View Full Version : Why a proper holster is essential
Amp Mangum
02-21-16, 12:32
This is a story that we’ve seen quite a few times before, and it will serve as yet another example of why using a proper holster is essential to safety when carrying a firearm.
GRAPHIC PICTURES
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/02/daniel-zimmerman/389874/
This is a story that we’ve seen quite a few times before, and it will serve as yet another example of why using a proper holster is essential to safety when carrying a firearm. The man with the extra hole in the photos below is named Matt. He was gracious enough to give me a call, even though he’s no doubt in quite a bit of pain. After talking with him for over a half hour, I got a good picture of what happened and, more importantly, what lessons can be learned. He wanted to share this story, in hopes that it would stop this from happening to someone else. Here is how Matt’s Tuesday went . . .
A concealed carrier for over 10 years now, Matt typically carries in molded leather holsters. Up until this point, he’d never had an issue with his setup. He was thinking of making a change to a new holster just to see how it would go. His had his eye on a more expensive leather holster, but wanted to try a cheaper nylon one first to see if that would be his style. He bought a BLACKHAWK! Nylon IWB Holster, Size B.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjMVlGvCt3Q
But seriously I feel bad for homeslice. More thought should be put in where you stick your gun
This is why I've never been a big fan if IWB carry.
Mauser KAR98K
02-21-16, 14:37
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1458/24546464684_3f31daec61.jpg
If your ass is worth $10, buy a $10 holster.
Whiskey_Bravo
02-21-16, 14:59
Yep, never understood people spending decent money on a gun and then running to Walmart or Cabelas and grabbing an uncle mikes or some crap like that.
Ouch. Note to self: One ass hole good...two ass holes bad.
Well I guess that is the END of that !
Yep, never understood people spending decent money on a gun and then running to Walmart or Cabelas and grabbing an uncle mikes or some crap like that.
I think in general it is simply ignorance. They don't realize it is an important part of the equation and they don't know what makes a good holster.
-john
MountainRaven
02-21-16, 16:07
I think in general it is simply ignorance. They don't realize it is an important part of the equation and they don't know what makes a good holster.
-john
It doesn't help that most retailers stock pretty much only the crappy holsters (not that you can blame them, really - how much money and floor space would have to be tied up in good quality holsters? Leather and kydex... in flavors of concealment OWB, IWB, AIWB, competition/range holsters, field holsters and maybe even duty holsters... for Glocks (42, 43, 26, 29, 19, 20, 17), SiGs (P220-series full-size, P228/229, P320F, P320C), 1911s (officer, commander, government), M&Ps (compact 9/40, full-size 9/40, compact 45, full-size 45), XDs (3" XD/XD Mod2, 4" XD/XD Mod2, 5" XD/XD Mod 2, 3.8" XDm, 4.5" XDm, 5.25" XDm, 3.3" XDs, 4.0" XDs), Beretta (M92, M9A1, M9A1-type compact, Px4 full-size, Px4 compact, Px4 sub-compact). That's a lot of money tied up in stuff that isn't likely to move due to a combination of price and how specific/picky people can be about the sort of holster they want to carry their gun in).
So that means lots of crappy Uncle Mike's holsters. And since that's what are on the shelf, that's what the salesfolk sell and it's what the new gun buyer buys (unless they get an M&P or XD that comes with a holster).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXLqvrHW8AAItBp.jpg
OWWW! RIGHT UP MAIN STREET!
It doesn't help that most retailers stock pretty much only the crappy holsters
Agreed.
-john
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-21-16, 21:44
Is there anything available locally that is far surpassed by what you can get online? Even at Home Depot, there is way better stuff available by special order. Pretty much anything, everywhere that is in stock sucks. Now maybe if you live in New York City or Chicago or LA and you can find a specialty store perhaps one in a population of 10 million then you can find something that's worthwhile. Those of us that live in second-tier cities are stuck with second-tier crap, unless we buy online.
The fact that anyone sticks a ready-to-rock pistol in a flimsy holster, in their pants is amazing. Not suprising, but... think about it!
I actually have that same holster I used 2 times for a shield carried with safety on and still wasn't comfortable enough with it, so I tossed it.
