First AR-15, 4 - 4.5 lb

[IronMaiden]

Nevermind

[mack7.62]

You need to add about 1 lb to your build weight, go with a standard BCG and how much weight are all those high dollar titanium parts going to save, couple of ounces?

[crusader377]

Although I don't see anything wrong with your part selection except running a 15" rail on a 14.5" barrel, IMO you are spending a lot of money to achieve a super light carbine. I personally would simply build a carbine based off of this upper or something similar and call it a day.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-ELWF-KMR10-p/bcm-urg-mid-14elwf-kmr10.htm

A carbine based around this upper should weigh in around 5.5 lbs and will handle very well.

[Noodles]

Hey guys, I need a first AR, I have no idea what I actually want, so here is a list of things I'm going to say I want.

Lol 4lb AR? That's beyond ultra specialized.

Get a 6920 and take a class, then build up your ULW of you think it'll serve some role better.

[IronMaiden]

This is not about saving money and I'm also not going to build something that I don’t want. I clearly stated my requirements. I don't need any posts trying to tell me to start off with something else. The receiver, rail etc is already ordered as stated and I won’t cancel the orders. The rail will be almost flush with the muzzle, I like that look, its planned. It would be great if I could get some help and answers towards my 4 questions.

If you feel like bashing a new member Noodles, find somebody else.

So please..

Here the questions again:

- Do you guys see any compatibility issues so far?
- Any parts that will be a better or lighter fit?
- Which of the 3 BCG would be best?
- Am I missing something (PARTS)?

[The FNG]

I thought 2A had the lightest receiver set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fluffy Bunny]

I guess my first post here will be to welcome you to the forum. I can't see how Noodles' post could possibly be interpreted as "bashing", so keep your cool.

I've heard secondhand accounts that running a rifle with a competition-style brake really close to the end of a long rail can cause gas to come back and blast you in the face. Once you get all your things put together I will be curious to hear whether this is a problem or not for you. I don't feel like looking through all those parts for every possible concern, so I'll just limit my time to the first problem I see: the barrel you have listed and the gas block you have listed won't be happy with each other. The sentry 7 gas block is for .750 barrels but the UL VooDoo is .625.

[The FNG]

I guess my first post here will be to welcome you to the forum. I can't see how Noodles' post could possibly be interpreted as "bashing", so keep your cool.

I've heard secondhand accounts that running a rifle with a competition-style brake really close to the end of a long rail can cause gas to come back and blast you in the face. Once you get all your things put together I will be curious to hear whether this is a problem or not for you. I don't feel like looking through all those parts for every possible concern, so I'll just limit my time to the first problem I see: the barrel you have listed and the gas block you have listed won't be happy with each other. The sentry 7 gas block is for .750 barrels but the UL VooDoo is .625.

Ya make sure you get the gas block the same size as the gas block journal on the barrel. Faxon has an ultra low-pro model that is very slim.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stickman]

- Am I missing something?



Yes....

[WS6]

This is not a first AR. This is a 50th AR when you have enough industry contacts that you have free shit to try out and spare cash and want to build a toy because you can.

[Benito]

Off topic, but best name and profile pic ever right there, OP.

[Mars attacks...]

Sounds like alot of ammo and training money traded for air. Go for the LE6920 like was stated.

[Leaveammoforme]

Sounds like alot of ammo and training money traded for air. Go for the LE6920 like was stated.

Maybe there's some limiting factor, thus the weight requirement. Who knows. I'm in the "6920 and ammo" camp but I'll play.

Seems to be a lot of money getting spent to learn on a first build. Your coin though.

Nothing jumps out as not compatible except for the previously mentioned gas block. Maybe leave out buffer retainer and spring to save more weight? Also as mentioned, you need a shorter rail. This will help work towards your light weight concept and be safer.

If it runs and you're goals are met, drive on.

[IronMaiden]

Thanks for the information regarding the gas block, much appreciated. I have to read up on that topic.

@WS6 and Mars: yes, this IS a ""toy"" for me and I'm going to build this just because I can. I bought a Wilson Combat 308 Super Sniper last month and threw glass from Kahles and a mount for another $3k at it. I say it one last time: this is not about money. I like challenging projects, that's all.

@Benito: Irons up!

Does anybody know what happened with Boomfab? They used to have a nice BCG but the website is semi dead. Are they out of business?

http://www.boomfab.com/

[titsonritz]

I see: the barrel you have listed and the gas block you have listed won't be happy with each other. The sentry 7 gas block is for .750 barrels but the UL VooDoo is .625.
They can be had in both sizes...14.5" Mid Length Evo Ultra Lite .750" C.O.R. VooDoo Barrel (http://www.adamsarms.net/145-mid-length-750-evo-ultra-lite)...but personally I'd get a BCM BFH ELW (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-14-5-Mid-Length-ENHANCED-LIGHT-WEIGHT-B-p/bcm-brl-mid-14.5-elw-bfh.htm), it's not just a weight thing but also a balance thing. (Actually I'd go with a 16" over the 14.5" save yourself some headache).



You need to add about 1 lb to your build weight, go with a standard BCG and how much weight are all those high dollar titanium parts going to save, couple of ounces?

Take it from a man how knows...go to 6:25


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOUKXIrDE0I

Not a fan of unitized drop-in triggers, suggest looking at Geissele.

[Brahmzy]

OP, pass on the Kaiser BCG for a V7. I have both and the V7 is superior in quality and finish. Weight is the exact same.

[themonk]

Yes....

I am in complete agreement with Stick

[Airhasz]

I'm looking forward to seeing op's build on a scale.:)

[TMS951]

You have listed many parts that are not even real. "V7 titanium buffer spring" and the like.

I'd sugest learning a lot before going for a F U expensive build with a finicky combo of operating parts.

If you have so much money to burn, pick up a Colt 6720 now as a learning platform. Based on what you want to spend on this build the 799$ for a 6720 would even dent your wallet, I doubt you know you even spent the money.

Then go for it. Right now you are going to build a 5.5 lbs rifle for a lot of money and other than being light and expensive it won't be that impressive otherwise compared to the 6720.

I finished a similar build to you recently, thought it has full weight BCG. Its cool, it was my 10th build. I wanted to do something different, I wanted to see how it would stack up against other 3000$ rifles. Its cool, it was a fun journey, the value is not there at all though. In hind sight 3 or 4 6720s would have been a better value, for the money spent.

[ColtSeavers]

First AR huh?

[redmist]

Lots of options out there, Sub 5lb can be had with a full mass/Mid Gas system that retains reliability. The titanium will help a bunch, just make sure it's used in the right places. FCG Pins, and Bolt catches are not those places in my mind. Having a decently durable rifle should be priority over weight in my opinion.

Ryan

[bigwagon]

No message

[jstalford]

I have an idea.

