View Full Version : BCG finish
What is the difference between phosphate and Nickle boron BCGs?
Inkslinger
02-27-16, 16:41
I don't know who Nicole Boron is, but I do know this is the wrong section to ask. [emoji6]
Haha gotta love auto correct
Inkslinger
02-27-16, 17:06
Nickel boron has smaller pores, lower friction coefficient, cleans up easier, and is supposed to need less lubricant.
Those finishes are two different animals. They could be lipstick on a turd, or lipstick on a supermodel. I personally would not try to pick a turd.
What are the base parts? Different components may be better with different base parts for their respective coatings. My personal preference is neither of those two options.
Nickel boron has smaller pores, lower friction coefficient, cleans up easier, and is supposed to need less lubricant.
Funny, I heard the same thing about Nicole Boron too.
Inkslinger
02-27-16, 17:55
Funny, I heard the same thing about Nicole Boron too.
Lol! You said it brother...
SomeOtherGuy
02-27-16, 20:00
What is the difference between phosphate and Nickle boron BCGs?
Phosphate is the current and long-time military standard. It's a good finish in terms of making a shiny part dark gray and providing moderate corrosion protection. It doesn't interfere with anything and the process doesn't generally harm the underlying part.
Nickel boron is shiny, hard and smooth. It also doesn't hold oil very well, and the application may slightly change dimensions of the underlying parts.
I have one nickel boron BCG in use and have had others in the past. It's fine, but I think the benefit in slickness is counterbalanced by the lack of oil holding.
More importantly, only a few quality brands of BCG are available in nickel boron - many Ni-B BCGs are of unknown quality. There are lots of quality makers of phosphate BCGs and most sell at low, commodity level prices. In my personal experience with various brands, you can't take simple dimensional accuracy as a given, but it is much more likely to be off if you stray from the 5-6 reputed top brands.
Basically, unless you have a special need for Ni-B, or you lucked into a quality brand one at a good price, I would just buy a quality brand phosphate BCG.
The rails where the carrier contacts the upper will be stripped within a few mags
Stick to whats been working for 50 years
wildcard600
02-27-16, 20:41
The rails where the carrier contacts the upper will be stripped within a few mags
Stick to whats been working for 50 years
Yep. Phosphate works, and works well.
Phosphate is the current and long-time military standard. It's a good finish in terms of making a shiny part dark gray and providing moderate corrosion protection. It doesn't interfere with anything and the process doesn't generally harm the underlying part.
Nickel boron is shiny, hard and smooth. It also doesn't hold oil very well, and the application may slightly change dimensions of the underlying parts.
I have one nickel boron BCG in use and have had others in the past. It's fine, but I think the benefit in slickness is counterbalanced by the lack of oil holding.
More importantly, only a few quality brands of BCG are available in nickel boron - many Ni-B BCGs are of unknown quality. There are lots of quality makers of phosphate BCGs and most sell at low, commodity level prices. In my personal experience with various brands, you can't take simple dimensional accuracy as a given, but it is much more likely to be off if you stray from the 5-6 reputed top brands.
Basically, unless you have a special need for Ni-B, or you lucked into a quality brand one at a good price, I would just buy a quality brand phosphate BCG.
I was looking at palmetto state armory as they have both finishes on sale
The rails where the carrier contacts the upper will be stripped within a few mags
Stick to whats been working for 50 years
Thanks good to know
NiB is a very bad choice for a BCG. A little search of the site will reveal many discussions about NiB. I would take a serious look at NP3. That's the only coating that is worth doing in my opinion.
I was looking at palmetto state armory as they have both finishes on sale
.... and there you go.
Cap'n Crash
02-27-16, 22:50
The bolt in my avatar was a nickel boron bolt from a trusted supplier.
After researching nickel boron bolts on this site, as IG suggests, I found out why mine failed after less than 1500 rounds. And yes, the rifle was maintained properly.
turnburglar
02-27-16, 23:48
I agree that NiB is a bad coating, but what about QPQ? Is that an improvement for any part of the BCG? Cam pin, bolt channel, ect.
The bolt in my avatar was a nickel boron bolt from a trusted supplier.
After researching nickel boron bolts on this site, as IG suggests, I found out why mine failed after less than 1500 rounds. And yes, the rifle was maintained properly.
What supplier, if you don't mind me asking? Give a not-so-subtle hint at least.
I had an NiB BCG, and found that it requires more lube than my phosphate ones. I sold it primarily because of this, and now just have phosphate ones.
Nickel boron is an alloy
Phosphate is a conversion coating or iron, manganese or zinc phosphates.
Nib is very hard and chemical resistant. There have been a lot of bolt with sheared lugs from nib and I would shy away.
Phosphate is a great coating for a bcg. Np3 (electroless nickel impregnated with teflon, unlike Nicole Boron), looks promising, and there have been no complaints that I've seen).
The.number 1 priority is base material. Get a milspec bolt, the coating is probably the least important thing about one, unless it compromises the substrate like nib seems to do.
I learned the hard way how the nickel-born does not hold and lubrication well the other weekend. Running my suppressed SBR and the thing went down due to the bolt becoming dry as a bone. Has never happened to me with a phosphate bolt before.
I have a Nickel Boron BCG that is in a 300 blackout rifle that gets nailed with carbon. 99% of the rifles shooting suppressed and about 50% is reloads that are loaded for plinking. That rifle gets extremely dirty and I can tell you first hand that it is not easier to clean. I would actually say after it gets really gummed up it is harder to clean that a phosphate bcg. Whatever solvent you are using cant really get behind the carbon on the nickel boron so you are forced to work at the caked on carbon from the top.
This is such a problem I switched to one of the Sionics bcg with the NP3 coating and so far with a limited round count of around 500 rounds it is a night and day difference. The carbon does actually wipe off. To early yet to make a definitive call but it looks promising. I would like Sionics to do a youtube video after thousands of rounds to show if it will still just wipe off.
Cap'n Crash
02-28-16, 09:23
What supplier, if you don't mind me asking? Give a not-so-subtle hint at least.
I had an NiB BCG, and found that it requires more lube than my phosphate ones. I sold it primarily because of this, and now just have phosphate ones.
Rainier Arms Thunder Bolt. Customer service replaced it promptly with a phosphate at my request.
No hassles, and they didn't want the broken one back. Now it sits on my desk as a conversation piece.
Rainier Arms Thunder Bolt. Customer service replaced it promptly with a phosphate at my request.
No hassles, and they didn't want the broken one back. Now it sits on my desk as a conversation piece.
Hmm, good to know. At least they stood behind the product.
I am actually using a FailZero NiB bolt in a BCM bolt carrier in one of my ARs, mostly as a test. So far it's worked OK.
When I first got it, I had 100% consistent failures to extract, which was remedied by installing BCM extractor spring. It's been 100% reliable since. I use BCM complete BCGs otherwise, but am keeping the FailZero bolt in 1 AR just to see how it holds up.
Just run a phosphate in spec BCG and IMO there is no need for anything else.
For me its just a matter of not knowing who sells a bolt that is NiB (or any other new coating) that is properly heat treated and will head space on my rifles. If I'm not mistaken the NiB treatment adds thickness so that means the bolt has to be specifically machined for a NiB bolt application. I just don't have issues with the BCG's I run in my rifles that are built by KAC LMT or BCM they are all phosphate and run 100%.
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