View Full Version : Match Barrel in my Glocks a waste of money?
Hey all, I'm kind of contemplating putting a match barrel in either my G19 or my G34. I've looked at Zev, S3F, Wilson Combat, Blacklist Ind, and KKM precision. My biggest question is, for a bit of competitive shooting but nothing much more than a hobby (G34), or my daily carry gun (G19) am I wasting a couple hundred bucks or will this be a significant improvement? Another big concern I have, and I'll assume this differs from barrel to barrel, but will I have difficulty shooting crappy ammo out of a match barrel? I shoot a good amount of crappy brass, and even steel 9mm through both of these guns.
Thanks in advance! Looking forward to hearing your experiences.
Only worthwhile if the factory barrel is holding you back.
Only worthwhile if the factory barrel is holding you back.
That's what I'm trying to decide. I don't know that it is, because I feel like I shoot both pistols very well. I haven't ever had a match barrel in a pistol before, so I guess I'm just not sure if I'm going to see any real difference in the practical type of shooting that I do. I don't shoot groups off of a bench, I pretty much just stick to closer range, concealed carry, law enforcement and competition types of shooting.
teutonicpolymer
02-25-16, 07:13
Glocks vary in accuracy
There are two main reasons to upgrade:
-shooting lots of lead bullets
-your stock barrel is not accurate enough
You need to print groups with both guns at distance. I'd say groups at 15 yards and 25 yards.
I have had noticeable results with KKM Drop in for G19. Where are you located?
I'm running an S3F drop-in my G17. It made a noticeable, but not drastic difference. At distances of 20+ yards the increase in accuracy is more pronounced. I wouldn't say plunk down for one though unless you've just got money burning a hole in your pocket and want to tinker for the sake of tinkering.
Can you consistently stay in the black on a B8 bullseye at 25 yards? If yes, you might get something out of a match barrel. If not, work on you first.
I've seen several Glocks with Barsto barrels lately. Accurate, properly fit, and reliable.
Mrgunsngear
02-25-16, 10:28
Hey all, I'm kind of contemplating putting a match barrel in either my G19 or my G34. I've looked at Zev, S3F, Wilson Combat, Blacklist Ind, and KKM precision. My biggest question is, for a bit of competitive shooting but nothing much more than a hobby (G34), or my daily carry gun (G19) am I wasting a couple hundred bucks or will this be a significant improvement? Another big concern I have, and I'll assume this differs from barrel to barrel, but will I have difficulty shooting crappy ammo out of a match barrel? I shoot a good amount of crappy brass, and even steel 9mm through both of these guns.
Thanks in advance! Looking forward to hearing your experiences.
It's always tough to quantify "significant" but you can see what I found with my Wilson drop in for my G17:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWLcsyUXWDE
If you think that kind of accuracy is worth it -- then sure it's worth it. If not, well then I suppose no.
I have a pair of the S3F barrels in G19s. I got the first one after I read that they did better with heavier bullets (I shoot 147gr exclusively) than the factory barrels. I took it to the range for sighting in (RMR'd slide) and ended-up shooting a few cloverleaf groups at 10 yards. Then I backed-up and shot groups off a sandbag at 25 yards.
I went home and ordered the second barrel. ;)
If you have the itch you're going to buy one anyway so just get one of the KKM's and be happy. Personally I like all the help I can get, barrels aren't a huge investment and not a permanent mod so why not? I'm thinking the same thing now, I have a new Gen4 G19 at ATEi getting done up so I want this thing to drive tacks.
Can you consistently stay in the black on a B8 bullseye at 25 yards? If yes, you might get something out of a match barrel. If not, work on you first.
I've seen several Glocks with Barsto barrels lately. Accurate, properly fit, and reliable.
I installed a Bar-Sto barrel in my Glock 22 and noticed a marked difference in accuracy with good reloads. Brass does not expand as much as it does from rounds fired through the OEM barrel, so I segregate brass for match loads.
WickedWillis
02-25-16, 11:55
Can you consistently stay in the black on a B8 bullseye at 25 yards? If yes, you might get something out of a match barrel. If not, work on you first.
I've seen several Glocks with Barsto barrels lately. Accurate, properly fit, and reliable.
Good advice. I figure I will switch to a match barrel once my groups begin to widen without shooter error down the road.
Can you consistently stay in the black on a B8 bullseye at 25 yards? If yes, you might get something out of a match barrel. If not, work on you first.
