View Full Version : SPR-ish Build
Just want some opinions here:
I'm about to buy a barrel for my "SPR-ish" build. 18" rifle length. I'm eyeing the Ballistic Advantage SPR barrel so far. Heard good things about BA and like the price. Would like to keep the barrel in the $200-250 range. Additionally, I don't know what muzzle device to go with. Definitely don't need the OPS inc device, as I won't be using a suppressor. I'm kind of thinking something along the lines of a flash suppressor may be best? Not really sure.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Bcm ss stripped barrel is $310. The one a friend has will put up sub moa 5 - shot groups with a variety of ammo.
Functional has been flawless, though he only has a few hundred rounds so far.
glock21xxx
02-15-16, 08:44
Just want some opinions here:
I'm about to buy a barrel for my "SPR-ish" build. 18" rifle length. I'm eyeing the Ballistic Advantage SPR barrel so far. Heard good things about BA and like the price. Would like to keep the barrel in the $200-250 range. Additionally, I don't know what muzzle device to go with. Definitely don't need the OPS inc device, as I won't be using a suppressor. I'm kind of thinking something along the lines of a flash suppressor may be best? Not really sure.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
BA is GTG. I have a few of their barrels (.233w and .308) and have treated me good. I have consistently gotten .5 to .75 moa with good ammo.
Bcm ss stripped barrel is $310. The one a friend has will put up sub moa 5 - shot groups with a variety of ammo.
Functional has been flawless, though he only has a few hundred rounds so far.
Good to know. Probably a little more than I'm wanting to spend though.
BA is GTG. I have a few of their barrels (.233w and .308) and have treated me good. I have consistently gotten .5 to .75 moa with good ammo.
That's kind of what I've been hearing and reading. That's why I'm leaning toward their barrel so far. I found their 18" SPR barrel for $170 at AIM Surplus, which seems like a helluva deal.
I've got one BA barrel and my coworker has one. We've both had good experiences with them.
I've got one BA barrel and my coworker has one. We've both had good experiences with them.
Awesome. Thanks for the reply!
For muzzle device I would go with an A2 to start, you can always change it out later if you decide to do so.
nobody mentioned white oak? Well then, I will mention White Oak Armament. They are going to be my choice for my sprish build that I am finishing in the next month or so.
nobody mentioned white oak? Well then, I will mention White Oak Armament. They are going to be my choice for my sprish build that I am finishing in the next month or so.
I've heard good things about them, but with a $170 price tag for the BA barrel on AIM Surplus, it's looking pretty hard to beat.
I forgot all about aim surplus because I was too busy going back and forth between BCM, WOA,and rainier arms. I think WOA is $265 with gas system.
I went noveske and I have no regrets.
I went noveske and I have no regrets.
The Noveske barrels are certainly nice, I'm still just thinking the BA barrel is best bang for the buck.
Springfield
02-17-16, 01:54
If you are not putting a suppressor on it, you could always just run a A2 and put the money you would have spent on a fancy muzzle device towards a more expensive barrel if you wanted. When I think SPR, I think slightly longer heavier rifle which will likely not be fired at the same rate as a carbine and therefore the interest in controlling muzzle rise is not as vital. To be honest, I am not a fan of brakes on my rifles because I don't like the increased muzzle blast/flash especially on the short barrels. I understand everyone has different priorities and some people love brakes so take my post only as an opinion.
Eurodriver
02-17-16, 07:34
I've never understood these "budget" SPR builds. Of course, everyone has a budget and not everyone can run out and buy a NF and a Krieger.
But an SPR's entire role is to shoot very far, very accurately. The most important aspect of that is the barrel, followed extremely closely by the optic. Yet dudes will run out and buy the least expensive barrel they can find and throw a Nikon on top of it. :confused:
Do you guys think BA sells their barrels for $170 because they have some magic sauce formula to make a super accurate barrel at a lower price point or perhaps they are cutting corners someplace that the more vetted brands aren't? We all know the differences in button rifled vs cut rifled but what about apples-apples and a BA vs BCM or Noveske Tube? There is obviously something going on and I'm not trying to waste my time shooting at 1000 yards with components that will hold me back. I want my rifle to shoot better than me so I can grow into it, not the other way around.
