or skills to disassemble, install and reassemble.
Not trying to argue the point, but really, what kind of cost savings doe's this really allow? I would rather expect that the uninformed entry level purchaser would think they were being shorted somehow, and buy the BM, etc. because some salesman said "look, this has the f/a and dust cover that this one doesn't". Again, imho, if this model is aimed at "bubba", I wouldn't expect them to have the tools or skills to disassemble, install and reassemble.
Maybe you underestimate "Bubba". They got reel book lernin outside jersey, ya no!
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Gunnar da Wolf
02-08-16, 20:08
Buffer isn't H/H2.
http://i.imgur.com/9e1h7T7.png
I see Colt is still horrified at the thought that someone might drop an auto sear in one of their rifles so they use the lower with a dike in it.
That hammer looks kind of like the one on my JP single stage target trigger from 20+ years ago.
Really most entry level users will put a dust cover engraved with "Molon Labe" or "This End Toward Zombies ->" on this rifle and do without the F/A. It will work fine for banging away one range day every six months or so and maybe more people will learn to like the AR15 and all it's evil features.
There are a few companies out there (not necessarily gun co) that will actually listen to and solicit the advise and recommendations of the people that actually buy their products. I don't think Colt is listening. FN had a great idea with their military collector series, it's unfortunate they didn't do it right all the way but a good idea anyway. That is what Colt needs to do, they need to capitalize on their military weapon manufacturing expertise, all the years they have been making M16's, AR15's. They should be capitalizing on the the fact they have been making them longer and better than anybody else. They should be putting out civilian copy's of the different military rifle variants. They should stay away from the varmint and competition type guns, and stick to the military/police variants. In my opinion putting the Colt logo on these lower budget rifles diminish the Colt name, if they want to target a certain buyer market they should introduce a separate series of rifles much like Weatherby's Vanguard rifles which is their lower priced product as compared to the Mark 5 rifle. These are just some ideas and opinions and I'm sure there are better ones out there but if Colt wont listen what can you do.....
ColtSeavers
02-09-16, 15:38
I think that the two main lines of thought regarding the Expanse are:
1: Who cares, Colt's going to do what Colt's going to do. I know better, want better and will try to steer others towards better.
2: How much resource is put into this rifle line by Colt, it's still priced too high for the 'intended target consumers' and why the hell didn't they just instead use those resources to drop the prices of existing 'gold standard' rifles.
Personally, I'm of the first line of thought, but I do agree with the second as well.
WolfsburgBob
03-01-16, 14:49
Making some observations ...
Colt, in my opinion based on close examination of several 'Expanse" rifles, is is using what appear to me to be Anderson Manufacturing lowers in production cycles for their CE1000 M4 Expanse line.
I have seen Expanse M4 lowers that exhibit what I call traditional Colt manufacturing cues with 'LE' serial prefixes and Expanse units with the 'CE' serial prefix that do not. The metal finishing around the trigger area was my first red-flag. The roll markings and the text font style in the application are not traditional on the CE rifles
I also do not think Colt assembles every CE1000 M4 Expanse in Hartford.
What I beliece to be traditional Colt M4 receiver on a CE1000 ...
http://i68.tinypic.com/2iivaly.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2hmj1ar.jpg
What appears to me to be an Anderson Manufacturing Colt M4 lower on a CE 1000 ...
http://i68.tinypic.com/2zyd0xt.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/ri9czl.jpg
;)
Damn, the "Expanse" is marked .223 unlike the 6920 and others 5.56mm & Colt Defense vs Colts Manufacturing
WTF ?
WolfsburgBob
03-01-16, 15:02
Damn, the "Expanse" is marked .223 unlike the 6920 and others 5.56mm
WTF ?
Please re-read my post.
Please re-read my post.
Did, going by the images.
My 6920 looks like the 1st image. 5.56 and Colt Defense.
What am I getting wrong?
WolfsburgBob
03-01-16, 15:15
Did, going by the images.
My 6920 looks like the 1st image. 5.56 and Colt Defense.
What am I getting wrong?
In my text I explain that my observations and photos taken are all from Colt CE1000 "Expanse" model rifles.
The pictures are all 'Expanses' , no LE6920s mentioned or used in my post though the top receicver appears to be like the receiver used on a 6920 ... it was an Expanse.
Note the hammers!
;)
OK, got it now.
So basically "some" are getting Colt lower receivers and others not
Parts same in either.
WolfsburgBob
03-01-16, 15:28
OK, got it now.
So basically "some" are getting Colt lower receivers and others not
Parts same in either.
It appears to me, given my experience with manufacturing and supply in several venues, that Colt may have supplied ON HAND in house produced and marked M4 5.56mm receivers with a "LE" serial range that blends into the LE6920 range then sometome later the "CE" serial range starting at CE00000001 marked .223 came on line ... with for what I would bet the house on to be ... an Anderson Manufacturing receiver.
Just my $.02
;)
Sounds logical. Too bad, they kind of did a bait and switch
with the roll markings. You can expect the lower level FCG
But who wants .223 on the side of a Colt Carbine
wolf_walker
03-01-16, 18:15
Wonder how many people are involved with selecting components and layout on something like this with a company like Colt or FN. I envision many emails and meetings and memos and presentations.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Making some observations ...
Colt, in my opinion based on close examination of several 'Expanse" rifles, is is using what appear to me to be Anderson Manufacturing lowers in production cycles for their CE1000 M4 Expanse line.
I have seen Expanse M4 lowers that exhibit what I call traditional Colt manufacturing cues with 'LE' serial prefixes and Expanse units with the 'CE' serial prefix that do not. The metal finishing around the trigger area was my first red-flag. The roll markings and the text font style in the application are not traditional on the CE rifles
I also do not think Colt assembles every CE1000 M4 Expanse in Hartford.
What I beliece to be traditional Colt M4 receiver on a CE1000 ...
http://i68.tinypic.com/2iivaly.jpg
http://i65.tinypic.com/2hmj1ar.jpg
What appears to me to be an Anderson Manufacturing Colt M4 lower on a CE 1000 ...
http://i68.tinypic.com/2zyd0xt.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/ri9czl.jpg
;)
Markings look engraved as opposed to roll marked.
Looking at the magazine catch on both of those lowers, they look the same as the ones that come in Anderson LPKs without the rod extending through the plate.
I just bit on one of these locally. Is it a steal of a deal? Hardly. Not a bad deal, but there are better and worse ones out there. I have an extra forward assist, port door assembly in a box, m4 handguard as well. Was planning to install a free floating handguard but will just go with the m4 type and call it good. I bit on a whim. My next will be a 6920 oem 2 from grt. Given my current work load and schedule, I don't have much time to shoot. I highly doubt that I'll wear the gun out. Thank you for creating this thread and the comparison.
Chatterbox
03-16-16, 08:45
Sounds logical. Too bad, they kind of did a bait and switch
with the roll markings. You can expect the lower level FCG
But who wants .223 on the side of a Colt Carbine
Nobody. But also 95% of Colt Expanse target market don't care.
...and it's in stock. But the Expanse was $700 out the door. The 6720 is $800 before shipping and transfer fee, Final cost for the 6720 will be anywhere from $850 to $900. Now we're down from 750 to between 250 to 375 rounds of ammo. Good rifle, but not as much shooting.
I've been thinking of getting a 6933 when they come back in stock. It would need a replacement barrel, but I could SBR the 6720 and get it going sooner...
Just have the bbl cut to 11.5"
Same price as an OEM-1. Between the two, the OEM-1 is the obvious, no-brainer choice.
This is not a great move on Colt's part.
I'm not interested either.