I've seen several Glocks with Barsto barrels lately. Accurate, properly fit, and reliable.
That is a great rule of thumb. Although a more precise pistol will help anyone, this rule of thumb still makes sense to me.
I recently dropped KKM barrels into a G17 and G19 just for my enjoyment. I've got several hundred rounds through each and have reached the following conclusions thus far:
1. I improved my B8 at 25 yards shooting maybe 10-15% in the G17.
2. I improved my B8 at 25 yards shooting with a G19 about 50%. It is now about equal to my G17 shooting at 25 yards.
3. Improvements out at 50 were more dramatic. Keeping 5 in the A/C became 5-6" groups. I am wondering if the improved bullet harmonics just come into play more past 25 yards. ???
4. Glock ejection on each is more consistent directionally. Less lawn sprinkler. Go figure.
5. Obviously no different shooting speed oriented drills at relatively close range.
6. They didn't improve all guns of like model equally. One 19 hardly improved at all. Then in another; sweat baby Jesus!
7. In one G17 the barrel's POI at 50 yards became like 2 feet high. In the other the POI was just right to hit the B8 black with a 6 o'clock hold.
8. I am pretty sure I HAVE to get one for a G26 now.
9. No cycling issues at all.
10. They don't seem to be very ammo picky as far as I've seen with just a few loads.
I am addicted to them now.
I have a KKM barrel for Gen 3 Glock 17. I saw a noticeable improvement in accuracy with 115 and 124 grain bullets. However, I haven't found a 147gr load that it shoots well. If shooting the heavier bullets, I use the factory barrel.
Linebacker
02-25-16, 20:32
Is there a fairly established hierarchy among barrel manufacturers? Price not being a factor...
I run BarSto barrels in all my match Glocks. I shoot SSP/ESP Master in IDPA, so I notice the accuracy gain in my scores. One benefit rarely discussed is the improved feel of the trigger pull. Slowly dry fire a stock Glock and watch the back of the slide dip, then pop back up as the striker is released. When you drop in a match barrel, the tighter lockup eliminates most of the slide dip, making the trigger pull less spongy. I liken it to replacing factory spec shocks on your car with sport tuned, gas charged shocks. Better control equals better practical accuracy, assuming you have good fundamentals. :)
BarSto and KKM are top shelf from what I see at matches.
Is there a fairly established hierarchy among barrel manufacturers? Price not being a factor...
Another thing I had wondered, there are a toooooonnnn of options out there. A ton.
Do a search and you'll find several in-depth discussions about match barrels in Glocks.
The short answer is that if you've tested enough ammo to know what your pistol shoots best and you can keep 10 shots in the black on a B-8 bull at 25 yards, then you might benefit from one, but only at 25 yards and beyond. Otherwise, test ammo and work on your groups until you meet both of the above qualifications.
Okie John
teutonicpolymer
02-25-16, 22:18
Do a search and you'll find several in-depth discussions about match barrels in Glocks.
The short answer is that if you've tested enough ammo to know what your pistol shoots best and you can keep 10 shots in the black on a B-8 bull at 25 yards, then you might benefit from one, but only at 25 yards and beyond. Otherwise, test ammo and work on your groups until you meet both of the above qualifications.
Okie John
I disagree with this assessment because I've shot Glocks that are legitimate 1" guns at 25 yards and then some that are more like 5" guns at 25 yards, so you might be limited by the gun in some cases
No matter what, the first step is printing some groups
WatchTheWorldBern
02-25-16, 22:19
That is a great rule of thumb. Although a more precise pistol will help anyone, this rule of thumb still makes sense to me.
I recently dropped KKM barrels into a G17 and G19 just for my enjoyment. I've got several hundred rounds through each and have reached the following conclusions thus far:
1. I improved my B8 at 25 yards shooting maybe 10-15% in the G17.
2. I improved my B8 at 25 yards shooting with a G19 about 50%. It is now about equal to my G17 shooting at 25 yards.
3. Improvements out at 50 were more dramatic. Keeping 5 in the A/C became 5-6" groups. I am wondering if the improved bullet harmonics just come into play more past 25 yards. ???