Averageman
02-21-16, 22:12
Does anyone here transition from a belt mounted holster of a vehicle mounted holster?
I've been considering this option as the gun would be more available at the most vulnerable times.
You also have to figure the holster / firearm combination.
If you are using a DA auto or revolver you have a little bit more of a safety margin. I've seen cocked and locked 1911s clicked off safe by seat belts and things like that in a lot of open top style holsters. Even if you are using a quality leather holster, at that point it simply takes a small curl to enter the trigger guard.
I know a guy who put a round down his pants when his IWB leather holster hung the trigger of his Glock as he reholstered. Luckily he only took a burning skid mark and nothing worse. Striker fired SA autos always make me a little more aware when I'm drawing or holstering.
Ouch!!! Blackhawk nylon non-rigid, generic fit sloppy holster + loaded gun = no bueno
Moose-Knuckle
02-22-16, 04:24
I read the linked article and did not see where the author mentioned what handgun was involved with this incident. In the picture of the destroyed holster the caption states; "The gun (not a GLOCK) in the holster…after the fact."
I was also surprised to read that the gentleman did not feel any pain after having a through and through.
For a long time I would only carry IWB with a striker pistol with a grip safety. I still prefer it, though sometimes the M&P calls me.
Always leather/kydex.
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Does anyone here transition from a belt mounted holster of a vehicle mounted holster?
I've been considering this option as the gun would be more available at the most vulnerable times.
Yes. I have been using a G-Code RTI Vehicle Mounting System (http://www.tacticalholsters.com/product/Accessories/GSG017.html) for about 6 months. The retention is good and secure, as to be expected. I travel some very rough roads, and everything has stayed in place so far.
I was also surprised to read that the gentleman did not feel any pain after having a through and through.
Much more common than many would think.
I read the linked article and did not see where the author mentioned what handgun was involved with this incident. In the picture of the destroyed holster the caption states; "The gun (not a GLOCK) in the holster…after the fact."
I was also surprised to read that the gentleman did not feel any pain after having a through and through.
Shock is an amazing thing. My grandfather had his pinky taken off by a lathe. Didn't know for a few minutes till the guy next to him freaked out. Thought the red stuff on the floor was lube.
As for the holster thing. 99% of gun owners aren't gun folks. They go the LGS, Walmart, Academy ... buy the gun, ammo and whatever the need. They don't take the time to look up holsters on line or even go more than 2 isles. It's not impossible to believe that some guy would buy a gun sausage and think it's he next best thing single sliced bread. Why would he know any better??
I've never had an inclination to stick a pistol inside my pants, no matter what kind of holster. It creeps me out for some reason. For Christmas the wife bought me one of those new Beretta M9a3 pistols and a Bianchi M12 holster. She thought she would help rekindle some of my old Army memories. I had neglected to tell her what I had thought of the M12 during my Army years. I've been wearing this setup on horseback the past few weeks and it did rekindle some past memories. Every time you insert the pistol into the M12, it likes to move the decock lever around. Insert the weapon into the holster and it places it in decock. Remove the pistol and the decock lever moves up. I've got to find another rig.
MountainRaven
02-22-16, 12:10
I actually like the M12... for a field holster. Maybe not as much as an M1912 or an M1916, but I've never even remotely felt like my pistol was going to bounce out of an M12 and land somewhere on the trail where I'd never see it ever again (not that I have with an M1912/M1916 but, you know).
Right now I'm experimenting with both the thumb break versus the flap cover on the M12. Either way the holster keeps the weapon secure. Maybe it will loosen up a bit with use. When I was active duty Army, I used a shoulder holster for my sidearm while flying.
Averageman
02-22-16, 14:30
Yes. I have been using a G-Code RTI Vehicle Mounting System (http://www.tacticalholsters.com/product/Accessories/GSG017.html) for about 6 months. The retention is good and secure, as to be expected. I travel some very rough roads, and everything has stayed in place so far.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.
