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View Full Version : At what point does an "Bolt" together AR lower count as a full lower?


AnthonyCumia
02-11-16, 05:07
http://i1276.photobucket.com/albums/y474/BATFE/Fu%20Stuff/Bolt%20together%20lower/hmmdeb_zps9f537d12.gif

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHGIokQXEAA9S0b.png

http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/RollaTroll-Bolt-Lower-clear.png


If I sold half the parts and then sent the rest say a day apart as a "free gift" do you think the ATF would still deny it?
Auto-X Fil
02-11-16, 05:37
My guess is that they would rule on one of those pieces being a lower, and requiring marking. Bolting it together is quite easy, and isn't really "manufacturing" like cutting and drilling an 80% lower.
GH41
02-11-16, 05:46
Remember the guy that would sell you an 80% lower for $300 that included an invitation to a build party? At this party you could put your receiver onto his CNC mill and push the run button. It didn't go over too well with the feds. I don't think you're 80% sell and 20% free plan would keep you out of trouble.
usmcvet
02-11-16, 08:41
Damn I wish I knew about the build parties before they went away. =)

If you sold 80% and then told them how to make the remaining 20% you might be okay. I hate to say call ATF but I might suggest you call a firearms attorney for advice. It will save ass ache in the long run. I am sure there are folks here that could suggest a few good attorneys to run your business plan by.
Eurodriver
02-11-16, 08:50
Will not comply, I thought?
SteyrAUG
02-11-16, 13:55
Remember the guy that would sell you an 80% lower for $300 that included an invitation to a build party? At this party you could put your receiver onto his CNC mill and push the run button. It didn't go over too well with the feds. I don't think you're 80% sell and 20% free plan would keep you out of trouble.

So long as you built it by following all legal requirements how is that any different than borrowing a tool from a buddy to complete any other build?
nova3930
02-11-16, 13:58
So long as you built it by following all legal requirements how is that any different than borrowing a tool from a buddy to complete any other build?

It's really not but this is the ATF we're talking about here...making it up as they go along for a damn long time now....
Leaveammoforme
02-11-16, 14:27
**huffing and puffing from running, stops and grabs knees while barely mustering out**

"Hey guys, hold up! My right side magazine well plate fell off"

ETA:

On a serious note, I like the idea. You could even offer different mag wells. I don't see it getting approved as it sits though.

I think you need to combine some parts that the end user would then have to "manufacture". Come at it from the AK flat idea. Combine your FCG sides and trigger slot into one large piece with all holes drilled minus trigger pin, hammer pin and selector.

Plate would then need bent (or cut) then FCG holes drilled to be a functional lower. I think you should also combine the magwell sides to one piece which would then be separated into two by the end user.

I think you would stand a better chance of getting big pieces approved versus a lego set.
Firefly
02-11-16, 14:47
This almost like those home made guns they make in the Phillipines.
SteyrAUG
02-11-16, 16:20
Sooner or later somebody will get jammed up over this.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-QXp7VabCsk/maxresdefault.jpg
jpmuscle
02-11-16, 17:16
That's awesome, truly.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
AnthonyCumia
02-11-16, 17:56
This almost like those home made guns they make in the Phillipines.

Did you see the mini Mac 10, so same it fits in the palm of your hand?

So want.
AnthonyCumia
02-11-16, 17:58
That's awesome, truly.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

They have vid of them being used.
SilverBullet432
02-11-16, 18:09
My guess is the serialized part is the "firearm"
Leaveammoforme
02-11-16, 18:47
They have vid of them being used.

Oh. I thought this was something you were doing. You have a link to the company?
AnthonyCumia
02-11-16, 19:21
Oh. I thought this was something you were doing. You have a link to the company?

No one is selling them, these are just vids of privately built ones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kza2mSDySMI
AnthonyCumia
02-11-16, 19:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz8mlB1hZ-o
AnthonyCumia
02-11-16, 19:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRlJCiEpgrU
Benito
02-11-16, 23:19
This is brilliant. I wonder what insane trickery and gymnastics the feds will get up to to try to ban/"regulate" these.
AnthonyCumia
02-12-16, 00:04
This is brilliant. I wonder what insane trickery and gymnastics the feds will get up to to try to ban/"regulate" these.

Do not encourage them, for the love of God do not encourage them.
Moose-Knuckle
02-12-16, 01:40
Sooner or later somebody will get jammed up over this.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-QXp7VabCsk/maxresdefault.jpg

Well that one kid got pitched over a Pop-Tart at school . . .
Benito
02-12-16, 02:28
Do not encourage them, for the love of God do not encourage them.

True. What part of the Constitution authorizes the feds to have anything to do with firearms "regulation"?? Seriously.
AnthonyCumia
02-12-16, 02:57
True. What part of the Constitution authorizes the feds to have anything to do with firearms "regulation"?? Seriously.

The ruling of the Supreme court via Miller vs United States, the defense did not show up and was not able to counter the flat out lies of the goverment and the act of treason know as Wickard v. Filburn that gave the Congress the right to regulate/ban anything and everything.

More reason we have to handicap the court as the has been proven beyond and doubt as to be unable to be trusted to read, understand, and enforce the Constitution.
djegators
02-12-16, 07:35
Well, it didn't work out well for the guy making the multicolored polymer 80% lowers.
AnthonyCumia
02-12-16, 15:28
Well, it didn't work out well for the guy making the multicolored polymer 80% lowers.

Of course not, why would a hard working, honest man actually get ahead in the world.
nova3930
02-12-16, 17:24
Well, it didn't work out well for the guy making the multicolored polymer 80% lowers.

Another fine example of the tyranny of a huge government. As a matter of fact and law that guy was in the right, but he has not even 0.0001% of the resources of the govt, meaning they can drag him through court till he's bankrupt, so he just throws in the towel.

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AnthonyCumia
02-12-16, 23:16
Another fine example of the tyranny of a huge government. As a matter of fact and law that guy was in the right, but he has not even 0.0001% of the resources of the govt, meaning they can drag him through court till he's bankrupt, so he just throws in the towel.

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What is even sadder is he and we all pay to feed this monster that is eating us.