View Full Version : I am taking the 5.45x39mm plunge! updated 09-23-09
I had a long talk with Grant a while back, thinking my gun was overbuffered or undergassed. It too failed to lock open fairly often.
Long story short, the mags played a much bigger role in the situation than I thought.
Get some of the 545ar.com followers to throw in those crappy CP mags and it will help considerably.
I had a long talk with Grant a while back, thinking my gun was overbuffered or undergassed. It too failed to lock open fairly often.
Long story short, the mags played a much bigger role in the situation than I thought.
Get some of the 545ar.com followers to throw in those crappy CP mags and it will help considerably.
Do you know of any vendors selling these? The website says they are no longer selling them to the public. :eek:
Jay Cunningham
12-18-09, 22:44
Not locking back on an H buffer tells me it is the magazine (not a surprise). These guns will lock back on H2 and H3 buffers (unless you have a gas leak or a huge recoil spring or something like that...)
I suspect all you need to do is replace the pathetic spring with a cut-down AK-74 spring and you will be GTG. You don't need to change the follower, they actually work quite well.
Not locking back on an H buffer tells me it is the magazine (not a surprise). These guns will lock back on H2 and H3 buffers (unless you have a gas leak or a huge recoil spring or something like that...)
I suspect all you need to do is replace the pathetic spring with a cut-down AK-74 spring and you will be GTG. You don't need to change the follower, they actually work quite well.
Is there some where you recommend getting ak74 springs from?
Is there some where you recommend getting ak74 springs from?
ditto
Jay Cunningham
12-19-09, 05:33
If I remember right I think I just called Pro-Mag and asked them if I could have some AK-74 springs.
Has anyone experimented with putting a spacer on the baseplate to give the stock springs a little more power.
I am having hell removed the front sight base. I want to put an omega rail on this beast.
Jay Cunningham
12-20-09, 10:53
I am having hell removed the front sight base. I want to put an omega rail on this beast.
Unsure I understand - you know that you do not need to remove the FSB to install an Omega rail... right?
Its the omega x FSB, I want to remove the hand gaurd plate on the back of it. Dont I need to remove it before I take the barrel nut off?
justin_247
12-23-09, 12:47
More info on the 5.45 upper. We asked the customer that had issues with their 5.45 upper to put in a ISMI CS buffer spring and H3 to see if the bolt would lock back. It does. So I knew that we were dealing with a very large gas port. So I made a call to S&W and found out that the gas port is .073. This is HUGE. The only logic I can come up with for why they did this is because they were concerned about weak com bloc ammo no cycling (can understand this).
I am going to try and work with S&W to see if we can get them to bring the gas port down to around .068. In the mean time, if I was running this upper, I would be using an H3 buffer for certain!
C4
Did S&W ever bring the gas port down as you recommended? If not, have you found your H3 buffer w/ a CS buffer spring to be an effective remedy?
Additionally, I heard that with the new hammer spring that comes with the upper receiver, the trigger pull increases to 10-11 lbs. Is this true? If so, what can be done to bring it down to 6-7 lbs without cutting down on reliability?
Singlestack Wonder
12-23-09, 13:01
Its the omega x FSB, I want to remove the hand gaurd plate on the back of it. Dont I need to remove it before I take the barrel nut off?
Yes, the FSB will need to be removed before the barrel nut can be taken off. Are you having problems driving out the taper pins? Make sure you are trying to drive them out from the small end. It's best to use a front sight block such as the one Brownells sells.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=20727/Product/AR_15_FRONT_SIGHT_BENCH_BLOCK
Littlelebowski
12-23-09, 13:21
Additionally, I heard that with the new hammer spring that comes with the upper receiver, the trigger pull increases to 10-11 lbs. Is this true? I
No. It's fine, very crisp and works out in time to an excellent trigger.
I heard that with the new hammer spring that comes with the upper receiver, the trigger pull increases to 10-11 lbs. Is this true?
Actually yes it is. I have about 1000 rounds through mine after replacing with the orange spring. My trigger gauge still reads at 10.5 pounds.:eek:
Here is my S&W 5.45 upper on a DD lower. I installed a DD Omega X FSP 12.0 quad rail on it. Next up is finding a stock I like to put on it. Either a Emod, ACS, or CTR.
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/545m4.jpg
Jay Cunningham
12-24-09, 12:44
Very nice.
:cool:
Singlestack Wonder
12-24-09, 14:05
We're expecting a range report soon!
Quick update i went close to 15k rounds before i had to clean mine. in less than 8 months.
all surplus ammo. it finally gave me fits at super daves class. cleaned it and its running top notch again
We're expecting a range report soon!
It has run 100% with half of my c product mags. The other half it has absolute fits with, such as not locking back and issues cambering rounds. I need to solve the issue with the weak mag springs.
Jay Cunningham
12-25-09, 04:13
Quick update i went close to 15k rounds before i had to clean mine. in less than 8 months.
all surplus ammo. it finally gave me fits at super daves class. cleaned it and its running top notch again
Did you have a build-up of red/orange corrosive residue?
Did you have a build-up of red/orange corrosive residue?
Red from the BCG more than anything else,
figured they may have also been from the primer sealant but most was built up on bolt face and inter to firing pin channel
so i became pretty convinced after this test that lots of lube and she is good to go until i want to clean it.
some cp mags are still giving me fits
I ran my gun some more today. It ran well however the mags would not lock back. I changed my lower to a non H buffer and it ran 100% and every mag locking back. When I run my 5.45 upper I will use a regular carbine buffer and when I am running my 556 upper I will run my H buffer.
Using the regular carbine buffer seemed to have solved my mag issues.
Jay Cunningham
12-29-09, 19:48
How did recoil feel?
Robb Jensen
12-29-09, 19:54
I ran my gun some more today. It ran well however the mags would not lock back. I changed my lower to a non H buffer and it ran 100% and every mag locking back. When I run my 5.45 upper I will use a regular carbine buffer and when I am running my 556 upper I will run my H buffer.
Using the regular carbine buffer seemed to have solved my mag issues.
IMHO experience the 5.45 S&W uppers run best with CAR buffers.......
I couldn't really tell the difference.
I originally purchased an entire S&W 15R gun which ran like a top. However I sold the complete lower and started running my Daniel Defense lower with my 5.45 upper and that is when the magazine issue reared its head.
Today at the range my I shot my gun with both lowers and the only time the bolt would not lock back was when I was shooting with a H buffer.
I am wondering if S&W fixed their gas port issue and the uppers don't have enough energy to lock the bolt back with a heavier buffer.
IMHO experience the 5.45 S&W uppers run best with CAR buffers.......
That is what it looks like to me as well. That is cool though, I can solve this permanently for 15 bucks.
I took my 5.45 gun to the range two consecutive days and over the two range trips (Tuesday and Wednesday) fired approximately 450 shots of the corrosive surplus ammo. This morning I took her out to clean and these pictures are what it looked like. I was surprised how fast the rust appeared.
I live in Houston Texas and the humidity here last couple days has been 80% to 100%. So I would imagine this could explain why I have surface rust right away and others do not. The good news is its just surface rust and was all removed with little effort.
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0062.jpg
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0065.jpg
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0080.jpg
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0082.jpg
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0083.jpg
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0089.jpg
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l357/jbg04/DSC_0093.jpg
I'm saving up to get my 1st AR and I'm thinking about getting the M&P 15R. The price of the ammo would allow me to have a lot more shooting time. Is there any reason not to get the the 15R as a 1st AR?
I have a 15R and love it. I only shoot Wolf or Silver Bear to avoid the corrosive residue left by combloc bulk ammo. Little more expensive, but less than 5.56. You need to be aware of the fact that all of this ammo is steel cased and cannot be reoloaded. Also, no American mfg, all comes from Russia or other former Soviet held countries.
I really enjoy the 5.45 AR. I am debating on having a 18" rifle length barrel made, so that I can make a SPR rifle in this caliber. Its a great cost effective shooter.
I took my 5.45 gun to the range two consecutive days and over the two range trips (Tuesday and Wednesday) fired approximately 450 shots of the corrosive surplus ammo. This morning I took her out to clean and these pictures are what it looked like. I was surprised how fast the rust appeared.
I live in Houston Texas and the humidity here last couple days has been 80% to 100%. So I would imagine this could explain why I have surface rust right away and others do not. The good news is its just surface rust and was all removed with little effort.
Vs.
I have ben pushing mine for an article. after this super dave class it should be at the 15-16k mark it had one cleaning after 1k mark... since then lube thats it th eonly sign of issues was at the FSC556 once because i forgot to oil it
and nothing but MILSURP ammo russian and some bulgy...
I almost feel silly talking about corrosive ammo because people have been shooting it forever. However, Steve and others have convinced me that a meticulous cleaning regimen is not necessary if the rust prone areas are kept wet w/ clp or whatnot. At first I was cleaning mine as soon as I got home. I would pre-clean it w/ hot, soapy water; dry; clean everything w/ solvents; and then wipe everything down w/ clp. Now I do not fret as long as I at least punch the bore w/ something and ensure flash hider, BCG, and bore/chamber are wet w/ clp before put away.
I've been getting lazy and not cleaning ASAP...but spraying the bcg and any other areas that look suspect with BALISTOL. NO rust so far.
My junker AK-74 hasn't been cleaned since the Fall...but it does get sprayed after each use. Different system than the AR too. Doesn't blow off lube as badly as the AR.
Local Relative Humidity does seem to be THE deciding factor.
FN in MT
I have been using Mobil 1 as my lube of choice, however after seeing the rust from 2 straight days of shooting has me thinking I need something that is more resistant corrosion. You cant argue with my pictures, I have a rust issue. This problem could probably be minimized with a better corrosive resistant oil.
Damn near everything rusts here when your humidity is between 70% to 100% 365 days a year.
I have been using Mobil 1 as my lube of choice, however after seeing the rust from 2 straight days of shooting has me thinking I need something that is more resistant corrosion. You cant argue with my pictures, I have a rust issue. This problem could probably be minimized with a better corrosive resistant oil.
Damn near everything rusts here when your humidity is between 70% to 100% 365 days a year.
Meh. Try more lube. Your stuff looks too dry to me.
I am thinking about giving Eezox a shot. Seen from this thread it looks like it does an outstanding job at preventing corrosion.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=39637&highlight=miltec
Jay Cunningham
01-01-10, 19:51
Remember not to lose sight of what it is that you are trying to accomplish - it's an AR. You need a lube first that will keep the gun running. Worry about cleanup/corrosion mitigation as a secondary consideration.
Remember not to lose sight of what it is that you are trying to accomplish - it's an AR. You need a lube first that will keep the gun running. Worry about cleanup/corrosion mitigation as a secondary consideration.
Indeed. I normally clean every gun after a range trip, I was curious how back to back range trips would treat my gun. In the future I will clean after use and if there is not proper time to clean then I will give it some water to nutralize the salts.
Singlestack Wonder
01-01-10, 20:22
Consider having the barrel & bolt carrier components (anything ferrous based) treated with Melonite QPQ.
Jay Cunningham
01-01-10, 20:33
I don't think it's necessary to have the barrel treated with anything if it is chrome-lined. The places that are going to be most affected by potential corrosion are the muzzle device, tail of the bolt, and deeper inside the bolt carrier.
I would be most attentive to the bolt assembly myself.
Failure2Stop
01-01-10, 22:38
I got my 5.45 upper last summer. Promptly after getting it I pushed about 500 or so rounds through it. After shooting I sprayed it down with Windex (though it was probably unnecessary), washed it out with hot water, flushed the lower and gas tube with WD40 (to chase water out of the nooks and crannies), lubed as normal, and stored it untouched for about 4 months. No indication of any corrosion anywhere on the gun.
Jay Cunningham
01-01-10, 22:57
Just for clarifying info - I *intentionally* ran several hundred rounds through then threw it in the corner for a couple of months to see what would be most effected corrosion-wise. The shooting occurred on mainly humid days.
I think it's about time to make up a condensed "Myths Busted/Lessons Learned" thread on this topic...
Singlestack Wonder
01-02-10, 17:28
I don't think it's necessary to have the barrel treated with anything if it is chrome-lined. The places that are going to be most affected by potential corrosion are the muzzle device, tail of the bolt, and deeper inside the bolt carrier.