I guess I'll confirm my newb status by asking what might be a dumb question. Why no f/a and dust cover?
It's to save money. The FA and the dust cover aren't really necessary. Especially the FA.
I had a BCM 16" midlength upper on a JD Machine (Valkyrie) lower and recently had a need for an entry level AR. The Colt Expanse was a no brainer since I could put the Expanse upper on the Valkyrie lower ... and the Bravo Company midlength on the LE rollmarked Colt lower.
Bravo, Colt!
I now have my Bravo Colt midlength that I've always wanted and a good entry level AR instead of a DPMS Sportical. For about the same money. Yes, thanks, Colt! Your Expanse is all right by me, I got my Colt midlength early. :D
Got some of the Colt Expanse M4's in today. Looked them over and the upper receiver is a standard Colt M4 and the lower is a standard LE6920 lower (FYI).
C4
WolfsburgBob
04-28-16, 11:54
Got some of the Colt Expanse M4's in today. Looked them over and the upper receiver is a standard Colt M4 and the lower is a standard LE6920 lower (FYI).
C4
What about the barrel ... etc ... etc? ... bigger pics?
What about the barrel ... etc ... etc? ... bigger pics?
Barrel is the more common "Gov profile" 1/7 no chrome lining. F marked fsb, a2 flash suppressor. Is a colt barrel though.
There are a few companies out there (not necessarily gun co) that will actually listen to and solicit the advise and recommendations of the people that actually buy their products. I don't think Colt is listening. FN had a great idea with their military collector series, it's unfortunate they didn't do it right all the way but a good idea anyway. That is what Colt needs to do, they need to capitalize on their military weapon manufacturing expertise, all the years they have been making M16's, AR15's. They should be capitalizing on the the fact they have been making them longer and better than anybody else. They should be putting out civilian copy's of the different military rifle variants. They should stay away from the varmint and competition type guns, and stick to the military/police variants. In my opinion putting the Colt logo on these lower budget rifles diminish the Colt name, if they want to target a certain buyer market they should introduce a separate series of rifles much like Weatherby's Vanguard rifles which is their lower priced product as compared to the Mark 5 rifle. These are just some ideas and opinions and I'm sure there are better ones out there but if Colt wont listen what can you do.....
Colt spent decades making sure civilians were limited on access to military features. If not for the loss of a contract, it is likely the 6920 would have proprietary fire control parts, screwed together upper & lower, and who knows what other oddities.
Yet plenty of people still bought them and still do.
Looks like the old style selector where the lever is not extended to the axis.
Know a few people who have the Anderson LPK's with the lightened hammer and do not recall any failures to fire.
Yet plenty of people still bought them and still do.
True and a fair number of them bought them for name alone. Not seeing them at shows much these days, but always found it interesting how many 30+ year old SP1's that were unfired with a tale of how good they were.
Absolutely no argument. Given the state of the market today, if you buy a colt, it's because of the name. Plenty of other choices out there.
What about the barrel ... etc ... etc? ... bigger pics?
The barrel is just a standard Govt weight barrel.
C4
Doc Safari
04-28-16, 14:45
LOVE the skinny handguards, but I'd have to have the ejection port cover and forward assist (Okay, I'm a purist, dammit).
I've looked for those skinny handguards online. Anybody have a source? Genuine Colt would be great. :cool:
LOVE the skinny handguards, but I'd have to have the ejection port cover and forward assist (Okay, I'm a purist, dammit).
I've looked for those skinny handguards online. Anybody have a source? Genuine Colt would be great. :cool:
Those look like very generic carbine hand guards based on the heat shields snapping on to the nipples. Should be able to get equivalent about anywhere.
Usually functional, but usually Colt CAR attached with a tab in a slot like the M4 & M16A2 hand guards like these:
http://bpullignwolnet.dotster.com/retroblackrifle/sitebuilder/images/CarbHndGards-sm-208x155.jpg
Hand guards look like another reason to think Anderson:
http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/a2-style-hand-guard-carbine-length-for-223/
Are those skinny CAR handguards an actual Colt item, or some know off crap Colt put on there?
I am in bad need of some real Colt ones for my retro build, it would be awesome if they were available again.
Are those skinny CAR handguards an actual Colt item, or some know off crap Colt put on there?
I am in bad need of some real Colt ones for my retro build, it would be awesome if they were available again.
Look just like Anderson hand guards.
http://www.andersonrifles.com/product/a2-style-hand-guard-carbine-length-for-223/
Got some of the Colt Expanse M4's in today. Looked them over and the upper receiver is a standard Colt M4 and the lower is a standard LE6920 lower (FYI).
C4
Colt Expanse I played with at my LGS had a Cerro-Forge (keyhole) upper with no C mark.
Alnamvet68
04-29-16, 09:33
Got some of the Colt Expanse M4's in today. Looked them over and the upper receiver is a standard Colt M4 and the lower is a standard LE6920 lower (FYI).
C4
If this is the case (standard Colt M4 upper and LE6920 lower), then I would have to say the Expanse might turn out to be a successful entry in the lower priced AR15 wars. The question I have though, is it rollmarks 5.56 with the LE serial number, or is it the. 223 stamp with the CE serial number.
As a side note, I think it's great that G&R is offering to upgrade the Expanse with the FA and dust cover for a nominal fee. The offer to upgrade the buffer to a H buffer is the icing on the cake.
I actually just sold mine this morning. Calling up g and r today for a 6920 oem if a local deal falls through.
Colt Expanse I played with at my LGS had a Cerro-Forge (keyhole) upper with no C mark.
You sure it was an expanse and not a LE6900?
If this is the case (standard Colt M4 upper and LE6920 lower), then I would have to say the Expanse might turn out to be a successful entry in the lower priced AR15 wars. The question I have though, is it rollmarks 5.56 with the LE serial number, or is it the. 223 stamp with the CE serial number.
As a side note, I think it's great that G&R is offering to upgrade the Expanse with the FA and dust cover for a nominal fee. The offer to upgrade the buffer to a H buffer is the icing on the cake.
Did you look at the pics that we posted on page 4? The roll mark is 556 and LE Serial #.
The upgrades are for people that have to have a FA and dust cover. IMHO, neither are needed.
C4
Alnamvet68
04-29-16, 12:16
Did you look at the pics that we posted on page 4? The roll mark is 556 and LE Serial #.
The upgrades are for people that have to have a FA and dust cover. IMHO, neither are needed.
C4
I saw the pics, and also saw the pics of the CE serial numbered lower with the .223 roll mark...that is, at best, confusing to me. As for your upgrades, I was simply applauding the effort to add these items for those who would rather have it done then do it themselves.
I saw the pics, and also saw the pics of the CE serial numbered lower with the .223 roll mark...that is, at best, confusing to me. As for your upgrades, I was simply applauding the effort to add these items for those who would rather have it done then do it themselves.
That was probably the first batch and they have now gone to (basically) a LE6920. Not sure why.
C4
Is the expanse now the same as a 6920? Lower, bcg etc?!
Is the expanse now the same as a 6920? Lower, bcg etc?!
As far as I can tell, the lower (stripped) and the upper receiver are the same (less the forward assist/dust card). I will have to get more info on the BCG. The barrel is not a 6920 barrel.
C4
As far as I can tell, the lower (stripped) and the upper receiver are the same (less the forward assist/dust card). I will have to get more info on the BCG. The barrel is not a 6920 barrel.
C4
Roll marks look the same, but the serial number and some other marks are laser engraved.
You sure it was an expanse and not a LE6900?
