View Full Version : Pope Says Trump is not a Christian
In response to Trumps plans to build a wall, the Pope says " ...a person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian."
That's from the man who lives here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbhJgvEUcAAp_-B.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cbg2VJuVAAASv75.jpg
I'm not a Trump supporter nor am i convinced of the value of a wall at the border vs other possible measures, but this is like HC and the ilk her who are in favor gun control while surrounded by armed men. The Vatican has its own bank (full of funds taken via genocide and other uplifting sources...) and a private army, via the Swiss.
Holy hypocrisy Bat Man! Trump response should have simply been "When the Pope removes his wall, we'll talk" and been done with it.
Moose-Knuckle
02-18-16, 16:54
In response to Trumps plans to build a wall, the Pope says " ...a person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not building bridges, is not Christian."
Will spot on, coming from a man who lives in a walled/fortress city lol.
I don't think the first non-European Pope is a Christian, but he is a globalist Marxist.
If either side wanted a fence, it would be there already. Republicans, Democrats, America, or Mexico.
The man who founded, owned, and ran the company I work for (fence manufacturer) was also heavily involved in Republican politics. He never supported a border fence and in fact, opposed it.
I understand what Trump is trying to do, but he's not getting a fence. The Pope needn't worry.
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Trump isn't getting a fence? I don't know about that.
Of the four constituencies you mentioned, I would agree that Americans are the least influential in American politics. However, many of them want this. They want their government to build it even while the Democrats, Republicans, and Mexican's don't.
It's not impossible if you grant that Trump is serious about it. He doesn't appear to be bought and paid for like everyone else.
Way I see it.
Pope doesn't like you = 5 bonus points.
First off, if you're not Catholic; does anything the pope says even matter?
Anything he says would be like an Imam or the Dalai Lama saying something. Good that he has an opinion but doesn't affect me.
Second, 'judge not lest ye be judged'
Third, is turning the American SW into East Berlin even a good idea?
Canadians come to and fro. Canadas land mass isn't the most hospitable past a certain point.
What IS the problem with Mexico?
I would sooner de-incentivize illegal migration and baby anchoring. Mexico is the answer to Mexico's problem. By decriminalizing drugs and reducing the profit for juntas and cartels; that would curb a lot of BS.
The Mexican government makes more money off corruption.
I would sooner Mexico be more like Canada South. With better education, with a better economy, and with an overall better attitude; Mexicans may not see the need to black market profit off the US.
That Red scourge of Leftism throughout Latin America hasn't died. A lot more capitalism and a lot more incentive for Anglophonicism could go a lot further than, again, turning the Southwest into East Berlin or the DMZ.
I mean, they aren't going away.
I don't think anyone has really thought that through beyond outsourcing to lower labor costs or hiring Julios at a parking lot to roof a house.
Or we could pull a Ukraine on Mexico....
Or cut them in.
Moose-Knuckle
02-18-16, 17:29
. . . is turning the American SW into East Berlin even a good idea?
The Berlin Wall was built to prevent Eastern bloc citizens from escaping the Marxist utopia, aka keeping people in. A security wall on our Southern border would be to help prevent people from entering. That and we wouldn't be shooting those who jumped said wall like the reds did.
If a nation does not have the right to defend or the horse sense to defend it's borders then what's the point of it's existence and why even bother with borders/passports/checkpoints?
Third, is turning the American SW into East Berlin even a good idea?
Berlin wall was built to keep it's population from escaping and the border guards targeted their own population.
Mexican border wall (imaginary) would be designed to keep invaders OUT and the invaders would be targeted.
US citizens as well as lawful immigrants from Mexico would still be free to travel back and forth at the designated check points.
Two very different things.
Even with a Ft. Knox level of security along the entire border, we would still bring in a ton of immigrants. From 2010 to 2013 there were about 1,030,000 legal immigrants from Mexico and South America. This amounts to hundreds of thousands of people every year.
That is never going to stop.
The problem is the additional hundreds of thousands who cross the border illegally, especially those who bring drugs, weapons and a capacity for violent crime. This is what we are trying to stop.
I'm clear on your traffic, Moose but...
But I really hope there's a better solution than a Checkpoint Carlos.
Border Security is important. Real important. But couldn't there be a way to cut down the illegality of Mexico without resorting to walls and blockades?
Does Mustafa need to see Mexico as a viable point of entry? Hell No.
Do Maria and Pablo need to be dinged for their own government's failures? To a point.
We could have a great relationship with Mexico but the Mexican government precludes that. If they prospered as a nation they wouldn't really want to live here unless they really wanted to fully and legally immigrate here.
ETA I still think decriminalizing and de-legitimizing the drug and weapons cartels would go pretty far.
And the diseases.
I mean aside from dope, disease, and gangsters; Mexico isn't so bad.
But withoutthe drug market there can't be slush funds, allocation of assets, ways to step on people, etc so....bleh
I'm clear on your traffic, Moose but...
But I really hope there's a better solution than a Checkpoint Carlos.
Border Security is important. Real important. But couldn't there be a way to cut down the illegality of Mexico without resorting to walls and blockades?
Does Mustafa need to see Mexico as a viable point of entry? Hell No.
Do Maria and Pablo need to be dinged for their own government's failures? To a point.
We could have a great relationship with Mexico but the Mexican government precludes that. If they prospered as a nation they wouldn't really want to live here unless they really wanted to fully and legally immigrate here.
ETA I still think decriminalizing and de-legitimizing the drug and weapons cartels would go pretty far.
And the diseases.
I mean aside from dope, disease, and gangsters; Mexico isn't so bad.
But withoutthe drug market there can't be slush funds, allocation of assets, ways to step on people, etc so....bleh
If it were me, I'd put a NSW school on the gulf near the border that practices amphibious landings and related exercises around the clock.
I'd put a SOCOM "desert warfare" training school at the most vulnerable point along the border.
I'd designate "empty / remote" areas of the border that are most vulnerable as ranges for aerial gunnery, bomb and missile targeting and other areas for artillery training. A couple IED qualification ranges also wouldn't be a bad idea.
