View Full Version : Only one handgun for post apocalypse (hypothetical question)
I don't know if hypothetical questions are against the rules here, if they are, I ask the moderator to delete this post. Imagine that you live in a post-apocalyptic world like we saw in movies like "The Book of Eli" or "The Postman", and you are allowed to have only one handgun which one would you choose? I'd probably take a G17 but I'd be OK with a Beretta 92 or a SIG P226 or even a CZ75 SP01, but I am not so sure regarding the last choice. Which one would you take?
charliefox
02-25-16, 12:50
Glock 19...can't kill it.
Glock 19...can't kill it.
Pretty much end thread. Parts galore, no special tools needed, and they can use the plentiful G17 mags.
Pretty much end thread. Parts galore, no special tools needed, and they can use the plentiful G17 mags.
exactly, G19
crusader377
02-25-16, 12:59
Beretta 92
I'm not a huge fan of Glocks, but I'd also have to go with a Glock 19. Parts and mags will be plenty, and it's a great size for possible concealment.
WickedWillis
02-25-16, 14:12
Another Glock 19 vote.
Desert Eagle. You're gonna die anyways. Might as well look cool doing it.
G26. Preferably two. In each thigh rig.
I'm serious about the G26 though.
OhioFinance
02-25-16, 14:36
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
wildcard600
02-25-16, 14:40
Beretta 92 or G17/19 since there are alot of them around and mags should be easy to find.
Alternate would be a 4 inch .357 since .38 special is probably still the most common handgun cartridge in the US.
WickedWillis
02-25-16, 16:04
I don't know if hypothetical questions are against the rules here, if they are, I ask the moderator to delete this post. Imagine that you live in a post-apocalyptic world like we saw in movies like "The Book of Eli" or "The Postman", and you are allowed to have only one handgun which one would you choose? I'd probably take a G17 but I'd be OK with a Beretta 92 or a SIG P226 or even a CZ75 SP01, but I am not so sure regarding the last choice. Which one would you take?
Book of Eli he rocked an HK45.
Howdy,
I have a Glock 23 .40S&W and a Lone Wolf 40-9mm threaded conversion barrel and that would be my choice. Use the .40 barrel when you have .40 ammo then drop in the 40-9 barrel when you have 9mm ammo or want to save your .40 ammo.
Paul
Mysteryman
02-25-16, 17:19
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
The Jews and Gypsies thought the same thing in late 1930's Germany... See how that worked for them.
Glock 19
MM
titsonritz
02-25-16, 17:25
Zastava PAP M92 PV AK47 Pistol
Zastava PAP M92 PV AK47 Pistol
There's always one ... :p
controlledpairs2
02-25-16, 18:19
Desert Eagle. You're gonna die anyways. Might as well look cool doing it.
Haha can't stop laughing!!!
MtnMan6114
02-25-16, 18:49
Old school...VERY OLD SCHOOL....45 cal mutiny gun-send six or seven of them to see allah at once!
PrivateCitizen
02-25-16, 19:18
The average is 19
LibertyNeverDies
02-25-16, 19:37
Glock 23 with all 9mm conversion parts. I'd also have 40 conversion parts, 40 barrel, 357sig barrel and 40 call mags.
I'm a glock 19 guy and don't own the above setup but it things were to go that bad the extra parts would be worth the slim chance of finding ammo.
BuzzinSATX
02-25-16, 19:49
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
I see your point on numbers 2 and 3. But lots of history on our big, bad, Earth of stuff that could prove your #1 is a "never say never" kinda deal....
Glock 19...
Fuzzy-Reticle
02-25-16, 19:52
Glock 17/19 but a close second would be a Ruger MkIII with a can on it.
GUNSLINGER733
02-25-16, 19:55
My glock 17. Zombie busting machine. Lol mags would be easy to find and pick up off dead people. Lol
Howdy,
The Jews and Gypsies thought the same thing in late 1930's Germany... See how that worked for them.
Glock 19
MM
What's really scary is the fact that the leading GOP candidate spouts the same hate that come out of Hilter's mouth in the early-mid 30's.
Paul
If I could only have one gun and it had to be a pistol when the apocalypse came? It would be my XD-40.
Why? Because it's already in my safe and I have a ton of ammo for it.
After I ran out of 40 ammo, I would get whatever gun and ammo I found. By that time theres bound to be a lot of guns laying about so I would grab a gun for every caliber from .22lr to 45ACP. As ammo is found I'd have a gun for whatever I found.
MountainRaven
02-25-16, 21:51
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
It's an interesting academic exercise.
Book of Eli he rocked an HK45.
I think that Eli made the right choice.
It's an H&K, so it's practically bomb-proof - durability, reliability, and accuracy are all going to be excellent under pretty much any conditions imaginable.
In the post-Apocalypse, you're going to run out of your favorite JHPs pretty quickly and have to go to much more common ball ammo - and if you have to shoot ball ammo, 45 is the way to go. Further, 45 is very easy to reload for and I've even known HK45s to run 100% with CCI Shot Shells.
Besides, everybody knows that 9mm won't do anything but piss off yao guai and only mildly annoy a deathclaw (who is going to tear your arms off and sodomize you to death with them whether you've pissed them off or not). Probably wouldn't even defeat the shell of a mirelurk.
:P
thebarracuda
02-25-16, 21:59
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
With an attitude like that, no one is going to want to run around the barren wasteland with you.
G19 again
I'm not hanging around for that post-Apocalyse drama. Life without a decent cheeseburger once in a while isn't worth living.
But if I were only allowed one handgun (assuming I could have a rifle or two also) it would be a Glock 26.
Fluffy Bunny
02-25-16, 22:20
My choice is g19 for the simple reason that I know how to take it apart and put it together. The last thing I need to deal with in the middle of an apocalypse is a broken pistol that I don't know how to fix or even take apart for cleaning.
teutonicpolymer
02-25-16, 22:32
I don't understand this because those scenarios don't seem plausible
Glock 17 9mm.
Reliable, accurate, high-capacity standard (common) magazines, and low-maintenance designed side arm.
G17 because there won't be a need to carry concealed. Once order is restored G19.
Though a compelling argument can be made for the G21 considering hollow points may not be readily available.
As much as I love Hi Powers. I own Glocks because Never Again, to me is not a slogan.
BatteryOperated
02-26-16, 06:08
Glock G17
Glock 19. I have plenty of 15 and 33 round mags for it, G17 mags will work in it, I only need a punch to repair it, 9mm is the most common round likely to find if I run out, it's the most simple handgun to maintain, and it's damn near indestructible.
brickboy240
02-26-16, 07:55
This is easy.
3rd gen G19 or G17
...that and my AK ought to do it.
Everything else is either too complicated or less reliable, period.
SomeOtherGuy
02-26-16, 08:14
Glock 19.
Unless you assume there will be "battlefield pickups" and then you can get Beretta 92 parts and mags... but wait, if you can do that, you could just pick up a whole Beretta 92 (etc.) so it doesn't really matter what you start with.
Glock 19 for something reliable, common, easy to carry, very durable, and easy to buy and carry spare parts for. All the spare parts you'd want for a G19 (besides ammo) would fit in a 35mm film canister and weigh an ounce or less.
PrivateCitizen
02-26-16, 09:00
G17 because there won't be a need to carry concealed. Once order is restored G19.
Another point of view is that it would be wise to be concealed.
It may very well be that the gun is what makes you a target in some circumstances. In an environment of chaos I'd imagine you'd want as much flexibility as possible.
That said the actual differences between a G19 and G17 are pretty granular distinctions. I think if one says G19 they could also mean G17 or the other way around.
domestique
02-26-16, 09:06
HK P30L (9mm) or HK45 or HK45 compact: threaded barrels with LEM.
Assumptions:
- you'll run out of ammo and have to scrounge before the pistol wears out
- you will need to use it, potentially with a quick reload
- there will be times it would be advantageous to keep it covert but combat accessible
Conclusion:
Take the pistol that you shoot best that is:
- mid-sized (G19, PPQ/P99, etc)
- 9mm or 40 Cal (9 preferred)
- unquestionably reliable (Walther, HK, Older Glocks, etc)
- poly framed
- bring 6-8 mags with your ammo
Why not:
- .45? Too ammo loadout much heavier and bulky relative to others
- 1911? I love em. But most non alloy frames 1911s are a pound heavier than a PPQ, hold less ammo, etc. Even a LW commander is still a half lb heavier. You are wearing this thing!
- exotic but superior Calibers? Ammo scrounging will be a reality. (Sorry 10mm, you stay behind)
- revolvers? There is something to be said for a 4" 357, but given the scenario I want mag reloadibility. And the improved covert carry an auto offers.
- air weight or pocket autos? Ammo capacity, durability, etc
So for me it'd be a PPQ or P99. If I were a block guy a gen 2 basic 19. Maybe an early gen 3. Or the right HK. Early sig DA could be OK, but I'd prefer the P99AS for a couple of reasons.
Why P99AS over PPQ or Glock? Even in daily carry I run into situations where I have to handle routinely or leave the pistol out of the holster. (Take a dump, or sleep with pistol ready) The DA keeps combat readiness while significantly reducing odds of a shirttail ND. Yet with a 1/8" chamber check I'm back in SA if needed.
So the P99AS include the best aspects of striker pistols with a double action capability. And a SA trigger very similar to the excellent PPQ. It's weird, but good. Harder to explain than to use, which is why they are not as popular stateside.
It scares me that people actually think about these things.
In that case you probably won't want to attend one of my family's post BBQ/Beer fireside discussions.
I'll be slightly different and go with a Glock 34.
Some model of a Glock 9mm. Just too many of them around. A M9 would limit you to mostly military bases in looking for parts. Glocks are in just able all major police departments. For this it's not what is the best but what there is the most of.
Chevy trucks and AR15 would round the rest in the US. Overseas it would be AKs and probably Tacos.
My glock 17. Zombie busting machine. Lol mags would be easy to find and pick up off dead people. Lol
Or other people can pick up your mags.....just sayin.
Something in .40 with a 9mm and maybe 22 conversion barrel.
Getting a glock 19 or anything originally chambered for 9 is too limiting.
Beat Trash
02-26-16, 10:24
Glock 19/17. Wish I could be more original, but...
TacMedic556
02-26-16, 10:27
Glock 19
HK USP 9mm
Why HK? Because HK, obviously! Why USP of all HK? With fancy 3-stage recoil system it have much less stress on all components than "regular" pistols (even other HKs that use USP Compact recoil system), so it will live lot longer. Also will run better with no maintenance whatsoever.
Why 9mm? My apocalypse will happen in Europe.
domestique
02-26-16, 10:52
HK USP 9mm
Why HK? Because HK, obviously! Why USP of all HK? With fancy 3-stage recoil system it have much less stress on all components than "regular" pistols (even other HKs that use USP Compact recoil system), so it will live lot longer. Also will run better with no maintenance whatsoever.
Why 9mm? My apocalypse will happen in Europe.
With all the immigrants flooding in....... I think it already started. :(
With all the immigrants flooding in....... I think it already started. :(
Yeah, good luck with that!
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
It scares me that people actually think the way things are right now is the default state of nature and will last forever.
The Jews and Gypsies thought the same thing in late 1930's Germany... See how that worked for them.
Glock 19
MM
Or Cambodians under Communism, or Chinese under Communism, or Soviets under Communism, or Armenians under the Ottoman Turks, or Christians all over the Middle East for the last 1400 years, or Africans of nearly every tribe, religion under other tribes, religions, etc., etc.
Howdy,
What's really scary is the fact that the leading GOP candidate spouts the same hate that come out of Hilter's mouth in the early-mid 30's.
Paul
Yeah, having a secure border and scaling back the open floodgate immigration policy = Hitler.
Got it.
By that logic, every single non-Western country = Nazi Germany.
Coal Dragger
02-26-16, 13:33
Interesting mental exercise.
Short term chaos/rioting zombies choices:
1.) M4 carbine pattern in 5.56mm NATO, probably rock the Colt M4A1 SOCOM II that I already own because I know it to be a reliable rig that shoots very well. My DDM4V11 PRO would be a close second, but the heavy duty rail on the Colt and pinned front sight edge out the DD. Obviously I have plenty of good mags and ammo. Plus I reload.
2.) HK VP9 or HK P30. I'm not a Glock fan but I wouldn't turn down a G19, or G17. Any of them will be accurate enough, reliable enough, and with good jhp, powerful enough.
Once the zombie rioting hordes are dispatched, or I run out of suitable ammo for those choices I'll need longer term blasters that I can still make ammo for, and that can more reliably put food on the table. Which means they'll need to be easier on brass, and be able to shoot cast bullets.
1.) Marlin 1895 in .45-70, with a full length magazine. It'll flatten anything I need it to, even with non expanding hard cast bullets. Should work with a wide variety of powders/pressure curves.
2.) Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum, or S&W 629 .44 Magnum, either with a 4" or 5" barrel. Very effective with cast bullets, wide array of suitable powders to use for loading, not sensitive to ammo for function.
Interesting mental exercise.
Short term chaos/rioting zombies choices:
1.) M4 carbine pattern in 5.56mm NATO, probably rock the Colt M4A1 SOCOM II that I already own because I know it to be a reliable rig that shoots very well. My DDM4V11 PRO would be a close second, but the heavy duty rail on the Colt and pinned front sight edge out the DD. Obviously I have plenty of good mags and ammo. Plus I reload.
2.) HK VP9 or HK P30. I'm not a Glock fan but I wouldn't turn down a G19, or G17. Any of them will be accurate enough, reliable enough, and with good jhp, powerful enough.
Once the zombie rioting hordes are dispatched, or I run out of suitable ammo for those choices I'll need longer term blasters that I can still make ammo for, and that can more reliably put food on the table. Which means they'll need to be easier on brass, and be able to shoot cast bullets.
1.) Marlin 1895 in .45-70, with a full length magazine. It'll flatten anything I need it to, even with non expanding hard cast bullets. Should work with a wide variety of powders/pressure curves.
2.) Ruger Redhawk .44 Magnum, or S&W 629 .44 Magnum, either with a 4" or 5" barrel. Very effective with cast bullets, wide array of suitable powders to use for loading, not sensitive to ammo for function.
You aren't kidding on the Marlin 45-70. I've flattened a few elk with that exact rifle, I'm not proud of it, but, one was stem to stern full length of the body including the femur and it still made it t to the lungs. That rifle is tough on the shoulder from the bench though...
Oh, I'd choose the Beretta, I just have so much more time with it and they really do take a lot of abuse and keep going. But like others said I'll work with what ever I have to. I do love my XD too, man I've really said too much now among this crowd.