0.5 MOA sounds great at 100 yards, but when you get barrels that are stressed improperly during production and then sold anyway (because throwing away barrels that "will do" is expensive and probably not someone using a cost leadership strategy gives a shit about - additionally the types of buyers paying $170 probably won't know the difference anyway) it will cause SD issues that will really hurt you beyond 500 yards. There are some very good recent posts in the precision semi auto forum about this topic.
If you're just going for looks to post up pictures on an internet forum or show off your buddies at the local 100 yard gun club then any barrel mentioned so far will probably work fine. But if you want an actual "SPR-ish" build to do "SPR-ish" things the absolute very last place you should be compromising is the barrel. It never ceases to amaze me that dudes will spend $250 on an Atlas bipod, $230 on a Geiselle trigger, $200 on a MUR upper, $350 on a DD Rail, and then say they don't want to spend too much on the barrel...for an SPR.
It's the equivalent of buying a vintage AC Cobra body and then throwing a Toyota Yaris 1.5L in it because you want a good "Bang for the buck".
I've never understood these "budget" SPR builds. Of course, everyone has a budget and not everyone can run out and buy a NF and a Krieger.
But an SPR's entire role is to shoot very far, very accurately. The most important aspect of that is the barrel, followed extremely closely by the optic. Yet dudes will run out and buy the least expensive barrel they can find and throw a Nikon on top of it. :confused:
Do you guys think BA sells their barrels for $170 because they have some magic sauce formula to make a super accurate barrel at a lower price point or perhaps they are cutting corners someplace that the more vetted brands aren't? We all know the differences in button rifled vs cut rifled but what about apples-apples and a BA vs BCM or Noveske Tube? There is obviously something going on and I'm not trying to waste my time shooting at 1000 yards with components that will hold me back. I want my rifle to shoot better than me so I can grow into it, not the other way around.
0.5 MOA sounds great at 100 yards, but when you get barrels that are stressed improperly during production and then sold anyway (because throwing away barrels that "will do" is expensive and probably not someone using a cost leadership strategy gives a shit about - additionally the types of buyers paying $170 probably won't know the difference anyway) it will cause SD issues that will really hurt you beyond 500 yards. There are some very good recent posts in the precision semi auto forum about this topic.
If you're just going for looks to post up pictures on an internet forum or show off your buddies at the local 100 yard gun club then any barrel mentioned so far will probably work fine. But if you want an actual "SPR-ish" build to do "SPR-ish" things the absolute very last place you should be compromising is the barrel. It never ceases to amaze me that dudes will spend $250 on an Atlas bipod, $230 on a Geiselle trigger, $200 on a MUR upper, $350 on a DD Rail, and then say they don't want to spend too much on the barrel...for an SPR.
It's the equivalent of buying a vintage AC Cobra body and then throwing a Toyota Yaris 1.5L in it because you want a good "Bang for the buck".
Can't argue one bit with anything you said, Eurodriver. I completely get it. The reason I have this titled "SPR-ish Build" is because I could really think of a better way to put it except "18" rifle-length semi-budget bench-ish build" haha. To me, the "ish" is a disclaimer saying that while this build will have similarities to an SPR, it isn't one. Which, it isn't, and never would be unless I was willing to drop around $3-4k, maybe more. While I would love to, I simply cannot afford to do so. Additionally, the likelihood of me shooting this at 1000 yards is mostly non existent. I don't know a place where I could even do so around here. However, the likelihood of me shooting 6-700 yards is much higher.
I do not take any offense to what you said, and frankly, I agree with it. This isn't an SPR, and won't be, and wasn't intended to be. My intention is for it to be a decent, accurate rifle out to 700 yards that's fun to shoot and is affordable for my budget.
