View Full Version : I am taking the 5.45x39mm plunge! updated 09-23-09
jjw
p.s. fact of any mag:
u CAN NOT LOAD any 5x45 or 7.62 ar mag more than 26-27 rds. .
Since when?? I have always loaded my ASC 5.45 mags to 30, and they function fine.
We need to petition one of the plastic mag companies.
I wonder if Tapco could basically take their AR mag and combine it with their AK-74 mag. While it isn't likely to be that easy the company does have experience with making mags in both calibers for several different rifles.
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Forget crapco , lets talk to Magpul or Troy.
Normally I'd agree but I don't know if Troy or Magpul have much interest in doing little one-off type projects.
I'll email Tapco just to see if they've got any interest.
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I see a charge on my credit card from Ammunition Storage Containers. I suppose this means the 5.45 mags I ordered back in December are finally going to ship.
No response yet from Tapco. Maybe that is their response...
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I heard back from Tapco. I'm told that they've talked about 5.45 AR mags before but that's about all they've done. Maybe that will change if the 5.45 AR market takes off again. I don't think I'll be holding my breath.
Interestingly enough Tapco is owned by Remington now. I would have thought it would be the other way around...
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Hmm. Just searched the web for the Tapco/Remington deal. Turns out that was last year. I think I'll crawl back under my rock now.
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I mostly use some older CP mags for my 5.45 guns. Its kind of weird how well they work because honestly, they look like crap. The seams are all misaligned, feed lips on many are higher on one side. But they work for me...I don't remember ever having a single issue with them.
I also started using some ASC's. These look better in terms of build quality, and they function fine.
BTW, I load all of my 5.45 mags to 30. My problem with loading them to full capacity is not with function...its only that some are pretty tough to keeping pushing rounds into beyond 24 or 25.
You guys that are trying it, any update on how the water-soluble stuff is working for you for cleaning after corrosive?
Ned: Based on the replies from the guys who are trying it, sounds like it's working well. Can you please let the rest of us know what it is and where we can buy some? Thanks!
Forget crapco , lets talk to Magpul or Troy.
and u have how many 5x45 mags to say are bad. ?????????????
i am doubtful u have been in this platform as long as 2 -3 of us on here have
my 1st 5x45 came form earnie langdon when he was at s&w. oh btw he designed the weapon.
have 3 uppers including the only 11.5" smith ever made
all run perfectley with good mags.
11.5" factory
10.5 local gunsmith did perfectly
16" factory
jjw
waiting for ur f.n.v not ur "i read"
i defend this gun because it was a cheap platform. knew "obam-mama" would be back (like herpes & samsonite) and could ban imports. se we bought 20k rds for practice.
and what did u pay for ammo last jauary ????
and u have how many 5x45 mags to say are bad. ?????????????
i am doubtful u have been in this platform as long as 2 -3 of us on here have
my 1st 5x45 came form earnie langdon when he was at s&w. oh btw he designed the weapon.
have 3 uppers including the only 11.5" smith ever made
all run perfectley with good mags.
11.5" factory
10.5 local gunsmith did perfectly
16" factory
jjw
waiting for ur f.n.v not ur "i read"
i defend this gun because it was a cheap platform. knew "obam-mama" would be back (like herpes & samsonite) and could ban imports. se we bought 20k rds for practice.
and what did u pay for ammo last jauary ????
Sorry, but what is your point again? :help:
Ned Christiansen
09-06-13, 13:27
Ned: Based on the replies from the guys who are trying it, sounds like it's working well. Can you please let the rest of us know what it is and where we can buy some? Thanks!
OK.... here goes my chance to get that yaght and Ferraroghini I've been eyeballing by buying an off the shelf industrial product and repackaging it in small quantities as Tactical RETCH STUFF:
Really Enhanced Tactical Cleaning H20-Soluble Tactical Unbelievably Friggin' eFective stuff.
Wait, that's using "stuff" twice. Hm.
And oh yeah, I would definitely use "Tactical" twice :D.
Actually I guess that would be three times..... no problem!
It is simply water-soluble coolant for machining. There are many brands and types out there. I've never seen one that was specifically optimized for aluminum or other non-ferrous metals but I'd say they might not be the best for our applications since what we need is something that is watery to dissolve the salts but specifically has rust preventatives in it. The thing is I don't know of any place where it's available in less than 5-gallon quantities-- which at the mix rates most of them use would getcha about 100 gallons of cleaning solution.
I'll look again to see what mine is but Cimkool or Cimcool was one I used quite a bit years ago, it was pink and nothing but nothing ever rusted around it. It was a Cincinnatti Milacron product.
I talked to Marvin a couple days ago. He says he finally got a 5.45 reamer from Pacific but the throat is way undersized. He is sending it back for exchange.
On another note, I received the ASC magazines I ordered right around the time of the Sandy Hook killings. They don't appear to really be any different other than the markings on the base pads. These new ones have writing that's a bit blockier than other ASC mags I've seen.
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Have been shooting an Alexander Arms Genghis .21 for about 10 years and am a big proponent of the AR in 5.45.
Russian mil spec 7N6 has been very reliable and accurate but most 2003 5.45x39 imports, especially Wolf had random problems with failure to feed, failure to extract and failure to fire.
Have pretty much stuck to 7N6 which is generally proven to be very high quality ammo so I am not sure if the commercial 5.45 steel case quality has improved over time.
Originally, the mag of choice was HK Naval Spec high reliability mags down loaded to 25 rds which was a reliable solution.
The C-Products mags also work well, load 29 rds and are reliable except for two bad mags that had persistent function problems, but the C-products seem kind of like an after thought from a design perspective. Once again, my experience is not with recent production examples.
FWIW, IWI is putting a 5.45 x 39 conversion on the market for their TAVOR which includes a purpose designed 5.45 x39 magazine with NATO GI STANAG form factor and 5.56 and AR compatible feed geometry, it could be the read deal solution to those of us looking for a fully developed and tested mil spec AR compatible mag in 5.45.
The Tavor in 5.45x39 has been adopted by one of the Eastern Bloc militaries and is in routine use so the mags must work reliably in both semi auto and full auto.
For cleaning, lots of very hot soapy (I use Tide detergent) water and a polymer barrel and cleaning brush to flush and remove the corrosive salts followed by Ballistol or Old Spec GI bore cleaner containing nitro benzene to fully clean and neutralize salts and lubricate.
Nitro benzene was the key chemical for cleaning guns shooting with black powder and corrosive ammo before the safety Nazis took over because it solvates and removes both the corrosive salts and carbon residue. Back in the sixties, mice soaked in nitro benzene showed a statistically higher rate of cancer than mice not soaked. Based on these tests, It has been removed from Hoppes #9 and GI Spec cleaning fluid due to cancer and health concerns and there is no single cleaning chemical that can replace it.