Since you seem intent on doing this and money isn't an object, what about starting with a 6720 and replacing parts one or a few at a time.

That way if you have function issues, you will have standard parts as back up and be able to easily troubleshoot.

Plus side is, if everything turns out swimmingly, you end up with two functioning rifles.


Does this 5-lb weight target include an optic or iron sights?

No


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IronMaiden]

They can be had in both sizes...14.5" Mid Length Evo Ultra Lite .750" C.O.R. VooDoo Barrel (http://www.adamsarms.net/145-mid-length-750-evo-ultra-lite)...but personally I'd get a BCM BFH ELW (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-14-5-Mid-Length-ENHANCED-LIGHT-WEIGHT-B-p/bcm-brl-mid-14.5-elw-bfh.htm), it's not just a weight thing but also a balance thing. (Actually I'd go with a 16" over the 14.5" save yourself some headache).

Not a fan of unitized drop-in triggers, suggest looking at Geissele.

Thanks for the link, I'll make sure they are both 0.750".

I'll try the VooDoo barrel first, if it's totally off I can still buy another one. I'm not expecting to have a "perfect" AR first try.

I thought about the HIPERTOUCH 24 3Gun trigger but ordered the Elftmann 3-gun Match just to try something different. The owner of the company seems to be very helpful in case the trigger needs to be tweaked. I wanted to give him a chance. If it causes repeat issues I'll go back to the HIPERTOUCH or a Geissele.




OP, pass on the Kaiser BCG for a V7. I have both and the V7 is superior in quality and finish. Weight is the exact same.

The Kaiser is advertised with a weight of 7.5 oz and the V7 with 7.9 oz. Not a huge difference. Did you put them on a scale? Did you run both for a while? Did the Kaiser show premature wear?

What about the JP Complete ULTRA LMOS Low Mass? At 5.59 oz it has a clear advantage in the weight department.




I'm looking forward to seeing op's build on a scale.:)

I'll post the build progress and weight here, unless this thread turns into a useless bashing just because I build my first AR with my own set of requirements away from the norm.




Lots of options out there, Sub 5lb can be had with a full mass/Mid Gas system that retains reliability. The titanium will help a bunch, just make sure it's used in the right places. FCG Pins, and Bolt catches are not those places in my mind. Having a decently durable rifle should be priority over weight in my opinion.

Ryan

Durability follows performance and a low weight in this build. I'm well aware that a lightweight BCG like the JP Complete ULTRA LMOS Low Mass won't last forever. I actually don't shot that much and much more enjoy the planning, building and learning experience. I haven’t even shot my Wilson 308 yet, I'm in no rush.

What do you suggest for the bolt catch and why exactly?

[Uprange41]

Some aspects of your build don't really make sense to me. You went with a 15" rail, when a 9"-10" would have sufficed for less weight, but then you want to lighten what is arguably the most critical part? Go with a standard BCG, flip the KMR here for a 9" or 10". I would also suggest that a Faxon Pencil barrel instead of the one you have. The Faxon 14.5" is lighter by ~5 ounces, even their 16" is lighter than the 14.5" VooDoo. A BAD .625" gas block also weighs about half that of the SLR you have.

[IronMaiden]

Some aspects of your build don't really make sense to me. You went with a 15" rail, when a 9"-10" would have sufficed for less weight, but then you want to lighten what is arguably the most critical part? Go with a standard BCG, flip the KMR here for a 9" or 10". I would also suggest that a Faxon Pencil barrel instead of the one you have. The Faxon 14.5" is lighter by ~5 ounces, even their 16" is lighter than the 14.5" VooDoo. A BAD .625" gas block also weighs about half that of the SLR you have.

I should have added the 15" rail to my list of requirements (which I just did). To stand corrected: this build is not exclusively low weight related. I could have saved a bunch with a poly lower etc. The long rail is for pure esthetic aspects. I could have opted for a shorter barrel but don't want to deal with a trust and 6 month waiting time now that things are going to change anyways.

Thanks for the pointer to the Faxon barrel. I’ll read up on this part and might very well go for it.

Regarding the gas block: the SLR Rifeworks titanium Sentry 7 is adjustable and correct me if I’m wrong the BAD is not. Since this is a build with a low weight BCG I assumed this will be necessary to balance the system accordingly.

[Uprange41]

I should have added the 15" rail to my list of requirements. To stand corrected: this build is not exclusively low weight related. I could have saved a bunch with a poly lower etc. The long rail is for pure esthetic aspects. I could have opted for a shorter barrel but don't want to deal with a trust and 6 month waiting time now that things are going to change anyways.

Thanks for the pointer to the Faxon barrel. I’ll read up on this part and might very well go for it.

Regarding the gas block: the SLR Rifeworks titanium Sentry 7 is adjustable and correct me if I’m wrong the BAD is not. Since this is a build with a low light BCG I assumed this will be necessary to balance the system accordingly.

The BAD is not, but using the Faxon barrel over the VooDoo would buy you (weight-wise) a standard BCG, and you would get any tuning done with the buffer.

[methical20]

If you stick a muzzle break INSIDE of your rail and won't be using a can exclusively, you have no business building an AR. You're running the risk of the end of your rail EXPLODING in your hand.

Get a full mass BCG. Especially if you want your rifle to function.

[IronMaiden]

If you stick a muzzle break INSIDE of your rail and won't be using a can exclusively, you have no business building an AR. You're running the risk of the end of your rail EXPLODING in your hand.

Get a full mass BCG. Especially if you want your rifle to function.


The muzzle break sticks out by about 1.5 inches: (14.5" + 2") - 15" = 1.5". I have seen this combo somewhere else and it worked properly.

[Defaultmp3]

The muzzle break sticks out by about 1.5 inches: (14.5" + 2") - 15" = 1.5". I have seen this combo somewhere else and it worked properly.

The threads on an AR barrel are 0.6", IIRC, so it'd be more like 13.9" + 2" - 15" = 0.9". The problem is, if you're using a brake/compensator, the ports obviously open up before the end of the muzzle device (unless it's a linear comp), so you may very well end up blasting the inside of your rail; for example, if you're using the V7 Furion, it would appear that a port opens up almost immediately after the threads (right around 14.5"), so you'd have at least one port inside the KMR, while the second port would probably clear the rail.

You may want to do a mock-up with your rail, barrel, and muzzle device of choice, since not all 15" rails are actually 15". Since this is a money-no-object built, you may wish to consider a 16" and just cut the barrel down to the appropriate length to get a Hella flush look.

[IronMaiden]

The threads on an AR barrel are 0.6", IIRC, so it'd be more like 13.9" + 2" - 15" = 0.9". The problem is, if you're using a brake/compensator, the ports obviously open up before the end of the muzzle device (unless it's a linear comp), so you may very well end up blasting the inside of your rail; for example, if you're using the V7 Furion, it would appear that a port opens up almost immediately after the threads (right around 14.5"), so you'd have at least one port inside the KMR, while the second port would probably clear the rail.

