View Full Version : Firearms instructors' opinions about the CZ-75 SP-01?
I've been tempted lately to get a CZ-75 SP-01 for serious self-defense use, just because I like metal frame pistols and this one could be carried cocked and locked. Also, these pistols are very popular in Europe within IPSC shooters. But I saw a video some months ago done by James Yeager in which he said that the CZ handguns are fragile... I'd like to confirm that by other firearms instructors like Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn etc. I guess that the most important feature of this pistol is its ergonomics, but at the same time these pistols may lack some durability and reliability when compared to some other DA/SA pistols, like Berettas and SIGs? Any input guys?
Mrgunsngear
02-29-16, 10:15
Oh I'm going to go start the popcorn.... :blink:
They break barrel pin (slide stop pin) and trigger return spring. But both cases come from volume shooting, so unless you shoot it a lot or use constant diet of +P or +P+ I do not know of them being "fragile". And lot of people use them here. If I would look for full-metal carry for SD I would take it over SIG every time.
BTW And actually I'm certified Firearms Instructor recognized by Polish Ministry of Education ;)
Montrala pretty much summed it up.. For what it's worth both HK,and Beretta are known for breaking trigger return springs, the easiest thing to do is to keep spares around. In the case of the CZ, I'd install a Cajun gun works floating trigger pin, and throw away the stock trigger pin. The cgw pin is designed to be easily removed to replace a broken TRS, I'd also install a cgw TRS while I was at it, these last a lot longer than the stock TRS. That and pick up a spare slide stop and you should be good to go..
OK, I'm not a firearms instructor and I only own 1 CZ 75 that I have put at least 20,000 rounds [probably more] through based on my bullet orders and primer usage during that time. It was my primary competition pistol for several years. A '91 pre-B 75, I wore out a sear, lots of recoil springs, a few mag followers, mag springs, extractor springs and some magazines. I bought a replacement slide stop but have yet to use it. I went through a one day Super Dave class with it [1000 rounds] then took it to a match right afterward with no cleaning or lube and zero failures.
For what it's worth...
I know lots of guys with CZ pistols, they are very popular in Israel. They are great pistols, do parts wear out, yep but they wear out on all pistols if you shoot a lot.
Next pistol purchase for me is going to be a CZ P09.
... I'd like to confirm that by other firearms instructors like Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn etc. ?
There is a dedicated subforum where you can ask Mr. Vickers directly. Also, Mike Pannone is a big proponent of the CZ pistols, you may want to address him in his own subforum. You may get your answer quicker.
teutonicpolymer
02-29-16, 12:54
There is a very active CZ subforum on brianenos' website and the common opinion is what has been said, the slide stop and trigger return spring are replacement parts to have. Luckily they are commonly available and are not that expensive.
I could be wrong, but thought the slide stop breakage was from competition shooters using underpowered springs.
At any rate, for how cheap they are, you can replace them at intervals. Czs are great, if I wanted a da/sa I'd shoot one (moved from cz to striker). If your a trigger fanatic, you can replace the stock one with a SAO czcustom trigger and get a competition hammer for an awesome trigger.
They are reliable, accurate and support equiptment is easy to find. I also find the recoil characteristics very easy to get good with. The small slide feels odd at first but becomes a non issue with little practice, and control layout is perfect imo.
Don't listen to James yeager, dude has wrong opinions on many things.
teutonicpolymer
02-29-16, 13:35
I could be wrong, but thought the slide stop breakage was from competition shooters using underpowered springs.
At any rate, for how cheap they are, you can replace them at intervals. Czs are great, if I wanted a da/sa I'd shoot one (moved from cz to striker). If your a trigger fanatic, you can replace the stock one with a SAO czcustom trigger and get a competition hammer for an awesome trigger.
They are reliable, accurate and support equiptment is easy to find. I also find the recoil characteristics very easy to get good with. The small slide feels odd at first but becomes a non issue with little practice, and control layout is perfect imo.
Don't listen to James yeager, dude has wrong opinions on many things.