I would be most attentive to the bolt assembly myself.
Yes, but why not treat everything? Coal Creek Armory will treat the barrel, FSB, and flash hider for approx. $125. As far as hard chrome goes, although it takes longer, it will corrode if exposed to the right elements and not wiped down with a protector. I've rusted several HC pistols after handling them in the summer and not wiping them down. I've got that special corrosive body chemistry. A blued pistol will show my fingerprints in rust after just a few short hours. Hence all of my firearms get the Melonite QPQ treatment.
On another note, this thread has a lot of great information concerning 5.45 builds, the associated problems, and fixes. Perhaps we need a "Sticky" listing the learned lessons of building a 5.45? (i.e. mags, followers, springs, buffer types, etc.)
Does anyone run a trigger group modified by Bill Springfield. I want to send my trigger group to Bill to have him work the trigger. Does anyone know if he replaces the the hammer spring to to the reduced hammer power hammer spring?
Does anyone run a trigger group modified by Bill Springfield. I want to send my trigger group to Bill to have him work the trigger. Does anyone know if he replaces the the hammer spring to to the reduced hammer power hammer spring?
I have a couple. The one I am using with the 5.45 upper has the 4# trigger job. It is using the extra power spring and breaks very cleanly.
I have another with the 3# trigger job and he replaces the springs with JP springs.
I have a couple. The one I am using with the 5.45 upper has the 4# trigger job. It is using the extra power spring and breaks very cleanly.
I have another with the 3# trigger job and he replaces the springs with JP springs.
What is the trigger pull weight with the heavy hammer spring on the 5.45 upper? Is it a vast improvement over the stock 5.45 trigger pull?
Unfortunately I have no way of measuring the trigger pull weight with the 4# trigger + extra power spring. It is very crisp with no creep at all. It may be a tad heavier than 4# though.
The trigger was gritty and had a fair amount of creep before. I am very happy with it.
By far some of the best $35 I've ever spent for the AR stuff.
Failure2Stop
01-03-10, 23:20
I think it's about time to make up a condensed "Myths Busted/Lessons Learned" thread on this topic...
I agree.
Littlelebowski
01-04-10, 05:38
Agreed. Would be happy to help out.
Unfortunately I have no way of measuring the trigger pull weight with the 4# trigger + extra power spring. It is very crisp with no creep at all. It may be a tad heavier than 4# though.
The trigger was gritty and had a fair amount of creep before. I am very happy with it.
By far some of the best $35 I've ever spent for the AR stuff.
Thanks for posting this up. I, and probably many others, were unaware that it would still functional correctly with a modified trigger.
Failure2Stop
01-24-10, 18:43
I just took my S&W 5.45 to the range to zero my PA miniRDS and do a little presentation training.
I was using Lancer mags, which had only worked with about 10 rounds and I wanted to make sure that they would be viable for training use. Interestingly, now two of my three Lancers work with 25 rounds. The one that does not work has a black follower- the ones that now work with 25 have green followers. Filled to 25 they bulge significantly and are a little tough to insert into the magwell, but not too bad.
Anyway, it seems to have taken about 100 to 150 rounds to break them in to work with more than 10.
I am going to drop an extra power spring into the mag that will only work with 10 and see if that will help.
I had four stoppages, all with the low-capacity mag filled with more than 10 rounds.
At 100 yards I was getting consistent 3 to 4 inch groups from the bench with the PA micro and Spam-can ammo. It's about the same performance I get with my 14.5 LMT with a T1 shooting M855.
After zeroing I pushed about 200 rounds through it doing presentations from the 25. The gun was pretty hot, but functioned well.
Gun was lubed with Slip 2000.
Littlelebowski
01-24-10, 18:51
I've had better results regarding corrosion using WeaponShield/FP10 than Slip2K, FYI.
Globemaster
01-24-10, 19:40
FYI: George at Weapons Shield is getting ready to release a product that will neutralize the corrosive properties of the com-bloc ammunition … more to follow!
We are about to release the Steel Shield version of this called "Ammo Shield" and "Lock, Stock, and Barrel Shield" (the latter for black powder).
Stand by....more to come.
Best regards,
George
George C. Fennell
Technical Director
President - Technical Operations
Steel Shield Technologies, Inc.
http://www.weaponshield.com
http://www.steelshieldtech.com
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/globemaster_oly/DSCN6713.jpg
I just took my S&W 5.45 to the range to zero my PA miniRDS and do a little presentation training.
I was using Lancer mags, which had only worked with about 10 rounds and I wanted to make sure that they would be viable for training use. Interestingly, now two of my three Lancers work with 25 rounds. The one that does not work has a black follower- the ones that now work with 25 have green followers. Filled to 25 they bulge significantly and are a little tough to insert into the magwell, but not too bad.
Anyway, it seems to have taken about 100 to 150 rounds to break them in to work with more than 10.
I am going to drop an extra power spring into the mag that will only work with 10 and see if that will help.
I had four stoppages, all with the low-capacity mag filled with more than 10 rounds.
At 100 yards I was getting consistent 3 to 4 inch groups from the bench with the PA micro and Spam-can ammo. It's about the same performance I get with my 14.5 LMT with a T1 shooting M855.
After zeroing I pushed about 200 rounds through it doing presentations from the 25. The gun was pretty hot, but functioned well.
Gun was lubed with Slip 2000.
Your using Lancer 5.56 mags??
FN in MT
Failure2Stop
01-25-10, 18:21
Your using Lancer 5.56 mags??
FN in MT
Yup. Littlelebowski turned me onto them.
I shot his 5.45 last summer, and IIRC he was using the Lancers exclusively. His worked with at least 20 rounds per mag (might have been more, I am sure he will pop in to clarify).
I had three Lancers sitting around that I wasn't doing anything with, so I marked them as training mags. When new, they would only reliably work with 10 rounds, but now two of the three work with 25. I went with them because I only had 1 CP 5.45 mag and I didn't have time to wait for more to be mailed to me and while overseas I couldn't send standard capacity mags to my folks' place as they are in MD.
I am happy with the performance of the Lancers, but will be getting dedicated 5.45 mags from now on as I am back in the US and working out of a permissive state.
Thanks for the clarification. I assumed you knew about the C-Products dedicated 5.45 mags...but one never knows. Palmetto had them several months back for $14 each so I stocked up on half a dozen.
Interesting to know about the Lancers.....have to try that out.
FN in MT
I got mine 5.45 when they first came out so I have had itg for a while and only shoot corrosive surplus in it. I have about 16K rounds through it and I use windex to clean the salts off then brake cleaner for the rest. In the classes I take we use a very high roun
d count so I lube it up with grease only no oil. All that being said iv never had any corrosion rust crap on my gun but hey if you found something that also works use it.
Ironically, all the military surplus 5.45 has dried up in the last month. You guys suck.:p
Ironically, all the military surplus 5.45 has dried up in the last month. You guys suck.:p
Where are you shopping? Its still out there online.
Where are you shopping? Its still out there online.
Well.....not completely dried up. However, I'd say that the supply has dramatically decreased. I usually find what I need on ammoengine.
Century Intl is in FL. I think their ammo MAY come from their other site in NH, but give them a try. May be simple enough to pick up at Century...save the shipping costs.
FN in MT
Called centry yesterday they are all out
Thats a problem.
I guessed this was going to happen so a little more than a year ago I started buying a crate a paycheck. Get it while u can
GermanSynergy
01-31-10, 21:31
I've got about 4400 rds of Soviet surplus 5.45x39... Now I need to buy some more!
Jay Cunningham
02-01-10, 04:50
Glad I have about 11,000 rounds to tide me over.
I talked to the folks at century and they are in fact out of 5.45 surplus, however they said it was because of the sale they had during December. They assured me they would be getting more in in the next couple months and that the surplus is not drying up.
try aim if brian is out try this
copes dist
last weeks shotgun news said they had it and at a hell of a price
if i didn't own 2 lifetimes of ammo i would buy some more
i still may
good luck
J&G in AZ still shows it in stock. AIM Surplus in OH is cheaper.
I'm jealous of the guys who are CLOSE BY some of these vendors. Shipping to MT kills most any deal.
FN in MT
Colon Towel
02-05-10, 09:02
I have had my M&P15R for about a month now and I love it. Bought it from a friend who had it for a year but never fired it. Very fun to shoot. I have 5 CProd mags and have shot only about 300 rounds of the Barnaul 60gr N.C. ammo out of it so far. I have had some feed troubles where it seems that it isn't properly stripping the round from the mag. seems to happen with about 1 round per mag. It is really to soon to tell if this will be a problem since I have so few rounds out of it so far. Going to send 300 more out this Sunday. will see how it does.
Loading these mags are a pain after about 20 rounds in. Anyone know if the Butler Creek LULA Loader/Unloader for the 5.56 will work with the 5.45?
http://www.butlercreek.com/products/loading_LULA.html
I use the StripLULA and it works great
A 5.56 LULA doesn't cooperate well. I use the 5 rd loader for the Beta C Mag. Very handy and good finger saver if you're jamming a lot of mags.
Colon Towel
02-09-10, 12:47
So I went out Sunday and sent about 500 rounds down range. I was shooting the 60gr Barnaul and had about 4 rounds keyhole on me. I have 5 CProduct's mags numbered 1 – 5 and I loaded each one to 20 rounds each time because I was too lazy to keep pushing when it started to get difficult. All rounds fed perfectly out of 4 of the mags, but one mag consistently gave me some grief due to not stripping the round completely. Might need to put the Ak spring in that one and see if that helps it. Anyone know of an anti tilt follower replacement that will drop right in and work with the CProd mag?
So I went out Sunday and sent about 500 rounds down range. I was shooting the 60gr Barnaul and had about 4 rounds keyhole on me. I have 5 CProduct's mags numbered 1 – 5 and I loaded each one to 20 rounds each time because I was too lazy to keep pushing when it started to get difficult. All rounds fed perfectly out of 4 of the mags, but one mag consistently gave me some grief due to not stripping the round completely. Might need to put the Ak spring in that one and see if that helps it. Anyone know of an anti tilt follower replacement that will drop right in and work with the CProd mag?
Why yes, there is an improved magazine follower out there. A member here who goes by "87GN" (same name on TOS as well) sells an improved 5.45 follower for the C Products magazines. It has longer legs to prevent follower tilt, thus it reduces capacity to 28 rounds but it works great.
He sold quite a few, even had a web page dedicated to them (545.com ?) but they are not in production any more. I think he has a couple hundred left, I would recommend sending him a private message through the forum for more info.
I believe he also posted a youtube video showing the improved follower but his user name on youtube is not the same, so you'll have to try the youtube search feature to find the video.
BTW, I have no vested interest in the sale of these followers, just trying to help out with the info. The followers may even be sold out and out of production now for all I know.
So I went out Sunday and sent about 500 rounds down range. I was shooting the 60gr Barnaul and had about 4 rounds keyhole on me. I have 5 CProduct's mags numbered 1 – 5 and I loaded each one to 20 rounds each time because I was too lazy to keep pushing when it started to get difficult. All rounds fed perfectly out of 4 of the mags, but one mag consistently gave me some grief due to not stripping the round completely. Might need to put the Ak spring in that one and see if that helps it. Anyone know of an anti tilt follower replacement that will drop right in and work with the CProd mag?
Also, regarding keyholing, I would recommend checking the barnaul silver bear bullets with a micrometer. I have read other reports of this ammo specifically being on the low side of acceptable bullet size and keyholing in rifles that were fine with spam can surplus.
I'm just recommending to check that before assuming your S&W has a problem barrel.
If you embrace the cleaning and maintenance regimen (including Ballistol) needed for corrosive ammo, you can bask in the glory of shooting $0.12/round ammo. IMO, commercial 5.45 alternatives are priced too close to .223/5.56 to make the caliber worthwhile.
Why yes, there is an improved magazine follower out there. A member here who goes by "87GN" (same name on TOS as well) sells an improved 5.45 follower for the C Products magazines. It has longer legs to prevent follower tilt, thus it reduces capacity to 28 rounds but it works great.
He sold quite a few, even had a web page dedicated to them (545.com ?) but they are not in production any more. I think he has a couple hundred left, I would recommend sending him a private message through the forum for more info.