Eurodriver
02-17-16, 09:29
Understandable. I wasn't trying to offend you, so that's good. But think about maybe stepping up just another tier on the barrel. Even at 700 you'll notice a difference! :)
Understandable. I wasn't trying to offend you, so that's good. But think about maybe stepping up just another tier on the barrel. Even at 700 you'll notice a difference! :)
So, say I'm willing to put about $350 into a barrel - would you recommend a WOA or BCM SS at that price range?
If you are not putting a suppressor on it, you could always just run a A2 and put the money you would have spent on a fancy muzzle device towards a more expensive barrel if you wanted. When I think SPR, I think slightly longer heavier rifle which will likely not be fired at the same rate as a carbine and therefore the interest in controlling muzzle rise is not as vital. To be honest, I am not a fan of brakes on my rifles because I don't like the increased muzzle blast/flash especially on the short barrels. I understand everyone has different priorities and some people love brakes so take my post only as an opinion.
I have considered just the good ol' A2. I'm also wondering if something like a BE 249f or a Vortex or something of that nature would be weird or okay or suit this build? I'm not that well-versed in muzzle devices.
Euro speaks truth.
You build the rifle around the barrel, not slap a barrel on a rifle with gimmicks already in progress.
You may as well stick with a factory barrel.
So, say I'm willing to put about $350 into a barrel - would you recommend a WOA or BCM SS at that price range?
I would be looking at these barrels, in that price range:
Sionics 18" 416R SS .223 Wylde SPR Barrel (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/18/30-5-chrome-lined-w-low-profile-gas-block.html)
BCM 18" SS410™ Barrel (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-18-Mk12-SS410-Barrel-with-Rifle-Length-Gas-p/bcm-brl-rec-18ss.htm)
Not trying to be argumentative, but doesn't the "real" spr use a button rifled Douglas blank? Stress relieving is done by the barrel maker if I'm not mistaken, not the shop that chambers it. While cut rifling does seem to hold peak accuracy longer, there isn't any denying that a properly made button rifled barrel can hold its own. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I would be looking at these barrels, in that price range:
Sionics 18" 416R SS .223 Wylde SPR Barrel (http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store2015/18/30-5-chrome-lined-w-low-profile-gas-block.html)
BCM 18" SS410™ Barrel (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-18-Mk12-SS410-Barrel-with-Rifle-Length-Gas-p/bcm-brl-rec-18ss.htm)
Thanks for the links. Knew about the BCM, but wasn't aware of the Sionics.
Eurodriver
02-17-16, 11:56
Not trying to be argumentative, but doesn't the "real" spr use a button rifled Douglas blank? Stress relieving is done by the barrel maker if I'm not mistaken, not the shop that chambers it. While cut rifling does seem to hold peak accuracy longer, there isn't any denying that a properly made button rifled barrel can hold its own. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Absolutely. No one said a button rifled barrel can't be accurate, but as you know a cut rifled barrel will have longer life and the potential for better accuracy.
The issue to which I'm referring compares button rifled barrels of good quality to those of lesser quality. An SPR does use a button rifled barrel. It does not cost $170 at AIM Surplus.
This should be a clue to those interested. I don't know who makes BA barrel blanks but I can't possibly see them getting the same attention to detail that another brand even if they use the same blanks at that price.
If I ever build I'm going with a V7 weapon systems 18 inch. No particular reason but damn his stuff is sexy. (And expensive)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If I ever build I'm going with a V7 weapon systems 18 inch. No particular reason but damn his stuff is sexy. (And expensive)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love me some V7. They make great stuff.
No doubt, they aren't kreiger, bartlein, etc. The one I have is a 16" stainless and it shoots on par with the rainier 16" match I have on another rifle. Neither of those shoot as good as the Lothar Walther or AR15 Performance barrels I have on others. The one BA I have shoots .8-1" at 100yds with 69gr smk's loaded at mag length over 24.5gr of Varget. That is a load that shoots good in every rifle I own. In my example of 1, it is machined as well as anything else I have but a little over gassed IMO. Paid a whopping $190 for it and it's good for what I paid for it. I didn't pay kreiger/bartlein $$$ so I didn't expect kreiger/bartlein groups. @Eurodriver, Can't wait to see how your new gun turns out, looks top notch so far.