From what I understand it is a design defect in that the slide stop gets battered during recoil. Using light springs would probably make it worse but they also aren't running subgun 9mm in those guns, they run light loads.
CGW makes a bunch of parts for CZ stuff in addition to CZC
Oh, I thought they ran hot loads to work the compensators.
Either way, I agree, not the best design, but easily worked around.
legumeofterror
02-29-16, 17:16
I have a full size CZ75B with over 15 thousand rounds though is and a Compact approaching two thousand. The full size needed a new recoil spring, but the slide stop and trigger return spring remain intact somehow...
It should also be noted that the slide stop is stressed when the slide returns to battery, not on recoil.
Good seeing people making comment on the design without understanding how it works.
teutonicpolymer
02-29-16, 17:58
There does not seem to be a consensus on when it occurs. The theory I've read is that the barrel during recoil slams into the slide stop but I'll default to the Internet experts...
legumeofterror
02-29-16, 18:49
Well, let us think about it, shall we?
How do you disassemble the gun? You remove the slide stop. That allows the slide to move forward and off the gun. When the slide stop is in place, the slide will not move off the gun. Neat.
The distance the slide travels to the rear is the same if the slide stop is present or not. Awesome.
The frame absorbs the recoil when the slide move completely to the rear, the slide stop absorbs the force when the slide returns to battery. Super cool.
Certainly there is load applied to the slide stop as the barrel cams about it, but I would be very much surprised if that load is anywhere close to what is applied when the slide returns to battery.
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-29-16, 19:03
I took a pistol class years ago with Larry and he said that CZs had a lot of problems. That being said, he wasn't super positive about Glocks but clearly his opinion has changed on that gun. That being said, I love my SP-01.
teutonicpolymer
02-29-16, 19:09
Well, let us think about it, shall we?
How do you disassemble the gun? You remove the slide stop. That allows the slide to move forward and off the gun. When the slide stop is in place, the slide will not move off the gun. Neat.
The distance the slide travels to the rear is the same if the slide stop is present or not. Awesome.
The frame absorbs the recoil when the slide move completely to the rear, the slide stop absorbs the force when the slide returns to battery. Super cool.
Certainly there is load applied to the slide stop as the barrel cams about it, but I would be very much surprised if that load is anywhere close to what is applied when the slide returns to battery.
By that logic all guns that use a slide stop should break slide stops since they prevent forward movement of the slide and we don't hear about 1911's breaking slide stops.
What people think happens is the barrel rams the slide stop when it is recoiling with the slide. Likewise, apparently with some of the cz's like the checkmate the barrels supposedly can break instead.
By that logic all guns that use a slide stop should break slide stops since they prevent forward movement of the slide and we don't hear about 1911's breaking slide stops...
They usually break barrel links instead.
teutonicpolymer
02-29-16, 22:47
They usually break barrel links instead.
From what I remember that happens predominantly with incorrectly timed 1911s. I've not heard of proper 1911s going through new barrel links every 3k-5k rounds like CZ-s appear to do with slide stops.
legumeofterror
02-29-16, 22:54
Believe it or not, 1911s have slide stops break as well, though usually the barrel link or the link pin fail as mentioned above.
CZs do not go though slide stops every 3K rounds. That is a gross exaggeration.
zen_grasshopper
03-01-16, 02:31
CZ's run just fine, I shoot an SP-01 Shadow in USPSA. I put 20k through it a year, and I clean it 2-3 times a year. Blast it with brake cleaner, brush out the big stuff and oil it back up and run the heck out of it. This is after her Christmas cleaning and another 5k through the gun, plus a crazy amount of dry fire. Haven't broken a trigger return spring or slide stop yet.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23236249/Dirty%20girl.jpg
That said, it is a heavy gun and I wouldn't want to carry it all day. Luckily they have the P-09 and P-07 for me to carry instead.
Jon
Unabashed CZ whore
From what I understand it is a design defect in that the slide stop gets battered during recoil.
Problem is more pronounced in "major factor" pistols - .40SW and 9mm "major" (in Open class). But not unheard of in 9mm. Slide stop pin is guide and bearing surface for barrel locking and unlocking. As this is link-less design it takes all force of barrel recoil and also can not rotate to reduce drag. One of solutions used in competition is to resign from slide stop and install free floating (rotating) pin.