I believe he also posted a youtube video showing the improved follower but his user name on youtube is not the same, so you'll have to try the youtube search feature to find the video.
BTW, I have no vested interest in the sale of these followers, just trying to help out with the info. The followers may even be sold out and out of production now for all I know.
I've got five or six of those followers.........IF you can't find 87GN over on ARFCOM drop me a PM I probably have his e mail address.
Recently cleaned my desk and threw my "filing system" into disarray. He should be easy enough to find though.
FN in MT
First time with photobucket hopefully this works..
MP15r
Daniel Defense Omega x 12.0fsp
eotech 516
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae305/rdrouant/ar15009.jpg
I just added the rail and sight cant wait to take it to the range to try them out. I probably have about 1000 rounds down the tube so far. I really enjoy shooting this rifle and have experienced no corrosion at all and I live in the most humid of all places, New Orleans. All surplus stuff with a few rounds of silver bear at the end to flush it out. My shooting range is in a swamp and I still don't have problems. Would love to see some pics of everyone elses 5.45x39 ars so i can get some more ideas. Did anyone else receive their gun with a Ruger stock on it like this one?
Who dat!
vicious_cb
02-12-10, 01:08
Quick question.
Do I have to clean out the FCG and the buffer assembly when shooting mil-surp ammo?
Jay Cunningham
02-12-10, 04:41
Quick question.
Do I have to clean out the FCG and the buffer assembly when shooting mil-surp ammo?
I would pay a *little bit* more attention to them, but generally speaking these components are not really effected.
vicious_cb
02-12-10, 08:45
I just took my S&W 5.45 to the range to zero my PA miniRDS and do a little presentation training.
I was using Lancer mags, which had only worked with about 10 rounds and I wanted to make sure that they would be viable for training use. Interestingly, now two of my three Lancers work with 25 rounds. The one that does not work has a black follower- the ones that now work with 25 have green followers. Filled to 25 they bulge significantly and are a little tough to insert into the magwell, but not too bad.
Anyway, it seems to have taken about 100 to 150 rounds to break them in to work with more than 10.
I am going to drop an extra power spring into the mag that will only work with 10 and see if that will help.
I had four stoppages, all with the low-capacity mag filled with more than 10 rounds.
At 100 yards I was getting consistent 3 to 4 inch groups from the bench with the PA micro and Spam-can ammo. It's about the same performance I get with my 14.5 LMT with a T1 shooting M855.
After zeroing I pushed about 200 rounds through it doing presentations from the 25. The gun was pretty hot, but functioned well.
Gun was lubed with Slip 2000.
So the black follower ones worked with 25 after some breaking in? Or was it the green follower ones?
Do the lancers take standard USGI green followers?
vicious_cb
02-13-10, 23:28
I took out my 5.45 upper for the first time. Ran flawlessly except when I got home to clean it I notice one of lugs was chipped. Should I contact S&W? I hope I wont have to send back the whole upper.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee52/j_rock001/IMG_0451.jpg
vicious_cb
02-15-10, 10:26
I spoke with S&W customer service. They want me to send in the entire upper, I asked them if they could send me a replacement bolt but they cant do it. I have to send in upper and wait 4 weeks to get it fixed :mad:
So far it hasn't caused any problems and I really dont want to wait 4 weeks when a simple bolt swap can fix the problem. Should I just run it as is?
justin_247
02-16-10, 07:03
I spoke with S&W customer service. They want me to send in the entire upper, I asked them if they could send me a replacement bolt but they cant do it. I have to send in upper and wait 4 weeks to get it fixed :mad:
So far it hasn't caused any problems and I really dont want to wait 4 weeks when a simple bolt swap can fix the problem. Should I just run it as is?
If they pay for the S&H, why not? I'm sure they're going to look at it and determine what the problem was so they can make improvements on future models.
justin_247
02-16-10, 07:05
On another note, I read on TOS that some people are having luck with using 6.8 SPC magazines with this round.
Has anybody on here tried this idea?
Well I hit just over 12,000 with mine. Three 3 day carbine courses (VTAC X2, EAG)with it in 2009. The extractor died the bed around 11,400 to 11, 500. At 12,000 I had GOT M4( AKA Jensen Ready aka The Gamer) swap the hand guard out for a nine inch VTAC tube (which rocks). At this time he replaced the gas tube, still functional but worn where it meets the carrier key. He also check ed th gas port size which still read .073 like when it was new. What appers to be some barrel errosion / wear seems evident just ahead of the chamber, but alas we do not have 5.45x39 gauges to measure this wear. The upper on this Frakengun still shoots to the Micro Aimpoint/ 545 ammo/ my abilities.
So to reacap, one extractor, three dead mags in 12K. I might have been able to save the mags and rework them but one I get two mag related malfunctions from the same mag they are tossed in the trash can, right then and there. Not so bad. I think I will buy another so I will have the dream of a matched pair to take to classes.
Regards
Matthew
Colon Towel
02-17-10, 10:29
I've got five or six of those followers.........IF you can't find 87GN over on ARFCOM drop me a PM I probably have his e mail address.
Recently cleaned my desk and threw my "filing system" into disarray. He should be easy enough to find though.
FN in MT
There is a phone number and email address listed on the his website 545AR.COM but i cant ever get him to reply to either of them. I guess he has stopped selling them again. :confused:
Does anyone run a trigger group modified by Bill Springfield. I want to send my trigger group to Bill to have him work the trigger. Does anyone know if he replaces the the hammer spring to to the reduced hammer power hammer spring?
I run the Bill Springfield 4# trigger job on my M&P15R, but I put the S&W red hammer spring in without modification.
I can't comment on the measurement of the pull without a scale, it is still fairly stiff but now it has no "take up" and breaks like glass.
That'll be good for me.
I have read all thirty pages, because I couldn't find much else on other forums. Is anyone using the rguns.net upper or the M1Sales upper? I have an M1S 7.62x39 upper that works fine, and saw the upper mentioned here, but it was shrugged off quickly.
sent an email to hornady the other day asking when the 5.45x39 vmax steel case ammo should be out and they replied that they are shooting for a mid summer release. Will this new ammo end the debate that there are no 5.45x39 rounds that could be used in a shtf or personal defense scenario? I personally can not wait to pick up some of this ammo and hope that everyone here aggravates hornady into a speedy release!
vicious_cb
02-21-10, 21:24
If they pay for the S&H, why not? I'm sure they're going to look at it and determine what the problem was so they can make improvements on future models.
Well is been a week and no shipping label. Im very temped to just run it with the chipped lug since it hasn't caused any problems.
...............Will this new ammo end the debate that there are no 5.45x39 rounds that could be used in a shtf or personal defense scenario?
:confused: Do you know what 7n6 is?
ETA
I did not realize there was a debate.
:confused: Do you know what 7n6 is?
ETA
I did not realize there was a debate.
There seem to be two schools of thought on this. Those that think the 7n6 is the deadly "poison bullet" and those who claim that any reasonable load of 5.56 dupes the 5.45 ballistically and the "poison bullet" is a myth. Yes ive heard about the yawing capabilities of the 7n6 and no i dont want to be shot by any kind of 5.45x39 round. I guess the question is better phrased as "will this new domestically produced 5.45 round finally match the terminal ballistics of some of the higher end 5.56 rounds?" I am a complete newb on terminal ballistics so i guess what im really asking is how affective do you think this new round would be in a self defense situation and how would it compare to the other commercially available rounds and the 7n6? Also is the surplus ammo we all buy from aim or century 7n6 itself, a similar military round, or something different altogether? Ive heard different things on that topic as well.
There seem to be two schools of thought on this. Those that think the 7n6 is the deadly "poison bullet" and those who claim that any reasonable load of 5.56 dupes the 5.45 ballistically and the "poison bullet" is a myth. Yes ive heard about the yawing capabilities of the 7n6 and no i dont want to be shot by any kind of 5.45x39 round. I guess the question is better phrased as "will this new domestically produced 5.45 round finally match the terminal ballistics of some of the higher end 5.56 rounds?" I am a complete newb on terminal ballistics so i guess what im really asking is how affective do you think this new round would be in a self defense situation and how would it compare to the other commercially available rounds and the 7n6? Also is the surplus ammo we all buy from aim or century 7n6 itself, a similar military round, or something different altogether? Ive heard different things on that topic as well.
I was under the impression all the mil-surp was 7n6. When it comes to firearms and personal defense, I think there is too much emphasis placed on caliber, firearm, and ammo selection and not enough emphasis placed on mindset and training. Balance is important. Maybe the Hornady round will be amazing. I do not really care at this point. Loading some of my go to mags with Hornady’s wonder round will not provide nearly as much benefit for me as another trip to the range for some focused practice to address my deficiencies. That is my paradigm. Obviously we are all different.
ETA
I am comfortable with Bulgarian mil-surp in my go to mags. I did not really address that.
Littlelebowski
02-23-10, 12:03
I was under the impression all the mil-surp was 7n6. When it comes to firearms and personal defense, I think there is too much emphasis placed on caliber, firearm, and ammo selection and not enough emphasis placed on mindset and training. Balance is important. Maybe the Hornady round will be amazing. I do not really care at this point. Loading some of my go to mags with Hornady’s wonder round will not provide nearly as much benefit for me as another trip to the range for some focused practice to address my deficiencies. That is my paradigm. Obviously we are all different.
ETA
I am comfortable with Bulgarian mil-surp in my go to mags. I did not really address that.
Well said.
Hey All,
First time poster here. I have a S&W 5.45 upper and for the life of me I can't get it to go bang 100% of the time. The orange, heavy spring is installed,BCG is clean and no apparent burs in the bolt firing pin channel. I also bumped the shoulder back on the firing pin approx. 5 thousandths to try and get more protrusion and that didn't help. Ammo is spam can from aim surplus. I'm getting 1 rd out of 5 to go bang. Any ideas? Thanks for any help you can provide.
DaG
I was under the impression all the mil-surp was 7n6. When it comes to firearms and personal defense, I think there is too much emphasis placed on caliber, firearm, and ammo selection and not enough emphasis placed on mindset and training. Balance is important. Maybe the Hornady round will be amazing. I do not really care at this point. Loading some of my go to mags with Hornady’s wonder round will not provide nearly as much benefit for me as another trip to the range for some focused practice to address my deficiencies. That is my paradigm. Obviously we are all different.
ETA
I am comfortable with Bulgarian mil-surp in my go to mags. I did not really address that.
I have to agree with LB here, well said. I should have taken into account when i said i don't want to be shot with any 5.45x39 round i really meant it. Shot placement and training I agree are key and far outweigh the difference in the ballistics of the two rounds. I just don't like all the naysayers (people at the range and on the web) who hate on the 5.45 round and say its no good for anything but training because 5.56 blows it out of the water. With that said i am still glad to see a domestically produced high quality 5.45x39 round in production.
Hey All,
Definitely think a "lessons learned" would be a good idea at this point. The info Katar, LB and others have provided has really helped me out. After reading all the posts here I ordered up some mil-surp from AIM. Up until that point I had only been using Wolf ammo (i did dabble with Barnaul but it didn't work that well for me). I am probably at around the 7-8k rounds through the rifle so far and besides some initial teething problems and a couple of batches of bad ammo its been a great, fun rifle. I just got back from the range after putting a few mags of mil-surp through it and although I wasn't expecting it to work I had luck using a Rev M Magpul PMAG with 15 rounds loaded (also was trying out a Lancer, 15 rounds, worked great). Probably ran it 3 times, same mag, same round count and had zero FTF malfunctions. Not sure if anyone else has had the same results.
I did have one issue though. I had recently changed out my buffer weight (CAR to H@) and buffer spring (Springco). For some reason once or twice it fired off a 2 or 3 shots instead of a single round. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?
M
Jay Cunningham
03-03-10, 14:50
For some reason, VERY occasionally, it will fire off a 2 or 3 round burst instead of a single round. Has anyone else experienced anything similar?
Be very careful and check your fire control group, specifically your disconnector and spring. If you cannot determine the cause for this replace your entire FCG or take your rifle to a qualified gunsmith for repair.
Thanks Katar, the second time it did it was today, twice. I am fairly new to the AR, what should I be looking for?? I presume (hopefully correctly) that by Fire Control Group you mean pretty much everything in the lower receiver trigger group? Is it a fairly easy thing to check/fix/replace?
