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View Full Version : What I learned while stippling my Glock



HansTheHobbit
02-10-16, 00:44
My dog died the other day, and I needed a project to keep my mind occupied, so this is what happened. I have been putting it off until I get more practice with Pmags and such, but luckily it turned out okay, or at least I'm happy with it.

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I've been wanting to do this for quite some time, along with a grip reduction, which may come later if I work up the courage to go through with it after doing a little more research. For now, this has fixed about 70% of my complaints regarding the Glock frame, and I expect that toning down the hump a little will fix another 15-20%. Since I got a lot of my information on the forums, I thought I would tell everyone what I learned in the process.

Here goes...

1. It was worth it. The only downside was voiding my warranty, and I finally have a Glock I actually enjoy.

2. None of the structural integrity has been lost, save for the trigger guard, which I feel is acceptable. My reasoning is that most other polymer pistol frames have much, much thinner trigger guards, and I've never heard of them failing. I actually measured the thickness of other trigger guards with a caliper and used that as a baseline for how much material I could remove. While it looks pretty thin, it still will not flex, so it's still very strong. Another thing I realized is that other parts of the Glock frame that are much more structural and vital to function are very thin compared to the trigger guard.

As for the effect of the stippling, what I did was very superficial. All the stippling was done with a needle point bit, and the total loss of material is thinner than a sheet of printer paper. I experimented with various textures on Pmags, and this was one of two textures I found that had no effect on the structural integrity. I wanted to mention that in case anyone is planning on doing a more aggressive texture.

3. A wood burner with variable heat (this is the one I used http://www.amazon.com/Walnut-Hollow-Versa-Temp-Temperature-Woodburning/dp/B005P1TRAS) is the key to getting good results, both in terms of aesthetics and function. If the heat is too high, then the texture will be sharp and brittle. If it's too low, then it will be soft and "fuzzy", and not very durable. I also found that to get clean borders, it's necessary to outline them on low heat, making only the lightest possible marks. This creates a fade-out effect that makes the borders look much sharper. If you stipple all the way to the borders on high heat, then they won't look nearly as sharp. Interchangeable tips are also necessary. A spade shaped tip is the only one I found that worked to melt the existing texture and smooth it out over the frame. This, as opposed to sanding it down, preserves the integrity of the frame since you're simply reshaping the existing material instead of sanding it away.

Long story short, outline the borders on low heat, smooth the frame on medium heat, and stipple on medium-high heat. I know that's subjective. Low heat just barely leaves a mark, no smoke will be emitted. Medium heat melts the polymer, a little smoke is created, but the polymer won't bubble or sizzle. High heat, the polymer will sizzle and bubble up, but it won't burn or leave a bunch of stringy bits all over. When doing the actual stippling, you should only have to touch it for a fraction of a second, and with very little pressure. The tool should be doing all the work. The bubbling/sizzling effect is necessary to getting the most texture out of the least material, as it causes the polymer to rise.

4. Don't stay in one area too long, or the heat will build up very quickly. Even if it feels cool on the surface, the heat transfers to the inside of the magazine well. It would be very easy to heat the frame up enough to warp it. I feel this is especially important when you're stippling the trigger finger index area since it's very close to where the slide rails are molded into the frame.

5. Clean your tip often. Carbon builds up on them, reducing the effectiveness. If you feel the material has suddenly gotten tougher, or feel like your burner is losing heat, then you've got carbon buildup. It can be pretty tenacious, so it may take some scraping to get it all off.

6. Never use sand paper on the stippling; it will ruin it. Only use steel wool. It will be necessary to knock off the sharp bits. Start with 2 or 3 gauge steel wool and very lightly brush it across the surfaces in different directions. It doesn't take much, and it's very easy to forget how superficial the texture really is. It's not hard to remove it completely, so be very conservative. After a few brushes, move down to 0. Spend a little more time with the 0, then move down to 000. This will leave something on the order of fine grip tape. It's perfectly comfortable with bare hands, and fairly effective with gloves. Most importantly, it retains a lot of its grip when wet or dusty. I would advise spending extra time around the beaver tail, as the web of your hand is pretty sensitive, and I would advise not using any texture around the trigger guard area, unless you plan on shooting exclusively with gloves. Alternately, spend less time around the palm and finger areas to retain a more aggressive texture there.

7. It can't be done in a day. Depending on your schedule, this may take you several weeks. I had two full days (I don't have kids) this weekend to devote to it, and I spent about 45 minutes yesterday and today buffing and polishing everything. So if you're doing your carry piece, then you really need to have a backup to carry during the process.

