View Full Version : Hammer pin walking out on Geissele SSA.
I purchased an Aero Precision lower from a gunsmith with a Geissele SSA trigger already installed. I received the lower on Friday and was running some snap caps through it Saturday and the hammer pin came half way out. I could push it back in by hand and now it feels real loose. It moves on both sides if I press on it easily. The trigger pin is fine and tight. If someone could take a look at these pics and see if there is anything wrong I would appreciate it. Sorry about the quality of the last two pics.
http://i.imgur.com/5ijGFA1.jpg (http://imgur.com/5ijGFA1)
http://i.imgur.com/rIA6vXC.jpg (http://imgur.com/rIA6vXC)
http://i.imgur.com/QL03cRY.jpg (http://imgur.com/QL03cRY)
Does the hammer pin have a recessed relief ring all the way around it on at least one side?
Like this:
https://geissele.com/super-semi-automatic-ssa-parts-kit.html
They may have the pins swapped. The hammer pin must have the notch in the center. Hammer gas a spring in center to keep pin from migrating.
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Sorry, Replied to wrong person but yes we switched the pins to make sure that was not the problem.
Yes, The pins look like the one in the picture.
Check the hammer for the "J" spring.....
Yes, my pins look like the ones in the picture.
Check the hammer for the "J" spring.....
That's the next item I would check.
Thanks for the reply, I will check it tonight.
Here is a side pic of the lower if it helps any.
http://i.imgur.com/HiFDhzH.jpg (http://imgur.com/HiFDhzH)
Here is a side pic of the lower if it helps any.
Nope, the pic of the lower doesn't help. You need to pull the hammer out of the lower, then check if the "J" spring is in it's place. Take one of your pins and put it through the pin hole in the hammer. If it slides all the way through without any resistance, the J spring is bent or missing.
ETA: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?133403-J-springs-missing
Thank you for the reply. I will check on this tonight.
I can't quite tell from your lower pic, but at least one of those pins looks flat on the end. All three of my Geissele triggers (SAA and two SSA-E) have pins which have a dimple on the end.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160215/b099d759bfc09e47f07a69f958e6545e.jpg
Thanks for the reply, I agree one the trigger pin looks flat but the hammer looks dimpled. I will check into this and post more pics later.
Yeah your parts look different. I don't have a SSA in front of me but pins and springs look a bit different. Should check lot markings on trigger and hammer
Thanks, the trigger has the G on it. What should I look for on the hammer?
The hammer will be clearly marked. On a side note, your pics are kind of bad, but it looks to me like the hammer spring is installed wrong.
https://d3cfki0l5o2ps6.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1200x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/g/2/g2s_1.jpg
Hammer and trigger pins are identical in MILSPEC triggers and my Geissele triggers just for this reason.
They may have the pins swapped. The hammer pin must have the notch in the center. Hammer gas a spring in center to keep pin from migrating.
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I will try to get some better pics up tonight. Thanks for the reply.
They appear to be dimpled.
http://i.imgur.com/rVuXe5S.jpg
Those look flatter than my Geissele pins...
They do look different. Here is better view of inside.
http://i.imgur.com/asllhkz.jpg
Those look flatter than my Geissele pins...
Guy from Geissele saw my post on ar15.com and said my pins did not look like theirs and to call customer service and they would fix me up. Thanks for your help.
titsonritz
02-15-16, 19:46
They do look different. Here is better view of inside.
http://i.imgur.com/asllhkz.jpg
The hammer tail where it contacts the disconnector look different than mine, my SSA does not have that groove. It might help if you pull out your FCG and take some photos outside of the receiver.
Check the hammer for the "J" spring.....
I called the gunsmith who installed it and he said he didn't put the j spring in because he figured I would use kns pins like he does. He is sending me the j spring and all the original packaging tomorrow.
You need to remove the FCG. The "J" spring is not a removable item. If he is saying that then you either have a fugazi or you have a G2S which does not have a "J" spring and uses a retainer clip.