4. Glock ejection on each is more consistent directionally. Less lawn sprinkler. Go figure.
5. Obviously no different shooting speed oriented drills at relatively close range.
6. They didn't improve all guns of like model equally. One 19 hardly improved at all. Then in another; sweat baby Jesus!
7. In one G17 the barrel's POI at 50 yards became like 2 feet high. In the other the POI was just right to hit the B8 black with a 6 o'clock hold.
8. I am pretty sure I HAVE to get one for a G26 now.
9. No cycling issues at all.
10. They don't seem to be very ammo picky as far as I've seen with just a few loads.
I am addicted to them now.
Which generation? I've heard that Gen4 Glocks are more accurate than older generations—anyone know if that's true?
Which generation? I've heard that Gen4 Glocks are more accurate than older generations—anyone know if that's true?
Could be the difference in the barrel lengths, but I don't feel that my Gen 3 34 is any less accurate than my Gen 4 G19.
I disagree with this assessment because I've shot Glocks that are legitimate 1" guns at 25 yards and then some that are more like 5" guns at 25 yards, so you might be limited by the gun in some cases
No matter what, the first step is printing some groups
Agreed on both points.
Okie John
Which generation? I've heard that Gen4 Glocks are more accurate than older generations—anyone know if that's true?
I've heard that from a number of folks I trust, although some of the later Gen3 guns are supposed to be just as good. I've also seen it in my very small sample of 5-6 Gen3 G17's and G19's versus a Gen4 G17 and a Gen4 G19. Both Gen4 guns will make honest 1.5" groups at 25 yards regularly with the loads they prefer.
Okie John
brickboy240
02-26-16, 07:59
I have a late made 3rd gen G19 and I can attest to it's accuracy. It is the most accurate of the 4 Glocks I own.
Mrgunsngear
02-26-16, 10:53
Which generation? I've heard that Gen4 Glocks are more accurate than older generations—anyone know if that's true?
I've found that newer Glocks are more accurate regardless of the generation. Seems the lockup is better.
Which generation? I've heard that Gen4 Glocks are more accurate than older generations—anyone know if that's true?
My KKM comparos are all with Gen 3s so far. IMO Gen 4 are generally more precise. I think Okie joe has observed custom barrels have more impact on 3s than 4s. I take that seriously.
Little update: Shot both my G34 and my G19 from a table at about 30 yards (in really terrible wind, FWIW.) G34 group on top, G19 group on bottom. Not very scientific by any means, but it gave me a better idea of where the guns are at. I guess, I thought both guns would be better, for one. Maybe it's me and not the guns, idk. I consider myself to be a good pistol shooter, but never do any kind of "bullseye" or shooting from a rest whatsoever. What do you guys think? I can definitely live with the G34 group, but I'm not too thrilled with the G19. Maybe a match barrel is in my future....
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/FB51F0B7-AAD4-4E46-8152-0CBBD7ED648F.jpg (http://s868.photobucket.com/user/tzmanbball/media/FB51F0B7-AAD4-4E46-8152-0CBBD7ED648F.jpg.html)
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab245/tzmanbball/A40A0DE6-29C8-4C87-8CD9-BDA7C28F6649.jpg (http://s868.photobucket.com/user/tzmanbball/media/A40A0DE6-29C8-4C87-8CD9-BDA7C28F6649.jpg.html)
If you are applying all fundamentals correctly the joe average glock will group under 3 inches. To really test accuracy you need to do a lot better than a group or two shot in windy conditions at a sloppy splotch of spray paint. I often shoot my glocks as far as 50 yards and at times to 100. At 50 the group size tends to be about 3-4 times what it is at 25 ( roughly 10-12 inches) and opens to about 15-20 at 100. If you can get to the point you are holding sub 4" consistently at 25 yards with the stock glock you will know you are doing everything right.
These are combat pistols and I say this in a lot of threads- if you want bullseye accuracy use a bullseye pistol. Or to put it another way I would not take my combat pistol to the bullseye range OR carry my bullseye pistol into combat
Little update: Shot both my G34 and my G19 from a table at about 30 yards (in really terrible wind, FWIW.) G34 group on top, G19 group on bottom. Not very scientific by any means, but it gave me a better idea of where the guns are at. I guess, I thought both guns would be better, for one. Maybe it's me and not the guns, idk. I consider myself to be a good pistol shooter, but never do any kind of "bullseye" or shooting from a rest whatsoever. What do you guys think? I can definitely live with the G34 group, but I'm not too thrilled with the G19. Maybe a match barrel is in my future....