LGS ordered the Expanse rifles and they arrived with slim fore-ends, no F/A, and no dust cover. I did make a mistake - the first two to arrive had no C mark and circle forge-mark. The two that arrived later this past week were Cerro-Forge (keyhole) and C marked, but also had T-marks on the rail. They also had an "M4" mark on the front of the receiver face.
These seems like parts-bin guns.
Roll marks look the same, but the serial number and some other marks are laser engraved.
The one I looked at didn't.
These seems like parts-bin guns.
Not sure what that means, but from what I know, these were a planned (read thought out) AR meant to compete with the S&W SPORT.
C4
teliferous
05-02-16, 09:11
Anyone know if the receiver extension is 6061 or 7075?
Anyone know if the receiver extension is 6061 or 7075?
7075
C4
The one I looked at didn't.
Variable depth Colt logo and "M4 Carbine" script, but even depth on the serial and Colt Defense marking.
Not sure what that means, but from what I know, these were a planned (read thought out) AR meant to compete with the S&W SPORT.
Talking about the random uppers - different forge houses, some C marked others not, some T-marked others not, etc.
Variable depth Colt logo and "M4 Carbine" script, but even depth on the serial and Colt Defense marking.
We verified that they are the same lower used in the 6920.
Talking about the random uppers - different forge houses, some C marked others not, some T-marked others not, etc.
The forging houses are normal for all Colts. We looked through some more of our guns and they are consistent. So that tell me that the earlier ones in this thread were a first batch and then Colt switched many of the components.
C4
I've seen a couple of these and they have not been consistent either. Honestly I'm not impressed for the price point, especially with some of the QC issues I've had and seen with Colt lately. They just seem to be a step behind these days.
Alnamvet68
05-03-16, 14:03
Curious if the Expanse has an H buffer, or a standard lightweight buffer.
I've seen a couple of these and they have not been consistent either. Honestly I'm not impressed for the price point, especially with some of the QC issues I've had and seen with Colt lately. They just seem to be a step behind these days.
They certainly are not for everyone (especially the higher end buyer). I will tell you though, 80% of the AR buying populace wants a gun below $700. I would take this gun over a S&W Sport (its main competition).
What QC issues are you seeing?
C4
I'm curious about the qc issues as well.
They certainly are not for everyone (especially the higher end buyer). I will tell you though, 80% of the AR buying populace wants a gun below $700. I would take this gun over a S&W Sport (its main competition).
What QC issues are you seeing?
C4
How does this compare to the Sport since its seems designed to be a direct competitor, what are the noticeable differences?
Twist rate, no provision for dust cover or forward assist.
Twist rate, no provision for dust cover or forward assist.
If you're talking about the S&W Sport II not having a dust cover/forward assist, then you're wrong. The S&W comes with a dust cover and forward assist already installed. I handled one recently and it was very nice. The S&W Sport has 1/9 barrel 4140 while the Colt Expanse has a 1/7 4150 barrel.
Thought he asked about the sport 1. It comes with a magpul back up sight also.
Alnamvet68
05-03-16, 18:58
How does this compare to the Sport since its seems designed to be a direct competitor, what are the noticeable differences?
I'll start with the obvious differences, when compared side by side with the S&W Sport II:
MSRP:
Colt - $699.00
S&W - $749.00
Standard Equipment:
Colt - No installed FA or dustcover, but can be user installed. No bayonet lug. No MBUS sight. Unlined 1:7 4150 CMV steel barrel. Roll mark stampings/etching was uneven with variable depth, and serial number was not stamped in a straight line, with some numbers higher and/or lower next to the others (this was on the example I saw at my LGS. Carbine length plastic handguard appeared generic mil-spec with heat shields. Collapsing butt stock appeared to be sourced from the same manufacturer as S&W's.
S&W Sport II: FA, dustcover standard. Bayonet lug. Magpul MBUS rear sight. Unlined, but QPC/Melonite like treated 1:9 twist 4140 steel barrel. Logo stampings and serial number were perfectly done. Carbine length plastic handguard with no heat shield. Butt stock identical to Colt's, with exception of S&W logo. Lastly, the S&W uppers and lowers are forged in house, with a one piece trigger guard friendly to those who wear gloves.
My LGS is a stickler for presenting his firearms in as perfect condition as possible. Both the S&W and Colt came out of their boxes with grease stains/ runs that would not clean off with just a silicon cloth. My LGS used the Flitz Tactical Matte Spray cleaner which left both rifle surfaces perfectly degreased with a flat finish that revealed any flaws present on the anodizing. The S&W had no flaws, while the Colt had some goofy shade differences, as well as some rough spots around the mag well. Some of these flaws were temporarily mitigated with an application of silicon via a soft cloth, which left a nice soft patina on both rifles, the S&W noticeably darker than the Colt.
One last thing, both rifles had identical buffers...I suspect these were sourced from the same supplier. I think that's it.
man...the BCG that comes with the Colt Expanse should be further differentiated, visually, from the standard Colt M4/M16 Colt BCG. I just received what should be a Colt M4/M16 BCG. Upon inspection, the extractor is stamped with "CE" on the underneath side (never EVER seen that marking on a legit Colt 6920 bolt/extractor). I noticed that the Colt expanse in this thread has an extractor that is stamped with said markings :/ . The fact that both the 6920 and expanse bolts are etched with "MPC" doesn't help the confusion. My new bolt is also etched with "MPC". My new bolt also possesses the copper washed extractor spring that both the expanse bolt and the 6920/m16 bolt come with. Finally, my carrier is not stamped with a "C", as all the colt M16 carriers I've seen have been. Instead, it has a fairly sloppy etched "C" where the clean stamped "C" usually appears. I suppose its possible that my new BCG is good to go, but i really hate i have to wonder. The CE stamped extractor is of particular concern. The fact that a poorly etched C on the carrier is the only thing that differentiates my supposed Colt M16 carrier from the expanse carrier doesn't inspire confidence. I wish colt would have made the two BCG's easily identifiable.
The bolt carrier is not Colt. The bolt maybe, but I think they ship to Texas as stripped bolts. The staking on my carrier didn't look right at all. Given that these are the budget line it wouldn't surprise me if colt simply boxes up stripped lowers, barrels, bolts and shipped them to the other plant for assembly using other mfg parts. I looked through it and came to the conclusion that it simply wouldn't meet my desired goals.
The expanse intrigued me for a bit but the more I read, I think for the money I would spend the extra $25 or so and get the OEM 1 or 2 because I already KNOW I would swap out the stock, hand guards etc anyway. I'd rather have the known Colt parts. It's almost like Colt put their name on a lesser rifle.
man...the BCG that comes with the Colt Expanse should be further differentiated, visually, from the standard Colt M4/M16 Colt BCG. I just received what should be a Colt M4/M16 BCG. Upon inspection, the extractor is stamped with "CE" on the underneath side (never EVER seen that marking on a legit Colt 6920 bolt/extractor). I noticed that the Colt expanse in this thread has an extractor that is stamped with said markings :/ . The fact that both the 6920 and expanse bolts are etched with "MPC" doesn't help the confusion. My new bolt is also etched with "MPC". My new bolt also possesses the copper washed extractor spring that both the expanse bolt and the 6920/m16 bolt come with. Finally, my carrier is not stamped with a "C", as all the colt M16 carriers I've seen have been. Instead, it has a fairly sloppy etched "C" where the clean stamped "C" usually appears. I suppose its possible that my new BCG is good to go, but i really hate i have to wonder. The CE stamped extractor is of particular concern. The fact that a poorly etched C on the carrier is the only thing that differentiates my supposed Colt M16 carrier from the expanse carrier doesn't inspire confidence. I wish colt would have made the two BCG's easily identifiable.
The Colt BCG's are good to go and are heat treated in house by Colt.