And lastly I'd establish a "desert armor" warfare training area at a similar location.
When illegals, drug smugglers and other undesirables start to regularly run into seals, SF and similar groups conducting exercises things will change. This also adds a very valuable element to the training of our special forces community when dealing with unknowns.
When favorite crossing points and tunnels become target ranges for heavy bombers and attack helicopters things will change.
When illegal border jumpers run into hundreds of tanks conducting exercises, things will change.
We'd have to ED a lot of border ranches, or failing that be willing to provide them security given their location to a military training area.
If it were me, I'd put a NSW school on the gulf near the border that practices amphibious landings and related exercises around the clock.
I'd put a SOCOM "desert warfare" training school at the most vulnerable point along the border.
I'd designate "empty / remote" areas of the border that are most vulnerable as ranges for aerial gunnery, bomb and missile targeting and other areas for artillery training. A couple IED qualification ranges also wouldn't be a bad idea.
And lastly I'd establish a "desert armor" warfare training area at a similar location.
When illegals, drug smugglers and other undesirables start to regularly run into seals, SF and similar groups conducting exercises things will change. This also adds a very valuable element to the training of our special forces community when dealing with unknowns.
When favorite crossing points and tunnels become target ranges for heavy bombers and attack helicopters things will change.
When illegal border jumpers run into hundreds of tanks conducting exercises, things will change.
We'd have to ED a lot of border ranches, or failing that be willing to provide them security given their location to a military training area.
But but, someone could get a boo boo doing that, and we can't have it. It seems the dirty secret that's not so secret, they don't really want it to change. That's been made abundantly clear regardless of which party was in office.
I'd be happy if the pope fell off one of the vatican walls. Based on my conversations with our Catholic friends, it seems many(at least the ones I speak with), wouldn't mind either. I was very surprised by some of the vitriol expressed towards the pope by Catholics. The current pope seems to have pissed a lot of people off. Good thing is, his stupid, hypocritical diatribes have served to make him less and less influential.
the pope is some kind of evil/false profit kinda situation for sure part of the NWO or obama type radical left progressive type
as said the whole wall thing the money thing the child molesting problems and most Christians leaders know to not judge others as that is Gods job to do !
Averageman
02-18-16, 18:51
Until the Catholic Church totally empties its bank accounts, sells all of its properties and opens the doors to the Vatican City to help all of those poor and suffering Citizens of the World perhaps the Socialist Bastard should STFU?
I'd be happy if the pope fell off one of the vatican walls. Based on my conversations with our Catholic friends, it seems many(at least the ones I speak with), wouldn't mind either. I was very surprised by some of the vitriol expressed towards the pope by Catholics. The current pope seems to have pissed a lot of people off. Good thing is, his stupid, hypocritical diatribes have served to make him less and less influential.
That last Pope that actually amounted to anything or had any real relevance in the world was John Paul II due to his work with the Polish solidarity movement and his involvement keeping it from turning out like the Hungarian revolution.
Thousands of people are alive who would otherwise have been rolled on by Russian tanks.
I don't agree with many of his views on many other things, but he is the only Pope in recent history that has actually done anything significant and changed the lives of millions of people for the better. He was actually targeted by the Polish security service who conducted operations to harm or discredit the Pope.
The holy socialist speaks. Yawn I'm still waiting on the hypocrite to give all the Vatican's riches to the poor.
Yet another reason to vote for Trump. They seem to keep piling up.
PatrioticDisorder
02-18-16, 19:07
He might not realize it, by the Pope just sealed the deal for Trump. Everyone knows that the current Pope is a commie pinko.
The liberals are cringing. Why do you think they've backed off the public push for amnesty, etc? It's wildly unpopular. The pope comes along with his babble...ouch.
The Mexican government and the cartels are one in the same. These people are scum of the earth criminals and I want nothing to do with a friendly relationship that is financially beneficial to the Mexican government and cartel in any sense. This idea that terrorist type activity is the fault of poverty, and if we just lift their economy out of the gutter they will leave their evil ways....its a liberal globalist pipe dream. It's another angle on nation building. Their population doesn't want it, but the powers that be will gladly take any financial benefit and use it to impose thier will on others and on us. Until their country embraces a massive political purge, I see any beneficial relationship as funding terrorism and encouraging the same here at home. So thanks, but no thanks.
Averageman
02-18-16, 19:24
The liberals are cringing. Why do you think they've backed off the public push for amnesty, etc? It's wildly unpopular. The pope comes along with his babble...ouch.
The Mexican government and the cartels are one in the same. These people are scum of the earth criminals and I want nothing to do with a friendly relationship that is financially beneficial to the Mexican government and cartel in any sense. This idea that terrorist type activity is the fault of poverty, and if we just lift their economy out of the gutter they will leave their evil ways....its a liberal globalist pipe dream. It's another angle on nation building. Their population doesn't want it, but the poppers that be will gladly take any financial benefit and use it to impose thier will on others and on us. Until their country embraces a massive political purge, I see any beneficial relationship as funding terrorism and encouraging the same here at home. So thanks, but no thanks.
The best thing we could do for Mexico is refuse to be a relief valve for their corruption.
saw a post about the walls and this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_IV
that he had them reinforced to keep out the muslims ;) hahahaha kinda ironic
Well let's not confuse the Mexican people for their government.
I would and do hate to be judged by the actions and character of our current elected officials.
But more on point, it bears,repeating...religious figureheads are free to have their opinions and I ,and everyone else, am free to ignore those opinions.
The Pope is the breath of the beast.
Well let's not confuse the Mexican people for their government.
I don't. But it isn't the kidnap capital of the world because of their government. And I understand people who are fleeing violence and economic hardship, but there really is a limit to how many we can accommodate into this country without severe detrimental impacts. It has already happened, many peaceful towns and burbs across the country have been destroyed by an influx of Mexicans who weren't always the friendly "work ethic" variety.
I have zero objection to those who come here legally, especially those who come to make a better life and as a result improve this country with their presence. If they start a business, I'll gladly support them if they offer anything I need or use.
But I have no more tolerance for those who come here illegally than I do for any other criminal.
