View Full Version : Russian T-90 tank vs BGM-71 TOW missile
For the armor experts, was the tank damaged at all by this hit? Looks like the crew got their bells rung, at least:
http://defence-blog.com/army/first-russian-tank-t-90-in-syria-hit-by-tow.html
devildogljb
02-26-16, 20:34
Im no expert but i swear the missile hit the barrel of the cannon. Watch the slow mo carefully
For the armor experts, was the tank damaged at all by this hit? Looks like the crew got their bells rung, at least:
http://defence-blog.com/army/first-russian-tank-t-90-in-syria-hit-by-tow.html
Eurodriver
02-26-16, 20:34
Not a tanker. No experience with tanks. No knowledge of Russian tank tactics.
As a human on a battlefield, it would take quite a bit to get me to hop out of a tank after just getting hit. I'd imagine something was going on inside there that required a quick egress.
I'm assuming that they were at risk of asphyxiation
Not sure what version TOWs we supplied them, doesn't seem like newer versions though,which are top attack. Doesn't seem like that was a catastrophic kill on the tank, would've liked to have seen the vid last a little longer to see if the ammo inside started to cook off.
dwhitehorne
02-26-16, 20:50
I'm assuming that they were at risk of asphyxiation
This was what I was thinking. Also I you can't see if the commander hatch opened or was already up. Seen a few people in a semi-conscious state do things they wouldn't have done when they were clearly thinking. David
So who exactly was doing the shooting? American tow missiles blowing up Russian tanks doesn't seem like a good equation for larger global conflict to me.
HardToHandle
02-26-16, 22:18
So who exactly was doing the shooting? American tow missiles blowing up Russian tanks doesn't seem like a good equation for larger global conflict to me.
These days TOWs vs. Russian armor would be common in the Yemen, Iraq/Kurdistan and Syria. In those places you may end up with US vs. US and Russian vs. Russian battles too.
Supposedly the Ukraine is not getting any lethal support from the US, like a TOW, but who knows what might end up on an Antonov.
daddyusmaximus
02-26-16, 22:44
Can't really see the tank well enough to see if it has any reactive armor, but it didn't look like it did. Could be the warhead detonated early. A TOW 2 would have no problem destroying any tank on the battlefield. Could have been an older TOW.
Moose-Knuckle
02-27-16, 02:29
So who exactly was doing the shooting? American tow missiles blowing up Russian tanks doesn't seem like a good equation for larger global conflict to me.
Well Obama and Hilary did create the proxy war to bring down Assad, Gaddafi, and others . . .
Probably out of the back of Eric Holders truck.
Well Obama and Hilary did create the proxy war to bring down Assad, Gaddafi, and others . . .
Probably out of the back of Eric Holders truck.
Well said. Hussein Obama & Co. always help out the most violent and evil Islamists they can find. It's for diversity and stuff.
Stuff like this pisses me off to no end.
How the hell do I find myself cheering for Russian foreign policy moves over those of the USA?? How is this possible?
I wish Putin just goes apeshit on Turkey and their ISIS brethren.
Averageman
02-27-16, 05:47
I was a Tanker.
It looks to me like it came in right in line but slightly above the barrel. I would guess where it detonated, the energy was spread rather than being compressed. Much like a glancing blow on the edge of a ball the energy of that blow was spread across the top of the turret. The ideal shot would have been 18 to 24 inches lower and on the turret ring.
More than likely with a hit like that much of that energy would have escaped, the rest of it would have been directed on to the cannon mount, recoil systems, electronics ,hydraulics and the optics.
Although an impact like that is not an ideal shot, the Tank very well could have sustained massive damage inside the turret and crew casualties due to turret components breaking loose due to the impact.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-27-16, 08:05
So who exactly was doing the shooting? American tow missiles blowing up Russian tanks doesn't seem like a good equation for larger global conflict to me.
How many US Troops were killed by Soviet hardware during the first Cold War? How many Iranian shaped IEDs ended up in Iraq? Remember when we did something about it? Me neither.
Word is that these TOW's are being supplied to the Syrian rebels from Saudi Arabian stocks.
daddyusmaximus
02-27-16, 12:31
Word is that these TOW's are being supplied to the Syrian rebels from Saudi Arabian stocks.
Could be. Wonder where the hell those saudi bass turds got them? This is why I hate seeing ANY American weapons leave our direct control only to end up in the hands of "friendly" musslim nations. (there is no such a thing)
Oh, we sell them LOTS:
http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/kingdom-saudi-arabia-tube-launched-optically-tracked-wire-guided-2a2b-radio
Looks to me like the shooter ducked before impact, and did not steer it onto target
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Can't really see the tank well enough to see if it has any reactive armor, but it didn't look like it did. Could be the warhead detonated early. A TOW 2 would have no problem destroying any tank on the battlefield. Could have been an older TOW.
^^^^ This
Voodoochild
02-27-16, 14:20
Looks like bad shot placement. Bounced off the turret area. Better luck next time.
MountainRaven
02-27-16, 15:19
How many US Troops were killed by Soviet hardware during the first Cold War? How many Iranian shaped IEDs ended up in Iraq? Remember when we did something about it? Me neither.