8. After you're done, make sure you fully detail strip everything and get all the steel wool and polymer dust out of it before shooting it or cycling it too much. I like to leave the slide on during the whole process, as its something to grab. It's also necessary to clamp the slide in a vice while doing the trigger guard undercut, so you have both hands to make sure and get everything nice and even.

Well, hope this helps someone out. I would suggest getting lots and lots of practice before doing a Glock. I practiced first on about five A2 grips, then about six magazines and three Magpul grips. Had I not practiced and gotten the right tools I hate to think how badly it would have turned out. Pmags are definitely the ticket, as the polymer is very similar. A2 grips were nothing like the polymer on Glocks and behaved very differently. Also do a lot of planning, and mark off the areas you want to stipple very carefully. It's easy to get lost in the stippling when you're doing it and stipple something you didn't mean to. Taking frequent breaks will also help keep you from zoning out.

BillBond
02-10-16, 01:16
The best way to get over a dog that passed is to get a new puppy.

Texaspoff
02-10-16, 06:20
Well done...just FYI, your warranty is still valid as long as the modification didn't cause or contribute to any failure you would need the warranty to cover.

Very sorry to hear about your dog. I am a huge animal person and have about six animals in my shop at any given time. :)

Another tip, the box your glock came in, is made from exactly the same material as the frame and is very good for practicing on. It reacts just like the frames polymer, there is a lot of areas to work with, and you can find them pretty cheap. The Glock mag loaders are also a good item to practice on. You can also work on blending lines and surfaces with both those items. It keeps your from bogering up P-mags and other such things.

Also the Glocks polymer isn't a reinforced polymer. Take caution when removing material because of this, undercutting and comparable modifications. This gets into the physics of the polymer itself compared to other polymers out there. Glocks polymer requires more material per measured amount to have the same strength to material ratio as a reinforced polymer. This is why other manufactures frames are generally thinner/smaller compared to glocks. With reinforced polymer, it doesn't require as much material to be as strong. Reinforced polymer also react differently to temperature variations, IE heat tool temps.

Just a few things I learned along the way....:)


TXPO

b2dap1
02-10-16, 06:21
Sorry about the dog!!

HansTheHobbit
02-10-16, 06:40
Well done...just FYI, your warranty is still valid as long as the modification didn't cause or contribute to any failure you would need the warranty to cover.

Very sorry to hear about your dog. I am a huge animal person and have about six animals in my shop at any given time. :)

Another tip, the box your glock came in, is made from exactly the same material as the frame and is very good for practicing on. It reacts just like the frames polymer, there is a lot of areas to work with, and you can find them pretty cheap. The Glock mag loaders are also a good item to practice on. You can also work on blending lines and surfaces with both those items.

It keeps your from bogering up P-mags and other such things. Also the Glocks polymer isn't a reinforced polymer. Just about every other type of polymer out there is reinforced with glass or some other medium. They react differently to different temperatures.


TXPO

That's good to know. What is your opinion on grip reductions? I'm planning on cutting the offending portion of the backstrap off, reshaping it, then melting it back on and blending the edges, using bits of polymer from one of the extra backstraps to fill in any gaps. Then afterwards using some sort of resin to fill the backstrap for structural support. This is the only way I've found to get a grip reduction with full 360 degree stippling. I absolutely do not want to do the marine tex method, as I've seen that stuff come off, not to mention I think it looks terrible.

Texaspoff
02-10-16, 06:46
I am all for them obviously. There are several methods out there, and I have tested them all. The one I use retains the integrity of the frame. While I won't divuldge the technique I use, I will tell you that cutting the frame in that area is not what I would recommend. The reasons you stated above about the material falling out is also why I don't use the fill method. It can also compromise the ingerity of the frame. If the material falls out, it is virtually impossible to use the pistol until it is filled again.

I think my system works just fine...:)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/DSC_0307-1_zpsd0cb1be9.jpg

TXPO

HansTheHobbit
02-10-16, 07:13
I am all for them obviously. There are several methods out there, and I have tested them all. The one I use retains the integrity of the frame. While I won't divuldge the technique I use, I will tell you that cutting the frame in that area is not what I would recommend. The reasons you stated above about the material falling out is also why I don't use the fill method. It can also compromise the ingerity of the frame. If the material falls out, it is virtually impossible to use the pistol until it is filled again.