I've never shot a G19 but I'm sure it would be a non issue.
Sent from my Venue 8 3830 using Tapatalk
The one your carrying when the S hits the fan
sadly mine is a sig 290, my sig 227 is on my Night stand with my 300 blk pisol 2
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Zastava PAP M92 PV AK47 Pistol
This, with a arm brace. ^^^
Coal Dragger
02-27-16, 13:40
Wrong, two of those with arm braces on both. Firing at the same time, while wearing your 'Merican flag t-shirt.
G19 also
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Brassnbullets
02-29-16, 16:55
+1 g19
Lost River
02-29-16, 18:51
Howdy,
What's really scary is the fact that the leading GOP candidate spouts the same hate that come out of Hilter's mouth in the early-mid 30's.
Paul
That is more than a bit of an extrapolation.
I don't recall reading about the Jews in the 1930s rounding folks up, lining them up and slaughtering them with joy and fanaticism because they did not follow the Hebrew Scriptures.
I don't recall the Jews flying airplanes into buildings full of innocent people, in support of their religion.
I don't recall Jews threatening to kill every adult, child, and infant, due to the other folks not following Judaism.
I don't recall Jews in the 1930s putting people in cages, lighting them on fire and filming it for propaganda.
I don't recall Jews in the 1930s lining innocent people up and slowly cutting their heads off and filming it for propaganda.
I do recall they just wanted to be left the hell alone.
Lost River
02-29-16, 19:05
I have enough parts (springs, and stuff) to fix a glock a couple dozen times over, or a dozen Glocks once.
Therefore the answer is....
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/P1000886_zps8z093ui9.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/P1000886_zps8z093ui9.jpg.html)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/007.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/007.jpg.html)
post apocalypse pistol = Browning Buckmark target, 22 cal pistol w/silencer and mini RDS
MtnMan6114
02-29-16, 19:58
I have enough parts (springs, and stuff) to fix a glock a couple dozen times over, or a dozen Glocks once.
Therefore the answer is....
I think you need a few more mags LOL! Nice cache.
jeremy.tankersley
02-29-16, 20:00
My current carry, Sig P320 Compact. But honestly it wouldn't matter caliber, capacity, repairability, or whatever to me. I'm going to avoid conflict at all costs and preferably never have to be in a speed reload situation.
If I did end up in a gun battle, I'm willing to admit I probably wouldn't last long.
Can I shoot straight? Yep. Can I disassemble and reassemble every common handgun? Yep.
Would I crap myself when the bullets were flying? Yep.
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Fuzzy-Reticle
02-29-16, 21:07
Highpoint for the win. :neo:
Sorry, had to do it. But seriously. Glock 17/19
Calico all the way!
http://calicolightweaponsystems.com/home/uploads/images/P1080954.jpg
Simple choice...one handgun...Glock 17 and a ****ton of mags.
That is more than a bit of an extrapolation.
I don't recall reading about the Jews in the 1930s rounding folks up, lining them up and slaughtering them with joy and fanaticism because they did not follow the Hebrew Scriptures.
I don't recall the Jews flying airplanes into buildings full of innocent people, in support of their religion.
I don't recall Jews threatening to kill every adult, child, and infant, due to the other folks not following Judaism.
I don't recall Jews in the 1930s putting people in cages, lighting them on fire and filming it for propaganda.
I don't recall Jews in the 1930s lining innocent people up and slowly cutting their heads off and filming it for propaganda.
I do recall they just wanted to be left the hell alone.
Damn well said!
Also, no mass rapes wherever they set foot.
Also, no widespread calls for murdering people who merely draw the "prophet"
etc., etc.
I have enough parts (springs, and stuff) to fix a glock a couple dozen times over, or a dozen Glocks once.
Therefore the answer is....
Damn! This guy just set the bar.
Glock 17 chopped to 19 grip length x 3. Several magazines. Call it good.
PatrioticDisorder
03-01-16, 09:59
Glock 19 all the way.
Glock 19........with a Glock 23 slide, barrel and 3 magazines, in case you find more .40 than 9mm.
I'm thinking less Apocalypse and more Hiroo Oonada.
Glock 19 with USP Compact 9 coming in a close second.
And some form of rifle length gas AR or a Bolt Action.
Gunnar da Wolf
03-01-16, 17:32
1911 I can cast/load/shoot perfectly useful lead bullets for a long time
A Glock G19 MOS with Trijicon RMR, Trijicon night sights, SilencerCo threaded barrel with a SilencerCo Octane 8 HD suppressor. Exactly like the one I have. I am still waiting for the Octane to be released from NFA jail.
SamM
38117
Lost River
03-01-16, 23:20
1911 I can cast/load/shoot perfectly useful lead bullets for a long time
I used to run a Glock 21 .45 in USPSA pretty heavily back in the 90s. I shot cast SWCs almost exclusively. 60+ K of them (best estimate). While I love 1911s, a .45 Glock will run hard cast bullets with ease too.
Neither is a bad choice, but if I were to rock a 1911, I would have a series of replacement parts pre-fitted, and a small stash of tools to do the work, when needed.
I'll be the odd man out and say a Sig P226 9mm (MK25)
Think of the scenario laid out more along the lines of SHTF (stock market crash, WMD hit, whatever would cause mass panic) what gun do you carry with you daily or have in your vehicle? I roll a MK25 daily and have 2 spare mags in my car along with a Henry AR7 rifle with 3 mags and 50 rds all in a pack with the other stuff I'll need to get my ass home or least out of harms way. It's ironic that I read this today as I was having this discussion with a good friend last night and he explained some good points.
Eurodriver
03-02-16, 07:24
A Glock G19 MOS with Trijicon RMR, Trijicon night sights, SilencerCo threaded barrel with a SilencerCo Octane 8 HD suppressor. Exactly like the one I have. I am still waiting for the Octane to be released from NFA jail.
SamM
38117
Good choice.
Truthfully, anyone not picking a Glock 19 is playing favorites.
Reliability, ease of spare parts procurement, caliber availability, durability, are not beaten by any other handgun.
domestique
03-02-16, 07:43
Good choice.
Truthfully, anyone not picking a Glock 19 is playing favorites.
Reliability, ease of spare parts procurement, caliber availability, durability, are not beaten by any other handgun.
While a very nice setup. I sill go HK P30/P30L (LEM).
Equally, if not more durable (90,000+ rounds with little more then spring replacements). The Glock will have more spare parts, but unless you already have the parts sourced and stocked... thinking you are going to find parts hanging from trees is foolish depending on the scenario. I have spare parts for all of my firearms.
The deciding factor for ME, is that I shoot my P30L better then I do my G19, I prefer the hammer for AIWB carry, and have nothing but boring reliability from it.
Nice looking weapon, Eurodriver!
The G19 has been my choice of handgun for a long time. I've owned many others but keep coming back to it. This one was chosen to go along with my simple 2-rifle plan. The MOS is probably my 4th or 5th G19. It has the NY trigger module, 3.5lb connector and Maritime spring cups, just because I can. I keep as many spare Glock parts, extra mags, the spare G19 barrel and an Otis rifle/pistol cleaning kit in my range/bugout bag. The Glock compliments my Stery AUG w/1.5x optic and my Steyr Scout .308 rifle. The AUG will get a Zeiss red dot (used for close range backup) and the Scout will get a Zeiss Terra 3-9x riflescope. I may buy a better Zeiss 30mm scope once I save up more funds. Both rifles have adapters to use with my SilencerCo Omega because of the oddball Austrian threads. The quality of these rifles is amazing and rival the Glock in durability, simplicity and ease of use.
I've tried to get down to just the basics with these 3 weapons. An add-on thermal imager is all that I lack.
SamM
ramairthree
03-02-16, 10:37
Beretta M9/92 or Glock 19/17/34
Tons of mags and parts.
Mr. Greene
03-02-16, 13:19
Glock 19 vote. can use both 17/19 mags, able to fix most problems myself, can carry spare parts easily. definitely the way to go
Boba Fett v2
03-02-16, 16:18
I know this is one of those "you can only have one" questions, but I've got the two I need: Glock 19 (Gen 2) and Sig P228 (W. German). Both great shooters. Both ultra reliable. Don't ask me to pick between the two.
(also an HK fan)
Chatterbox
03-02-16, 17:35
G19. The end.
wildcard600
03-02-16, 19:52
Truthfully, anyone not picking a Glock 19 is playing favorites.
Reliability, ease of spare parts procurement, caliber availability, durability, are not beaten by any other handgun.
I don't think alternative choices are playing favorites, just that people might have more experience/shoot better with other pistols. I hate Glocks personally, can't shoot them worth a shit compared to an M9 or USP. All things being equal, i would take my USP 9 over any Glock for SHTF because i simply shoot the best with it and its built like a tank. The unfortunate reality however is that finding mags and parts (even though the USP isn't likely to need any besides springs) is hard enough now, let alone how rare they might be if shit falls apart.
So for the sake of this thought experiment I would choose the M9/92FS or G17/19 due to the availability of mags and parts. Truthfully I would rather have the M9 since I can shoot them pretty well now, while the Glock would definitely take some practice to get used to (which may not be possible).
ramairthree
03-02-16, 20:02
I actually think the number of Berettas and mags have an edge on the 19.
Am I off?
Glock 9 and beretta m9/92 were my two choices.
Parts availability? You guys plan on buying off Brownells once the world ends?
Why not just pick up the next gun you find?
Linebacker
03-02-16, 20:52
I actually think the number of Berettas and mags have an edge on the 19.
Am I off?
Glock 9 and beretta m9/92 were my two choices.
Umm, yes. Unless you break into a major military armory. Otherwise, it ain't even close IMHO.
jackblack73
03-02-16, 21:00
I actually think the number of Berettas and mags have an edge on the 19.
Am I off?
Glock 9 and beretta m9/92 were my two choices.
Not in my experience. I don't know anyone that owns the Beretta, but the Glock 19 is plentiful.
I would have said the Glock 19 also, but agree with those that say Glock 23 with a 9mm conversion barrel to have access to more ammo. That happens to be what I own also.
Linebacker
03-02-16, 21:03
Not in my experience. I don't know anyone that owns the Beretta, but the Glock 19 is plentiful.
I would have said the Glock 19 also, but agree with those that say Glock 23 with a 9mm conversion barrel to have access to more ammo. That happens to be what I own also.
How does the 23 w/9mm shoot vs. a 19? Materially less recoil?
wildcard600
03-02-16, 21:49
Parts availability? You guys plan on buying off Brownells once the world ends?
Why not just pick up the next gun you find?
Because the next gun you find might be a Hi-Point .380 vs. possibly finding another M9 or G17 and getting yours back up and running ?
jackblack73
03-02-16, 23:08
How does the 23 w/9mm shoot vs. a 19? Materially less recoil?
Not sure why you think there would be a difference. There's none that I can tell.
MountainRaven
03-02-16, 23:10
Good choice.
Truthfully, anyone not picking a Glock 19 is playing favorites.
Reliability, ease of spare parts procurement, caliber availability, durability, are not beaten by any other handgun.
That thing isn't even loaded, is it? They never are.
http://www.imfdb.org/images/3/3d/HK45_Eli.jpg
Parts availability? You guys plan on buying off Brownells once the world ends?
Good point. If you need it, get it NOW, before the world goes to Hell in a handbasket
Why not just pick up the next gun you find?
Because the only way you're gonna pick up the next gun you find is when you take it off the next person you shoot. After a battle, the victors will strip the guns, ammo, gear & food off the vanquished. There weren't many firearms laying around in the post apocalyptic South after General Sherman finished his march to the sea
Howdy,
I have a Glock 23 .40S&W and a Lone Wolf 40-9mm threaded conversion barrel and that would be my choice. Use the .40 barrel when you have .40 ammo then drop in the 40-9 barrel when you have 9mm ammo or want to save your .40 ammo.
Paul
Will a 9mm conversion for a G35 also work in a G22? I have a G22 & G35 It would be a toss up. I'd like to buy a threaded drop in 9mm bbl for one of them.
I have a G19 and G17, but I think that as long as you have a quality gun in good condition/properly maintained, with spare parts, using quality ammo, that works for you, you will be good.
Some calibers may be better than others in terms of availability, but what you have is what you have, at least for the initial stages.
Will a 9mm conversion for a G35 also work in a G22? I have a G22 & G35 It would be a toss up. I'd like to buy a threaded drop in 9mm bbl for one of them.
Yes the conversion barrel for a 35 will work in a 22. I carry a Glock 17after market slide that was made for RMR with a Glock 34 barrel in it as my EDC.
I have a G19 and G17, but I think that as long as you have a quality gun in good condition/properly maintained, with spare parts, using quality ammo, that works for you, you will be good.
Some calibers may be better than others in terms of availability, but what you have is what you have, at least for the initial stages.
I agree. I have what I have. I have the .40 Gkocks because it is what I am issued and carry at work. I have more mags and ammo than I could carry.
Yes the conversion barrel for a 35 will work in a 22. I carry a Glock 17after market slide that was made for RMR with a Glock 34 barrel in it as my EDC.
Thanks I thought it would work.
ExplorinInTheWoods
03-03-16, 20:14
I'm rolling with my gen3 glock 17, had it tuned up by the glock smith in ft worth, he did a good job on it.
DireStraits
03-04-16, 07:06
G19 as for the reasons mentioned on Page 1. That being said, it wasn't one of your original choices, so out of the options you listed: G17.
Cheers.
Boba Fett v2
03-04-16, 08:57
Hasn't failed me yet...
http://imageshack.com/a/img661/3518/78IK8A.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img537/4258/PiNYJe.jpg
Howdy,
Will a 9mm conversion for a G35 also work in a G22? I have a G22 & G35 It would be a toss up. I'd like to buy a threaded drop in 9mm bbl for one of them.
Yes it wil, but it will NOT fit a 23.
UPDATE:
I recently bought a LW 40-9mm conversion barrel for my Glock 35 so now my Zombie Invasion gun will be:
My Glock 35 and a 9mm conversion barrel AND my G23 and the conversion barrel.
Paul
P.S. I know the "rules" says one gun but hey! It's Zombies so I'm bending the rules.
Glock 26 because: I can use every 9mm glock magazine made. It conceals well and I shoot it just as well as a full size. Parts galore, magazines galore, easy to maintain.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
Howdy,
Yes it wil, but it will NOT fit a 23.
UPDATE:
I recently bought a LW 40-9mm conversion barrel for my Glock 35 so now my Zombie Invasion gun will be:
My Glock 35 and a 9mm conversion barrel AND my G23 and the conversion barrel.