I called the gunsmith who installed it and he said he didn't put the j spring in because he figured I would use kns pins like he does. He is sending me the j spring and all the original packaging tomorrow.
I 'll take it out in the morning and post pics.
I called the gunsmith who installed it and he said he didn't put the j spring in because he figured I would use kns pins like he does. He is sending me the j spring and all the original packaging tomorrow.
I think you are now in the market for a new gunsmith.
I think you are now in the market for a new gunsmith.
He's a young guy just starting out. I'm trying to be patient with him and hope he makes everything right.
titsonritz
02-15-16, 21:33
You need to remove the FCG. The "J" spring is not a removable item. If he is saying that then you either have a fugazi or you have a G2S which does not have a "J" spring and uses a retainer clip.
That's what I'm thinking.
He's a young guy just starting out. I'm trying to be patient with him and hope he makes everything right.
For him to make an assumption like that without talking to you about it is just piss poor. Do yourself a favor and cut this guy loose ASAP.
titsonritz
02-15-16, 21:57
I called the gunsmith who installed it and he said he didn't put the j spring in because he figured I would use kns pins like he does. He is sending me the j spring and all the original packaging tomorrow.
You like Bill Geissele advises against doing? :no:
You like Bill Geissele advises against doing? :no:
No that's why I got on here and didn't just order a set of kns pins like he told me to. I had researched and knew kns pins weren't supposed to be used with geissele. I want this to be installed correctly by geissele instructions.
No that's why I got on here and didn't just order a set of kns pins like he told me to. I had researched and knew kns pins weren't supposed to be used with geissele. I want this to be installed correctly by geissele instructions.
Well, you're doing the right thing trying to make it right. However, this guy is making some serious rookie mistakes and making choices without consulting you. He installed the hammer spring backwards.....
jackblack73
02-15-16, 23:05
Something else is going on, imo. I don't think that spring is that easily removable. I don't see why someone would take the time to remove it even if he believed someone was going to use KNS pins.
Well, you're doing the right thing trying to make it right. However, this guy is making some serious rookie mistakes and making choices without consulting you. He installed the hammer spring backwards.....
Do you think he is trying to pass off a g2s as a ssa?
titsonritz
02-15-16, 23:44
Something else is going on, imo. I don't think that spring is that easily removable. I don't see why someone would take the time to remove it even if he believed someone was going to use KNS pins.
I'm betting it is the G2S and he didn't install the retainer clip. No one in their right mind would remove the SSA J-spring.
Do you think he is trying to pass off a g2s as a ssa?
Did he say it was an SSA or Geissele and you inferred SSA?
I'm betting it is the G2S and he didn't install the retainer clip. No one in their right mind would remove the SSA J-spring.
Did he say it was an SSA or Geissele and you inferred SSA?
I called him tonight and he assured me it's an ssa and that's what he advertised it as.
jackblack73
02-16-16, 00:52
Do you think he is trying to pass off a g2s as a ssa?
That was my thought. Install a G2S and charge an SSA price.
titsonritz
02-16-16, 01:30
I called him tonight and he assured me it's an ssa and that's what he advertised it as.
It will be pretty easy to confirm when you pull it out.
Right now we are all simply spinning our wheels until you pull it out. There are too many "what ifs" and inconsistencies with this. The fact that he is claiming to have removed the "J" spring is a major red flag as it is not particularly easy and serves a purpose. The advice of using KNS is also suspect. In all I would get someone competent to look everything over and avoid any future dealings with him at all costs.
I called him tonight and he assured me it's an ssa and that's what he advertised it as.
"The fact that he is claiming to have removed the "J" spring is a major red flag as it is not particularly easy and serves a purpose"
Correct me if I am wrong IG. Once removed there is no way to unremove it.
"The fact that he is claiming to have removed the "J" spring is a major red flag as it is not particularly easy and serves a purpose"
Correct me if I am wrong IG. Once removed there is no way to unremove it.
Depends....