Both of these groups are actually pretty darned good, but for several reasons I wouldn't base my assessment of either gun on them alone.
Shooting from the bench is a skill that you have to learn, just like any other skill. If you don't spend time on it, then you won't get the results you think you're getting.
I'm guessing you used the same load for both pistols. The difference in these groups could have to do with the G34 shooting that load well and the G19 doing better with something else. Have you tested ammo to find out what loads each pistol shoots best? For instance, if these are Gen4 Glocks, then I'd definitely try several 147-grain load as opposed to the 115- and 124-grain loads that seem to be everywhere.
One group from each pistol doesn't give you enough to go on. For all we know, these groups are anomalies and the G19 might outshoot the G34 over the long haul. Shoot several groups with each gun over a period of weeks if not months. Note the differences in the groups themselves and in the conditions under which you made them--ammo, weather, temperature, etc. Very quickly, you'll start to see trends emerge that have a huge impact on your understanding of what you're seeing.
Some times it makes sense to test accuracy with five-shot groups. Ten-shot groups are often a better test of the shooter than of the hardware.
If you're shooting purely to make good groups, then you need better targets. probably I do my best work with a target that has one black bullseye printed on a large sheet of buff or white paper, like a full-sheet B-8.
Try not to lose perspective. I find that it's easy to go down the rabbit hole on accuracy, and when you do, more practical stuff like speed work can suffer.
Keep us posted.
Okie John
Best way to turn a Glock into a true bullseye competition handgun is to sell it and put the money toward a true bullseye competition handgun.
Mysteryman
03-05-16, 12:50
If you are applying all fundamentals correctly the joe average glock will group under 3 inches. To really test accuracy you need to do a lot better than a group or two shot in windy conditions at a sloppy splotch of spray paint. I often shoot my glocks as far as 50 yards and at times to 100. At 50 the group size tends to be about 3-4 times what it is at 25 ( roughly 10-12 inches) and opens to about 15-20 at 100. If you can get to the point you are holding sub 4" consistently at 25 yards with the stock glock you will know you are doing everything right.
These are combat pistols and I say this in a lot of threads- if you want bullseye accuracy use a bullseye pistol. Or to put it another way I would not take my combat pistol to the bullseye range OR carry my bullseye pistol into combat
Best way to turn a Glock into a true bullseye competition handgun is to sell it and put the money toward a true bullseye competition handgun.
Here's the gems of wisdom when it comes to discussing "match performance" out of SERVICE guns. Use the right tool for the right job.
MM
Both of these groups are actually pretty darned good, but for several reasons I wouldn't base my assessment of either gun on them alone.
Shooting from the bench is a skill that you have to learn, just like any other skill. If you don't spend time on it, then you won't get the results you think you're getting.
I'm guessing you used the same load for both pistols. The difference in these groups could have to do with the G34 shooting that load well and the G19 doing better with something else. Have you tested ammo to find out what loads each pistol shoots best? For instance, if these are Gen4 Glocks, then I'd definitely try several 147-grain load as opposed to the 115- and 124-grain loads that seem to be everywhere.
One group from each pistol doesn't give you enough to go on. For all we know, these groups are anomalies and the G19 might outshoot the G34 over the long haul. Shoot several groups with each gun over a period of weeks if not months. Note the differences in the groups themselves and in the conditions under which you made them--ammo, weather, temperature, etc. Very quickly, you'll start to see trends emerge that have a huge impact on your understanding of what you're seeing.
Some times it makes sense to test accuracy with five-shot groups. Ten-shot groups are often a better test of the shooter than of the hardware.
If you're shooting purely to make good groups, then you need better targets. probably I do my best work with a target that has one black bullseye printed on a large sheet of buff or white paper, like a full-sheet B-8.
Try not to lose perspective. I find that it's easy to go down the rabbit hole on accuracy, and when you do, more practical stuff like speed work can suffer.
Keep us posted.
Okie John
That's good advice, thank you. This was shot with Black Hills 147gr.
At my next range trip I will shoot a few more with different loads.
And as I've said before, I'm not at all interested in bullseye performance out of either gun. Just interested to see if a match barrel would benefit me for the kind of shooting that I do.
That is a great rule of thumb. Although a more precise pistol will help anyone, this rule of thumb still makes sense to me.