Oh, hell, in Vietnam, most Americans were being shot by Red Chinese munitions fired from Red Chinese rifles. That didn't stop Nixon from going to Red China in 1972, while Americans were still being killed and would continue to be killed by arms supplied by Red China until the end of summer 1973 - nor did it prevent the Red Chinese from invading Vietnam in 1979 (with the curious result of putting Vietnam in the American/Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese/Australian military-political-commercial counter-Chinese Asia-Pacific coalition). Nevermind Korea, where American GIs were killing and being killed by soldiers of the Chinese People's Liberation Army and American airmen and naval aviators were shooting down and being shot down by pilots of the Soviet Air Force.
Of the arms acquired by the Mujahideen during the Soviet occupation, many of them were given by the US - and many of those acquired by the US were purchased from Red China. Others were bought, IIRC, from Romania and Egypt. The Soviet Union did not go to war with the US. Or China. Or Pakistan (who also supported the Muj). And plenty of arms given to the Taliban by the Pakistanis during the US/NATO occupation of Afghanistan have been used to kill Americans and members of the armed forces of our NATO (and some non-NATO) allies.
And let's not forget that the Reagan began secretly selling arms to the Ayatollah, after their proxy in Lebanon killed 241 US servicemen and 58 French paras.
As a result of all of this, we have not bombed China. We have not bombed Russia or the Soviet Union. We have not bombed Pakistan. We have not bombed Iran. Nor has China or Russia or Syria bombed us.
I'm pretty sure that was a T72 with updated armor and a Syrian crew. T90 has sensors that automatically turn the turret to any abject with a laser pointing at it
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Averageman
02-27-16, 22:16
I'm pretty sure that was a T72 with updated armor and a Syrian crew. T90 has sensors that automatically turn the turret to any abject with a laser pointing at it
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Wow, that could be counter productive.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-28-16, 08:21
Wow, that could be counter productive.
That's what I was thinking. Especially if you have materials around you that would stop the turret from turning. Seems like a way you could spoof the tank turret to turn the way that you want to. I could see a sub for turret with a machine gun turning much more quickly then the main Turret could also and actually being more effective.
Averageman
02-28-16, 12:41
They were in a bad position and left their flanks open, I'm thinking that, that wasn't a Russian Crew; not that it couldn't be, I would just expect better.
Think of a baseball being pitched to you, you swing and because of the shape of the ball and the bat, you hit a foul ball. That in laymen's terms look like what I saw. great shot for deflection, the elevation was 18 to 24 inches high.
Had that round impacted that much lower what you might likely have seen was the turret separate from the hull and a catastrophic explosion when the fuel and ammo went up. That guy who crawled out is very likely never to know just how lucky he was.
I'm pretty sure that was a T72 with updated armor and a Syrian crew. T90 has sensors that automatically turn the turret to any abject with a laser pointing at it
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TOW doesnt use a laser; its optically tracked, wire guided. Think aimpoint (TOW) vs peq15 (Hellfire).
The newer ones coming out of the factory are wireless (using an RF guidance link) and range has been extended out to 4500 meters.
TOW doesnt use a laser; its optically tracked, wire guided. Think aimpoint (TOW) vs peq15 (Hellfire).
As importantly, my understanding is they are not "fire and forget", they normally are steered all the way to contact/detonation.
I can't see the vid here at work, but how sure is it that it's a T-90 even? T-90s and late export T-72s look very similar IIRC....
I was a tanker too.
I would really liked to have seen the impact. To me, it looked like the hit was a glancing blow to the upper part of the turret. Two feet lower and it would have gone into the turret ring (bye-bye tank). I didn't see any active measures deployed on the tank, nor did I have a good enough look to see what model the tank or the TOW was. While it didn't penetrate, it totally rang the bell of the crew, and I suspect the TC was bailing because he was afraid there was about to be a cook-off of their ammo/fuel, etc...
Ive seen T55s and T72s take a little bit for cook-off to start. Not saying that's what happened here but that could of been a catastrophic kill and the video ended too soon.
Whenever our Brads took out the Iraqi tanks with the 25mm they didnt always explode/burn right away like they did when the Abrams blasted them. One of our platoon Sgts popped a tank with the TOW, though I think we had TOW IIs, and if I remember correctly he said it blew the turret off right away.
Averageman
03-01-16, 06:19
Ive seen T55s and T72s take a little bit for cook-off to start. Not saying that's what happened here but that could of been a catastrophic kill and the video ended too soon.
Whenever our Brads took out the Iraqi tanks with the 25mm they didnt always explode/burn right away like they did when the Abrams blasted them. One of our platoon Sgts popped a tank with the TOW, though I think we had TOW IIs, and if I remember correctly he said it blew the turret off right away.
Sabot usually takes a bit of time to cook off the ammo, HEAT give you a distinct explosion that immediately sets off the internal ammo and shows a catastrophic kill.
Averageman
03-01-16, 06:21
I was a tanker too.
I would really liked to have seen the impact. To me, it looked like the hit was a glancing blow to the upper part of the turret. Two feet lower and it would have gone into the turret ring (bye-bye tank). I didn't see any active measures deployed on the tank, nor did I have a good enough look to see what model the tank or the TOW was. While it didn't penetrate, it totally rang the bell of the crew, and I suspect the TC was bailing because he was afraid there was about to be a cook-off of their ammo/fuel, etc...
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