Update: shipped it back to S&W, all repaired!
BLACK LION
03-03-10, 16:09
I took the "plunge" and got a Saiga 5.45...
IMHO, the com-bloc ammo with the gap aka air pocket should take down animals just fine... At least you have plenty of tries since ammo is so cheap.
Maybe someone can help.
I reported a while ago that my 5.45 is failing to lock back on the last round fired.
Well the full story is this was a complete M&Pr rifle. When It was in its complete form it ran 100%. I decided to sell the lower on it and just run my DD lower on all my guns.
This is when the problems started. Now the gun wont lock back on all the mags. I borrowed my bros lower and the problem dissapeared again.
I did notice his lower had a regular buffer and I ordered one but this didnt seem to fix the problem. Is there a reduced power buffer spring that I could run to resolve this problem?
Whats yalls thoughts?
30 cal slut
03-08-10, 22:29
Just a random update.
I've got about 4,000 rounds through my S&W 5.45 upper.
No problems whatsoever! It has functioned flawlessly.
Having said that, I have been fairly meticulous about keeping the unit clean.
Or so I thought.
Make sure you guys are checking the gas tube and the barrel underneath the handguard or rail - there is enough gas leakage underneath to deposit corrosive material directly on the barrel. I found some rust on mine this evening!
The maintenance I've been doing:
Immediately following shooting, I hit the whole thing with windex. Wipe it down with paper towel, head home.
As soon as I get home, I hose down the entire gun with Slip 2000.
The gas tube gets cleaned twice with Breakfree powder blast.
Decarbonize everything with a paper towel and some Breakfree CLP.
Hit each piece with more Slip 2000 just to make sure the corrosive primer salts are rinsed away.
Scrub the barrel with Butch's Bore Shine.
Lube and coat all parts with weaponshield lube.
That's it. So far so good!
-slut
I don't have one of these but if I did and I was shooting corrosive milsurp out of it, I would take the handguards off and hit it with a lot of running warm water. Down the barrel, down the gas tube, all over the outside of the barrel, front sight base, every. Lots of nice warm water with as much pressure as I can (sink, bathtub, pressure washer).
Then shake it and paper towel it as dry as possible. Then hit everywhere that water could conceivably be hiding with WD40 (which in reality is a Water Displacer). Once that was done I would give it a quick cleaning with M-Pro 7 gun cleaner and then lube it up with whatever lube I am usibng (WeaponShield, Slip2000, mobil 1, whatever) and be done with it.
Jay Cunningham
03-08-10, 22:45
Honestly, unless you plan on having a 5.45mm AR as your favorite safe queen, I don't think you need to have a 14 step voodoo cleaning ritual.
I view mine as a tool to maximize my practice round count and minimize wear and 5.56mm ammo expense. By the time I run through my current stock of 5.45mm my barrel and bolt are both going to be trashed. Time to either replace or rebuild as a 5.56mm (5.45mm ammo availability dependent).
30 cal slut
03-09-10, 06:56
Honestly, unless you plan on having a 5.45mm AR as your favorite safe queen, I don't think you need to have a 14 step voodoo cleaning ritual.
I view mine as a tool to maximize my practice round count and minimize wear and 5.56mm ammo expense. By the time I run through my current stock of 5.45mm my barrel and bolt are both going to be trashed. Time to either replace or rebuild as a 5.56mm (5.45mm ammo availability dependent).
Definitely not a safe queen ... but it is quickly becoming one of my favorites. Mainly, because I shoot it a lot more often than my 5.56 blasters. Also, while the round is filthy and corrosive ... it is wicked accurate.
Given the magazine and maintenance issues, I'm not going to run it in a high round count carbine class, but for regular trigger time on the range ... it is my go-to gun. :D
Man, S&W sure has come a long way!
WD40 purchased in bulk at Costco is a Godsend for 7N6 5.45 shooters. During a 3-day VTAC class, I soaked my BCG in a mix of 90% hot water and 10% Ballistol. I had the BCG plated before the class.
The area under the flash hider is a concern, and I'd try to clean that after any high intensity shooting.
30 cal slut
03-09-10, 07:20
I let mine go without cleaning for 2 days this weekend while at an informal get together/shoot in PA. The bright orange corrosion was certainly there yesterday when I got around to cleaning it and worrisome enough that I would recommend at least rinsing it with Windex or Ballistol and relubing at the end of the first day of a two day class.
Yup, that's what I had on mine last night. Bright orange. And this was AFTER I had windex'd it.
I think the corrosive salts are emulsified in an oily muck ... that muck needs to be dissolved with a solvent or very hot water or be physically removed.
That's why I hit the gun with Slip 2000 after I get the oily muck off.
Im sending mine off to zero fail or there extreme coating job
Maybe someone can help.
I reported a while ago that my 5.45 is failing to lock back on the last round fired.
Well the full story is this was a complete M&Pr rifle. When It was in its complete form it ran 100%. I decided to sell the lower on it and just run my DD lower on all my guns.
This is when the problems started. Now the gun wont lock back on all the mags. I borrowed my bros lower and the problem dissapeared again.
I did notice his lower had a regular buffer and I ordered one but this didnt seem to fix the problem. Is there a reduced power buffer spring that I could run to resolve this problem?
Whats yalls thoughts?
Does anyone out there have any thoughts to solve my bolt failing to lock back issue? Could it be the bad lever?
BLACK LION
03-10-10, 18:40
Does anyone out there have any thoughts to solve my bolt failing to lock back issue? Could it be the bad lever?
What was the difference in components in the lowers that worked vs. the DD???
Superior shooting systems makes a cs flatwire spring thats tuneable. I dont know if it is a fix but its definately a good part to have.
The only difference that I know of are:
Daniel Defense has H buffer and BAD.
I replaced the H buffer with a regular buffer, however I should have compared the buffer springs. I guess my question for anyone is if they know are they different and what buffer spring does the S&Wr have in it?
Failure2Stop
03-10-10, 20:01
Remove the BAD and test fire.
Remove the BAD and test fire.
I will try that at the range tomorrow. I will report back tomorrow.
BLACK LION
03-10-10, 20:22
Remove the BAD and test fire.
This was going to be my recommendation. Beat me to the punch.
I installed one of these recently and I wonder if it is going to cause me problems. It does not seem like it will but it induces more wiggle in the bolt catch than I like.
As far as the springs are concerned there may be variances in them from manufacturer but the stock ones should differ too much...When you get into the chrome silicon flatwire springs there is a difference.
Removing the B.A.D solved the problem. I am back to running a H buffer as well. Kind of sucks because I really liked having the bad on my gun.
However towards the end of shooting I had 2 stuck cases that I had to work hard to get free. The last 2 times I went to the range I have had 2 stuck cases each time. So I managed to trade one problem for another.
I use the chamber brush after each range visit so I am kind of confused and surprised with this happening. I wonder if running my gun wet with Mobil-1 is helping gum it up?
Thoughts?
BLACK LION
03-11-10, 16:49
Removing the B.A.D solved the problem. I am back to running a H buffer as well. Kind of sucks because I really liked having the bad on my gun.
However towards the end of shooting I had 2 stuck cases that I had to work hard to get free. The last 2 times I went to the range I have had 2 stuck cases each time. So I managed to trade one problem for another.
I use the chamber brush after each range visit so I am kind of confused and surprised with this happening. I wonder if running my gun wet with Mobil-1 is helping gum it up?
Thoughts?
What mags are u runnin??? I dont think it is the Mobil 1 ...
I am running the 5.45 c product mags.
After I fired the round the spent case was left stuck in the chamber. :eek:
Littlelebowski
03-11-10, 19:13
Mine works perfectly with the BAD. I have the oddball 5.45. Never have any problems.
Labowski - you need to stop responding to this thread. You blow the curve on every problem.
PS - mine is still running with the occasional mag feed issue. Cproducts all. Too cheap to buy that enhance follower...yet.
If it would have been for the BAD casing failure to lock my bolt back I would have went around the first 1.5k rounds with only an occasional feeding issue until I had these rash of stuck cases.
I got some new cleaning supplies arriving tomorrow, so I plan to do a detailed strip and clean. Hopefully next week when I shoot again the issue is gone.
Jay Cunningham
03-11-10, 21:53
Scrub-a-dub-dub that chamber but also check your extractor spring and insert. I would also recommend an o-ring in these as well, if you are not already running one.
Removing the B.A.D solved the problem. I am back to running a H buffer as well. Kind of sucks because I really liked having the bad on my gun.
However towards the end of shooting I had 2 stuck cases that I had to work hard to get free. The last 2 times I went to the range I have had 2 stuck cases each time. So I managed to trade one problem for another.
I use the chamber brush after each range visit so I am kind of confused and surprised with this happening. I wonder if running my gun wet with Mobil-1 is helping gum it up?
Thoughts?
I don't think Mobil1 is the problem, unless, you have it in your chamber. There it may react with the laquer to cause stuck cases. The chamber should be DRY! I'm lucky as though the first 1,500 rounds I only had 1 failure to feed and I lay this at the feet of a C-product mag. I numbered all of my mags and when I get a problem with them I put a mark on it. So far only 1 problem out of 16 C-products mags with the original followers.
BLACK LION
03-12-10, 10:31
also check your extractor spring and insert. I would also recommend an o-ring in these as well, if you are not already running one.
Bingo...
Superior shooting systems makes a good extractor spring.
FYI: Copes has 5.45 c product mags for 10.99 with a flat rate of 7.99 shipping.
Went to the range today after a good cleaning with Slip 2000 and Eezox.
This time shot 314 rounds of surplus 545 and had one stuck case that was not stuck as bad as my prior ones.
The stuck case occured around round 194 and then i fired another 120 shots with out issues. The prior two range trips I started having stuck cases around round count 120 and then I would get the next one within the next 40 rounds.
So it seems the cleaning made a difference but did not solve the problem.
After stripping down my gun i did notice the extacter spring had 4 coils. I am going to order a BCM extracter upgrade kit and report back.
Globemaster
03-16-10, 22:27
my latest project ... retrofitting this 5.45 UR with a TNW® Gas Piston System™
Web-link >>> TNW Firearms, Inc. (http://tnwfirearms.com/ar_gas_piston_kit.shtml)
The GAS piston assembly kit is now available for all barrel lengths with the following barrel diameters (measured 1.5 inches inboard of the site): 0.875, 0.850, or 0.640. This covers most barrels in the 16" barrel range including the M4. The kit includes all the items shown in the picture on the left. Please specify barrel length as Carbine, Mid length or Rifle. Mid length and Rifle size Kits require a modified quad rail forearm that is sold separately starting at $100. Prices may vary depending on the Rifles Barrel length.
TNW has developed a low-pressure, long-stroke gas piston design. Why a long stroke? In order to keep from "hammering" the bolt as the short stroke designs do. We have slowed down the acceleration of the bolt mass and instead accelerated it over a greater distance. The result is less shock forces on the system, longer lasting parts and reliable feeding. It's the difference between unlocking your bolt with a ball peen hammer or accelerating it on a cushion of air!
the 5.45 UR dismantled
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2263.jpg
the 5.45 w/ the TNW® GPS Kit
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2265.jpg
close up of the TNW® GPS Kit
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2273.jpg
close up of the BCG w/ gas-key remove, and the new gas-block installed.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2270.jpg
close up of the 5.45 barrel (area) that will require being cut-down from its existing diameter of .955 to accommodate the installation of the GPS cylinder, without the use of the shims.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2273.jpg
BLACK LION
03-17-10, 15:16
Went to the range today after a good cleaning with Slip 2000 and Eezox.
This time shot 314 rounds of surplus 545 and had one stuck case that was not stuck as bad as my prior ones.
The stuck case occured around round 194 and then i fired another 120 shots with out issues. The prior two range trips I started having stuck cases around round count 120 and then I would get the next one within the next 40 rounds.
So it seems the cleaning made a difference but did not solve the problem.
After stripping down my gun i did notice the extacter spring had 4 coils. I am going to order a BCM extracter upgrade kit and report back.
You should be GTG once you rework that bolt.
Failure2Stop
03-17-10, 17:24
my latest project ... retrofitting this 5.45 UR with a TNW® Gas Piston System™
I have to say, the concept of spending money to drop a piston system into a 5.45 AR seems contradictory to me.