You may want to do a mock-up with your rail, barrel, and muzzle device of choice, since not all 15" rails are actually 15". Since this is a money-no-object built, you may wish to consider a 16" and just cut the barrel down to the appropriate length to get a Hella flush look.

The muzzle brake is actually 2.3" long and I took off 0.3" for the thread which bring us to 1.2” of the V7 Furion sticking out. You might be right.. the first holes might blast (partly) into the rail.

The rail was already delivered a couple days ago. I just measured it: it’s exactly 15 inches long on the sides. Luckily there are holes right at the front which will help to take the force out of the blast.

I’m trying to find the website where they used this rail with this brake on a 14.5” barrel. They didn’t report any issues on this.

All that being said I like your idea of no brake at all and a 100% flush look. But then again I also try to make this setup somewhat in the category of 3 gun firearms which makes a muzzle brake kinda obligatory.

[titsonritz]

You have listed many parts that are not even real. "V7 titanium buffer spring" and the like.
Pretty sure he is referring to the buffer retainer spring that comes with the buffer retainer which is actually SS

[Defaultmp3]

All that being said I like your idea of no brake at all and a 100% flush look. But then again I also try to make this setup somewhat in the category of 3 gun firearms which makes a muzzle brake kinda obligatory.That's not what I had meant, but I can also see the aesthetic appeal for that. Rather, I had meant that you cut and thread a 16" barrel so that the Furion's ports would not be obstructed by the rail, yet was still as flush as possible. However, if you say you've seen it been done before, go for it. Even if it was just your imagination, I imagine you'll figure out a way around it.

If aesthetics trump weight, I'd certainly be looking at running a linear comp or flash can off of a 13.7" barrel, perhaps a Noveske KX5.

[t15]

Ay bro take the advice already! Get a 13" kmr and a lw barrel profile ????????

Nothing about this build makes sense?????

Next time get a geissele, drop in triggers are for noobs.

[Noodles]

Such a silly case of miswanting.

I'm assuming OP came here to be congratulated about wanting to build an "xtreme" AR, then later hop on a talk about how to reduce recoil :D


Op, I'm sure with your Wilson Super Sniper or whatever and a 4lb AR you'll have all your bases covered - and with such money spent I'm sure your performance with those rifles will be unparalleled. Good luck!

[IronMaiden]

That's not what I had meant, but I can also see the aesthetic appeal for that. Rather, I had meant that you cut and thread a 16" barrel so that the Furion's ports would not be obstructed by the rail, yet was still as flush as possible. However, if you say you've seen it been done before, go for it. Even if it was just your imagination, I imagine you'll figure out a way around it.

If aesthetics trump weight, I'd certainly be looking at running a linear comp or flash can off of a 13.7" barrel, perhaps a Noveske KX5.


That flash suppressor adds 4.5 oz.. no thanks.

Found a image:

37741

[t15]

Don't blow your hand off bro. When than kmr let's go and peels like a banana it will happen fast.

Get some shims instead of a crush washer. That might help get you a little more length

[Voodoochild]

Noodles knock it off and act like an adult.

[GH41]

Slightly off topic.. IronMaiden, Who did you find to pin the ti comp?

[IronMaiden]

Slightly off topic.. IronMaiden, Who did you find to pin the ti comp?

I found a local aviation machine shop who have a certified Ti welder.

[Airhasz]

Like op's build or not, I find the thread interesting.

[PrivateCitizen]

Like op's build or not, I find the thread interesting.

Yup.

Honestly, this needs to become a photo-documentary … that would rock.

If nothing else it is an example of something we don't see often and the pics would really give some perspective.

[Benito]

To each their own, and if you want an AR to be sub-XY lbs, so be it.
However, the point of diminishing returns applies here.
There have been a couple of extreme light weight build threads here (and an accompanying blog - http://sixtyounces.tumblr.com/, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/26/the-sub-60oz-ar-project/, http://subsixtyounces.tumblr.com/) where a guy built 2 very light weight ARs. However, even he acknowledged it was a "just because" thing, a range gun experiment. If you have the cash, time and will for that, that's one thing. On the other hand, if you want an AR that is light but can be called on for (insert situation here), you can get one without getting too exotic.
The BCG is one place that I personally wouldn't want to experiment too much with. That said, I know V7 is a decent manufacturer.
Keep in mind that balance is just as important as weight - weight out front feels a lot heavier than weight close to you. That's why lightweight barrels/handguards/muzzle devices make a bigger difference than a lightweight buffer tube, ejection port door, etc. On the other end, a not-so-light stock will not affect the balance negatively at all. I'm not saying go buy the heaviest stock you can find, but don't overthink the ounces when it comes to stocks.
Going too light on the buffer and BCG can cause some other issues, depending on ammo used.
Lastly, I would not get a barrel that extends past the end of the handguard. Even if the ports clear the handguard (and they damn well better - https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?135012-I-blew-up-my-rail, http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g432/wsenefeld/Mobile%20Uploads/4890e97c8445062217f9fbd1d643d3ad.jpg) if down the road you decide you want to suppress it, the handguard might interfere with doing so.

If you had a couple of solid, reliable ARs already in the safe, I'd say go for it (as an experiment/project). For your first AR, though, I would not.

[IronMaiden]

Like op's build or not, I find the thread interesting.

Thanks. At the end of the day (build) it melts down to simple things like fun, experience and maybe something unique. If it’s not going to work out right away or at all, so be it. I’m not going to war with this AR and don’t rely on it one inch.



Yup.

Honestly, this needs to become a photo-documentary … that would rock.

Will do. The receiver set should be here in 3-4 weeks. The start of the build will take until then.




To each their own, and if you want an AR to be sub-XY lbs, so be it.
However, the point of diminishing returns applies here.
There have been a couple of extreme light weight build threads here (and an accompanying blog - http://sixtyounces.tumblr.com/, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/26/the-sub-60oz-ar-project/, http://subsixtyounces.tumblr.com/) where a guy built 2 very light weight ARs. However, even he acknowledged it was a "just because" thing, a range gun experiment. If you have the cash, time and will for that, that's one thing. On the other hand, if you want an AR that is light but can be called on for (insert situation here), you can get one without getting too exotic.
The BCG is one place that I personally wouldn't want to experiment too much with. That said, I know V7 is a decent manufacturer.
Keep in mind that balance is just as important as weight - weight out front feels a lot heavier than weight close to you. That's why lightweight barrels/handguards/muzzle devices make a bigger difference than a lightweight buffer tube, ejection port door, etc. On the other end, a not-so-light stock will not affect the balance negatively at all. I'm not saying go buy the heaviest stock you can find, but don't overthink the ounces when it comes to stocks.
Going too light on the buffer and BCG can cause some other issues, depending on ammo used.
Lastly, I would not get a barrel that extends past the end of the handguard. Even if the ports clear the handguard (and they damn well better - [..]) if down the road you decide you want to suppress it, the handguard might interfere with doing so.