C4
The expanse intrigued me for a bit but the more I read, I think for the money I would spend the extra $25 or so and get the OEM 1 or 2 because I already KNOW I would swap out the stock, hand guards etc anyway. I'd rather have the known Colt parts. It's almost like Colt put their name on a lesser rifle.
Yes, it is a lesser rifle. The barrels is not to spec, there are parts missing. The FCG is differnt, no H buffer, etc. It is also cheaper with the goal of reaching the budget AR market. That market isn't going to be the vast majority of people posting and reading on this forum.
C4
Primus Pilum
05-12-16, 09:05
Poor move by colt. Devaluing their brand when they are already selling ars at historicaly low prices ($799 for a 6720, buy up and stack deep). We all know colt makes a great product but this is like KAC putting out a cheap ar. People will see it and it reflects bad on a brand built up over decades of hard use. If i was their board...no way i would put my trademark in a subpar product.
Yes, it is a lesser rifle. The barrels is not the spec, there are parts missing. The FCG is differnt, no H buffer, etc. It is also cheaper with the goal of reaching the budget AR market. That market isn't going to be the vast majority of people posting and reading on this forum.
C4
Oh I get what Colt was trying to do and from a marketing stand point, it's brilliant. People who are not as picky as some of us or simply don't know much about AR's will see them and be like DUDE it's a tier one Colt M4 like what the Army uses and snatch them up! Colt name recognition and all.
This fits its roll perfectly. Not everyone needs a $3,000.00 dollars custom AR, they need a $700.00 dollar AR and $2,300.00 worth of training! This will be a good starter rifle for a lot of people.
I recently purchased a Expanse at a dealer, the price was right, $600 plus tax, the lower had the desired 6920 5.56mm marked lower with QR code. The upper is a genuine colt marked M4 upper, the carrier does not have the "C" stamp and the bolt has just a MP etched into it instead of MPC. The barrel is marked via engraving "5.56 NATO 1/7 C" with a stamped "P" after it, not sure what the P means but otherwise it is like most other Expanses out there that are marked 5.56mm on the lower. I think this carbine makes a great plinker without breaking the bank, lets face it, I'm just shooting at paper, so this gun works just perfect for that. The magazine that came with it was the aluminum Colt marked 30rd, not the PMAG like others have reported as coming with the rifle.
The nice bonus was the dealer threw in a aluminum Colt marked 20rd magazine that was marked Cal. 5.56mm, Colt Industries, Hartford Conn U.S.A., when I went to load it at the range it would only accept 5 rds, when I opened the magazine it had some spring steel spacer in it, so this the type of magazine that came with the older Colt rifles before the ban?
Gentlemen, this is my first post about my first AR. I bought an Expanse. Mine also has the 6920 lower and upper and the MP etched bolt. The barrel is marked 5.56 NATO 1/7 C P. After reading this thread I was suspicious that I got a parts gun from some subcontractor as many people suggested, so I called Colt today and asked them. The Colt rep said that the barrel is of Colt manufacture and they do assemble this gun along side their 6920 in Hartford. I don't understand why people bash this gun. It's $700. If you want chrome lined barrels, dust covers, and forward assists, and mil-spec bolt carriers and bolts, spend another $300 and get a 6920. If you're a paper puncher like me and have no use for any of that stuff, get the Expanse. It's exactly what it's advertised to be, a starter AR. If you like it the way it is, fine. If you don't, it's in a 6920 shell and you can build whatever you want.
Sounds like a fine armament. Enjoy it. Revel in the current freedom to own it.
I suspect the bashing comes from the reality that many on this site use their weapons like I use Excel and Bloomberg Professional (for a living) but they engender the risk of death from their day-to-day not millions of USD$. I'd bash it too if I were in there role.
There seems to be an unwritten rule that a gun company can offer a better or fancier version of their products, but never a cheaper one. People never stopped complaining about the plastic triggers in Colt's economy M1991A1 Government Models, and Smith & Wesson got grilled for their "Value Line" series of 3rd Gen autos as well. Now Colt has made an economy version of the 6920 to get into the entry-level AR market, and people are bashing it because it's not a true combat-worthy 6920. Go figure.
Honestly I'm surprised nobody has bashed the OEM models yet for not including a stock or handguards.
Excellent points by both Captiva and DSK. Very true. I understand a lot of the members on this forum shoot for real and have to trust their lives with their rifles. I would never argue with any of their expertise. And for them, I give my sincerest thanks for their sacrifices.
Gentlemen, this is my first post about my first AR. I bought an Expanse. Mine also has the 6920 lower and upper and the MP etched bolt. The barrel is marked 5.56 NATO 1/7 C P. After reading this thread I was suspicious that I got a parts gun from some subcontractor as many people suggested, so I called Colt today and asked them. The Colt rep said that the barrel is of Colt manufacture and they do assemble this gun along side their 6920 in Hartford. I don't understand why people bash this gun. It's $700. If you want chrome lined barrels, dust covers, and forward assists, and mil-spec bolt carriers and bolts, spend another $300 and get a 6920. If you're a paper puncher like me and have no use for any of that stuff, get the Expanse. It's exactly what it's advertised to be, a starter AR. If you like it the way it is, fine. If you don't, it's in a 6920 shell and you can build whatever you want.
A 6920 isn't $300 more. Often times it is $150 more and if you do it right and start off with an OEM version its even closer, like 40-60. With the basic 6920 in the 800-900 range The only way I would see the Expanse as a value is if it was 500 bucks.
I would even take just about any of the competing brands $699 offerings over the Expanse since they would also be 1/7 but also chrome lined and most of the other desirable features absent on the Expanse. For example, ArmaLite is not liked on these boards but the DEF15 is available all over GB for $699 right now and I feel it compares very favorably vs the Expanse.
I would even take just about any of the competing brands $699 offerings over the Expanse
Agree, M&P Sport II has FA, dust cover and MBUS for same or less money
40504
I recently bought a colt 6920 OEM 1 for $690
I recently bought a colt 6920 OEM 1 for $690
Where? I'd buy one right now for that price. It's hard to find them in stock anywhere right now, and the cheapest one I have found is $788.
Where? I'd buy one right now for that price. It's hard to find them in stock anywhere right now, and the cheapest one I have found is $788.
Like all the other places I've seen it is out of stock, and the price is normally around 730, no idea why it was 690 when I saw one left in stock a couple weeks ago, Whittaker via a Facebook group
Like all the other places I've seen it is out of stock, and the price is normally around 730, no idea why it was 690 when I saw one left in stock a couple weeks ago, Whittaker via a Facebook group
Got my OEM2 off of GB for 730 a few weeks ago. Hell of a deal IMO. Waiting on the upper to come back from having its 10.75" URX II installed and then I will drop the MIAD and UBR on it to go along with the SSA-E I have already put on the lower and my first OEM build will be done.
FWIW, here's my latest experience with what looks to be Colt Expanse parts....
I recently ordered some components over the course of several weeks from Arms Unlimited (yeah, yeah, but G&R was out of stock). Initially I ordered a "Colt lower" which once arrived, looked to have less than standard machining compared to my other 6920s, but still, overall, was good enough. It had the QR code and was marked "M4 Carbine" with both "5.56" and a "LE" serial. It also had the light-weight hammer. I took it home and mated it with a Colt upper receiver from Brownell's. QC was not the standard I've seen with my other 6920s, and getting the rear pin in and out was tight. Still, it seems to be good enough. I also ran it on a (pre-death) Noveske upper with no issues (with a G&R/LMT hammer installed). So far, it was good enough to F1.