If you get a 5.45 to maximise your training dollar, why not just drop the cost of the conversion into ammo and call it good?
BLACK LION
03-17-10, 20:06
I have to say, the concept of spending money to drop a piston system into a 5.45 AR seems contradictory to me.
If you get a 5.45 to maximise your training dollar, why not just drop the cost of the conversion into ammo and call it good?
Nevermind....
just incase anyone is thinking of taking the plunge, aim has 5 complete rifles left at 880 which is a pretty good price imo
\http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SW811011
Globemaster
03-18-10, 22:47
I have to say, the concept of spending money to drop a piston system into a 5.45 AR seems contradictory to me.
I guess that would be my choice ‘right’ and for your information: the TNW® GPS™ Kit was purchased “slightly used” and it also came with the bolt-carrier as an added ‘Bonus’ from the seller, so it’s not really a factor, as I paid less than half what they retail for new; and my only real intent with the GPS™ on the 5.45x39mm is to get the ‘retched stench’ of the powder down range; in order for me to run the UR a little harder! when I do have an opportunity, to get some range time.
If you get a 5.45 to maximize your training dollar
I build and assemble them for my own personal enjoyment and nothing more; here are a couple of images of my first attempt at a ‘Retro’ish’ … it’s a 5.45x39mm unit, and it’s configured as an XM177.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/globemaster_oly/Complete03.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/globemaster_oly/DSCN8597.jpg
why not just drop the cost of the conversion into ammo and call it good?
well, for a few of reasons …
1) I transitioned into the 5.45x39mm a couple years ago; simply to save some coin on the rising cost of the 5.56/223
2) I visited that vendor’s Booth at SHOT, and liked what I saw in the manufactures product.
3) the GPS™ Kit installation, is just another project, and meant to feed my ever evolving BRD® affection … as it tends to progresses through stages.
4) and finally, the 5.45x39mm ammunition is still inexpensive enough that it’s just not a issue.
Update: I dropped the barrel and piston block off at the machine shop this afternoon, and I should be able to re-assemble the UR next week sometime.
Jay Cunningham
03-18-10, 22:51
just incase anyone is thinking of taking the plunge, aim has 5 complete rifles left at 880 which is a pretty good price imo
\http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SW811011
That is almost making me want to buy another... must resist...
Failure2Stop
03-19-10, 05:45
I build and assemble them for my own personal enjoyment and nothing more
*
Got it. No problem with making something "just 'cuz", I just have a different view of the purpose of the 5.45 AR.
Has anyone heard of Ballistic Advantage, LLC? You can get a 5.45 barrel cut to the length you want and they then melonite the inside and outside of it. Barrel cost is 245. You can also get a 5.45 bolt that is ionbonded for 100 bucks.
I wouldn't mind an 18" barrel with rifle length gas system in 5.45.
Palmetto Armory in NC has C-Product mags for both the 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 on sale for $9.95 each. Best price I've seen so far.
Few weeks back I ran 300 rds through a single 7.62x39 C-Products 30 rounder in my Colt Sporter...with ZERO malfunctions.
FN in MT
Ok damnit, took me 3 days to read all 32 pages, now I have to go ahead and get one, and a couple thousand rounds of surplus. :D
One question though, on page 14 I think there was a discussion about cutting the legs on the p-mag followers and getting them to work. Was this ever attempted, and did it work?
Littlelebowski
03-20-10, 17:07
One question though, on page 14 I think there was a discussion about cutting the legs on the p-mag followers and getting them to work. Was this ever attempted, and did it work?
It won't work. The OAL is too long for the rounds. However, EMags work well, download to 20 or so rounds.
Ok damnit, took me 3 days to read all 32 pages, now I have to go ahead and get one, and a couple thousand rounds of surplus. :D
One question though, on page 14 I think there was a discussion about cutting the legs on the p-mag followers and getting them to work. Was this ever attempted, and did it work?
It was a thought I had, but I didn't follow up on it. I couldn't find any spare PMag followers to experiment on. And it was kind of a dumb idea.
FWIW Palmetto State Armory has 5.45 mags (and Lancer, TD ARC and those Korean HK style mags) on sale for 9.95. Great deal.
Well hell, we caught a fire call right before I ordered the last upper from Aim. When we got back it was sold out.... :mad:
Oh well, I went ahead and ordered 2 tins of ammo, so when it's back in stock I'll be ready to go. Plus this will spread the dinero out a little bit, so the warden;), I mean my honey bunny won't be so critical. LOL
Also I currently have one of Bill Springfield's triggers in a Spike's lower.
Was the consensus, that the Springfield trigger with the speed hammer will detonate the primers, or will I still have to use the heavy trigger spring?
Was the consensus, that the Springfield trigger with the speed hammer will detonate the primers, or will I still have to use the heavy trigger spring?
I am still having to use the heavy hammer spring.
What about using a lighter ie titanium, or heavier firing pin and using the springfield trigger?
Or maybe shaving down the firing pin shoulder to make the firing pin longer for more depth of strike?
The one thing I'm worried about is a 10 -12 pound trigger pull. I know if my life depended on it I would not notice the pull weight, but sitting at the range where I will be shooting it most often will definitely be a minus. I loves my 3lbs pull, and I group much better with it too.
Littlelebowski
03-21-10, 15:18
I need to have my trigger pull measured because I'm using the extra power hammer spring and I like it.
I have been trying to track down some enhanced 545 followers. Does anyone have any for sell or know of anyone selling any?
thanks.
Littlelebowski
03-22-10, 11:20
I have been trying to track down some enhanced 545 followers. Does anyone have any for sell or know of anyone selling any?
thanks.
Buy some EMAGs.
30 cal slut
03-22-10, 11:46
I'm gonna try to plop a Geissele SSA trigger with the orange hammer spring into my lower.
Anyone happen to try this with a S&W 5.45 x 39 upper?
-slut
Jay Cunningham
03-22-10, 11:54
My personal opinion is that I have one of these for high-volume practice. I have it because it is cheap to run.
Like F2S alluded to earlier, I can't imagine putting $175 triggers and $23 magazines (which aren't even designed for 5.45mm) into a rifle which I plan to burn 10,000 rounds of corrosive ammo through in flat-range practice.
Free country, though.
Littlelebowski
03-22-10, 11:57
My personal opinion is that I have one of these for high-volume practice. I have it because it is cheap to run.
Like F2S alluded to earlier, I can't imagine putting $175 triggers and $23 magazines (which aren't even designed for 5.45mm) into a rifle which I plan to burn 10,000 rounds of corrosive ammo through in flat-range practice.
Free country, though.
I like the EMAG thing because they're truly dual purpose and I want to see if they spread like my Lancers I use for 5.45. So, I ordered two after seeing how well the EMAGs do in my friend's 5.45. I'll report back but I've already seen the EMAGs work and work well.
As far as the trigger, I agree. It's a carbine, not a danged precision rifle.
Will the emag follower fit in a c product mag?
Littlelebowski
03-22-10, 16:57
Will the emag follower fit in a c product mag?
I have no idea. I'll check once I get my EMAGs.
I have no idea. I'll check once I get my EMAGs.
It would be interesting to see if they do fit and then if they help reliability.
Why would anyone expect the EMAG follower to fit in a C products mag any more than we expect the PMAG follower to fit? The EMAG is a variation of the PMAG and both have followers custom designed to fit their own internal geometry.
Why would anyone expect the EMAG follower to fit in a C products mag any more than we expect the PMAG follower to fit? The EMAG is a variation of the PMAG and both have followers custom designed to fit their own internal geometry.
I wouldnt expect them to fit, but if the emags can be down loaded to run 545 rounds then one can hope.
I would just like to find a more relaible follower then my c product followers, and apparently I missed out when the enhanced 545 followers were being offered.
Looked through the thread but didn't find anything about it. Wanted to know if anyone knows about the gas situation on this in a 20" configuration?
vicious_cb
03-23-10, 21:34
My personal opinion is that I have one of these for high-volume practice. I have it because it is cheap to run.
Like F2S alluded to earlier, I can't imagine putting $175 triggers and $23 magazines (which aren't even designed for 5.45mm) into a rifle which I plan to burn 10,000 rounds of corrosive ammo through in flat-range practice.
Free country, though.
Well my main carbine has a SSA in it. So wouldnt it make sense to have the same trigger pull in your training carbine as well?
I'm gonna try to plop a Geissele SSA trigger with the orange hammer spring into my lower.
Anyone happen to try this with a S&W 5.45 x 39 upper?
-slut
The SSA hammer spring is already extra power. Ive been using it with the stock hammer spring with no problems.
Globemaster
03-27-10, 13:15
UPDATE:
my latest project ... retrofitting this 5.45 UR with a TNW® Gas Piston System™
Web-link >>> TNW Firearms, Inc. (http://tnwfirearms.com/ar_gas_piston_kit.shtml)
The GAS piston assembly kit is now available for all barrel lengths with the following barrel diameters (measured 1.5 inches inboard of the site): 0.875, 0.850, or 0.640. This covers most barrels in the 16" barrel range including the M4. The kit includes all the items shown in the picture on the left. Please specify barrel length as Carbine, Mid length or Rifle. Mid length and Rifle size Kits require a modified quad rail forearm that is sold separately starting at $100. Prices may vary depending on the Rifles Barrel length.
TNW has developed a low-pressure, long-stroke gas piston design. Why a long stroke? In order to keep from "hammering" the bolt as the short stroke designs do. We have slowed down the acceleration of the bolt mass and instead accelerated it over a greater distance. The result is less shock forces on the system, longer lasting parts and reliable feeding. It's the difference between unlocking your bolt with a ball peen hammer or accelerating it on a cushion of air!
the 5.45 UR dismantled
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2263.jpg
the 5.45 w/ the TNW® GPS Kit
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2265.jpg
close up of the TNW® GPS Kit
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2273.jpg
close up of the BCG w/ gas-key remove, and the new gas-block installed.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2270.jpg
close up of the 5.45 barrel (area) that will require being cut-down from its existing diameter of .955 to accommodate the installation of the GPS cylinder, without the use of the shims.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2273.jpg
Globemaster
03-27-10, 13:17
UPDATE:
the barrels new profile cut to accommodate the ‘cylinder-block and clam’
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2286.jpg
gas tube installed, FSB and parts being laid out for assembly
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2288.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2289.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2295.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2303.jpg
installing the receiver, piston, pushrod, and spring assembly.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2310.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2314.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2320.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2323.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2329.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2334.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2337.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2339.jpg
completed installation
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2341.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2346.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2352.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2356.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2336.jpg
jeremy stanke
03-28-10, 02:06
Quick update i went close to 15k rounds before i had to clean mine. in less than 8 months.
all surplus ammo. it finally gave me fits at super daves class. cleaned it and its running top notch again
heck, i hope this isnt the one i might be buying from you. haha
i totally forgot i was a member over here until i was looking up some more info. on the 5.45 ar's tonight. looks like there are a lot of familiar names over here
Is anyone running a sprinco extra power buffer spring and an H2 buffer? If so what are your thoughts?
So as far as building a 5.45 goes, not too much to take into account other than buffer weight and hammer spring, right?
I'm considering just building one with a 5.45 barrel if I can find one and maybe just going with an A2 or ACE ARFX stock since I don't shoot with armor/vests on.
I found that when I ran a 16" carbine barrel with an A2 stock before that it ran great in .223, so I don't think the combo would be all that different in 5.45.
Ok a few more question.
Does the complete M&P15R come with a heavy buffer, or is it a regular carbine buffer?
I ask this as Thursday I will be ordering my upper to go on a Spike's lower, but it currently has a regular carbine buffer.
Will performance decrease without the heavy buffer, or can I go as is until later? Or is it simply a matter of longevity?
And Finally, are the new uppers still shipping with the enlarged gas tube, or have they reduced this back to a more normal diameter?
Not sure if S&W changed anything recently but my complete M&P15R came with a regular carbine buffer. I did change out the buffer and spring to a H2 with a Springco spring but can't say i really noticed the difference. I may take the old buffer and spring to the range and try them back to back.
Mine came with a carbine buffer as well. Currently running an H2.