FWIW, if one were to take Ed's Red formula ( I prefer Mobil One Synthetic ATF) and substitute ammonium soap (Ammonium oleate) used in place of lanolin for copper scrubbing and add 3.5 oz of Nitro Benzene per 30 oz of the modified Ed's Red Mixture for corrosive salts removal one would find that it makes a good carbon and corrosive salt bore cleaner/lubricant/corrosion inhibitor for use with corrosive ammo where water is not available.
It is also is considered toxic and carcinogenic by todays OSHA standards so getting it on skin is not a good idea so I certainly would not endorse using it personally.
If the gun will be stored for any length of time the bore is scrubbed with ACF 50 with or Corrosion X and the action sprayed down as well to inhibit corrosion and it's good for year if you worry about such things.
Contrary to popular belief, Windex does not have ammonia in it, only a water based detergent combined with a chemical called butyl cellosolve to lift and emulsify contaminants.
Have been shooting an Alexander Arms Genghis .21 for about 10 years and am a big proponent of the AR in 5.45.
Russian mil spec 7N6 has been very reliable and accurate but most 2003 5.45x39 imports, especially Wolf had random problems with failure to feed, failure to extract and failure to fire.
Have pretty much stuck to 7N6 which is generally proven to be very high quality ammo so I am not sure if the commercial 5.45 steel case quality has improved over time.
Originally, the mag of choice was HK Naval Spec high reliability mags down loaded to 25 rds which was a reliable solution.
The C-Products mags also work well, load 29 rds and are reliable except for two bad mags that had persistent function problems, but the C-products seem kind of like an after thought from a design perspective. Once again, my experience is not with recent production examples.
FWIW, IWI is putting a 5.45 x 39 conversion on the market for their TAVOR which includes a purpose designed 5.45 x39 magazine with NATO GI STANAG form factor and 5.56 and AR compatible feed geometry, it could be the read deal solution to those of us looking for a fully developed and tested mil spec AR compatible mag in 5.45.
The Tavor in 5.45x39 has been adopted by one of the Eastern Bloc militaries and is in routine use so the mags must work reliably in both semi auto and full auto.
For cleaning, lots of very hot soapy (I use Tide detergent) water and a polymer barrel and cleaning brush to flush and remove the corrosive salts followed by Ballistol or Old Spec GI bore cleaner containing nitro benzene to fully clean and neutralize salts and lubricate.
Nitro benzene was the key chemical for cleaning guns shooting with black powder and corrosive ammo before the safety Nazis took over because it solvates and removes both the corrosive salts and carbon residue. Back in the sixties, mice soaked in nitro benzene showed a statistically higher rate of cancer than mice not soaked. Based on these tests, It has been removed from Hoppes #9 and GI Spec cleaning fluid due to cancer and health concerns and there is no single cleaning chemical that can replace it.
FWIW, if one were to take Ed's Red formula ( I prefer Mobil One Synthetic ATF) and substitute ammonium soap (Ammonium oleate) used in place of lanolin for copper scrubbing and add 3.5 oz of Nitro Benzene per 30 oz of the modified Ed's Red Mixture for corrosive salts removal one would find that it makes a good carbon and corrosive salt bore cleaner/lubricant/corrosion inhibitor for use with corrosive ammo where water is not available.
It is also is considered toxic and carcinogenic by todays OSHA standards so getting it on skin is not a good idea so I certainly would not endorse using it personally.
If the gun will be stored for any length of time the bore is scrubbed with ACF 50 with or Corrosion X and the action sprayed down as well to inhibit corrosion and it's good for year if you worry about such things.
Contrary to popular belief, Windex does not have ammonia in it, only a water based detergent combined with a chemical called butyl cellosolve to lift and emulsify contaminants.
Only thing needed to remove corrosive salts is water
Beating the dead horse...I tried the 5.45 AR challenge as well. Getting the mags to work has been a real pain. I ordered 8 cproducts mags from a well known distributor. They sent me 7 and one 6.8 mag which I'm sure they will accept in return. 3 of the 7 (5.45x39 mags) consistently had issues with the follower jamming about halfway thru the mag. A GI mag I had laying around ran pretty well but only with a max load capacity of 25. None of the mags would load the first round if loaded to capacity ( the first round nosedived into the upper below the ramps) I never could get the pmag modification to work. I cut the follower per the well advertised instructions but it swelled if loading more than 10 rounds and would not fit into mag well. The other interesting issue was that the follower of the Pmag never stuck up on the front end like some of the pictures I see in the modified Pmag pics. At the end of the day, although the ammo is priced right, I don't think I could ever trust this rifle for any serious work.
Take it for what it's worth... I finally got my 5.45x39 AR running. After trying several iterations of mags, (Cproducts, ASC, Pmag conversion that never worked and GI mags w/green followers). Here is what worked for me. A few GI mags worked. I don't know why, but some worked without any mods at all. Cproducts and ASC worked but only after I put a thin film of TW-25 grease on the inside (otherwise I predominantly had problems with followers sticking). My definition of "worked" is: cycled several iterations of full 30 round loads without a single failure. I am now pretty happy with the rig. It runs really well. Accuracy is so-so with the surplus ammo...about 3 m.o.a..
Thanks for all the cleaning advise. Water works fine. I tried dunking it in the tub but then had to scrub a grime ring off the tub afterwards. Not worth the effort so sticking to the garden hose, carb cleaner and WD-40.
It's been a cool project. Bottom line, if you want a battle gun, use 5.56. If you want a project, go with 5.45 and deal with it. Have fun fellas.
Adding my experience...
A couple of weeks ago I put 800 rounds of surplus 7N6 through my Spike's 5.45 midlength upper.
I used two magazines, one from C-Products and one from ASC, both bought new in January and February of this year. Since I had to wait on backorder for them, I assume they were the latest iterations. I had zero mag-related issues.
I did have 6 failure-to-fires where the primers had a good strike mark but failed to ignite. The lower was equipped with a standard hammer spring, but I just swapped it out for a Wolff Extra-Power.
JoeStrummer
10-22-13, 21:07
I re-barreled my S&W 5.45 about 3 months ago after shooting out the original barrel.
Run 97% Russian Surplus and the other 3% is Silver Bear 60grn stuff, new barrel has about 2000 rounds through it.
It has a BattleComp 1.5 and it previously had the standard receiver extension with a H2 buffer.
I have run both types of ammo through the old set-up, no issues.
I just installed the VLTOR A5, with a standard A5 H2 Buffer, and took it to a indoor range close to the house for a test fire.