I recently dropped KKM barrels into a G17 and G19 just for my enjoyment. I've got several hundred rounds through each and have reached the following conclusions thus far:
4. Glock ejection on each is more consistent directionally. Less lawn sprinkler. Go figure.
I am addicted to them now.
I was looking for an excuse to get a match barrel for a Glock, but recognized that it was a want, not a need, and spent my money on ammo instead of barrels. But JHC's improved extraction was enough of a tangible benefit to justify giving it a shot (see what I did there?), so I picked up a KKM drop-in. I've only had a chance to shoot it once, and I was at an indoor range so I couldn't stretch the distance to see if there was any difference in the accuracy, but I was pleasantly surprised by how well it cleaned up the extraction.
I don't think it would be a necessity for every Glock I own/buy, but I'm not disappointed with my decision. At $165 I think Bar-Sto is placed well in terms of quality for value.
The best way to make a Glock shoot like a match-grade handgun is to go out and buy a SAO match grade handgun and be done with Glock. Why people pump hundreds and thousands of dollars into a Glock is entirely beyond me. Most people are trying to compensate for software problems by spending money on hardware, instead of spending all that money on lots of ammo, lots of practice and professional training.
The best way to make a Glock shoot like a match-grade handgun is to go out and buy a SAO match grade handgun and be done with Glock. Why people pump hundreds and thousands of dollars into a Glock is entirely beyond me. Most people are trying to compensate for software problems by spending money on hardware, instead of spending all that money on lots of ammo, lots of practice and professional training.
I really don't see what value you are bringing to this thread. The OP has a GLOCK and wants to know if there is a noticeable difference with a match barrel. Telling him to sell his GLOCK to buy another gun is pointless. The OP is asking a legitimate question and has received legitimate answers. Your was not one of them.
I did some accuracy testing today with a Vickers g19 and a few extra barrels. I only used one load so it's not a broad test...
-Hornady Critical duty +p (not my carry load but it turns in nice groups)
-Range was exactly 26 yards
-Stock barrel shot ~palm sized groups (and I have large palms)
-Silencerco barrel shot ~thumb sized groups other than the first shot out of the mag which was consistently high by maybe 3 inches.
-KKM barrel was similar to the Silencerco in both precision and amount of high first shot syndrome.
Silencerco target:
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w496/heymidwayusa/scovg19-2_zpsfekc9mtv.jpg
Obviously the match barrels are a huge step up for this particular gun.
As a side note I would pass on KKM for hollow points in a defensive pistol. They have a 1-20" twist rate. 1-10" is best for terminal ballistics.
Can anyone here who has a true custom fit barrel in their Glock tell me how much that barrel exhibits first shot syndrome? Im thinking of buying another Glock and sending it to Bar-Sto. I already have a VP9.
teutonicpolymer
03-05-16, 21:20
I think you might be able to request different specs from kkm. I know people have done this for the chamber so maybe they'll cut rifling at a different twist rate. Nice groups by the way, was that offhand, benched, or rested?
And I'm not sure 1st shot difference will be that great for a Glock. Even in match guns the round that gets racked by hand has a different poi usually (maybe not as bad as say the p320 though)
I think you might be able to request different specs from kkm. I know people have done this for the chamber so maybe they'll cut rifling at a different twist rate. Nice groups by the way, was that offhand, benched, or rested?
And I'm not sure 1st shot difference will be that great for a Glock. Even in match guns the round that gets racked by hand has a different poi usually (maybe not as bad as say the p320 though)
I have a stone wall that I sit down and lean back against. I rest my arms on my knees. It's my invention but it works. Standing is way too unsteady on windy days like today. Shooting rested allows me to worry about sight alignment like a nerd.
Fouled , just curious but how does your vp9 group compared to your glocks with the match barrels?
Fouled , just curious but how does your vp9 group compared to your glocks with the match barrels?
Favorably. I have not done enough testing to say more.
I really don't see what value you are bringing to this thread. The OP has a GLOCK and wants to know if there is a noticeable difference with a match barrel. Telling him to sell his GLOCK to buy another gun is pointless. The OP is asking a legitimate question and has received legitimate answers. Your was not one of them.
I'm trying to help the OP avoid wasting a lot of money and time. The Glock is a service pistol that provides acceptable accuracy stock. The quest to turn the Glock into something it was never intended to be is pointless.
teutonicpolymer
03-06-16, 07:39
I'm trying to help the OP avoid wasting a lot of money and time. The Glock is a service pistol that provides acceptable accuracy stock. The quest to turn the Glock into something it was never intended to be is pointless.