If either side wanted a fence, it would be there already. Republicans, Democrats, America, or Mexico.
The man who founded, owned, and ran the company I work for (fence manufacturer) was also heavily involved in Republican politics. He never supported a border fence and in fact, opposed it.
I understand what Trump is trying to do, but he's not getting a fence. The Pope needn't worry.
There is already a wall/fence over the most traveled areas.
And let's not forget the Pope's view of gun folks:
"TURIN, Italy — People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-christian-gun-makers-hypocrites-article-1.2268015
Funny, he does not seem to talk about Pedophilia, I guess that is a OK Christian thing in his mind.
Yeah, I was Catholic, then I came to my senses.
I'm a 3rd option guy.
If we could go back to gunning down Coyotes with a Border Patrol consisting of drunken posses with 45 Long Colts and Thompsons then shit would get sorted without getting too crazy.
But frumpy dykey female BPs asking obviously white dudes who are like whiter than the blonde girl from Clueless at BS checkpoints way away from the border what their citizenship is asinine and pointless.
Same with jailing BP guys shooting illegals who shot at them first.
You know, I don't have the answers. Only pointless optimism and pipe dreams.
They're gonna keep doing it and there's nothing I can do and my elected officials don't care what I think so there it is.
Man, Trump really has really put the fear of God into all the agents of Socialist subversion - the press, the Pope, the politicians (on all sides), Hollywood.
Trump is infinitely more Christian than the Muslim-In-Chief, yet I don't see the Holy Socialist saying anything about Shitstain Hussein.
AnthonyCumia
02-18-16, 23:56
Man, Trump really has really put the fear of God into all the agents of Socialist subversion - the press, the Pope, the politicians (on all sides), Hollywood.
Trump is infinitely more Christian than the Muslim-In-Chief, yet I don't see the Holy Socialist saying anything about Shitstain Hussein.
Yeah he is amazing.
brushy bill
02-19-16, 00:07
Way I see it.
Pope doesn't like you = 5 bonus points.
Maybe 10.
gunrunner505
02-19-16, 00:25
And let's not forget the Pope's view of gun folks:
"TURIN, Italy — People who manufacture weapons or invest in weapons industries are hypocrites if they call themselves Christian, Pope Francis said on Sunday"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-christian-gun-makers-hypocrites-article-1.2268015
So I guess we shouldn't mention the Vatican armed guards either.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
02-19-16, 00:40
I just wish there was a much discussion about WHY these people want to come here. Why are their countries shit holes? Why not fix that problem instead of just moving people around.
It's like Section 8 housing in reverse. Instead of concentrating people, it is dispersing them.
brushy bill
02-19-16, 00:49
deleted
Trump isn't getting a fence? I don't know about that.
Of the four constituencies you mentioned, I would agree that Americans are the least influential in American politics. However, many of them want this. They want their government to build it even while the Democrats, Republicans, and Mexican's don't.
It's not impossible if you grant that Trump is serious about it. He doesn't appear to be bought and paid for like everyone else.
"Virtual fence" maybe. Physical security barrier? No. Even some of the towns there don't want it.
I guess his love of imminent domain could come into play there. ;)
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There is already a wall/fence over the most traveled areas.
And yet children were walking across by the thousands not long ago.
Not talking about the virtual stuff to let thru the people they want thru. I'm talking about an actual security barrier.
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The liberals are cringing. Why do you think they've backed off the public push for amnesty, etc? It's wildly unpopular. The pope comes along with his babble...ouch.
The Mexican government and the cartels are one in the same. These people are scum of the earth criminals and I want nothing to do with a friendly relationship that is financially beneficial to the Mexican government and cartel in any sense. This idea that terrorist type activity is the fault of poverty, and if we just lift their economy out of the gutter they will leave their evil ways....its a liberal globalist pipe dream. It's another angle on nation building. Their population doesn't want it, but the powers that be will gladly take any financial benefit and use it to impose thier will on others and on us. Until their country embraces a massive political purge, I see any beneficial relationship as funding terrorism and encouraging the same here at home. So thanks, but no thanks.
I find it interesting how fixing all the worlds ills, whether it be poverty, global warming/climate change, terrorism, etc, only requires more power for them...and more of MY money.
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Moose-Knuckle
02-19-16, 04:20
I'm clear on your traffic, Moose but...
But I really hope there's a better solution than a Checkpoint Carlos.
Border security which equates into the survival of any nation state has to start with the native inhabitants will to do so. At present neither party wants this. José Angel Gutiérrez, a Marxist professor and Hispanic supremacist calls it the "browning of America". Essentially it's Cloward-Piven on roids to accomplish social engineering goals. The erosion of borders, languages, and cultures. The issue of border security is a multi facet problem that requires multiple solutions.
Border Security is important. Real important. But couldn't there be a way to cut down the illegality of Mexico without resorting to walls and blockades?
Absolutely.
One of the biggest things we need to do is end birthright citizenship and put a stop to birth tourism/migration. Secondly we need to put an end to providing tax payer funded "free" healthcare, education, food stamps, housing, et al. to all who make it across. Take away the freebies and you diminish the desire to be here.
Does Mustafa need to see Mexico as a viable point of entry? Hell No.
Mustafa need only apply for refugee status and he'll be given a free ride all the way. No need to sneak around the desert.
Do Maria and Pablo need to be dinged for their own government's failures? To a point.
We cannot afford Maria and Pablo any longer. If Maria and Pablo don't like their situation then they need to do something about via bringing about change to their homeland. Our national debt is at $19 trillion + and we're set for a 5% upswing this year thanks to Barry's last budget.
We could have a great relationship with Mexico but the Mexican government precludes that. If they prospered as a nation they wouldn't really want to live here unless they really wanted to fully and legally immigrate here.
We pump billions of dollars into MX on an annual basis just to keep them afloat. Projected national interest/security and all that as they border us.
ETA I still think decriminalizing and de-legitimizing the drug and weapons cartels would go pretty far.
That and or go Tom Clancy on their asses.
The best thing we could do for Mexico is refuse to be a relief valve for their corruption.
Sadly, that would first require us to address our own.