A few weeks later, I ordered a "Colt bolt" from Arms Unlimited (again, they had it in stock). I'm guessing this is another Expanse take off, as the extractor is marked "CE" and it's engraved "MPC," but it's VERY light, compared to my other OEM or "complete" 6920 parts/rifles I have. Slightly annoying, but as long as it holds up, when it's eventually called upon, I'll be be happy.
AU may have been a bit shady with their descriptions, but overall, it's still technically what I ordered, and I've taken note. Time will tell how the parts hold up, but given the markings, here's hoping. That's always the best plan, right?
So are you trying to say that lightly-marked parts are of a lower quality than heavily-marked ones? I would say that is merely a production variance. Pretty hard to believe Colt would mark bolts with MPC when they really weren't magnetic particle inspected. If fake MPC bolts got out there into the wild that would be some seriously bad mojo.
Just to let this thread have an update but they have released a new Expanse with model number CE2000 that has the FA and dust cover for 30 bucks more. www.gtdist.com has them for 659. They also have the OEM 1 and 2 for 729
.
Just to let this thread have an update but they have released a new Expanse with model number CE2000 that has the FA and dust cover for 30 bucks more. www.gtdist.com has them for 659. They also have the OEM 1 and 2 for 729
.
The OEM'S are out of stock.
I just picked up an Expanse the other day. I paid $650 out the door. It is a CE1000 model and has the LE lower and upper. To be honest I could care less if it doesn't have forward assist or a dust cover or if the barrel isn't the government profile or chrome lined. I chose the Expanse as an inexpensive base to build upon and make a solid defense weapon as well as for plinking. I already have a BCM Recce, Rock River AR and a Spike's Tactical SBR lower with both 300 Blk and 5.56 SBR uppers built with BCM upper receivers. I just wanted to add a Colt to the collection. The money saved vs buying a LE6920 I put towards a Seekins 15" keymod handguard, low profile gas block, MOE+ grip, BCM ambi charging handle and a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6 scope. I also have an ALG ACT trigger laying around if I don't like the Colt FCG but so far it feels pretty good dry firing. If I could have found an OEM for a reasonable price I may have gone in that direction but I couldn't so I'm happy with the choice of the Expanse. Now on to cleaning it up and getting everything installed... Half the fun is working on it. ;)
So Colt announced the CE2000 today w/ dust cover and forward assist.
http://www.colt.com/Media/Press-Releases/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/153/Colt-Unveils-a-New-Expanse-M4-the-CE2000
Bought a colt ce with the LE serial number. After doing research bought the dust cover, f/a and rear sight. Went to pick it up and they now had the 6920. After reading here what I was missing on the ce I wanted to upgrade to the 6920. I ended up trading up the entire upper and H buffer for the additional $175 and got a nicely equipped first AR. Thanks for all the great info on this thread I would not have known any of this stuff without reading this thread.
My bolt from a 6920 OEM1 has those same markings. CE is marked on the inside of the extractor and the MPC is extremely lightly engraved on the bolt. The carrier also has an extremely light "C" marking. I bought this OEM1 a week ago so maybe this is just how they're doing things at this point. To that effect i looked over the rest of the upper to ensure that it seemed like a legit 6920 and it certainly seems to be; barrel profile is the same as others that ive seen, forge marking is the "key" symbol and also has a "C", barrel looks to be chrome lined but then again ive never taken notice of non-chrome lined barrels so i cannot be certain.
Earlier this year I had a need for a quick, cheap AR and looked at the Sport II, Ruger AR-556 and Colt Expanse. I jumped all over the $650 Expanse because it had a real M4 marked LE6920 lower receiver with Colt internals except for the Colt Competition target hammer. The trigger is very good and the light hammer always ignites primers. I put my BCM midlength upper on it and the Expanse upper on the Valkyrie lower the BCM had been on. The Expanse upper definitely has some corners cut but it's on par with the Ruger and Sport. I did add a forward assist and dust cover for $20 and a spare H buffer in the lower.
If today's Expanse still has the semiauto Colt M4 lower it's a nice extra worth considering if you're looking for an entry lever AR-15. Colt does have the Expanse assembled at Bold Ideas, TX like their Colt Competition models (in fact the nice target hammer/trigger are Competition parts). Labor is cheaper in TX than the union labor in CT which helps keep cost down.
I got a two-fer by buying the Expanse, a Colt/BCM or Bravo Colt Midlength (basically the midlength LE6920 that is rumored to be in the pipeline) and an entry level AR on par with the Sport or Ruger. Heck, yeah I'm glad I bought the Expanse!
I got my expanse about three weeks ago. Le lower colt upper bolt is marked mp but no c. Colt barrel. I added the forward assist and dust cover for $19. I had a Bushnell ar 15 scope. Took it to the range it shot great groups from .75 to 1.5. I have ak74's for shtf. This is my first ar I like it good quality great price 610 delivered with ffl fee. A definite winner.
I bought a new Colt complete upper assembly advertised as a pull off from an a3 and paid $419. The same one was listed on MidwayUSA for $619 so I hastily and greedily hit the pay button. Reading the fine print and researching this thread told me that I have just bought a pull off from a Colt CE 2000. I'm convinced that Midway is selling the same unit for $200 more. The difference is a MagPul rear sight. Both have 1/7 twist.
So if others among us are unsophisticated as I am in the AR market, and if an Expanse upper is not what you want, then beware. I guess I'll go back to shooting dirt clods and stumps.
New Expanse lowers are also on Gunbroker,and their images show that they have le serial numbers. Vendors make more by selling the assemblies separately.
With the current political situation, looking at a couple of these to put up in the safe for my boys. LGS has the CE2000 for like $700 w included cheap ass RDS. No CL and the weird hammer are cons but it's still a colt. Hammer is easily replaceable and a barrel is basically a consumable in the long run anyway.
Anyone seeing any problems with my logic?
With the current political situation, looking at a couple of these to put up in the safe for my boys. LGS has the CE2000 for like $700 w included cheap ass RDS. No CL and the weird hammer are cons but it's still a colt. Hammer is easily replaceable and a barrel is basically a consumable in the long run anyway.
Anyone seeing any problems with my logic?
In that case I'd just buy two nice lowers and call it a day. YMMV.
In that case I'd just buy two nice lowers and call it a day. YMMV.
I've thought about doing that in addition to the expanses. Decent factory rifle plus the ability to build their own one day. BCM blems G&R has are a good candidate for that....
Having read through this thread, the opinions seem mixed as to whether the Expanse is worthwhile. I'm not a fit and finish guy or a 'bragging rights' guy, and I'm far from an expert...just a novice with a little research under the belt. My reason for buying is for home defense before the possibility of 'four more years' takes a bigger bite. I'll also become the guy who knows what's what by the time all is said and done (I do have a cz po9 at present).
So, the CE1000? They've also come out with the CE2000, but the few places I've checked don't seem to carry it.
That said, I may have an opportunity to pick up a 4 yr old LE6920. Don't know what kind of shape it's in or what comes with it, but know enough to grab it up if the pieces fall into place. The photos I've seen look good, says only 50 rounds pushed through. Not being an expert, any tips on assessing if I get the chance to look at it?
And if not, is the Expanse worth the buy, or something within the $700-$1000 range out the door?
Damn the looks, I'd like to get as much build & function quality as possible at that price point.
Thanks for any help. I feel the pressure of Super Tuesday looming.
Having read through this thread, the opinions seem mixed as to whether the Expanse is worthwhile. I'm not a fit and finish guy or a 'bragging rights' guy, and I'm far from an expert...just a novice with a little research under the belt. My reason for buying is for home defense before the possibility of 'four more years' takes a bigger bite. I'll also become the guy who knows what's what by the time all is said and done (I do have a cz po9 at present).
