View Full Version : 25.0 gr H335 vs. M193
30 cal slut
02-29-16, 08:28
Pic of a 5 shot group of handload at 100 yards.
Nothing groundbreaking here, just posting my results from a range session.
Rifle is zeroed for M193 factory ammo.
This was pretty representative of several 5-shot strings through an Aimptoint T-1. Shot with a 16-inch barrel (BCM carbine length gas system).
5 shots at a time was about what my eyeballs could take at a stretch (no magnification). Getting older sucks.
Shot from the prone, magazine on the deck, with a sandbag under the upper.
Velocity was pretty tame. 2,900-2,950 FPS. M193 clocked in about 100 fps faster. Temps were in the 60-65 F range. (Short sleeve shirt weather at the end of Feb!)
So, I thinking of reducing the COAL a bit, trying Wolf/Tula primers. Any thoughts appreciated.
Goal here is to develop an economical training round similar to M193.
Details:
Brass: LC, trimmed to 1.755 inch
Primer: CCI #41
Powder: 25.0 gr H335
Bullet: .224 dia 55 gr FMJ. M193 projectile courtesy of Wideners.
COAL: 2.245-2.251 inches
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f15/30calslut/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpswi5p23zv.jpeg
Don't mix Tula/Wolf primers with H335. You'll get hang fires. Messing with OAL and FMJ (Tangant) bullets does almost nothing. Just load them to the cannalure or whatever OAL you like best.
25.0 is also my 55 gr FMJ load on the rare occasion that I do use that powder.
30 cal slut
02-29-16, 08:47
Good to know. Thanks Mark!
You might try the Hornady FMJ. I think it's a slightly better made bullet than your typical M193 FMJ. With the setup your using that accuracy isn't too bad. I would also load to the cannalure and stay away from Wolf/Tula primers and that powder. Maybe try a Rem 7.5, they are really flamey.
Every other Small rifle primer I've tried is ok with H335. Wolf is horrible... especially if it's cool out. Yeah.. the hornady fmjs are pretty good.
Every other Small rifle primer I've tried is ok with H335. Wolf is horrible... especially if it's cool out. Yeah.. the hornady fmjs are pretty good.
Dang Mark you need to a tips sticky, this is the kind of info that is really good to know that I will never remember if I decide to load up some H335 loads down the road.
Ha. Thanks. I can remember when I started loading, I just wanted one FMJ load and didn't want anything to do with trying a ton of different combos/components. Now I'm knee deep in tinkering with loads.
Do you get the same horizontal stringing when shooting M193?
30 cal slut
02-29-16, 10:25
No. M193 was solidly grouped in the black.
No. M193 was solidly grouped in the black.
I've experienced horizontal stringing while developing 8mm target loads. The amount of horizontal stringing varied by charge weight.
You could bump the load up to get closer to M193 velocity, and that might bring the group into the black.
30 cal slut
It would also be very helpful to use a much smaller target. The one you used looks to be at least 6" in diameter. Use something like 2"-3". A smaller target will draw your eye in more tightly and reveal any aiming error more readily.
30 cal slut
03-01-16, 12:38
Good points! Thanks all.
californiasushi
03-01-16, 23:42
I also agree to trying out the Hornady 55gr FMJ. I think it's the cheapest quality bullet you can get. Also with regards to to mixing H335 and Wolf/Tula primers, FWIW I've shot thousands of rounds of Hornady 55's over WC844 (I know it's not the same as H335 but it's similar) and Wolf or Tula 223 primers and never had any problem. Here's a five shot group I shot with a 16" DD barrel and Hornady 55 FMJ handloads (26.2gr WC844, LC brass, Wolf 223 primer) with a Burris XTR II 1-5x scope off a bench with a bipod and rear bag:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23305689/16%20DD%2014%20Lite%20Burris%20XTR%202%201-5x.jpg
I've had REALLY good luck with H335 and Hornady 55gr V-Max out of my BCM.
Hornady 55gr V-Max
24.5gr H335
CCI 400 Primers
2.23" COAL
0.252" at 50 yards, out of a 16" Enhanced Lightweight BCM upper, with a Leupold 1.5-4 scope on top.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/IMG_6859_zpsrxsfzvru.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/IMG_6859_zpsrxsfzvru.jpg.html)
The same load at 100 yards. Safe to say the shooter is the weak point at this distance with a 4x scope...
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa100/MotoMax777/IMG_6928_zpsfj8fhlv0.jpg (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/MotoMax777/media/IMG_6928_zpsfj8fhlv0.jpg.html)
I also agree to trying out the Hornady 55gr FMJ. I think it's the cheapest quality bullet you can get. Also with regards to to mixing H335 and Wolf/Tula primers, FWIW I've shot thousands of rounds of Hornady 55's over WC844 (I know it's not the same as H335 but it's similar) and Wolf or Tula 223 primers and never had any problem. Here's a five shot group I shot with a 16" DD barrel and Hornady 55 FMJ handloads (26.2gr WC844, LC brass, Wolf 223 primer) with a Burris XTR II 1-5x scope off a bench with a bipod and rear bag:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23305689/16%20DD%2014%20Lite%20Burris%20XTR%202%201-5x.jpg
A while back I tried H335 and Wolf primers....got many hangfires and out right duds. I pulled the duds apart and the powder was sort of fused together and the deterrent coating was burned off. An iffy combo IMO.
californiasushi
03-02-16, 03:42
A while back I tried H335 and Wolf primers....got many hangfires and out right duds. I pulled the duds apart and the powder was sort of fused together and the deterrent coating was burned off. An iffy combo IMO.
Did you use the standard Wolf/Tula small rifle primer? If so that would explain the issue I think. Their SRM primers are supposed to be better for igniting large amounts of ball/stick powders and their 223 primers are supposed to be even better than that. I've used their 223 primers forever with literally zero malfunctions.
Did you use the standard Wolf/Tula small rifle primer? If so that would explain the issue I think. Their SRM primers are supposed to be better for igniting large amounts of ball/stick powders and their 223 primers are supposed to be even better than that. I've used their 223 primers forever with literally zero malfunctions.
It was the standards. Some people on here have said that the magnums aren't really hotter (I always thought magnums were hotter) but that the cups are thicker.....I don't know what the truth is on this.
I've had REALLY good luck with H335 and Hornady 55gr V-Max out of my BCM.
Those bullets are lasers. We've shot insane groups too. But for the most part, we're all 77 gr any more.
It was the standards. Some people on here have said that the magnums aren't really hotter (I always thought magnums were hotter) but that the cups are thicker.....I don't know what the truth is on this.
Well the primers are definitely NOT hotter. The cup thickness makes more sense, but I've got no way (or desire) to verify this.
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