I just got back from the gun shop and he took it apart there. It appears I have been sold a G2S advertised as a SSA. Here are some pics if anyone can confirm it for me. He forgot to install the c clamp also if it is a G2S.
http://i.imgur.com/5nk6uWt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZSTugKn.jpg
Definitely a G2S. The G2S is the only Geissele trigger that has the front most area of the trigger recessed. Other markings match the G2S as well. Their website has pretty clear pictures. https://geissele.com/triggers.html
It's also 55 bucks cheaper than the SSA.
37787
edited: The super Tricon also has the recessed area, but the OP's trigger doesn't match in other ways.
Definitely a G2S. The G2S is the only Geissele trigger that has the front most area of the trigger recessed. Other markings match the G2S as well. Their website has pretty clear pictures. https://geissele.com/triggers.html
It's also 55 bucks cheaper than the SSA.
Thanks,
I guess I need to contact the gunsmith and see about a $55 refund.
If it takes a C clip, it's a G2S. If it were an SSA it should say so on the side of the trigger. My SSA-E is laser printed as such on the side of the trigger just below the disconnector.
Averageman
02-16-16, 11:04
If he burned you on the price for a lesser trigger that was pretty stupid on his part.
Integrity is a lot like virginity, once you lose it, you aint getting it back.
If it takes a C clip, it's a G2S. If it were an SSA it should say so on the side of the trigger. My SSA-E is laser printed as such on the side of the trigger just below the disconnector.
It looks like it takes the C clip which he didn't install and is supposed to be sending. I requested a $50 refund also.
If he burned you on the price for a lesser trigger that was pretty stupid on his part.
Integrity is a lot like virginity, once you lose it, you aint getting it back.
When I talked to him on the phone he assured me it was an SSA and that he was trying to build his name up in the gun community and didn't want any negative reviews so it puzzles me a little as why he would try to pull this off.
When I talked to him on the phone he assured me it was an SSA and that he was trying to build his name up in the gun community and didn't want any negative reviews so it puzzles me a little as why he would try to pull this off.
That is one heck of a bad way to build up your reputation!
masenomics
02-16-16, 11:15
That's definitely a G2S, looks exactly like the two I have, you can see the cut for the clip where the pin comes through the hammer in your photos.
That's definitely a G2S, looks exactly like the two I have, you can see the cut for the clip where the pin comes through the hammer in your photos.
How do like the G2S? Any trouble with it?
The FCG on an AR is a simple task. Not only did he do it incorrectly, but he also misled you by stating it was something that it wasn't and over-charged you. I have a hard time believing it was an honest mistake. Personally, I would cut ties with this gunsmith after he makes it right...if he does.
masenomics
02-16-16, 11:24
How do like the G2S? Any trouble with it?
I really enjoy them over mil spec triggers, only geissele triggers I own so I can't compare to the ssa or ssa-e, but I have them both properly installed in Aero precision lowers and haven't had a single problem with them including no walking of the trigger/hammer pins.
Also let me know if you don't happen to receive the clip from the "gunsmith" as I'm pretty sure I have an extra clip and instructions to install the trigger if you need them.
The FCG on an AR is a simple task. Not only did he do it incorrectly, but he also misled you by stating it was something that it wasn't and over-charged you. I have a hard time believing it was an honest mistake. Personally, I would cut ties with this gunsmith after he makes it right...if he does.
I will take your advice and cut ties with him. Been to many problems for the price I paid for the lower. He is supposed to be sending the c clips but has not responded to my request for a $50 refund.
I really enjoy them over mil spec triggers, only geissele triggers I own so I can't compare to the ssa or ssa-e, but I have them both properly installed in Aero precision lowers and haven't had a single problem with them including no walking of the trigger/hammer pins.
Also let me know if you don't happen to receive the clip from the "gunsmith" as I'm pretty sure I have an extra clip and instructions to install the trigger if you need them.