I think my system works just fine...:)

TXPO

I didn't realize you did it professionally. Now you've really got me in a pickle! If there's a void, then I'm wanting to fill it with something anyway, for several reasons. First of all, simply to make it easier to guide magazines in, and also to keep stuff out since it would no longer accept a plug. I was planning on using either acraglass or JB weld. They seem like better options than the marine stuff.

If you don't cut the backstrap off, then I'm completely stumped. The only other method I've seen is heating it up with a heat gun and crushing it in, which doesn't look like a good idea to me. I'm definitely going to have to do some thinking on this one.

HansTheHobbit
02-10-16, 07:32
Okay, one more question. If I end up doing the heat and crush method, will that weaken the frame? I'm not an expert on the properties of polymer, so I'm afraid that getting the backstrap hot enough to mold like that will transfer enough heat to the frame to weaken it. Have they covered anything like that in your armorer's class? I guess what I'm asking is does heating polymer change the molecular structure, or does it go back to normal once it cools down?

themonk
02-10-16, 07:32
7. It can't be done in a day. Depending on your schedule, this may take you several weeks. I had two full days (I don't have kids) this weekend to devote to it, and I spent about 45 minutes yesterday and today buffing and polishing everything. So if you're doing your carry piece, then you really need to have a backup to carry during the process.

Once you do a few you should be able to do that in a couple of hours. Use a dremel to smooth out the factory stippling, get rid of the finger grooves, and do the undercut. Tape out your lines and stipple in a random pattern. use 600-800 wet dry to smooth out the undercut.

Couple of tips:
* The lighter the stipple the faster it will wear down and need to be redone (this is completely personal preference on texture).
* Next time you may want to skip the area where the web of your hand meets the gun. If you do a handgun class, the web of your hand will get eaten up by the stippling. Also, as you go to draw the pistol from your holster, it's easier if there is no stippling there for speed and indexing purposes.

HansTheHobbit
02-10-16, 08:06
Once you do a few you should be able to do that in a couple of hours. Use a dremel to smooth out the factory stippling, get rid of the finger grooves, and do the undercut. Tape out your lines and stipple in a random pattern. use 600-800 wet dry to smooth out the undercut.

Couple of tips:
* The lighter the stipple the faster it will wear down and need to be redone (this is completely personal preference on texture).
* Next time you may want to skip the area where the web of your hand meets the gun. If you do a handgun class, the web of your hand will get eaten up by the stippling. Also, as you go to draw the pistol from your holster, it's easier if there is no stippling there for speed and indexing purposes.

Yea, I'm sure it would go much faster after doing a few of them. A lot of the time was spent planning everything out, and I did everything very, very slowly. I also went through several stages of the trigger guard. At first I tried doing a regular round undercut like you see from all the custom shops, but I was still getting that knuckle. I have fat fingers, and even fatter knuckles, so I ended up just extending the undercut into a more traditional trigger guard shape.

I went back and forth on the web area. In the end I feel like I get something from having the texture there. The exception is that I don't plan on ever shooting more than a few mags at a time. It's my carry piece, so if more than three mags are involved then I'm SOL anyways. I did take down a lot of the texture around the web with the steel wool, though, and I kind of like the way it slowly tapers off, as opposed to having an abrupt change from full texture to none. But you're right, I wouldn't want to fire hundreds of rounds a day with it unless I was wearing gloves.

Texaspoff
02-10-16, 15:10
I didn't realize you did it professionally. Now you've really got me in a pickle! If there's a void, then I'm wanting to fill it with something anyway, for several reasons. First of all, simply to make it easier to guide magazines in, and also to keep stuff out since it would no longer accept a plug. I was planning on using either acraglass or JB weld. They seem like better options than the marine stuff.

If you don't cut the backstrap off, then I'm completely stumped. The only other method I've seen is heating it up with a heat gun and crushing it in, which doesn't look like a good idea to me. I'm definitely going to have to do some thinking on this one.


Okay, one more question. If I end up doing the heat and crush method, will that weaken the frame? I'm not an expert on the properties of polymer, so I'm afraid that getting the backstrap hot enough to mold like that will transfer enough heat to the frame to weaken it. Have they covered anything like that in your armorer's class? I guess what I'm asking is does heating polymer change the molecular structure, or does it go back to normal once it cools down?

As long as you don't get crazy with the heat it will not affect the polymer at all. Glocks polymer is very resilient to temperature variations. It toke some trial an d error when I first started doing them, but I figured it out pretty quick. I have reductions that have been out there since 07-08 and not a single failure with any of them. I actually did some range rental guns for beta testers since I knew they would not receive much care and would get the piss run out of them. Never a problem or issue with any of them.