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Right along side this perpetually repeating pattern is another: all the worlds ills remain either unchanged or more often escalate in both frequency and intensity. You point out an important conclusion. When our elected officials double-down on stupid, in truth they are doubling down on the stupidity of the citzenry to give them power.
I find it interesting how fixing all the worlds ills, whether it be poverty, global warming/climate change, terrorism, etc, only requires more power for them...and more of MY money.
He might not realize it, by the Pope just sealed the deal for Trump. Everyone knows that the current Pope is a commie pinko.
My thoughts exactly.
The Pope just took Cruz and Rubio out of the game.
Funny how he overlooks Mexico's wall, the one on their Southern Border.
Those who are against the wall should visit a border ranch in Texas, those people are being robbed daily, and the "Pontiff" doesn't seem to care.
Sadly, that would first require us to address our own.
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Not near the level as Mexico's.
The cartels would not be this powerful had they worked with us in the late 70's/early 80's.
Which is why I yawn when they complain about Cartels getting weapons in via their unsecured northern border.
First off, if you're not Catholic; does anything the pope says even matter?
Anything he says would be like an Imam or the Dalai Lama saying something. Good that he has an opinion but doesn't affect me.
Second, 'judge not lest ye be judged'
Third, is turning the American SW into East Berlin even a good idea?
Canadians come to and fro. Canadas land mass isn't the most hospitable past a certain point.
What IS the problem with Mexico?
I would sooner de-incentivize illegal migration and baby anchoring. Mexico is the answer to Mexico's problem. By decriminalizing drugs and reducing the profit for juntas and cartels; that would curb a lot of BS.
The Mexican government makes more money off corruption.
I would sooner Mexico be more like Canada South. With better education, with a better economy, and with an overall better attitude; Mexicans may not see the need to black market profit off the US.
That Red scourge of Leftism throughout Latin America hasn't died. A lot more capitalism and a lot more incentive for Anglophonicism could go a lot further than, again, turning the Southwest into East Berlin or the DMZ.
I mean, they aren't going away.
I don't think anyone has really thought that through beyond outsourcing to lower labor costs or hiring Julios at a parking lot to roof a house.
Or we could pull a Ukraine on Mexico....
Or cut them in.
There are some critical differences between Mexico and Canada, and they're not necessarily about poverty. First, we've warred with Mexico, not Canada. Mexicans still believe parts of California and Texas rightly belong to Mexico. That gives them a false sense of entitlement.
Second, while Mexico's capitalism, Catholicism and family values are compatible with American values, their graft and corruption aren't. Further, outside the family they have a significant problem with "value of life". They're not generally as bad as some of the ME Salafists, but some of them are just as bad if not worse. With over 100,000 casualties in the cartel wars so far, they're living a genocide down there.
We should be rightly concerned about those elements of their society setting up shop North of the border. I think we do need a fence, but we need a lot more BP agents with a lot fewer restrictions and ROE's, along with more entry level work visas for VETTED immigrants to turn the tide. The only way to remove incentive for a Northward migration, would be to devalue the U.S. to Mexico's level. There's not much we can do to pull that entire country up by it's bootstraps from here. :(
There are some critical differences between Mexico and Canada, and they're not necessarily about poverty. First, we've warred with Mexico, not Canada. Mexicans still believe parts of California and Texas rightly belong to Mexico. That gives them a false sense of entitlement.
Second, while Mexico's capitalism, Catholicism and family values are compatible with American values, their graft and corruption aren't. Further, outside the family they have a significant problem with "value of life". They're not generally as bad as some of the ME Salafists, but some of them are just as bad if not worse. With over 100,000 casualties in the cartel wars so far, they're living a genocide down there.
We should be rightly concerned about those elements of their society setting up shop North of the border. I think we do need a fence, but we need a lot more BP agents with a lot fewer restrictions and ROE's, along with more entry level work visas for VETTED immigrants to turn the tide. The only way to remove incentive for a Northward migration, would be to devalue the U.S. to Mexico's level. There's not much we can do to pull that entire country up by it's bootstraps from here. :(
I understand what you meant, but we are technically 0-1 vs the Canadians.
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I just wish there was a much discussion about WHY these people want to come here. Why are their countries shit holes? Why not fix that problem instead of just moving people around.
It's like Section 8 housing in reverse. Instead of concentrating people, it is dispersing them.
You make an excellent point and I'm being dead serious here - It seems to me that Mexico would be an ideal place to actually DO what we attempted to do in Iraq. I'm sure it would be messy eradicating the Cartels, but I think we'd have a hell of a lot more long-term success.
Doing so would raise the standard of living for many people in both Nations.
Spend the money we've spent on our nation building elsewhere around the world closer to home and help the Mexicans make Mexico a success.
It would take breaking some eggs and getting our hands dirty, but wouldn't having a strong friend directly to the south make our Nation more secure.
I'm not an isolationist, but it occurs to me that between the North American and the South American continents we have absolutely everything we need.
Maybe a focus on moving southward and helping those nations lift themselves up during the next 100 years - not talking banana wars here - would make America stronger and more seure for our kids and grandkids.
brickboy240
02-19-16, 10:02
Very true.
The money spent on trying to re-build Iraq and Afghanistan would have been MUCH better spent on re-building Mexico.
Eradicating the cartels, removing the corrupt leaders and improving their infrastructure. Also, fixing the problems with their state-run oil company, Pemex.
There would be a much better chance of the changes actually "sticking" than in any part of the Middle East and we are closer to this place, so it would be easier and less expensive to keep an eye on the progress and gauge our success. It would also be easier and less expensive to fix any problems that crop up during the change cycle.
I also believe that we would not have had as many casualties along the way.
You make an excellent point and I'm being dead serious here - It seems to me that Mexico would be an ideal place to actually DO what we attempted to do in Iraq. I'm sure it would be messy eradicating the Cartels, but I think we'd have a hell of a lot more long-term success.
Doing so would raise the standard of living for many people in both Nations.
Spend the money we've spent on our nation building elsewhere around the world closer to home and help the Mexicans make Mexico a success.