Thanks for the reply, I will keep the G2S I liked the feel of it but he needs to refund the price difference. Thanks for the offer for the clip and instructions I might have to take you up on that offer if he doesn't come through.
...but it looks to me like the hammer spring is installed wrong.
That's what I thought too. It appeared in the first pic that the loop of the hammer spring is in front of the hammer, not behind.
ETA... I don't know maybe not. Hard to tell its position on my phone.
Averageman
02-16-16, 12:24
When I talked to him on the phone he assured me it was an SSA and that he was trying to build his name up in the gun community and didn't want any negative reviews so it puzzles me a little as why he would try to pull this off.
I believe the trigger you currently have installed was on sale for a screaming deal at Brownells during the Holidays.
The only Legit reason I could possibly see for such a mix up would be to have more than one lower on the bench at the same time and both getting a Geisselle trigger upgrade, but even then your trigger was installed incorrectly.
I dunno, I deal with stoooopid enough at work, I don't need it when I come home or go shooting. I would really consider doing all of your own work on your guns yourself as much as possible and farming out the machine work stuff to someone with a clear good rep and a trail of satisfied customers.
Sorry this happened to you.
I believe the trigger you currently have installed was on sale for a screaming deal at Brownells during the Holidays.
The only Legit reason I could possibly see for such a mix up would be to have more than one lower on the bench at the same time and both getting a Geisselle trigger upgrade, but even then your trigger was installed incorrectly.
I dunno, I deal with stoooopid enough at work, I don't need it when I come home or go shooting. I would really consider doing all of your own work on your guns yourself as much as possible and farming out the machine work stuff to someone with a clear good rep and a trail of satisfied customers.
Sorry this happened to you.
Thanks for the reply. I am trying to stay positive and hope he works this out but he has yet to contact me back.
I would verify with Geissele exactly which trigger he gave you, not because I don't believe the people on this board but just to have ammunition to use the next time he tries to assure you it's an SSA when we all know it's not.
that's a g2s allright. aside from the way it maintains the hammer pin and some QC checks, its pretty much the same as a SSA.
as others have stated, never do business with him again
I would verify with Geissele exactly which trigger he gave you, not because I don't believe the people on this board but just to have ammunition to use the next time he tries to assure you it's an SSA when we all know it's not.
He just texted me and is refunding me $50 and sending the c clips. It is a G2S.
TexasAggie2005
02-16-16, 13:39
He just texted me and is refunding me $50 and sending the c clips. It is a G2S.
Wow. Had he installed it correctly, you probably wouldn't have even noticed the fraud and gone on to sing that 'smith's praises.
Wow. Had he installed it correctly, you probably wouldn't have even noticed the fraud and gone on to sing that 'smith's praises.
You are right. I want to thank everyone on here for their help in getting this straightened up. I appreciate it and all the advice.
That's how it appeared in the pics to me. But, pics can be deceiving just like the man on the grassy knoll.
That's what I thought too. It appeared in the first pic that the loop of the hammer spring is in front of the hammer, not behind.
ETA... I don't know maybe not. Hard to tell its position on my phone.
The good news is you know to never do business with him again, and you still have a great trigger. I own both ssa and g2s triggers and if I didn't know which one was which, I would not be able to tell the difference
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titsonritz
02-16-16, 15:35
I just got back from the gun shop and he took it apart there. It appears I have been sold a G2S advertised as a SSA. Here are some pics if anyone can confirm it for me. He forgot to install the c clamp also if it is a G2S.
http://i.imgur.com/5nk6uWt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZSTugKn.jpg
Yep obviously a G2S, no laser marking, the hammer pin sleeve and 3 groove instead of 2 groove pins. You need a new dude to deal with. I am a rookie and would not have this "mistake".
Yep obviously a G2S, no laser marking, the hammer pin sleeve and 3 groove instead of 2 groove pins. You need a new dude to deal with. I am a rookie and would not have this "mistake".
Yes, Geissele confirmed it was definitely a G2S. Gunsmith is refunding me $50 and offered me $50 off if I want him to do any work for me in the future.