Globemaster
03-31-10, 20:18
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2365.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2363.jpg
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/AR15_Oly1/DSCN2359.jpg
Woo hoo! Just ordered my upper! Got a good deal too!
Ordered from Cal's Armory, and it was 569.46 with free UPS shipping. Should be here next week I imagine. They had several more, according to the page if anyone wants to jump on the bandwagon. This was the cheapest I could find. I'll leave some feedback about the transaction once it's here.
Ok, another question in search of a light trigger or at least normal trigger pull when it get's here.
I have the Springfield 3lb trigger with Speed hammer installed as of now, and it is awesome. What would be the effects of JB welding some weight, to the back of the hammer?
Seems like this would add a little mass to the hammer and aide in primer strike velocity. Anyone think of this? It seems this would speed up the hammer yet still use the light springs, and the extra centrifugal force would lead to a harder firing pin strike. Am I way off base with this?
If I'm not a may have to try it without the JB weld, until I figure out if this is a viable option.
Woo hoo! Just ordered my upper! Got a good deal too!
Ordered from Cal's Armory, and it was 569.46 with free UPS shipping. Should be here next week I imagine. They had several more, according to the page if anyone wants to jump on the bandwagon. This was the cheapest I could find. I'll leave some feedback about the transaction once it's here.
Ok, another question in search of a light trigger or at least normal trigger pull when it get's here.
I have the Springfield 3lb trigger with Speed hammer installed as of now, and it is awesome. What would be the effects of JB welding some weight, to the back of the hammer?
Seems like this would add a little mass to the hammer and aide in primer strike velocity. Anyone think of this? It seems this would speed up the hammer yet still use the light springs, and the extra centrifugal force would lead to a harder firing pin strike. Am I way off base with this?
If I'm not a may have to try it without the JB weld, until I figure out if this is a viable option.
Adding weight to the hammer would slow the hammer down, leading to longer lock time(Remember the speed hammer is designed to decrease lock time). The extra weight may lead to a very slightly harder primer strike, but is that necessary-probably not.
I wouldn't do it. Also, if one day the JB weld happens to chip or break off for any reason, it could cause malfunctions by jamming up something.
Well I got my upper in yesterday, well actually the day before. My wife called me to say it was in, but I was at work. Longest night ever, big storm, really good first in house fire, and then sick people the rest of the night. Got about 2hrs sleep, and seemed like it took forever. Kind of like a kid at Christmas.
Well I was gonna nap when I got home, but I was too excited, so I lubed the crap out of it, and headed to the range. I took along 6 Cprod magazines filled to the brim with AIM surplus 5.45x39.
All I can say is "awesome day at the range." I sighted in a 50yrds, using irons. Then I went to the Action Pistol range to practice some movements and volume of fire. I had 0 malfunctions in 180rnds, and I'm using a Spikes Lower with a Springfield 3lbs trigger with the speed hammer upgrade. I did not switch to the heavier hammer spring, and I had absolutely 0 ftf's. It was simply great too, that after all that blasting I didn't have to spend the rest of the day scooping up brass.... Woohoo!!!
Well when I ordered it I also ordered a Troy TRX Extreme battle rail, but the handguards on this seemed to be way thinner than those I've handled in the past, so I may keep this as a KISS carbine and put them on a build or something.
Good thing I found this thread, cause I'm super stoked now!!!
Pathfinder Ops
04-09-10, 11:42
I am a big believer in the boiling water flush, with the WD-40 purge.
+1 to this.
WD40 over time tends to turn gummy.
I've used hot soapy water, then my air compressor...then douche out with BALLISTOL.
Check out ballistol...works very well.
FN in MT
Labowski - you need to stop responding to this thread. You blow the curve on every problem.
PS - mine is still running with the occasional mag feed issue. Cproducts all. Too cheap to buy that enhance follower...yet.
Well Stated!
I have a complete M&PR Rifle and love it. I was fortunate enough to get the later version C-Products Magazines and have not had any problems with them. It always humbles me about how much information I learn on this forum. For instance, I never paid enough attention to notice a difference in the hammer spring, however I have run the upper on a M16 Registered Receiver and had zero problems as well cooking off bursts and mag dumps.
As far as the corrosive thing, Small Arms Review did an article on corrosive ammo and tested several known remedies for mediating the salt situation. SAR found that spraying down the weapon with Windex With Ammonia provided the best results out of several that were also tested.
Good Luck!
LW
Skunkworks
04-10-10, 22:59
Hello everyone.Been reading this thread very carefully(all 34 pages) as i have been very interested in the 5.45 offering from S&W.
Ordered a complete S&W M&P15R rifle off gunbroker NIB for $819.
Also ordered 15 C-Products mags and a Mil-Spec Magpul CTR stock.Have four tins 4320 rounds from AIM on the way as well:D
Should have everything by midweek.Going to use irons for awhile until i can pick what optics to use.Great forum,glad to be here and thanks to everyone for all of the excellent information in this thread.It made the decision to buy the 5.45 an easy one
Well I'm gonna step up and say you won't be disappointed. I got mine this week, and it is great being able to go to the range, and not worry about shooting up all of your expensive ammo. So far mine only has iron sights, but I'm thinking about taking off the Millet 1-4x on my ar and using this one solely.
There going to start doing 3-gun once a month at my club one day, and 5.45 will be much easier to afford. I think I'm gonna buy 2 tins a month for a while, and just stockpile the crap out of it.
I just wish magpul would consider making some pmags in 5.45, so we would have more choices. I know if they did everyone else would follow suit. Lancer..etc
Jay Cunningham
04-11-10, 19:57
WD40 over time tends to turn gummy.
I've used hot soapy water, then my air compressor...then douche out with BALLISTOL.
Check out ballistol...works very well.
FN in MT
Nobody said you lube it with WD-40. You flush the water out with WD-40. Then flush that out with brake parts cleaner.
Ballistol has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, it's not a secret.
Littlelebowski
04-11-10, 20:13
I switched over to straight hot water flush about 8 months ago. That's it. No problems.
I been using Eezox, and ever since I made the switch the gun does not rust. Which is pretty impressive considering the climate I am in. Most bare metal will rust if left alone in the Houston climate. I am really impressed with the Eezox.
Nobody said you lube it with WD-40. You flush the water out with WD-40. Then flush that out with brake parts cleaner.
Ballistol has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, it's not a secret.
Simply passing on useful information.
FN in MT
Skunkworks
04-11-10, 23:59
Well I'm gonna step up and say you won't be disappointed. I got mine this week, and it is great being able to go to the range, and not worry about shooting up all of your expensive ammo. So far mine only has iron sights, but I'm thinking about taking off the Millet 1-4x on my ar and using this one solely.
There going to start doing 3-gun once a month at my club one day, and 5.45 will be much easier to afford. I think I'm gonna buy 2 tins a month for a while, and just stockpile the crap out of it.
I just wish magpul would consider making some pmags in 5.45, so we would have more choices. I know if they did everyone else would follow suit. Lancer..etc
I agree. Cant wait to shoot without worrying that my wallet will scream at me for using up 5.56 ammo.
i wish there was some magpul mags for this rig.Oh well i bought 15 of the C-Prod mags at 9.99 each so hopefully some of them will work correctly.
Im going to stock up every other month on the tins as well until i hit 10K in my stash. shouldnt take long:cool:
I switched over to straight hot water flush about 8 months ago. That's it. No problems.
So you just air dry then lube after the flush?Thats the route i think im going to use.I cant believe how some people avoid corrosive ammo like its the plague for fear of their rifle is going to melt away.Imo just clean it with a little more detail
Cleaning crossive is as simple as windex and gthen to clean all the other build up I use brake cleaner . Iv shot my rifle is quite a few courses put over 8k rounds no problems except for a mag every now and then and a bent charging handle
Littlelebowski
04-14-10, 20:24
OK, it would have been 3 weeks this Saturday that I'd gone since putting over 400 rds of corrosive surplus ammo through my M&15R. I just had time to clean it tonight so I rinsed it out with hot water. Lower, BCG, gas tube, upper, everything.
No corrosion. NONE.
I live in VA. Gun was shot last in Maryland. It is not dry out here. Lube was a mix of Militec and FP10. The weapon is now air drying. This has been my cleaning routine for about 8 months. Before that, my routine was the same except that I would pre-rinse with Windex and then rinse with hot water.
STOP worrying and STOP practicing cleaning voodoo!
Jay Cunningham
04-14-10, 20:37
Everybody would rather worry about their rifle instead of shooting it. It is way more corrosion resistant than your grand-pappy's rifle.
Littlelebowski
04-14-10, 20:54
Everybody would rather worry about their rifle instead of shooting it. It is way more corrosion resistant than your grand-pappy's rifle.
Exactly. Was starting to feel like a 1911 forum :D
I think I'm at 12k rds or so through the pipe. I'd love to scope the bore and see how it's doing. However.....it shoots the same.
30 cal slut
04-15-10, 21:29
i just inspected my 5.45 S&W upper.
i noted some red corrosion on the BCG, in the inside where the cam pin rubs against the inside surface.
this was after i cleaned and windexed the bcg. it was lubed with weapon shield.
a few q-tips later, i am calmed down. :p
30 cal slut
04-15-10, 21:33
has anyone confirmed first-hand that e-mags work with a S&W 5.45 upper?
if not i'll post in a few days.
Skunkworks
04-15-10, 22:08
Picked up my complete S&W 5.45 rifle today from my FFL.Still waiting on my iron rear sights to get here,so i can go shoot this bad boy.
Rifle looks great.Black case that it comes in is a pile of junk,but i guess its better than a cardboard box for shipping purposes.Really pleased with the entire rifles finish.What size boresnake would be the best fit for the 5.45 barrel?
Im thinking an Eotech XPS 2-0 is going on this one very soon.
GermanSynergy
04-16-10, 10:30
OK, it would have been 3 weeks this Saturday that I'd gone since putting over 400 rds of corrosive surplus ammo through my M&15R. I just had time to clean it tonight so I rinsed it out with hot water. Lower, BCG, gas tube, upper, everything.
No corrosion. NONE.
I live in VA. Gun was shot last in Maryland. It is not dry out here. Lube was a mix of Militec and FP10. The weapon is now air drying. This has been my cleaning routine for about 8 months. Before that, my routine was the same except that I would pre-rinse with Windex and then rinse with hot water.
STOP worrying and STOP practicing cleaning voodoo!
I've been shooting my AK-74 with lots of 1976 production Soviet ammo with the same results... No corrosion.
Pathfinder Ops
04-16-10, 10:38
Picked up my complete S&W 5.45 rifle today from my FFL.Still waiting on my iron rear sights to get here,so i can go shoot this bad boy.
Rifle looks great.Black case that it comes in is a pile of junk,but i guess its better than a cardboard box for shipping purposes.Really pleased with the entire rifles finish.What size boresnake would be the best fit for the 5.45 barrel?
Im thinking an Eotech XPS 2-0 is going on this one very soon.
Picked up mine last week just bought 2 cases (2160rds) for $350 yesterday and an itchin to get on the range this weekend.
I bought a new bottle of windex....lol
I concur with the black plastic box mine came in....hunk of crap and in fact the corner is even cracked. Whatever it's not of any use anyway.
I'll share my results next week.
Skunkworks
04-16-10, 12:29
Picked up mine last week just bought 2 cases (2160rds) for $350 yesterday and an itchin to get on the range this weekend.
I bought a new bottle of windex....lol
I concur with the black plastic box mine came in....hunk of crap and in fact the corner is even cracked. Whatever it's not of any use anyway.
I'll share my results next week.
Going to go shoot mine in about an hour if the range isnt full of people.I'll post results as well if i get to shoot some.
Funny you bought some windex,as i picked up a bottle at the store today also
Anyone run ballistics on the common ammo...snip....I don't have a chrono so....
I just finished up a chrono session and I got an average of 2990 fps shooting the Russian mil-surp ammo I received from AIM. Hotter than I figured it would be...
openbolt
Skunkworks
04-16-10, 17:25
well got to fire 90 rounds thru mine a few minutes ago.Functioned flawlessly,no problems to speak of.:cool:
Shot here at my personal range in my back yard at about 55 yards prone with a sandbag for a rest.
Took a few rounds to get it where i wanted to on paper.Just using a iron sight i had laying around at a 3" red circle decal.Then i killed some milk jugs filled with water:D
Very pleased as i had no problems with the mags or stuck cases.