It would take breaking some eggs and getting our hands dirty, but wouldn't having a strong friend directly to the south make our Nation more secure.
I'm not an isolationist, but it occurs to me that between the North American and the South American continents we have absolutely everything we need.
Maybe a focus on moving southward and helping those nations lift themselves up during the next 100 years - not talking banana wars here - would make America stronger and more seure for our kids and grandkids.
The cartels will simply move as they have before. People should note the relative success in Colombia has resulted in production, crime, cartels, etc moving to other locations in the region, including Mexico.* Until you address the demand side of the equation, there will be no "winning" that one. Economics 101, where there's demand supply will follow. Also, approx 50% of people coming over our border are not Mexicans. It's people from other failed states in the region, so that's a major issue to consider. Colombia may be a good model to follow in terms of US assistance as it's a much improved country compared to what it was, and is a work in progress.
The US has tinkered covertly and overtly south of the border for a long time with only our interests in mind mostly, and plenty of countries have not forgotten that reality. The fact is, the US is between a rock and a hard place with with CA/SA as we are damned if we do or don't at this point, but we are making some steady headway in many areas and that seems to be ignored and back door to more popular topics on the world stage.
I don't know what the answer is, but I do know most of the answers given are overly simplistic, will not address the core issues, and show a sever ignorance of the region.
* = http://www.newsecuritylearning.com/index.php/feature/118-training-to-save-central-america
"I would sooner Mexico be more like Canada South. With better education, with a better economy, and with an overall better attitude."
No offense intended, but I'd put that in the "pigs flying" category. Gordian knot, if you prefer. After a career as an INS agent, all I can say is that the immigration issue has gotten to just about the point slavery was in, say, 1856. Apply the deluxe version of Boyd's OODA loop and plot our current position. The political system is incapable of dealing with it, and the pressure is building. Add to that all the other "issues" we have...
Recently I ran across the phrase, "Culture plus mindset equals destiny", and I wish I hadn't.
There's a helluva lot of chickens in the landing pattern, guys.
The Popes opinion is worth about as much to me as Kanye West's Opinion is. Diddly squat.
A wall really won't do much seeing as there are tunnels galore. I'm not against a wall, but I'd rather have StyerAUG's plan put in motion.
What we REALLY need to do to keep illegals out is actually hold the ones hiring them accountable. You hire an illegal- you pay HUGE fines. You do it again, you pay fines that would just about close your ****ing doors for business. Another time and fines that wipe you out completely.
Yes we need strict border control- otherwise why even have a national border? But we need to solve the problem at the root- business' get cheap labor; those dollars are sent to Central and south America and we all lose out big time.
Is it really so hard to see this and do something about it?
A wall, a bunch of towers, even Steyer's plan aint gonna stop people from coming here when they know once they get here there is easy money to be made and sent back home.
The answer to the illegal immigration issue is easy, make it so they can't get work here unless they go through the legal channels to do so. Problem solved.
Their will always be those that still employ them, but make it hurt and the major issue goes away.
How come no one is willing to do this? It boggles my mind how easy things can be when you take out the politics of it and the ridiculousness of it- yet so many people just turn their heads and continue to whine instead of call for the real solution to be put into action.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-19-16, 12:51
Any 'Comprehensive' solution has to end whelp-fare state where people get to be legal based on an illegal act. Added to THCDDM4s comment on employment and getting sanctuary cities to follow the law and that would make a fence less of an issue because it won't be worth coming here. Add in an aggressive deport program and you reduce the problem.
Mexico is our neighbor, if illegal aliens are the problem, then we need to deal with illegal aliens and not all of Mexico. Which brings us to finding a solution. Do we round them up and put them on a train bound for deportation? Do we impose fines for those who do not abide by our laws and hold them until they pay? Do we levy their assets and leave them with nothing? Do we give them amnesty? Do we give them full citizenship? Do we give them limited citizenship?- The problem will continue unless we talk about a solution and a wall is not a solution.
Mexico is our neighbor, if illegal aliens are the problem, then we need to deal with illegal aliens and not all of Mexico. Which brings us to finding a solution. Do we round them up and put them on a train bound for deportation? Do we impose fines for those who do not abide by our laws and hold them until they pay? Do we levy their assets and leave them with nothing? Do we give them amnesty? Do we give them full citizenship? Do we give them limited citizenship?- The problem will continue unless we talk about a solution and a wall is not a solution.
Semi agree, Mexicans coming over the border has gone down for a while due to poor economy in the US and improved border interdiction, and approx 50% of those coming over our border are not Mexican. Many 'mericans think anything south of TX is Mexico, but it aint so. I will say, improved border security (a physical wall for sake of building a wall does not seem the most efficient nor cost effective way to go about it) is logical considering who and what can come over our border. It's far from the answer to solving the issue of illegal immigration from our southern neighbors, plural.
Moose-Knuckle
02-19-16, 15:01
Second, while Mexico's capitalism, Catholicism and family values are compatible with American values, their graft and corruption aren't. Further, outside the family they have a significant problem with "value of life". They're not generally as bad as some of the ME Salafists, but some of them are just as bad if not worse. With over 100,000 casualties in the cartel wars so far, they're living a genocide down there.
We should be rightly concerned about those elements of their society setting up shop North of the border.
After a career as an INS agent, all I can say is that the immigration issue has gotten to just about the point slavery was in, say, 1856. Apply the deluxe version of Boyd's OODA loop and plot our current position. The political system is incapable of dealing with it, and the pressure is building. Add to that all the other "issues" we have...
Recently I ran across the phrase, "Culture plus mindset equals destiny", and I wish I hadn't.
There's a helluva lot of chickens in the landing pattern, guys.
Mexico has brothels that one can solicit sex with children. They turn a blind eye to morals so long as a buck can be made. They have large black market organ harvesting industry, typically kidnapped children. American tourists can take in a "donkey show" while visiting border town red light districts.
Then there is the content on Borderland Beat, it's not just hundreds of thousands of people have been murdered, it's the manner in which they suffered and died.
Mexico has brothels that one can solicit sex with children. They turn a blind eye to morals so long as a buck can be made. They have large black market organ harvesting industry, typically kidnapped children. American tourists can take in a "donkey show" while visiting border town red light districts.
