Question to carbine owners. How important is consistent cheek weld in a stock?

[FlyingChipmunk]

Got curious recently. I remember the days when Magpul came out with their M93 stock, but it didn't take off like I expected.

My assumption is that weight has been the issue. (not so much the weight of itself, but balance)

I don't usually pull my stock out much so I personally don't have a "break" in a cheek weld, so I've never looked for one myself, but

I want to hear from the guys here.

EDIT: My bad, I meant continuous/consistent cheek weld like that you see on Magpul UBR


Thanks

[bp7178]

How important is cheek weld for what? Room distance or ringing gongs at 600 yards? Drastically different.

[Uprange41]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you're asking about the fixed cheek piece of the UBR, vs. a standard stock that leaves some receiver extension exposed while extended?

I shoot with a red dot, and pretty square to the target. So for me, the cheek weld is generally the same no matter what position the stock is in.

If you're shooting something where eye relief matters (irons or a scope, general NTCH positioning), having a good cheek weld while your eye is positioned the correct distance away is nice, and that, IMO, is where the UBR (and fixed stocks) would come into play.

[anatolian B]

Very important beyond 30 meters. Practice consistent weld from different positions, it'll pay dividends.

[henschman]

Very important, particularly on scoped rifles. A solid cheek weld with a completely relaxed neck and 100% of your head's weight resting on the stock is a very important part of a solid shooting position. It reduces muscle tremor tremendously, improves consistency, and makes it much more comfortable to remain in position for a while. A whole lot of folks don't understand what cheek weld actually is, and are instead doing something like "cheek touch."

Anyway, all my scoped rifles have either a fixed stock or a UBR. That's also why I don't use one-piece scope mounts -- most of them are too tall for a real cheek weld. I use an extended riser and rings to get the perfect height for a good cheek weld, which for me is just a hair lower than the plane of most iron sights (1.4").

That said, with a parallax-free red dot, I can let it slide some (hehe) and can make do with a collapsible stock. Anything that wears a dot is intended primarily for close range, where positions will be squared up with stock retracted. Cheek weld only becomes an issue when shooting from traditional field positions (which I use NTCH and a fully extended stock). Even with the lower cheek weld of a bare buffer tube, the parallax-free nature of Aimpoints means that it isn't the end of the world if you are looking at the dot through the bottom 1/3 of the tube.

[feraldog]

back in the early 80's i practiced a lot of long range work with a SP1 civilian Commando topped with one of the very first TA01 ACOG.

the scope sat so high i never got much of a weld (bottom edge of my chin), yet on my very best day ever, i made 10-for-10 on a 12x14" steel plate at 600yds standing.

sure, its always better to get more stable, but it can be done even without, with enough practice/dedication.

[henschman]

Yeah, back in the day with fixed carry handles, you didn't have much choice -- if you were going to have an optic, you were going to have shitty cheek weld. The advantages of an optic still made it worth it. Now with flat top uppers being the norm and all the myriad options for stocks and scope mounting out there, I personally don't see a reason not to set my own scoped rifles up with proper optic and comb height for a good shooting position.

[556BlackRifle]

Very important, particularly on scoped rifles. A solid cheek weld with a completely relaxed neck and 100% of your head's weight resting on the stock is a very important part of a solid shooting position. It reduces muscle tremor tremendously, improves consistency, and makes it much more comfortable to remain in position for a while. A whole lot of folks don't understand what cheek weld actually is, and are instead doing something like "cheek touch."

Anyway, all my scoped rifles have either a fixed stock or a UBR. That's also why I don't use one-piece scope mounts -- most of them are too tall for a real cheek weld. I use an extended riser and rings to get the perfect height for a good cheek weld, which for me is just a hair lower than the plane of most iron sights (1.4").

That said, with a parallax-free red dot, I can let it slide some (hehe) and can make do with a collapsible stock. Anything that wears a dot is intended primarily for close range, where positions will be squared up with stock retracted. Cheek weld only becomes an issue when shooting from traditional field positions (which I use NTCH and a fully extended stock). Even with the lower cheek weld of a bare buffer tube, the parallax-free nature of Aimpoints means that it isn't the end of the world if you are looking at the dot through the bottom 1/3 of the tube.

Well said henschman.

[bluebird]

I've always wondered - how much pressure do people put their face on the stock w/ 1/3 lower cowitness? I always feel like I haven't quite put enough pressure but then my cheek is getting slightly deformed already - if I put more my sight becomes too low for 1/3 lower on my Aimpoint. Any idea what's considered a solid cheek weld with a red dot sight?