If you had a couple of solid, reliable ARs already in the safe, I'd say go for it (as an experiment/project). For your first AR, though, I would not.


Thank you for the info. I might go with the V7 BCG, it's still a lightweight but closer to the middle of the spectrum. The JP BCG actually has a warning on the website indicating that it is a part that wears out.

Keep in mind, this will not be my last AR-15 build. I'm already making a parts list for my next project while collecting data. That will be a max $1k spec mil workhorse. But for now I have my mind set on this "unique" build. I don’t expect this to be a rational project. If things don’t work out, I’ll try other parts.

@All: I'm well aware that I'm trying a different route as a beginner. That’s actually the reason why I'm getting into it. Call it odd or call me nuts, that’s just the way it is. Now, I’d really appreciate constructive suggestions along the build within my requirements. Cheers.

[Brahmzy]

The Kaiser is advertised with a weight of 7.5 oz and the V7 with 7.9 oz. Not a huge difference. Did you put them on a scale? Did you run both for a while? Did the Kaiser show premature wear?

What about the JP Complete ULTRA LMOS Low Mass? At 5.59 oz it has a clear advantage in the weight department.

Of course I weighed them.
The Kaiser weighs 7.8oz complete on 2 calibrated scales.
The V7 weighs 7.8oz complete on 2 calibrated scales.
Both carriers weigh exactly 5.7oz.
Both weigh exactly 7.7oz with Ti Firing Pins.
The V7 Cam Pin that comes with the V7 carrier is 1 gram lighter than mil-spec (Kaiser) - not enough to trigger a difference on the ounce scale.

Think about it - they are the EXACT same carrier design and dimension, both Ti, and a bolt is a bolt.
Further evidence V7 is a standup company. My database of parts weights is exhaustive and I find a LOT of misleading/incorrect weights on manufacturers pages.

You absolutely can have a rock solid reliable rifle using light weight parts if you know what the hell you're doing.
Not rocket science, but again it's a combination of adjustable gas, expectations on ammo compatibility, carrier weight, buffer spring, buffer and thorough testing using weak ammo on a cold, dirty rifle lacking in lube.

I don't build rifles that can't pass basic, worse-case reliability tests.

Edit: Barrel / gas port size are obviously variables that are factored in. One rifle I built has an adjustable gas block wide open because the gas port size didn't have any headroom to be tweaked and still be 100% reliable.

[KUSA]

This will be you with your Handguard short barrel combo. Works good in cold weather to keep the hands warm.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/10424410cd6e1f3e26272fc6b1645949.jpg

[Brahmzy]

^^ LOL

Not understanding the logic behind an unexposed muzzle. When would that ever sound like a good idea? Forgot to screw the can on maybe? Certainly nobody would intentionally build a rifle with a Hand guard longer than the barrel? Right?

[Kenneth]

Doesn't salient arms build an AR with the rail over the muzzle break? Seems like they have a business building AR's and are successful at it...


Also it looks like some of there rifles are using a battle comp or something similar. Colion Noir uses one on his channel and show.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IronMaiden]

This will be you with your Handguard short barrel combo. Works good in cold weather to keep the hands warm.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160213/10424410cd6e1f3e26272fc6b1645949.jpg


^^ LOL

Not understanding the logic behind an unexposed muzzle. When would that ever sound like a good idea? Forgot to screw the can on maybe? Certainly nobody would intentionally build a rifle with a Hand guard longer than the barrel? Right?


I posted a photo of this setup and wrote twice that this setup was build and tested without any issues.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?180334-First-AR-15-4-4-5-lb&p=2266515#post2266515

https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=37741&d=1455307427

Are you guys capable of reading and comprehending?

If you don't have something constructive to say, PLEASE leave my thread and troll somewhere else.

[IronMaiden]

Doesn't salient arms build an AR with the rail over the muzzle break? Seems like they have a business building AR's and are successful at it...

Also it looks like some of there rifles are using a battle comp or something similar. Colion Noir uses one on his channel and show.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks for the info. I just pulled the video up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d768H2AnBuI


That's a very sweet AR! Here the brake within the rail. They have "cutouts" on both sides. I'd say it's somewhat comparable to my planned setup.

https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=37751&d=1455330321

[Brahmzy]

Unless you having something of value to add to this thread keep your comments to yourself.

Voodoochild.

[IronMaiden]

Just calculated all weights in my excel sheet. About half based on actual measurements, rest based on manufacturers info.

Didn't find any info regarding the Elftmann 3-gun Match trigger, will arrive in about 10 days, I assume 2 ounces since its somewhat skeletonised. Buffer will probably be changed later on.

62.84 oz = 3.93 lb

Looking good.

PS: I updated the first post with the current parts list. Changed: barrel, BCG and charging handle.

[redmist]

If you don't mind me asking, as weight is obviously a concern, what was the driving factor behind going with the BAD LW set?

Thanks!


Ryan

[IronMaiden]

If you don't mind me asking, as weight is obviously a concern, what was the driving factor behind going with the BAD LW set?

Thanks!

Ryan

It took me several days to make up my mind between the 2A-Armament set and the BAD LW set. Everything I could find indicated that they are both very well build. The 2A-Armament set is a little bit lighter but I prefer the "boxy" design of the BAD set. Also: Battle Arms just came out with the Gen 2 set which is a tad lighter and I thought I'll give them a try.

But I can guarantee you that I will end up getting a 2A-Armament set sooner or later.

[Travis B]

OP, here's a photo of my KMR13, 14.5" barrel and Rainier arms comp. I really advise against a 15" rail over a 14.5" barrel...

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u592/travisbeal/AF97DB50-09A4-47B5-8837-765F046520F9_zpsr4mkh2lo.jpg (http://s1323.photobucket.com/user/travisbeal/media/AF97DB50-09A4-47B5-8837-765F046520F9_zpsr4mkh2lo.jpg.html)

[IronMaiden]

OP, here's a photo of my KMR13, 14.5" barrel and Rainier arms comp. I really advise against a 15" rail over a 14.5" barrel...

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u592/travisbeal/AF97DB50-09A4-47B5-8837-765F046520F9_zpsr4mkh2lo.jpg (http://s1323.photobucket.com/user/travisbeal/media/AF97DB50-09A4-47B5-8837-765F046520F9_zpsr4mkh2lo.jpg.html)


The rail is already here and a must. I might get a 16" pencil barrel and cut it flush with the rail and no muzzle, or have a 16” cut and threaded to clear the muzzle 100%. Not sure yet. A couple washer would probably also clear a 14.5”.

What I’m not sure about so far is the buffer and spring. What would be a good match for the 5.6 oz BCG?