As far as filling the backstrap, Glocks polymer is in the nylon family of polymers. Most other manufactures use polymers that have a high content of reinforcement fiber or materials and closely resemble kydex, or Zeytel. Which means there aren't a lot of resins that will adhear to it for long periods of time. I worked up my own recipe for the material I use to fill the backstraps, again trial and error. I have done stand alone speed wells to customers guns, that later decided they wanted reductions. It takes ton of time and effort removing that stuff from the channel, so I can assure you, it ain't coming out on it;s own....LOL

TXPO

It isn't that I am an artist or anything like that, but I am very particular, almost to a fault. If I wouldn't use it or carry it, then I re work it until I would.

HansTheHobbit
02-10-16, 16:33
As long as you don't get crazy with the heat it will not affect the polymer at all. Glocks polymer is very resilient to temperature variations. It toke some trial an d error when I first started doing them, but I figured it out pretty quick. I have reductions that have been out there since 07-08 and not a single failure with any of them. I actually did some range rental guns for beta testers since I knew they would not receive much care and would get the piss run out of them. Never a problem or issue with any of them.

As far as filling the backstrap, Glocks polymer is in the nylon family of polymers. Most other manufactures use polymers that have a high content of reinforcement fiber or materials and closely resemble kydex, or Zeytel. Which means there aren't a lot of resins that will adhear to it for long periods of time. I worked up my own recipe for the material I use to fill the backstraps, again trial and error. I have done stand alone speed wells to customers guns, that later decided they wanted reductions. It takes ton of time and effort removing that stuff from the channel, so I can assure you, it ain't coming out on it;s own....LOL

TXPO

It isn't that I am an artist or anything like that, but I am very particular, almost to a fault. If I wouldn't use it or carry it, then I re work it until I would.

With the methods I'm considering, it wouldn't be a disaster if the material did come out, although I would obviously prefer that it didn't.;)

I'm leaning towards acraglass since it's supposed to be flexible. I also reason that if it can stand up to big bore recoil then it will probably be okay for a Glock. Brownell's says it works on all kinds of stock materials, which I know includes a lot of stocks made from glass filled nylon and the like. I also like that it has its own dyes. Without giving away any secrets, can you just tell me if you've had a bad experience with acraglass?

themonk
02-10-16, 16:51
Check out Marine Tex

lvrjcdr
02-10-16, 18:16
Sorry about the dog and thanks for all the tips

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

straitR
02-10-16, 20:48
The gun looks good dude. Sorry to hear about your pup.

samuse
02-10-16, 22:12
I don't think that the Glock box is the same material as the frames. Acetone and carb cleaner will melt a box in short order, but doesn't affect the frames.

HansTheHobbit
02-11-16, 00:36
Did the grip reduction this evening. It was like bungee jumping...very scary during the fact, but you're glad you did it afterwards.:D

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It just feels so wrong torching a gun like that. It looks absolutely horrifying before it's all finished up. For those of you who do this professionally, my advise is never let your customers see the actual process, unless you enjoy the sound of whaling and gnashing of teeth.:lol:

MistWolf
02-11-16, 01:22
Nicely done! You said this was your first go at stippling a handgun?

HansTheHobbit
02-11-16, 01:34
Nicely done! You said this was your first go at stippling a handgun?

Thanks! Yep, first one. I practiced on a few Pmags and AR grips first.

Texaspoff
02-11-16, 07:42
I don't think that the Glock box is the same material as the frames. Acetone and carb cleaner will melt a box in short order, but doesn't affect the frames.

As far as the way the heat affects it for use it is the same base material compound. The boxes react the way the frames do when textured with heat. I should have explained my intent in my earlier post....:)

There are some additives that are added to the frames to protect them from cleaners, solvents, and a UV protectant that is added to the frames as well. I suspect they don't use this stuff in the box material for cost savings.

TXPO

HansTheHobbit
02-14-16, 22:34
Did a beavertail, and also extended the magazine release by 1mm, which made a world of difference. If you only do one mod to your Glock, then texture your magazine release. It's cheaply replaced if you screw it up, so there's really no risk. The beavertail, however, isn't to be taken lightly. It's worth it, but it's not nearly as forgiving as the rest of the mods I did. You really only get one shot at it, and there are several places where even a small error will ruin the frame.

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