Paul
P.S. I know the "rules" says one gun but hey! It's Zombies so I'm bending the rules.
Did you just drop the bbl in and use G17 mags?
Alaskapopo
03-05-16, 23:13
Glock 19.
Another vote for the Glock 19. Everyone should have at least 2 on hand along with whatever else they want.
OhioFinance
03-06-16, 15:29
12 pages of everyone saying Glock. Huge surprise. With this thread, the conversion to TOS is complete.
QuickStrike
03-06-16, 16:50
After reading that battlefield vegas thread on TOS, I wouldn't mind having a sig p226, glock 19/ 17, or beretta 92D.
Glock 19, most common caliber thru out the world + 17 mags work in it too, every country on planet has glocks
whatthepuck
03-06-16, 20:24
I really, really like the sig m11-a1. It's the one pistol that really feels like it was made for my hand (and yes I've owned M&Ps, Ppqs and VP9s). However, as much as I like the m11-a1, I have a safe full of g19s, and I'd certainly pick up one of them and head out into the wastelands feeling well-armed.
kihnspiracy
03-07-16, 00:42
HK USP9.
12 pages of everyone saying Glock. Huge surprise. With this thread, the conversion to TOS is complete.
Not true. I said Desert Eagle. Also the thread is 3 pages long with the appropriate display settings. :)
I would have to go with the HK USP9 tactical, with jet funnel and LEM/match hybrid trigger. Oh, and about 5 magazines.
I would go with either a Colt 1911, or a Walther PPQ, depending on what's in my holster at the time the balloon goes up
Heckler & Koch Mk23. Accurate and completely indestructible and has the additional uses of:
1. A hammer for building or striking
2. An anchor for your boat if Obama can't stop the oceans from rising.
Adrenaline_6
03-07-16, 18:02
Not bashing the G19 at all but is there a reason why people would choose a compact model over a full size in a post apocalyptic situation? Concealed carry is not really a requirement and the longer barrel models are inherently more accurate.
I would choose my P30 btw, it's what I got and it's built like a tank,
Not limited to full size mags
WickedWillis
03-07-16, 18:09
Not bashing the G19 at all but is there a reason why people would choose a compact model over a full size in a post apocalyptic situation? Concealed carry is not really a requirement and the longer barrel models are inherently more accurate.
I would choose my P30 btw, it's what I got and it's built like a tank,
No magazine limitations, conceals very well, shoots like a full-size, can use various Glock parts, just a few of why I chose it.
Adrenaline_6
03-07-16, 18:12
Not limited to full size mags
I guess that's a valid reason, although I don't think anyone would be wearing out many magazines considering bullet, primer, powder and ammo production has essentially stopped.
Not bashing the G19 at all but is there a reason why people would choose a compact model over a full size in a post apocalyptic situation? Concealed carry is not really a requirement and the longer barrel models are inherently more accurate.
I would choose my P30 btw, it's what I got and it's built like a tank,
Fits my hand better?
Adrenaline_6
03-07-16, 18:26
Fits my hand better?
Best reason so far. That's why I like my P30.
Not bashing the G19 at all but is there a reason why people would choose a compact model over a full size in a post apocalyptic situation? Concealed carry is not really a requirement
Because if I'm limited to one handgun, it means I was not at home when everything fell apart. It means I was out & about and the handgun I had on me was likely concealed
the longer barrel models are inherently more accurate
Not true
Not bashing the G19 at all but is there a reason why people would choose a compact model over a full size in a post apocalyptic situation? Concealed carry is not really a requirement and the longer barrel models are inherently more accurate.
With my 4.5" SilencerCo threaded barrel the G17 offers no significant differences over my G19 MOS. It takes G17 magazines. Personally, I shoot the smaller Glocks better than even the long slides.
SamM
I would have to go with the HK USP9 tactical, with jet funnel and LEM/match hybrid trigger. Oh, and about 5 magazines.
What? Are you serious??
Did you even read post #68??
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?180883-Only-one-handgun-for-post-apocalypse-(hypothetical-question)&p=2276867#post2276867
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/007.jpg
The man just raised the bar. We all have to step up our game!
I want to see someone load all those mags and carry them around.
Also, I think the better thread would be: In the event of the apocalypse, is there anyone who would want something other than a G19? It's not even my favorite by far, but I have to admit that if I was hitting the road not looking back, and only taking one, it's got by far the most going for it.
Another thread suggestion: If you could only own say, five or six guns. What do you pick and which roles and capabilities do you prioritize? That would probably provoke some interesting discussion.
YMMV
Only 6 guns?
Glock 17
MK. 12
SR25 ECC
Ruger 1022
Really nice bolt action
Spare Mk. 12
Would suck to be so limited but could live with it
MountainRaven
03-07-16, 22:24
Six guns is easy. Like stupid easy.
Glock 17
Glock 19
W.C. 1911
Steyr Scout
7.62x39mm AK
Merkel 1622
Adrenaline_6
03-07-16, 22:26
Because if I'm limited to one handgun, it means I was not at home when everything fell apart. It means I was out & about and the handgun I had on me was likely conceaed
Ok...I See where you are going with that...but then you are also saying, that you were lucky enough to come across a place that had a gun, but unlike your place, and mine, and most every member here, that they only had one gun there. A possibility but not too probable. I think the OP was just creating a hypothetical situation that you could only pick one, not find one.
Not true
This is new to me. Why do they even make a full size then...and why do most competition shooters use them?
wildcard600
03-07-16, 22:29
Six guns ?
USP 9mm
Ruger LCR 357
BCM 11.5
BCM 16 middy
AK 7.62
SR-25
wildcard600
03-07-16, 22:32
Ok...I See where you are going with that...but then you are also saying, that you were lucky enough to come across a place that had a gun, but unlike your place, and mine, and most every member here, that they only had one gun there. A possibility but not too probable. I think the OP was just creating a hypothetical situation that you could only pick one, not find one.
This is new to me. Why do they even make a full size then...and why do most competition shooters use them?
Barrel length has little to do with mechanical accuracy. Longer sight radius is usually why longer guns are viewed as more accurate.
Six guns is easy. Like stupid easy.
Glock 17
Glock 19
W.C. 1911
Steyr Scout
7.62x39mm AK
Merkel 1622
Ok my bad. Haha let's make it four then.
G19
SR25 ACC
10/22
870 Police Magnum
G19 because every reason everybody already knows. I can make a 16" SR25 fill the roles of long range precision, and close to medium range battle. Shotgun and .22 for utility.
Adrenaline_6
03-07-16, 22:53
Barrel length has little to do with mechanical accuracy. Longer sight radius is usually why longer guns are viewed as more accurate.
Not trying to be a wise ass at all, but you do know that in a roundabout way, you just confirmed that they are inherently more accurate. I never mentioned why, just that they are.
Like I said before, I have no problems with anyone picking the G19, but the reasons given so far, I think, don't really make sense,
Your not really going to need parts - ammo is very finite in this situation
Concealed - not necessary whatsoever in this situation
Magazine longevity- again, not enough ammo to make a difference. - someone posted previously that he competes with just a few mags and hasn't had to change springs yet.
I guess f something broke, spare parts would be great to find , but a well maintained Glock or HK, etc should do just fine in this situation and should easily outlast the limited ammo supply.
In the small to none chance that you are needing to shoot your pistol that much, you will most likely not be living too long to need the spare parts to begin with. The odds would not be with you at all.
Not trying to be a wise ass at all, but you do know that in a roundabout way, you just confirmed that they are inherently more accurate. I never mentioned why, just that they are.
Not really inherently more accurate. Inherently easier to shoot accurately.
wildcard600
03-07-16, 23:31
Not trying to be a wise ass at all, but you do know that in a roundabout way, you just confirmed that they are inherently more accurate. I never mentioned why, just that they are.
Again, mechanical accuracy is not dependent on barrel length. I think you are confusing a hardware problem with one of software. Just because a certain gun is easier to shoot accurately than another does not make it inherently more accurate than the first. That is, unless the definition of inherent has changed since I last checked.
Easy...
Edmo
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l223/Edmo_03/gun%20stuff/image_zpsdae20c8d.jpg
davebee456
03-08-16, 02:21
Glock 19.
or
Glock 17.
Six guns is too easy. It would be much harder to choose only one. (Still would go G19).
Glock 19
KAC SR15 10.5
870 Police Mag
KAC SR25
Wilson CQB
Lightweight bolt gun, probably Remington 700 in 243
Adrenaline_6
03-08-16, 07:53
Not really inherently more accurate. Inherently easier to shoot accurately.
Again, mechanical accuracy is not dependent on barrel length. I think you are confusing a hardware problem with one of software. Just because a certain gun is easier to shoot accurately than another does not make it inherently more accurate than the first. That is, unless the definition of inherent has changed since I last checked.
Now you are word playing. I get it. I will give you that. You know what I meant, but I digress. Regardless. In the hands of most people. The full size option, whatever brand of choice it may be, would be a better choice imho in this post-apocalyptic scenario.
Now, a simple "I shoot better with the 19 than the 17" or "it feels better in my hand" or a combo of the two or something similar, I can and will totally accept as valid. The other reasons I previously mentioned, I see them more as someone trying to convince others that their choice is the best choice.
MountainRaven
03-08-16, 09:28
Six guns is easy. Like stupid easy.
Glock 17
Glock 19
W.C. 1911
Steyr Scout
7.62x39mm AK
Merkel 1622
In retrospect, I suppose it wasn't that easy. I think I'd change my 7.62 AK to a 5.45 AK for this list.
For a four gun list:
G19
WC 1911
7.62x39 AK
Merkel 1622
Honestly, the real trick is a two or three gun list.
beastonakron
03-08-16, 09:29
G19 or G17
Howdy,
Barrel length can and does effect accuracy in a semi-auto pistol.
For example:
The muzzle end of the barrel has a certain amount of play/clearance between the barrel and the slide or barrel bushing.
We will use .050" for this "example". Without doing the math because I'm: (pick one )
a.) Too dumb.
b.) Too lazy.
c.) All of the above.
You have a fixed pivot point at the chamber end of your barrel but the muzzle end will move around .050". The longer the barrel, the shorter distance in degrees from the fixed centerline of the bore will the travel of the moveable centerline of the barrel bore. Shorter barrel will result in a larger degree of movement from the centerline.
I'm trying to do three things at once so I hope you are following my train of thought.
Now extend your "imaginary" line out to 25 yards and the travel from the static centerline will increase dramatically for the shorter barrel when compared to a longer barrel.
Add the same line of think to sights on a firearm and it's easy to see why a longer barrel gun is considered more accurate.
I have a Glock 23 and 35 and I shoot the G35 more accurately than I do the G23. I credit this to the G35 having a longer barrel and length of the sights.
If barrel length didn't have any effect on accuracy in a semi-auto pistol then why do the top USPSA, IDPA, Bull's Eye shooters run as long of barrel as the rules will allow instead of a subcompact length barrel?
Team Glock's IDPA gun is a G34 9mm instead of a G19 or G26 and there's a reason why.
Paul
Primus Pilum
03-08-16, 13:48
One handgun with Ammo & Mags not a consideration?
Easy, USP45 or USP45C. There is not a more reliable/durable handgun on the planet.
Open up the list, it is easy.
1. Glock 17
2. Glock 34
3. Glock 19
4. PTR 32 SBR 7.62 x 39
5. PTR 91
6. Ruger 1022
Open up the list, it is easy.
1. Glock 17
2. Glock 34
3. Glock 19
4. PTR 32 SBR 7.62 x 39
5. PTR 91
6. Ruger 1022
Why PTR?
Because the ones I have run great, 2 rifles same manual of arms. Besides I have seen G3's in Afrika that I never thought would fire, run great despite 40 years of no TLC.
ColtSeavers
03-08-16, 15:35
My 6" SS GP100 .357 GP100.
Can cast my own bullets, hell even use black powder, no magazines to worry about, brass collection is not a concern and it was my first gun, it and I are one.
Apologies if revolvers are not allowed.
My 6" SS GP100 .357 GP100.
Can cast my own bullets, hell even use black powder, no magazines to worry about, brass collection is not a concern and it was my first gun, it and I are one.
Apologies if revolvers are not allowed.
I feel the same way about my 6" Cougar, so scratch the G17 and on goes the Cougar. Which for those that are too young to know was a conversion back in the day where a Colt Python barrel was put on a Ruger security 6
Coal Dragger
03-08-16, 17:25
My 6" SS GP100 .357 GP100.
Can cast my own bullets, hell even use black powder, no magazines to worry about, brass collection is not a concern and it was my first gun, it and I are one.
Apologies if revolvers are not allowed.
I think revolvers should be allowed, and in fact from a long term use standpoint make a hell of a lot more sense than an auto.
1.) Not ammo sensitive. Even if you had to load cartridges with black powder a wheel gun will still go bang and continue to function. For loading your own you have much more leeway in what you can use for components especially powder. Same for bullets, any shape you want is OK in a wheel gun. Want to cast bullets and lube them with lard if you have to? A revolver will probably still work. Try that with a semi-auto.
2.) No magazines to break, lose, or have wear out. Long term this is a big advantage.
3.) Doesn't fling your potentially precious brass all over the place perhaps never to be seen again much less reloaded. If you want longevity you have to have ammo, if you loose your main ammo component how is that going to work out for you?
4.) Super reliable ignition. Guess what that big ass hammer and mainspring mean for you? If you said primers that get hit really damn hard and then go bang, give yourself a cigar. That big ass hammer also means you can thumb it back as needed for more precise work if you have time.
5.) Accuracy. Sorry I love semi-autos, but dollar for dollar a good revolver is in my experience the more accurate weapon. Between a typically much better single action trigger, adjustable sights, and a fixed barrel they tend to shoot better than most semi-autos. If you are counting on this sidearm to maybe also put meat in your stew pot then this has to be factored in.
6.) More powerful. I know everyone on here will disagree, because all handguns suck when it comes to this nebulous concept of "stopping power", I'll simply point out that magnum revolver cartridges with a caliber over .357 seem to do a bang up job of flattening game animals. In some cases I'd far prefer one to our beloved 5.56mm round if anchoring a tasty deer sized critter is in the cards. A .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt (loaded for a Ruger), or .454 Casull can deliver a lot of power and penetration to a target that a semi-auto just can't match.