No doubt, they aren't kreiger, bartlein, etc. The one I have is a 16" stainless and it shoots on par with the rainier 16" match I have on another rifle. Neither of those shoot as good as the Lothar Walther or AR15 Performance barrels I have on others. The one BA I have shoots .8-1" at 100yds with 69gr smk's loaded at mag length over 24.5gr of Varget. That is a load that shoots good in every rifle I own. In my example of 1, it is machined as well as anything else I have but a little over gassed IMO. Paid a whopping $190 for it and it's good for what I paid for it. I didn't pay kreiger/bartlein $$$ so I didn't expect kreiger/bartlein groups. @Eurodriver, Can't wait to see how your new gun turns out, looks top notch so far.
Thanks for the input. This helps me out quite a bit. I absolutely do not expect top-notch performance out of the BA SPR barrel. It sounds like, for the performance it provides, the price is right. I'd love to throw a Krieger on this build, but it's simply not part of my budget.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/18-chf-stainless-steel-a2-profile-223-wylde-1-8-barrel.html
Here is an additional barrel choice. One rides in my SPR, it's performed extremely well with a variety of factory and hand loaded ammunition.
Barrel length 18"
Cold Hammer Forged
410 Stainless Steel
Passivated finish
A2-style profile
223 Wylde Chamber
1 in 8" twist rate
Rifle-length gas system
.750 gas block diameter
M4 Feedramps
PrivateCitizen
02-17-16, 17:18
I've never understood these "budget" SPR builds. Of course, everyone has a budget and not everyone can run out and buy a NF and a Krieger.
But an SPR's entire role is to shoot very far, very accurately. The most important aspect of that is the barrel, followed extremely closely by the optic. Yet dudes will run out and buy the least expensive barrel they can find and throw a Nikon on top of it. :confused:
Do you guys think BA sells their barrels for $170 because they have some magic sauce formula to make a super accurate barrel at a lower price point or perhaps they are cutting corners someplace that the more vetted brands aren't? We all know the differences in button rifled vs cut rifled but what about apples-apples and a BA vs BCM or Noveske Tube? There is obviously something going on and I'm not trying to waste my time shooting at 1000 yards with components that will hold me back. I want my rifle to shoot better than me so I can grow into it, not the other way around.
0.5 MOA sounds great at 100 yards, but when you get barrels that are stressed improperly during production and then sold anyway (because throwing away barrels that "will do" is expensive and probably not someone using a cost leadership strategy gives a shit about - additionally the types of buyers paying $170 probably won't know the difference anyway) it will cause SD issues that will really hurt you beyond 500 yards. There are some very good recent posts in the precision semi auto forum about this topic.
If you're just going for looks to post up pictures on an internet forum or show off your buddies at the local 100 yard gun club then any barrel mentioned so far will probably work fine. But if you want an actual "SPR-ish" build to do "SPR-ish" things the absolute very last place you should be compromising is the barrel. It never ceases to amaze me that dudes will spend $250 on an Atlas bipod, $230 on a Geiselle trigger, $200 on a MUR upper, $350 on a DD Rail, and then say they don't want to spend too much on the barrel...for an SPR.
It's the equivalent of buying a vintage AC Cobra body and then throwing a Toyota Yaris 1.5L in it because you want a good "Bang for the buck".
Don't disagree on any particular point … but …
Are you citing issues with BA specifically and via experience or just presenting an a general notion and BA just happened to be in the write up?
Unfortunately, without naming names, the pricing/brand name factor cuts both ways. A label or dollar figure does not inherently make something better.
Don't disagree on any particular point … but …
Are you citing issues with BA specifically and via experience or just presenting an a general notion and BA just happened to be in the write up?