[Noodles]

Op, if you want the muzzle behind the rail, do it! Other people have made builds like that and been fine. I wouldn't let anyone specifically tell you you can't. In fact, I'd probably take it as a challenge.

So long as your rail isn't too short it's not like it'll be a "you might shoot your hand"' issue. I probably wouldn't run a linear comp but I'm also sure that's been done without failure.


On the buffer and spring... You know... A carbine spring with a DPMS shorty buffer (AR-10) would be the lightest bet. You'd need to limit the travel in the buffer tube with a Delrin or some UHMW stopper the size of the difference of the two buffers, but that's not a big issue, and would be light. And you know that shorty buffer is a legit part because DPMS style AR10s have used them forever.

[Travis B]

A 16" barrel would be ideal on the kmr15. The 3- and 6-o'clock rails extend slightly so a 15" kmr will cover slightly more than 15".


The rail is already here and a must. I might get a 16" pencil barrel and cut it flush with the rail and no muzzle, or have a 16” cut and threaded to clear the muzzle 100%. Not sure yet. A couple washer would probably also clear a 14.5”.

What I’m not sure about so far is the buffer and spring. What would be a good match for the 5.6 oz BCG?

[jerrysimons]

I definetly have some experience with what you are asking and I can pretty much spec you a rifle around your parameters. But I have some questions, since you stated this is your first AR. How do you plan on building it? Do you have a friend experianced with the proper tools and equipment? You can learn this stuff on your own if you are ambitious and willing to listen but you need to factor the set up cost into your price. Probably looking at about $500 to get set up properly if you don't have anything already.

With this in mind, I think the suggestions floated to get a prebuilt rifle that can meet your specs with some changes are wise. As you can see from my sub 4lb, completely-custom build thread, there are problems that may arise that can be very expensive and potentially dangerous. It really helps to know what you are doing or be willing to take advice.

Sub 6lbs at this point in the game is cake. Sub 5lbs is doable just more expensive. 4lbs and below gets pretty experimental and very expensive! Let me get back to you on a spec sheet when I have more time.

I would also encourage you consider being a little flexible in your parameters, after all you are asking people for advice who know what they are talking about, some of that advice may be different then what you have planned.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?169707-Project-%DCberlight-sub-4lb-SBR-sub-5lb-suppressed-SBR
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?146386-Noveske-Ultralight-(Update)

[Noodles]

I don't know jerrysimmons.

He wants what he wants, and he's on his way to it.

I think for OP a polymer lower with his LW BCG and a DPMS stubby buffer is what I'd recommend on to him going off his posts. I'd also maybe a C-more or Burris or some other mini red dot in leu of irons sights.

[Meta-Prometheus]

OP - Take a look at this video series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZrD8dKgpmM&list=PL9IS7xPfI3_JQS20-FXV-8xr8m6LaW18Z

You might be able to use a few ideas from this individual's build to help you decide what you want. It even looks like you have selected most of the same parts already. It also seems to have an appropriate build name, Project Lightsaber. I hope it can give you some ideas!

I hope that you will be able to achieve what you want out of this build, even if it is at a high cost. Good Luck.

[KUSA]

Are you guys capable of reading and comprehending?

If you don't have something constructive to say, PLEASE leave my thread and troll somewhere else.



Here my questions:

- Do you guys see any compatibility issues


You come here wanting advice. Many people tell you that it isn't a good idea to have the Handguard that long compared to the barrel.

My apologies if I upset you. However, you seemed a bit rude in the above post.

[jerrysimons]

I posted a photo of this setup and wrote twice that this setup was build and tested without any issues.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?180334-First-AR-15-4-4-5-lb&p=2266515#post2266515

https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=37741&d=1455307427

Are you guys capable of reading and comprehending?

If you don't have something constructive to say, PLEASE leave my thread and troll somewhere else.

What exact barrel with length and KMR rail length is that? Link? Judging by that photo it might be ok with THAT set-up, since the blast baffle, by a fair amount, is still ahead of the end of the side of the rail where the gas is getting redirected. I can't say it is advisable but THAT set-up would maybe be ok. Keep in mind barrel lengths can differ slightly even from the same manufacture and same barrel type. Definitely mock it up first! Use shims from Precision Armament to get some extra length past the barrel threads but don't over do it. Also, last I heard from Joel at V7WS, they had a service for pinning and welding their TI muzzle devices to barrels, but contact them to confirm they are still doing it.


The rail is already here and a must. I might get a 16" pencil barrel and cut it flush with the rail and no muzzle, or have a 16” cut and threaded to clear the muzzle 100%. Not sure yet. A couple washer would probably also clear a 14.5”.

What I’m not sure about so far is the buffer and spring. What would be a good match for the 5.6 oz BCG?

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to spend money on a TI bolt carrier and use any sort of buffer heavier than a carbine buffer. The reciprocating mass of the whole assembly must be taken into account. So you have three options: carbine buffer, gutted carbine buffer, or Taccom ultra light deralin buffer. Go with a SpringCo white spring over a standard mil-spec carbine spring. The material used is lighter. The white spring is also .1oz lighter than SpringCo a blue spring. Bolt bounce was brought up in a video in this thread and yes it is an issue for full-auto guns and in a semi-auto, duty gun I would seek to eliminate it for durabilitie's sake, but if this gun is a semi-auto range-toy, as you say, don't worry about it. The bolt will settle before you can pull the trigger again and you are not worried about accelerated bolt wear or replacement.

You definitely need gas regulation messing with a light weight reciprocating assembly. Go with a SLR rifleworks titanium Sentry 6 (SIX/.625") gas-block and don't look back (but you will have to cerakote it to get it black, I can give you tips on how to prep it beforehand or just call SLR). OR you could use a black BAD .625" titanium gas-block (the lightest I know of) and use an adjustable carrier-key set up. This method does work so far, but I am still in the process of hashing it out. Keep an eye on my sub 4lb SBR for updates since I am running both.

Also you said you are using the BAD saber tube set-up? Which one did you get, end-plate or non-end-plate version? You are stuck with their end-plate if you got the end-plate version since the tube does not have a groove for a regular end-plate notch. If you got the non-end-plate version, it will be a little lighter by deleting that part but you will have to make sure your take-down detent spring hole on the back is tapped and has the retaining screw with a shortened take-down detent spring in the hole. I think the BAD receivers are already tapped for a retaining screw but you will have to cut the spring and if you go with the lighter and superior looking (IMO) 2A Arms Balios-lite lower, you will have to tap the hole for threads too.

Aluminum is lighter than titanium, pay attention to what V7WS lower parts you are ordering, like take-down pins. Their aluminum stuff is blackened and lighter, so obvious choice for you. The V7WS bolt catch is S7 tool steel, do not get a titanium bolt catch from one of these other companies like redmist pointed out, not a good application for the material.