This is such a wrong statement...
Even if there is no accuracy gain, the fact that the aftermarket barrels use regular rifling makes them useful for firing cast lead bullets which are much cheaper. On top of this there probably will be an accuracy gain, maybe not to the point where you can use the Glock in bullseye competition, but probably better than what it's at, especially with a fitted barrel.
This is such a wrong statement...
Even if there is no accuracy gain, the fact that the aftermarket barrels use regular rifling makes them useful for firing cast lead bullets which are much cheaper. On top of this there probably will be an accuracy gain, maybe not to the point where you can use the Glock in bullseye competition, but probably better than what it's at, especially with a fitted barrel.
You are simply choosing to miss the point. But that's ok. There are plenty of people out there who will spend tons of money and time trying to turn the Glock into something it is not and never will be. It's a fun hobby.
But many of us have learned through hard experience that it is all about the right tool for the right job, etc.
Not missing the point. We are talking about making a service weapon better. Fast forward to 3:53.
https://youtu.be/2_AccnRORfg?t=3m53s
Not missing the point. We are talking about making a service weapon better.
Yes, I know. And I'm simply adding my opinion, based on many years of upgrading Glocks in every way conceivable. The quest ultimately is futile. I apologize if this is a remark that is offending anyone.
A Glock is a Glock is a Glock.
Perfectly fine handgun. I'd suggest replacing the sights and then spending every penny one would spend on modifications on lots of ammo, lots of range time and lots of professional handgun training classes. The Glock trigger is able to be mastered, but it takes a lot of quality practice, lots of dry firing.
Just FYI, FWIW
If you have job where you get plenty of taxpayer ammo and range time, training by the world's best, and dedicated maintenance -- and a drop-in KKM, Jarvis, or BarSto helps the pistol shoot tighter...
well, then your return on investment just by dropping in a barrel can be pretty darn good.
I own a few Glocks. None still has an OEM barrel.
Yes, I know. And I'm simply adding my opinion, based on many years of upgrading Glocks in every way conceivable. The quest ultimately is futile. I apologize if this is a remark that is offending anyone.
A Glock is a Glock is a Glock.
Perfectly fine handgun. I'd suggest replacing the sights and then spending every penny one would spend on modifications on lots of ammo, lots of range time and lots of professional handgun training classes. The Glock trigger is able to be mastered, but it takes a lot of quality practice, lots of dry firing.
Just FYI, FWIW
You are happy with stock Glock performance. Noted.
Linebacker
03-06-16, 11:42
There is considerable nuance in most topics discussed, especially when the OP is vauge, hence some testy back-n-forth. That being said, which match barrel(s) offer greater accuracy with acceptable relaibility for personal defense usage, if any?
Even if there is no accuracy gain, the fact that the aftermarket barrels use regular rifling makes them useful for firing cast lead bullets which are much cheaper.
Yes and no. I have a Gen3 G17 that shoots better with cast bullets in the factory barrel than it shoots with custom handloads in a Wilson barrel. It's just a case of matching the load to the gun, and cast bullets have a set of rules and variables that differ completely from those of jacketed bullets. For instance, in the OEM barrel of that G17, bullets sized to 0.355" will barely stay on the paper at 50 yards, while the same bullet sized to 0.358" will outshoot any jacketed load I've tried in it.
On top of this there probably will be an accuracy gain, maybe not to the point where you can use the Glock in bullseye competition, but probably better than what it's at, especially with a fitted barrel.
Again, yes and no. Based on my experience, I'd do a lot more load testing to find a load that a given pistol shoots well before I'd buy another aftermarket barrel, ESPECIALLY if you can handload for it. I have a Gen4 G19 and a Gen4 G17 that will both regularly make 25-yard groups under 1.5" with 147-grain American Eagle FMJ. On the other hand, 115-gr. and 124-grain S&B loads are very accurate in other Glocks and in my VP9, but neither of those Gen4 pistols shoots those two loads nearly as well as it shoots AE 147.
Ammo matters, and until you've thoroughly investigated it, a match barrel doesn't make much sense.
Okie John
That being said, which match barrel(s) offer greater accuracy with acceptable relaibility for personal defense usage, if any?
Getting a good mix of reliability and accuracy depends more on the quality of the fitting than anything else. A poorly fitted barrel won't run and won't group, no matter how well-made it is.