Here is how im cleaning mine.Took it apart and using hot steaming water from my shower head in the tub to rinse off the corrosive salts.Rinsed everything and now its air drying before i use some CLP then lube it up.
Too easy if you ask me,didnt have to do a voodoo dance to clean the salts off
I think this is the best $800 i have spent in a long time seeing as the 90 rounds i shot only cost me less than $10:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/lilrich027/aa015f4a.jpg
Pathfinder Ops
04-16-10, 18:09
well got to fire 90 rounds thru mine a few minutes ago.Functioned flawlessly,no problems to speak of.:cool:
Shot here at my personal range in my back yard at about 55 yards prone with a sandbag for a rest.
Took a few rounds to get it where i wanted to on paper.Just using a iron sight i had laying around at a 3" red circle decal.Then i killed some milk jugs filled with water:D
Very pleased as i had no problems with the mags or stuck cases.
Here is how im cleaning mine.Took it apart and using hot steaming water from my shower head in the tub to rinse off the corrosive salts.Rinsed everything and now its air drying before i use some CLP then lube it up.
Too easy if you ask me,didnt have to do a voodoo dance to clean the salts off
I think this is the best $800 i have spent in a long time seeing as the 90 rounds i shot only cost me less than $10:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/lilrich027/aa015f4a.jpg
Excellent! Thank you.
I'll have mine up as soon as I get out there. Its killing me. Its home and I'm on duty for a 24.
thanks again.
Skunkworks
04-16-10, 18:18
Excellent! Thank you.
I'll have mine up as soon as I get out there. Its killing me. Its home and I'm on duty for a 24.
thanks again.
Anytime,glad i could help a little
Im sure you wont have any problems.Forgot to mention im using the surplus ammo from AIM.Im also using a can of the compressed air you get at walmart to clean the dust out of keyboards with.Gets the stubborn water that gets into the tiny spaces in the lower and upper after you rinse the rifle out.
Let us know how your results are
Pathfinder Ops
04-16-10, 18:48
AHH good idea on the compressed air thing.
Skunkworks
04-17-10, 19:05
Just pulled the trigger on a Eotech XPS 2-0 and a LaRue LT-110 mount for the little 5.45 from LaRue's website.Should be up and running late next week:cool:
Troy rear folding battle sight coming next week .funds pending from payday of course.Pics will be posted when its mounted
30 cal slut
04-18-10, 19:45
Just got back from the range.
I used Mapgul E mags today.
Well, the good news is that you can squeeze about 10 or so rounds in them and they'll work flawlessly. :D
Any more than that, no worky. :(
-slut
Jay Cunningham
04-18-10, 21:14
Why is everyone so hell bent on trying to cram 5.45mm rounds into 5.56mm magazines? Upgrade the springs in the 5.45mm mags and you'll be GTG...
Littlelebowski
04-18-10, 21:32
Why is everyone so hell bent on trying to cram 5.45mm rounds into 5.56mm magazines? Upgrade the springs in the 5.45mm mags and you'll be GTG...
Because if it works, you save money on mags. Witness my positive Lancer experience.
Also, these 5.45 lessons do vary. You upgraded your springs in your mags, I haven't had to. Some folks claim these uppers are overgassed. I haven't noticed any problems with mine but I have been running an H buffer from Day One. Many guys stick with the carbine buffer.
Jay Cunningham
04-18-10, 21:46
Has anyone else besides you successfully run 5.45mm in their Lancers?
30 cal slut
04-18-10, 21:59
Just an FYI, I changed up my cleaning routing because I got a little lazy tonight and because I had multiple guns to clean.
I basically started with a hasty flush of the upper receiver, the BCG, the chamber, the gas tube, and the barrel with Breakfree powder blast. This is to get the non-water soluble gunk off first.
After letting air dry a bit, I wiped down everything to remove residual carbon.
Swabbed the barrel with a wet patch soaked in Butch's Bore Shine a dozen times.
Repeated spraying everything this time with Slip 2000 gun cleaner (diluted in a spray bottle). I also sprayed the exterior of the barrel as well as the front sight base. This is to dissolve any remaining corrosive salts.
I patted everything dry, q-tip the **** out of the flash hider, and liberally apply weapon shield lubricant.
This took all of 20+ minutes. It's a big step for me because it's not unusual for me to spend an hour detailing a damn 5.56 rifle shooting non-corrosive ammo. lol.
-slut
30 cal slut
04-18-10, 22:01
Why is everyone so hell bent on trying to cram 5.45mm rounds into 5.56mm magazines? Upgrade the springs in the 5.45mm mags and you'll be GTG...
Will give it a shot. Just haven't gotten around to upgrading the springs.
Lubing the follower does help...a bit.
Why is everyone so hell bent on trying to cram 5.45mm rounds into 5.56mm magazines? Upgrade the springs in the 5.45mm mags and you'll be GTG...
Do you recall where you got extra power springs? I have been trying to track some down.
vicious_cb
04-18-10, 23:13
Because if it works, you save money on mags. Witness my positive Lancer experience.
Also, these 5.45 lessons do vary. You upgraded your springs in your mags, I haven't had to. Some folks claim these uppers are overgassed. I haven't noticed any problems with mine but I have been running an H buffer from Day One. Many guys stick with the carbine buffer.
How many rounds are you cramming into your lancers?
Skunkworks
04-18-10, 23:52
havent upgraded my springs in my C-Prod mags.No problems with them so far although as said many times before they do seem a bit on the weak side.
Littlelebowski
04-19-10, 05:07
Has anyone else besides you successfully run 5.45mm in their Lancers?
Using the older green follower ones, Failure To stop and my friend who lives out here in NoVA.
I can get 20 in them, often more.
Has anyone else besides you successfully run 5.45mm in their Lancers?
I have 8 Lancers (3 green follower, 5 black follower) that I can cram 22-25 rds in. I get a stuck follower about occasionally, usually related to how long the mag has been sitting around loaded and had time to spread. More spread: more feeding problems. If the mag sits loaded overnight, I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a stuck follower.
I've tried chopping up an AK74 follower to fit in a Lancer, but I haven't been successful yet. It's so close, but so far away.
I started using Lancers since my CP mags were very hit or miss in stock form and I couldn't get any AK74 mag springs to swap out. Since I put the 545ar.com followers in my CP mags, they've run quite well. The geometry of the Tangodown follower is far and away superior to the CP follower. It seems impossible for the rounds to nosedive.
Using the older green follower ones, Failure To stop and my friend who lives out here in NoVA.
I can get 20 in them, often more.
I have a couple of Lancers with the black follower. Can normally get 18-22 in with no issues. The fit is a bit tight in the magwell though.
I have been running a Rev M pmag, no window, with about 20 in pretty consistently as well.
Pathfinder Ops
04-20-10, 10:52
Ok, I took my new M&P 15 chambered in 5.45 out over the weekend.
There is something very satisfying about going to the range knowing you can just shoot till you are satisfied for the time frame you committed to and knowing you will have plenty of ammo left over without having gone bankrupt.
Ok the sequence I shot this target starts top left and goes clockwise in this sequence:
From the bench- 5, 3, 6 (Above the black line)
From standing unsupported- 1, 4, 2 (Below the black line)
Don't ask why I went that way around
I zeroed from 50yds.
Iron sights.
Russian surplus.
Temp was 50deg. F, Bright sun.
Cleaned and oiled with Mobile1 (0W/40).
I shot 14 sets, 5 rounds each set.
When all was set and done, while not "TIGHT" groups they are acceptable for now and frankly it's NOT the gun keeping these groups as big as they are it's me.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/Pathfinder_Operations/General%20Firearm/IMG_3925.jpg?t=1271781365
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/Pathfinder_Operations/General%20Firearm/IMG_3908.jpg?t=1271781544
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww143/Pathfinder_Operations/General%20Firearm/IMG_3921.jpg?t=1271781586
30 cal slut
04-20-10, 14:49
did that upper come from the factory in post-ban configuration?
Pathfinder Ops
04-20-10, 14:55
did that upper come from the factory in post-ban configuration?
I presume you are asking me that question.
That is the way it came from the dealer. I don't know if there is anything different from the factory since I don't know what the factory standard is.
Why do you ask?
Added info- The rear sight did not come with it. I had that from a RRA rifle I had.
30 cal slut
04-20-10, 15:43
was just wondering. might pick up another one for a post-ban build. i live in a state that has similar retarded AWB laws as yours (but at least we can have any mags we want).
You guys should try the "Red" Sprinco action spring and DPMS extra heavy (5.4oz) buffer in these things. Unbelievably light recoil.
http://sprinco.com/tactical.html
Pathfinder Ops
04-20-10, 16:08
was just wondering. might pick up another one for a post-ban build. i live in a state that has similar retarded AWB laws as yours (but at least we can have any mags we want).
Ahhh Well nice to meet you fellow sufferer.....lol ;)
Well Like I said in my post it was my first day down range with it. And I am very pleased thus far.
I put $800 into the gun and $350 for 2160 rounds. A couple bucks worth of windex and a can of compressed air.
So far I'll call it a good endeavor. Especially considering how much I shoot. Heck the ammo savings may pay for it's self by the end of this season if not certainly by next.
Skunkworks
04-20-10, 22:57
Ahhh Well nice to meet you fellow sufferer.....lol ;)
Well Like I said in my post it was my first day down range with it. And I am very pleased thus far.
I put $800 into the gun and $350 for 2160 rounds. A couple bucks worth of windex and a can of compressed air.
So far I'll call it a good endeavor. Especially considering how much I shoot. Heck the ammo savings may pay for it's self by the end of this season if not certainly by next.
Nice shooting on its maiden outing to the range.Im guessing your functioned perfectly as mine did?
I agree with you,its a great feeling to just shoot instead of counting the amount of rounds that you are willing to use up at the range for fear of wasting ammo that costs an arm and a leg to shoot.
Any plans for optics in the future?
Pathfinder Ops
04-21-10, 07:18
Not a single malfunction. Now I only shot about 300 rds, but at least 200 of them I just ran as fast as I could push them through. The idea was to see if I could cause a hang up of some sort.
Time was limited so I couldn't really push it but for what I was able to do I left VERY pleased.
Regarding optics (and other CDI) stuff; NO.
I'm going to leave this one as is. I have a rig that I have tricked out with lots of CDI (Chicks Dig It) stuff.
I have the idea of keeping this as a "truck gun." I was originally going to do that with an Ak platform but after researching this caliber I thought that I would rather have an AR platform for the consistency.
I may mount a light for the obvious reason but that's probably the farthest I'll go. I think I'm gonna just stay with the standard, Old School, GI sling too. Heck it's all I used in 12 years in the Army and I know how to make it work.
Just a random update.
I've got about 4,000 rounds through my S&W 5.45 upper.
No problems whatsoever! It has functioned flawlessly.
Having said that, I have been fairly meticulous about keeping the unit clean.
Or so I thought.
Make sure you guys are checking the gas tube and the barrel underneath the handguard or rail - there is enough gas leakage underneath to deposit corrosive material directly on the barrel. I found some rust on mine this evening!
The maintenance I've been doing:
Immediately following shooting, I hit the whole thing with windex. Wipe it down with paper towel, head home.
As soon as I get home, I hose down the entire gun with Slip 2000.
The gas tube gets cleaned twice with Breakfree powder blast.
Decarbonize everything with a paper towel and some Breakfree CLP.
Hit each piece with more Slip 2000 just to make sure the corrosive primer salts are rinsed away.
Scrub the barrel with Butch's Bore Shine.
Lube and coat all parts with weaponshield lube.
That's it. So far so good!
-slut
My god I could never go through this regimen! I shoot about 300 rounds per outing and just pull the BCG wipe it off and relube heavy with Miltech. So far no rust at all after 3 spam cans. Must have something to do with humidity as we are usually about 30% here in S. Idaho.
Has anyone else besides you successfully run 5.45mm in their Lancers?
i cant even get lancer's to work in m-4's they are crap as far as i am concerned
they have sent me 3 different sample's. in any gun they are a no go for me
colt lowers
r.r. lowers
armalite
i use only h&k and c-products mags both run flawlessly in my 3 5+45's including a 11.5" with a knac's can.