Ran sixty rounds of Russian surplus, ran like a raped ape, ran a mag of the Silver Bear and the last 15 or so rounds started key-holing.
I have a Sprinco green buffer spring enroute.
Would anyone happen to know if this issue is indicative of my current set-up?
Or do I need to pull the A5 and put it on one of my 5.56 Mid-Length rifles?
Thanks in advanced.
I re-barreled my S&W 5.45 about 3 months ago after shooting out the original barrel.
Run 97% Russian Surplus and the other 3% is Silver Bear 60grn stuff, new barrel has about 2000 rounds through it.
It has a BattleComp 1.5 and it previously had the standard receiver extension with a H2 buffer.
I have run both types of ammo through the old set-up, no issues.
I just installed the VLTOR A5, with a standard A5 H2 Buffer, and took it to a indoor range close to the house for a test fire.
Ran sixty rounds of Russian surplus, ran like a raped ape, ran a mag of the Silver Bear and the last 15 or so rounds started key-holing.
I have a Sprinco green buffer spring enroute.
Would anyone happen to know if this issue is indicative of my current set-up?
Or do I need to pull the A5 and put it on one of my 5.56 Mid-Length rifles?
Thanks in advanced.
Who re-barreled your rifle?
I don't see how the Vltor A5 would cause keyholing.
If S&W re-barreled your rifle, I would send it back to them.
O
JoeStrummer
10-22-13, 23:06
I re-barreled it myself, with a new S&W barrel and matching BCG, I don't believe the issue is the barrel.
Where the variable changed is when I installed the A5, no issues with the old set-up.
I was thinking it was the combination of the A5 system and the Silver Bear ammo, possibly the Silver Bear maybe underpowered compared to the surplus ammo.
Just inquiring if anyone else has had similar results with a similar set-up.
Am about out of the SB, so if the gun only runs reliably with the surplus, I will just stick with that.
I re-barreled it myself, with a new S&W barrel and matching BCG, I don't believe the issue is the barrel.
Where the variable changed is when I installed the A5, no issues with the old set-up.
I was thinking it was the combination of the A5 system and the Silver Bear ammo, possibly the Silver Bear maybe underpowered compared to the surplus ammo.
Just inquiring if anyone else has had similar results with a similar set-up.
Am about out of the SB, so if the gun only runs reliably with the surplus, I will just stick with that.
where did u get a smith barrel please
tks
jjw
p.s. for those who care h&k ar mags work perfectly/ a hi speed guy told me that years ago when there were very few in that caliber in exsistance. i have a shit pot full of asc and they all work
for a while i used h&k till i got more good mags
good luck
JoeStrummer
10-24-13, 05:42
From my LGS, it was a complete rifle that was not selling, they switched it out to 5.56 during the last craziness.
KC_in_Bama
10-26-13, 00:05
Incredible thread. It's late, but I need to come back and read the entire thing. I do own a complete S&W 5.45 AR, and mt main issue was the C-product mags. If I limited it to around 25, it seemed to work most of the time. MY buddy Sub_Zero found a guy who made followers for the C-products mags that would allow you to max them out and have them feed normally. I know I bought a few, then stocked them away. Thanks to seeing this thread, and the holiday season coming up, think I'll dip out that AR and give her a try with those mags with new followers. BTW, those modified followers looked like they came out of Tango Down mags.
Excuse if I'm late to the thread, it's long, it's late, Hell, it's been a while since I posted anything on this forum. Time to get re-connected, and put a few rounds down range...5.45 style...It's still cheaper that 223/5.56 in many places, right?
Incredible thread. It's late, but I need to come back and read the entire thing. I do own a complete S&W 5.45 AR, and mt main issue was the C-product mags. If I limited it to around 25, it seemed to work most of the time. MY buddy Sub_Zero found a guy who made followers for the C-products mags that would allow you to max them out and have them feed normally. I know I bought a few, then stocked them away. Thanks to seeing this thread, and the holiday season coming up, think I'll dip out that AR and give her a try with those mags with new followers. BTW, those modified followers looked like they came out of Tango Down mags.
Excuse if I'm late to the thread, it's long, it's late, Hell, it's been a while since I posted anything on this forum. Time to get re-connected, and put a few rounds down range...5.45 style...It's still cheaper that 223/5.56 in many places, right?
Welcome back. By any chance, are the followers you are referring to white in color? If they are, I have a few stashed away as well.
BTW, 5.45 is currently less than 1/2 the price of 5.56/.223. My last stockpile purchase was $359.90 for 2,160 delivered! You can't beat that!
O
KC_in_Bama
10-26-13, 13:14
Confirm, they are white. Also, Academy Sports carries Monarch brand 5.45 at $9.99/box of 30. But the spam cans are still the best price around.
Its been a few years since ive posted in this thread. Just curious what everyone is using for mags now. I have a few PMags that work. I need to sort them all out so I know which generations work best and which ones dont work so well. I tried the old old c-products mags but never had any luck with them, they were garbage.
I ditched the S&W barrel for a spikes mid length. Pretty happy with it. I think im going to trying a ballistic advantage barrel to see if I can get any better accuracy out of it. Has anyone tried them yet?
Its been a few years since ive posted in this thread. Just curious what everyone is using for mags now. I have a few PMags that work. I need to sort them all out so I know which generations work best and which ones dont work so well. I tried the old old c-products mags but never had any luck with them, they were garbage.
I ditched the S&W barrel for a spikes mid length. Pretty happy with it. I think im going to trying a ballistic advantage barrel to see if I can get any better accuracy out of it. Has anyone tried them yet?
I run the ASC mags, no problems, load them to 30. Even run it in my local Multi Gun comp.
I also run the Spikes Mid Upper, I have always thought the accuracy was pretty good.
I have the ballistics advantage barrel. Seems like quality kit. Got about 1000 rounds thru the barrel. I'd buy another one given the need. It shipped with an extra power hammer spring which has worked really well. I am getting about 3 moa groups with the surplus ammo.
I am discovering that the ASC mags are the best I've used so far. With the Cproducts, I thought I had the problems worked out by lubing the inside of the cproducts mags but a recent trip to the range showed that the ASC proved more reliable. I hoped the cproducts would be ok since I have more of them. I sent several back to cproducts but it's been weeks and they haven't replaced the ones I sent them and heard nothing but crickets from the dude I emailed. My ASC MAGS just work.
I lose patience with things that cause my gun to hicup. I'm hoping they send me replacements that function soon. We will see I guess. I'll let you fellas know what transpires.
@ ZH556 -- Many months ago, I read somewhere that CProducts was purchased (or changed its name) to ASC. Perhaps that is why you are hearing nothing but cricket noises from your former CProducts contact.