Okie John
Linebacker
03-06-16, 12:37
Getting a good mix of reliability and accuracy depends more on the quality of the fitting than anything else. A poorly fitted barrel won't run and won't group, no matter how well-made it is.
Thank you. You hit the nail on the head with regard to the proper selection of ammo.
Thank you. You hit the nail on the head with regard to the proper selection of ammo.
You're welcome.
As for improving Glock accuracy, I'd say the steps are
Hit the gym. Focus on grip strength and upper body strength. I wish I hadn't takes so long to figure this out--it's at least as useful as everything that follows.
Dry fire. It's free, it helps you build and refine grip strength, and helps you master the trigger.
Get sights with tight light bars. Factory night sights are actually pretty good for this, but they can be a little slow until you get a feel for them.
Do a 25-cent trigger job on your pistol. Maybe add an OEM (-) connector.
Measure your groups and keep notes on your range work. Themes will emerge, and you'll have a better idea of what to work on. Also keeps you from re-inventing the wheel because you forgot something.
Test factory ammo or handloads until something stands out as a real winner at 25 yards. Then test it at 50 and 100 yards. Then buy or load 10k rounds of it, zero your pistol to hit POA at 25 yards with it, and shift your focus to speed work.
If you've done these things, then you should be able to regularly shoot groups that are no bigger than 4" at 25 yards and 8" at 50 yards with the load your pistol shoots best. If you're still not happy with accuracy, then it makes sense to get a match barrel fitted to your pistol. You'll have to repeat Step 5 above, and be content knowing that you won't see much if any difference inside of 25 yards.
Keep us posted so we can learn from your efforts.
Okie John
teutonicpolymer
03-06-16, 16:42
Yes and no. I have a Gen3 G17 that shoots better with cast bullets in the factory barrel than it shoots with custom handloads in a Wilson barrel. It's just a case of matching the load to the gun, and cast bullets have a set of rules and variables that differ completely from those of jacketed bullets. For instance, in the OEM barrel of that G17, bullets sized to 0.355" will barely stay on the paper at 50 yards, while the same bullet sized to 0.358" will outshoot any jacketed load I've tried in it.
Again, yes and no. Based on my experience, I'd do a lot more load testing to find a load that a given pistol shoots well before I'd buy another aftermarket barrel, ESPECIALLY if you can handload for it. I have a Gen4 G19 and a Gen4 G17 that will both regularly make 25-yard groups under 1.5" with 147-grain American Eagle FMJ. On the other hand, 115-gr. and 124-grain S&B loads are very accurate in other Glocks and in my VP9, but neither of those Gen4 pistols shoots those two loads nearly as well as it shoots AE 147.
Ammo matters, and until you've thoroughly investigated it, a match barrel doesn't make much sense.
Okie John
For lead bullets I mean for fouling
I can shoot lead bullets accurately in stock Glock barrels but then I need to clean the barrel more thoroughly and more frequently
Match grade Glocks are kinda pointless. It's accurate enough but 2000 dollar Glocks with gold barrels....eh..naw.
At that point I'd get a match PPC gun if you're just hole poking.
But if you can get COM on a man shape silhouette at 25 yards then...what's the point?
Match grade Glocks are kinda pointless. It's accurate enough but 2000 dollar Glocks with gold barrels....eh..naw.
At that point I'd get a match PPC gun if you're just hole poking.
But if you can get COM on a man shape silhouette at 25 yards then...what's the point?
Please watch the video below
Sorry Firefly, was thinking of a different video
https://youtu.be/p4ioCWVehtg
Not missing the point. We are talking about making a service weapon better. Fast forward to 3:53.
https://youtu.be/2_AccnRORfg?t=3m53s
I hope people do realize that this is a demonstration of a shooter's skill, not some kind of magical improvement that everyone will experience, in fact, few will.
I hope people do realize that this is a demonstration of a shooter's skill, not some kind of magical improvement that everyone will experience, in fact, few will.
In fact,Few will? Head shots at 25 yards on an IPSC target??