The biggest downsides to the revolver are really only a downside if your view of the apocalypse is some sort of Mad Max scenario or zombies and other nonsense. No a wheel gun doesn't carry as much ammunition on board compared to a semi-auto. Yes a revolver is slower to reload. Yes the mechanism of a revolver is more complex than something like a Glock (although quality revolvers almost never break...), and can't be worked on by an untrained individual. Assuming your goal is to not get into fights all the time while outnumbered (a good way to die regardless of your armament), and is instead to have a tool to help you survive I think a revolver is a fine choice. My only disagreement is that I think a big bore revolver has more merit in this area than a medium bore.
ColtSeavers
03-08-16, 18:14
Forgot to mention that can also shoot .38 special and use it's brass as well.
I think revolvers should be allowed, and in fact from a long term use standpoint make a hell of a lot more sense than an auto.
1.) Not ammo sensitive. Even if you had to load cartridges with black powder a wheel gun will still go bang and continue to function. For loading your own you have much more leeway in what you can use for components especially powder. Same for bullets, any shape you want is OK in a wheel gun. Want to cast bullets and lube them with lard if you have to? A revolver will probably still work. Try that with a semi-auto.
2.) No magazines to break, lose, or have wear out. Long term this is a big advantage.
3.) Doesn't fling your potentially precious brass all over the place perhaps never to be seen again much less reloaded. If you want longevity you have to have ammo, if you loose your main ammo component how is that going to work out for you?
4.) Super reliable ignition. Guess what that big ass hammer and mainspring mean for you? If you said primers that get hit really damn hard and then go bang, give yourself a cigar. That big ass hammer also means you can thumb it back as needed for more precise work if you have time.
5.) Accuracy. Sorry I love semi-autos, but dollar for dollar a good revolver is in my experience the more accurate weapon. Between a typically much better single action trigger, adjustable sights, and a fixed barrel they tend to shoot better than most semi-autos. If you are counting on this sidearm to maybe also put meat in your stew pot then this has to be factored in.
6.) More powerful. I know everyone on here will disagree, because all handguns suck when it comes to this nebulous concept of "stopping power", I'll simply point out that magnum revolver cartridges with a caliber over .357 seem to do a bang up job of flattening game animals. In some cases I'd far prefer one to our beloved 5.56mm round if anchoring a tasty deer sized critter is in the cards. A .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt (loaded for a Ruger), or .454 Casull can deliver a lot of power and penetration to a target that a semi-auto just can't match.
The biggest downsides to the revolver are really only a downside if your view of the apocalypse is some sort of Mad Max scenario or zombies and other nonsense. No a wheel gun doesn't carry as much ammunition on board compared to a semi-auto. Yes a revolver is slower to reload. Yes the mechanism of a revolver is more complex than something like a Glock (although quality revolvers almost never break...), and can't be worked on by an untrained individual. Assuming your goal is to not get into fights all the time while outnumbered (a good way to die regardless of your armament), and is instead to have a tool to help you survive I think a revolver is a fine choice. My only disagreement is that I think a big bore revolver has more merit in this area than a medium bore.
The only real advantage of the revolver is that it doesn't use mags that can be lost; but this is a pro/con due the revolvers lack of capacity and slower reload. For anyone who has stocked up on mags, this is a non-issue with a semi.
Accuracy, power, reliability, those are all on par with a good semiauto e.g. Glock/Sig/HK.
But I will agree that a revolver is pretty much fool-proof and a very good weapon for shtf situations. I just don't think its superior to a good semiauto.
Coal Dragger
03-08-16, 18:58
The only real advantage of the revolver is that it doesn't use mags that can be lost; but this is a pro/con due the revolvers lack of capacity and slower reload. For anyone who has stocked up on mags, this is a non-issue with a semi.
Accuracy, power, reliability, those are all on par with a good semiauto e.g. Glock/Sig/HK.
But I will agree that a revolver is pretty much fool-proof and a very good weapon for shtf situations. I just don't think its superior to a good semiauto.
If you want to secure game animals with it, a magnum revolver is so superior to a semi-auto there is no comparison.
A full power .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or .45 Colt will flatten anything up to and including elk with good shot placement and can also defend adequately against large predators if you live someplace that is a concern. You're only realistically going to get one shot on a game animal before they take off like a top fuel dragster, so it better have enough oomph and penetration to get the job done.
Boba Fett v2
03-08-16, 19:01
I think revolvers should be allowed, and in fact from a long term use standpoint make a hell of a lot more sense than an auto.
1.) Not ammo sensitive. Even if you had to load cartridges with black powder a wheel gun will still go bang and continue to function. For loading your own you have much more leeway in what you can use for components especially powder. Same for bullets, any shape you want is OK in a wheel gun. Want to cast bullets and lube them with lard if you have to? A revolver will probably still work. Try that with a semi-auto.
2.) No magazines to break, lose, or have wear out. Long term this is a big advantage.
3.) Doesn't fling your potentially precious brass all over the place perhaps never to be seen again much less reloaded. If you want longevity you have to have ammo, if you loose your main ammo component how is that going to work out for you?
4.) Super reliable ignition. Guess what that big ass hammer and mainspring mean for you? If you said primers that get hit really damn hard and then go bang, give yourself a cigar. That big ass hammer also means you can thumb it back as needed for more precise work if you have time.
5.) Accuracy. Sorry I love semi-autos, but dollar for dollar a good revolver is in my experience the more accurate weapon. Between a typically much better single action trigger, adjustable sights, and a fixed barrel they tend to shoot better than most semi-autos. If you are counting on this sidearm to maybe also put meat in your stew pot then this has to be factored in.
6.) More powerful. I know everyone on here will disagree, because all handguns suck when it comes to this nebulous concept of "stopping power", I'll simply point out that magnum revolver cartridges with a caliber over .357 seem to do a bang up job of flattening game animals. In some cases I'd far prefer one to our beloved 5.56mm round if anchoring a tasty deer sized critter is in the cards. A .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt (loaded for a Ruger), or .454 Casull can deliver a lot of power and penetration to a target that a semi-auto just can't match.
The biggest downsides to the revolver are really only a downside if your view of the apocalypse is some sort of Mad Max scenario or zombies and other nonsense. No a wheel gun doesn't carry as much ammunition on board compared to a semi-auto. Yes a revolver is slower to reload. Yes the mechanism of a revolver is more complex than something like a Glock (although quality revolvers almost never break...), and can't be worked on by an untrained individual. Assuming your goal is to not get into fights all the time while outnumbered (a good way to die regardless of your armament), and is instead to have a tool to help you survive I think a revolver is a fine choice. My only disagreement is that I think a big bore revolver has more merit in this area than a medium bore.
Holy shit that's a lot of words.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
Coal Dragger
03-08-16, 19:09
The classic word fort. Impregnable.
If you want to secure game animals with it, a magnum revolver is so superior to a semi-auto there is no comparison.
A full power .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or .45 Colt will flatten anything up to and including elk with good shot placement and can also defend adequately against large predators if you live someplace that is a concern. You're only realistically going to get one shot on a game animal before they take off like a top fuel dragster, so it better have enough oomph and penetration to get the job done.
Well, the Desert Eagle also fires 41Mag, 44Mag, and 50AE so that point is moot.
Coal Dragger
03-08-16, 20:46
The Desert Eagle is also roughly the same weight as a carbine, has a grip that is ridiculously large, can't shoot cast bullets (gas operated), can't handle long for caliber bullets, and has a rubbish trigger.
Not to mention that if you want to look at really big bores, the wheel gun still reigns over the semi-auto. The .50AE is a runt compared to the .454 Casull, .475 Linebaugh, .500 Wyoming Express, .500 JRH, and .500 Linebaugh. I'd also mention the S&W X frame calibers, but like the Desert Eagle are enormous to the point of impracticality.
crusader377
03-08-16, 20:51
My four guns for a survival type scenario are the following:
1) M4 pattern carbine with Aimpoint: Very good defensive carbine and I could also harvest any game readily in my location (TN)
2) quality AK in 7.62x39: I'm stack very deep with this platform and again it is a very solid defensive carbine choice, Also a good choice for a cache weapon.
3) CZ 455 in .22lr: Can harvest small/medium game very readily. Also if you are firing 60gr sub-sonic rounds you can do that harvesting without attracting much attention to yourself
4) Beretta 92: I know this platform very well and it is my most reliable pistol and it is a well supported pistol.
If I'm allowed 2 more firearms these would be next on my list:
5) Second M4 clone with red-dot. (By the end of the year this will be exchanged for a BCM Recce style carbine with a 1x4 optic)
6) Beretta 92 Compact
Not bashing the G19 at all but is there a reason why people would choose a compact model over a full size in a post apocalyptic situation? Concealed carry is not really a requirement and the longer barrel models are inherently more accurate.
I would choose my P30 btw, it's what I got and it's built like a tank,
I still may want to conceal.
That many more magazines will fit in it.
But I wouldn't go down to a G26, for even more magazines, I'd rather have the barrel and slide length (sight radius) of the 19
I guess that's a valid reason, although I don't think anyone would be wearing out many magazines considering bullet, primer, powder and ammo production has essentially stopped.
Magazines are not overly difficult to break or lose, or not have with you in quantity when you somehow only have one gun
My tb mk25. Since I no longer have a g19 lmao
Howdy,
What's really scary is the fact that the leading GOP candidate spouts the same hate that come out of Hilter's mouth in the early-mid 30's.
Paul
Although no way as scary as the socialist anti freedom and liberty Hillary or Bernie. Looking at Germany today, in retrospect the Germans would have been better served by Hitler.
Revolvers ... When they quit, MAJOR PROBLEMS, I can drop in new parts on an auto loader ... Revolvers not so easy
Coal Dragger
03-10-16, 15:43
With reasonable maintenance it would take several life times to break a large frame revolver. Particularly one of the big Rugers that use coil springs. In fact spring breakage is probably the biggest failure point on most handguns. Coil springs in a revolver are not overly difficult to replace if you're careful and have the right tools. Guns like the Ruger don't require hand fit parts, so it is possible to keep spares like bolts and hands.
To be honest a quality semi-auto or revolver of robust construction should out last all of us with reasonable care. Even reasonable care you could render during the zombie apocalypse of doom with limited resources. I'll bet both could even survive hippies. Nothing is more terrifying than damn dirty hippies.
Mysteryman
03-11-16, 23:21
With reasonable maintenance it would take several life times to break a large frame revolver. Particularly one of the big Rugers that use coil springs. In fact spring breakage is probably the biggest failure point on most handguns. Coil springs in a revolver are not overly difficult to replace if you're careful and have the right tools. Guns like the Ruger don't require hand fit parts, so it is possible to keep spares like bolts and hands.
To be honest a quality semi-auto or revolver of robust construction should out last all of us with reasonable care. Even reasonable care you could render during the zombie apocalypse of doom with limited resources. I'll bet both could even survive hippies. Nothing is more terrifying than damn dirty hippies.
Finding parts for an auto is far easier than a revolver simply because revolvers are outdated and far less common. The pros of a Ruger revolver are quickly outweighed by the downsides of all revolvers. Heavy, large, complex, and pathetic capacity. Add in difficult reloads, less common calibre(think ammo availability), inability to mount a light or suppressor, inability to install night sights, nowhere near lefty friendly. The need for special tools is a huge negative as is the parts count.
MM
Coal Dragger
03-12-16, 00:04
The need for parts for an auto or revolver is negative either way in some scenario where society has devolved into Mad Max nonsense.
If you're truly concerned with ammo availability long term then you need to be capable of reloading ammunition. Revolvers are a far easier proposition for this, easier on brass, easier to recover your brass, easier to make ammo that will work in the gun.
Devolving even further into the post apocalyptic future we better get used to the idea of flintlocks. When there's no cartridge ammo to be had or that is functional, nor primers, or smokeless powder, or jacketed bullets a good flintlock can still be viable.
Ok, 6 mags to make it even.
Anything in a 4tay, there will be zombies. Zombies hate 4tays
Handguns:
Semi Autos: Glocks, beretta 92's and 1911's, in that order since all three are super common and not that hard to work on.
Revolvers: Ruger revolvers with coil springs. .357 mag or 44 mag. Will run with reloads. The Old Army, Ruger's cap and ball revolver with coil springs would be a good choice as well. Apparently you can make your own percussion caps. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/842064/forster-tap-o-cap-11-percusion-cap-maker
AR-15's with optics. 1-4x or Acogs - Aimpoints are great but you will run out of batteries eventually.
Outside the U.S, an AK makes sense but the AR is americas rifle in the 21st century.
.22 bolt guns
Common caliber bolt guns or lever guns- easier to run on reloads. (30-06, 270, 308, 243, 30-30) what ever is common in your area. Where I grew up, 30-06, 30-30 and 35 Remington. Where I live now, .270, 243, 7 mag and 30-30.
Suppressors for the rifles, especially the .22's.
ColtSeavers
03-12-16, 01:52
Finding parts for an auto is far easier than a revolver simply because revolvers are outdated and far less common. The pros of a Ruger revolver are quickly outweighed by the downsides of all revolvers. Heavy, large, complex, and pathetic capacity. Add in difficult reloads, less common calibre(think ammo availability), inability to mount a light or suppressor, inability to install night sights, nowhere near lefty friendly. The need for special tools is a huge negative as is the parts count.
MM
All sorts of fail right here.
A CZ-75 variant in 9MM, plus the .22LR Kadet Kit conversion unit.
MountainRaven
03-12-16, 15:51
The need for parts for an auto or revolver is negative either way in some scenario where society has devolved into Mad Max nonsense.
If you're truly concerned with ammo availability long term then you need to be capable of reloading ammunition. Revolvers are a far easier proposition for this, easier on brass, easier to recover your brass, easier to make ammo that will work in the gun.
Devolving even further into the post apocalyptic future we better get used to the idea of flintlocks. When there's no cartridge ammo to be had or that is functional, nor primers, or smokeless powder, or jacketed bullets a good flintlock can still be viable.
At which point in time, you might find yourself preferring the use of a bow (the bow having only been rendered obsolescent by the rise of repeating firearms). And you'll be adding a sword or axe to your belt instead of a pistol, in all likelihood (with a flintlock rifle-musket).
Well if we're getting far out....I want the 12 gauge Shpagin from Fallout.
Honestly a G19 will do it all but if I'm going to be living far removed from anything resembling society....
I want the lightest shortest bolt action with a good synthetic stock and some kind of rifle length gas AR.
Even if the tube goes bad, it becomes a defacto straightpull.
This is like the guy who was a Japanese soldier surviving for 30 years before surrendering.
But if we're talking "mad max" then you'd be more inclined to make more friends
Coal Dragger
03-12-16, 17:17
Yep, a good bow is more sustainable in a low tech environment.