So, the CE1000? They've also come out with the CE2000, but the few places I've checked don't seem to carry it.
That said, I may have an opportunity to pick up a 4 yr old LE6920. Don't know what kind of shape it's in or what comes with it, but know enough to grab it up if the pieces fall into place. The photos I've seen look good, says only 50 rounds pushed through. Not being an expert, any tips on assessing if I get the chance to look at it?
And if not, is the Expanse worth the buy, or something within the $700-$1000 range out the door?
Damn the looks, I'd like to get as much build & function quality as possible at that price point.
Thanks for any help. I feel the pressure of Super Tuesday looming.
Same basic question I was hoping to get answered above. Went ahead and grabbed a couple good lowers for my boys but still thinking a quality factory rifle might be a good idea. In that price range the 6920 OEM would be my #1 choice but those seem to be unicorns at the moment.
That's kind of why I'm thinking the CE1000 expanse might not be too bad. Yeah its missing some minor parts and the barrel/hammer isn't to TDP but that seems pretty minor. Looking at Brownells, you can add the FA, Port Cover, and normal hammer for $57 all from Colt. $39 if you want to go cheap and get the FA/Port cover in an Aero Precision kit.
Beyond that the only issue is a non-chrome lined barrel. It's still 4150 though so given that barrels are a wear item anyway, get it, shoot it till it wears out then put in a good CL barrel. I'm leaning towards grabbing a couple.
Same basic question I was hoping to get answered above. Went ahead and grabbed a couple good lowers for my boys but still thinking a quality factory rifle might be a good idea. In that price range the 6920 OEM would be my #1 choice but those seem to be unicorns at the moment.
That's kind of why I'm thinking the CE1000 expanse might not be too bad. Yeah its missing some minor parts and the barrel/hammer isn't to TDP but that seems pretty minor. Looking at Brownells, you can add the FA, Port Cover, and normal hammer for $57 all from Colt. $39 if you want to go cheap and get the FA/Port cover in an Aero Precision kit.
Beyond that the only issue is a non-chrome lined barrel. It's still 4150 though so given that barrels are a wear item anyway, get it, shoot it till it wears out then put in a good CL barrel. I'm leaning towards grabbing a couple.
I sent an email regarding the 6920 a few days ago and still haven't heard back, so it's likely that it's been sold. I'll send another inquiry this evening. I've also been considering 80%'ers along with a jig for the overall advantages there, but still know too little to make a solid decision in any direction and would have to educate myself in the machine and build process. Any opinions regarding lowers? I.E., does brand matter?...forged steel, polymer? I have local access to Anderson, Rock River, Aero and a few others.
I sent an email regarding the 6920 a few days ago and still haven't heard back, so it's likely that it's been sold. I'll send another inquiry this evening. I've also been considering 80%'ers along with a jig for the overall advantages there, but still know too little to make a solid decision in any direction and would have to educate myself in the machine and build process. Any opinions regarding lowers? I.E., does brand matter?...forged steel, polymer? I have local access to Anderson, Rock River, Aero and a few others.
For lowers I'm good as long as it's forged 7075 and in spec dimension. Brand only matters in that you have a much higher probability of getting an in spec functional lower from some than others. IMO the 2 best deals going in lowers are the BCM Blems that G&R has or the Sionics A5s. Can't hardly build out from a stripped lower for those prices....
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/sionics-a5-lower-receiver-assembly/72-patrol-rifle-zero.html
Found CE1000s for $649 w free shipping at Able's and jumped on it. Looking at $655.25 OTD once I pay transfer split amongst the 2 Colts and 2 stripped lowers. If I wanted to bring them up to 6920 spec later I'd still be a few bucks under a grand.
I think that's a pretty good value for putting a couple of quality manufacturer factory rifles back for my boys....
Fuzzy-Reticle
10-28-16, 21:32
I grabbed a CE2000. Inexpensive Hilary insurance. It looks like they made some changes beyond the dust cover and forward assist from the CE1000. For the price I can't complain. Other than the barrel not being chrome lined or having the M203 cut it's pretty darn close to a 6920. If I ever manage to shoot out the barrel I'll replace it. Maybe I'll SBR it one day. It is what it is and I am ok with that.
Mine has an LE prefix serial and QR code.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/box_zpsbowptykg.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/Lower_zpsh1j90dyo.jpg
Lower has keyhole forge mark.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/EDC466B5-AC43-4126-A779-ACD4DC54F288_zpssrp8uj8w.jpg
Mine came with a GI hammer.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/77F9F3D7-4B44-4D47-A166-9BE05F2F8B88_zpsrbnajebc.jpg
LPK was swimming in red grease.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/DAE60EB7-258F-41CB-B635-768681D9E869_zpshe1blkwl.jpg
Not the best staking on the endplate and castle nut. As long as it's stays in place it's ok by me.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/D6D42D85-A9D2-4E19-9E04-796483B3FE03_zps4yvjd1eg.jpg
Bolt carrier is staked well.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/CAA5B6A4-A2C8-4201-A897-FA074F902E02_zpsn5rowxyl.jpg
Extractor has both an insert and O ring
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/A7D234B4-0B67-4CB8-9C0E-72C04E6A1C8A_zpsi5zvjdwp.jpg
Carbine buffer. I'm guessing 3oz
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/0C1C0328-4B2D-4B80-8CC5-CDB36BE283A8_zpsclo86ykh.jpg
I sort of like the heavier profile barrel under the hand guard. Little bit thicker than a Gov't profile.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/21A546A7-732A-4459-9F7C-C7853F777AA5_zpsbzjbfelm.jpg
My barrel is marked differently than the one posted earlier.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/470B8B91-9F70-49EB-A65B-0AC2C1B66A66_zpsytcbarru.jpg
Unusual single piece magazine release. Don't know if that's bad or good. It's an easy fix.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/AB680B0B-FB18-483D-B37D-B82F21EC4943_zps5vetibyc.jpg
Upper does not have T marks. I could care less. As long as it's in spec I'm good.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/D077548C-4972-4ADB-BC51-A4469A864C05_zpsb7rzhti5.jpg
Flash hider looks like they used pliers to install. Who cares.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/77A7EEF0-5A8A-4E4A-958B-F80C40C0E962_zpswbp4vmcc.jpg
It is a serviceable basic carbine. Needs a better buttstock and a RDS. Maybe I'll try an MRO.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/fuzzyreticle/Colt%20CE2000/3E031051-8621-46F5-B04A-0E65AAEFE17A_zpsg7auanym.jpg
The staking of the end plate is actually how it's supposed to be done
An interesting opinion on the expanse offering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUnGhScNX24&t=610s
Just more proof this is a turd with a Colt receiver.
When you have recently been able to buy a 6720 for 799$ why in the name of god go pay 719$ for this junk.
I think this was a bad more for Colt and dumbs down their prestige in the AR15 world. Many people they will think they are really buying a Colt when they drop down the cash on this thing. I feel bad for them as they are being misled.
Colt the company that brought you Over sized FCG pins, sear blocks and the other garbage they pulled on civilians. Now they are misleading them into thinking they are buying a real Colt product. F them.
This is coming from a KAC guy; he will be hard pressed to do much better than an M&P Sport 2 in the $500 range. My son, his step-dad and my brother each have one and they love them. They're minute of bad guy accurate and they go bang. All three have better triggers than the Daniel Defenses I've bought that came with mil spec triggers.
Stepping up to the $800 range, I'd suggest calling Grant and going with a Colt. I live a couple hours from Grant and I go to his retail store once every 2-3 months. He's a good guy to deal with and he carries a lot of stuff that you can't even find in stock at Brownell's or Midway.