Unfortunately, without naming names, the pricing/brand name factor cuts both ways. A label or dollar figure does not inherently make something better.
The whole names and dollar signs thing is certainly true at times. A perfect example is SMOS Arms and Noveske. A Noveske branded Gen 3 receiver set is ~$600, the same set from SMOS Arms, with a different logo (and minus a forward assist...) is $400 at SMOS. Identical except for the brand name.
Also, as a side note, SMOS is top notch. Great stuff.
californiasushi
02-17-16, 19:47
But an SPR's entire role is to shoot very far, very accurately. The most important aspect of that is the barrel, followed extremely closely by the optic. Yet dudes will run out and buy the least expensive barrel they can find and throw a Nikon on top of it. :confused:
I thought SPRs were mostly for shooting dude-sized targets kinda far, like 600-800 yards. This doesn't necessarily require a great amount of accuracy. Shooting very accurately (like at small things) very far sounds like a job for a precision bolt gun no? I agree with your sentiment though, that it's silly to cheap out on the barrel when its literally the most important part of how well your gun will shoot, especially if you're spending so much money on other accessories.
I think it's a sum of the parts used honestly. If I had to choose between a $450 barrel with a mil spec trigger or a $200 barrel and say a $250 ssa-e, I think I'd pick the latter. That's assuming the same optic is used and both are fed good ammo. Everyone is quick to point out, barrels are consumable parts. Wear out the cheaper one while saving for a better replacement.
Trigger time is better than the wait of saving for parts. I know what everyone's answer would be if the question was, "Should I go ahead and buy a 6920, aimpoint pro, and $1100 worth of training ammo or just save up for an sr-15 and a T2 micro?" As long as you don't say BA barrels out shoot Kreiger or a 6920 is a more refined, innovative carbine than an sr-15 who can argue your decision?
I think it's a sum of the parts used honestly. If I had to choose between a $450 barrel with a mil spec trigger or a $200 barrel and say a $250 ssa-e, I think I'd pick the latter. That's assuming the same optic is used and both are fed good ammo. Everyone is quick to point out, barrels are consumable parts. Wear out the cheaper one while saving for a better replacement.
Trigger time is better than the wait of saving for parts. I know what everyone's answer would be if the question was, "Should I go ahead and buy a 6920, aimpoint pro, and $1100 worth of training ammo or just save up for an sr-15 and a T2 micro?" As long as you don't say BA barrels out shoot Kreiger or a 6920 is a more refined, innovative carbine than an sr-15 who can argue your decision?
Spot on. And like I've said, I don't expect Kreiger or Douglas accuracy out of a BA SPR barrel. And, as you also stated, if I decide later down the road I want to upgrade the barrel, I certainly can. I think this is a good starting point that is within my budget.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?112897-Precision-AR-Comparison-Budget-vs-Premium
Good read for anyone making the same choice. Shame the op never followed up.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?112897-Precision-AR-Comparison-Budget-vs-Premium
Good read for anyone making the same choice. Shame the op never followed up.
Dang. Would've been great to see a follow up.
Fatorangecat
02-17-16, 21:41
I get that you have a budget and the $200 difference between a BA barrel and a Krieger is a lot of money but a WOA barrel is $265. You seem to have made your mind up about the BA barrel already but you really should consider spending another $85 for a WOA.
I get that you have a budget and the $200 difference between a BA barrel and a Krieger is a lot of money but a WOA barrel is $265. You seem to have made your mind up about the BA barrel already but you really should consider spending another $85 for a WOA.
I certainly haven't decided yet. I'm strongly considering a WOA still, or possibly a Wilson Combat. I'm assuming you have a WOA? If so, where did you pick it up?
I have a BA hanson barrel on my 300 BLK sbr. I was all set to go Noveske but when I saw the BA on sale I figured it was worth a shot and if I didn't like it then I would get the Noveske. I had what I thought was an issue with my BA barrel. Clint at BA was more than helpful and offered to troubleshoot it for me. Long story short I sent the barrel back they tested it and it worked fine for them. Clint sent me a new barrel anyway. So they do have excellent customer support. No issues with the new barrel. Have not shot it at 100 yards for groups being that its an 8.3" sbr.