Frankly choice of personal weaponry is not a huge priority in a post apocalypse scenario. Choose a gun or guns that work and can fill as many roles as possible, personally for me in real long term use where the guns might be passed down as essential survival items I'll stick with simple brute strong designs that can last.
Even more importantly day to day, how do you plan to feed yourself and your family? What happens when the canned goods and MRE's run out? Do you have land to grow crops? Do you have or can you raise livestock? Do you know how to run a trap line and have enough area to do it? What happens if you need medical care?
This notion of needing to deal with hordes of zombies or starving refugees or whatever is a short term scenario. The real survival in the long term will have little to do with whether you pick a Glock 19 over a Ruger Redhawk as your go to sidearm.
Mysteryman
03-12-16, 19:49
The need for parts for an auto or revolver is negative either way in some scenario where society has devolved into Mad Max nonsense.
If you're truly concerned with ammo availability long term then you need to be capable of reloading ammunition. Revolvers are a far easier proposition for this, easier on brass, easier to recover your brass, easier to make ammo that will work in the gun.
Devolving even further into the post apocalyptic future we better get used to the idea of flintlocks. When there's no cartridge ammo to be had or that is functional, nor primers, or smokeless powder, or jacketed bullets a good flintlock can still be viable.
If you think there will be no ammo around you're delusional. Look at Africa, it's a very primitive continent on the whole and they have cell phones firearms and plenty of ammo to go around. As for parts you're right, they will be a challenge to source but autos outnumber revolvers by a large margin so finding parts will be much easier. Add in the fact that autos generally have fewer parts(Glocks the least amount) which means less to fail and less to source. I haven't seen a revolver digest 6 digit quantities of ammo without major components failing. That value is quite common for an auto to reach.
All sorts of fail right here.
By all means, explain your position.
MM
Gunnar da Wolf
03-12-16, 19:56
The Zombie Apocalypse or alien invasion or Red Dawn Pt III are for sissies. I worry about the rise of the Hildebeest to POTUS. That will make being a gun owner tough.
Choice of pistol may not be as important in the future as your ability to keep it fed.
ColdGOOSE1974
03-12-16, 20:25
It scares me that people actually think about these things. Generally the most pointless threads on gun forums. The truth is: 1) never going to happen. 2) did magic destroy the rest of your guns? 3) People will use any gun they can find, steal, etc.
Buzz killer. Play along
teutonicpolymer
03-12-16, 20:38
You could probably macguyver some Glock parts out of paperclips and rubber bands in a real pinch
And while I think this thread is pretty silly (if it is the end of the world, how much shooting are you really going to be doing?) revolvers are pretty damn complex inside and very easy to make stop working like for example simply if the cylinder gets too dirty and can no longer turn
ColdGOOSE1974
03-12-16, 20:40
I would probably take an AR pistol or AK pistol and shoot the G17 wielders from longer ranges in order to have my own G17[emoji851]
teutonicpolymer
03-12-16, 20:48
Well if that is the name of the game I guess I'll take a TC contender then
Coal Dragger
03-12-16, 20:49
If you think there will be no ammo around you're delusional. Look at Africa, it's a very primitive continent on the whole and they have cell phones firearms and plenty of ammo to go around. As for parts you're right, they will be a challenge to source but autos outnumber revolvers by a large margin so finding parts will be much easier. Add in the fact that autos generally have fewer parts(Glocks the least amount) which means less to fail and less to source. I haven't seen a revolver digest 6 digit quantities of ammo without major components failing. That value is quite common for an auto to reach.
By all means, explain your position.
MM
Africa consists of a bunch of third world countries. Yes there is ammo there, seeing as how it can be imported from industrialized nations. Now this mental exercise is supposing that industrialized nations have failed, and have broken down into ruin.
Furthermore I could give a crap about a semi-auto handgun digesting 100k rounds of ammo. For a long term use with primitive support situation that number of rounds is meaningless. You're never going to see that many rounds much less be able to shoot them all. If your gun breaks under those circumstances of no support, if you don't have spare parts already you're screwed. No one will be giving them to you regardless of them having any. I wouldn't. So at that point you have a useless hunk of metal regardless of how it previously functioned.
Also given the large numbers of really old revolvers out there, that still work as well as the day they left the factory this whole durability argument you keep going back to is silly. Both will last long after you're taking a dirt nap, one design will be easier to make work with less than ideal ammo. Hint, it's not the semi-auto.
ColdGOOSE1974
03-12-16, 20:49
Well if that is the name of the game I guess I'll take a TC contender then
Just don't miss[emoji12]
ColdGOOSE1974
03-12-16, 20:52
Africa consists of a bunch of third world countries. Yes there is ammo there, seeing as how it can be imported from industrialized nations. Now this mental exercise is supposing that industrialized nations have failed, and have broken down into ruin.
Furthermore I could give a crap about a semi-auto handgun digesting 100k rounds of ammo. For a long term use with primitive support situation that number of rounds is meaningless. You're never going to see that many rounds much less be able to shoot them all. If your gun breaks under those circumstances of no support, if you don't have spare parts already you're screwed. No one will be giving them to you regardless of them having any. I wouldn't. So at that point you have a useless hunk of metal regardless of how it previously functioned.
Also given the large numbers of really old revolvers out there, that still work as well as the day they left the factory this whole durability argument you keep going back to is silly. Both will last long after you're taking a dirt nap, one design will be easier to make work with less than ideal ammo. Hint, it's not the semi-auto.
I got the sneaky suspicion you're a wheel gun fan[emoji1]
teutonicpolymer
03-12-16, 21:01
I'd much rather have a muddy Glock than a muddy revolver!
Coal Dragger
03-13-16, 04:32
I got the sneaky suspicion you're a wheel gun fan[emoji1]
I love both, but I'll admit to shooting wheel guns since about age 10 so they hold some sentimental value.
Plus since I have acquired a good quality large frame magnum revolver (Freedom Arms M83), I have gotten to where I really appreciate the power and accuracy available. With consistent practice an accurate big bore magnum revolver is like having a rifle you can carry on your hip. Plus the first time you disintegrate a head sized rock 50 yards away with a 360gr hard cast lead bullet, you tend to form a different opinion about whether a handgun can be considered powerful.
Coal Dragger
03-13-16, 04:41
I'd much rather have a muddy Glock than a muddy revolver!
Yes it is true, history is replete with tales of brave warriors dying by the thousands because of mud or other debris hanging up their revolvers.
It is truly a wonder that anyone who ever carried a Colt, Tranter, Smith & Wesson, Adams, Webley, Ruger, Remington, Charter Arms, or other revolver into harms way throughout history ever survived. What with the ever present menace posed by the evil combination of dirt and water mixed together just waiting to disable the brave warrior's trusty revolver! Why this nefarious substance is lurking around every corner, just waiting for its chance!
ColtSeavers
03-13-16, 06:28
Finding parts for an auto is far easier than a revolver simply because revolvers are outdated and far less common. The pros of a Ruger revolver are quickly outweighed by the downsides of all revolvers. Heavy, large, complex, and pathetic capacity. Add in difficult reloads, less common calibre(think ammo availability), inability to mount a light or suppressor, inability to install night sights, nowhere near lefty friendly. The need for special tools is a huge negative as is the parts count
All sorts of fail right here
By all means, explain your position
Not a position.
Finding parts for an auto is far easier than a revolver simply because revolvers are outdated and far less common.
- How exactly did you come to the conclusion that revolvers are far less common? Sales figures? From when to when? Sales from the 30's until today? Polling? Also, how are parts hard to come by? Why can a revolver not use scavenged spare parts from a similar revolver found like a semi auto?
The pros of a Ruger revolver are quickly outweighed by the downsides of all revolvers.
-Let's find out.
Heavy
-Compared to what exactly?
Large
-Again, compared to what? Are you including spare magazine storage for your semi?
Complex
-Watch "Ruger Double Action Revolver Disassembly" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/kkyRDM7md9A. Unless you're referring to something else about Ruger revolvers being complex?
And pathetic capacity
-I'm not going to be obtuse here and claim that 5, 6, 7 or even 8 bullets constitute a large capacity by todays standards, but I was under the impression we are going off of post apocalypse standards.
Add in difficult reloads
-Reloading a revolver is not difficult. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you meant slower. Slower compared to a loaded magazine, but faster than an unloaded magazine. What happens if you're down to only one magazine? Can be sped up with practice, use of a quick/tuff strip and/or even a speedloader. Google revolver reloading: https://www.google.com/search?q=revolver+reloading+techniques&client=ms-android-att-us&source=lnms&prmd=nvsi&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH0or5xb3LAhUBW2MKHW5CDAUQ_AUICCgC&biw=640&bih=335
Less common calibre(think ammo availability)
-Again, where exactly are you getting this data from? I'm very curious as to how you've come to the conclusion that .38/.357 is a uncommon caliber. I could see the argument for .327 and .41 magnums I guess. But I'd also still have to ignore the abilities to be able to cast my own bullets, use blackpowder if necessary and be better able to recover my brass.
Inability to mount a light
-S&W R8 and TRR8. Not my first choice in revolvers or light mounting options, but they are still options none the less. There's also http://www.jackweigand.com/ to mount optics, lights and lasers as well as combination devices. Again, may not be optimal or preferable for some, but they are options none the less.
[Inability to mount a light] or a suppressor
-If I'm truly worried about the noise of a gun firing a bullet, I'd look into other ranged weaponry use sush as bows, cross bows, slingshots or even spears as suppressors neither completely cancel out the sound of a bullet being fired (especially if they're supersonic) nor the action of a semi auto operating.
Inability to install night sights
-I have had night sights on my revolvers for some time now as many others have as well. Seriously, google... https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-att-us&source=android-browser&q=revolver+night+sights
Nowhere near lefty friendly
-Untrue. I've actually read compelling arguments to the contrary. At any rate, no matter which hand you are dominant with, there's no excuse for lack of practice. Here's something to start with: https://www.google.com/search?q=lefty+revolver+reloading+techniques&client=ms-android-att-us&source=lnms&prmd=snvi&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlsIDcwr3LAhUJ1GMKHSWyA6UQ_AUICSgD&biw=640&bih=335
The need for special tools is a huge negative as is the parts count
-A small flat head screwdriver and a small punch/nail are special tools? How about a multiool? What special tools are you referring to? What parts are you referring to? Total number of parts? How many people are proficient with detail stripping their semi auto to include the fire control group and not just field stripping it?
For the record, I'm not anti-bottom feeding brass chucker.:p
ColdGOOSE1974
03-13-16, 08:51
I love both, but I'll admit to shooting wheel guns since about age 10 so they hold some sentimental value.
Plus since I have acquired a good quality large frame magnum revolver (Freedom Arms M83), I have gotten to where I really appreciate the power and accuracy available. With consistent practice an accurate big bore magnum revolver is like having a rifle you can carry on your hip. Plus the first time you disintegrate a head sized rock 50 yards away with a 360gr hard cast lead bullet, you tend to form a different opinion about whether a handgun can be considered powerful.
There is definitely something nostalgic and downright satisfying about holding a nice revolver. I just find myself running out of ammo way too soon.
teutonicpolymer
03-13-16, 10:25
Wow there are some hardcore revolver apologists in here. Like what you want but it is pretty easy to jam up a revolver cylinder, they are heavy unless you get an aluminum alloy frame like the S&W scandiums or a polymer frame like the Ruger LCR while a medium frame .357 like an L-frame or GP100 weighs easily over 40 oz, they are big because they are not size efficient- there are several firing chambers instead of just one, it isn't storing rounds in the grip, and the barrel length is always shorter for size and effectively shorter because gas is lost in the cylinder gap.
I like revolvers but I do think they are outclassed by autoloaders in today's world.
ColtSeavers
03-13-16, 10:41
I like revolvers but I do think they are outclassed by autoloaders in today's world.
This is a recurring mistake. It's not about today's world. It's about tomorrow's apocalyptic one.
556BlackRifle
03-13-16, 10:42
My choice would be the Glock 19. Why?
• I have lots of ammo.
• Lots of magazines – including 33 round happy sticks. :)
• I can carry more 9mm if I have to bug out.
• I have lots of spare parts for the pistol as well as the magazines.
• I have several holster options to choose from. (Eight ranging from CCW, OC, Duty.)
That said, I also have a G23 with a 40 – 9 conversion barrel and .357 Sig barrel with a bunch more magazines. The main reason I wouldn’t go with the G23 is weight. I just don’t want to carry all that crap. Also, it’s more likely that I’ll find 9mm in the field than any other caliber.
Mikill Drengr
03-13-16, 11:45
I'd prefer a Glock in 9mm but any modern striker fired semi auto would do.
I've gotten rid of my Glocks, they don't fit. I have a couple of HK's with the VP9 being the only likely candidate of those. Now I have a Sig P229 9mm that I have put my trust in as the gun I will go down with. My only concern is having to carry a bottle of lube with me. Kind of makes me wish Glocks fit me better as they can run dry, as well as AK's.
teutonicpolymer
03-13-16, 13:07
This is a recurring mistake. It's not about today's world. It's about tomorrow's apocalyptic one.
Hahaha well you got me there
Coal Dragger
03-13-16, 13:52
This is a recurring mistake. It's not about today's world. It's about tomorrow's apocalyptic one.
Yeah most of the crowd here can't seem to come to grips with the post apocalypse concept part of this.
Post meaning after. Apocalypse meaning end of civilization as we know it, or the end of mankind as we know it.
So I take this to mean the zombie/hippie/socialist/cannibal hordes have done their apocalyptic duties killing off the vast majority of mankind and themselves.
Much of the reasoning in this thread is self defense oriented against largely non existent humans. Very few respondents are giving serious consideration to more mundane tasks for a handgun like killing critters of various sizes up to deer so you can eat them.
Plus there is a lot of assuming going on that they're going to realistically be able to scavenge parts, and loaded factory ammo. The argument that something is more common, doesn't mean it will be easy to find. For that matter the assumption you're going to live long enough, and shoot enough to wear out the gun you've got is highly optimistic. Especially if you are counting on a caliber that is marginal on putting down good sized critters, you're going to need them for food and clothing.
It's also easy to tell who is a practicing reloader in this thread and who isn't.
This is a fun fantasy mental exercise though. I don't think everyone is quite embracing it.
MountainRaven
03-13-16, 16:17
This is a recurring mistake. It's not about today's world. It's about tomorrow's apocalyptic one.
And this is why the correct choice is the HK45, not the Austrian sissy pistol. :D
Yeah most of the crowd here can't seem to come to grips with the post apocalypse concept part of this.