[556BlackRifle]

I've always wondered - how much pressure do people put their face on the stock w/ 1/3 lower cowitness? I always feel like I haven't quite put enough pressure but then my cheek is getting slightly deformed already - if I put more my sight becomes too low for 1/3 lower on my Aimpoint. Any idea what's considered a solid cheek weld with a red dot sight?

For me, as little pressure as I can get away with. If you are running and your pulse rate is up, then you go prone to make your shot, you will find the crosshairs bouncing around with each heartbeat. More pressure makes this worse. (At least it does with me.) I've worked on breathing and learned to time my shot between beats as much as possible and this has helped. Just try to be as consistent as possible with how you place your cheek on the weld. If you have consistent cheek weld, cleansing breath / controlled breathing and good trigger discipline and follow through, you may surprise yourself.

If you're engaging multiple targets while up on your feet - moving, it's different. For me, breathing and heartbeat / pulse are still important however, I place my cheek slightly more to the side as I hold my rifle slightly higher. Pulse doesn't seem to be as much an issue for me when standing. Also, I naturally just lay my cheek against the side of the weld.

Practice and see what form works for you, be consistent and work on the other fundimentals. This is the best advice I can give.

[MegademiC]

I think it depends on purpose of the rifle.

My b5 bravo stock gives good cheek weld for a carbine, I love it. It's not the same as a bolt gun. I can make tight groups at 100yds and it's great for getting the sight on target consistently.

If I was laying behind the rifle all day taking long distance shots, I might want something different, but I don't know as I havnt done that yet. My b5 is light, and I like that for the purpose of my rifle, ymmv.

[henschman]

I've always wondered - how much pressure do people put their face on the stock w/ 1/3 lower cowitness? I always feel like I haven't quite put enough pressure but then my cheek is getting slightly deformed already - if I put more my sight becomes too low for 1/3 lower on my Aimpoint. Any idea what's considered a solid cheek weld with a red dot sight?
If you're not resting the entire weight of your head on the stock, with a completely relaxed neck, it isn't a cheek weld. You can tell when someone has a cheek weld when he has a "chipmunk cheek"... the skin of the cheek being pushed up by the stock because the head's full weight is resting on it. If you just have a "cheek touch" or "cheek index," you aren't getting the benefits of reduced muscle input, and recoil will knock you off your NPOA easier.

[Jesse H]

If you're not resting the entire weight of your head on the stock, with a completely relaxed neck, it isn't a cheek weld. You can tell when someone has a cheek weld when he has a "chipmunk cheek"... the skin of the cheek being pushed up by the stock because the head's full weight is resting on it. If you just have a "cheek touch" or "cheek index," you aren't getting the benefits of reduced muscle input, and recoil will knock you off your NPOA easier.

Is this possible with a CTR stock and Aimpoint PRO on a lower 1/3 mount? I find if I rest my head in the stock I can't see the glsss.

This is making me consider absolute co witness in my next rifle.

[cbx]

Is this possible with a CTR stock and Aimpoint PRO on a lower 1/3 mount? I find if I rest my head in the stock I can't see the glsss.

This is making me consider absolute co witness in my next rifle.
Depends on the individual. Wet all have different size faces.

Thing is, an RDS in 1/3 isn't intended for precision work. It's designed for speed, up close.

Needs dictate setup, not the other way around. You can make it work, but it won't do both well. Co witness maybe what fits best for a blend of the two for some.

For me and raw speed, nothing beats 1/3. I use scoped uppers for precision shooting.

Do what works for you, don't get too caught up in what the next guys doing.

[l8apex]

Depends on your optic. Running a RDS vs 1-6/3x/4x vs 2.5-10 all require more consistent cheek weld as you go up in that order.

[henschman]

Is this possible with a CTR stock and Aimpoint PRO on a lower 1/3 mount? I find if I rest my head in the stock I can't see the glsss.

This is making me consider absolute co witness in my next rifle.
No way you are going to have a cheek weld with a lower 1/3 co-witness. As others have said, it may not be a big hindrance for you if all you are doing is close range shooting from dynamic positions. That's not all a red dot is good for, though. It can be used to get hits at any distance irons can... which would be all the way out to the maximum effective range of the rifle with a sufficiently stable position. I prefer to keep my rifle as versatile as possible.

Also I don't believe there is any speed benefit to having the sight so high with your head floating around behind it, even for close quarters shooting... more like the opposite. I find it much faster if my optic is close to the same height as all my other AR optics, so when I bring my rifle up to that same spot on my face I have done countless times, the dot is right where I know it will be, in the center of my vision, and I'm ready to get down to business. The consistency of that solid third point of contact with the rifle helps in any style of shooting, even if it's a less relaxed, more muscle-intensive dynamic position. It also helps stabilize against recoil for a quicker follow-up shot, which is very important for close quarters.