@ ZH556 -- Many months ago, I read somewhere that CProducts was purchased (or changed its name) to ASC. Perhaps that is why you are hearing nothing but cricket noises from your former CProducts contact.
Last I heard, It was bought out but kept the same name. Not the best idea to keep the name of a crappy product.
A couple pics of my ACR 5.45 barrel before it goes off for nitride treatment. Once the AAC 51T flash hider is pinned in place it will be 16.1" long.
My idea with the pentagonal twisted section in front of the gas block is so I'll immediately be able to verify that this is a 5.45 and not a 5.56. That's what I told Marvin when I asked him to build this. In reality I wanted something way different just for the cool factor. Truth is I'll probably leave the ACR as a 5.45 and never shoot it as a 5.56 again unless the ammo completely dries up. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/puquga9u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/upenadad.jpg
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Ned Christiansen
12-31-13, 11:53
Cool profile, is it timed and matched to the rifling rate and direction of twist, because if not...... hoo boy... :-)
...And what is that obscene-looking bit of gear on the underside?
But seriously, it's cool and yah, dang sure will give a visual cue as to which gun you're shooting.
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I would be interested
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
VERY interested
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I think we'd all like to see additional sources for magazines.
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It is my understanding that the new ASC magazines are reliable and there are a lot sources for them. Is that not the case?
I think we'd all like to see additional sources for magazines.
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I have cash in hand for a nice quality 5.45 upper.It would be nice to shoot a case of ammo and have it be under 200$ for once lol
johnnychimpo
01-01-14, 11:33
It is my understanding that the new ASC magazines are reliable and there are a lot sources for them. Is that not the case?
I run them and haven't had reliability issues. Last 5.45 mags I bought were "Stoner" (Stoner floor plates) brand at Midway. They look identical to my ASC branded mags and have ASC marked followers. Picked up a couple windowed gen2 Pmags to try after modding the followers.
I am interested in one. I have a line on ASC mags. I was working with my buddy and ran a cross a case of them. I also have a lot of 5.54X39 in the basement....
Very interested in getting on the 5.45 train.
johnnychimpo
01-01-14, 14:01
I could always use another upper.
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I'd be interested. Fully built or like you mentioned, a conversion, which IMO would be better than fully built for myself.
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I am very interested as well. 5.45 ammo hasn't seemed to become ridiculously priced yet so it seems like a viable option to me.
Another +1 for interest in purchasing a 5.45 upper. There isn't a whole lot around right now in terms of uppers, but ammo can be had for quite reasonable prices. I actually have a lower sitting around waiting for a 5.45 upper to mate to it.
Another +1. I would absolutely be interested in purchasing a complete 5.45 upper.
Ouroborous
01-01-14, 22:49
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
Count me as interested as well.
We were just discussing this earlier and out goal is to ramp this up rather quickly. The main thing is that we want to capture the cost and make sure that nothing is being lost and that the upper will be competitively priced. I hope that we will have some stuff ready to go right towards the end of the month.
I'm interested in 1 for sure. Keep us posted.
O
I hope that we will have some stuff ready to go right towards the end of the month.
That's impressive. I actually have an upper in my cart online at Midway's site as of this moment. I will be holding off on that purchase with this news.
Thoughts on the price? Not a hard number, but I'm guessing that competitive means around $600 with a fixed FSB, GI hand guards. (Just going off of BCM pricing.)
BCG and extra power hammer spring included?
12.5" barrel w FSP would be my wish. After that 11.5-12.5 w pinned LPGB. 16" would be the most salable.
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
interested +1
just wondering about finding reliable mags. but switching over from my 74 wouldnt be a bad thing.
I would love to have a 5.45 upper as well. My only problem is the lack of NJ legal mags for the platform. There are plenty of 5.56 15/30's available, but nothing for the 5.45. Otherwise I would have even a lower quality 5.45 upper. The cost savings would be awesome.
It is my understanding that the new ASC magazines are reliable and there are a lot sources for them. Is that not the case?
i have sold several 1,000's . i also have 50 or so that run flawless. am not pimping. just sharing numbers to convince u to go for it.
great platform. remember s&w thought so. have had 2 ak-74's waiting for the ar to arrive.
1. i love the cartridge. saw it work in s. america
2. ammo was cheap when i bought it at a.i.m. 1080 rds landed for 110.00 my self, cross gun, 1 other friend bought approx 40,000 rds. i have 17-18,000 still.
3. i have 3 complete uppers. including 10.5" factroy. 11.5 gunsmith work (adco i think). factory 16" not touched.
4. have 3 spare bcg.
all cans run 100%. just CLEAN THE DAMN THINGS with baltisol.
u need to have bbls and bcg available as a pkg xtra bcg parts. extractors being the big thing
i am in for 1 if the bbl compnay knows what they are doing.must be guranteed 100% replaceable.
asc mags are the best.
h&k mags are fine 100% reliable but heavy. load 27 rds in both
have not tried the magpul i dont care.
hope this helps
there is a great untapped maket got for it.
jjw
I would love to have a 5.45 upper as well. My only problem is the lack of NJ legal mags for the platform. There are plenty of 5.56 15/30's available, but nothing for the 5.45. Otherwise I would have even a lower quality 5.45 upper. The cost savings would be awesome.
Can't you give the follower mod a shot in a MagPul 10 rounder?
I have been told by several users that the ASC mags of recent production work 100%. The older Magpul mags work as long as you download them.
interested +1
just wondering about finding reliable mags. but switching over from my 74 wouldnt be a bad thing.
I understand the issue, but one thing we do not want to do is get into using good mags and then worrying about modifying them or changing them in anyway that will compromise the magazine. One of the main issues with semi auto weapons is the failure of a magazine.
I would love to have a 5.45 upper as well. My only problem is the lack of NJ legal mags for the platform. There are plenty of 5.56 15/30's available, but nothing for the 5.45. Otherwise I would have even a lower quality 5.45 upper. The cost savings would be awesome.
Here's the ammo at 16¢ per cartridge.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A54539R&name=Russian+5.45x39+53grn+FMJ+1%2c080rd+Can&groupid=33
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i/guns
i have been using unmodified mags for over 2 years started with c-prod good mags morons running it.
a.s.c has good tooling goo mgt. NO NEED to modify just replace the few defective u will get. rma to a.s.c. u are gtg
i have fooled with all kinds of followers but SAW NO REASON to continue. not a follower groupie anyway
use the std gi mags in all my guns. all my life. no magpul,xxx, what ever. never changed a follower in my life.
latest and greatest is gun bunny crap. just get the bbl built at a good price and get on with it.