I called the gunsmith who installed it and he said he didn't put the j spring in because he figured I would use kns pins like he does. He is sending me the j spring and all the original packaging tomorrow.
So it turns this is a f---ing LIE! Screw his $50 and a clip offer. Get all your money back and get an SSA like you wanted. It doesn't take a rocket mechanic to install a trigger. I have a pet monkey that can do it.
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Install Kns anti rotation pins,problem solved
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If you read the thread, OP wants the trigger installed per Geissele's recommendation of NOT using KNS pins.
Install Kns anti rotation pins,problem solved
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You are not supposed to use kns pins with geissele triggers.
If you read the thread, OP wants the trigger installed per Geissele's recommendation of NOT using KNS pins.
I did read the thread and didn't see that must have missed it no need to be a dick
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You are not supposed to use kns pins with geissele triggers.
Says who? Geissele says they do not recommend using other hammer pins but that's a "recommendation"
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Not problem solved. It's wrong and needs to be addressed. This is why substandard companies and local butchers are still in operation. No one holds them accountable.
Install Kns anti rotation pins,problem solved
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No one is being a dick. He pointed out what you failed to see during your haste.
I did read the thread and didn't see that must have missed it no need to be a dick
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Leaveammoforme
02-16-16, 18:04
Says who?Geissele says they do not recommend using other hammer pins but that's a "recommendation"
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Everybody.
KNS pins are not a fix, they're bling. If pins are walking, part(s) are out of spec or assembled incorrectly.
Says who? Geissele says they do not recommend using other hammer pins but that's a "recommendation"
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http://i.imgur.com/ul9ebI8.jpg
Says who? Geissele says they do not recommend using other hammer pins but that's a "recommendation"
Sent from my SM-G900R7 using Tapatalk
Why do you think the say that? To hear themselves talk? Using your logic I guess it would be OK to use a couple of pieces of coat hanger wire for the pins. Just bend them over to keep them in.
Not problem solved. It's wrong and needs to be addressed. This is why substandard companies and local butchers are still in operation. No one holds them accountable.
Right on, right on.
titsonritz
02-17-16, 00:46
Yes, Geissele confirmed it was definitely a G2S. Gunsmith is refunding me $50 and offered me $50 off if I want him to do any work for me in the future.
So the dude either lies about the parts he is uses or is too stupid to know the difference and chokes on one the most basic tasks on an AR, just about the only thing more simple is changing charging handles. I'd say "Fuk that where is my SSA?" The last thing I'd want from this clown is $50 off his "gunsmithing service", he'd probably end up costing you more that to uncluster his mess. Seriously I'd demand an SSA.
titsonritz
02-17-16, 01:07
Did you have him install any other "special" parts?
You should link this thread in the "Gunsmithing Hall of Shame" thread. Also when you are none dealing with this guy be sure to link his info so other can avoid him.
Gunsmith trying to rake a customer......
This never happens....ever...
IG's use of the word "butcher" couldn't be more accurate.
I'd return the parts for a full refund and run far away. I'd also put it out in your community what this gun plumber did- wonder how many others he has taken advantage of??
Rmplstlskn
02-19-16, 22:10
I too think you need to post publicly the company that attempted to rip you off. It would have worked if he wouldn't have installed it wrong and forgot to install the clip... There should be no mercy for shops like that...
As for the use KNS dude, he has less than 5 posts... I hope he learned his lesson on foot-n-mouth disease. LOL!
Rmpl
I too think you need to post publicly the company that attempted to rip you off. It would have worked if he wouldn't have installed it wrong and forgot to install the clip... There should be no mercy for shops like that...
As for the use KNS dude, he has less than 5 posts... I hope he learned his lesson on foot-n-mouth disease. LOL!