[IronMaiden]

OP - Take a look at this video series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZrD8dKgpmM&list=PL9IS7xPfI3_JQS20-FXV-8xr8m6LaW18Z

You might be able to use a few ideas from this individual's build to help you decide what you want. It even looks like you have selected most of the same parts already. It also seems to have an appropriate build name, Project Lightsaber. I hope it can give you some ideas!

I hope that you will be able to achieve what you want out of this build, even if it is at a high cost. Good Luck.


Thank you for the link, went right into my Favorites folder. That guy has indeed some of the same parts. Good link.

[IronMaiden]

What exact barrel with length and KMR rail length is that? Link? Judging by that photo it might be ok with THAT set-up, since the blast baffle, by a fair amount, is still ahead of the end of the side of the rail where the gas is getting redirected. I can't say it is advisable but THAT set-up would maybe be ok. Keep in mind barrel lengths can differ slightly even from the same manufacture and same barrel type. Definitely mock it up first! Use shims from Precision Armament to get some extra length past the barrel threads but don't over do it. Also, last I heard from Joel at V7WS, they had a service for pinning and welding their TI muzzle devices to barrels, but contact them to confirm they are still doing it.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to spend money on a TI bolt carrier and use any sort of buffer heavier than a carbine buffer. The reciprocating mass of the whole assembly must be taken into account. So you have three options: carbine buffer, gutted carbine buffer, or Taccom ultra light deralin buffer. Go with a SpringCo white spring over a standard mil-spec carbine spring. The material used is lighter. The white spring is also .1oz lighter than SpringCo a blue spring. Bolt bounce was brought up in a video in this thread and yes it is an issue for full-auto guns and in a semi-auto, duty gun I would seek to eliminate it for durabilitie's sake, but if this gun is a semi-auto range-toy, as you say, don't worry about it. The bolt will settle before you can pull the trigger again and you are not worried about accelerated bolt wear or replacement.

You definitely need gas regulation messing with a light weight reciprocating assembly. Go with a SLR rifleworks titanium Sentry 6 (SIX/.625") gas-block and don't look back (but you will have to cerakote it to get it black, I can give you tips on how to prep it beforehand or just call SLR). OR you could use a black BAD .625" titanium gas-block (the lightest I know of) and use an adjustable carrier-key set up. This method does work so far, but I am still in the process of hashing it out. Keep an eye on my sub 4lb SBR for updates since I am running both.

Also you said you are using the BAD saber tube set-up? Which one did you get, end-plate or non-end-plate version? You are stuck with their end-plate if you got the end-plate version since the tube does not have a groove for a regular end-plate notch. If you got the non-end-plate version, it will be a little lighter by deleting that part but you will have to make sure your take-down detent spring hole on the back is tapped and has the retaining screw with a shortened take-down detent spring in the hole. I think the BAD receivers are already tapped for a retaining screw but you will have to cut the spring and if you go with the lighter and superior looking (IMO) 2A Arms Balios-lite lower, you will have to tap the hole for threads too.

Aluminum is lighter than titanium, pay attention to what V7WS lower parts you are ordering, like take-down pins. Their aluminum stuff is blackened and lighter, so obvious choice for you. The V7WS bolt catch is S7 tool steel, do not get a titanium bolt catch from one of these other companies like redmist pointed out, not a good application for the material.


Now we are talking. Finally some really good info that I can work with. Thanks for jumping in Jerry.

The KMR rail I have here is the 15” version. The planned barrel is the Faxon 4150 QPQ with 14.5”. I changed that, my original plan was the Ultra Light VooDoo 14.5”

I remember that the rail in the photo is also a KMR 15” and they paired it with the VooDoo Ultra Light 14.5 barrel.

I’ll see how it stacks up. If it needs just a bit more clearance I’ll get those shims from Precision Armament. I’ll also contact V7 regarding the welding. I do have a local Ti guy but you never know.. firearms are not his daily job, at all. That’s great info right there and what I was hoping for!

The SpringCo white spring and Taccom ultra light deralin buffer just went right on the list.

For now I’ll stick with the adjustable gas block from SLR Rifleworks. What adjustable carrier-key set are you testing?

The Saber tube I ordered is the none end plate, mid length version. I’ll have to come back to you regarding cutting the spring.

I have the lightweight BAD set on order since a week, should be here in 3.

I almost didn't see the difference on the V7 site, their online shops takes a bit to get use to. Before I’ll order the V7 stuff I’ll post it here just to make sure I’m not missing parts.

Thanks again for your post, much appreciated.

[Livefreeordie92]

I’m in the process of buying the parts for my first AR-15 build and could need some pointers on my way.

The rifle will have no distinct purpose. When it runs decently I’ll take it to the rang and if it runs reliable I’ll keep it around for HD, but basically this build is all about fun and learning.

Here the list of requirements:

- needs to be lightweight, around 4 – 4.5 lb without sights and mag
- parts need to be of high quality
- entire rifle needs to be black
- 14.5” barrel plus 1.5+” muzzle device
- 15" rail for a "flush" look with the barrel
- no poly or carbon receiver / hand guard / stock


Here is my parts list so far, everything that is already ordered is green:

Receiver Set: Battle Arms BAD556-LW
Receiver Pins: Battle Arms BAD-EPS-Ti-B
Rail: BCM KMR BCM-KMR-15-556-BLK
Stock: Battle Arms SABERTUBE-M-B-COMBO
Trigger: Elftmann 3-gun Match
Grip: B5 Systems P-Grip
Ejection Port Door: Strike Industries
Sight: Aimpoint Micro T-2
Sight Mount: Scalarworks LDM/Micro

Barrel: 14.5" Mid Length Faxon 4150 QPQ
Gas Block: SLR Rifeworks titanium Sentry 7
BCG: SCT Titanium Bolt Carrier Group
Buffer: Rainier Arms Carbine
Charging Handle: V7 Weapon Systems Aluminum lightweight AR-15
Magazine Plate: MagPod

Muzzle Brake: V7 Weapon Systems FURION Satin Ti Black
Gas Tube: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Barrel Nut: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Buffer Tube: V7 Weapon Systems
Buffer Spring: V7 Weapon Systems
Castle Nut: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Buffer Retainer Pin: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Mag Release: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Bolt Catch: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Safety: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium
Grip Screw: V7 Weapon Systems Titanium


Here my questions:

- Do you guys see any compatibility issues so far?
- Any parts that will be a better or lighter fit?
- Which of the 3 BCG would be best?
- Am I missing something?

What you're searching for does not exist. You may get low 5 lbs but is that worth the cost of all those specialized, non standard parts? Just grab an ELW KMR upper and build up a lightweight lower.
And as for the longer rail, you're getting our constructive opinions. If you just want to hear how awesome this sounds, this isn't exactly the place that's going to happen.