BTW HK trigger return springs (light and match type) are known to break after DIY installation that included forcing them in place. But what can happen is HK is broken 2-finger sear leaf spring. When sear spring is broken trigger system works in DA instead of SA (so pistol is still serviceable). Interesting that it does not shoot in DA all the time - when under recoil sear catches on hammer most of the time. I met guy on the range, that had this problem in his P2000SK. After trigger job gunsmith did not install sear spring at all. He had DA on first shot (after manually racking) and then every like 5 or 6 shots. Guy was completely puzzled. :)
Ipsilateral_7
03-01-16, 07:28
Just FYI. Neither of my 2 sp01 like light charge 115 grn production ammo.
Otherwise nice guns. I had one sent to CGW and concerted to SAO.
Most European service pistols are optimized for 124gr 9mm NATO loads and do not like light 115gr loads untill recoil spring is lighter or well broken in. For CZ you can get factory lighter recoil spring specifically for purpose of shooting light, competition loads.
BTW CZ Shadow 2 looks promising. I hope to see it up close at IWA this week.
I have a full size CZ75B with over 15 thousand rounds though is and a Compact approaching two thousand. The full size needed a new recoil spring, but the slide stop and trigger return spring remain intact somehow...
It should also be noted that the slide stop is stressed when the slide returns to battery, not on recoil.
Good seeing people making comment on the design without understanding how it works.
If that was directed at me, I was asking questions framed around what I've read about the design. Mine had no issues, but if they break, you don't have to understand root cause to know something is not optimal. Is it from the design, maybe not, but it seems like it based on reports, although I'll admit there may be the outside influences I don't know about.
I'd like to confirm that by other firearms instructors like Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn etc.
John "Shrek" McPhee, the Sheriff of Baghdad, former Unit SGM loves CZs. Both old school 75 models and the newer P series.
A friend of mine yesterday in Israel killed one of 2 terrorist that had attempted to murder a family where he lives. His pistol is a CZ 75 and at a distance of 10 meters delivered a pair of head shots dropping the terrorist.
When he called and we talked I remembered this thread and told him some so called instructors in the USA have said bad things about CZ. He replied is the CZ the only pistol that could have given me such great results, no of course not. But it allowed me under a lot of stress to give 2 shots to the head and save me from a lot of pain or worse. So I am keeping my CZ.
whittlebeast
03-02-16, 05:58
My target pistol is a EAA Witness Match. By design, it is very similar to a CZ-75. It is by far, my favorite pistol. It just feels right. I practice at 15 yards and typically hold 4" circles and on a good day can hold 10 shots in a 2 inch circle.
I can run 16 rounds in about 3.5 sec with the gun. A good trigger and a well designed slide is everything for making a great shooting gun.
Hope this helps.
Andy
A friend of mine yesterday in Israel killed one of 2 terrorist that had attempted to murder a family where he lives. His pistol is a CZ 75 and at a distance of 10 meters delivered a pair of head shots dropping the terrorist.
When he called and we talked I remembered this thread and told him some so called instructors in the USA have said bad things about CZ. He replied is the CZ the only pistol that could have given me such great results, no of course not. But it allowed me under a lot of stress to give 2 shots to the head and save me from a lot of pain or worse. So I am keeping my CZ.
Sir,
Do Israeli forces use the Jericho pistol, a close cousin of the CZ 75?
My target pistol is a EAA Witness Match. By design, it is very similar to a CZ-75.
Do Israeli forces use the Jericho pistol, a close cousin of the CZ 75?
Those pistols (and Swiss Sphinx plus some other less known) are clones (or copies if you will - for eg lot of part from CZ interchange with Tangoglio/EEA or Sphinx). When CZ-75 was developed Eastern Block countries did not seek patent protection of their IP in the West, so CZ did have any legal protection from. On the other hand this helped this design to become very popular and now, after fall of communism CZ can also cash on that.
Police use the Jericho. Special units use Glocks.
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