You can get an 18" rifle length barrel by Criterion (started out as a division of Krieger) for $270 at Brownells. They have an HBAR and a Hybrid contour. Both are rifle length gas.
Fatorangecat
02-19-16, 11:06
I have an 18" WOA and it outshoots me. I generally shoot .75-1.25moa 5 shot groups at 100 yards with factory Black Hills 77gr. If I really focus and do my part I can shoot sub .5moa with the best I have ever done being a .38moa group. The .38moa group being in no way representative or typical but the barrel is outstanding and without doubt I am the limiting factor. They are in stock at Brownells for $269.
I have an 18" WOA and it outshoots me. I generally shoot .75-1.25moa 5 shot groups at 100 yards with factory Black Hills 77gr. If I really focus and do my part I can shoot sub .5moa with the best I have ever done being a .38moa group. The .38moa group being in no way representative or typical but the barrel is outstanding and without doubt I am the limiting factor. They are in stock at Brownells for $269.
The reality is that your ammo is probably the limiting factor. Its been my experience that factory ammo will generally hover right around 1 MOA in an otherwise very accurate rifle. To consistently get under 3/4 MOA with an AR15 platform you need to handload.
A lot of guys get wrapped in the "do my part" nonsense. You'll never know how accurate your rifle can be until you directly control component of the equation, and ammo is a HUGE part.
Fatorangecat
02-19-16, 14:36
The reality is that your ammo is probably the limiting factor. Its been my experience that factory ammo will generally hover right around 1 MOA in an otherwise very accurate rifle. To consistently get under 3/4 MOA with an AR15 platform you need to handload.
A lot of guys get wrapped in the "do my part" nonsense. You'll never know how accurate your rifle can be until you directly control component of the equation, and ammo is a HUGE part.
I have spent a lot of time behind a bolt gun the last few years and I understand I really need to start reloading to push beyond some barriers. I have a couple young kids and time is a limiting factor. The time spent pulling the handle on a reloader would cut into the time I spend shooting.
When I say "do my part" it's because I know when I ruined a good shot with bad fundamentals. The point I'm trying to make is that $80 will step the OP up to what I consider a fine barrel.
I have an 18" WOA and it outshoots me. I generally shoot .75-1.25moa 5 shot groups at 100 yards with factory Black Hills 77gr. If I really focus and do my part I can shoot sub .5moa with the best I have ever done being a .38moa group. The .38moa group being in no way representative or typical but the barrel is outstanding and without doubt I am the limiting factor. They are in stock at Brownells for $269.
Thanks for the detailed input! I'm strongly considering a WOA barrel as well. This is certainly helping me lean that way.
Another vote for White Oak. They have a proven track record for many years. Though in another caliber, mine is a tack driver.
carbine357
02-21-16, 18:13
I have a white oak. great bbl at 1/7. uses 75 gr tap and cant do any better.
NOTE: did not like 62 gr t.a.p. don't know why. I had real good guys on the gun and 2" was the best we could do
75 gr. and a s&b 1x4 down to .56 at 100 yds off a rest. not me cant do it due to eyes but others could.
good luck
carbine357
Just want some opinions here:
I'm about to buy a barrel for my "SPR-ish" build. 18" rifle length. I'm eyeing the Ballistic Advantage SPR barrel so far. Heard good things about BA and like the price. Would like to keep the barrel in the $200-250 range. Additionally, I don't know what muzzle device to go with. Definitely don't need the OPS inc device, as I won't be using a suppressor. I'm kind of thinking something along the lines of a flash suppressor may be best? Not really sure.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Have been down this road. My fave is the Green Mountain 18" stainless, rifle-length gas system, fluted barrel; smooth, sub-MOA performance, gorgeous look. Consider the VG6 Precision "Epsilon" muzzle device: almost no recoil or muzzle rise with the 18," and decent flash control. Good luck. ;)
Eurodriver
02-22-16, 09:26
Do any of you guys have results from shooting these barrels for groups beyond 300 yards?