Post meaning after. Apocalypse meaning end of civilization as we know it, or the end of mankind as we know it.
So I take this to mean the zombie/hippie/socialist/cannibal hordes have done their apocalyptic duties killing off the vast majority of mankind and themselves.
Much of the reasoning in this thread is self defense oriented against largely non existent humans. Very few respondents are giving serious consideration to more mundane tasks for a handgun like killing critters of various sizes up to deer so you can eat them.
Plus there is a lot of assuming going on that they're going to realistically be able to scavenge parts, and loaded factory ammo. The argument that something is more common, doesn't mean it will be easy to find. For that matter the assumption you're going to live long enough, and shoot enough to wear out the gun you've got is highly optimistic. Especially if you are counting on a caliber that is marginal on putting down good sized critters, you're going to need them for food and clothing.
It's also easy to tell who is a practicing reloader in this thread and who isn't.
This is a fun fantasy mental exercise though. I don't think everyone is quite embracing it.
Honestly, I think people are picking what they'd pick if the apocalypse happened today and not so much for the post-apocalypse tomorrow.
To be fair, I think it makes sense that people would be picking autos over revolvers, either way, just because this thread is posted in the Other Semi-Auto Forum, rather than the revolver forum.
In the actual post apocalypse, I think it would boil down to whatever it is that you can get and that you can get ammo for: Which you have almost no control over. And even then, you're more likely to end up favoring a rifle or shotgun than a handgun: This is pretty much what everyone selects during and following their own localized apocalypses, and it's what people chose when they could only afford one gun for their entire family when they moved into the post-apocalyptic wasteland of the American West in the 18th and 19th Centuries.
Of course, I think that some people also fail to realize that the average size of the game animal that they will be killing in the post-apocalypse would be about 10 lbs, max. Deer, elk, cows, &c. are going to be nearly depopulated as people desperately try to feed themselves. And since refrigeration will be a thing of the past, most of that killing and meat will be wasted. But most of the meat in your pot is going to be coming from squirrels, rabbits, birds, rats, and possibly cats and dogs (maybe not yours, but certainly ferals and those that belong or belonged to other people. If your cat isn't killing mice and rats and keeping them away from your food stores and your dog isn't helping you hunt or protect your home and family, they're pretty much only going to be good for the larder).
Some people might band together to form communities in the late aftermath and these communities might engage in hunting megafauna like cows and bison, but they would be doing it to feed a whole community for a few months, not to feed a family for a year. And some people might know how to low-tech make jerky and pemican, but these people will be few and far between (as they are today) - and with the initial near-extinction of large game animals preceding the homo sapiens die-off, the skills might become rusty or lose their value.
In any event, the 9mm is marginal for deer and overkill for rabbits. You'd probably be better off with a 22 or a Judge or Governor.
(And I can't believe I just wrote that. But there it is: 45 Colt and 45 Auto are better for big game and the 410 is better for small game - and both the 45s will suffice with black powder and lead cast bullets for shooting human beings, if it comes to it, too.)
My choice of the HK45 does not change, however, given that I know that it will run CCI shotshells, thereby mitigating the inability to use 410. I wonder if it will run lead cast bullets with black powder? Even if it doesn't, all you have to do is rack the slide.
Coal Dragger
03-13-16, 16:43
The real answer for small game animals for immediate consumption (not to be cured or smoked) is not even a .22LR if you can avoid it, the answer is a trap line. Fewer calories expended to get your meat, and the traps are still passively hunting while you sit on your ass, or sleep, or do other productive things.
A good supply of Conibear body traps (killing trap) of various sizes and knowledge of how to utilize them can feed you for a long time on small to medium sized animals.
If an auto pistol is your choice then it is hard to go wrong with the HK45. I own one, and it is a favorite for sure. I wouldn't feel too under gunned with one if that was all I had for everything, but I'd still prefer more power from the cartridge for each individual shot. I guess the ultimate in omnivorous versatility where ammo is concerned would be a single action revolver, for example my Freedom Arms with its .454 Casull cylinder will handle .454 Casull, and .45 Colt; plus I have a spare cylinder in .45ACP. The same can be done with a .357 Magnum with a spare cylinder in 9mm.
Not to pollute this thread with preper nonsense, but long term this video seems more realistic for long term planning skill sets for more "primitive" living. Notice firearms are not a huge part of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je_mEnfKNXU
It's also easy to tell who is a practicing reloader in this thread and who isn't.
As a kid (14?) I bought a SW model 13 M&P from a guy I worked with. Found a lee loader, box of 38 brass, and big box (2000?) of 148g HBWC for $6 at a pawn shop.
Bought some Unique, and shot the fool out of that thing! One summer I'd shoot 18 rounds each day on the way to my job, riding a bike to get there nonetheless. I want to say it was 6 grains of unique. Extremely accurate.
Reasonable pressure, frugal powder usage, cases lasted forever, trivial to reload with Lee Loader. Very compact. Easy to use, even with the dipper. Even now I buy Lee Loaders to have on hand in key calibers.
So I could see the appeal of a 4" 357 in a Post Apocalyptic situation. I'd want a coil spring revolver though for reasons already mentioned by others.
Seems like we have several clusters of answers:
- Just get a glock
- "My favorite pistol"
- Mega revolver (for big game)
- simple revolver (reloading, no mags, etc)
- .22 Auto (best for small game, ammo availability)
I'm thinking ammo scarcity will be the limiting factor, far more than service life/reliability
So ease of reloading, and use of cast bullets could be a key factor.
So that might swing me back to a Blackhawk in 357 with a 9mm cylinder. Or 45LC with ACP cyl. I never appreciated blackhawks until I bought one in 41 mag for my son to hunt with. It's a blast, great trigger, and just fun to shoot. And extremely accurate.
The devil's in the details.
I don't recall the OP stating that I couldn't have a .22 rifle and a shotgun. He said only one *handgun*.
Until the rules change, I'm sticking with my Glock 26.
I know this thread is just a fun "what if" topic, but it always amuses me that no matter what forum (here, TOS, or the very "tinfoil" _files) the answers are always so similar.
I'm sure it's been mentioned in one of the past posts, but one of many harsh realities commonly overlooked with these fantasies is the whole replacement parts thing.
I know parts break, but honestly how often? Yes springs and small parts break, but unless you got a defective gun it should go at least a few thousand rounds. If your blasting thru a few thousand rounds in this post apacolyptic world then how are you alive this long?
And I think you're more likely to stumble upon an assembled gun rather than a bag of spare parts. This post was not meant to bash the thread or topic. Just an observation I had. Everyone likes to imagine that they're going to one day wake up in this Mad Max/Book of Eli/Walking Dead world with an armory of the best modern rifles, pistols, and pallets of ammo to go with each. But I think it's the less fun things like food, water, medical supplies and skills that will be most important.
And remember you're not the only guy with a gun. If the world came to a dog-eat-dog scenario, do you have the skills and training to go up against others with the same goals as you? I remember reading a quote somewhere that said to the effect of "somewhere out there in the world your adversary is training his ass off to kill you right now".
ETA: it would be a USPc 9 mm
ETA 2: with a SS slide. Might as well die with some style
"...post-apocalyptic world ..have only one handgun...?
Presuming you're in the US, seems like 9mm is the first right answer. With the FBI transitioning back to 9mm, and the US Military never really having left, it's a no-brainer.
There's still a lot of .40 out there, so probably not a bad backup, as far as availabilty goes.
If Glock marketing is to be believed, then ANY Glock 9mm is the overall winner.
**anyone have any actual data on any of this?**
Desert Eagle. You're gonna die anyways. Might as well look cool doing it.
sad but probably true.
teutonicpolymer
03-13-16, 23:12
I'd like to change my answer to a Zenith Z5p pistol. Except configured as an MP5k, acting as a sear host with folding stock and foregrip handguard. That counts, right?
MountainRaven
03-14-16, 00:43
As a kid (14?) I bought a SW model 13 M&P from a guy I worked with. Found a lee loader, box of 38 brass, and big box (2000?) of 148g HBWC for $6 at a pawn shop.
Bought some Unique, and shot the fool out of that thing! One summer I'd shoot 18 rounds each day on the way to my job, riding a bike to get there nonetheless. I want to say it was 6 grains of unique. Extremely accurate.
Reasonable pressure, frugal powder usage, cases lasted forever, trivial to reload with Lee Loader. Very compact. Easy to use, even with the dipper. Even now I buy Lee Loaders to have on hand in key calibers.
So I could see the appeal of a 4" 357 in a Post Apocalyptic situation. I'd want a coil spring revolver though for reasons already mentioned by others.
Seems like we have several clusters of answers:
- Just get a glock
- "My favorite pistol"
- Mega revolver (for big game)
- simple revolver (reloading, no mags, etc)
- .22 Auto (best for small game, ammo availability)
I'm thinking ammo scarcity will be the limiting factor, far more than service life/reliability
So ease of reloading, and use of cast bullets could be a key factor.
So that might swing me back to a Blackhawk in 357 with a 9mm cylinder. Or 45LC with ACP cyl. I never appreciated blackhawks until I bought one in 41 mag for my son to hunt with. It's a blast, great trigger, and just fun to shoot. And extremely accurate.
I feel like the bolded bit is aimed at me.
If it isn't, carry on.
If it is... I don't own an HK45. I have owned HK45s in the past, but I'm not sure that I will ever own one again. If I had to carry a 45 pistol into combat, it would be my first choice. If I were going to pick one handgun to ride out the apocalypse and make it into the post-apocalypse with, the HK45 would be my first choice.
It's simply too large to carry concealed and for a combat handgun I see no real reason to choose a 45 over a 9mm, unless you're restricted to FMJs (which I am not). It doesn't offer anything substantial over my G17 as a home defense gun and both my 1911 (for when I want a 45 - because I'm not living through the apocalypse... yet... and if I do, I will have a shotgun and/or a rifle) and my G19 (and the G17 for that matter) conceal more better than the HK45 does. (The HK45C is not an option because even though it conceals about as well as a G19 and slightly less well than a 1911, its rail is too short to mount a SureFire to. And I'm a SureFire whore, so if it doesn't accept a SureFire, I don't want it.)
My favorite handgun, in fact, is my 1911. And if you own a 1911 and it's somehow not your favorite semi-automatic handgun (I'll say favorite semi-automatic full-size handgun only to allow for oddballs like the P7 and PPK), you're doing it wrong. I might even choose my 1911 over my polymer-framed wonderguns were I to suddenly face the apocalypse/post-apocalypse... but it would be a sidearm, carried much and shot very, very little. If, for the post-apocalypse, I had to carry only one gun and that gun had to be a handgun... my 1911 probably would not be it. Not unless I'm going to be the Jarl of Gallatin Valley, Montana.
Most of whatever shooting needs doing would be accomplished by a rifle or shotgun and the particular importance of any given handgun would be overshadowed by the utility of the long gun. Especially given that most of us would end up leaving the handgun at the homestead/cave/bunker/bomb shelter/lean-to in favor of traveling lighter/faster with the long gun or with more ammunition on board for the long gun.
And this fact, that the handgun is almost immaterial next to the long gun for a post-apocalyptic scenario, is why I treat the scenario as only allowing one, single handgun as the only firearm. Otherwise, you might as well just pick your smallest/lightest/favoritest handgun, because it doesn't matter, it's going to be one of the least used tools you'll be carrying with you.
Ok...I See where you are going with that...but then you are also saying, that you were lucky enough to come across a place that had a gun, but unlike your place, and mine, and most every member here, that they only had one gun there. A possibility but not too probable. I think the OP was just creating a hypothetical situation that you could only pick one, not find one.
If there was magic and I had Hammer Space (that space from which Bugs Bunny magically pulls a large hammer whenever he chooses) I would go with an AR SBR and an Omega suppressor. But there isn't magic.
If I'm limited to a single handgun for the apocalypse, it means I had only one handgun with me when everything fell apart. Therefore, I wasn't at home, at the range or out on a camping/shooting/hunting trip. Instead, I was out and about with just my everyday carry concealed carry pistol- either the PPQ or more rarely, the 1911
I feel like the bolded bit is aimed at me.
If it isn't, carry on.
Nah, had not really noticed your post. Was really commenting about all of our (mine included) various fav pics. (Earlier I had posted PPQ or P99AS, as it would be my medium size pick)
I probably should have said:
- "Just get a glock"
- "My XYZ" (replace XYZ with your favorite non glock poly frame, or 1911)
- Etc
Most of us have very good reasons for our favorites. And there will be people who have other reasons to have a different one, or even a glock.
I find the Walthers (PPQ & P99) to have:
- Similar to old Glock reliability, better than newer glock reliability
- Very good ergos
- Very good accuracy, and more importantly, easy for many to shoot accurately
- Tried and true design
In my mind it has many of the advantage of the glock 19, without some of the disadvantages (odd grip angle, BTF questions, etc)
The downside would be mag & holster availability, which is clearly an advantage of the glocks. But I've not had problems getting either, and since it's a made up scenario I'd have spare mags with me as well as a holster.
I largely discount parts availability for several reasons:
1) Ammo would be the constraint far before service life & parts issues
2) My observation is that Walthers have not historically needed the parts support that glocks, M&P's, etc have. I am not aware of anyone that had to swap trigger, barrels, or similar parts. Not that it will never happen, just that it's pretty rare, even in the large departments which used the SW99's, etc. (Not that the SW99's were great pistols, but they were pretty reliable)
3) I really don't anticipate shooting hundreds, much less thousands of rounds in the scenario. And as soon as I could scrounge one, I'd find a carbine
If I had to take just one *firearm*, it would not be a 9mm pistol... I'd take a M4'ish setup, kiss carbine plus a 1-4 LPV. Not that the pistol is not valuable, but the carbine is more flexible.
This decision really gets back to the old "overt" or "covert" thread. I'm very much in the covert school of thought, but more in the "stay out of sight", not as much "keep your weapon hidden" mindset. If I am seen, I don't want to be viewed as a soft target.
Mysteryman
03-14-16, 16:09
Not a position.
Finding parts for an auto is far easier than a revolver simply because revolvers are outdated and far less common.
- How exactly did you come to the conclusion that revolvers are far less common? Sales figures? From when to when? Sales from the 30's until today? Polling? Also, how are parts hard to come by? Why can a revolver not use scavenged spare parts from a similar revolver found like a semi auto?
Between sales figures, what's issued to LE and what is observed at the range, they're far less common. With fewer revolvers being sold there will be fewer parts available, add in that part swapping is not easy and rarely plug and play like a quality auto.