Then there is the content on Borderland Beat, it's not just hundreds of thousands of people have been murdered, it's the manner in which they suffered and died.
America has the largest child sex trafficking on this side of the world.
Politicians turn a blind eye so long as they make a buck.
Planned Parenthood harvest organs from babies.
Were not much better than Mexico. We say we are. But why? The integrity this world has had for so long has started to vanish. The character that this world has had for so long is starting to diminish. The moral upbringing people passed down from generations is decreasing. Look at America, half of our country is on one side of every issue and the other half is on the other side. America still looks good to those on the outside because they don't care about the things that divided us like Shiites and Sunnis. They are more focused on the American Dream which is why more and more of Central and South Americans risk there life hiking through miles and miles desert to get here. I live in Texas, the people who built my house were Mexicans, the guys who mow my yard are Mexicans, the people that are doing all the road construction are Mexicans. Not the greatest jobs but provides money for a better life. The guy who mows my yard has 3 investment houses and a 70 acre ranch in Texas. That's more than most people have and he mows yards and does landscaping for a living. People in America use to work as hard as these people, many still do but a great many don't. The American Dream is what every one is after.
wilson1911
02-19-16, 17:32
If politicians had balls bigger than the size of raisins, we would just round them up as they crossed and put them to building the wall. 50 feet thick, 50 feet high. All out of adobe bricks. If you elect to try an illegal crossing with your kid, then they will grow up building the wall. If we happen to run out of people to build the wall.....texas has over 100 prisons, put them to work.
The ones not caught and put on wall duty, who actually make it into the usa will get put on a ship and transferred to the south most region of mexico. On arrival they will be told to jump and swim. All these passengers will also have a tattoo on the forehead saying "illegal". Thus eliminating the need for any paperwork. To get caught a second time is death.
One has to dream ........but the reality is that we are living in the decline of amerika. We the people have little say in what our politicians actually do. They only grovel at our feet when they need to be elected. The rest of the time, its one big party with the future of our country and lives. They are not effected by laws they pass.
Just look at this election cycle. We have a bunch of crap candidates to vote for. The dems want a full on swingers party and the repubs are still trying to pull their head out of their axx trying to pretend to be something they are not. I do not like Trump because he projects the same hope and change the other guy did without defining what that really is. How you approach solving the problem matters most. Just as we evolve as a people, both political party's have evolved into what they are now, they do not de-evolve into what they used to be. Trump speaks a lot of rhetoric without defining it. I think this will be his downfall of not winning.
America has the largest child sex trafficking on this side of the world.
Yeah...no.
http://interactive.guim.co.uk/embed/2014/jun/human-trafficking/index.html
Funny how he overlooks Mexico's wall, the one on their Southern Border.
This bears repeating. Most people have no clue that it even exists.
MountainRaven
02-19-16, 20:59
Anyone who thinks that the world has some sort of great moral character - or ever did - needs to crack open a history book.
As for Trump, of course he's not Christian: There is no room in his heart for anyone but Trump.
titsonritz
02-19-16, 23:17
How really gives two shits about what Mexico or the pontiff has to says about the American political process? As far as I am concerned if you're not an American citizen it is none of your affair.
Anyone who thinks that the world has some sort of great moral character - or ever did - needs to crack open a history book.
As for Trump, of course he's not Christian: There is no room in his heart for anyone but Trump.
That's a pretty broad brush. Are you suggesting he doesn't love his family? Additionally, if Trump was truly self centered he'd make sure he had good tickets to the afterlife squared away.
Moose-Knuckle
02-20-16, 02:29
America has the largest child sex trafficking on this side of the world.
Do you have a source for this?
Politicians turn a blind eye so long as they make a buck.
One of the few things we still do right is we shutdown pedo rings. Jarret from Subway ring a bell?
Planned Parenthood harvest organs from babies.
Gasp! Your not sexist are you?! Just joking, I don't agree with the abortion industry dressed up as women's rights. AT ALL . . .
Were not much better than Mexico. We say we are.
If that were true then why do they come up here by the millions?
I live in Texas, the people who built my house were Mexicans, the guys who mow my yard are Mexicans, the people that are doing all the road construction are Mexicans. Not the greatest jobs but provides money for a better life. The guy who mows my yard has 3 investment houses and a 70 acre ranch in Texas. That's more than most people have and he mows yards and does landscaping for a living. People in America use to work as hard as these people, many still do but a great many don't. The American Dream is what every one is after.
I live it Texas as well. My house was built with non-Mexican professional licensed plumbers, electricians, civil engineers, architects, and I'm sure the home builder used cheap day labor to pour the slab and frame the timbers, and lay the brick. I mow, trim, edge, weed my own damn lawn.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-20-16, 03:12
How many Mexicans do we have to take to fix Mexico?
Honestly, I think Mexicans and south Americans come to America to make money. A lot of people, mostly liberals, think our system is broke, capitalism is dead and the American dream expired in the 50's and 99% of all the money goes to the 1%. Of coarse, this is coming from the same group of people that think they should make $15/hour flipping burgers and serving coffee. When I say "We" I mean people- tend to think America as superior to other nations based on our capabilities, money, military and way of life. Americans for too long have overlooked opportunity and thought that the only way to be a millionaire was to be a doctor, lawyer, dot com ceo etc. Go to south florida and you will see extreamly wealthy south americans, exiled Cubans and Mexicans. Living in $5 million + condos and houses -paid cash and driving around Lamborghinis and Ferraris. My uncle is the Chairman of the University of Miami. One of his biggest donors is an illegal immigrant from Argentina, who donated $100 million to the hospital not once but twice. He is also building a $600 million dollar 11 story tower/condominium in Key Biscayne. He owns a company that makes socks- SOCKS! He didn't come here to make $15 and hour flipping hamburgers. He came here with a dream and drive and a lot of motivation. My lawn guy has been in Dallas for 8 years and like I said, owns 3 investment properties generating income and a 70 acre ranch in Fredericksburg. People in America think it cant be done but there is living breathing Mexican proof that it can. That's why they come over here.