14.5
11.5.
hornady makes quality ALMOST match grade ammo. 1/2 moa at 50 with an aimpoint.
jjw
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I'm interested in a 5.45 upper as well. Been wanting an AK74, but ended up sticking with 7.62 AK's for now.
Would like a 5.45 upper to stick on my AR lowers and shoot on the cheap.
AIM Surplus has barrels and bolts in stock... I trust IG enough to wait for whatever he happens to be putting together. If it's who I think it's going to be, it will be worth the wait.
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Ned Christiansen
01-08-14, 10:31
I'm feeling guilty here mag-wise..... I have quite a stack of mags for the S&W MP15-R and I tell ya, they all work all the time. All CP of course and of various vintages and finishes, but dang if they don't all work.
CobiaKiller
01-09-14, 06:48
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I'm in the market for one too. I'm holding up on my current purchase decision if y'all are coming out with something.
I have the ballistics advantage barrel. Seems like quality kit. Got about 1000 rounds thru the barrel. I'd buy another one given the need. It shipped with an extra power hammer spring which has worked really well. I am getting about 3 moa groups with the surplus ammo.
I am discovering that the ASC mags are the best I've used so far. With the Cproducts, I thought I had the problems worked out by lubing the inside of the cproducts mags but a recent trip to the range showed that the ASC proved more reliable. I hoped the cproducts would be ok since I have more of them. I sent several back to cproducts but it's been weeks and they haven't replaced the ones I sent them and heard nothing but crickets from the dude I emailed. My ASC MAGS just work.
I lose patience with things that cause my gun to hicup. I'm hoping they send me replacements that function soon. We will see I guess. I'll let you fellas know what transpires.
Cproducts finally came back and replaced the magazines I sent to them. They did me a solid by sending me an extra one for my troubles. As it turns out, this last batch all worked flawlessly. I'm not sure if they modified the design or what but now, all my Cproducts magazines work and all of my ASC magazines work. FINALLY. On a side note, I was using a standard trigger with the Ballistics Advantage Extra Power spring. It was BAD. However, when I took that extra power spring and put it into the Rock River Match Trigger...it worked great. Its a much cheaper alternative to some of the higher end triggers...like a hundred bucks and drops in easy.
A few observations from my experience:
-my CP mags and ASC mags all work well
-ASC mags are a little easier to load
-RRA two stage trigger gets nearly 100% ignition on 7n6 ammo (over thousands of rounds)
-Geissele triggers are so far 100% ignition on 7n6 ammo (but I have only shot on the order of hundreds of rounds with them and 7n6 ammo)
The RRA trigger is a cheap alternative to the Geissele, but be prepared for it to go mushy single stage. No guarantee, some do and some don't. Mine almost got to where it was single stage, but I fixed it by working the tail of the disconnector to get more engagement with the hammer in the second stage and its good for now. We'll see if it stays fixed or the same thing happens again.
I just built another 5.45 upper with the BA barrel and bolt. So I don't know how soon I'd buy another upper, but it's nice to see some variety and availability.
I just built another 5.45 upper with the BA barrel and bolt. So I don't know how soon I'd buy another upper, but it's nice to see some variety and availability.
I'm looking for feed back on the BA stuff. How do you like it?
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I'm looking for feed back on the BA stuff. How do you like it?
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I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet...just built this week. The stuff looks good, but that doesn't mean much until I see how it works. I usually put at least a few mags through my S&W 5.45 upper on every range trip and I plan to replace that with this new upper build if it works as expected. My expectations are that it will work great based on what I've read.
http://www.krichbaum.net/pics/_data/i/upload/2014/01/06/20140106194547-74b82abd-me.jpg
I have not been able to find much feedback on Ballistic Advantage but what I have found has been positive.
I'm actually looking for a bit of info on his 5.56 barrels since I have an immediate need for a lightweight barrel in that caliber.
Nice looking rifle!
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I've had a chance to shoot the new build with the BA 10.5" barrel and their bolt. The first time out, I had a ton of malfunctions where the spent cases weren't being ejected. At home I found that the bolt didn't come with an o-ring on the extractor spring, so I put one on. Tried it again today and had no issues at all. I tried it on an A5H3 buffer as well as the UC2 buffer in the LWRC ultra compact stock. Also with and without the M4-1000 can. I haven't shot groups yet but with a rough zero at 50 yds it hits my 5.5" steel target easily at 100 yds, so it certainly is within the realm of 'practical' accuracy.
Complete Ballistic Advantage uppers available.
http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product_cat=upper
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My BA barrel should be here monday :D
Im running a spikes barrel now. I heard BA made them for spikes. No clue if its true or not.
My BA barrel should be here monday :D
Im running a spikes barrel now. I heard BA made them for spikes. No clue if its true or not.
Actually Spike's posted on arfcom that BA does--or at least did--make their 5.45 barrels.
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Still waiting to see what IG has coming up. Especially if the upper is from the company I think it will be.
Actually Spike's posted on arfcom that BA does--or at least did--make their 5.45 barrels.
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Im impressed with my spikes barrel. Ive had it a couple years. It blows away the S&W barrel I started with. It had a really tight chamber.,accuracy wasnt bad. Just the chamber sucked. I pulled it, oiled it, and put it in a sealed bag for a rainy day.
Does anyone have any idea what kind of barrel life people are getting out of the spikes? I have 30k in surplus ammo set back. I want to make sure I have enough barrels set back for a "rainy day". ;)
I heard the S&W barrels were only getting about 10k out of them.
Still waiting to see what IG has coming up. Especially if the upper is from the company I think it will be.
Who is IG?
http://www.voodooinnovations.com/5-45-conversion-kit-mid
Kits appear to be in stock and ready for shipping and the price seems fair for a complete kit.
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Who is IG?
IraqGuns
http://www.voodooinnovations.com/5-45-conversion-kit-mid
Kits appear to be in stock and ready for shipping and the price seems fair for a complete kit.
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That looks like a pretty good kit. Midlength gas and melonite barrel. I think its A little pricey for not having its own BCG, but at least they provide the bolt.
Anyone have experience with 5.45AR's and how they run? I have a spare upper laying around I could use this on.
johnnychimpo
02-08-14, 15:08
My Spikes upper runs like a sewing machine using ASC mags.
IG, is there any plans for a 10.5 or 11.5 bbl? BA has a 10.5 and that's what I'd like.
I'm also currently trying to decide what mags to use. I'll probably end up trying them all I'm sure.
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Ouroborous
02-08-14, 19:28
Still waiting to see what IG has coming up. Especially if the upper is from the company I think it will be.
Same here-- squirreling away so I have the funds when it's released.