I fit a Bar-Sto semi drop in to one of my G17s. It will shoot 1.75" groups at 25 yards with 115 grain Blazer. Stock barrel with the same load was 3.5" at best. I've yet to see how making a pistol, or any firearm for that matter, more accurate is a bad thing. I treat it just like my other Glocks and see no drawbacks.
teutonicpolymer
03-07-16, 07:12
I fit a Bar-Sto semi drop in to one of my G17s. It will shoot 1.75" groups at 25 yards with 115 grain Blazer. Stock barrel with the same load was 3.5" at best. I've yet to see how making a pistol, or any firearm for that matter, more accurate is a bad thing. I treat it just like my other Glocks and see no drawbacks.
Exactly
And there is a big difference between a $165 barrel and buying a $2000 Glock
While my Glock is far from MOA, prone at 100, I know my hold and can ring steel.
To be fair so could anyone who has been instructed to do so.
What more do you want out of a pistol?
Anything beyond that needs a rifle and maybe friends. I referenced 2000 dollar Glocks because of all the cut up modified ones out there.
It's your gun, but I would at least ransom rest it first before swapping things out.
JMO
YMMV
Good luck with it
Increasing the mechanical precision of your gun will always improve your group size, even if your abilities are not very good.
Increasing the mechanical precision of your gun will always improve your group size, even if your abilities are not very good.
Exactly.
Increasing the mechanical precision of your gun will always improve your group size, even if your abilities are not very good.
Agreed, but a person has to weigh which is more practical and cost effective. Should a person buy an aftermarket barrel or should they invest their money in ammunition and range expenses? If you can consistently shoot 3" groups at 25 yards, the barrel may be a good investment. If accuracy is no where near 3" at 25 yards, ammunition may be a better purchase.
I have heard/read that match barrels may correct Glocks that shoot left [for a righty]. Any truth to that interwebz rumor?
I have heard/read that match barrels may correct Glocks that shoot left [for a righty]. Any truth to that interwebz rumor?
Completely untrue. The "shooting left" thing is entirely the shooter's fault and once a shooter learns to master the Glock trigger they "magically" stop shooting left.
For 98.4% of all Glock users buying a match grade barrel in the hope of improving one's shooting is trying to solve a software issue with hardware.
Chrisreedrules
04-19-16, 19:17
For 98.4% of all Glock users buying a match grade barrel in the hope of improving one's shooting is trying to solve a software issue with hardware.
This X 1,000
For 98.4% of all Glock users buying a match grade barrel in the hope of improving one's shooting is trying to solve a software issue with hardware.
One mistake I'm seeing in this discussion is portraying a shooters relative level of accuracy and the pistols' mechanical level of accuracy as substitutive factors, when they are actually additive.
If a shooter is a 4" at 25 yards kinda guy shooting a pistol mechanically capable of 4" then we have the potential for up to 8" of dispersion. If you switch to a barrel that cuts mechanical groups in half, then we now have a max of 6" of dispersion, yielding a 50% increase in mechanical accuracy, but only a 25% increase in overall accuracy. This is clearly a very simplistic example and most stock glocks obviously shoot better than 4" at 25 yards with decent ammo, but the point is a mechanical improvement to the pistol will, ceteris paribus, improve ones overall accuracy.
Is this a replacement for skill? No, of course not. Will a more skilled shooter who is capable of 2" groups shooting a 4" gun experience a greater relative increase in accuracy by doing the same barrel swap? Sure. But the point is, either way, accuracy is gained. The questions for each person to answer are where they are as a shooter, what is the incremental gain to be had and is it worth it to them at that price.
One mistake I'm seeing in this discussion is portraying a shooters relative level of accuracy and the pistols' mechanical level of accuracy as substitutive factors, when they are actually additive.
If a shooter is a 4" at 25 yards kinda guy shooting a pistol mechanically capable of 4" then we have the potential for up to 8" of dispersion. If you switch to a barrel that cuts mechanical groups in half, then we now have a max of 6" of dispersion, yielding a 50% increase in mechanical accuracy, but only a 25% increase in overall accuracy. This is clearly a very simplistic example and most stock glocks obviously shoot better than 4" at 25 yards with decent ammo, but the point is a mechanical improvement to the pistol will, ceteris paribus, improve ones overall accuracy.
Is this a replacement for skill? No, of course not. Will a more skilled shooter who is capable of 2" groups shooting a 4" gun experience a greater relative increase in accuracy by doing the same barrel swap? Sure. But the point is, either way, accuracy is gained. The questions for each person to answer are where they are as a shooter, what is the incremental gain to be had and is it worth it to them at that price.
Great post! Couldn't agree more.
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