I don't think the US is the capitol of child sex trafficking but I know it is a real problem and it happens everyday. Weather it be child porn, actual sex acts, abusive step father or curious brother. It happens. Jarred from Subway is one of thousands who bought pictures from someone who got them from someone else. But these days are changing with social media. Too many underage girls are posting pics of themselves online and since they are the subject of there own product, its not considered child porn. These young girls idolize the Kardashian, and all the Disney girls who are now horrible role models. My 14 year old cousin is grounded for life for posting nude pics of her self on tumblr. It wasn't just 1, my aunt told me like 100+. So its not just sleazy old men doing this, its young girls who do it for internet likes and thumbs up. Its a huge problem! But never the less, he tends to talk a lot about things happening in Texas when he is living in the upper east side Manhattan. People in government will vote against him just out of spite because they resent him. That affects you and I. He wont get what he wants, he will start calling people losers, morons and it might be funny. It will be like reality tv, but on a government level.
your right about the abortion industry: its not about women's rights.
About Trump. He is a real business man. He made billions here in America, when other CEO's say its too expensive and moved to China. You cant knock the guy who owns all of this http://www.trump.com/real-estate-portfolio/ and this http://www.trump.com/hotel-collection/ or this http://www.trump.com/golf/. Sure his dad gave him a few million, but Donald planted that seed and is now producing a lot of fruit. We love to hate him because he is arrogant, self indulging, self righteous, self centered and chauvinistic. I would be too if I was a billionaire and all of my wives were super models. I'm sure a man like Donald has to be friends with everyone and donate to everyone regardless of the party they are affiliated with. The games he plays, he has to put up a pretty big ante and put down a lot of money to get what he wants. But I think Donald says one thing and does another. I don't see Donald following through with most of his "patriotic" speeches about walls, veterans, China, Mexico, Russia. Being President would be something to add to his portfolio.
Honestly, I think Mexicans and south Americans come to America to make money. A lot of people, mostly liberals, think our system is broke, capitalism is dead and the American dream expired in the 50's and 99% of all the money goes to the 1%. Of coarse, this is coming from the same group of people that think they should make $15/hour flipping burgers and serving coffee. When I say "We" I mean people- tend to think America as superior to other nations based on our capabilities, money, military and way of life. Americans for too long have overlooked opportunity and thought that the only way to be a millionaire was to be a doctor, lawyer, dot com ceo etc. Go to south florida and you will see extreamly wealthy south americans, exiled Cubans and Mexicans. Living in $5 million + condos and houses -paid cash and driving around Lamborghinis and Ferraris. My uncle is the Chairman of the University of Miami. One of his biggest donors is an illegal immigrant from Argentina, who donated $100 million to the hospital not once but twice. He is also building a $600 million dollar 11 story tower/condominium in Key Biscayne. He owns a company that makes socks- SOCKS! He didn't come here to make $15 and hour flipping hamburgers. He came here with a dream and drive and a lot of motivation. My lawn guy has been in Dallas for 8 years and like I said, owns 3 investment properties generating income and a 70 acre ranch in Fredericksburg. People in America think it cant be done but there is living breathing Mexican proof that it can. That's why they come over here.
I don't think the US is the capitol of child sex trafficking but I know it is a real problem and it happens everyday. Weather it be child porn, actual sex acts, abusive step father or curious brother. It happens. Jarred from Subway is one of thousands who bought pictures from someone who got them from someone else. But these days are changing with social media. Too many underage girls are posting pics of themselves online and since they are the subject of there own product, its not considered child porn. These young girls idolize the Kardashian, and all the Disney girls who are now horrible role models. My 14 year old cousin is grounded for life for posting nude pics of her self on tumblr. It wasn't just 1, my aunt told me like 100+. So its not just sleazy old men doing this, its young girls who do it for internet likes and thumbs up. Its a huge problem! But never the less, he tends to talk a lot about things happening in Texas when he is living in the upper east side Manhattan. People in government will vote against him just out of spite because they resent him. That affects you and I. He wont get what he wants, he will start calling people losers, morons and it might be funny. It will be like reality tv, but on a government level.
your right about the abortion industry: its not about women's rights.
About Trump. He is a real business man. He made billions here in America, when other CEO's say its too expensive and moved to China. You cant knock the guy who owns all of this http://www.trump.com/real-estate-portfolio/ and this http://www.trump.com/hotel-collection/ or this http://www.trump.com/golf/. Sure his dad gave him a few million, but Donald planted that seed and is now producing a lot of fruit. We love to hate him because he is arrogant, self indulging, self righteous, self centered and chauvinistic. I would be too if I was a billionaire and all of my wives were super models. I'm sure a man like Donald has to be friends with everyone and donate to everyone regardless of the party they are affiliated with. The games he plays, he has to put up a pretty big ante and put down a lot of money to get what he wants. But I think Donald says one thing and does another. I don't see Donald following through with most of his "patriotic" speeches about walls, veterans, China, Mexico, Russia. Being President would be something to add to his portfolio.
As far as making his money over here...
He's in real estate, not manufacturing. So, not even remotely comparable. Also, he does a MASSIVE amount of business overseas.
Companies don't move manufacturing overseas just for the sake of moving.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm sure a man like Donald has to be friends with everyone and donate to everyone regardless of the party they are affiliated with.
You got that right:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-mob-mafia/
https://youtu.be/0-UvddeBilQ
http://theresurgent.com/in-2013-and-2014-donald-trump-was-funding-john-boehner-mitch-mcconnell-against-the-tea-party/
ANY large business plays both sides of the aisle.
Many, many, people/businesses contribute to BOTH parties.
Why? They want a seat at the table regardless of the winner. Not condoning or chastising anyone for this practice. It is what it is. Calling out someone in particular for this is disingenuous.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-20-16, 10:58
Anyone who thinks that the world has some sort of great moral character - or ever did - needs to crack open a history book.
As for Trump, of course he's not Christian: There is no room in his heart for anyone but Trump.
Sometimes God worries that he is developing a Trump complex.
He wont get what he wants, he will start calling people losers, morons and it might be funny. It will be like reality tv, but on a government level.