The pros of a Ruger revolver are quickly outweighed by the downsides of all revolvers.
-Let's find out.
Heavy
-Compared to what exactly?
[/COLOR]Compared to most autos, more specifically polymer guns like a Glock. Revolvers are fat pigs.[/COLOR]
Large
-Again, compared to what? Are you including spare magazine storage for your semi?
Again, most autos. Revolvers are larger in overall dimensions for a greatly reduced capacity when compared to autos, think Glock 19.
Complex
-Watch "Ruger Double Action Revolver Disassembly" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/kkyRDM7md9A. Unless you're referring to something else about Ruger revolvers being complex?
So you need a hammer a punch and a screwdriver to facilitate basic field stripping. That's three more tools needed than almost any auto. The sub assemblies and easy disassembly of Ruger revolvers is rather innovative for sure, but it's far from being as easy as an auto and you're still left with sub assemblies not individual parts. I'm also willing to bet there are far more S&W revolvers out there than Ruger revolvers, and they're not as user friendly to disassemble, and that's only two brands. With the total parts count of some revolvers nearing triple digits they are in fact far more complicated and involve a lot of very small pieces and hand/custom fitting. Again think of a Glock, it comprises itself of 34 parts, including the magazine, none of which require custom fitting.
And pathetic capacity
-I'm not going to be obtuse here and claim that 5, 6, 7 or even 8 bullets constitute a large capacity by todays standards, but I was under the impression we are going off of post apocalypse standards.
Not sure what you're getting at but I think you're referring to having any firearm with ammo is better than none, which I agree. However having more rounds onboard offers you more options and the ability to drive the fight longer.
Add in difficult reloads
-Reloading a revolver is not difficult. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you meant slower. Slower compared to a loaded magazine, but faster than an unloaded magazine. What happens if you're down to only one magazine? Can be sped up with practice, use of a quick/tuff strip and/or even a speedloader. Google revolver reloading: https://www.google.com/search?q=revolver+reloading+techniques&client=ms-android-att-us&source=lnms&prmd=nvsi&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH0or5xb3LAhUBW2MKHW5CDAUQ_AUICCgC&biw=640&bih=335
I own a revolver and have shot many, they're much more difficult to load than an auto. Aligning six/7/8 rounds with six/7/8 holes takes more effort than aligning one large magazine with one large hole. If you're using speed strips or loose loading you're severely handicapped in the speed department. Loading a revolver with one hand is a frustrating experience, not so much with an auto. If you're down to empty magazines then it makes no difference as an empty magazine is useless, same can be said for revolver guys who have lost or broken their speed strips/speed loaders. Based on capacity of a magazine vs a speed loader or speed strip, the revolver guy will be loose loading long before the auto guy does if both have the same amount of ammo. Here's a video of a guy using both speed loader and speed strips, the times are atrocious. 6 plus seconds for a "speed loader" and 11 plus seconds for a "speed strip". If you watch closely you see other issues associated with revolvers like the failure for all spent cases to clear the cylinder and the inherent wobble of the rounds in the speed loader causing alignment issues when reloading. Compare the revolver times to an average auto user at around 3 seconds for up to 3 TIMES as many rounds being reloaded and it's very clear that revolvers are poor choice and inferior to autos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Rx6tGpMt8
Less common calibre(think ammo availability)
-Again, where exactly are you getting this data from? I'm very curious as to how you've come to the conclusion that .38/.357 is a uncommon caliber. I could see the argument for .327 and .41 magnums I guess. But I'd also still have to ignore the abilities to be able to cast my own bullets, use blackpowder if necessary and be better able to recover my brass.
38/357 is not a mil standard calibre and revolvers are no longer issued to LE. It would stand to reason that finding ammo will be more difficult than any of the three common auto calibres. I also said it is LESS common, not that it wasn't common.
Inability to mount a light
-S&W R8 and TRR8. Not my first choice in revolvers or light mounting options, but they are still options none the less. There's also http://www.jackweigand.com/ to mount optics, lights and lasers as well as combination devices. Again, may not be optimal or preferable for some, but they are options none the less.
If you've ever done low light training you'd realize how stupid the TRR8 really is. There is no way to operate the light properly on a revolver, not to mention once it's mounted you no longer are able to holster the gun. The top rail mount is not a solution for mounting lights as it obstructs your line of sight and again does not allow you to holster the firearm. The rail also ads cost and weight to an already expensive and heavy firearm. Most autos come equipped with a light rail, at no extra cost or weight.
[Inability to mount a light] or a suppressor
-If I'm truly worried about the noise of a gun firing a bullet, I'd look into other ranged weaponry use sush as bows, cross bows, slingshots or even spears as suppressors neither completely cancel out the sound of a bullet being fired (especially if they're supersonic) nor the action of a semi auto operating.
I'm aware of what a suppressor is and is not capable of doing. They are still an advantage and one that a revolver cannot offer.
Inability to install night sights
-I have had night sights on my revolvers for some time now as many others have as well. Seriously, google... https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-att-us&source=android-browser&q=revolver+night+sights
Not all revolvers are capable of removing/replacing the front sight(or rear for that matter). Think older revolvers here, they often have fixed sights. Most older autos still have a dovetail sight mounting system which offers the user the option to replace the stock sights with night sights.
Nowhere near lefty friendly
-Untrue. I've actually read compelling arguments to the contrary. At any rate, no matter which hand you are dominant with, there's no excuse for lack of practice. Here's something to start with: https://www.google.com/search?q=lefty+revolver+reloading+techniques&client=ms-android-att-us&source=lnms&prmd=snvi&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlsIDcwr3LAhUJ1GMKHSWyA6UQ_AUICSgD&biw=640&bih=335
Sorry but a revolver is far from easy to operate for left handed folks. They're a dogs breakfast for right handed shooters. Having to transition the gun to your support hand to reload is both slow and inefficient, and as mentioned above not something easily done with one hand. The video shows an option but it's both awkward and slow.
The need for special tools is a huge negative as is the parts count
-A small flat head screwdriver and a small punch/nail are special tools? How about a multiool? What special tools are you referring to? What parts are you referring to? Total number of parts? How many people are proficient with detail stripping their semi auto to include the fire control group and not just field stripping it?
If you're serious about your gear then you should be capable of completely stripping the firearm. If you're not then worrying about parts is a moot point. That being said, requiring tools to disassemble your gun, even a Ruger revolver to its sub assemblies is still one more point of failure. Field stripping most autos requires absolutely ZERO tools.
For the record, I'm not anti-bottom feeding brass chucker.:p
For the record, revolvers have always been a compromise at best. They are however still better than a stick. ;)
I'm in the orange..
MM
I don't fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios so I could be off base here, but I think the people who say 9mm will be "laying around" everywhere, will be in a world of hurt. Don't forget, everyone & their brother will also be "picking it up" & stashing it.
9mm shelves are/were bare after a panic like SH, let alone some post apocalypse. Yet less popular calibers never or barely moved.
For the sake of the thread, though, I guess my choice would be a G20, where I can shoot 10mm & .40 (if I have to in a crunch) or possibly a G21 with a 10mm conversion barrel.
Certainly, reloading is must.
I don't fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios so I could be off base here, but I think the people who say 9mm will be "laying around" everywhere, will be in a world of hurt. Don't forget, everyone & their brother will also be "picking it up" & stashing it.
9mm shelves are/were bare after a panic like SH, let alone some post apocalypse. Yet less popular calibers never or barely moved.
For the sake of the thread, though, I guess my choice would be a G20, where I can shoot 10mm & .40 (if I have to in a crunch) or possibly a G21 with a 10mm conversion barrel.
Certainly, reloading is must.
Swell idea. It'd also give you the ability to use. 45 super among others with the proper barrel.
domestique
03-14-16, 17:27
I feel like the bolded bit is aimed at me.
If it isn't, carry on.
If it is... I don't own an HK45. I have owned HK45s in the past, but I'm not sure that I will ever own one again. If I had to carry a 45 pistol into combat, it would be my first choice. If I were going to pick one handgun to ride out the apocalypse and make it into the post-apocalypse with, the HK45 would be my first choice.
It's simply too large to carry concealed and for a combat handgun I see no real reason to choose a 45 over a 9mm, unless you're restricted to FMJs (which I am not). It doesn't offer anything substantial over my G17 as a home defense gun and both my 1911 (for when I want a 45 - because I'm not living through the apocalypse... yet... and if I do, I will have a shotgun and/or a rifle) and my G19 (and the G17 for that matter) conceal more better than the HK45 does. (The HK45C is not an option because even though it conceals about as well as a G19 and slightly less well than a 1911, its rail is too short to mount a SureFire to. And I'm a SureFire whore, so if it doesn't accept a SureFire, I don't want it.)
My favorite handgun, in fact, is my 1911. And if you own a 1911 and it's somehow not your favorite semi-automatic handgun (I'll say favorite semi-automatic full-size handgun only to allow for oddballs like the P7 and PPK), you're doing it wrong. I might even choose my 1911 over my polymer-framed wonderguns were I to suddenly face the apocalypse/post-apocalypse... but it would be a sidearm, carried much and shot very, very little. If, for the post-apocalypse, I had to carry only one gun and that gun had to be a handgun... my 1911 probably would not be it. Not unless I'm going to be the Jarl of Gallatin Valley, Montana.
Most of whatever shooting needs doing would be accomplished by a rifle or shotgun and the particular importance of any given handgun would be overshadowed by the utility of the long gun. Especially given that most of us would end up leaving the handgun at the homestead/cave/bunker/bomb shelter/lean-to in favor of traveling lighter/faster with the long gun or with more ammunition on board for the long gun.
And this fact, that the handgun is almost immaterial next to the long gun for a post-apocalyptic scenario, is why I treat the scenario as only allowing one, single handgun as the only firearm. Otherwise, you might as well just pick your smallest/lightest/favoritest handgun, because it doesn't matter, it's going to be one of the least used tools you'll be carrying with you.
You can mount a Surefire to a HK 45C. you just have to modify the light. There are numerous threads over at HKPRO forum.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-handgun-talk/14630d1375932450-x300-ultra-mounted-my-hk45c-img_5242.jpg
If you think there will be no ammo around you're delusional. Look at Africa, it's a very primitive continent on the whole and they have cell phones firearms and plenty of ammo to go around. As for parts you're right, they will be a challenge to source but autos outnumber revolvers by a large margin so finding parts will be much easier. Add in the fact that autos generally have fewer parts(Glocks the least amount) which means less to fail and less to source. I haven't seen a revolver digest 6 digit quantities of ammo without major components failing. That value is quite common for an auto to reach.
MM
Interesting point about Africa. Even there, though, ammo and guns are only available to the military and armed rebel groups (nearly always sponsored from abroad).
The regular masses of people are nearly always disarmed and hence readily slaughtered.
If I had to choose just one, I guess I'd still prefer an auto over a revolver, although a revolver in a serious magnum caliber wouldn't be too bad to have.
I would probably take an AR pistol or AK pistol and shoot the G17 wielders from longer ranges in order to have my own G17[emoji851]
Why settle for an AR/AK pistol in an apocalypse? The NFA would be history by that point.
I don't fantasize about apocalyptic scenarios so I could be off base here, but I think the people who say 9mm will be "laying around" everywhere, will be in a world of hurt. Don't forget, everyone & their brother will also be "picking it up" & stashing it.
9mm shelves are/were bare after a panic like SH, let alone some post apocalypse. Yet less popular calibers never or barely moved.
For the sake of the thread, though, I guess my choice would be a G20, where I can shoot 10mm & .40 (if I have to in a crunch) or possibly a G21 with a 10mm conversion barrel.
Certainly, reloading is must.
Great point!
Which is exactly why my recommendation of the Desert Eagle (in .50 AE of course) is rock solid.
ColtSeavers
03-14-16, 19:07
I'm in orange..
Now you are bullet points again.
Between sales figures, what's issued to LE and what is observed at the range, they're far less common. With fewer revolvers being sold there will be fewer parts available, add in that part swapping is not easy and rarely plug and play like a quality auto.
-No data. More importantly, you conveniently forget that just because a handgun is semi auto, does not mean it's suddenly parts compatible with all other semi autos, and that there are more than a few semi auto variants out there. So we're back to needing to find a similar gun, as I already stated.
Again, most autos. Revolvers are larger in overall dimensions for a greatly reduced capacity when compared to autos, think Glock 19.
-Again, are you accounting for spare magazine storage as well for both size and weight? Are you accounting for the singular package of a revolver? Are you also factoring in the ability to fabricate your own ammo for a revolver far easier and with more 'leeway' than a lighter semi auto? Just because something is larger or heavier, does not make it a bad thing or choice.
So you need a hammer a punch and a screwdriver to facilitate basic field stripping. That's three more tools needed than almost any auto. The sub assemblies and easy disassembly of Ruger revolvers is rather innovative for sure, but it's far from being as easy as an auto and you're still left with sub assemblies not individual parts. I'm also willing to bet there are far more S&W revolvers out there than Ruger revolvers, and they're not as user friendly to disassemble, and that's only two brands. With the total parts count of some revolvers nearing triple digits they are in fact far more complicated and involve a lot of very small pieces and hand/custom fitting. Again think of a Glock, it comprises itself of 34 parts, including the magazine, none of which require custom fitting.
-The hammer is completely unecessary and if you think unscrewing a screw, punching out a pin and retaining a spring are far from being as easy as dissassembly of some semi autos, I don't know what to say. You are also playing the 'there will be too few of x but not y, revolver vs your specific semi auto, card again. The only custom fitting I am aware of for Ruger revolvers is when cylinder shims or custom/bubba'd/fabricated parts are used. Also still ignoring the fact that totality of parts usage is not directly related to mechanical failure.
Not sure what you're getting at but I think you're referring to having any firearm with ammo is better than none, which I agree. However having more rounds onboard offers you more options and the ability to drive the fight longer.
-Just because your gun could hold 19 rounds in each magazine, does not mean you will have that much ammo. I'm saying that having ammo, hell even more ammo is great, but that post apocalypse, the ability to fabricate ammo will far outweigh the reliance on the ability to 'find' or trade for ammo as well as ammo components.