In the article the victim/perp (whatever) claims he thought he might have tucked his shirt into the holster. Regardless if using a crappy holster or not, it is a real danger with any holster. I wear a lot of loose fitting shirts and coats, and I am VERY careful while holstering. I cut those damn cord locks off the bottom of every one of my coats too. I've wrestled with unholstering every time I get in the truck. I decided that if I made a hasty exit or was in a crash I didn't want to risk forgetting to grab my pistol. I leave my EDC carry pistol on my belt and carry a second pistol in the truck secured in a holster under the dash.
scoutfsu99
02-22-16, 19:56
Yes. I have been using a G-Code RTI Vehicle Mounting System (http://www.tacticalholsters.com/product/Accessories/GSG017.html) for about 6 months. The retention is good and secure, as to be expected. I travel some very rough roads, and everything has stayed in place so far.
I use the same thing except with a SOC. So far, it's worked great for me.
In the article the victim/perp (whatever) claims he thought he might have tucked his shirt into the holster. Regardless if using a crappy holster or not, it is a real danger with any holster. I wear a lot of loose fitting shirts and coats, and I am VERY careful while holstering. I cut those damn cord locks off the bottom of every one of my coats too. I've wrestled with unholstering every time I get in the truck. I decided that if I made a hasty exit or was in a crash I didn't want to risk forgetting to grab my pistol. I leave my EDC carry pistol on my belt and carry a second pistol in the truck secured in a holster under the dash.
Bears reading a second time.
Just as you don't depend on mechanical safeties, you don't depend on holster design to keep you safe. With anything less than a full flap holster I can probably induce a discharge with any holster design with enough deliberate negligence.
Your jacket didn't make it go off, your shirt didn't make it go off, your seat belt didn't make it go off...your lack of preventative responsibility made it go off. Seen LOTS of people try and blame cord locks on their NDs and other things. Sadly not as many people are able to recognize the potential hazards and take preventative action the way you did.
Averageman
02-23-16, 08:30
Your jacket didn't make it go off, your shirt didn't make it go off, your seat belt didn't make it go off...your lack of preventative responsibility made it go off. Seen LOTS of people try and blame cord locks on their NDs and other things. Sadly not as many people are able to recognize the potential hazards and take preventative action the way you did.
There you go again SteyAug preaching some personal responsibility, that's just so out of fashion.
Just as you don't depend on mechanical safeties, you don't depend on holster design to keep you safe.
While I don't disagree with anything you said, it shouldn't be construed as a suggestion that you not get a holster that properly fits you firearm, completely covers the fire controls, does not interfere with the safety (if exists) and properly retains your firearm.
-john
OWWW! RIGHT UP MAIN STREET!
I haven't seen the movie yet. Is he shooting between his legs? Or is this a "holster discharge"?
I've never had an inclination to stick a pistol inside my pants, no matter what kind of holster. It creeps me out for some reason.
Agreed, but not just for the (ND potential) reason you are getting at. The additional problem is retention. While it may feel secure while you are walking and vertical, that can quickly change if you need to run or you take a tumble.
-john
Does anyone here transition from a belt mounted holster of a vehicle mounted holster?
I've been considering this option as the gun would be more available at the most vulnerable times.
IMO the less you handle your firearm in public the better.
I may be the minority but I have never been overly uncomfortable in the car carrying between 2:00 - 4:00, nor do I feel like I cannot draw.
And like another poster has pointed out, if you get out in a hurry there is a good chance you will leave without your firearm.
When Murphy arrives you likely will only have what is on your person to greet him.
-john
Moose-Knuckle
02-24-16, 01:01
In the article the victim/perp (whatever) claims he thought he might have tucked his shirt into the holster. Regardless if using a crappy holster or not, it is a real danger with any holster.
From the linked article:
His (and my) best guess is this: he had a t-shirt tucked in at the time, between the holster and his body. He also had a button down shirt that covered everything up. What likely happened was a ‘bunching’ of the t-shirt that got into the trigger guard of the pistol, and pushed the nylon material inward.
I don't think the gentleman's under/t-shirt got down into the holster itself, the fabric bunched up and basically forced itself into the trigger guard pushing the fabric holster from the outside inward and as he was going to sit down the downward motion was enough to activate the trigger.