[Livefreeordie92]

Here's the thing man, as a first AR there's a good chance this thing will cause a lot more headaches than something proven to be reliable, I.E. A Colt or BCM. That's what we're getting at. Start to go unorthodox with stuff, you may figure out the hard way why those parts aren't standard.

[IronMaiden]

Here's the thing man, as a first AR there's a good chance this thing will cause a lot more headaches than something proven to be reliable, I.E. A Colt or BCM. That's what we're getting at. Start to go unorthodox with stuff, you may figure out the hard way why those parts aren't standard.


What you're searching for does not exist. You may get low 5 lbs but is that worth the cost of all those specialized, non standard parts? Just grab an ELW KMR upper and build up a lightweight lower.
And as for the longer rail, you're getting our constructive opinions. If you just want to hear how awesome this sounds, this isn't exactly the place that's going to happen.


"Doesn't exist"? "May get 5 lb"? How about reading the entire thread? Parts so far are at 62.84 oz = 3.93 lb. Another guy just posted today a very comparable build, also at 4 lb. What was the last time you build a 4 lb AR-15? Never? I see. What I spend my money on is my business. If stuff doesn’t work out - I also said that before – I’ll try other parts. Even if I end up with parts worth $20k. I do not care. This is not about money. How many times do I have to repeat that?

I asked specific questions and not what kind of build I should put together. By totally ignoring my build-requirements you make yourself what? Ignorant. Move on. Don't bother to reply. Ignored.

I think I move this build to PM communication with those who are actually on topic. Not worth dealing with this.

[MtnMan6114]

Following.
Kudos for the attempt of the build if nothing else, (from someone with health issues that a light weight AR is the first priority). With all the poly and carbon fiber lowers and uppers that are being manufactured it will be awesome to see the finished result come in at the specified weight using metal. And if there are issues-fix them! Thomas Edison didn't build the electric light bulb on his first attempt.
Pictures would be nice too...

[Fluffy Bunny]

I guess I'll add one more post to this thread.

Do you have any 3 gun action nearby? If I was going to throw a rifle together with the lightest action (bolt buffer etc) I would definitely try to speak with some sportsmen about their experience. Online forums aren't everything. At the very least someone might share a reloading recipe you might like.

[IronMaiden]

I'll post my 2 builds in a different location due to this nonsense and trolling going on in this thread. I'm too old for kindergarten replies just because I'm trying a different approach away from the beaten path. I'll PM everybody who showed true and serious interest in my build and leave it up to them if they want to follow and help out with proper advise based on my set of requirements, and not some unrelated bullshit I never asked for, to be seen in both of my build threads.

That’s one way to get rid of new user.. good job.

[titsonritz]

"Doesn't exist"? "May get 5 lb"? How about reading the entire thread? Parts so far are at 62.84 oz = 3.93 lb. Another guy just posted today a very comparable build, also at 4 lb. What was the last time you build a 4 lb AR-15? Never? I see. What I spend my money on is my business. If stuff doesn’t work out - I also said that before – I’ll try other parts. Even if I end up with parts worth $20k. I do not care. This is not about money. How many times do I have to repeat that?



Have you considered a carbon fiber barrel? Proof Research AR Carbon Fiber Barrel
(http://proofresearch.com/the-products/barrels/ar-carbon-fiber-barrel-calibers-lengths/)

[Benito]

I'll post my 2 builds in a different location due to this nonsense and trolling going on in this thread. I'm too old for kindergarten replies just because I'm trying a different approach away from the beaten path. I'll PM everybody who showed true and serious interest in my build and leave it up to them if they want to follow and help out with proper advise based on my set of requirements, and not some unrelated bullshit I never asked for, to be seen in both of my build threads.

That’s one way to get rid of new user.. good job.

Don't get too wound up about it. Uber-lightweight builds are interesting to me (as they can be a test bed for new technologies/materials). Just be aware that:
- perceived recoil will increase a bit (but using a brake will virtually eliminate this)
- cost will increase
- the weight advantage will not feel as significant once you add loaded mag, optic, light, etc.
- you may have to experiment with springs, gas block settings and whatnot to cycle reliably with your ammo.

Do post once complete. To echo what a previous poster mentioned, the SLR Sentry is a great adjustable gas block (to balance the acton when using lightweight BCG, etc.). I have a regular Melonite Steel one, with the Titanium one being lighter and more $$



Have you considered a carbon fiber barrel? Proof Research AR Carbon Fiber Barrel
(http://proofresearch.com/the-products/barrels/ar-carbon-fiber-barrel-calibers-lengths/)

That is a good suggestion, actually. I've shot a Proof Research barreled gun (albeit only at 25 yards) and it is extremely light.

[Noodles]

That is a good suggestion, actually. I've shot a Proof Research barreled gun (albeit only at 25 yards) and it is extremely light.

Ah! Totally, how could I forget the Proof barrel. OP should absolutely buy a 14.5" Propf barrel and pin and weld his muzzle brake. Another good recommendation.

[b2dap1]

Why not just get a 3D printer and make the entire rifle from the ground up?

[jerrysimons]

Have you considered a carbon fiber barrel? Proof Research AR Carbon Fiber Barrel
(http://proofresearch.com/the-products/barrels/ar-carbon-fiber-barrel-calibers-lengths/)

Not sure if those barrels are actually that light. I know they are lighter than steel but I think they have a focus on accuracy and essentially use carbon fiber to have a big bull barrel that weights only a little less than a regular barrel. I have not been able to find weights for these barrels and have never bought one to know for sure.

[jerrysimons]

I'll post my 2 builds in a different location due to this nonsense and trolling going on in this thread. I'm too old for kindergarten replies just because I'm trying a different approach away from the beaten path. I'll PM everybody who showed true and serious interest in my build and leave it up to them if they want to follow and help out with proper advise based on my set of requirements, and not some unrelated bullshit I never asked for, to be seen in both of my build threads.

That’s one way to get rid of new user.. good job.

As far as it not being possible it is. In fact I have everything except the BAD .625" gas-block to take my sub 4lb 8.25" .300blk SBR to a 556 14.5" w/ permed muzzle device non-NFA gun. I will be using 2A Armament balios lite upper reciever w/ V7WS port door parts, a 14.5" Faxon Pencil barrel, BCM 10" KMR w/ V7WS titanium mounting parts, BAD .625 black Ti gas-block, and permed V7WS titanium extended v-grooved A2 flash hider. Then swapping the bolt carrier using gas key regulation and charging handle from the NFA upper it will come in right at 4lbs 5oz WITH sights and RDS (a gun is useless without sights so I include them in all my target weights). So what you are doing is possible you just need to understand it is a range toy only and reliability is likely to suffer while issue arise.

Op, you want what you want, I am happy to help but do understand what you are attempting to do is not so much in the overall ethos of this forum, cut the guys some slack that think it is silly.