Katr is correct , but i use the stock spring. and they do just fine
Jay Cunningham
04-21-10, 11:43
My god I could never go through this regimen!
Agree. Too much effort for something that is not that big of a deal.
Littlelebowski
04-21-10, 11:45
"de-carbonize" everything? Why? All you need to do is rinse with hot water or Windex and add a little more lube.
Skunkworks
04-21-10, 14:44
Not a single malfunction. Now I only shot about 300 rds, but at least 200 of them I just ran as fast as I could push them through. The idea was to see if I could cause a hang up of some sort.
Time was limited so I couldn't really push it but for what I was able to do I left VERY pleased.
Regarding optics (and other CDI) stuff; NO.
I'm going to leave this one as is. I have a rig that I have tricked out with lots of CDI (Chicks Dig It) stuff.
I have the idea of keeping this as a "truck gun." I was originally going to do that with an Ak platform but after researching this caliber I thought that I would rather have an AR platform for the consistency.
I may mount a light for the obvious reason but that's probably the farthest I'll go. I think I'm gonna just stay with the standard, Old School, GI sling too. Heck it's all I used in 12 years in the Army and I know how to make it work.
sounds like a great plan.I was going to leave mine as is,but just had to try out an Eotech for the heck of it:D Sounds like we both got a good rifle.:cool:
My god I could never go through this regimen! I shoot about 300 rounds per outing and just pull the BCG wipe it off and relube heavy with Miltech. So far no rust at all after 3 spam cans. Must have something to do with humidity as we are usually about 30% here in S. Idaho.
same here.to each his own,but just rinse off the salts and lube it up good.simple without all of those steps imo
Pathfinder Ops
04-21-10, 14:57
"de-carbonize" everything? Why? All you need to do is rinse with hot water or Windex and add a little more lube.
This is all I am expecting to do as well.
It seems to me that some folks turn gun cleaning into a science that almost usurps the joy of going to the range. Don't get me wrong I'm not happy till my gun is clean but the time and money I spend on cleaning should not be equivalent to the time and money I spent shooting.
I clean/ lube my weapon after every day's shooting, no matter what time of day or night I finish.
A couple times a year (MAYBE) I spend an hour + on one gun doing a more detailed cleaning & lube. Even then I only use a couple products. One of which is lube. Elbow grease and patience are in abundance.
I have never had nor do I expect a weapon of mine to rust or fail because of my cleaning regimen. And I put a lot of rounds out per year. Hopefully even more now with the addition of this (cheap whore of a Russian caliber....Yob tvoiu mat'!! HA!) AR.
Has anyone benchrested their 5.45 to see what kind of groups they get?
Littlelebowski
04-23-10, 19:32
Has anyone benchrested their 5.45 to see what kind of groups they get?
Yup. If you read through this thread, you'll see theKatar got 2MOA groups using good ol' Sov surplus.
Jay Cunningham
04-23-10, 19:51
Yup. If you read through this thread, you'll see theKatar got 2MOA groups using good ol' Sov surplus.
Actually that was prone off the magazine and elbows.
;)
hey guys i started noticing some wear on my upper and was wondering if anyone else was having any
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab275/josephbutler1/DSCI0223.jpg
Littlelebowski
04-28-10, 12:40
Need a better pic, lowjack.
sorry thats the best i can do with this camera . it wear fro what lookes like mag insertion. it the white silver specs on the inside of the upper
Littlelebowski
04-28-10, 12:46
Where on the upper? Magwell? Where the charging handle contacts?
I'll try to get some better pics tonight
30 cal slut
05-10-10, 11:07
this isn't going to come as a surprise, but the Geissele SSA trigger works just fine with the S&W 5.45 x 39 upper, with orange S&W hammer spring.
i did not try it with the hammer spring that Geissele furnished (yet). it feels a little less stiff than the S&W spring.
also, through about 6K rounds, slip 2000 has been working for me in keeping the orange demon away.
30 cal slut
05-15-10, 09:32
sorry thats the best i can do with this camera . it wear fro what lookes like mag insertion. it the white silver specs on the inside of the upper
i don't know about wear, but i also am noticing silvery-colored flakes of stuff (chamber and bolt face, etc).
:confused:
-slut
Mine has ran great, no issues at all
vicious_cb
05-16-10, 18:16
this isn't going to come as a surprise, but the Geissele SSA trigger works just fine with the S&W 5.45 x 39 upper, with orange S&W hammer spring.
i did not try it with the hammer spring that Geissele furnished (yet). it feels a little less stiff than the S&W spring.
also, through about 6K rounds, slip 2000 has been working for me in keeping the orange demon away.
It works fine with the geissle hammer spring. You are probably making the trigger feel less nice with the extra power spring.
BLACK LION
05-17-10, 13:13
A couple questions...
For any Saiga owners, how has your rig held up?? For anyone running aftermarket "upgrades", which ones hold up and which ones do not ??? Are there any parts that are a must???
How would you guys outfit a Saiga 5.45(in Kalifornistan btw)?
Optics, rails, operating parts, sling etc...???
BLACK LION
05-17-10, 13:19
It works fine with the geissle hammer spring. You are probably making the trigger feel less nice with the extra power spring.
I agree. Especially since I asked "the man" @ Geisselle and he ademately declined using any other springs other than what the SSA trigger comes with. He said they are more than adequate for harder primers and what not and replacing the springs will mostl likely rob you of "performance". Per Geisselle, there is not need to **** with the SSA one bit... just "set it and forget it".
Littlelebowski
05-17-10, 13:48
A couple questions...
For any Saiga owners, how has your rig held up?? For anyone running aftermarket "upgrades", which ones hold up and which ones do not ??? Are there any parts that are a must???
How would you guys outfit a Saiga 5.45(in Kalifornistan btw)?
Optics, rails, operating parts, sling etc...???
Start a new thread in the appropriate spot.
BLACK LION
05-17-10, 15:45
Start a new thread in the appropriate spot.
Thought about that approach since I have a 7.62x39 Saiga and had a similar question for that rig as well.
Ran through 300 rounds today with only 3 malfunctions ...one with each of 3 CP mags
No light primer strikes now that I switched to the S&W spring
Lots of fun to shoot.....and the RRA lower I put it on worked fine
Decided it is a keeper, so it got the AlumahydeII treatment this afternoon, now that I have a dedicated lower
Have you taken the mag issue up with CP? In the past I have had excellent success with their 5.56 mags. I wonder if they have not perfected the 5.45 mags yet. And have they perfected the 6.8 mags?
Failure2Stop
05-21-10, 09:27
Have you taken the mag issue up with CP? In the past I have had excellent success with their 5.56 mags. I wonder if they have not perfected the 5.45 mags yet. And have they perfected the 6.8 mags?
CP is notorious for bad mags.
This has been covered many times.
That isn't to say that all CP mags are bad, just a significant percentage to prevent many from having to send mags back and forth until they are fixed/replaced.
Guys, I have a couple questions and I apologize if it's been covered but I simply don't have the time to read through 37 pages! And I simply have not been following this subject to know even the first thing about it. :o
Will these uppers work on any standard lower receiver? Is there anything about the lower that is 5.45 specific?
Are the S&W OEM lowers stamped 5.45mm?
Basically I have a ton of 5.45 on hand and a spare PWA lower. I'm thinking of picking up an upper and some mags and wanted to make sure I could do that without any issues.
Thanks!
Failure2Stop
05-21-10, 09:48
The S&W uppers come with an extra power hammer spring.
Stick it in, get some mags, and you are good to go.
If you don't get the hammer spring, the Wolff extra-power spring works fine.
BLACK LION
05-21-10, 10:41
I have had success with my CP 6.8 mags, albeit with the magpul follwers.
For 12.00 or less is much less painful than spending 40.00 on a mag that gives the same headache
Littlelebowski
05-22-10, 11:25
For those of you practicing cleaning voodoo, I found this excellent writeup on the subject from T. Mark "Gunplumber" Graham and am reproducing it with his permission.
"corrosive" is salt.
Salt does not dissolve in oil.
Salt dissolves in water.
Salt dissolves better in hot water.
Soap does not dissolve salt. Soap is a surfactant. A surfactant reduces the surface tension of the water so that it is less viscous, it "flows" better and penetrates better.
Hot water evaporates faster.
I plop my guns in the utility sink and rinse with hot water. Then blow-dry with compressed air.
Everyone wants their own special formula, but the bottom line is: water. Hot water, or water + surfactant may have a marginal difference, but no oil-based product is going to help.
An analogy is hot peppers. They are oil based (oleoresin capsaisin). Oil dissolves in fat (milk) and in alcohol (beer!). No amount of water is going to make the hot peppers not hot.
I had picked up heavy duty Wagner power steamer at Costco. It works great.
Shot my 5.45 upper yesterday, steamed, cleaned, then lubed.
If salts don't like heat, then there are none left with this thing. It really heats up the gun and then dries with a quick wipe. Very easy.
Ps other steamers I have used did not work so well. Ymmv.
BLACK LION
05-24-10, 15:03
I still have a couple thousand rounds to put through both the 7.62 and 5.45 before cleaning.
I have had success with carb or brake cleaner on 2k+ worth of grime so far.
I would like to say I would get the steamer but it wont work without a power source. I do need one anyway though.
30 cal slut
06-01-10, 08:34
It works fine with the geissle hammer spring. You are probably making the trigger feel less nice with the extra power spring.
I confirmed this yesterday, with an entire green spam can of russian surplus ammo. Geissele SSA works fine with supplied hammer spring.
Thing still runs like a top at 7k+ rounds.
To my dismay, the portion of the gas tube that is visible in the inside of the upper receiver is rusting. I am tempted to disassemble the upper and see how the rest of the gas tube is faring. (I've been religious about flushing it out after each use).
Additionally, my gas tube roll pin is also rusting. Treated it with CLP last night.
Littlelebowski
06-01-10, 08:38
I would be very surprised if it has rusted. Try hosing it off with non chlorinated brake cleaner.
30 cal slut
06-01-10, 08:40
I would be very surprised if it has rusted. Try hosing it off with non chlorinated brake cleaner.
Will do tonight (need to stop by Home Depot Tactical lol).
Will try to post a pic as well.
30 cal slut
06-01-10, 08:52
One more thing:
An anecdote on perceived recoil impulse of the S&W M&P 15 5.45 x 39 upper vs. Colt 5.56 ... (both 16 civilian length barrels).
I'm beginning to appreciate the differences.
The 5.56 is, for lack of a better description, "crunchier." It feels more crisp and shorter than the 5.45.
"crunchier."
Thats good! You bringing it to Vickers Slut?
PS - Put about 300rnds through mine today - finishing second Spam can. Still fairly pristine shape - it gets a 135degree hot water bath followed by a 100psi air drying. Gets a good shot/spray of Ballistol before going to bed. I am still using my stock C-Products without any issues - trying to follow Littlelebowski's footsteps...
Littlelebowski
06-01-10, 19:07
trying to follow Littlelebowski's footsteps...
Not always the best idea :D
Failure2Stop
06-01-10, 19:18
I had one CP mag go tits up on me- inner fold of the box is definately bent in, causing failures to feed. Mine do not like to take more than about 20 rounds, especially on the odd side. With 30, all are a pain in the ass to run the CH from the bolt forward position. I had more than a few stoppages, but since it is a training rig only I don't mind all that much.
On a side note, the S&W barrel with surplus 5.45 is suprisingly accurate. At 100 yards I was punching in 1" 3 round groups with a T1 and 3x magnifier while zeroing. I haven't done any dedicated accuracy testing because I don't care that much and it isn't the purpose of the rig anyway.
30 cal slut
06-02-10, 09:09
You bringing it to Vickers Slut?
I don't think it will be my primary gun, as much as I'd like to save $$$ on ammo. I'll think about it ... my only concern at this point is having enough reliable mags to make it through the class w/o interruptions.
As an aside ... is anyone else noticing that it is tougher to clear double-feeds with the 5.45? I was doing malf drills the other day and it took me a while to fingerbang the cartridtges out of the longer chamber.
Does anyone know if a standard 5.56 extractor will work on the 5.45 bolt? Mine broke....called S&W and they said it would take about 4 weeks and I would have to ship out the whole upper shipping paid by them but that's still quite a while. :(
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