Like many here, I ascribe to the two is one philosophy--this upper will fill the role of a second gun that'll shoot 7n6 in addition to the Saiga 74.
Ballistic Advantage bolts are showing in stock again at AIM.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XBABOLT545
Ballistic Advantage bolts are showing in stock again at AIM.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XBABOLT545
Thanks for the heads up. Ordering soon.
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Thanks for the heads up. Ordering soon.
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Crap! Sold out!
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That's what I get for waiting.:banghead: Oh well, guess I'll wait some more.
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Crap! Sold out!
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First thing I did this morning was getting one as a spare. It seems like 5.45 parts are the new craze.
Phosphate coated 5.45 bolts in stock at Ballistic Advantage
Link (http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-45x39mm-phosphate-coated-bolt)
$75
Thanks for the heads up. I think for $10 more I'll hold out for the melonited one. It's probably worth it in corrosion resistance, right?
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Thanks for the heads up. I think for $10 more I'll hold out for the melonited one. It's probably worth it in corrosion resistance, right?
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From what I've seen, NiB doesn't really help much with corrosion compared to phosphate. Both get pitted pretty quickly even in dry conditions and with relatively diligent cleaning. This comes from comparing my phosphate M&P15R bolt to my BA NiB bolt after several thousand rounds but it's possible I could have gotten a badly coated one.
Edit: I just re-read your post. Does BA make a melonited bolt? I've just seen the NiB and phosphate ones.
LarryPhoto
02-13-14, 15:25
Actually Spike's posted on arfcom that BA does--or at least did--make their 5.45 barrels.
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I built an upper using a BA barrel from Aimsurplus, and this thing rocks. With Golden Tigger and a 1-6X scope I shot a sub MOA 10 shot group at 100 yards. With 7n6 I get about 2.5 inches.
These are some nice barrels, and being a middy, recoil is soft.
Here's something I picked up at Tucson Guns in Tucson, AZ. This will go on my rifle bag when my ACR conversion is done. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/14/naqudu4e.jpg
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EDIT: double post
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Phosphate coated 5.45 bolts in stock at Ballistic Advantage
Link (http://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-45x39mm-phosphate-coated-bolt)
$75
No longer. These are showing out of stock again.
TacticalTaco
02-14-14, 18:05
IraqGuns
That looks like a pretty good kit. Midlength gas and melonite barrel. I think its A little pricey for not having its own BCG, but at least they provide the bolt.
Anyone have experience with 5.45AR's and how they run? I have a spare upper laying around I could use this on.
My AA carbine length is pure clockwork with ASC mags.
fallenromeo
02-18-14, 02:00
I took the plunge lately and build a 5.45 upper based on the 16" BA barrel as well. Still waiting on ammo to get here so I can't comment on groupings yet. Has anyone modified their pmags? Or is there finally a decent mag out in this caliber?
I took the plunge lately and build a 5.45 upper based on the 16" BA barrel as well. Still waiting on ammo to get here so I can't comment on groupings yet. Has anyone modified their pmags? Or is there finally a decent mag out in this caliber?
From what I've read you can get an answer going either way on any of them. "ASCs are junk.", "My ASCs work flawless.", "CProducts belong in a dumpster.", "CProducts mags are 100%", "Modded PMAGS load to 29/are tits.", "Modded PMAGS nosedive after 4 rds." It's probably best to pick some up and which work for you.
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I have had great luck with CP and ASC mags. Some of my CP mags are even welded up crooked, but they still function fine. I'd recommend trying to find some ASC mags as the best option.
Regarding modified pmags, I have not had any reason to go down that road since my CP and ASC mags work great. But, from what I've read the gen 2 windowed mags are the best ones to modify. I finally tried modifying one myself with good results. I just did it the other day so I don't have a ton of rounds through that mag yet, but I shot it empty three times after loading it up to 30 rounds with no issues. It feeds properly and the BHO works consistently so far. The modification typically involves chopping most of the front leg of the follower off to allow it to tilt. My version of the modification is a bit more involved, but I'm not aware of anybody else that has been able to load them to 30 and maintain proper function. I posted the mods on TOS but there was very little interest. I'll post some pics here if there is interest. This mag will be tested further but like I said, so far it works perfectly.
Color me interested. I've not seen anyone load theirs to 30 either.
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Wow, that is one hell of a mod...
I will be attempting to replicate this for a 5.45 solution as soon as the move is done. Dremmel tool for the cuts?
These work without any issue. Loading them to 30 rounds.
http://www.mwgco.com/ar-15_accessories/product/012-IK-40SR.html
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ASC magazines are everywhere. I think that RSR has about 800 in stock last I looked. We are moving forward with our project and are waiting on the barrels to get finished and some other stuff.
The above is brilliant news. My only hope is that the upper will be available with and without a BCG.
IG, by any chance will you be offering a 5.45 with a 12.5" barrel option?
We will be doing conversion kits (I think) and complete uppers. We are still working out kinks. There are no plans for SBR barrels at this time.
The above is brilliant news. My only hope is that the upper will be available with and without a BCG.
AIM has a couple new length options from Ballistic Advantage.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=789&name=Ballistic+Advantage+5.45X39+Barrels&utm_source=AIM+Surplus+Main+List&utm_campaign=9ca851db08-02212014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6870497a6a-9ca851db08-17797469
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Is anyone familiar with these magazines?
http://www.kingarmory.com/king_armory_ka-ar02_high_reliability_5.45x39_magazine.html
...My version of the modification is a bit more involved, but I'm not aware of anybody else that has been able to load them to 30 and maintain proper function. I posted the mods on TOS but there was very little interest. I'll post some pics here if there is interest.
i'm interested!
bingbangouch
02-21-14, 22:44
Ballistic Advantage Barrels available here (http://www.righttobear.com/category-s/1838.htm) starting at $210. They also have the (Hanson) profile. I ordered the Hanson Profile and had it delivered to my door in 2 days. By far the nicest 5.45 barrel I've ever used for a build.
bingbangouch
02-21-14, 22:46
I've successfully been using ASC 5.45x39 AR mags for years now. Very few malfunctions. Def better than modifying PMAGS in my opinion.
My BA 10.3 Hanson bbl has shipped. Still waiting on the bolt. The guy said early March or so.
Has any body tried the follower mod on non-windowed M2s yet?
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Not yet, but I plan on doing the mod and swapping it between window bodies, non window bodies, and Emags.
Excellent! Very interested to see the results.
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I've been using ASC and AR-Stoner mags through my Adams Arms upper with no problems at all.
Can't you give the follower mod a shot in a MagPul 10 rounder?