Do any of you guys have results from shooting these barrels for groups beyond 300 yards?
Was kind of wondering the same thing. The 100 yard group results are good and all, but I do plan to shoot it to at least 3-400 yards, hopefully further. (I don't currently even have a range or place to go past 300. Might be asking the neighbors if I can setup in their field LOL)
Eurodriver
02-22-16, 09:45
Was kind of wondering the same thing. The 100 yard group results are good and all, but I do plan to shoot it to at least 3-400 yards, hopefully further. (I don't currently even have a range or place to go past 300. Might be asking the neighbors if I can setup in their field LOL)
Precisely. It just seems kind of misleading to say your rifle is 1/2 MOA without posting the distance.
If you're shooting 1/2 MOA at 800 yards I want more details on your build, but almost any quality SS barreled AR will shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Add to the fact that most people are using 3 shot cherry picked groups as "1/2 MOA" and it becomes almost meaningless.
We should do an M4C competition. 10 rounds, 300 yards, 3" or less. Hmm...
Precisely. It just seems kind of misleading to say your rifle is 1/2 MOA without posting the distance.
If you're shooting 1/2 MOA at 800 yards I want more details on your build, but almost any quality SS barreled AR will shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards. Add to the fact that most people are using 3 shot cherry picked groups as "1/2 MOA" and it becomes almost meaningless.
We should do an M4C competition. 10 rounds, 300 yards, 3" or less. Hmm...
Even the $180 BA barrel is guaranteed sub-MOA, so, really, I would be a little surprised if just about any halfway decent barrel couldn't match that.
I like what you've posted about this build so far; what are your thoughts on an optic? I've never had a "longer range" rifle. All 16" or 14.5" ones that I use more for fun and drills. Most I've had optic wise is a 1-6. I've been looking at the Trijicon AccuPower scopes. Possibly the 3-9 or 2.5-10?
Primus Pilum
02-22-16, 11:25
Not trying to be argumentative, but doesn't the "real" spr use a button rifled Douglas blank? Stress relieving is done by the barrel maker if I'm not mistaken, not the shop that chambers it. While cut rifling does seem to hold peak accuracy longer, there isn't any denying that a properly made button rifled barrel can hold its own. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Stress relieving is never consistent with button rifling, hence why cut rifling tends to be more consistent and the top barrel makers in the world, use cut rifling. The actual process of button rifling imparts uneven stress and many times the stress relieving does not do its job. There are plenty of good button rifled barrels out there, many which hold records, but I'm not willing to play the lottery to save $50 or $100.
OP. Order a Krieger or Barltien from the factory. If money is an issue, WOA or Lija. CLE barrels are not worth the money and those are the only 4 I would drop the coin on. Noveske is highly overrated and their products are shit now that John died.
Primus Pilum
02-22-16, 11:28
I thought SPRs were mostly for shooting dude-sized targets kinda far, like 600-800 yards. This doesn't necessarily require a great amount of accuracy. Shooting very accurately (like at small things) very far sounds like a job for a precision bolt gun no? I agree with your sentiment though, that it's silly to cheap out on the barrel when its literally the most important part of how well your gun will shoot, especially if you're spending so much money on other accessories.
SPR was way to get the most out the 5.56 round while staying light and cheap (development costs) with a base rifle already in the system. 600yards IS far for 5.56 and win plays hell on the smaller BC bullets. Getting every bit of accuracy out of them is going to increase the hit probability at range.
A 18lb 7.62 bolt gun and a 12lb semi auto 5.56 are apples to oranges. Different applications and one is much more versatile than the other.
Primus Pilum
02-22-16, 11:44
Even the $180 BA barrel is guaranteed sub-MOA, so, really, I would be a little surprised if just about any halfway decent barrel couldn't match that.