A lot of the respondents act like it's no big deal to go from $500 to $800, or to more than $1k. To the person who can't spend much more than $500, $800 is a 60% increase over budget. While I wholeheartedly agree with Stick, that you get what you pay for, sometimes you get what you can afford.
With regard to a being able to have your life depend on it, that is simply something that can't be guaranteed out of the box. Every company turns out the occasional turd, regardless of price.
This expanse crap is getting stupid.
Every product has a target market. If that target market isn't you, don't bitch about the product, especially since you weren't going to buy one or use one anyway.
The fact is that people aren't bitching about Colt putting out an entry level product, they're bitching because they want to get the exact same product that they ARE the target market for, at the same price as the entry level, and just won't admit it. Do the majority of the bitchers in this thread really care that the expanse doesn't come with the features they want? Nope. They seem to only "care" because they say it's a substandard rifle and it's worth the extra cash to just get the full featured rifle..... well no shit, Sherlock. That's why they even offer two different rifles with different feature sets at different price points. What ****ing part of this don't you people understand?
The Expanse isn't a 6920 and therefore doesn't have the same features as a 6920. If you want those features, buy a 69****ing20 already and be done with it.
No CL barrel and you want one? Then you're not the target market. All the little mil-spec fine points of manufacture and assembly missing and you want them? Then you're not the target market.
The company Does make a product that caters to your every desire? Then you're the target market.
Stop bitching because the make a product that isn't marketed to YOU and doesn't have all the shit that YOU want, just because it's less expensive and you want all your sacred cows at that same, discounted price. I can TOTALLY understand people on THIS board simply stating the obvious of "Save your shekels and get the slightly higher priced 6920 because it's a better all around rifle especially for real world use and training, which are the sorts of things we care about on a forum like this."..... What I DON'T understand is all the griping about the obvious lack of features that wasn't even marketed to the type of people that populate a forum like this in the first place...... For ****s sake, people.....
If you aren't going to buy it, use it, or deal with it, it isn't for you and all the shit talking, teardown videos on YouTube, complaint threads and posts on internet forums aren't going to change a thing.
This expanse crap is like grown men complaining about tampons...... not made for you but you're still bitching about the features they don't come with.
Not only am I NOT the target market for the expanse rifle, but I have also dealt with the sub-standard parts and workmanship of an expanse first hand* and I STILL don't give a crap about people bitching about them.
*I do not own an expanse RIFLE, I did purchase an expanse lower (someone parted out the rifle and the price was too good to pass up) and virtually everything but the lower and small pins/springs was crap. The end plate was staked so hard and deep that it dimpled the INSIDE of the receiver extension and the end plate had to be cut off because it was pressed into the aforementioned dimples (strangely enough the buffer sill slid fine though for hand cycling at least). I knew I was going to replace nearly everything in the damned thing so I wasn't concerned about it. That lower is now SBR'd and hosts my M4A1 Clone and does a damn fine job of it..... without any of its original parts that it came with.
Mysteryman
03-25-17, 03:00
This is coming from a KAC guy; he will be hard pressed to do much better than an M&P Sport 2 in the $500 range. My son, his step-dad and my brother each have one and they love them. They're minute of bad guy accurate and they go bang. All three have better triggers than the Daniel Defenses I've bought that came with mil spec triggers.
Stepping up to the $800 range, I'd suggest calling Grant and going with a Colt. I live a couple hours from Grant and I go to his retail store once every 2-3 months. He's a good guy to deal with and he carries a lot of stuff that you can't even find in stock at Brownell's or Midway.
A lot of the respondents act like it's no big deal to go from $500 to $800, or to more than $1k. To the person who can't spend much more than $500, $800 is a 60% increase over budget. While I wholeheartedly agree with Stick, that you get what you pay for, sometimes you get what you can afford.
With regard to a being able to have your life depend on it, that is simply something that can't be guaranteed out of the box. Every company turns out the occasional turd, regardless of price.
A budget is simply a set amount of money over a set period of time. A quality $800-$1000 AR is not out of reach for anyone if they simply reorganize their financial priorities. If a quality rifle is that important then a person will find the finances to fund it. What is often the case however are people who want the "bet my life on it milspec rifle" but don't want to pay for it. To justify buying low end garbage they use the excuse of "budget". These same people will spend $200 a weekend at the bar or on concert tickets but just can't seem to find the extra $200 for the known quantity better built rifle. All about prioritizing your life/money. If you can't afford the rifle then you absolutely cannot afford to shoot it, so what's the point in having it? The rifle is a fixed cost the ammo is what will eat your cash flow.
This expanse crap is getting stupid.
Every product has a target market. If that target market isn't you, don't bitch about the product, especially since you weren't going to buy one or use one anyway.
The fact is that people aren't bitching about Colt putting out an entry level product, they're bitching because they want to get the exact same product that they ARE the target market for, at the same price as the entry level, and just won't admit it. Do the majority of the bitchers in this thread really care that the expanse doesn't come with the features they want? Nope. They seem to only "care" because they say it's a substandard rifle and it's worth the extra cash to just get the full featured rifle..... well no shit, Sherlock. That's why they even offer two different rifles with different feature sets at different price points. What ****ing part of this don't you people understand?
The Expanse isn't a 6920 and therefore doesn't have the same features as a 6920. If you want those features, buy a 69****ing20 already and be done with it.
No CL barrel and you want one? Then you're not the target market. All the little mil-spec fine points of manufacture and assembly missing and you want them? Then you're not the target market.
The company Does make a product that caters to your every desire? Then you're the target market.
Stop bitching because the make a product that isn't marketed to YOU and doesn't have all the shit that YOU want, just because it's less expensive and you want all your sacred cows at that same, discounted price. I can TOTALLY understand people on THIS board simply stating the obvious of "Save your shekels and get the slightly higher priced 6920 because it's a better all around rifle especially for real world use and training, which are the sorts of things we care about on a forum like this."..... What I DON'T understand is all the griping about the obvious lack of features that wasn't even marketed to the type of people that populate a forum like this in the first place...... For ****s sake, people.....
If you aren't going to buy it, use it, or deal with it, it isn't for you and all the shit talking, teardown videos on YouTube, complaint threads and posts on internet forums aren't going to change a thing.
This expanse crap is like grown men complaining about tampons...... not made for you but you're still bitching about the features they don't come with.
Not only am I NOT the target market for the expanse rifle, but I have also dealt with the sub-standard parts and workmanship of an expanse first hand* and I STILL don't give a crap about people bitching about them.
*I do not own an expanse RIFLE, I did purchase an expanse lower (someone parted out the rifle and the price was too good to pass up) and virtually everything but the lower and small pins/springs was crap. The end plate was staked so hard and deep that it dimpled the INSIDE of the receiver extension and the end plate had to be cut off because it was pressed into the aforementioned dimples (strangely enough the buffer sill slid fine though for hand cycling at least). I knew I was going to replace nearly everything in the damned thing so I wasn't concerned about it. That lower is now SBR'd and hosts my M4A1 Clone and does a damn fine job of it..... without any of its original parts that it came with.
I think the big issue many have with the expanse is that it wears the Colt name and logo and it is not the same level of quality. Offering licensed low end junk as well as their flagship milspec stuff is not something Colt is known for doing and it rubs people the wrong way.
MM
Correct, and when you actually have a tell someone to get the psa instead of the Colt, something is wrong
I think the big issue many have with the expanse is that it wears the Colt name and logo and it is not the same level of quality. Offering licensed low end junk as well as their flagship milspec stuff is not something Colt is known for doing and it rubs people the wrong way.