I'll be testing some out on Monday at the range. Right now they seem to cycle fine. Before I cut the follower they would only fit 6-7 before swelling so far that I couldn't insert it into the magazine well. Once I cut the front leg off of the follower, I could load it it up 10 and insert it into the rifle. But it was still swollen and had resistance while inserting. But this was on a heavily Duracoated lower, so I need to check on some of my anno'ed lowers.
bingbangouch
03-10-14, 07:36
Ballistic Advantage Barrels available here (http://www.righttobear.com/category-s/1838.htm) starting at $210. They also have the (Hanson) profile. I ordered the Hanson Profile and had it delivered to my door in 2 days. By far the nicest 5.45 barrel I've ever used for a build.
I’ve been experimenting and testing this barrels corrosion resistance QPQ Corrosion Resistant Finish (Melonite) over the past 17 days. I’m using a Ballistic Advantage 16’’ Midlength barrel along with a Nickel Boron BCG. I’ve never ran a standard phosphate carrier this dirty before but I suspect, with the amount of carbon buildup I’ve got going on, that no matter how much oil used it would have started malfunctioning a long time ago. . I’m very impressed with the performance of the Nickel Boron so far. So impressed that I’ll never go back to a phosphate carrier unless I absolutely have to. I’ve only had a few minor feeding issues but those were due to magazine related stuff. I’m using ASC magazines, which I’ve had the best luck with so far (a few minor issues).
I’ve put a whole spam can of Russian surplus through the upper without a proper cleaning (It’s really freaking dirty). Every time I get back from the range I just oil all of the parts with CLP, run a bore snake soaked in CLP through the bore and put the upper away. I do however separate the upper and lower and do a thorough cleaning on the lower. Thorough cleaning of the lower consists of a good scrubbing of all the parts followed by some Windex and hot water. Mind you, this is corrosive 5.45x39 ammo and I’m sure you’re all aware of the consequences of not removing the corrosive salts released from the primers. This experiment is strictly to see how long it’s going to take for corrosion to set in on the Nickel Boron BCG and the QPQ (Melonite Finish) on the Ballistic Advantage barrel. I don’t want to risk corroding my lower.
So far there is zero signs of corrosion on the BCG or the barrel. I’m sure it’ll set in eventually and that’s the point of this test but so far I can’t find a single trace.
I’ll keep posting every spam can of 1080 rounds put through the upper (I have 6 left) or I’ll post the first time that I notice any corrosion. I’ve always wanted to do this but just never had the balls to not thoroughly clean my rifle after feeding it Russian surplus. It’s kind of liberating. I'll take some pictures soon.
Took some modified 10 round PMAGs to the range today. I did have FTF a few times, where the bolt chambered without a round. Seemed to do this half way through the mag. I would have shot more and tinkered with it but my MaTach rear sight broke.
Ouroborous
03-10-14, 20:50
Took some modified 10 round PMAGs to the range today. I did have FTF a few times, where the bolt chambered without a round. Seemed to do this half way through the mag. I would have shot more and tinkered with it but my MaTach rear sight broke.
Were they Gen 2 windowed Pmags?
I thought the mod didn't work on any other pmags for some reason.
Were they Gen 2 windowed Pmags?
I thought the mod didn't work on any other pmags for some reason.
No these are M3 10 round mags, I live in CA so I cant use 30 round 5.45 mags because they didnt exist before the state ban. You can do the mod to other pmags but they swell compared to the M2 Windowed mags for what ever reason. Before I couldnt get ten rounds into the mag, once I cut the follower I can insert ten but the mag is difficult to insert into the rifle. I need to pull out the spring and compare it to a few of my pre-ban magazines and see if there is a difference between them, if not then I guess its the feed lips which I can do nothing about.
I ordered a couple ASC 6.8 10 round & ASC 5.45 10/30 mags. I am going to pull the spring and follower out of the 5.45 mag and insert it into the 6.8 10 round mag, if I cant get it to work I am out $20.
Posted on the Ballistic Advantage Facebook page. No mention of whether they're actually running it with the PMAG or not.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/10006212_415914021885983_1577709634_n.jpg
Ouroborous
03-13-14, 21:25
Posted on the Ballistic Advantage Facebook page. No mention of whether they're actually running it with the PMAG or not.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1/10006212_415914021885983_1577709634_n.jpg
Apparently, some people are having success running the emag with 7n6.
Mrgunsngear has a YouTube video on it--maybe he can chime in on it?
I have tried.. No dice. It's hit or miss unless you download quite a bit. Seriously forget the magpul mags and just use the 40 round Bulgarian made AR mags, they work perfectly.
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I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
May be interested.
I am interested in seeing that there is still some interest here. I'd like to know from the members if a good 5.45 upper was available would you consider the purchase considering that mags are available and ammo is still very cheap?
I am working with another local company here that wants to build some good stuff for a reasonable price without sacrificing quality.
We are even looking to do a simple conversion that would consist of a barrel and low pro gas block, with a gas tube and bolt. We have a treatment process similar to nitride or melonite that we are looking at to do the barrel, BCG, gas tube and block.
I am interested as well
AIM has the NP3 bolts in stock again but they're all sold out of barrels.
I have a gen2 windowed pmag I modified to load 30 rounds of 7n6 in and it hasn't a single issue, even in full auto. I tried to make an emag work but the mag body started bulging well before it was fully loaded.
Did some fiddling with mags today. (this was all running the CH, not actually firing) I modded a gen 2 windowed and got it feeding 28-29. I then took the follower and put it in a gen 2 non-windowed and it would only feed 26-27, and I'm not even sure of that. I can't tell the difference in the mags, but I guess there is.
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justin_247
03-30-14, 16:54
Just as an FYI to anybody considering jumping onto the 5.45 bandwagon due to the availability of cheap surplus 7N6 ammo...
It has been banned for import by the ATF. Realize that with this in mind, the cost advantages of building a 5.45 rifle are depreciating rapidly. I say this as an owner of one.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?150184-5-45x39-7N6-is-now-Banned-from-Import
Just as an FYI to anybody considering jumping onto the 5.45 bandwagon due to the availability of cheap surplus 7N6 ammo...
It has been banned for import by the ATF. Realize that with this in mind, the cost advantages of building a 5.45 rifle are depreciating rapidly. I say this as an owner of one.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?150184-5-45x39-7N6-is-now-Banned-from-Import
Yep. My favorite round is dying as we speak:mad:
Really no point now when Tula 223 is the same price as the new production 5.45.
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I just sold a BA barrel because of this.No point to me when it'll be the same or more than my 47 or AR to shoot
I guess the best that can happen now is for someone to import the components as pulldown.