[PaLEOjd]

Not trying to be rude but this topic seems like it would fit perfectly over on TOF.
It's a really strange sounding rifle build and doesn't seem practical at all but it's not my rifle so obviously is doesn't matter if I think it's a little silly.
The OP wants what he wants, it's just not the norm around here for guys who actually use their rifles and do not look for a show piece.
I am definitely interested in finished pictures to see what the OP ends up with though, just not my cup of tea.

[jerrysimons]

No need to run somebody off. There is room for this stuff here too.
Likewise there is no need to get wound around the axle over disagreement and naysayers on an anonymous Internet forum.

[Press Check]

.....

[PaLEOjd]

No need to run somebody off. There is room for this stuff here too.
Likewise there is no need to get wound around the axle over disagreement and naysayers on an anonymous Internet forum.

My intent wasn't to attempt to run anybody off of here. It was simply suggesting that TOS would better fit this specific topic. There are several people over there into things like the OP described and he may get better advise on such a build there.
If it were for building a rifle for duty carry or the like, the better advise and experience is here. That's what I was getting at with my post, not trying to push someone off. I apologize if anyone else took it that way.

[DaBigBR]

When I read this thread, the term "confirmation bias" comes to mind.

"Hey guys, this is what I want to build and I want you to tell me I'm right. Replies that do not support my plan are trolling and I do not want to hear them."

[ballsagna]

Exactly

Sent while driving 80mph on the freeway

[themonk]

Ever think this thread is a troll inside a troll forcing you to be the troll

[redmist]

I just want to state again, that a fully reliable, durable, and very nice rifle with a full mass carrier, standard type buffer and spring and Mid-Gas system can be built or even purchased that is 5lbs and under. It needs to be done correctly, and they can be very nice as duty guns, or carbine classes, or whatever.

It's hard to advance into the lightweight game for some, just as some tend to think that old cars from the 60's are safer to drive over new cars. (If that makes sense, it might not be the best comparison.)

If you can get past all the gimmicks, and look at exactly what is being done to the rifle to make it what it is, it will make sense. Being lightweight is one thing if you are trying to win the scale war on the internet.... Building or purchasing a rifle that is meant to function is another.

Doing the homework, and discussion with others on forums can bring a lot of good information to light.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55390615e4b0b031ade51e4b/t/560ca7bbe4b0041ccfeb3103/1443669996709/?format=1000w

[The FNG]

Pretty sure the OP has ditched these threads...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[titsonritz]

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/55390615e4b0b031ade51e4b/t/560ca7bbe4b0041ccfeb3103/1443669996709/?format=1000w
What rails do you have there?

[redmist]

What rails do you have there?

That's most certainly not me!

The Rifle he is using now is the CSAT Javlin.

[titsonritz]

That's most certainly not me!

The Rifle he is using now is the CSAT Javlin.
Sorry making that assumption.

Here are the details on the CSAT Javlin (http://www.hunterrifleworks.com/csat).

[titsonritz]

Here is another carbon fiber option: Christensen Arms carbon-fiber barrels (https://www.rainierarms.com/christensen-arms-ca-15-carbon-barrel-assembly-223-wylde-5-56-nato) 16" Overall Weight – 1.7 lbs. Gas System: Mid Length

[Uprange41]

Here is another carbon fiber option: Christensen Arms carbon-fiber barrels (https://www.rainierarms.com/christensen-arms-ca-15-carbon-barrel-assembly-223-wylde-5-56-nato) 16" Overall Weight – 1.7 lbs. Gas System: Mid Length

My thing with carbon fiber barrels is that they aren't meant to be the lightest barrels... they're meant to be the stiffest for the weight. So that 27oz Christensen weighs considerably more than a Faxon 16" pencil (19oz), let alone a simple 16" BCM BFH ELW (22oz). I don't know what the Proof barrel weighs, but if it's less than the Faxon (which, I should note I don't hold as a grail of lightweight, it's just the lightest I personally know of), I'll be surprised.

[redmist]

The Proof 16" barrels are about 6ish oz heavier over the 16" FAXON Pencils. Very nice however!

Ryan

[VIP3R 237]

Here is another carbon fiber option: Christensen Arms carbon-fiber barrels (https://www.rainierarms.com/christensen-arms-ca-15-carbon-barrel-assembly-223-wylde-5-56-nato) 16" Overall Weight – 1.7 lbs. Gas System: Mid Length

I would never recommend a Christensen barrel for a semi auto. The epoxy and UV coating they use acts as an insulator which kills your barrel life.

[Noodles]

I have a proof barrel, it's tits. Yea, not as light as pencil, but close, without a the negative of poor consistency.

I for one, am very upset that OP has gone into hiding :\

[jerrysimons]

Really the most critical part of building a reliable lightweight rifle is sticking with normal weight reciprocating parts, namely a bolt carrier and buffer. Sub 5 lbs is doable as redmist points out, though sub 4 lbs is probably not doable with sights, standard BCG and buffer weights, and a decent stock set up.

The Faxon 14.5 Pencil barrel I weighed at 17.63oz.

Those proof barrels interest me but what is their voodoo that the carbon is not just an insulating sleeve and the steel liner doesn't just glow till the rifling is shot out?

Pretty sure, Op bounced out.

[Uprange41]

True dat, Noodles (about the barrel being light w/out consequence).

I spec'd out a lightweight backpacking build awhile back, while deciding what made most sense for the weight to power ratio (it was specifically for black bears around camp at night... spoiler alert; the AR didn't win). Browsing a few sites for weights, mine came to 5 flat with the Faxon 16", BAD receivers and stock, KMR13, standard BCG/H buffer, an Inforce WML, and Magpul MBUS Pro's. Not bad, just didn't make as much sense for my needs as other options.

Was interesting to see where I could shave the weight, though.

[_Stormin_]

I for one, am very upset that OP has gone into hiding :\

Meh.. Not the first time someone with less than 50 posts got grumpy when someone called them out, and not the last...

[hotrodder636]

I am interested in the VLW builds, so this one has my attention. Maybe the OP gets his panties out of a wad and shows the build.

[FaxonNathan]

I don't know what the Proof barrel weighs, but if it's less than the Faxon (which, I should note I don't hold as a grail of lightweight, it's just the lightest I personally know of), I'll be surprised.

We dont know of any lighter.

Let the Holy Grail holding commence. ;)

[jerrysimons]

We dont know of any lighter.

Let the Holy Grail holding commence. ;)

11.5" carbine gas pencil barrel would be cool! Especially a .076" or less gas port.

[nml]

Colt M4 Commando obviously has larger gas port than that but sub 6 lbs anyways

[Iraqgunz]

SIONICS makes a LW 11.5" barrel with that spec. :cool:


11.5" carbine gas pencil barrel would be cool! Especially a .076" or less gas port.