Rmpl
Some people have this thing called integrity and realise sometimes it's better to be the bigger person and not call someone or a bussiness out something tells me you could use a little of that ..as for me learning a lesson.im always learning anyway who says they've learned enough is a fool
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titsonritz
02-19-16, 22:38
Some people have this thing called integrity and realise sometimes it's better to be the bigger person and not call someone or a bussiness out <snip>
Please explain how integrity has anything to do with calling out someone for screwing their customers over.
Please explain how integrity has anything to do with calling out someone for screwing their customers over.
The very fact you need it explained says you don't have any
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titsonritz
02-19-16, 22:55
The very fact you need it explained says you don't have any
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Oh I see, so people should just take it up the ass when someone f***s them over got it. Great advice on the KNS pin too, got any more pearls of wisdom I can put in my "shit to ignore" file?
Oh I see, so people should just take it up the ass when someone f***s them over got it. Great advice on the KNS pin too, got any more pearls of wisdom I can put in my "shit to ignore" file?
Aww is you mad bro? the truth does that to bitches
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titsonritz
02-19-16, 23:05
Aww is you mad bro? the truth does that to bitches
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Nah, like I said your six posts have been properly filed, but you enjoy your time here because with your type of contributions it won't be long.
I'm pretty sure that integrity doesn't include letting others fall into the same trap you did.
What if this "gunsmith" screws over people who don't catch it-people who may use that rifle in harms way? Any because of his lack of integrity and knowledge , that system fails...... What if it failed while trying to defend you and your family?
Any other business dealing like this, and the Better business bureau would be all over this. In some states, it also fraud.
556BlackRifle
02-20-16, 02:15
Some people have this thing called integrity and realise sometimes it's better to be the bigger person and not call someone or a bussiness out something tells me you could use a little of that ..as for me learning a lesson.im always learning anyway who says they've learned enough is a fool
Sent from my SM-G900R7 using Tapatalk
You're not the gunsmith who butchered up this poor guy's trigger job are you? This so called gunsmith is the one who needs some integrity. Firstly he should trade out his defective butchered trigger for a brand new one. Secondly, he should offer a partial refund to the OP for screwing up. Then he should apologize. Why? Because it's the right thing to do - something someone with integrity would do.
jackblack73
02-20-16, 02:26
So does that mean that anyone that posts a truthful, negative review on Yelp lacks integrity? I don't understand that logic.
Aww is you mad bro? the truth does that to bitches
I've seen how this ends and, personally, I'm looking forward to the guest appearance of JSantoro...
I'm glad the OP was able to use this forum for its intended purpose. Knowledge.
You're not the gunsmith who butchered up this poor guy's trigger job are you?
Ha ha, I was thinking the same thing.
Just to keep this on topic, Vol fan, I'm not sure if you know this. But normally, you get 2 C clips in each G2S trigger package. You only install one, the other is an extra. I like the G2S trigger a lot. It is my go to trigger.
Joe Mamma
Just Prince
02-20-16, 07:41
I was wonder how this thread generated 10 pages. OP considering the errors that have been found I would watch the Brownells " How to build a AR15" to ensure nothing else is screwed up in the trigger.
This is a problem with many members of this generation. They expect to be accorded the same respect that it took earlier generations decades to build through their work and integrity, and they expect it from the day they start out in life. They look around and decide what they want to do without giving a thought to the efforts put in over years behind the scenes. It appears as if nobody is teaching kids today about character and actions more than words, defining other's perception.
Aside from social manners, I do not make it a habit of respecting people as they feel they should be; rather, they get what respect they earn. This Pisses off these self-entitled kids, and stuffed shirt buffoons alike. :)
Been working that way for centuries....
Somebody already saw to Captain Participation-Trophy McHip-HopLifestylist's inaugural infraction for his electing to evoke both Giant Douche AND Turd Sandwich in a single go.
Let's (...other than encouraging folks to continue to use Report Post to let us know when the self-entitled little prick elects to stomp on his own crank in golf cleats, again, as we all know he probably will...) please move on from that little moment in time.
Voodoochild
02-20-16, 09:34
Closing thread because people don't know how to act like adults which is pathetic.
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