Sounds very familiar. Oh that's right, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Hussein Obama all resort to name calling as a first line of defending their abject failure. You know, the sort of people Donald financially donates to.
A lot of people, mostly liberals, think our system is broke, capitalism is dead and the American dream expired in the 50's and 99% of all the money goes to the 1%. Of coarse, this is coming from the same group of people that think they should make $15/hour flipping burgers and serving coffee.
Certainly not defending liberalism here, but tossing around falsehoods about America being the largest child sex trafficker on this side of the world isn't exactly indicative of one who stands against the false narratives of the liberals. These comments do not lead to the drawing of conclusions based on fact, and they don't exactly gush with love for America.
America has the largest child sex trafficking on this side of the world.
Politicians turn a blind eye so long as they make a buck.
Planned Parenthood harvest organs from babies.
Were not much better than Mexico.
ANY large business plays both sides of the aisle.
Many, many, people/businesses contribute to BOTH parties.
Why? They want a seat at the table regardless of the winner. Not condoning or chastising anyone for this practice. It is what it is. Calling out someone in particular for this is disingenuous.
Oh really? George Soros contributes to both parties? The Koch brothers contribute to both parties? Warren Buffett contributes to both parties (he has actually made only $350,000 of political contributions in SIXTEEN years)? Bill Gates has donated less than $500,000 in 15 years to political causes and 92% can be traced back to the GOP (his foundation gives billions to various non-political charities). This notion that successful business enterprises must play both sides of the isle is a lie. Plenty of rich idealogs, from both the left and the right, contribute according to their principles. Plenty of other successful people give next to nothing of their fortune.
As far as Donald Trump- He donates to both parties and apparently pays people to attend his weddings. I don't think Donald is a Republican or a Democrat. He is Donald Trump, a man out for himself.
Cincinnatus
02-20-16, 14:43
Just a brief aside:
Yes we have warred with Canada; War of 1812 was primarily against Canada; Britain relied on its colony to do most of the fighting seeing as how they were distracted by Napoleon at the time--the British Way of War is to let others do most of the fighting anyway.
Nevertheless, glocktogo's point still stands, because it has nothing to do with any Canadian sense of entitlement.
Just a brief aside:
Yes we have warred with Canada; War of 1812 was primarily against Canada; Britain relied on its colony to do most of the fighting seeing as how they were distracted by Napoleon at the time--the British Way of War is to let others do most of the fighting anyway.
Nevertheless, glocktogo's point still stands, because it has nothing to do with any Canadian sense of entitlement.
Which is all I was pointing out. That's why I stated I understood what he was saying.
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AnthonyCumia
02-24-16, 02:00
Nothing screams hypocrisy like a Pope living inside a walled city with a private army telling others to tear down their walls and to disarm.
AnthonyCumia
02-24-16, 02:06
As far as Donald Trump- He donates to both parties and apparently pays people to attend his weddings. I don't think Donald is a Republican or a Democrat. He is Donald Trump, a man out for himself.
True but that does not mean we can not use him to our benefit.
I don't know. I kind of like Trump. I wasn't really convinced at first, but his balls to say what most of us are thinking and stare down the Left-wing media-hysteria industrial complex deserves respect.
I was ecstatic to see Jeb Bush bow out. I have no idea where his supporters are going to go, but I hope they see that cuckservatism doesn't pay.
Moose-Knuckle
02-24-16, 03:09
I was ecstatic to see Jeb Bush bow out. I have no idea where his supporters are going to go, but I hope they see that cuckservatism doesn't pay.
As was I, Jeb said before he would support Hilary before he would Trump. So . . .
I still find it interesting people think they need to LIKE the person?
so who is your favorite murderer ? IMHO they are all bad
at least trump is not a career politician
so its always been for me choosing the best option not the best person who has values they SAY are going to be as close to mine and then checking there history and past
when I see what Trump has said in the past and things he has done at least for me at this point he might be the best or cruz
for me at least its down to these two
trump has said and shown he does care about this country and what happens to it
cruz I just cant seem to find much on him speaking outside of politics ?
But but, someone could get a boo boo doing that, and we can't have it. It seems the dirty secret that's not so secret, they don't really want it to change. That's been made abundantly clear regardless of which party was in office.
I realized the whole system was rigged when Bush got on the TV and said "We can't just deport 12 million people… Its just not logistically possible…"
So after Hurricane Katrina hit we evacuated 22 million people out of NOLA and into other states, but somehow its not logistically possible to move 12 million people two hours south? I called B.S. I've got a horse trailer. I could move 50 at a time and make two or there trips a day all by myself!
This is when I realized that it doesn't matter which of the two parties is currently in power. They are two sides of the same counterfeit coin. Neither party has America's best interest in mind.
MountainRaven
02-24-16, 23:49
True but that does not mean we can not use him to our benefit.
What makes you think We, The People can use Trump? Is there anything about him that suggests that anyone - anyone who doesn't have deeper pockets than he has, anyway - can use him?
I think that trying to use Trump is a bit like trying to ride a dragon: It'd be really cool if you could pull it off, but it's pretty definitely not going to happen, and the closer you are to success the more likely you are to be eaten alive.
What makes you think We, The People can use Trump? Is there anything about him that suggests that anyone - anyone who doesn't have deeper pockets than he has, anyway - can use him?
I think that trying to use Trump is a bit like trying to ride a dragon: It'd be really cool if you could pull it off, but it's pretty definitely not going to happen, and the closer you are to success the more likely you are to be eaten alive.
If it comes down to Trump vs. Clinton, I hope we ride the dragon.
AnthonyCumia
02-25-16, 03:00
What makes you think We, The People can use Trump? Is there anything about him that suggests that anyone - anyone who doesn't have deeper pockets than he has, anyway - can use him?
I think that trying to use Trump is a bit like trying to ride a dragon: It'd be really cool if you could pull it off, but it's pretty definitely not going to happen, and the closer you are to success the more likely you are to be eaten alive.
He is proof if you just speak the truth and attacking the lying media you will get far, plus his agenda and ours link up very nicely.
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