I wear a lot of loose fitting shirts and coats, and I am VERY careful while holstering. I cut those damn cord locks off the bottom of every one of my coats too.
I have done this as well, not only do these cord locks pose a snag hazard I also find them to be annoying as they hit the side of my kydex holsters as I walk and make a ruckus.
I've wrestled with unholstering every time I get in the truck. I decided that if I made a hasty exit or was in a crash I didn't want to risk forgetting to grab my pistol. I leave my EDC carry pistol on my belt and carry a second pistol in the truck secured in a holster under the dash.
That is a splendid solution and another reason to acquire a duplicate of one's CCW.
Averageman
02-24-16, 09:01
IMO the less you handle your firearm in public the better.
I may be the minority but I have never been overly uncomfortable in the car carrying between 2:00 - 4:00, nor do I feel like I cannot draw.
And like another poster has pointed out, if you get out in a hurry there is a good chance you will leave without your firearm.
When Murphy arrives you likely will only have what is on your person to greet him.
-john
Well, I don't mind taking my pistol out of my holster as I enter or exit the vehicle.
It's actually less of a burden than playing with the seatbelt, repositioning the holster as I enter or exit and for the most part when I am most vulnerable, entering or exiting my vehicle, the pistol is in my hand.
Everybody has their own way of doing things, but as long as I'm using two quality holsters, I don't see an issue. Take pistol from belt mounted holster, place pistol in vehicle mounted holster.
I certainly don't see how I could leave without my firearm in such a case.
I don't always transition to my vehicle mounted holster when driving. However, if I am going to be driving for hours, going into the Post Office, bank, or something similar, I find that it works well. I like it better than going into the console with it. Proper and safe handling of your firearm is always mandatory, so as long as one is taking care there will be no issues with ND.
From the linked article:
I don't think the gentleman's under/t-shirt got down into the holster itself, the fabric bunched up and basically forced itself into the trigger guard pushing the fabric holster from the outside inward and as he was going to sit down the downward motion was enough to activate the trigger.
Even with that cheap Uncle Mikes holster, I'm not sure if that is possible. I do think it's possible to get shirt stuffed inside that ill-fitting holster without making the pistol fire, something that is not possible with a kydex holster. With a kydex holster it would just go bang sooner if you weren't careful. Looking at those photos and the angle of the shot, I am at a loss as to what kind of IWB he was doing anyway... it was awful far to the rear. Looks like small of the back with a L.H. IWB holster. I think there might very well be more to the story.
*** added on edit*** looking at the photos of the holster it is clearly evident that the pistol was half out of the holster when it fired. Even more reason to be using a proper fitting holster.
While I don't disagree with anything you said, it shouldn't be construed as a suggestion that you not get a holster that properly fits you firearm, completely covers the fire controls, does not interfere with the safety (if exists) and properly retains your firearm.
-john
Agreed. I was suggesting everyone use a sock.
Agreed. I was suggesting everyone use a sock.
Compression or regular?
Moose-Knuckle
02-25-16, 00:42
Even with that cheap Uncle Mikes holster, I'm not sure if that is possible. I do think it's possible to get shirt stuffed inside that ill-fitting holster without making the pistol fire, something that is not possible with a kydex holster. With a kydex holster it would just go bang sooner if you weren't careful. Looking at those photos and the angle of the shot, I am at a loss as to what kind of IWB he was doing anyway... it was awful far to the rear. Looks like small of the back with a L.H. IWB holster. I think there might very well be more to the story.
*** added on edit*** looking at the photos of the holster it is clearly evident that the pistol was half out of the holster when it fired. Even more reason to be using a proper fitting holster.
I think you might be right, the angle of the wound and the holster placement was FUBAR on top of the cheap non rigid holster. The gun could have very well been coming up and out of the holster as the body was building momentum in a downward motion as he attempted to sit down in his car.
I am not an advocate of cheap holsters, but you can get a shirttail pushed into a high dollar holster while holstering a handgun and have the same result.
I have seen shirttails and jacket pull cords foul holsters while running plain clothes officers through pistol training and qualifications. Fortunately, we did not have anyone shoot themselves while holstering their Glock 23's.
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