I like what you've posted about this build so far; what are your thoughts on an optic? I've never had a "longer range" rifle. All 16" or 14.5" ones that I use more for fun and drills. Most I've had optic wise is a 1-6. I've been looking at the Trijicon AccuPower scopes. Possibly the 3-9 or 2.5-10?
Vortex guarantees their Chinese and Philippine optics which both have astronomical failure rates. It doesn't make a difference if you are out in the field and your shit breaks or you miss your shot because of faulty equipment.
Furthermore, most people who have played the barrel lottery have not gotten good results when trying to get a manufacture to make good. Had a bad barrel from Larue on a OBR. Would not groups 5 shots under 1.5MOA with about 6 different brands of match ammo. Known shooter, optics & mounts were swaped out, basically everything done to diagnose the problem. Called Larue and they reluctantly took it back after bitching about how I couldn't shoot (funny right?). They have it for a few weeks and then send it back without a phone call. Included 1 cherry picked 3 shot group with unnamed ammo that was about .85 and said there is nothing wrong with it. I asked them specifically to shoot some 5 shot groups and let me know what brand they were using. They know it was a shitty barrel, but refused to honor their guarantee. They refused and I will not buy a Larue rifle to this day. Sold that piece of shit OBR and bought a KAC ECR that prints 5 shot sub moa groups with ease.
Moral of the story, a guarantee is only a small part of the story. Buy shit that works right from the beginning, and your chance of needing to use a guarantee goes way down.
Fatorangecat
02-22-16, 13:49
[QUOTE=EO3;2272134]Even the $180 BA barrel is guaranteed sub-MOA, so, really, I would be a little surprised if just about any halfway decent barrel couldn't match that.
Like was stated elsewhere in the thread there is a difference between 3 shot and consistent 5 shot sub MOA groups. I would be leery of any $180 barrel with a sub MOA guarantee. People spend a lot of money building sub MOA semi autos. Head over to the Hide and check out the MOA challenge. You would be surprised how hard it is to shoot 5-5shot sub MOA groups in a row. Cherry picking a couple groups from a day at the range is not representative.
[QUOTE=EO3;2272134]Even the $180 BA barrel is guaranteed sub-MOA, so, really, I would be a little surprised if just about any halfway decent barrel couldn't match that.
Like was stated elsewhere in the thread there is a difference between 3 shot and consistent 5 shot sub MOA groups. I would be leery of any $180 barrel with a sub MOA guarantee. People spend a lot of money building sub MOA semi autos. Head over to the Hide and check out the MOA challenge. You would be surprised how hard it is to shoot 5-5shot sub MOA groups in a row. Cherry picking a couple groups from a day at the range is not representative.
At what point does that start to put more onus on the shooter as opposed to the rifle? Give a seasoned competition shooter a good rifle and he can shoot 10-5 shot groups sub MOA. Whereas a weekend warrior with the same rifle may be only able to get 3 groups out of 5 without a flier. To me those results are a test of the shooter/rifle combo. If someone fails that challenge with their rifle that does not necessarily prove the rifle is not capable.
I guess what I am saying is that more rounds you shoot the more you are introducing human error as a possibility.
Fatorangecat
02-22-16, 15:00
I don't disagree with that at all. I can ring steel at 1000 with a Remington SPS and a Vortex, I would still rather have and shoot better with a match barrel and a Nightforce. The only point I'm trying to make is the WOA barrel at $95 more is a proven precision barrel. Buy as much barrel and as much optic as you can. I don't know why we are even debating this.
On the optic question you have to figure out what you are trying to do with the rifle. The military SPR focuses more on precision shots to around 300 yds vs. multiple targets (overwatch, light sniping, DMR etc.). The focus would be on wide FOV and clarity of optics vs. a ton of magnification (2.5-10x44 is a popular variation). You have enough optical power to go to 1000yds technically speaking, but typically the guns weren't employed that way. If you are solely punching tiny groups on paper or pushing the limits of the round you can go as high as you want magnification wise and give yourself an advantage..
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