MM
That's the point. It's not supposed to have the same level of quality as the higher end colt rifles. Once again, we are not the target market. People who don't care about the options we think are important, ARE the target market.
The expanse doesn't water down other Colt rifles any more than a 6 banger camaro waters down a ZL-1 or Z-28.
Different consumer target.
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Mysteryman
03-27-17, 18:43
That's the point. It's not supposed to have the same level of quality as the higher end colt rifles. Once again, we are not the target market. People who don't care about the options we think are important, ARE the target market.
I absolutely agree. The problem is that by doing this Colt is destroying their gold standard "milspec rifle" reputation.
The expanse doesn't water down other Colt rifles any more than a 6 banger camaro waters down a ZL-1 or Z-28.
Different consumer target.
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They absolutely are watering down the credibility and pedigree of their other offerings. Now that there are low end junk Colt products and they are in fact official Colt products there will be difficulty in determining if what you buy is in fact the original high quality stuff or the new low end garbage.
MM
I absolutely agree. The problem is that by doing this Colt is destroying their gold standard "milspec rifle" reputation.
They absolutely are watering down the credibility and pedigree of their other offerings. Now that there are low end junk Colt products and they are in fact official Colt products there will be difficulty in determining if what you buy is in fact the original high quality stuff or the new low end garbage.
MM
It's not at all difficult to determine.
We've all seemed to figure it out, to the extent we know the composition spec by spec, while most of us have never seen one in person.
It's pretty simple shit, really.
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I absolutely agree. The problem is that by doing this Colt is destroying their gold standard "milspec rifle" reputation.
They absolutely are watering down the credibility and pedigree of their other offerings. Now that there are low end junk Colt products and they are in fact official Colt products there will be difficulty in determining if what you buy is in fact the original high quality stuff or the new low end garbage.
MM
Strawman. Buy a new 6920 in the box and you're guaranteed to get the parts in it that you'd expect. And unless you're building a retro-type rifle, who here in this forum will replace a broken Colt part for a Colt part when the aftermarket has quality replacements for everything? Tough place to be into conspiracies because then you have to question if the aftermarket is selling what they claim.
I absolutely agree. The problem is that by doing this Colt is destroying their gold standard "milspec rifle" reputation.
How?
If the released the 6920 with these features (or lack thereof), I would wholeheartedly agree with you.... but they didn't.....
They absolutely are watering down the credibility and pedigree of their other offerings. Now that there are low end junk Colt products and they are in fact official Colt products there will be difficulty in determining if what you buy is in fact the original high quality stuff or the new low end garbage.
MM
This is what we call "sour grapes".... Circle back to my original statement on this subject.
Auto manufacturers are allowed a wide range of vehicles with or without options, power trains, etc., and at very different price points that are meant to service a wide variety of consumers with different financial means.
Does the Chevrolet Spark reduce the capabilities and worth of a Corvette? Both made by the same company, completely different ends of the price spectrum and each have a very different target market.
By your logic, because Chevy sells the Spark, then the Corvette is crap by proxy.
Please leave out the ford vs. chevy vs. whatever crap because I can find examples like this in ANY auto manufacturer, Chevy was just the first that came to mind.
I've seen a lot of crap on here about the "fit and finish" of the expanse and bitching about the missing features that people here desire, but I have yet to see a thread that complains about actual performance.
On a forum like this, I expected the opposite. I was under the impression that we cared about performance, not what something looks like, but all I see is a bunch of old ladies bitching about crap across a backyard fence..... It's turning into a ****ing knitting circle.... :-/
We'll just have to revise our common advise to new AR buyers:
"BCM, DD, LMT, KAC, Colt (except the Expanse)...."
The expanse doesn't water down other Colt rifles any more than a 6 banger camaro waters down a ZL-1 or Z-28.
Different consumer target.
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Are the six banger cameros built in a different factory by non chevy employees with not all chevy parts? Because then thats a fair comparison.
A six banger camero is a colt 6920 and ZL-1 or a ZL28 is a 6940 or 6960.
The expanse is a chevy Sonic
Yeah you're right. My 6920 is half the rifle it was pre-expanse.
[emoji57]
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Yeah you're right. My 6920 is half the rifle it was pre-expanse.
[emoji57]
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I rost...... ;)
Yeah you're right. My 6920 is half the rifle it was pre-expanse.
[emoji57]
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LOL! While I am no fan of Colt corporate after basically abandoning the civilian handgun market in the 90's, I think your sarcasm makes an excellent point. :D
I rost...... ;)
Lol...it's absurd, you know?
Anyone who does any sort of research into best "bang for buck" will likely land on the 6920 as a viable option. If they do zero research they might get an expanse.
If they get an expanse then assume ALL products from colt are pieces of shit, based on that one datapoint alone, well, in the amended words of the great Jeff Foxworthy... "then you might be the target market".
LOL! While I am no fan of Colt corporate after basically abandoning the civilian handgun market in the 90's, I think your sarcasm makes an excellent point. :D
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Mysteryman
03-31-17, 17:25
Strawman. Buy a new 6920 in the box and you're guaranteed to get the parts in it that you'd expect. And unless you're building a retro-type rifle, who here in this forum will replace a broken Colt part for a Colt part when the aftermarket has quality replacements for everything? Tough place to be into conspiracies because then you have to question if the aftermarket is selling what they claim.
There is no guarantee in anything, but buying a Colt rifle pre expanse was a very safe bet that you would get a milspec built rifle. Now that they offer low end garbage with their roll mark you may or may not get the same level of quality you once did. One bad 6920 and the doubt will set in as whether or not Colt main line is using the same parts as their expanse line. Selling an expanse upper as a Colt product is not a lie, it is simply not the Colt quality we are all accustomed to.
How?
If the released the 6920 with these features (or lack thereof), I would wholeheartedly agree with you.... but they didn't.....
This is what we call "sour grapes".... Circle back to my original statement on this subject.
Auto manufacturers are allowed a wide range of vehicles with or without options, power trains, etc., and at very different price points that are meant to service a wide variety of consumers with different financial means.
Does the Chevrolet Spark reduce the capabilities and worth of a Corvette? Both made by the same company, completely different ends of the price spectrum and each have a very different target market.
By your logic, because Chevy sells the Spark, then the Corvette is crap by proxy.
Please leave out the ford vs. chevy vs. whatever crap because I can find examples like this in ANY auto manufacturer, Chevy was just the first that came to mind.
I've seen a lot of crap on here about the "fit and finish" of the expanse and bitching about the missing features that people here desire, but I have yet to see a thread that complains about actual performance.
On a forum like this, I expected the opposite. I was under the impression that we cared about performance, not what something looks like, but all I see is a bunch of old ladies bitching about crap across a backyard fence..... It's turning into a ****ing knitting circle.... :-/
For starters the Corvette is a piece of sh*t but I digress. Chev offers low end and high end and it's obvious which is which but that still doesn't mean they aren't cutting corners at the top like they do at the bottom. A Colt expanse looks no different than a 6920 and is marketed as "..a Colt quality AR-15 within easy reach of the modern sportsman.." which it is NOT a Colt quality rifle. That is called deception and some would say a bold faced lie. If Colt is willing to whore out their name in hopes of higher margins on low end guns then what else have they lied about or are willing to risk? It would be a different story of they had been upfront about who and where these rifles were made. Colt seems interested in targeting a market that is saturated with junk by using their reputation to sell over priced poorly built guns. Effectively trading their reputation for profit. Sounds an awful lot like the big three selling garbage vehicles for decades only to end up in financial trouble due to low sales. You can't buy reputation it must be earned and it takes a lot longer to earn it than it does to lose it.
MM
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