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justin_247
03-30-14, 17:45
Yep. My favorite round is dying as we speak:mad:
Seriously! I have two spam cans left that I'm going to shoot, and then it's going to be time for me to re-barrel the upper and swap out the BCG with 5.56 bolt.
This has me so mad! I'm still trying to decide whether to bail with zero rounds down the tube or stick with it. I even modded 4 pmags just the other day and now this!
I can get 9 cans of 7n6 locally for a non-panic rate, but I'm not in a position to afford it. It's so frustrating! Maybe it's time to sell the components (if there is even any demand any more) and switch to an AK for my affordable shooting fun? Wolf 5.45 seems to be about .25/r vs Wolf 223 at .27-.28/r. at that point it may just be easier to stick with 223 for plinking.
Screw the ATF for making this so complicated! Thanks Obama!
There is plenty of 5.45 in stock in addition to the new production stuff which is still cheaper than 5.56.
I was at academy today and monarch steel 5.45 was $9.99 and independence brass 5.56 was $8.99.
I was at academy today and monarch steel 5.45 was $9.99 and independence brass 5.56 was $8.99.
The 5.45 Monarch steel comes in 30rd boxes instead of 20rds like the .223
Silver lining to the ban is good deals due to those bailing out. I just bought a M&P15R NIB upper locally for $500. As I have more 5.45 than 5.56 stockpiled I am GTG for a few years. Down the road a 5.56 barrel and BCG is always an option. Or maybe 300BLK will be cheap or at least affordable by then.
There is plenty of 5.45 in stock in addition to the new production stuff which is still cheaper than 5.56.
My concern is that there will be no 7n6 to keep the price down and the other options will come in line with steel case 223 prices and I'm stuck with a gun that has no parts commonality with no advantage. Believe me, I'd like there to be enough of a savings to justify keeping things the way I have them now. But unless there's something I'm missing, it's a 2 cents/round difference.
Meh... I think that prices of the commercial 5.45 steel case (and non-corrosive to boot) Wolf/RedArmy/Tula will come down slightly as the craze to get the rounds dies down. At the end of the day it will still be produced in quantities large enough to justify shooting the round.
The sky isn't falling. The is still a lot of 5.45 and it is still considerably cheaper than 5.56 for those that actually shoot in quantity. And if you believe the real experts they have said a majority of all the surplus 5.45 7n6 ammo was brought in years ago.
http://ammunitionstore.com/products/5-45x39-ammo-60gr-fmj-wolf-wpa-polyformance-750-round-case.html
http://ammunitionstore.com/products/5-45x39-ammo-69gr-fmj-wolf-made-in-ukraine-1200-round-case.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/91683
http://gooseislandsales.com/product/hornady-5-45x39mm-60gr-v-max-steel-8124/
Right now, at this moment, Wolf 5.45 is still cheaper than Wolf 223. Who knows where it will end up though...hopefully some added commercial production will make up for the loss of surplus. I'm not directly bothered by the lack of 7n6 availability because I stacked it up. I have too many 5.45 rifles right now and I'll take a hit on a couple of AK's as result since everybody seems to want to unload their rifles now. One thing I do not plan to do is get rid of any 5.45 AR uppers...I shoot them quite a lot and I still love my 7n6.
Hey IG, how's that upper coming along? I'm still on the edge of my seat about it.
Heck, that Hornady Match ammo is 20% cheaper than the best price on 5.56 right now.
I have some of the 5.45 v-max, but I've yet to shoot any of it. All the reports I've seen are good, and it seems like a really good load at under $0.40 per round.
Dan's Ammo has 7n6 for $209.99 a 1080 round tin. $409.99 for a wooden crate of 2160.
http://www.dansammo.com/ammo.asp
Assuming the commercial side takes up the slack and its evens out to a reasonably cheap price,if it makes sense financially I'd still buy one.
Well Shit it's now official. The 7n6 is banned for importation.
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2014/04/040714-special-advisory-test-examination-and-classification-7n6-545x39-ammunition.html
This should solidify that ahole on gunbrokers marketing pitch of it being outlawed and ultra deadly justifying 2160 rounds for 10k...
I will under sell him by listing a can for 1k and claim that each LVL 3 plate smashing round was first dipped in super aids.
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well, at least it gives us more reason to stick with 223/5.56 than 5.45. There are still commercial 5.45 to be found, but just not as cheap as 7n6
Again, commercial 5.45 is still available for a significant savings over 5.56... The sky is not falling, a particular make of ammo is just not available anymore. Cheapest 5.56 I can find is still 20% more expensive than the Russian stuff. Given the fact that 7n6 can't be brought in anymore the move will be to bring in more Wolf/Tula/RAS. Is it "more expensive" than 7n6? Yep... But it's still the cheapest way to run an AR that's not rimfire.
For me the best was always Silver Bear. I wouldn't like that they import much more of that ammo.
Ouroborous
04-14-14, 17:51
Again, commercial 5.45 is still available for a significant savings over 5.56... The sky is not falling, a particular make of ammo is just not available anymore. Cheapest 5.56 I can find is still 20% more expensive than the Russian stuff. Given the fact that 7n6 can't be brought in anymore the move will be to bring in more Wolf/Tula/RAS. Is it "more expensive" than 7n6? Yep... But it's still the cheapest way to run an AR that's not rimfire.
I'm also trying to look on the bright side here-- we won't have to worry about corroding bolts, barrels and gas tubes shooting Wolf/Tula/RAS.
If memory serves, there were always a portion of 5.45x39 shooters that refused to shoot corrosive--guess we're with em by default now.
My thoughts are that without the cheap ammo this whole thing turns back into the .21 Genghis.
Maybe I'm wrong and there are enough uppers out there that the ammo will continue to be popular with some other stuff becoming available to fill the void.
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Oops. Forgot to post this:
http://www.nssf.org/share/gr/2014/Letter_to_B_Todd%20Jones_4-9-2014.pdf
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Keep writing your congressmen and senators... It looks like we might gain some traction with this one.
I'm also trying to look on the bright side here-- we won't have to worry about corroding bolts, barrels and gas tubes shooting Wolf/Tula/RAS.
If memory serves, there were always a portion of 5.45x39 shooters that refused to shoot corrosive--guess we're with em by default now.
My thoughts exactly. I wish 7N6 will be unbanned, but probably wont happen for a while. Once it was banned I thought "OK, lets hope Wolf and RAS get more of our money so they can keep the importation and production up". Word is that Wolf has a ton of 5.45 on the way (as of today from the NRA show).
I have a 5.45 barrel and BCG from Ballistic Advantage on the way, should be here next week. Can't wait to give an AR an honest go again.
http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=2&mID=141
Wolff AK-74 mag springs. Finally. Amen.
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