I own a revolver and have shot many, they're much more difficult to load than an auto. Aligning six/7/8 rounds with six/7/8 holes takes more effort than aligning one large magazine with one large hole. If you're using speed strips or loose loading you're severely handicapped in the speed department. Loading a revolver with one hand is a frustrating experience, not so much with an auto. If you're down to empty magazines then it makes no difference as an empty magazine is useless, same can be said for revolver guys who have lost or broken their speed strips/speed loaders. Based on capacity of a magazine vs a speed loader or speed strip, the revolver guy will be loose loading long before the auto guy does if both have the same amount of ammo. Here's a video of a guy using both speed loader and speed strips, the times are atrocious. 6 plus seconds for a "speed loader" and 11 plus seconds for a "speed strip". If you watch closely you see other issues associated with revolvers like the failure for all spent cases to clear the cylinder and the inherent wobble of the rounds in the speed loader causing alignment issues when reloading. Compare the revolver times to an average auto user at around 3 seconds for up to 3 TIMES as many rounds being reloaded and it's very clear that revolvers are poor choice and inferior to autos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Rx6tGpMt8
-Quicker still does not equal easier. I have seen people jam magazines in semi auto's magwell backwards. I've seen magazines loaded with the ammo backwards. Really Effs things up. Can't do that with a revolver. Also don't have to worry about hitting the magazine release and dumping your mag as I've also seen people do. There's also limp wristing and riding the slide lock. Don't have to worry about tap rack bang clear drills for failures. It's really not clear at all, unless you narrow problems to revolver specific ones.
38/357 is not a mil standard calibre and revolvers are no longer issued to LE. It would stand to reason that finding ammo will be more difficult than any of the three common auto calibres. I also said it is LESS common, not that it wasn't common.
-Still ignoring the ability to fabricate my own ammo far easier. I sure as hell hope no one else figures out that guns use ammo post apocalypse and actually decide to hold on to it, or trade for some really one sided deals if not bullets first for your sake. And you're really going to try and argue the difference between uncommon and less common? Come on.
If you've ever done low light training you'd realize how stupid the TRR8 really is. There is no way to operate the light properly on a revolver, not to mention once it's mounted you no longer are able to holster the gun. The top rail mount is not a solution for mounting lights as it obstructs your line of sight and again does not allow you to holster the firearm. The rail also ads cost and weight to an already expensive and heavy firearm. Most autos come equipped with a light rail, at no extra cost or weight.
-Here's hoping the third time's the charm. They are options none the less. You said it was an inabilty, I proved you wrong, now it's simply not optimal at best, as I already stated as well. Also, all these batteries are more supplies that mystically can be 'found' along with ammo and still have a charge? Also, what exactly is preventing one from fabricating their own holster?
I'm aware of what a suppressor is and is not capable of doing. They are still an advantage and one that a revolver cannot offer.
-Ok, fair enough. Just don't click this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=revolver+silencer&client=ms-android-att-us&source=univ&prmd=sivn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&fir=p8T7Ka2lFyvnYM%253A%252CqEXEQVxFVz9mfM%252C_%253B0-ZQ3mbQKYvNYM%253A%252CLRE-XTY3AL4kxM%252C_%253B1mundxl772-GCM%253A%252CiDjo_NjPPMWFzM%252C_%253BYNTGKcv-OXBVcM%253A%252CaCBjc_oRgC9wbM%252C_%253BhHwJtEJNRCaKoM%253A%252C24ix7oMSLWDFFM%252C_%253Bfxcv_HHSiYqpsM%253A%252CNZxoJDwM-FaY4M%252C_%253BhHhFZNLS2x_J0M%253A%252ChysEcis-_aRUwM%252C_%253BIFDJE4FAIW5IbM%253A%252CZdqi8x4GByHfDM%252C_%253BHdhr42jpmL6HbM%253A%252CvouPlntEuWXyPM%252C_%253BxJaN-Bw27bm54M%253A%252CvFSAm6hoM7mmHM%252C_&usg=__a8Nw8WyuqKeXiqg-1Khyw1A0i0Q%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAlKO7t8HLAhUY4GMKHeKzAuMQ7AkIJA&biw=640&bih=335
Not all revolvers are capable of removing/replacing the front sight(or rear for that matter). Think older revolvers here, they often have fixed sights. Most older autos still have a dovetail sight mounting system which offers the user the option to replace the stock sights with night sights.
-Inability, proven wrong, now it's narrowed to specific revolvers, but not specific semi autos. This double standard is getting old.
Sorry but a revolver is far from easy to operate for left handed folks. They're a dogs breakfast for right handed shooters. Having to transition the gun to your support hand to reload is both slow and inefficient, and as mentioned above not something easily done with one hand. The video shows an option but it's both awkward and slow.
-Your lack of practice is not my concern. And who says you must switch to your support hand? Funny how ambidexterity is touted as a fantastic ability for semi autos, yet few semi auto owners actually practice it. Considering what I've seen people do with semi autos shooting strong hand, I grimmace thinking of how badly they can fumble weak hand.
If you're serious about your gear then you should be capable of completely stripping the firearm. If you're not then worrying about parts is a moot point. That being said, requiring tools to disassemble your gun, even a Ruger revolver to its sub assemblies is still one more point of failure. Field stripping most autos requires absolutely ZERO tools.
-Detail stripping is not anywhere near as necessary as you are trying to make it out to be. It can be done none the less.
For the record, revolvers have always been a compromise at best. They are however still better than a stick.
-No idea where you get compromise from given firearms history.
I'm thinking much longer term for a post apocalypse scenario. Whether I last 10 years or not, does not stop me from at least trying to think that far ahead.
ColdGOOSE1974
03-14-16, 19:44
Interesting point about Africa. Even there, though, ammo and guns are only available to the military and armed rebel groups (nearly always sponsored from abroad).
The regular masses of people are nearly always disarmed and hence readily slaughtered.
If I had to choose just one, I guess I'd still prefer an auto over a revolver, although a revolver in a serious magnum caliber wouldn't be too bad to have.
Why settle for an AR/AK pistol in an apocalypse? The NFA would be history by that point.
Great point!
Which is exactly why my recommendation of the Desert Eagle (in .50 AE of course) is rock solid.
Believe me, I wouldn't settle. I am just sticking to the one handgun rule by the OP.
Guys seriously? Lighten up. Have some fun. Enjoy the apocalypse!
Believe me, I wouldn't settle. I am just sticking to the one handgun rule by the OP.
Ah, well played technicality, Sir.
I suppose a pistol = handgun.
In that case, I retract my Desert Eagle suggestion, and replace it with a full-auto .50 BMG M2HB pistol with a Sig stabilizing brace.:)
Gunnar da Wolf
03-14-16, 21:41
Guys seriously? Lighten up. Have some fun. Enjoy the apocalypse!
Excellent idea! I retract my 1911 proposal and switch to my 4 5/8" Ruger SBH .44 with a big belt knife and a bag of loading / casting supplies.
You're terminally unlucky if you manage to break a Ruger.
ColtSeavers
03-14-16, 21:55
Guys seriously? Lighten up. Have some fun. Enjoy the apocalypse!
You are absolutely correct. I took a fun topic and got too serious with it for my own tastes. Apologies to all. I'm out.
And to ensure that there is no misunderstanding, I do/did not read usmcvet's post as directed towards me, I just feel as though it applies to me if I'm to be honest.
No hard feelings and enjoy the apocalypse all! :)
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160315/46f191a16a9631181f508dea5248f5da.jpg Id use my good ole SA build.
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I own my MK23 for occasions just like this ; )
Excellent idea! I retract my 1911 proposal and switch to my 4 5/8" Ruger SBH .44 with a big belt knife and a bag of loading / casting supplies.
You're terminally unlucky if you manage to break a Ruger.
I like it! I always wanted to be a Ckwbiy. I always enjoyed watching Cowboy shows with my dad. Matt Dillion and The Rifleman were my favorites. I still catch The Rifleman occasionally on TV.
You are absolutely correct. I took a fun topic and got too serious with it for my own tastes. Apologies to all. I'm out.
And to ensure that there is no misunderstanding, I do/did not read usmcvet's post as directed towards me, I just feel as though it applies to me if I'm to be honest.
No hard feelings and enjoy the apocalypse all! :)
My post wasn't directed at anyone just trying to get us focused on a fun thread and diversion from every day life. =)
jeremy.tankersley
03-15-16, 20:15
Finding parts for an auto is far easier than a revolver simply because revolvers are outdated and far less common. The pros of a Ruger revolver are quickly outweighed by the downsides of all revolvers. Heavy, large, complex, and pathetic capacity. Add in difficult reloads, less common calibre(think ammo availability), inability to mount a light or suppressor, inability to install night sights, nowhere near lefty friendly. The need for special tools is a huge negative as is the parts count.
MM
You don't get out much huh? Not a single thing on that post is true.
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That's it. I'm switching to my Ruger Montado.
ColdGOOSE1974
03-16-16, 15:40
Ah, well played technicality, Sir.
I suppose a pistol = handgun.
In that case, I retract my Desert Eagle suggestion, and replace it with a full-auto .50 BMG M2HB pistol with a Sig stabilizing brace.:)
I don't think I could hit the broad side of a barn with that beast.
I don't think I could hit the broad side of a barn with that beast.
Go to your local range and see if they rent guns out...mine does. Either way shooting the DE .50 is rather satisfying actually. It is, contrary to the popular rumor, very accurate and handles well enough for its size and weight.
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Go to your local range and see if they rent guns out...mine does. Either way shooting the DE .50 is rather satisfying actually. It is, contrary to the popular rumor, very accurate and handles well enough for its size and weight.
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I think he may have been referring to the hypothetical full-auto M2HB w/ Sig brace.
I think he may have been referring to the hypothetical full-auto M2HB w/ Sig brace.
I miss read it. thanks.
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Coal Dragger
03-16-16, 17:42
Well since we're going down this road I will just attach a mini gun to one arm, and a chainsaw to the other.
How will I do anything else with these attached to my arms? I'll have my slaves do whatever needs doing, cause anyone with a mini gun and chainsaw for hands is going to have slaves.
Well since we're going down this road I will just attach a mini gun to one arm, and a chainsaw to the other.
How will I do anything else with these attached to my arms? I'll have my slaves do whatever needs doing, cause anyone with a mini gun and chainsaw for hands is going to have slaves.
Well thought out there. Can i be your ally?
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Coal Dragger
03-16-16, 17:53
Hell yes.
We have work to do designing sweet marauder trucks and stuff. That and bad ass looking post apocalypse outfits, cause no one wears regular clothes after the apocalypse.
Hell yes.
We have work to do designing sweet marauder trucks and stuff. That and bad ass looking post apocalypse outfits, cause no one wears regular clothes after the apocalypse.
Mad max type stuff
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Coal Dragger
03-16-16, 18:21
Exactly, ever watch a post apocalypse movie like Mad Max? Ever see anyone driving a Prius? Nope, they drive monster trucks, with spikes on them, maybe decorated with the skulls of liberal hippies, and they all have supercharged big block V8's. Anything less will simply not work.
Then there is the personal attire issue of the post apocalypse. No one will wear sensible clothing. We'll all be dressed in dark leather head to toe. Lots of straps and buckles all over. Basically we're going to dress like members of a bad 80's hair band. Cause black leather pants, and matching black leather jackets festooned in spikes and 30 lbs of buckles and straps is the clothing to survive in a 130° post apocalyptic desert. That and some sort of face mask.
And spears. Spears stike terror into whoever isnt part of the 'gang'. Lots of spears
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Coal Dragger
03-16-16, 21:21
**** Yes.
As much as people rag on it, just admit it, we all fantasize about how we would roll when (and not if) the apocalypse comes.
As much as people rag on it, just admit it, we all fantasize about how we would roll when (and not if) the apocalypse comes.
Indeed. It took me fully becoming an adult to realize why westerns and apocalyptic stories were so fascinating. Essentially the same concept. No law but what we uphold and no life but what we create.
Actual freedom. Good and bad.
Doesn't change my choice of Glock 19 though
Friendly question to all post apocalyptic leather clad reloaders. Presume you have used brass, bullets can be cast, even powder can be cooked but where are you going to get new primers?
My weapon of choice is of course the P210. But if reloading is an option then maybe 586, because then even black powder would be usable.
Friendly question to all post apocalyptic leather clad reloaders. Presume you have used brass, bullets can be cast, even powder can be cooked but where are you going to get new primers?
My weapon of choice is of course the P210. But if reloading is an option then maybe 586, because then even black powder would be usable.
Flintlock xD
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Whatever is reliable, you have lots of training hours with, and you have holsters, mags, and plenty of ammo for. For me that would be a Glock 17.
Cincinnatus15
03-17-16, 10:00
Gotta go with that Glock 19! It's like a sore dick, ya can't beat it!
Coal Dragger
03-17-16, 10:16
Friendly question to all post apocalyptic leather clad reloaders. Presume you have used brass, bullets can be cast, even powder can be cooked but where are you going to get new primers?
My weapon of choice is of course the P210. But if reloading is an option then maybe 586, because then even black powder would be usable.
Primers can be reworked if needs be. However it is laborious, and the results are not always 100% reliable where ignition is concerned. Some people have tried strike anywhere match heads, and others caps for toy guns. Both will make pistol ammo go boom. Figure on a misfire at least 40% of the time. Which is another advantage of the revolver, just cock the hammer or pull the trigger again to try the next round. No immediate action required. Remember immediate action drills will be tougher because of all the tight leather you're going to be wearing.
domestique
03-17-16, 10:25
Primers can be reworked if needs be. However it is laborious, and the results are not always 100% reliable where ignition is concerned. Some people have tried strike anywhere match heads, and others caps for toy guns. Both will make pistol ammo go boom. Figure on a misfire at least 40% of the time. Which is another advantage of the revolver, just cock the hammer or pull the trigger again to try the next round. No immediate action required. Remember immediate action drills will be tougher because of all the tight leather you're going to be wearing.
Or a re-strike capable auto: like my HK LEM pistols :cool:
Reality..... North Korea/Iran/Russia/ Donald Drumpf will push us into a nuclear war..... after the nuclear dust settles, 90% of us will be dust.
Coal Dragger
03-17-16, 13:18
The other 10% will be wearing leather hair band suits, driving nitro methane powered monster trucks and busy themselves constructing a thunder dome. Hollywood says so, it must be true.
I still think we'll be using spears
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I don't know if hypothetical questions are against the rules here, if they are, I ask the moderator to delete this post. Imagine that you live in a post-apocalyptic world like we saw in movies like "The Book of Eli" or "The Postman", and you are allowed to have only one handgun which one would you choose? I'd probably take a G17 but I'd be OK with a Beretta 92 or a SIG P226 or even a CZ75 SP01, but I am not so sure regarding the last choice. Which one would you take?
Based on reality, Glock 17. If based on choice that does not take reality in mind (ammo, spare parts, etc) an HK USP .45.
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